Better Sign Shop Podcast

Hosted by Peter Kourounis, Michael Riley, and Bryant Gillespie

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May 2026

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About the show

Learn how to build a better sign and print shop from a few crusty sign guys who've made more mistakes than they care to admit. Conversations and advice on sales, marketing, pricing, growth, and more. Co-hosted by Peter Kourounis, Michael Riley, and Bryant Gillespie.

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37 recent

May 13, 2026Episode 371 hr 49 min

Evolve Or Die // Rick McDonough of Typestries

Rick McDonough of Typestries (Long Beach Island, NJ) joins Bryant and Michael for a long-overdue conversation about three decades in the sign business. Rick walks through the unlikely path from a lifeguarding magazine to a college dorm sign shop, the wholesale boom that nearly broke him, and the EFI walk-out moment that made him scrap the contract and rebuild the company around work he actually wanted to do. They get into why AI has Rick more energized than he's been in years, from the food truck cop who designed his entire wrap in ChatGPT, to the Claude-built inventory system that finally solved his missing-bin problem, to the $15K monument signs AI is now pre-selling before the client walks in the door. Plus: why "no ugly signs" is a business strategy, why presentation quality wins bids even when your design is worse, and the workforce cliff that should terrify every shop owner.In this episode:Rick's accidental path into signs (lifeguarding magazine, yearbook, first sandblasted wood sign)The "sald" menu disaster and why proofing is sacredStarting up in 1996 next to a cocaine distribution ringThree decades of equipment chases: Gerber Edge, the In CAD conversion fiasco, Gandy Innovations going bust overnightWalking out on a million-dollar EFI contract when he saw Four Over's order on the floorWhy he intentionally scaled the business down to four peopleThe wholesale vs. retail trap and how to outsource the right wayBurnout, almost selling, and the headmaster who talked him out of itThe food truck cop who changed Rick's mind on AIAI slop vs. good promptingUsing AI to pre-sell $15K signs before the client walks inWhen AI becomes a problem: the 5-vehicle wrap committeeWhat AI can't do: shop drawings, codes, wind load, soil conditionsThe lawn care guy to $3,500 truck wrap pipelineBuilding a Claude-powered inventory system for the shopWhy presentation wins bids (even when the design is worse)"No ugly signs" and why the industry shoots itself in the footSpeaking the language of 20-something entrepreneurs when you're 52Why your sign shop website matters more than everThe coming workforce cliff and the overseas outsourcing questionRick's pitch for getting young people into the tradeChapters:01:30 Introducing Rick and a 20-year Facebook friendship03:30 From lifeguarding magazine to first sandblasted wood sign07:00 The "sald" disaster and the gospel of proofing10:30 Starting up next to a cocaine distribution ring12:00 Gerber Edge, NYC film & TV, and the start of wholesale14:30 In CAD conversions and Gandy Innovations going bust overnight17:00 Walking out on the EFI contract19:00 Right-sizing on purpose: today's four-person shop22:00 Outsourcing the right way and the referral economy27:30 Wholesale burnout and missing the local work30:30 Almost selling: the headmaster who talked him out of it33:00 Making the work fun again36:00 The food truck cop and Rick's AI conversion moment42:00 AI slop vs. good prompting44:00 How AI is pre-selling $15K signs47:00 When AI becomes a problem: the 5-vehicle wrap committee51:00 What AI can't do: shop drawings, codes, wind load58:00 The lawn care guy to $3,500 wrap pipeline1:06:00 Claude-built inventory and shop operations1:11:00 Why presentation wins bids1:18:00 "No ugly signs" and the industry's self-inflicted wounds1:21:00 Using AI to connect with younger entrepreneurs1:25:00 Why your website matters more than ever1:33:00 The coming workforce cliff1:39:00 China factories and overseas outsourcing1:43:00 Rick's pitch for getting young people into signsResources & links:Typestries: https://typestries.comSign A Day (Rick's photo blog): https://signaday.comGCI Digital (TJ's wholesale shop): https://gcidigital.comShopVox: https://shopvox.comFireSprint: https://firesprint.comSigns 365: https://signs365.comChatGPT: https://chatgpt.comClaude: https://claude.ai

