We interview some of the leading entrepreneurs and industry experts on cross-border business in the region and globally.
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September 8, 202634 min
Can Chinese Medtech Expand Into the U.S. Market?
Chinese biotech companies have increasingly emerged as global innovators, licensing drugs and technologies to U.S. companies and attracting international capital. Could Chinese medtech be next? In this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, Art Dicker and Chris DeAngelis speak with Tiffany Xu, founder and CEO of Seasalt Partners and host of the MedTech Circle Podcast, about Chinese medical device companies and their prospects in the U.S. market. Tiffany explains why Chinese medtech companies have historically been stronger as manufacturers and fast followers than as global innovators—and why medical devices face very different challenges from pharmaceuticals when expanding internationally. The conversation explores the high cost of U.S. market entry, FDA and clinical requirements, the importance of physician KOLs and distribution channels, and why even a technically strong product can struggle to gain traction in the United States. They also discuss where the next opportunities may emerge, including lower-risk Class II devices, partnerships between Chinese innovators and U.S. commercialization teams, and Chinese CDMOs providing cost-effective engineering, design, prototyping and small-batch manufacturing for U.S. medtech startups. Finally, Tiffany considers whether medtech could eventually develop its own version of the cross-border “NewCo” model that has become increasingly important in biotech—and what would need to happen for that market to develop.
August 31, 202634 min
Why China Has Become a Global Biotech Innovation Hub — with David Cao
China has rapidly emerged as one of the most important sources of biotech innovation in the world. But what is driving that growth—and what does it mean for U.S. biotech companies, pharmaceutical companies and investors? In this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, Art Dicker speaks with David Cao, founder of Target2Drug BioAdvisory and a strategic advisor to VCs, biotech startups and biopharma companies. David has spent his career across both the U.S. and Chinese life sciences ecosystems and helps companies navigate opportunities between the two markets. David explains why China’s biotech rise is the result of decades of investment in scientific talent, research infrastructure and drug-development capabilities—not an overnight phenomenon. They discuss China’s particular strengths in drug discovery and early-stage clinical development, including why trials can often move faster and at lower cost in China. The conversation also explores the surge in China-to-U.S. biotech licensing, the growing importance of Chinese-developed ADCs and bispecific antibodies, and the rise of the “NewCo” model, in which U.S. investors build new biotech companies around assets sourced from China. David explains why Chinese biotech companies increasingly want more than a traditional licensing payment—they may also want equity, board participation and the opportunity to learn how global drug development works. Art and David also examine an underappreciated opportunity for Western biotech companies: conducting clinical development in China, particularly for rare diseases where the concentration of patients at major Chinese hospitals can dramatically accelerate recruitment. Finally, they tackle the larger question hanging over the industry: Is the growth of Chinese biotech a threat to the U.S. industry, or can the two ecosystems complement each other? David argues that drug development is fundamentally global—and that combining American strengths in breakthrough science, capital and global clinical development with Chinese strengths in drug discovery, speed and early clinical development could ultimately produce better medicines faster and at lower cost. The episode offers a practical look at how the U.S.–China biotech relationship is evolving from simple licensing transactions toward a much deeper and more interconnected model of collaboration. Connect with David:https://www.linkedin.com/in/songsong-david-cao/ https://www.t2dbioadvisory.com/
June 21, 202635 min
The Fragile Dragon: Understanding China Beyond the Headlines, with Ker Gibbs
In this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, former AmCham Shanghai chairman Ker Gibbs discusses his new book, The Fragile Dragon , blending his family history, decades of experience in China, and insights from leading one of the most important American business organizations in the country. Gibbs explains that the book grew out of two experiences: discovering his own family’s deep ties to modern Chinese history and realizing how little many Americans understand about China beyond the headlines. His Chinese grandfather was a prominent lawyer, his American father was a Chinese-speaking military intelligence officer, and his own career took him to China in 1985, where he witnessed the country’s transformation firsthand. The central theme of the book is that China is both powerful and vulnerable. Gibbs