21 Hats Podcast

Hosted by 21 Hats

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578

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Oct 2026

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About the show

The 21 Hats Podcast presents an authentic weekly conversation with small business owners who are remarkably willing to share what’s working for them and what isn’t. Unlike many business podcasts, which tend to talk to highly successful entrepreneurs whose struggles are in the past, the 21 Hats Podcast features a rotating cast of business owners who are still very much in the trenches fighting the good fight. Every week, our regulars gather to talk about the kinds of important issues many owners won’t even discuss behind closed doors: whether their businesses are as profitable as they should be, whether they are willing to give up some control to an investor in order to grow faster, why they had to lay off employees, how they wound up with way too much inventory, why they don’t have a succession plan, and even why they are concerned about their own mental health. Visit 21hats.com to hear all of our podcast episodes, read episode transcripts, and learn more. The show is produced by Jess Thoubboron, founder of Blank Word.

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60 recent

October 23, 202634 min

Dashboard: Could Your Business Run Without You?

This week, we welcome Tanya Ferguson, founder of ClearBrook AI Solutions , who helps small-business owners identify and fix operational problems they may not even realize they have. Tanya works primarily with businesses that have fewer than 20 employees and less than $5 million in revenue. Many of their owners have spent years figuring out how to make their businesses work, but they're so caught up in the day-to-day that they haven't had time to figure out how to make them work better. And when they finally delegate responsibilities to employees, they may just be shifting the burden to someone else.Tanya's approach starts not with technology but with questions. She talks to owners and employees to find out how work really gets done, where time and money are being wasted, and which problems can be solved through better processes, automation, or AI. As she puts it, applying AI to a messy process just gives you a faster mess.Perhaps most interestingly, Tanya has developed a specialty in helping owners whose businesses are so dependent on them that they can be difficult to sell. She explains how she identifies those dependencies, how she helps buyers and sellers address them, and why fixing those problems might even persuade an exhausted owner that it's worth hanging on to the business after all. This episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank .

October 20, 2026Episode 31550 min

We Want to 5X Our Business in Three Years

This week, David C. Barnett, Jennifer Kerhin, and Rob Levin compare notes on three very different approaches to growth. Dave, convinced that people are craving more personal connection in an increasingly digital world, is experimenting with an in-person conference. He's hoping the event will at least break even and, more importantly, help him attract consulting clients. Jennifer, meanwhile, is investing in leadership training to increase her company's capacity, but she's also wary of growing too quickly. A few years ago, her company grew 145 percent in a single year. “That almost killed all of us,” she says. And Rob has hired a consultant to develop a marketing strategy that he hopes will help him quintuple his business in just three years. “The market is ready for what we do,” he says. Along the way, the owners also discuss why charging more can make an event more attractive, what makes a business partnership work, why Jennifer is still reluctant to launch her next big idea, and where they turn for support when facing high-stakes decisions. “Well, I make my decisions with ChatGPT now,” says Dave. “Does that count?” The episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank . Show Notes: Here's more information about Dave's conference, SmallBizRIOT . Get a free trial of the 21 Hats Morning Report .

October 16, 202646 min

Dashboard: AI Is Moving Fast. Why Aren’t Businesses?

I don't know any traditional business owner who has devoted more time and energy to figuring out what AI can do for small businesses than Alan Pentz. He's built his own AI agents, experimented with the latest models, and even started a business to help other owners put the technology to work. But here's the thing: Even Alan is struggling to keep up with how quickly AI is evolving. And when I ask him what other business owners should be doing, he doesn't have a great answer.The problem, as Alan sees it, is that most owners don't have the time—or the inclination—to learn how to build sophisticated AI tools themselves. And there aren't many qualified firms available to build those tools for them. For a while, Alan thought he could help fill that gap by consulting with individual owners. But he soon realized that developing custom solutions for every business wasn't a model he could scale. Now he's pursuing a different strategy with his latest venture, Rustproof.aI. But what if the real solution is already taking shape?In this episode, Alan and I discuss the emerging generation of personal AI agents, including Muse, that can take actions on our behalf. They're still limited, but could we be approaching a time when business owners can simply tell an AI agent what they want to accomplish and let the agent figure out how to make it happen? This episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank .

October 13, 2026Episode 31448 min

This Isn’t Working. Is It Time to Give Up?

