Listen in on conversations coming out of Northwestern University's Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences. We will have discussions for students with alumni around hot topics in careers, alumni profiles for students to learn more about life with an arts and sciences degree, and explore the ins and outs of different career paths through the Waldron Student-Alumni Connections Program. Visit weinberg.northwestern.edu and search Waldron for more information!
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May 19, 202619 min
Waldron Career Conversation w/ Bonnie Wong '04 & Preena Shroff '26
*]:pointer-events-auto R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="78ed7aa7-b197-46f2-b487-7774eb26dacc" data-turn-id-container="78ed7aa7-b197-46f2-b487-7774eb26dacc" data-testid="conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> *]:pointer-events-auto R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id= "request-6a076382-d620-83ea-ad11-16c3882f072b-0" data-turn-id-container= "request-6a076382-d620-83ea-ad11-16c3882f072b-0" data-testid= "conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> In this episode, Weinberg alum Bonnie Wong reflects on how her Northwestern education in philosophy and mathematics shaped her career in healthcare strategy by teaching her intellectual rigor, precise communication, analytical thinking, and resilience. She discusses her nonlinear path from law to business to population health, explaining how liberal arts skills helped her connect data, policy, finance, and human-centered problem-solving across roles at Humana, Oscar, and Molina Healthcare. Bonnie also shares how Northwestern taught her to work through challenges, take intellectual risks, seek support, and view setbacks as part of building a meaningful career.
March 11, 202622 min
Waldron Career Conversation w/ Karen Smith '94 & Abigail Thomas '26
In this episode of the Weinberg in the World podcast, student host Abigail Thomas '26 sits down with Northwestern alum Karen Smith '94 to explore how an early cognitive science degree shaped Karen's career and life. Karen reflects on discovering cognitive science in its early days, launching into the tech boom to design early digital learning systems, and later channeling her interdisciplinary background into writing, podcasting, and a decade-long positive‑psychology journaling practice. She shares advice for current students—embrace curiosity, explore campus and Chicago, stay open to changing paths, and trust that a Northwestern education provides adaptable, lifelong tools for whatever comes next. Transcript Abigail Welcome to the Weinberg in the World Podcast, where we explore the value of interdisciplinary liberal arts education in today's complex world. My name is Abigail, and I'm your student host of this special episode of the podcast. I'm a senior at Northwestern majoring in cognitive science and minoring in data science, and I'm looking forward to learning more about how your academic experience is connected to your professional journey and how your cognitive science background supports the work you do. Today I'm excited to be speaking with Karen Smith. Thank you, Karen, for taking the time to speak with me today. Karen Thank you for having me. Abigail To start us off today, I'm wondering if you can tell us more about your time at Northwestern as an undergraduate. What did you study? What were the impactful experiences for you that led you to your current career path? Karen I received a cognitive science degree in 1994. The lore or the legend is that we were the second graduating class. I'm not sure I haven't fact-checked that. but I know that I graduated with just two or three others with our degree. I understand that the cognitive science program has grown, so I think that's fantastic. I found cognitive science because one of those other two or three was a friend of mine, and I was complaining to him about how to choose a path when I found a lot of college classes really interesting, but I kind of had the sense that I couldn't choose just one. there wasn't one thing. I was dabbling with the idea of doing a sociology major. And my father, who was a business consultant, a technology and business consultant, asked me once as I was just exploring this at home on a break, there aren't very many sociologists out in the world. I don't see a lot of people saying, you know, hello, hi, I'm A sociologist. His point just being that if I were to be really interested in that path, I might need to have some idea of what else I wanted to do or to be planning to pursue a career in academia, which had never really occurred to me and wasn't what I found interesting. I thought sociology was interesting because we were studying people and cultures and how people do things in groups. That I found plenty interesting, but it wasn't so interesting that I was sure. And then the friend mentioned, you should think about this new interdisciplinary program 'cause it lets you do a little bit of this and a little bit of that. So I started looking into cognitive science and realized that the classes I already took were already quite applicable to the required courses for the degree. And then I looked at what else I should take. I think I was, it was first or second. quarter sophomore year. So I still had 2 1/2 years plus to look at. And everything in the list was something I wanted to take. Like it was already on my radar screen or it was new on my radar screen. I was like, are you kidding? I could take classes like this. is perfect. So that interdisciplinary sense is what appealed to me back then. I don't know if it's the same