argues that many Americans view China as an unstoppable global force, while overlooking the country’s internal weaknesses, difficult geography, and deep sense of historical insecurity. He believes understanding these vulnerabilities is essential to understanding China’s actions, particularly regarding Taiwan, the South China Sea, and relations with the United States. The conversation also explores how Americans and Chinese view history differently. While Americans often move on from past conflicts, Chinese leaders and citizens continue to draw lessons from historical experiences such as the Korean War and the “Century of Humiliation.” Gibbs argues that these historical memories still shape China’s worldview today. Finally, Gibbs discusses lessons from doing business in China, including why companies such as eBay struggled while local competitors succeeded. He emphasizes the importance of humility, local decision-making, and understanding China on its own terms. This episode offers a thoughtful and nuanced perspective on China, helping listeners move beyond simplistic narratives and better understand one of the world’s most important and complicated relationships. You can purchase The Fragile Dragon on Amazon here: https://a.co/d/05xH8Rwh
December 17, 202535 min
Unlocking Asia's Markets: A Conversation with Intralink's Tommy Shiekman
In this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, we're joined by Tommy Shiekman, Senior Vice President at Intralink. Tommy discusses his journey from studying Chinese language to his current role at Intralink, an advisory firm assisting technology companies with cross-border expansion in Asia. He shares insights into working in China, the importance of having boots on the ground, and managing misconceptions about intellectual property. We delve into the challenges and strategies for U.S. tech companies entering Asian markets, emphasizing patience and the need for anchor clients. Tommy also highlights the impacts of geopolitical tensions and identifies sectors with significant opportunities, such as clean tech, healthcare, and mobility.
November 19, 202538 min
US-China Trade Dynamics: A Conversation with John Ling from LinVest Consulting
In this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, we're joined by John Ling, Managing Director at LinVest Consulting, to discuss the ongoing dynamics of US-China trade and investment. John highlights the immense interest Chinese companies still have in the US market, despite political challenges and high tariffs. He shares his experiences of navigating the competitive Chinese market, emphasizing the importance of relationships in China. Additionally, John explores the innovative strides in Chinese manufacturing, particularly in robotics and automation, and the potential impacts of a rumored $1 trillion investment deal between the US and China. This discussion sheds light on the complexities and opportunities in the bilateral trade relationship.
August 22, 202547 min
Building the Future: Carol Yu on Nurturing China's Tech Startups
Building the Future: Carol Yu on Nurturing China's Tech Startups In the latest episode of the Asia Business Podcast, we’re joined by Carol Yu, the dynamic founding partner and Associate Dean of Shenzhen InnoX Academy. This episode delves into Carol's journey from her academic roots in Guangzhou, through her formative years in the U.S., and back to her entrepreneurial endeavors in Southern China. Carol shares insights into the innovative model of InnoX Academy, which nurtures entrepreneurial talent and incubates tech startups in a region famous for its rapid technological advancements. Meet Carol Yu: The Visionary Behind InnoX Academy Connect with Carol Carol Yu is no stranger to pioneering new paths. Her academic journey took her from Guangzhou to the U.S., where she pursued higher education in economics and public policy. Her passion for innovation and education ultimately led her back to China, where she co-founded Shenzhen InnoX Academy with Professor Li Zexiang. Professor Li, renowned for his role in launching DJI, has been instrumental in promoting tech innovation in Shenzhen, a hub for hardware technology. InnoX Academy: A Unique Model for Incubating Talent The Shenzhen InnoX Academy stands out for its commitment to fostering young talent. Unlike traditional accelerators like Y Combinator focused primarily on product and pitch, InnoX provides a comprehensive nurturing environment. Carol elaborates on the academy's approach: starting with students who often have no clear project idea, InnoX offers a systematic empowerment platform. This includes a talent pool, curated curriculum, supply-chain resources, and a focus on both technical skills and go-to-market strategies. Combating Challenges: Bridging Technical Expertise and Entrepreneurial Savvy A key challenge faced by InnoX Academy is bridging the gap between technical innovation and commercialization. Carol notes that many young innovators possess deep technical skills but lack understanding of market dynamics and business management. The academy addresses this by providing industry-experienced mentors from leading firms like DJI, BYD, and Huawei, who guide