This week, Jay Goltz, Lena McGuire, and Jaci Russo tackle three challenges that business owners face, starting with a question that can be especially painful: How do you know when it’s time to give up? The question is prompted by an article written by the founder of an online pillowcase business who has concluded that Big Tech, soaring advertising costs, and changes to privacy rules have made it all but impossible to build a profitable brand online. Jay, Lena, and Jaci agree that the obstacles are real, but they’re not convinced that they fully explain the entrepreneur’s failure to get traction. Nor are they sure she should throw in the towel. In fact, they think she may have a promising product and offer some suggestions, but, says Jay, “It doesn't sound like she's got the big tenacity gene that is necessary to be in business.” Next we turn to a Boston-area ice cream shop that got fed up with customers abusing its mostly teenage employees and posted a blistering Facebook message telling customers, in all caps, “STOP YELLING AT MY [FREAKIN’] EMPLOYEES”—except it didn’t say freakin’. The post went viral, winning more than 230,000 likes and widespread praise. But was it smart business? Jay, Lena, and Jaci are all in favor of standing up for employees, but they have serious doubts about this particular approach. Plus: Are family and medical leave programs a burden on small businesses—or a benefit that helps them compete for employees? And if our three owners could permanently take off one of the 21 hats business owners have to wear, which hat would it be? The episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank . Show notes: Here’s more information about Jaci’s Women’s Summit at Sea . Get a free trial of the 21 Hats Morning Report . If you like what you hear on the 21 Hats Podcast, please consider joining our Founding Member mastermind .

October 9, 202644 min

Dashboard: The Numbers Said Don’t Do It. She Did It Anyway.

This week, we talk to Leisa Peterson, who has spent much of her career thinking about money, risk, and the ways our emotions can interfere with financial decisions. So when Peterson and her family decided to launch The Gear Project, a peer-to-peer marketplace for used outdoor equipment, you might have expected her to proceed with unusual discipline and caution. And she did—right up to the point where the numbers started telling her that maybe they shouldn’t launch at all.As Peterson built out her financial projections, she kept discovering costs she hadn’t anticipated. The margins got thinner. The transaction volume required to make the business work got higher. She was ready to walk away. Her husband, daughter, and son-in-law wanted to keep going. So they did. Now, just weeks after launching, Peterson is deep in the part of entrepreneurship no spreadsheet can fully anticipate: fixing shipping problems, refunding incorrectly collected sales taxes, changing developers, manually approving thousands of listings, and discovering which of the warnings she heard before launch were right—and which weren’t.Along the way, she’s also confronting something more personal: whether a lifetime spent protecting herself from financial risk may have kept her from taking some risks worth taking. This episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank .

October 6, 2026Episode 31251 min

We Had to Become an AI-First Company

This week, we welcome a new regular to the podcast team, Rob Levin, co-founder of WorkBetterNow. I first met Rob more than 20 years ago, when we were both experiencing the decline of print media. I was an editor at Inc. magazine, and Rob had started a regional publication for business owners called The New York Enterprise Report . “Starting a print publication in 2003 was not one of the smartest things I've done,” Rob says. But he learned from that experience. In 2018, Rob and a partner started WorkBetterNow, which helps American businesses hire Latin American talent. The business took off during the pandemic and has continued to grow rapidly. But in recent years, Rob began to see another disruption looming. If artificial intelligence can increasingly perform the kinds of tasks his company supplies people to do, what happens to WorkBetterNow? Rob tells Sarah Segal and Jaci Russo how seriously he took that question, what he decided his company needed to become, and how he’s trying to position WorkBetterNow for whatever comes next. We also talk about why referrals are no longer enough to sustain the company’s growth, what went wrong when Rob tried to build an outside sales force, and what he’s learned about managing remote workers. Plus, in another Beyond Small segment brought to you by Grasshopper Bank , Sarah, Jaci, and Rob compare how they manage the cash they keep on hand—and Jaci explains why she’s sleeping better since adopting Profit First earlier this year. Rob Levin’s book is called The New Talent Playbook . Get a free trial of the 21 Hats Morning Report . There is one seat left for the 21 Hats Succession Solutions Workshop .