for folks today. Abigail Yeah, definitely. I find it, I also chose it because I just loved how interdisciplinary it was and how you could take classes from different fields and still be able to apply that to my major. So that definitely still holds true. Karen Yeah, wonderful. Well, what I did with my degree, I graduated into the early, early phases of the technology boom. And you know, we've been in boom and bust cycles. And so part of my career story includes both. But I graduated into an atmosphere where we were beginning to use technology to solve all kinds of problems that previously we had to do manually. We had to do in person with people, very labor and time intensive. And I worked at what is now Accenture, but was then Anderson Consulting. And my job was to build learning systems for corporate clients. So I was teaching adults how to do their job using technology to mediate it instead of having to create a course that was then led by an instructor and conducted in person on site somewhere, which was the old model of training. And that's how all corporate training had been done till then. So it was a pretty exciting time to launch out into that. But a lot of the technology tools we used were very early days. Like I remember waiting for videos to compress. and waiting for hours and hours for videos to compress and then finding that the edit had gone poorly and that we had to do it over. And things that today are kind of comical since we can use our phones to just go out and do an on the street interview with someone and have it on the internet in minutes or even live stream. These things were just not even, like we hadn't even imagined where we were going to go with this technology. So There were inconveniences, but it was also tremendously interesting because there was just so much to consider. And a lot of the times we needed to write new software to do the things we wanted to do. There now are authoring tools and platforms that you can kind of plop your training content into and sort of publish without needing a lot of technology background. Back then, we were doing things with teams of five and six. developers, plus I was on the design side, designing the learning experience and then management and content creators and things like that. I'm sure it's quite different now, but as I mentioned, the boom and bust cycle, or the bust and boom cycle, led to, it was the early 2000s, the technology, the.com bubble burst is how history tends to refer to that. And companies like mine did massive layoffs that included me. That time coincided with when my husband and I were starting our family. And so it led me to just kind of reevaluate a lot of things and choose to take a step back for a while, which has been great for myself, but it meant that I wasn't out there doing the things that I had been doing. So I don't have as good a perspective on how we're using those technology tools in these last 20 years. But for a time in the 90s, it was a fascinating and interesting way to apply my degree. And I was one of the only people I knew who did in my work what I studied in my undergrad degree. Everyone else was like a political science major who's now writing code or what else, like a anthropology major who was one of my co-designers on my team, things like that. Abigail Yeah, that's really interesting. I was just wondering, like going based off of having something you learn applied to your work experience, are there other classes or experiences specifically at Northwestern that ended up being more valuable than you realized at the time? Karen I certainly appreciate the computer science classes I took, even though my job never required me personally to write code. And I don't today choose that as a way to spend my time either. Even when I'm just like dabbling with my own personal projects, I find some of the code aspects aggravating. And it's one of the places where I'm most comfortable with the AI revolution because frankly, These are things that I feel like I should be able to get my head around, but I can't get my website designed to look the way I want it to. So if an AI bot can do it for me, that would be great. I would love that. But the underpinning of just understanding some of how technology systems work and a lot of the, I'm not sure I can put this into words very well, but the way when you're trying to write a computer program, you have to think both logically, but also you have to think divergently, right? You have to think in order. This has to happen, then that. This has to happen, then that. You have to do a lot of the dependencies and understanding what needs to come first and what needs to come later. But you also have to be prepared for things that are way outside the realm of what you might have expected. So you have to expect someone's going to use your computer system in a sideways way. And so you have to be prepared and to be able to think about those things differently. And I for sure wouldn't have had as much facility with that had I not taken, it wasn't a million, but I probably took, I don't know, four or five computer science courses in the course of getting my cognitive science degree. And I feel like each one just contributed to this ability to think in several different flexible ways and to break a problem down out into even just, planning a bake sale or, trying to do something completely, every day out in the real world, being able to know, oh, if we don't come up with a language for the flyers first, we won't have anything to put on the flyers. If we don't, we can't give it to the person to use Canva to go make the flyers for us if we don't have