students in transforming their innovative ideas into market-ready products. The Hardware Renaissance: Rethinking Global Strategies Carol discusses the shifting perception of hardware in tech industries. As software business models saturate, the combination of hardware innovation with AI and robotics creates new opportunities. Shenzhen's capability to rapidly iterate and commercialize products presents a distinct advantage. InnoX Academy enables projects to achieve cash flow positivity within 18 months and even bypass traditional funding needs by directly moving towards IPOs. Navigating Geopolitical Landscapes: Expanding Beyond China The discussion also touches on the global ambitions of Chinese entrepreneurs amidst shifting geopolitical tides. Carol acknowledges the challenges brought by heightened tariffs and geopolitical tensions. Yet, she emphasizes the resilience and adaptability of entrepreneurs in pursuing the lucrative U.S. and European markets through strategic pivots, such as leveraging Singaporean bases or separating hardware and software development. The Role of Education: From Stanford and Harvard to InnoX Reflecting on her educational experiences at Stanford and Harvard, Carol praises the environments that shaped her entrepreneurial spirit. Stanford imparted a boundless belief in possibility, while Harvard provided a deeper understanding of global policy dynamics. These influences are evident in her leadership at InnoX, where she underscores the importance of values-driven entrepreneurship and the power of positive societal impact. Conclusion: A Future-Forward Vision for Global Innovation Carol Yu's work with InnoX Academy embodies a forward-thinking model that intersects innovation with cultural understanding and business acumen. She continues to inspire the next generation of entrepreneurs not only to succeed in markets but to create meaningful global impact. As the world navigates complex challenges, the narratives from leaders like Carol provide invaluable insights into the evolving landscape of global business and technology. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:08 Carol Yu's Background and Career Journey 05:28 Professor Li and the Birth of DJI 10:14 InnoX Academy and Talent Development 11:25 Challenges and Strategies in Talent Selection 13:28 Empowerment Platform and Curriculum 18:09 Shared Factory Platform and Market Integration 18:54 Innovation and Industrialization in China 24:13 Funding Strategies and Road Shows 25:11 Challenges in Hardware Business 28:02 Global Expansion and Geopolitical Challenges 29:40 Advice for Chinese Companies Entering Global Markets 30:44 Impact of US-China Trade Relations Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts
August 13, 202536 min
The U.S.-China Trade Landscape: Dan Harris on Opportunities and Challenges
The U.S.-China Trade Landscape: Dan Harris on Opportunities and Challenges Welcome to a compelling episode of the Asia Business Podcast, where we have the privilege of diving into the complex world of international trade and business relationships with China. Our special guest, Dan Harris, founding partner at Harris Sliwoski and renowned author of the China Law Blog, brings a wealth of expertise and candid insights into the current trade dynamics and business environment amidst the shifting sands of international relations. Introducing Dan Harris Connect with Dan Dan Harris is a distinguished legal expert with extensive experience in navigating the legal landscapes of China and other emerging markets. Known for his prolific contributions to major publications like The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and Forbes, Dan is a thought leader whose perspectives are highly valued by businesses operating on the global stage. Drawing from his vast experience, Dan provides an unfiltered view of the challenges and opportunities that come with doing business in China. The Complexities of Tariffs and Trade Relations In this episode, we delve into the intricate world of tariffs with Dan Harris. The discussion highlights the unpredictable nature of current trade policies under the administration, particularly with the ongoing tariff tensions between the United States and China. Dan shares his observations on the challenges companies face in managing tariffs and the varying strategies they are employing to navigate these turbulent waters. Despite not being a "tariff person" by trade, Dan has found himself entrenched in the subject due to its pervasive impact on his clients. As tariffs remain a key tool for leveraging international negotiations, Dan elucidates the difficulties in predicting policy outcomes and advises companies to make informed decisions rather than hasty moves that could lead to greater risks. The Reality of Manufacturing Shifts Dan discusses the nuances of shifting manufacturing from China to countries like Cambodia. While some companies are scrambling to escape high tariffs by relocating manufacturing, Dan warns of the complexities and potential pitfalls involved. He illustrates how many companies risk falling into traps of willful ignorance regarding the origins and true nature of their products. Through concrete examples, Dan