Better Bolder Braver

Hosted by Frances Fogel, Cheerleader-in-Chief

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106

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Aug 2026

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About the show

Conversations around marketing for coaches that empowers them to attract Better clients, build a Bolder offer and be Braver with prices, planning and purpose.

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August 11, 202648 min

Breaking Up With Social Media, with Seth Werkheiser

Seth Werkheiser is a writer, musician, a "wizardly guide to platform independence" and the founder of the Social Media Escape Club . I met Seth for the very first time whilst creating this episode! We talk about escaping social media without a rigid detox plan, why a newsletter beats a feed, the "work-work balance" almost nobody admits to, and why community - not content - might be the actual antidote to burnout. We also cover: Seth's path from third-generation musician to music blogger (2001) to AOL Music editor to email marketer for record labels and a music publicist - and how that same "help creative people get seen" mission has never really changed The birth of Social Media Escape Club - starting life in 2021 as Heavy Metal Email, aimed at getting heavy metal bands back on email lists, before Seth realised the message applied to artists, photographers and designers of every kind Why Seth isn't anti-internet or even anti-social-media, but anti the time, attention and life energy we hand over to platforms that "don't give a crap about us" Vanity metrics and the seven-thousand-versus-seventy-thousand conversation - why Seth would rather have two people reply to a newsletter than twenty people like a post The difference between Substack and social media, and why Seth doesn't rely on "likes" as a sign anyone's listening (they're probably reading it on the loo, and that's fine) Meeting people at the right level of the Journey of Consciousness - why "escape" and "break up" are strong, problem-aware words for people who don't yet know there's another way, even though Seth's actual approach once you arrive is gentle, non-prescriptive and led by the group The "Work/Work balance" - Seth still works in email marketing for record labels and does admin for a music publicist alongside running Social Media Escape Club, and why having more than one income stream is normal, not a failure, for almost everyone doing meaningful work Community as the antidote to isolation - why so much of Seth's best work (a music blog, a metal trivia newsletter, weekly Zoom calls) has never been a solo endeavour Boundaries, energy and privilege - both Seth and Frances talk candidly about the time, money and confidence it takes to build a sustainable creative business, and why "how's business going?" rarely has one simple answer The story of Seth's bike trip out of Brooklyn - working remotely for AOL Music from the road for eight months, and what it taught him about diving in rather than waiting for the perfect framework Keeping in touch with people you love without relying on platforms you don't own - a practical nudge to keep a simple backup list of phone numbers and email addresses, just in case About Social Media Escape Club Social Media Escape Club is a membership community where creative and artistic people gather for weekly (sometimes three or four times a week) themed Zoom calls and virtual co-working sessions. There's no guru, no fixed programme and no detox plan - just a space for people to talk honestly about what's working, what isn't, and how to be seen without burning out. Connect with Seth via his website: socialmediaescape.club . He deliberately keeps no social media profiles - the website is the one place to find him. Mentioned in this episode Social Media Escape Club (formerly Heavy Metal Email) Substack Seth's Blog by Seth Godin The BBB Reflection & Confidence weekly space Membership of the Better Bolder Braver community includes the Coach's Marketing Journey course - the only dual-accredited course (AC, up to 32 CPD hours; ICF, 10 CCE hours) dedicated to ethical marketing for life and executive coaches - plus bi-weekly check-in sessions, the weekly Reflection & Confidence space, 50+ Tools & Techniques recordings, the Book Club and a warm crowd of fellow people-helpers. Find everything at betterbolderbraver.com

July 22, 202644 min

Marketing, MUD and the Power of Community with Simon Hill

In this episode, I get to profile one fabulous member of the Better Bolder Braver community, Simon Hill. Simon is a coach, facilitator and consultant who works with people-helpers of a particular kind - leaders in charities and social purpose organisations - and he's been part of our community for two years now, most recently taking the reins as chair of our book club. We talk about what actually happens in a community like ours - how the thinking and feelings associated with marketing are slowly absorbed (after the eleventh time, or in Simon's case, the fifteenth), and how marketing starts to feel more human and less daunting. We cover the five P's of Positioning, the power of kindness at work, why good contracting is quietly brilliant marketing, and Simon's beloved concept of entering every conversation without Memory, Understanding or Desire - or as he calls it, “MUD”. There's humour, there's parenting, there's talk of doodling, and there's a couple of very good book recommendations. What we talk about Simon's journey from Head of Partnerships at Skills Builder to coaching, facilitating and consultancy - and the burnout, family caring and life changes that shaped it Why coaching is a partnership, and why the word "together" matters so much to Simon The diversity of the BBB community, and why high support plus high challenge beats being cuddled The five P's - Persona, Personality, Product, Price and Purpose - and why Simon is a "persona plus purpose" person Learning differently: dyslexia, visual thinking, and why BBB resources come in watch, read, listen and do formats MUD - entering conversations without Memory, Understanding or Desire (with thanks to Clare Norman's Cultivating Coachability ) Why good contracting - outcomes, roles, responsibilities and process - is quietly brilliant marketing Simon's very human "coffee networking" approach Humour, play, parenting, doodles and King Lear's fool About the Book Club Simon is now chairing the BBB Book Club, where we read books that speak to both coaching and marketing. Next up: Kind: The quiet power of kindness at work by Graham Allcott - eight principles of kindness, starting with "it starts with you" and ending with "it doesn't end with you." Connect with Simon Website: thinkpositivechange.scjh.uk LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/simoncjhill If you're a leader or manager in a charity or social purpose organisation and Simon sounds like your kind of person, LinkedIn is a great place to start. Mentioned in this episode Kind: The quiet power of kindness at work by Graham Allcott Productivity Ninja by Graham Allcott Cultivating Coachability by Clare Norman The BBB Reflection & Confidence weekly space The BBB Book Club Explore Better Bolder Braver Membership of the Better Bolder Braver community includes the Coach's Marketing Journey course - the only dual-accredited course (AC, up to 32 CPD hours; ICF, 10 CCE