all the wording written, and things like that. I find it's not that these skills don't exist in others, but sometimes they're like overlooked. Folks don't maybe think through things in a process-based way. And I believe, it's been some time, but I believe that a lot of that came from some of this more technical work that I did while in undergrad. Abigail Yeah, definitely. Thank you. I saw that you worked in different industries after leaving Anderson or Accenture at that time. How has your cognitive science degree prepared you for taking on those different roles? Karen So the interdisciplinary aspects, which I found so appealing when first entering cognitive science, I feel like they continue to play in different ways today. So today, My work is a mixture of writing, working on a podcast, although germination stage, not yet launched. I do volunteer work that I came into through parenting, but I continue on through because I so value the importance of the role peer-to-peer support plays in how humans learn, which is something, of course, when studying cognitive science is where I learned that. And so I've found that all of these aspects kind of play together really well. Writing isn't something I always knew I wanted to do, but it has ended up being something that I'm really passionate about. And what I write about is anything, everything, you know, all kinds of things. And that kind of open mind, you know, kind of Curiosity has some of its origins in cognitive science. Abigail And can you give an example of what you're writing or what you're working on currently? Karen Yeah, the writing that I do, it's a passion project that I'm looking to turn into a book, but the book has to come out of my head and I'm still in the middle of that process. But years ago, at the beginning of 2017, I'm a person who occasionally does some wild and crazy New Year's resolutions. So my 2017 New Year's resolution was to try this writing exercise a friend of mine was doing, where every day she wrote down three good things. So 3 good things that she's done or experienced or witnessed, participated in, observed. And so I started on that day and I said, you know, this sounds like a good idea. And she described it as being really positive for her mental health. Said, hey, who doesn't need that? So I began that day and I have not stopped. And it is 2026. So this is my 10th year every day writing about 3 good things. I call it my best things today. That's the hashtag I use. And I publish it on Substack with my Substack is called the inside of my brain, which is just a bit of a joke about how I wish I could just like let someone have a peek inside. So you'd get some sense of like, oh, I'm really curious. I've got a lot of thoughts about many different things. It'd be simpler if you could just get inside and then I wouldn't have to work so hard to express it or figure out how to put it into words. So later, I learned about the research that supported what I was doing. It wasn't that I went into it knowing about the field of positive psychology and the research out of, mostly it started at University of Pennsylvania and a professor named Martin Seligman. But when I did find out, it was such an interesting connection of, his research began out of his desire to not only focus on psychological problems people have, but also the ways positive psychology works. Like what's good about how human minds work and what do we think about and how do we, how can we influence how we think and what we, how we feel about the world? And so as I, delved into, I'm particularly in the middle of it with this book project, I'm like astonished at how this research seems to almost have been done as though it had me in mind. Like I'm just going to find it all along. Abigail Wow, that's really great. Just finding like an opportunity that totally matches with you. Karen Yeah, yeah. And all because this friend mentioned She did this thing, and I just kind of got the wild idea. And once I began writing like this, it just, it is a really lovely way to write, and it's a really lovely thing. I do it at the end of the day. I'm already a night owl, so it's like not a big deal for me to spend 30 minutes at 8 or 9 P.m. writing out three good things from today. And of course, cell phone tech has made it so that my camera roll is part of how I process the day, so I'm visually processing it, like, oh, what did I see? What did I, what really struck me? Or what did I, how adorable was my cat laying on the cushion back here? You know, things like that. And then it'll, as I write, it will take me in all kinds of directions, which has led me to digging into more research on, you know, how we think and learn and why do we, when we're struggling, like what resources are available to us, both inside ourselves, but also in this field of positive psychology. Like what recent research have we seen that can help and things like that, which are completely unexpected benefits? I had no idea. Abigail Yeah, definitely. That sounds really cool. I'll have to look into that. Karen Yeah. It's also a practice literally any person can do because it doesn't require any special materials. You don't actually have to write it down. And the research that supports it talks about how just spending time thinking about good things, it's a sort of gratitude adjacent type of practice. But what you're doing is you're switching your mind from any kind of rumination or, you know, like anxiety spirals would be another way of saying it, into a life review kind of perspective. So instead of ruminating on the dumb thing you said to somebody this morning, you're looking at, more