shows how businesses are reacting to tariffs with varying degrees of success, from opportunistic legal maneuvers to panicked relocations that may not fully alleviate risk. His insights remind us that strategic, informed decision-making is crucial for navigating the ever-evolving landscape of international trade. Business Environment in China: Past and Present Reflecting on the changes in China's business environment, Dan Harris offers a historical perspective on the shifts in regulatory practices and the current state of affairs for foreign companies. While challenges remain, he argues that, in many respects, it has become easier to do business in China with clearer laws and better enforcement against unfair competition. Dan shares how his early optimism about China's market potential evolved over time, highlighting both his successes and misjudgments in this complex arena. Yet, he remains hopeful about China's future, emphasizing the intrinsic dynamism and adaptability of its people and businesses. Final Thoughts on US-China Trade Dynamics The conversation rounds off with a discussion on the US government's recent decisions in the tech sector, particularly concerning Nvidia's ability to sell chips to China. Dan underscores the importance of clear policies and consistent application of rules, not only to foster better business environments but to maintain a stable international order. This episode, rich with firsthand insights from Dan Harris, provides valuable lessons for anyone involved in or considering entry into the Chinese market. His experienced perspective offers both caution and optimism for navigating the current trade landscape. Thank you for tuning in to this insightful episode. If you wish to explore more about international trade strategies or seek guidance in navigating complex markets like China, consider reaching out to experts like Dan Harris and staying informed through platforms like the China Law Blog. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Today's Topics 00:39 Meet the Co-Host: Chris 01:04 Introducing Dan Harris 01:46 Dan's Impact on Business in China 03:07 Discussion on Tariffs and Trade 05:55 Client Reactions to Tariffs 08:43 Legal and Ethical Considerations 12:07 Strategies to Mitigate Tariff Impact 22:00 Transition to Business Environment in China 22:26 US-China Tech Relations 25:58 Dan's Perspective on China 32:00 Business Trends in China 34:39 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts
August 4, 202546 min
China Plus One: Strategies for Global Supply Chains with Jeff Goldstein
China Plus One: Strategies for Global Supply Chains with Jeff Goldstein Welcome to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast. Today, we are joined by Co-Host Chris DeAngelis are privileged to welcome Jeff Goldstein, a friend of the show and an expert in supply chain management, sourcing, and contracting in Asia. As the founder and president of Onward Global, Jeff offers invaluable insights into the intricate dynamics of Asian supply chains. Introducing Jeff Goldstein Visit Onward Global Jeff Goldstein is a seasoned professional with 15 years of experience in China, overseeing supply chains and founding Onward Global—a consulting and contracting partner specializing in sourcing and supply chain management across Asia. His experience spans multiple countries, including Cambodia, India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, and Indonesia, which provides him with a unique perspective on the evolving landscape of global supply chains. The Impact of COVID-19 and Tariffs In today’s episode, Jeff delves into the challenges posed by recent global events, such as COVID-19 lockdowns and increasing tariffs, which have magnified the importance of effective supply chain management. These disruptions have underscored the need for businesses to diversify their supply chains to mitigate risks associated with over-dependence on China. Exploring the China Plus One Strategy Jeff highlights the significance of the "China Plus One" strategy, where businesses look to expand their manufacturing and supply chains beyond China to other countries. This approach not only helps in risk management but also in leveraging the varied advantages offered by different regions in Asia. However, Jeff warns that this strategy requires substantial time, resources, and a strong alignment within the company to be successful. Country-Specific Opportunities and Challenges Drawing from his extensive travel and work across Asia, Jeff shares insights into the specific opportunities and challenges faced by businesses in different countries. For instance, while India presents exciting opportunities due to its raw materials and English-speaking workforce, it also poses challenges related to regulatory barriers and a long-standing focus on the domestic market. The Role of Chinese Factories in Southeast Asia In an interesting turn, Jeff uncovers the industrious nature of Chinese businesses that have succeeded in establishing operations in Southeast Asia. These businesses demonstrate remarkable agility and a capacity to set up fully operational factories in countries like Indonesia within just one year, highlighting the dynamic