October 2, 202639 min

Dashboard: Finance Your Business Without Taking on Debt or Investors

Most business owners know the usual ways to finance a startup or acquisition: savings, investors, bank loans, SBA loans. But there’s another option that many owners have never considered—even though Jeremy Ames says his company, Guidant Financial, has helped arrange more than 35,000 of these transactions. It’s called ROBS financing—Rollovers for Business Startups—and it allows entrepreneurs to use money they’ve accumulated in retirement accounts to start or buy a business without taking a taxable distribution and, perhaps most notably, without taking out a loan. There’s no debt and no monthly loan payment. Instead, the owner’s retirement plan buys stock in the business.In this 21 Hats Dashboard, Ames explains how the structure works, why some owners use it to avoid debt while others combine it with SBA financing to buy a larger business, and what it costs to set up and maintain. He also addresses the tradeoffs: The money is no longer invested in stocks or mutual funds; it’s invested in your company, which means you’re betting some of your retirement savings on your ability to build a successful business.We discuss the questions owners should ask before making that bet, including how ROBS compares with conventional financing, what happens if the business fails, why the IRS has scrutinized these transactions, and why Ames believes anyone considering one should consult an independent adviser. The episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank .

September 29, 2026Episode 31248 min

Maybe AI Won’t Destroy My Business

This week, Paul Downs, Jaci Russo, and Sarah Segal revisit a question that came up on the podcast more than a year ago: Is artificial intelligence going to doom professional service firms like Jaci’s branding agency and Sarah’s PR firm? So far, both Jaci and Sarah are feeling pretty good about their prospects. In fact, they’re seeing changes in the market that suggest AI may be helping rather than undermining their businesses. Paul, meanwhile, has encountered a different kind of AI mystery. For years, his custom conference table business has depended heavily on people finding him through Google. Recently, he discovered that his organic search traffic has fallen about 35 percent. That sounds alarming—except that his business is doing great. Paul says his tables are selling like “hotcakes,” and he’s backlogged into February. So what exactly is happening when traffic falls but sales keep growing? Plus: In our latest Beyond Small segment, sponsored by Grasshopper Bank , Paul, Jaci, and Sarah talk about the financial processes they still insist on doing manually—even when technology could probably do more of the work for them. In each case, part of the reason is that doing the work themselves gives them a view into their operations that they don’t want to lose. As Sarah puts it, while she already knows how to handle public relations, “I am learning how to be a business owner every day.” Show Notes: Here’s the episode where Alan Pentz predicted that professional service agencies are doomed . Get a free trial of the 21 Hats Morning Report . There are three seats left for the 21 Hats Succession Solutions Workshop .

September 25, 202630 min

Dashboard: Do You Care What Happens to Your Business After You Sell It?

This week, Lou Mosca raises a question that business owners may not spend enough time thinking about before they sell the business: Once you’ve gotten the price you want, how much do you care what happens to the business? Lou, who owns the consulting firm American Management Services, has spent decades working with owner-operated businesses. More recently, he’s also been trying to work with private equity firms whose portfolio companies need help improving their performance. And that has given him an increasingly close look at what can happen when an owner sells to private equity.As Lou sees it, private equity can absolutely be the right exit for some owners. But he also thinks owners need to understand that getting a great price doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be happy with what comes next. Lou shares some cautionary stories and offers practical advice for owners considering a PE offer—especially those who do care about what happens to their employees, their culture, and the business they built. The episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank .

September 22, 2026Episode 31146 min

Can an Owner Really Know What’s Going On?

This week, Jay Goltz and William Vanderbloemen tackle a problem that business owners may associate with big companies: What happens when an employee becomes convinced that his or her manager is making bad decisions, but going through normal channels just isn’t working? Jay says he absolutely wants employees to speak up, even if that means going over a manager’s head. William agrees that there are times when an employee has to escalate a problem. But as the conversation unfolds, both acknowledge something that can be easy for an owner to underestimate: Speaking up can feel extraordinarily risky to employees. And how is that information going to surface then? And in our latest Beyond Small segment, Jay and William discuss what, if anything, another bank could offer that would persuade them to move their business—and why both have grown wary of what happens when smaller banks get swallowed by bigger banks. Plus: How should owners think about the forecast of a prominent economics group that a severe downturn is likely to hit in 2030? And William talks about how his wife’s cancer diagnosis has changed the way he thinks about time, work, and succession. As one of his older golf partners put it, life is like a roll of toilet paper: “It goes really fast at the end.” Show Notes: Read more about ITR Economics’ Great Depression forecast for 2030 . Get a free trial of the 21 Hats Morning Report . Learn more about the 21 Hats Succession Solutions Workshop .

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