generally like, I had a really interesting conversation with that lady at the line at the pharmacy. one day I did, I had this great conversation about feeding the squirrels with this little old lady who, I might otherwise have nothing in common with, but we bonded over this very small thing that we both did. which was, I totally, I put peanuts out for them. And she's like, I do too. I sit and I watch them. And connecting with other people like that is, one of the joys of life. It doesn't have to be forever. Like I don't have to become this lady's best friend or, you know, have anything further. But having that point person to person connection and that human to human interaction is part of where we get meaning. I am convinced. So. This project has helped me put even more of that into context and helped me, a person who's on the introverted side and is maybe more reserved and wouldn't normally have conversations with someone in line at the pharmacy, to be more open to some of those things because I know that they benefit me so much. Abigail Yeah, definitely. And it's also great to be able to look back within that 10 years of journaling that you've done and be able to look back and see, oh, that happened today. So that's really great. Hasn't ever come up in one of your positive three minutes. Karen I am sure it has, partly because not only am I a graduate, I married a graduate who I met sometime in that period and our daughter recently graduated. And so I haven't done the search, but I would love to, now that I've got the idea, to try to figure out how many, how frequently. I sometimes use kind of loose language in terms of family members and things, specific things related to like their educations and things in terms, you know, trying to maintain a semblance of this is my writing, not theirs, and to, you know, be respectful of boundaries. But I am positive I would regularly mention like where I am, and the joy of being with your child who's now in the educational environment that you had so much good result from and so many fulfilling experiences in, that was quite something. So. Abigail Yeah. And I was just wondering, Is there anything you'd recommend someone do before graduating? Like what experiences they should have at Northwestern before graduating? Karen That is a good question. I think if you haven't hunted down the Shakespeare Garden, every student should. Something I did not take advantage of, but my daughter did when she was at Northwestern is the open nights at the observatory. So the astronomy department runs, I think once a month, an evening program that's free for students and probably for the community because Northwestern is a college that very much sits inside the city of Evanston and is a community partner in that way. So the astronomy program is pretty cool. I wish I had. I think I just, we didn't have the internet as you can imagine. And so I didn't have an easy way to like get a list of all the interesting things to do. So those two things on campus, for sure, I'm not sure that I can say, for someone who's not from the Chicago area and plans to move away from the Chicago area after graduation, by all means, take advantage of being so close to such a unique and interesting city. Chicago is one of the best, and it is not on everyone's list of places to go. because it isn't on the coasts or filled with like Washington, DC with all the monuments and the, national treasures, but Chicago is filled with treasures. I particularly recommend doing a Chicago Architectural Foundation river cruise because that's always, it's my favorite activity to take someone who's not from Chicago on. So it doesn't matter that I've, you know, done them like 8 or 10 times. It's always fun. It's always interesting each Docent does a different talk. They talk about different buildings or historical moments in the city. So that one's high on my list of recommendations. Abigail Yeah, definitely. Just taking advantage of the space we're in and also the surrounding city. I've never gone into the free nights of the astronomy observatory building, so I'll definitely check that out. Karen Yeah. Abigail And to just close us out today, I have one more question for you. What do you wish you could tell yourself when you were in my shoes? Karen I wish I feel like this is a point where I could have wisdom, and I'm not sure I do. What I have is encouragement that your Northwestern undergrad education has given you a phenomenal set of tools, most of which you still don't quite even know what they are, you know, that that the things we learn in college aren't always readily apparent. And while I did do what I studied in college as a profession for some time, it's not a requirement. It doesn't have to be perfectly in line. And frankly, everyone should take advantage of the fact that a Northwestern education is a rounded, well-formed thing and that pivoting around or moving with career goals as they shift for yourself or for reasons beyond you, like say, for instance, the AI takeover of computer science and the way that that's impacting young software engineers graduating today. Follow what your instincts are telling you and don't be afraid to make a change because your education is going to be a resource that you can always lean on. Don't be worried about that. Abigail Thank you. Yeah, that's really helpful for me to consider. Thank you for the advice. And thank you for joining us today. Karen Well, thank you. I so appreciate being invited. Abigail Yeah. Thank you for listening to this special episode of the Weinberg in the World podcast. We hope you have a great day and go Cats. Karen Go Cats.
