2Tokens Podcast

Hosted by 2Tokens Studio

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101

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Apr 2026

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About the show

Clarifying the path towards tokenization through connecting, educating, and identifying what is needed. The multi-disciplinary aspect of tokenization implies that representatives from various parts of society all need to engage, reflected in the foundation's participants and the support from multiple ministries, the industry, universities, and many other (international) institutions. 2Tokens is a public project financed in the context of the response of the European Union on the COVID-19 pandemic.

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April 21, 2026Episode 12329 min

Episode 123: Local Power, Shared Energy: Building Community Grids on Ameland

Can local communities truly take control of their own energy, and what’s standing in the way?In this episode of the Two Tokens Podcast, recorded at Bird & Bird during the third regulatory sandbox cohort, host Alex sits down with Meijndert Jansberg (Energy Blocks) and Andries Metz (Amelander Energie Coöperatie) to explore The future of decentralised energy.Andries shares how the Ameland-based cooperative one of the first in the Netherlands, scaled to over 1,200 customers by funding solar parks through local participation and long-term reinvestment. Meijndert explains how Energy Blocks uses blockchain to open up energy investments, making it possible for individuals to co-invest in energy assets.The conversation dives into the contrast between bottom-up cooperatives and more scalable, finance-driven platforms, while unpacking concepts like energy sharing, tokenisation, and why access to local kilowatt-hours could matter more than financial returns.They also tackle the real challenges: regulation, the role of energy retailers, and the need for more professionalisation within cooperatives. With insights from across Europe, this episode offers a clear-eyed view of where decentralised energy stands—and what it will take to make it work.Participants;Andries metz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andries-metz/Meindert Jansberg:https://www.linkedin.com/in/meindertjansberg/Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/To find more about Amelander Energie Coöperatie: http://www.amelandenergie.nlDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.orgRead more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokens/mycompany/?viewAsMember=trueTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/Send us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

April 2, 2026Episode 12229 min

Episode 122: Powering Communities: Tokenized Energy in the EU Blockchain Sandbox Cohort 3

What happens when renewable energy meets tokenization and then runs straight into regulation? In this episode, the answer unfolds through a deep dive into one of Europe’s most forward-looking experiments: the EU Blockchain Regulatory Sandbox.Host Olivier Rikken is joined by Edgar Kampers (Co-Founder of Hypha Energy) and Johannes Wirtz (Partner at Bird & Bird) to unpack their hands-on experience participating in Cohort 3 of the Sandbox. Together with organizations like ABN AMRO, EnergyBlocks, Ameland Energy Corporation, and others, they explored a complex but increasingly relevant question: how can tokenization enable renewable energy communities to function more efficiently and stay compliant?Edgar breaks down how renewable energy communities are reshaping the energy system, from rooftop solar to shared local infrastructure like wind, batteries and EV charging. At the heart of it all is a new model: energy credits - tokenized representations of locally produced energy that can be distributed, traded, or even gifted within a community. The promise? Lower costs, reduced grid congestion and stronger local resilience.Johannes brings the legal lens, guiding listeners through the regulatory maze surrounding these tokens. Are they crypto-assets under MiCA? Do they qualify as asset-referenced tokens, e-money tokens or something else entirely? And how does the concept of a “limited network” exemption shape what’s possible without triggering heavy regulatory requirements?From micro-accounting via smart contracts to the practical realities of billing, governance and compliance, this episode connects the dots between technology, regulation and real-world energy use. It also highlights a key takeaway from the sandbox: innovation isn’t being stopped by regulation - but it does require careful design, ongoing dialogue and a willingness to navigate ambiguity.Participants:Edgar Kampers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edgarkampers/Johannes Wirtz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johannes-wirtz/Olivier Rikken: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivierrikken/More about Hypha Energy: https://hypha.energy/More about Bird & Bird: https://www.twobirds.com/enSend us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

February 10, 2026Episode 12128 min

Episode 121: ClearToken & the Future of Crypto Settlement: Clearinghouses, DVP & Digital Assets

