312: The 7 Trust Languages Every Leader Should Know with Minda Harts
Trust at work isn't built through big promises or polished corporate statements. It's built in the tiny moments. In this episode, Erin sits down with bestselling author, speaker, professor, and filmmaker Minda Harts to talk about her framework for the 7 Trust Languages and why trust is really a communication issue hiding in plain sight. In this episode, you'll hear: -Why leaders need to stop pretending employees don't see what's happening -How the 7 Trust Languages can help leaders build stronger relationships -How to rebuild trust after a mistake without rushing the repair This episode is for anyone who wants to lead with more honesty, communicate with more humanity, and make work suck a whole lot less. https://www.mindaharts.com/">Minda's Website: https://www.mindaharts.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindaharts/">Connect with Minda on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindaharts/ *]:pointer-events-auto [content-visibility:auto] supports-[content-visibility:auto]:[contain-intrinsic-size:auto_100lvh] R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:1413613f-d4e9-447b-a6c6-34b45367f7be-25" data-turn-id-container= "request-WEB:1413613f-d4e9-447b-a6c6-34b45367f7be-25" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! - Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram - Take our simple, fun and insightful"What's your workplace superhero name?"quiz - Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book,"You Do You (ish)" -Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule. -Work with Us -Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsustainable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "Don't outsource your humanity." "People are human first and colleagues second." "Trust is a noun and a verb." "We can solve for respect, right? We can solve for trust." Intro Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity, readability, and length while preserving the core conversation and key insights from the episode. In this episode of b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck, Erin Hatzikostas talks with Minda Harts about workplace trust, the seven trust languages, leadership communication, rebuilding trust after mistakes, giving better feedback, psychological safety, and why leaders need to stop outsourcing their humanity. Why Trust Is the Real Workplace Issue Erin: I'm fascinated by your background because I'm like, "Oh yeah, she's all about trust. She's a speaker." And then I'm like, "Oh wait, she's a professor. Oh wait, she's a filmmaker. Oh wait, she wrote books." I'm curious about trust. It's not exactly the sexiest topic, but there must have been a moment or story that made you obsessed with it. Minda: The obsession actually started during COVID. I was living in New York City at the time, and I woke up around three o'clock in the morning. I kept hearing this voice saying, "The issue is always trust." I didn't think too much about it in the moment, but I wrote "trust languages" in my notes app. Over time, I kept coming back to it. The more I thought about all the writing I'd done over the years, I realized the real problem I was trying to solve was trust. In the workplace, when certain things happen, there's usually an expectation underneath that isn't being met. That erodes trust. But often, people don't even know they're doing it. So I started to see that it's not just a trust issue. It's also a communication issue. If the other person knew what you needed, could that get trust back on the tracks? In personal relationships, trust is a no-brainer. If I can't trust you, I don't know if this relationship is going to work. But in the workplace, we give people a pass for doing things that aren't trustworthy, and we never have conversations about it. The Seven Trust Languages Erin: I love the idea of trust languages because everybody thinks of love languages. You have seven trust languages. Where does it start? Do you need to understand the other person, or are these seven things everyone needs to do? Minda: My thesis is that we all have a primary, secondary, and tertiary trust language. There may be a time when we're speaking all of them, but if I'm a leader and you report to me, and I want to get the most productivity out of my entire team, not just my go-to people, then in our next one-on-one, I'm going to ask, "What does trust look like to you?" I want to make sure we have the most harmonious working relationship possible. I want to make sure you get the most out of being on this team. So what does trust look like to you? When someone answers that question, they'll usually tell you two or three of their trust languages without even knowing the labels. If I know feedback is important to you, or transparency is important to you, I can make note of that. Then when we're working together, I remember, "Erin values transparency. She values when I'm not being ambiguous. She values feedback that's meaningful and insightful." I tell people it's about the double E's. We're either enhancing trust or eroding trust. Erin: Always up or down. Minda: Exactly. We may not be able to solve everything at work, but we can solve for respect. We can solve for trust. The Question Every Leader Should Ask Erin: That question is so powerful. I used to lead a lot of employees, and I'm thinking, "Crap, if I could've simply said in one meeting, 'Trust is important. What does trust look like for you?'" Minda: I never had a manager ask me that. Not because they didn't want trust with me, but because we're all moving so fast in the workday that we forget there's a human on the other end. The data shows that if we have more trust, we're more productive and less anxious. I don't want to be the reason someone is spiraling through the day and not even know it. Erin: Imagine asking that in an interview when you're trying to attract the best talent. You think people aren't going to flock to that? They're going to be like, "Wow, I've