March 30, 2026Episode 361 hr 8 min

Burnout, Boundaries & Big News

Bryant and Michael are back after over a year away from the mic. They catch up on life — Mike's transition to full-time caretaker for his mom, Bryant's work at Directus, and their shared obsession with AI.They answer listener questions about energy and reinvention as a small business owner, share spicy takes on why "we treat our employees like family" is a red flag, and tease a new software project for the sign industry. Plus: why your sign shop website matters more than ever in the age of AI.In this episode:Catching up after a year awayMike's journey as a full-time caretakerRestarting the podcast and newsletterTeasing a new software project for sign shopsListener Q&A: How to keep your energy upBurnout, passion, and delegationWhy your website matters more than ever (AI and SEO)Spicy take: Stop treating employees like family

July 7, 2025Episode 351 hr 22 min

Why 90% of Sign Shop Ads Fail (Ex-Googler Explains)

Peter Guba spent 8 years working inside Google with over 1,000 different accounts before starting his own paid ads agency, Profit Mill. In this episode, he reveals why most sign shops are burning money on Google Ads and shares the simple strategy that actually works.##-##Key Points Discussed:Why Google Ads fail: The real reasons 90% of sign shop advertising campaigns don't work (and it's not what you think)The $500 test: How to start Google Ads the right way without betting the farmUnit economics breakdown: The math every sign shop owner needs to know before spending a dollar on adsLocal vs. product ads: Which Google ad types actually work for sign shopsThe attribution problem: How to track if your ads are actually generating salesWebsite optimization: Why your Google Ads success depends more on what happens AFTER the clickClosing the loop: The simple question every sign shop should ask every customer##-##Links:Profit Mill: https://profitmill.io##-##Timestamps:00:00 - Intro01:27 - Why Peter left Google after 8 years04:40 - The agency problem: Why 90% don't deliver09:12 - When sign shops should (and shouldn't) use Google Ads13:55 - The only ad strategy sign shops actually need22:12 - Local campaigns vs. search ads28:07 - Biggest mistakes sign shops make31:12 - Budget recommendations and unit economics38:18 - Tracking results and attribution43:20 - Website optimization for ad traffic52:30 - How to avoid getting burned by agencies57:05 - The future of Google Ads for sign shops##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner? Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

March 25, 2025Episode 341 hr 34 min

The Rapid Evolution of AI Tools: AI Part 2

In this episode, Bryant and Mike continue their deep dive into the ever-evolving world of AI, building on the discussion from the previous episode. They explore the rapid growth of AI models, highlighting both their incredible benefits and the challenges they pose within the sign industry.Beyond discussing the impact of AI, Bryant and Mike showcase some of their favorite AI-powered tools that they use daily, offering insights into how these innovations are reshaping workflows and creativity.Tune in for an engaging and thought-provoking conversation as we navigate the fast-paced changes AI is bringing to our world—and what the future might hold!##-##In this episode...00:00 Intro00:32 "AI" Models Rapid Growth07:48 Tools We Use 12:23 TypingMind18:53 AI for SEO25:43 Tools for Text Generation36:27 Current AI Situation 47:20 "AI" in Everyday life53:35 Deepseek58:00 "AI" Thinks01:00:25 Directus01:02:25 Replicate01:08:00 NotebookLM01:12:00 Clay01:14:15 Perplexity01:17:50 Loveable01:21:45 Replit01:28:50 Takeaways01:34:04 Outro##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner?Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

March 17, 2025Episode 331 hr 7 min

The "Ominous" AI Episode: AI Part 1

In this episode, Bryant and Michael take a deep dive into how AI is reshaping the sign and design industry. They explore its growing impact on the creative process, discussing whether AI is a helpful tool for designers or a force that could potentially harm the industry as a whole.From automating routine tasks to enabling innovative design solutions, AI offers exciting possibilities, but it also raises critical questions about originality, ethics, and the future role of human designers. To bring theory into practice, Bryant and Michael put one of Michael’s banner designs to the test, leveraging AI tools to see how they measure up against traditional methods.Join the conversation as they weigh the pros and cons of AI, debate its long-term implications, and consider how designers can adapt to thrive in an increasingly AI-driven landscape.##-##In this episode...00:00 Intro00:32 Catching Up08:05 Last year's learnings12:25 Creative but uninterested in the business side15:11 The Ominous AI16:25 Takes on AI21:00 AI on a daily basis25:40 AI Impact on Creativity36:18 Dangers of AI39:29 Dangers for Designers 42:20 Shift of designers 46:00 Using Claud to replicate Mike's design51:40 Tool For Creativity01:00:39 AI for younger generation01:05:03 Takeaways 01:07:00 Outro##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner?Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