What do 17th-century Dutch coffee houses, paper share certificates in wheelbarrows, and today’s digital asset markets all have in common? In this episode you'll find out, they’re all part of the same story: the evolution of financial market infrastructure.Hosts Jonny Fry and Alex Bausch are joined by Oliver Margolis, Head of Product at ClearToken, for a candid explanation of the unseen systems that make markets work: the pipes and plumbing most people never think about until something breaks. The birth of public companies, Lloyd’s of London, the role of clearinghouses, central securities depositories, and regulation, the conversation tracks how trust, risk, and settlement have evolved over centuries.Oliver explains how clearinghouses sit between counterparties to reduce risk, unlock capital, and prevent the “black swan” events that have repeatedly shaken the crypto industry. Using everyday examples, such as buying a coffee, this episode breaks down delivery versus payment (DVP), net settlement, and why pre-funding trades in crypto is a relic institutions can no longer afford.The episode also marks a major milestone in ClearToken’s journey. Fresh from UK regulatory approval, Jonny, Alex and Oliver discuss launching live operations with tens of thousands of trades on day one and becoming the first firm admitted to the Bank of England’s Digital Securities Sandbox. From tokenised bonds and digital gilts to the future role of AI in capital markets, the discussion goes well beyond crypto, and toward a world where any asset, from securities to energy, can be traded, settled, and reused efficiently.Participants:Oliver Margolis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivermargolis/Jonny Fry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnyfry/Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/Find out more about ClearToken: https://cleartoken.io/ Send us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

January 27, 2026Episode 12029 min

Episode 120: Turning Property Into Money: How TPX Is Tokenising Real Estate

In this episode of the 2Tokens Podcast, hosts Jonny Fry and Alex Bausch welcome back Antony Abell, CEO of TPX Property Exchanges, for a wide-ranging conversation that begins with a simple question and quickly opens into something much bigger: what if property itself could move like money?Recorded during a Masterclass final ceremony day, the discussion traces the evolution of tokenisation away from crypto speculation and toward its most powerful real-world application: real estate. Antony explains how TPX has spent years working with regulators, land registries, central banks, and governments to build a system that allows homeowners to effectively “IPO” their properties by fractionalising the legal title itself, not a fund, SPV, or proxy structure. The result is a model that turns one of the world’s most illiquid assets into something tradable, programmable, and globally interoperable.As the conversation unfolds, the group explores how this approach could solve the long-standing asset-rich, cash-poor problem faced by homeowners, while simultaneously opening the door for younger generations and global investors to access property ownership in entirely new ways. The episode moves between history and modern market structure, revealing that the idea of property-backed money is far from new. What’s changed is the technology that now allows it to operate at speed, with transparency, and within existing legal frameworks.Antony also shares TPX’s vision for an emerging asset-based economy, where real estate functions as inflation-resistant money and settles instantly across global payment rails. From family offices and institutional liquidity to sovereign legal frameworks and taxation, the discussion highlights why property tokenisation may represent one of the most significant shifts in financial infrastructure this generation will see.Participants:Antony Abell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonyabell/Jonny Fry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnyfry/Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/Find out more about TPX: https://www.tpx-global.com/#intro-heroSend us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

January 12, 2026Episode 11938 min

Episode 119: Tokenization in the Netherlands: Who Leads and What’s Next?

In this episode of the 2Tokens podcast, host Erich Schnoeckel (2Tokens) is joined at Osborne Clarke in Amsterdam by Johannes de Jong (Osborne Clarke) and Max Costet (Fireblocks) for an in-depth conversation on the future of tokenization in the Netherlands and Europe.Building on earlier work with AFME on the future of the European token economy, the discussion zooms in on the Dutch perspective: where the market stands today, what is already technically possible, and what is still holding large-scale adoption back. Johannes shares his regulatory and legal insights from years of working with crypto assets, MiCAR licensing, and financial regulators, while Max explains how institutional-grade digital asset infrastructure has matured and why technology is no longer the main bottleneck.Together, they reflect on the October 8th roundtable at De Nederlandsche Bank with regulators, ministries, law firms, and technology providers. Key themes include collaboration between public and private stakeholders, the role of regulators stepping “out of the ivory tower,” and the need for concrete use cases to move from discussion to action, such as issuing Dutch government bonds on a blockchain.The episode also explores:- Why the Netherlands has strong fundamentals to lead in tokenization- Lessons from countries like Luxembourg- Public vs. permissioned blockchains- Stablecoins, government bonds, and secondary markets- Legal hurdles, property law, and risk management- What the next concrete steps should be to make tokenization work at scaleParticipants:Erich Schnoeckel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erichschnoeckel/Johannes de Jong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johannes-de-jong-2926b211/Max Costet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximiliencostet/More info on Osborne Clarke: https://www.osborneclarke.com/nl/locations/nederland?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20380437317&gbraid=0AAAAADGG9vBvOi9ZVSQsDqB02d2BouEKr&gclid=CjwKCAiAjc7KBhBvEiwAE2BDOYE1Gd36uiLRTLgdpfBYMhDbecDFmfY0jN8NWtRp0h7yHaRaKDbcMxoC72gQAvD_BwEFireblocks: https://www.fireblocks.com/Send us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