never heard that before." Minda: Yes. And I write about that in the book. If you know acknowledgement is important to you, ask questions in the interview process that help you see whether that environment can provide it. Some people don't naturally say, "Great job. Thank you for delivering that project. I don't know where we'd be without it." That may not be the language they're most comfortable giving. But you may need that to survive and thrive at work. So tell people what's important to you. Advocate for yourself. We're not always going to work for the person who asks, "What does trust look like?" Sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns. Erin: And by sometimes, we mean most of the time. How to Ask for the Trust You Need Erin: Most of our listeners are leaders, but let's be honest, they're also employees. Everybody wants to be a great leader, but they also want to know how to be led better. Can you give an example of how someone might use the trust languages in an interview to understand what kind of manager they'd be working for? Minda: One trust language that is really important right now is sensitivity, which is about empathy and being mindful of our actions, tone, and behaviors. If I were interviewing, I might say, "Many people work together in the workplace, but they experience the workplace differently. If I reported to you and there was a natural disaster where I live, and I couldn't get into the office three or five days a week, how would we handle that?" That question tells me a lot about the manager. If they say, "Absolutely. Were you impacted by the fires? I know that must have been tough," that tells me something. But if they say, "Maybe you should move somewhere else because we need someone in the office five days a week," that tells me something too. You start to see how people humanize you, or whether they're robotic. Sensitivity, Security, and Psychological Safety Minda: Another example is what happens in meetings. We've all been in a situation where someone says a joke that isn't funny to everyone. Does the leader sweep it under the rug and let that person keep saying inappropriate things in team meetings? Or, if I have an issue, can I bring it to you without fear of retribution? A lot of trust is eroded in big team meetings. People speak over each other. People say things that are inappropriate, not necessarily because they woke up deciding to be inappropriate, but because they're used to talking any kind of way. That's where psychological safety comes in, which is connected to the trust language of security. Even if we have a difference of opinion, there should still be enough respect for me to have a good conversation with you. And if someone gives feedback, how do you receive it? Do you say, "I've never heard that before," and get defensive? Or do you say, "Let me consider what you're saying. Tell me more. Let me ask some questions." These behaviors keep showing up at work, and people don't always realize how detrimental they can be. Erin: Everybody's different. I'm thinking about two people who support my business. One is more on the sensitivity side. If something gets messed up, I know I need to say, "Dude, no big deal at all." And when something is done well, I need to say the thing that's already inside my head: "You crushed it." The other person is about as far from sensitive as you can imagine. For her, follow-through probably matters more. She's my operations person. It's more like, "Erin, you said you were going to send me three videos. Send me the three videos." Understanding those people is really important. How to Rebuild Trust After You Mess Up Erin: Rebuilding trust is always a big one. Let's say you screwed something up with a client, customer, or major project. What are some ways to rebuild trust that people may not think of? Minda: One trust language that matters here is demonstration. Do our actions align with our values? I can tell you all day that I'm going to make the tacos the way you expect them every time you come to the taco truck. But if every time you come, they're made differently, I'm not demonstrating that you can trust this place. When we make a mistake, we can acknowledge it. "You know what? We have a new cook. We're training them today. But we value you as a customer." Then we pay attention. "Oh, you like your cheese sprinkled this way? Now that I know that, I want to demonstrate that you can trust us. Next time you come, I'm going to check the bag before you leave." It's the show and the tell. A lot of times in life, we want to skip over the repair part. We say, "I said I'm sorry. Move on." But rebuilding trust requires demonstration over time. I believe if trust can be broken, it can be rebuilt, if it's not egregious. But it requires action. Trust is a noun and a verb. Erin: It takes patience. When we mess up, we want instant gratification. We want the wound to be healed right away. In a big corporation, it might be, "We'll give you a fee holiday," because we want something tangible and quick. But if you slow down and accept that it may be uncomfortable for a little while, then next week you can show up differently. You can go above and beyond. You can demonstrate the repair. Minda: Absolutely. And we also have to give people the opportunity to rebuild. If we've been burned in our personal or professional lives, sometimes we come into the next situation with our defenses up. You may be the best boss I've never had yet, but if I'm still holding onto hurts and broken promises from my last situation, I'm not going to get the best out of the situation with you, and you're not going to get the best from me. So we also have to be self-aware. Is this person really eroding trust, or am I bringing baggage from past experiences? Erin: Right. It's easy to tell stories like, "The boss is mad at me because I got a three-word email." But maybe the boss is running to another meeting and isn't actually worried about the mistake you made. What to Do When You Break Trust With Your Boss