January 14, 2025Episode 3254 min

The 10 Sign Shop Commandments - Part 2

In this engaging podcast Series, Peter shares his 10 Sign Shop Commandments—a comprehensive set of principles designed to drive your sign shop's financial success. These commandments aren’t just generic advice; they are presented in a unique percentage-based format, offering clear and actionable insights to help you stabilize, optimize, and elevate your business operations.Bryant and Peter delve deep into each commandment, unpacking the strategies and steps necessary for implementation. They discuss how these rules can fix sign shop owners' challenges and difficulties. Whether you're just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, these ten commandments serve as your roadmap to success.##-##In this episode...00:00 Intro.00:50 Sign Shop Yoda.04:40 Recap of first five commandments.06:44 Advertising Budget Query 11:17 6th Commandment: Total Payroll 21:36 7th Commandment: Average Payroll26:08 8th Commandment: Lead Conversion33:37 9th Commandment: Hourly Rate44:39 10th Commandment: Quote to Sales Order53:58 Outro##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner?Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

December 30, 2024Episode 3158 min

The 10 Sign Shop Commandments - Part 1

In this engaging podcast Series, Peter shares his 10 Sign Shop Commandments—a comprehensive set of principles designed to drive your sign shop's financial success. These commandments aren’t just generic advice; they are presented in a unique percentage-based format, offering clear and actionable insights to help you stabilize, optimize, and elevate your business operations.Bryant and Peter dive deep into each commandment, unpacking the strategies and steps necessary for implementation. They discuss how these rules can fix sign shop owners' challenges and difficulties. Whether you're just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, these ten commandments serve as your roadmap to success.##-##In this episode...00:00 Intro00:32 Catching Up06:20 Year-end and sign-shop09:05 10 Sign Shop commandments11:40 1st Commandment: Gross Profit Margins15:09 2nd Commandment: Direct labor percentage18:13 3rd Commandment: Material cost26:10 4th Commandment: Operating expenses32:35 5th Commandment: Advertising budget42:20 Jason’s Question on Marketing Vendor46:23 Ride the wave (ridethewave.info)48:18 For Introverts53:33 Social Sponge (socialsponge.biz)57:03 Recap58:32 Outro##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner?Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

November 12, 2024Episode 3021 min

Shop Software Spotlight

Sign Up For Shop Software Spotlighthttps://lu.ma/shop-software-spotlightIn this quick announcement episode, Bryant catches up with listeners after a brief hiatus and shares three exciting updates from the Better Sign Shop team.Key Announcements:- Podcast Update: The team is back after taking time to focus on work and family, with new episodes and guests lined up- Shop Software Spotlight Series: A comprehensive demo program featuring seven major sign shop management software vendors including Ordant, SignTracker, Onyx Align, SquareCoil, InkSoft, InkWorks, and CoreBridge- New Website Product: Preview of an upcoming website and marketing platform specifically built for sign shopsThe Shop Software Spotlight series runs from November 14th through December 10th, featuring guided demonstrations and Q&A sessions with each vendor. Free registration available at lu.ma/shop-software-spotlight.In this episode...00:00 Intro & Welcome Back01:15 Team Update03:15 Shop Software Spotlight Announcement13:30 Demo Series Schedule18:15 New Website Product Preview20:45 ClosingAre you a sign shop owner interested in being featured on the podcast or joining the website platform beta? Email hey@bettersignshop.com. For software vendors interested in participating in the spotlight series, reach out to hey@bettersignshop.com.Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