December 17, 2025Episode 11836 min

Episode 118: Digital Energy Explained with Osborne Clarke: Tokenization, Data & Regulation

In this episode host Alex Bausch (2Tokens) sits down with Michel Chatelin and Joanne Zaaijer from Osborne Clarke for an in-depth conversation on digital energy, tokenization, and data sharing in Europe’s evolving energy landscape.Recorded during the Digital Energy Masterclass at Osborne Clarke’s Amsterdam office, this episode explores what “digital energy” really means. Michel explains how traditionally physical energy systems such as electricity grids, pipelines, meters etc. are being transformed by adding a critical data layer. This combination of physical infrastructure and digital data enables smarter grids, new flexibility services, and innovative community-based energy models.Joanne brings the data and privacy perspective, drawing on her extensive experience as a privacy and data protection lawyer. She explains GDPR, consent, and data sharing, explaining why data doesn’t need to be feared, and how carefully designed legal frameworks can actually enable innovation rather than block it. Together, the speakers explain why “data is the new gold,” and how lessons from sectors like healthcare and finance can help the energy sector move faster and more confidently.A major focus of the episode is tokenization in the energy sector. Michel shares insights from the European regulatory sandbox and the Power of the Many project on the island of Ameland, where locally produced energy, assets, and participation rights are tokenized to support peer-to-peer energy sharing. First within communities, and eventually between communities. The conversation highlights the difference between simple digitization and true digitalization of value, and why that distinction matters legally and economically.The episode also tackles big questions head-on:- Does regulation slow down innovation, or is lack of clarity the real issue?- How can Europe balance strong consumer protection with the need for faster energy transition?- What does the upcoming Energy Act mean for access to smart meter data, ownership, and consent?- And how do we make all of this simple enough for end users who ultimately just want lower bills and better services?In short, this episode offers a clear and practical look at how law, technology, and tokenization are coming together to shape digital energy in Europe.Participants: Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/Michel Chatelin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelchatelin-osborneclarke/Joanne Zaaijer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-zaaijer-9a4355b/More about Osborne Clarke Netherlands: https://www.osborneclarke.com/nl/locations/the-netherlands/amsterdamSend us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

December 3, 2025Episode 11730 min

Episode 117: Power to the People: Hypha Energy on How Tokenized Communities Are Reshaping Europe

In this episode of the 2Tokens Podcast, hosts Jos Röling and Alex Bausch welcome long-time contributor of the Energy Working Group: Edgar Kampers, co-founder of Hypha Energy. This episode is a lively conversation about the future of renewable energy communities in Europe.Together they have an honest and energetic exploration of why building these communities is so challenging today and why the timing for a new approach has never been better. Edgar explains how Hypha’s tokenized, DAO-inspired system can cut administrative burdens by more than 90%, simplify ownership and decision-making, and help residents meaningfully participate in their local energy future, without needing deep technical knowledge or endless community meetings.Jos and Alex push the conversation into the practical realities: how do you actually motivate people to engage with energy data they don’t care about? Can tokens really change consumer behavior? How do decentralized communities coexist with the massive DSOs that still control Europe’s energy infrastructure? Edgar shares his vision for community-driven ownership, blended financing models, and the social value of producing and consuming energy locally.The episode also looks ahead at Hypha Energy’s first pilots in Portugal, upcoming deployments in Norway, the Netherlands, and Poland, and the crucial role of partners already embedded in local ecosystems: municipalities, housing associations, consultants, and organizations like 2Tokens.If you’re curious about the intersection of tokenization, decentralization, and the future of local energy, this episode is absolutely worth a listen.Participants:Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/Jos Röling: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josroling/Edgar Kampers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edgarkampers/Learn more about Hypha Energy: www.hypha.energySend us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