June 4, 202637 min

Asking Powerful Questions: The Marketing Superpower Coaches Already Have with Rob Lawrence

What if your best marketing move wasn't saying more - but asking better questions? In this episode, I'm joined by Rob Lawrence: seasoned podcast producer, experienced coach, and - I'll be honest - one of my marketing heroes. Rob is also, rather wonderfully, the reason Better Bolder Braver exists at all. It was his generosity in inviting me onto the Association for Coaching podcast that kicked the whole thing off. Together we explore one of the most liberating ideas in good, ethical marketing: that coaches are already equipped with one of the most powerful marketing tools there is. They just might not have recognised it yet. What we talk about Why asking questions often generates more engagement than sharing expertise - on LinkedIn, in podcasts, and in life How "holding the space" in marketing creates the same trust and intimacy as a coaching relationship The connection between self-awareness in coaching and self-awareness in marketing Why you don't need to say something new every week - and why saying the same five things, creatively, is actually the goal How questions can move your ideal clients through the Journey of Consciousness - from "I didn't know I had a problem" to "I'm ready to work with you" The difference between posting publicly and taking conversations offline - and why Rob's quieter LinkedIn strategy works beautifully Rob's 10-year weekly mastermind with his Australian counterpart Steve Palfreyman - and why he calls it his single biggest business secret How to translate your best coaching questions directly into your marketing Mentioned in this episode The original Association for Coaching x BBB podcast My weekly Reflection & Confidence space in the BBB community The Journey of Consciousness framework Join Rob live Rob has hosted two workshops for BBB members - about "Podcasting for Coaches" and, most recently about "How to Use Brilliant Coaching Questions to do Good Ethical Marketing" - to accompany this podcast episode. To access the recording, become a BBB member .

May 9, 202649 min

What It Takes to Build a Sustainable Coaching Practice: On Marketing and Wellbeing

In this episode, I spoke with Dawn Mullen, coach, psychology student and researcher, about the wellbeing of coaches. We explored some of the pressures coaches face, from the emotional demands of the work itself to the realities of marketing, visibility and running a business. It was a thoughtful conversation about boundaries, self-awareness, reflection, support, and what it takes to build a coaching practice that is both sustainable and humane. You can find out more about Dawn and her work via her Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dawn-mullen/

April 15, 202647 min

Clearer Positioning, Better Clients, with Sophie Swinn

In this episode, I talk to coach Sophie Swinn about what can change when you get clearer on who your work is really for, and start building your business accordingly. Sophie shares how her business has evolved over the past year, from questioning whether she could really make coaching work, to developing a more focused offer for CEOs in scaling organisations, attracting higher-value clients, and growing in confidence as a business owner. Together, we explore what clearer positioning actually looks like in practice. We talk about niching without feeling boxed in, using real client language instead of coaching jargon, experimenting with webinars and LinkedIn outreach, and finding a way to use automation without losing the human touch. We also discuss pricing, longer-term retainers, and the internal shift required to stop charging mainly for time and start thinking more seriously about results, value, and fit. This is an honest conversation about visibility, courage, sustainability, and what it can look like to grow a coaching business in a way that is more intentional, more commercially viable, and more aligned with the work you most want to do. In this episode, Sophie and I talk about: how she became clearer about working with CEOs why niching can make your marketing easier, not harder the difference between coaching language and client language what she has learned from webinars, newsletters, and LinkedIn outreach how she thinks about AI, automation, and keeping marketing human why she moved away from six-session packages towards longer-term retainers what changed when she began thinking more seriously about pricing and value how improv has helped her with visibility, confidence, and getting things wrong the role of humility, experimentation, and consistency in growing a business About Sophie Sophie Swinn is a coach who works with CEOs and senior leaders, helping them think more clearly, lead more effectively, and navigate the complexity of growth. In this conversation, she reflects candidly on the mindset shifts, marketing decisions, and business development experiments that have shaped her journey so far. Links Find Sophie Swinn: www.swinnleadershipcoaching.co.uk Find out more about Better Bolder Braver: www.betterbolderbraver.com If this episode speaks to where you are in your own marketing journey, please follow the show and share it with a coach who might appreciate it too.