February 24, 202632 min
Waldron Career Conversation w/ Zifan Wang '29 & Robert Sevim '97
In this episode of the Weinberg in the World podcast, Zifan Wang '29 interviews alumnus Robert Sevim '97 about how his interdisciplinary studies and adaptability shaped his journey to a career in real estate. Sevim emphasizes emotional intelligence, exploration, and building real‑world exposure, advising students to focus on growth, stay curious, and trust that clarity about career paths will come with time.
January 6, 202614 min
Waldron Career Conversation with Olyvia Chinchilla '18 & Leonie Bahanuzi '27
In this episode of the Weinberg in the World podcast, Olyvia Chinchilla '18 shares how early experiences (from studying abroad in Poland to working with a Stanford-affiliated nonprofit) shaped her passion for economics, social justice, and empathy-driven research. Olyvia reflects on the challenges and rewards of creating change, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, framing conversations, and seeing people beyond statistics. Her career journey spans teaching, global research, and policy analysis. Transcript: Leonie: How did your career begin, and what were your career goals coming out of undergrad? Olyvia: Well, I believe I mentioned while I was at Northwestern, I had been in the reserve officer training course, I had been planning to go into the Navy, and that ended up not panning out because of a few athletic injuries. But earlier in my time at Northwestern, I believe it was the summer of my sophomore year, I studied abroad. And I was studying in Poland and it was my first time actually being out of the country, so it was super exciting. And I was just super excited also to explore Poland because my mom is originally from Poland. So it was just this really amazing moment. And I remember going into that program not being able to fully form sentences, to then leaving the program a few weeks later and literally just talking to my friends in the program in Polish as we tried to navigate the city. And I owed a lot of that to one of the instructors there at the program. So she spoke Polish the whole time, but she was so patient whenever we couldn't get it or we didn't understand or there's a translation error. And I think in that moment, my passion for learning was melded with my... I had this vision of perhaps using that to then also teach. So I had this idea, it stuck in the back of my mind, "Oh, maybe I could take a year off and teach or teach down the road." I did not take a year off, I went back to Northwestern, but I was at a career fair later. And one of the first people I ran into was a national teaching organization. And so that, again, kind of stoked that thought in my mind. And I had planned to actually teach for that program I got accepted, but then I took a year off actually to have a medical procedure following one of the athletic injuries. And when I took that year off, I'm like, "I'll just go to San Francisco for a few months and then Australia for the rest of that year." That was my plan to travel as I recovered. But when I got to San Francisco, I ended up getting in touch through the Northwestern network with a nonprofit based out of Stanford University, so they were sponsored by Stanford. And it was perfect because it melded my interest in teaching because they had a large educational component in the program for fifth through 12th grade students. And then there was also a significant amount of research being conducted by all of the people at the institution. So it was such, I think, a perfect blend for me because then I got to teach as well as do a lot of research for the program. And I actually ended up researching five continents, or I should say four. I didn't go to the last one, but I definitely traveled the whole world doing that research. So it was quite exciting. Leonie: Wow. What subjects were you teaching? Olyvia: So the program was structured so that people could focus on their specialties in teaching and research. So I was focused on economic and social policy, and I had colleagues that worked on immigration more specifically, more specifically on cybersecurity, technology issues. I did cover some of technology like AI issues where it met with economics. So I say I covered a lot of issues, but my specialty was always coming at it from an economic and social perspective. Leonie: And then I assume the research you were doing was related to economic policy? Olyvia: Yes, yes. Policy, but I would say also some of the societal and ethical questions that come up along with policymaking as well as just how communities work and operate. So for example, when we were studying immigration, we were also interviewing a lot of local businesses on the US-Mexico border. We talked with a lot of locals, nonprofits, immigration advocates. So it was kind of like a 360-degree look, but I was always the one who brought that economic knowledge and thought a lot about a lot of social issues too. So that's why several years later, I actually went