Erin: Let's say you mess something up with your boss. Maybe you botch a report, lose a customer, or mess up some technology. Beyond demonstrating that you can get it right next time, what else helps? Minda: Remember that your boss is human too. They have expectations you may not be aware of, especially if you're new to the team. You might say, "I know expectations can change depending on priorities, and I want to make sure we're aligned. I really enjoy working on your team, and I want our working relationship to be strong. What do you need from me to do your best work?" Success is not a solo sport. When you ask that kind of question, they may not say, "Transparency is important to me," or, "Follow-through is important to me," but they'll tell you something that reveals what matters. Then you can make a mental note. If you say you'll get something done by five and you can't, don't workplace ghost them. Follow up and say, "I know the deadline is approaching. Could I get an extension of one hour? I'll get it to you shortly." That keeps trust on the tracks. We create narratives in our heads that people will be upset with us, but most people just want honesty. We all bump up against deadlines. We all make mistakes. The issue is how we communicate it. The Leadership Mistake That Drives Minda Crazy Erin: What gets under your skin? What's your biggest leadership pet peeve? What's the simple thing leaders do wrong that you wish they'd change? Minda: I really value transparency, which is clarity and honesty. What gets under my skin is when leaders act like employees are stupid. We see the smoke coming out of the chimney. We hear the alarms going off. Then you come and tell us, "There's nothing to worry about. Nothing to see here." You may not know why the smoke is happening. You may not know why the alarms are going off. But acknowledge it. Say, "I know you've smelled the smoke. I've smelled it too. I don't know exactly what's causing it, but once I do, I'll let you know." That feels better and keeps trust intact more than pretending nothing happened. Don't pretend we didn't just do a reorganization. Don't pretend we didn't just lay off half the team. Let's humanize it. People are human first and colleagues second. Sometimes leaders think they can't be honest because they're privy to certain information. Then say that. "I don't have all the information right now, but I understand how this might make you feel. If you have questions, book time with me and let's talk it through." That feels much better than watching someone's work friend get laid off after ten years and then pretending nothing happened. Erin: I love that. Stop thinking your employees are stupid. The bar is low, isn't it? Minda: It's so low. Don't Outsource Your Humanity Erin: I saw a post where someone asked you a question about AI, and the gremlin that came out of you was, "Don't outsource your humanity." What caused that? Minda: Someone asked me about using AI in workplace communication. I think it's important to use the tools available to us. But what can happen is I put my thoughts into an agent, then I email you. Then you put your thoughts into an agent, and now you're emailing me back. At that point, we've taken ourselves out of it. It's just two agents talking to each other. There's no nuance. The tools don't understand the history of what happened in the meeting. They're getting it from one angle. So before you press send, just because the grammar is great and the message is direct, take another look. Think about the nuance. Think about the relationship. When this person finishes reading the email, how are they going to feel? What is the relationship going to feel like? If we're just two agents talking to each other, we may not be building trust. We may be eroding it. That's why I said, "Don't outsource your humanity." Erin: Preaching to the choir. I'm an authenticity girl. Sounding smart is now suspicious. Stop sounding smart. How to Give Tough Feedback Without Eroding Trust Erin: Can we talk about giving tough feedback? Whether it's an annual review or on the fly, I think the feedback sandwich is over. Maybe that worked when people didn't know they were being sandwiched, but now we all know. How do you give transparent feedback while still building trust? Minda: One thing I created is a game called The Trust Catalyst, which helps people practice these conversations so they don't erode trust. If we're doing a one-on-one or year-end review, I'm not going to start by launching into feedback. If you sit down or appear on Zoom, and the first thing I say is, "That report you did last week should have been done differently," you're immediately thinking, "I didn't know this was a problem." That sets the tone for the whole meeting. Think of the seven trust languages as tools. If you have a nail, you're not going to grab a wrench first. You're going to grab the right tool. Maybe you start with acknowledgement. Maybe you start with sensitivity because you know this person has had a rough year. When you do get to feedback, make sure it's meaningful and gives the person an opportunity to grow. It's not just what you say. It's how you say it. You can say, "We need to meet these deadlines more consistently. Is there something you need from me so we can make sure you hit this mark three weeks from now?" That sounds very different from making someone feel like they may not have a job by the end of the week. I always go back to the double E's. Is what I'm about to say going to enhance this relationship or erode it? Think about what you want the end of the conversation to look like. Do you want the person to feel down and out, waiting to turn off the camera? Or is there a way that when you see each other later, the relationship still feels intact? Growing up, my mom and dad could say the exact same thing to me, but when my dad said it, I wanted to spiral down the wall because his delivery was harsh. My mom could say the same thing, and I would receive it because I knew she was telling me in a way that