nature of the Asian manufacturing landscape. Overcoming Quality Control Challenges Jeff emphasizes the importance of quality assurance and its critical role in ensuring the success of supply chain operations. He explains how recent economic pressures have increased the risk of corner-cutting in Chinese factories, which reinforces the need for stringent quality control measures and robust contract management. Building a Resilient Supply Chain For businesses looking to optimize their supply chains, Jeff advises adopting a holistic approach that encompasses risk management, quality assurance, and strategic diversification. He advocates for businesses to be proactive, invest in building local teams, and develop strong relationships with suppliers to ensure sustainable growth. Final Thoughts and Contact Information For businesses striving to navigate the complex world of Asian supply chains, Jeff Goldstein stands out as a knowledgeable guide. To learn more about how Jeff and his team at Onward Global can support your business, please visit onwardglobal.com or reach out directly via email at jeffrey@onwardglobal.com . We thank Jeff for sharing his expertise with us, shedding light on strategies that can help businesses thrive in today’s challenging environment. Stay tuned for more episodes of the Asia Business Podcast, where we continue to bring insights from leaders who are shaping the future of business in Asia. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:43 Jeff Goldstein's Journey in China 01:22 Current Trends in Supply Chain Management 02:57 China Plus One Strategy 03:59 Challenges and Opportunities in Diversifying Supply Chains 13:27 Quality Control and Assurance in Manufacturing 24:48 Customs Inspections and Transshipment Risks 25:40 Verification and Trust in Supplier Relationships 26:16 Challenges of Shifting Supply Chains to Southeast Asia 27:00 Impact of US-China Tariffs on Factories 30:14 Legal and Ethical Considerations in Supply Chain Management 31:28 Client Pain Points and Supply Chain Solutions 37:07 Cultural Differences in Factory Management 43:31 Podcast Wrap-Up and Contact Information Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts
June 30, 202534 min
From China to Southeast Asia: Strategic Manufacturing Shifts
From China to Southeast Asia: Strategic Manufacturing Shifts Welcome to another insightful episode of the Asia Business Podcast. In this episode, we sit down with David Alexander, the CEO of Baysource Global. With an extensive footprint in contract manufacturing and consultation across Asia, David brings forward remarkable insights into the evolving landscape of global supply chains, focusing heavily on Asia's dynamic market. Introducing David Alexander Connect with David Visit Baysource Global David Alexander is at the helm of Baysource Global, a company that specializes in managing contract manufacturing projects across several Asian hubs, including China, Vietnam, India, Malaysia, Thailand, and Cambodia. With a proven track record in due diligence, supplier selection, and organizational integrity, David and his team offer unmatched consulting services in manufacturing and quality assurance. The Changing Landscape of Global Manufacturing Reflecting on his initial experiences dating back to 2005, David shares transformative moments that reshaped his understanding of manufacturing processes in Asia. From witnessing delicate manual craftsmanship in China's factories to the integration of sophisticated robotics, the contrast sheds light on technological evolution and adaptation to labor shortages today. The China Plus One Strategy The push towards diversification has seen many companies adopt a China plus one strategy to mitigate risks associated with over-reliance on a single nation. David discusses the shift and the potential of countries like Vietnam and Cambodia as emerging manufacturing hubs, emphasizing the need for patience and strategic financial analysis given the varied readiness of these countries. Unveiling Manufacturing Ingenuity David illuminates the ingenuity observed in factories across Asia, from innovative shipping strategies to the birth of new products leveraging existing manufacturing capabilities. His anecdotes highlight the entrepreneurial spirit and adaptability deeply embedded within the Asian manufacturing context. Challenges in Supplier Selection Identifying the right supplier is often fraught with challenges, compounded by cultural and operational differences. David outlines several red flags and conditions that might elude the untrained eye but can significantly impact production quality and supply continuity. Cultural Nuances in Business Navigating cultural nuances remains integral to establishing strong business relationships in Asia. David unpacks how countries like China, Vietnam, and India vary in their business approach and communication, offering invaluable tips for companies looking to make inroads into these markets. The Impact of Tariffs and the Future Landscape Tariff uncertainties have cast long shadows over international trade. Although the future remains uncertain, David discusses potential scenarios and the roles emerging markets like Cambodia might play in the future as cost-effective manufacturing destinations. In Conclusion David Alexander’s insights underscore the importance of strategic planning, cultural understanding, and innovative thinking in navigating Asia’s manufacturing landscape. Whether it’s through diversification strategies or tapping into new markets, his viewpoints offer a roadmap for companies seeking to optimize their manufacturing operations. For more insights and consultancy services, David Alexander is reachable through LinkedIn or Baysource Global’s website, where listeners can delve deeper into the strategies discussed in this episode. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:14 Current Supply Chain Challenges 00:48 Overview of Bay Source Global 01:59 Evolution of Manufacturing in Asia 06:36 Innovative Solutions in Manufacturing 09:48 China Plus One Strategy 12:00 Evaluating Suppliers and Red Flags 17:22 Cultural Differences in Business Practices 25:57 Impact of Tariffs and Future Predictions 30:44 Conclusion and Contact Information Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts
June 4, 202531 min
Cross-border E-commerce and Supply Chain Realities with Jianggan Li
Cross-border E-commerce and Supply Chain Realities with Jianggan Li In a vibrant episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker engages in a compelling conversation with Jianggan Li, the founder and CEO of Momentum Works, a venture builder and insights research firm. As a thought leader and co-author of the book "Seeing the Unseen Behind Chinese Tech Giants Global Venturing," Jianggan shares his extensive knowledge and unique perspectives on the international business terrain, particularly focusing on Chinese companies' strategies for penetrating global markets. Introducing Jianggan Li Connect with Jianggan Jianggan Li is a seasoned entrepreneur with roots in China, now thriving in Singapore. With his extensive background in venture building and market insights, Jianggan commands a strong understanding of the dynamics that drive Chinese companies to venture beyond their borders. His journey from a young expatriate in Singapore to a prolific businessman offers invaluable insights into cross-cultural business strategies. Understanding the Unfolding Global Business Dynamics In the episode, Jianggan explores the complexities of Chinese companies navigating international waters, emphasizing the need for adaptability and strategic maneuvering in response to ever-shifting market conditions. He highlights how companies like Temu and Shein are adeptly structuring their logistics to accommodate regulatory changes, pointing to the broader need for strategic foresight in business operations. The Resilience and Agility of Chinese Companies Chinese companies are renowned for their agility and resilience in the face of changing demands and regulations. Jianggan discusses the strategic adjustments of brands amid evolving trade rules, illustrating how they maintain competitiveness by leveraging subsidies, loopholes, and local partnerships. The conversation underscores the necessity for businesses to anticipate market shifts and prepare for regulatory changes proactively. Localizing Brand Identity in International Markets A key challenge for Chinese e-commerce giants like Shein is successfully localizing their brand identity to resonate with diverse global consumers. Jianggan shares insights into how these companies build their brand narratives to overcome political perceptions and establish consumer trust. By focusing on product quality, efficient logistics, and strategic marketing, Chinese companies can construct a robust brand presence internationally. Lessons from the Chinese Tech Sector Art and Jianggan delve into the dynamic nature of the Chinese tech sector, exploring the competitive challenges it presents and the lessons that can be extrapolated for global application. Jianggan's experiences shed light on the critical role of innovation, adaptability, and local integration in sustaining growth in competitive markets. Predicting the Future of Chinese Tech Giants Looking ahead, Jianggan offers speculative insights into the future trajectory of current tech giants, contemplating their longevity and potential for sustained dominance. Despite the unpredictable nature of the tech industry, the conversation hints at the importance of maintaining agility and a forward-thinking approach to remain at the forefront of technological advancement. Final Reflections and Future Engagement Jianggan Li's deep-seated expertise offers listeners strategic insights into navigating the complexities of international business and technology. For those intrigued by Jianggan's insights and keen to delve deeper, he is accessible via LinkedIn for further discussions and collaborations. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:08 Jianggan Li's Background and Journey 03:02 Challenges and Strategies in Chinese Tech Ventures 04:08 Supply Chain Dynamics and Adaptations 07:55 Localization and Brand Identity 14:26 Future of Chinese Tech Companies 27:42 Conclusion and Contact Information Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts
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