to London to get a master's in political sociology. So that politics and society part, I think was definitely an element along with the economics. Leonie: Yeah. And you kind of touched on this earlier when you were speaking, but you can expand on it now. What was your motivation for going into this field? Olyvia: So I think I've always just been really fascinated with how people think and how people also are affected by different structures. And that's where the economics piece comes in because economics, of course, impacts different people differently, impacts different communities differently based on how the policies are structured. So I, for almost as long as I can remember, have been interested in economics. I remember as a 12-year-old, I read Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, and it was a really long book, but at that age, I was still really fascinated by it. So I've always just had that interest, how money interacts with people. But as I've went along, and definitely the role I was in really opened myself to thinking even more about a lot of the ways in which money and economics also creates wealth disparities, racial disparities, disparities for other minorities, like gender groups. So I feel like all of that, my thought and motivation has evolved quite a bit, I will say, but I think that as I've come along in my career, I've really, as I've just talked to so many people across the entire world, whether it's the communities in Colombia that are still recovering from drug trafficking or whether it's in Iceland talking to different police and then social groups or Portugal as they're working on drug decriminalization, and then seeing that in San Francisco as well in the criminal justice system, just having all of these conversations has really made me really just be motivated to see how we can create the best world for marginalized groups. Leonie: Yeah. And then along those lines, what has been the most rewarding and the most challenging aspect of your job? Olyvia: So for one, for teaching, it was incredibly rewarding to be able to work with students and to see them understand something. And I think it felt to me a little bit of a puzzle when they didn't as well, how's the best way you can communicate, what's the best way to present a topic? And what I found actually, which was interesting to me with teaching was that oftentimes the way I would structure a lesson to start would actually be the exact opposite of how I would end up teaching it. So I would perhaps structure it linearly, and then I compared it to pulling a plastic bag inside out. You would take something from the middle of that linear story and move it to the beginning and switch things around because I think the way that we actually think is often different than the way that we're tempted to explain things. So working with that jigsaw puzzle of how to best explain things was also very fascinating. And I think it's also inspired a lot of my thought process about even as I move forward with potentially moving more into policy implementation or other work and policy, definitely that experience will shape that moving forward because I find how we frame conversations around social policymaking really makes a big difference in terms of how it's understood, how it's received, even how people access the program, for example. There was a study I found very fascinating that was conducted, I believe it was by the University of Minnesota economists. And what they found was that even if they sent a letter in the mail to underprivileged students saying, "Hey, you qualify for this scholarship," but it was actually the same sort of funding they would get anyway just based on their need status, students were more likely to apply for that program. And so I think things like that are really fascinating where we're framing and conversation, thinking about how people think, not just students, but people broadly really does have a big impact on policy. So I think it was very just amazing and fulfilling to actually have that opportunity to grapple with that. But I think also even just the idea of stepping into a space where you're actively envisioning, researching, working towards creating a better world was very fulfilling. On the flip side, I think it is the same thing that's rewarding in that regards is also sometimes one of the challenges that I think definitely as someone who I really aspire to be a changemaker, and I think that that's sometimes you're constantly learning, constantly thinking. And I think sometimes it's easy to... It's challenging, I should say. It's easy to get burnt out or it's easy to perhaps work too hard maybe. But I would say, for example, even just some of the interviews that we conducted with people were challenging even to talk to unhoused people in the city or to talk to people in poverty in Aspen, Colorado when we were studying poverty there, or to interview people that had fled from Gaza and to hear their stories, all of those were definitely very