March 3, 202647 min

Strategies for Balancing Coaching and Part-Time Work

This is the first episode of the newly revamped Better Bolder Braver podcast, and I’m delighted to be joined by Fiona Greenhill — a coach, trainer and consultant, and long-time member of the BBB community, who supports people working in theatre, the arts and culture. We talk about Fiona’s move from London to Hampshire— creating a life close to the sea and the woods, while still working in a sector that can feel very London-centric — and how she’s built a steady, spacious “work-work balance” by combining coaching with part-time employment. Fiona also shares why outdoor coaching didn’t quite work in practice, and how she now brings the environment into her work as a valuable “third element” in the coaching relationship. And she introduces her new offer: Coaching Skills for Arts Leaders and Managers , designed to help teams lead well and know when to coach and when to be direct. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

January 19, 202657 min

AI and Staying Human in Your Marketing with Liora Kern

In this episode, Frances speaks with strategic communication expert and Think Room CEO, Liora Kern , about how coaches can use AI in their marketing without losing their voice, values, or humanity. They explore: What Generative Engine Optimization (GEO/AIO) is and why it matters more than traditional SEO How to define your “DNA key” – the unique voice, story, and stance that should sit behind all your marketing Practical ways to use tools like ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, Granola and others – even if you’re just starting How to brief AI properly so it sounds like you , not like generic “AI language” Privacy, ethics, and why your business can benefit from AI without pretending to be a robot or burning out If you’re a life or executive coach feeling both curious and cautious about AI, this conversation will help you understand what’s possible, what to watch out for, and how to stay credible, ethical, and human in the age of algorithms.

January 5, 202647 min

Fiona Partington: Confidence Through Transition

In this episode, BBB community member, Fiona Partington, shares her story of transition and what has inspired to grow her coaching business in 2026. She talks about joining Better Bolder Braver in July 2024 after discovering it through an AoEC alumni session, and why the community model matters more to her than consuming marketing content alone. She describes trying to work through The Coach’s Marketing Journey alongside a demanding job, and how the live sessions, chapter-based check-ins, and confidence focused reflections have helped her stay connected and keep moving. Fiona outlines the coaching work she is building, including her role with Future Dreams, a breast cancer support charity in North London. She explains the two client groups she is most drawn to, people navigating work / life balance decisions and people making big life changes around career, family, and location. The common thread is rebuilding confidence during transition. She also addresses her relationship with marketing, moving from discomfort about self-promotion to a clearer view that marketing is simply how people find out a safe space exists. She shares her preference for one-to-one, human centred coaching over personality based approaches, and her belief in word of mouth rather than chasing vanity metrics. Fiona is active on LinkedIn and is currently building her presence without a website. Finally, Fiona speaks candidly about integrating her own health experience as a breast cancer survivor into her work, including what she has learned about acceptance and the reality of “never going back to normal”. She closes with her next steps for 2026, including joining the January Coach’s Marketing Journey sprint and building a sustainable balance between cancer related coaching and wider transition work.

August 6, 202510 min

The JOURNEY Chapter of the Coach's Marketing Journey course

In this final episode dedicated to the Better Bolder Braver Coach’s Marketing Journey (CMJ) course , Betty and Bruno guide you through the sixth and final chapter: Journey —where all the pieces come together into a sustainable, ethical, and purpose-led marketing strategy . This chapter helps you map out both your client’s journey —from where they start to where they aspire to be—and your own journey as a coach and marketer. You’ll explore how to align your content with your client’s progression , craft messaging that speaks to a smallest viable audience , and clearly communicate the outcomes and process of working with you. Alongside practical tools like journey and content mapping , you’ll be encouraged to refine your purpose , reflect on your course experience, and continue building a marketing approach that puts your clients first —while remaining grounded in your own values. If you’re ready to step forward with a marketing plan that truly reflects who you are and how you help, this episode offers the clarity and encouragement to do just that. Learn more about the course here: https://betterbolderbraver.com/coachs-marketing-journey

August 6, 202510 min

The CONTENT chapter of the Coach's Marketing Journey course

In this episode, Betty and Bruno introduce you to Chapter 5 of The Coach’s Marketing Journey , where the focus turns to content creation —not as a sales tool, but as a way to build trust and deepen connection with your ideal clients. You’ll explore how to shift from selling to informing , creating content that resonates, reassures, and reflects your unique voice as a coach. This chapter covers how to identify your audience’s needs , find an authentic tone , and use the right format—whether Watch, Read, Listen, or Do —to meet them where they are. You’ll also learn how to repurpose content for efficiency, and why embracing imperfection in your content is often the key to getting started and staying consistent. Through guided reflection and practical exercises, you’ll begin to approach content creation as a natural extension of your coaching rather than a performance. If you’ve ever felt stuck or unsure about what to share, this episode will help you unlock a more joyful, confident, and sustainable approach to showing up online. Learn more about the course here: https://betterbolderbraver.com/coachs-marketing-journey