November 10, 2025Episode 11627 min

Episode 116: Distro Energy: Empowering Communities Through Peer-to-Peer Trading

In this episode of the 2Tokens Podcast, hosts Jos Röling and Alex from 2Tokens sit down with Kennard Brandenburgh, representing Distro Energy, to explore how peer-to-peer energy trading and tokenization are driving the next wave of innovation in the energy sector.Kennard shares how Distro’s platform enables direct energy exchange between local producers and consumers, creating fairer pricing and encouraging communities to take control of their own energy use. The discussion dives into the technical backbone of Distro’s system, combining real-time metering data, AI-driven forecasting, and blockchain-based transaction settlement, and how these elements together help create energy tokenization and a more dynamic market model.This episode also discusses some of the biggest challenges in the energy transition, from market adoption and system change to the importance of collaboration between public and private partners. Together, they highlight how Europe can maintain its leadership in energy innovation by building a connected ecosystem that rewards transparency, sustainability, and shared value.Participants:Kennard Brandenburgh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kcbrandenburgh/Jos Röling: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josroling/Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/Send us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

October 28, 2025Episode 11532 min

Episode 115: Europe’s Tokenized Future: Finance, Energy, and Everything In Between

In this special episode of the 2Tokens Podcast, host Jonny Fry is joined by Coen ter Wal (Association for Financial Markets in Europe – AFME) and Meindert Jansberg (Catena / Energy Blocks) for a live discussion from Amsterdam, where the Dutch National Bank has convened experts to explore one of the hottest topics in finance: tokenization.This episode explores how distributed ledger technology (DLT) is transforming capital markets, from sovereign bond issuance to renewable energy financing, and how the Netherlands continues its long tradition of financial innovation. The guests discuss the growing interest of regulators, the role of banks in enabling digital assets, and the potential of tokenized bonds, stablecoins, and programmable money to close Europe’s mid-market funding gap.They also highlight how tokenization can unlock new investment opportunities for SMEs, increase efficiency, and reshape the way financial infrastructure operates, paving the way for a more open, data-driven, and composable financial system.Together, the trio explore:- Why tokenization matters for Europe’s financial future- How DLT could reshape SME funding and project finance- The evolving roles of banks, investors, and regulators in a tokenized economy- The interplay between stablecoins, tokenized deposits, and CBDCs- The macroeconomic implications of digital money adoptionLearn more about AFME: https://www.afme.eu/and Energy Blocks: https://www.energyblocks.nl/Check out the Digital Bytes blog: https://digitalbytes.substack.com/Participants:Jonny Fry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnyfry/Coen ter Wal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coenterwal/Meindert Jansberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meindertjansberg/Send us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

October 15, 2025Episode 11423 min

Episode 114: Fractal Energy on Battery Pooling and Grid Optimization

In this episode of the 2Tokens Podcast, Alex Bausch and Jos Röling, captain of the Power of the Many working group, welcome Fabien Bergier, CEO and co-founder of Fractal Energy, for a deep dive into the future of smart energy management and household flexibility.Fabien shares how Fractal Energy is transforming the way households use and share energy through intelligent battery management, AI-driven optimization, and secure cloud-based pooling. He explains how their Energy Management System (EMS) optimizes battery use in real time to reduce electricity bills, while also managing EV chargers, heat pumps, and solar inverters. The conversation explores why “prosumers” in the Netherlands, households with solar panels, are ideal early adopters, and how Fractal’s approach bridges individual households with national energy markets.They discuss the importance of cybersecurity and local data control, the role of virtual power plants (VPPs) in reducing grid congestion by up to 20 percent, and how energy flexibility can reshape consumer energy plans. Fabien also shares insights on connecting households into dynamic pools, creating community energy solutions, and enabling better market participation without requiring users to be energy experts.As the Netherlands adapts to new energy laws and decentralized energy sharing becomes more feasible, this episode highlights how technology, regulation, and digital energy solutions can create more resilient and community-driven energy systems.🔗 Learn more about Fractal Energy at https://fractalenergy.io/Participants:Fabien Berger: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabien-berger/?originalSubdomain=frJos Röling: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josroling/Alex Bausch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbausch/Send us Fan MailSupport the showDo you want to join one of the use cases? Contact us via mariana@2tokens.org Read more on our blog 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/news Follow us on LinkedIn 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/company/2tokensTwitter 👉 https://twitter.com/2tokens_org?s=20 Website 👉 https://www.2tokens.org/

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