emotionally challenging stories. And I think to meet people in that space, you have to give out a certain amount of empathy and understanding, even if it's for research purposes. And I think just navigating that balance was challenging in its own way. Leonie: Definitely. I think the point about balance is a really good one. I think being able to incorporate empathy into research is a very critical skill that I think sometimes is lacking. So I really do appreciate that point. And based on your vast experiences, how has your mindset towards your career evolved over time? Olyvia: It's interesting because I guess when I was younger, maybe a teenager, I was like, "Oh, A, B, C." And then when I was at Northwestern and it was like, "Well, you do this, and then that, and then this, and it's maybe not quite as linear as the alphabet, but it's point A, B, C." And so you kind of move forward. I think more recently I've come to realize that there's, and this has been a recurring lesson actually. It's not just now, but I would say when I left the military, for example, that was a lesson I was like, "There's many routes to the same destination. If service is one of my goals, there's many ways to serve, even if it's not in the military." Nowadays, I'm thinking about the fact that I stayed in San Francisco many years longer than I had expected. I was supposed to stay for three months, it became three years, six years, and counting at the moment. So I think one of the things I really realized is that sometimes life takes you in very different directions than you would've expected, and that's the same with your career. I think that definitely can be a challenge to be patient and understanding with the evolution that takes place, but definitely the experiences may be just as fulfilling on a very different route than what you had envisioned. Leonie: Yeah. Bringing us back to our Northwestern connection, are there any moments in your career that reminded you of CORE connected you to a lesson you learned at Northwestern? Olyvia: What I mentioned earlier about having the capacity to balance your own emotional needs as well as create change and serve, all of those lessons were lessons that I really learned at Northwestern. I remember when I was in ROTC, we watched this video that the Cleveland Clinic had put out, and it was a video that just shows different scenes in the hospital, but then it has thought bubbles next to the people. So for example, the girl petting the dog, it's like, "Well, her dad's dying of cancer. Or the woman sitting in the waiting room, she saw something on her mammogram." So all of these different thoughts and emotions people are experiencing, but you don't really know anything about it. And having such a diverse community at Northwestern as well as just thinking about that practice of empathy every day really helped me to see that even at Northwestern and since then, is that you might run into someone and think, "Oh, I don't know what to think about this person," or, "Oh, they're frustrating me at work," or, "Oh, this is happening." But a lot of times there's a lot more beneath the surface than we expect. So I think that lesson of empathy as well as humility is definitely... And I'd say empathy, humility, as well as endless possibilities for different lives of different people that all came together and sent me on a passion for learning and understanding people because I've come full circle, but I would say all of those lessons have really stuck with me throughout my work. And I'd say along those lines, in research, everyone that you're interviewing is more than a statistic. Leonie: Absolutely. Olyvia: A lot of times it's really hard to quantify things and we do our best as researchers, but sometimes what doesn't go into the research is actually sometimes the most impactful in many ways. Leonie: Yeah. Thank you for that answer. I'm a philosophy major and we've been talking a lot about character virtues, and so empathy comes up a lot in our classes. And yeah, seeing how you're able to use empathy in your research and looking at people's more than a statistic, I remember saying it before. Yeah, I think that's really touching and it gives me faith in the further research world and what people are able to do when they look at people beyond just their statistical measurements and whatnot. Yeah. Is there- Olyvia: Well, and I think to that point though, I think even if we think about ways that we've began to see different characteristics that have been left out of research, for example, even if we think about rates of death among African-American women during childbirth, or if we think about maybe other environmental effects of certain policies on particular communities that live by highways, for example, and low-income communities, all of that, if you don't look at the bigger picture, might go unnoticed, but definitely if you bring in those larger stories to individual people, you can understand a situation better. Leonie: Absolutely. Thank you for that.