April 30, 2024Episode 291 hr 23 min

Carving a Niche // Jim Dawson of Synergy Sign & Graphics

Jim Dawson owns Synergy Sign & Graphics in Strasburg, OH. From humble beginnings in his basement 20 years ago, he has built a business that thrives on challenges and innovation. In this podcast, he shares his experiences with creative architectural signage.##-##This episode is sponsored by:GCI Digital Imaging Your partner for large/grand format trade printing. Known for exceptional customer service, GCI Digital Imaging is the go-to for banners, coroplast signs, vehicle wraps, and other digitally printed graphics. Discover more in Episode #9 or visit https://gci-digital.com.Jaco Wholesale Sign ProductsLooking to enhance your clients' impact and boost your profits with flat-cut acrylic letters and logos? Jaco Wholesale Sign Products delivers laser-cut acrylic letters and signage with quick turnaround times and excellent communication. They offer a wide range of mounting options, Pantone matching, several acrylic thicknesses, and nationwide shipping. Visit https://sign.supply/bss/ for a quote and $50 off your first order.##-##Links:Dan Sawatzky Episode: https://youtu.be/QHOBWzf-5QYSynergy Signs Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/synergy_signs/##-##Key Points Discussed:- Business and Personal life: Jim shares his business and personal life and how he and his wife manage it all together.- Jim's Journey: Jim shares his journey and how he ended up with signage from an animator and cabinet shop. -Architecture Projects: Jim shares with us his amazing architecture Projects and shows us the workflow of working with architecture Projects.-Client Expectation: We dive deep into this conversation, discussing the importance of knowing and fulfilling clients' expectations and how to let clients know what we expect from them.- Pricing Methods: Jim discusses his pricing method and how he decides or adjusts his pricing and profit margins.- Changes in the industry: We discuss the positive and negative aspects of the industry's changes and how they will affect the market and the future of signage. -Jim's Workshop: Jim talks about his workshop, which they conduct a few times per year. Y http://www.synergysign.com/sign-alchemy-workshops/-Sign Shop School: Jim and Peter discuss their future plan to open a sign shop school and give back to the industry.##-##In this episode...00:00 Intro00:38 Sponsor01:27 Catching Up04:40 Winning a Lottery09:12 About Jim10:25 Working with Wife13:55 From Animator to cabinet shop to signage19:12 The Progression.22:12 Storefront walk-in traffic28:07 Inflection Point 31:12 Jim’s architecture projects 33:12 Fulfilling Client Expectations36:25 90-day Terms38:18 Equipments43:20 Fire Prevention46:02 Workflow with architecture Projects.52:30 Pricing Method57:05 Changes in the Industry01:02:42 Jim’s Workshop01:12:12 Sign Shop School##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner?Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.Interested in being a guest on the show or have questions for our team? Reach out to us at hey@bettersignshop.com.

April 19, 2024Episode 281 hr 46 min

Chill The F$&k Out // Dan Yoder of Sign Art Studio

In this episode, we're joined by Dan Yoder - the owner of Sign Art Studio, a killer sign shop with 30 people near Madison, Wisconsin. Dan has been in the industry since 2005 and gives us valuable insights on various topics such as the business and art side of the industry, the importance of systems and processes, hiring and managing employees, and more.##-##This episode is sponsored by:GCI Digital Imaging - Your partner for large/grand format trade printing. Known for their exceptional customer service, GCI Digital Imaging is the go-to for banners, coroplast signs, vehicle wraps, and other digitally printed graphics. Discover more in Episode #9 or visit https://gci-digital.com.##-##Key Points Discussed:- Dan's Origin Story: Dan has always been interested in art and fell in love with this craft early in his life. Making mistakes, learning from them, and growing forward continuously. He started his own business in 2005 and now has a team of about 30.- Team Management: Dan discusses Sign Art Studio, how he started the business, and how he tackled all of its problems. He tells us the structure of his team and how it works. He also shares the importance of Teamwork and how he manages his team to gain efficiency.- Hiring Question: Dan answered one of the most asked questions about hiring. He shares his thoughts on hiring somebody with no experience or someone with some signage experience.- Business and Art: We dive deep into this discussion where we all share our thoughts on the "Business" and "Art" side of the industry, which one has more importance, and how both can be managed.- Processes and Systems: We discuss processes and systems, layers of processes, flexibility with systems, having processes to set or change processes, and much more. Dan shares the Sign Art Studios' way of working and how they have set up their workflow.- Right Type of Clients: Working with the right type of clients is a different experience, as it is much more collaborative and engaging and brings out the best in everyone. Dan gives solid advice to shop owners on finding the right type of clients and shares how they qualify and classify their clients. - Dan's Podcast: Dan does his own Podcast, which you must listen to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41OxFQbSPo##-##In this episode...00:00 Intro00:38 Sponsor02:28 Welcoming Dan05:30 Dan’s Journey09:55 Sign Art Studio16:50 Team management and working21:30 Hiring People25:30 Last 10-20 years of the industry32:20 Process of onboarding a new employee 36:00 Business and art47:40 Focus on Entrepreneurial Operating Systems55:25 Motive 01:04:30 Processes and System 01:26:30 Future for Dan01:29:05 Working with the right type of client01:35:30 Dan’s Podcast01:41:50 Rapid fire takeaways01:46:20 Outro##-##Are you a sign or print shop owner?Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.