helped me grow. That's something leaders and colleagues can do better. When Your Peer Becomes Your Employee Erin: Here's a sticky situation: your peer becomes your employee. You get promoted, and Joe, who used to be your sidekick and confidant, is now reporting to you. How do you build this new level of trust when the relationship changes? Minda: That happens a lot, and it can be sticky depending on which side of the friendship you're on. A big part of it is transparency. Talk about the elephant in the room. You might say, "I know we have a great working relationship, and now I'm in this leadership position. There may be times when I have to put certain priorities first, but I want you to know you can always come to me. I hope we can have two relationships: our working relationship and our friendship. There may be times when I have sensitive information I can't talk about like I could before, but I hope we can find that balance." I would much rather someone be transparent with me and create that sense of security than pretend I don't exist anymore or start acting weird. Nine times out of ten, if people would communicate instead of being conflict avoidant, we could have better relationships. We create narratives that it can't work, but why not talk about how it can work? Say, "If it ever feels like our friendship isn't there, or I'm acting differently because I'm in this role, tell me. I value that." We have to say what we mean without being mean. Erin: Exactly. Say the thing you're already going to say to your coach or your partner. Why not say it to the actual person? Minda: Yes. Because now I have that information. I may think everything is fine, but you may feel like, "We used to talk every day, and now we only talk once a month." You might assume I don't care as much now that I have this leadership title, when really, I'm just busy and hadn't thought about it. Again, many of these things are communication issues before they become trust issues. Green-Lighting Yourself Erin: You haven't just focused on trust. You're also a filmmaker, and part of that is telling stories about real-life situations, friendships, and the things that make life beautiful and complicated. So many people listening are trying to make work suck less, but they're also looking for inspiration to do things that feel uncomfortable or outlandish. Can you talk about the filmmaking side? Minda: I never intended to be an author. I fell into it. So I would encourage people to remember that you can learn new things. During the pandemic, I started taking screenwriting classes because I knew I wanted to take the stories I'd been telling and share them in another medium. I wanted to be a better storyteller, and I'm a big advocate of investing in yourself. Whether I win an Oscar, a Webby, or nothing, I wanted to enhance that skill. I also thought about the intellectual property I have and how I could tell those stories in different ways. I started taking classes about six years ago. At some point, I said, "I'm not going to wait for the green light from somebody else. I'm going to green light myself." So I started making short films. I kept taking coursework, reading books, finding my crew on social media, and asking people around. Now I'm four short films in, and they've been in many festivals. It feels good to uncover a new area of my life that I'm good at. Maybe I'll win Oscars in the future. Maybe I won't. But I'm enjoying this part of my life because it's another way to get stories heard by people who may never read my books. Erin: You said something so simple: "I took a class." So many times we act like we don't even know where to start. But there's a class for everything. Minda: Everything. Erin: Just take the class. Get curious. Minda: I'll tell you and your listeners a secret. Since I was a teenager, I've always wanted to take piano lessons. Every year, I'd put it on the vision board: "Take piano lessons." And I never did. But later today, I'm taking my first piano lesson. I may end up in a recital with preschoolers, but this is for me. Sometimes we just have to do things for us. Minda's "Buck That" Story Erin: We always ask people for their "buck that" story. It's a time when you bucked the norm, went against the grain, and something good happened as a result. Do you have one? Minda: Yes. It's the intersection where I sit now. I was in corporate America for 15 years, and in 2015, I started this dinosaur thing called a blog. I was frustrated about the workplace I was in. There was no trust anywhere. The blog was a way for me to talk about what I was experiencing, not from a "woe is me" place, but from a place of, "If anybody else is feeling this way, here are the tips I wish I had used or that I'm working through." Every Monday, I put out a memo. Eventually, those memos became my first bestselling book, The Memo. I had no idea that would happen. Now I'm on book four and making films. So sow those seeds. Take the step. I left a very stable job, and I was terrified. I'm type A. I love stability because I didn't have a lot of it growing up. I thought, "Give me the gold watch. I'm here forever." Taking that leap, betting on myself, and bucking the system showed me that success isn't just one way. I think I'm a constant "buck that" girl now. That's just how I live. Erin: Once you buck it once and it works out, that's the end of the story. That's why we love to share these stories for people who are holding themselves back. One Last Tip to Make Work Suck Less Erin: What's your one last tip to make work suck less? Minda: Ask yourself, "What do I want out of work?" Sometimes we do things at work to make work work for everybody else, but we never consider what it needs to look like for us. Once you understand what you need, you can ask for it more clearly. Not what the person next to you wants. Not what someone on Microsoft Teams wants. What is really going to make you say, "This was worth the ride"? We should remember that we are good enough to deserve the best workplace possible.