June 4, 202545 min
Beyond Academia in Earth, Environmental, & Planetary Sciences
Cassie Petoskey: Hi, everyone. Thanks for being here. I'm Cassie Petoskey. I use she or they pronouns. And I'm the Director of the Waldron Student Alumni Connections Program, where our goal really is to help Weinberg College students explore career options through connecting with alumni. So thank you so much for our alumni for being here with us today. And we're going to spend some time. Amelia is going to take us through some prepared questions for our speakers. We'll get into it. Are you okay? I feel like I always talk at the worst time too. So no worries. And then we're going to save plenty of time for questions at the end. And Shai is going to moderate questions from you all. So please, we'll save plenty of time for that as you all are writing [inaudible 00:00:44] down throughout. And I think that's it without... And of course, thank you to Geoclub for partnering with us on this event. Very excited to have you all bring this idea forward and work with you all on this. So thank you. And without further ado, I'll pass to Amelia and Shai. Why don't you introduce yourselves first and then we'll go to our alumni speakers? [inaudible 00:01:06]. Amelia: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for coming. I'm Amelia. I'm a second year. I'm a Bio and Earth Science... Technically, Earth Science minor, but whatever. And I'm the president of Geoclub. And I'm so grateful that you all attended this event. We really wanted to be able to show people what Earth and Environmental Sciences can do for you in the future and expand the idea of there are [inaudible 00:01:29]. Shai: Hi, guys. I'm Shai. I use he/him pronouns. I'm a senior majoring in Earth and Planetary Science. I'm education chair of Geoclub. So also very glad to see so many [inaudible 00:01:40] here, and I'm excited to hear all the wisdom that our alumni have to offer. Thank you guys. Amelia: Yeah. So to start us off with some questions, can you share with us more about your industry and current job function and introduce yourselves while you're at it? And if you could speak to the microphone, that would be wonderful. Cassie Petoskey: Yeah. We're recording it. Sorry. Seems silly. Max Jones: Sure. Yeah. My name is Max Jones. And speaking of the future of your careers, I'm the near future because I graduated in June actually. So I am a class of 2024. I'm currently a Master's student at the Chicago Botanic Garden and I'm working as a conservation biologist and wildlife biologist. And so right now I've just returned from seven months of fieldwork in Panama doing work on forest fragmentation and animal movements. And I'm super excited to talk about all that and then also how I've kind of gotten to this point, especially so fresh out of undergrad. And then moving forward, I'm also going to be moving to Germany this summer to work with some scientists at the Max Planck Institute of Animal Behavior to keep working there. And so I'm going to be talking mostly I guess about my time networking at Northwestern and then how Earth and Planetary Science and Environmental Science has led me to the strange position I'm in right now. Margaret Isaacson: Hey, everyone. So my name's Margaret Isaacson. I graduated in 2015. It's been a minute. I'm a graduate of the Earth and Planetary Sciences Department, and currently I am a conservation and outdoors division manager at the Parks and Rec department in Evanston. So I'm pretty local. My position title is a long way of saying that I oversee our local nature center and all the programs that we run out of that facility along with the park services team that oversees the maintenance of the public restrooms around town and the athletic fields around town and picnic areas. So happy and excited to be here and talk to you all. And I think what I'll focus on, but happy to answer any questions, is how my experience in the department brought me to maybe an unusual career path and sector of the workplace, which is parks and recreation. Amelia: Thank you. So what were some of the impactful classes or experiences for you in your undergrad at Northwestern that led you to pursue your career path? Margaret Isaacson: Max, I feel like yours is in more recent memory, but I'll dig back. Max Jones: Okay. For mine, I think I'd probably start with saying ironically Spanish. Spanish led me down a snowball into this world of Latin American conservation that I've found myself in. And it was really that triggered the start, but then also I had everyone in the Environmental Science Department urging me to branch out and try new things, which was something super interesting. And so then specifically which classes, I'd say the GIS class with Elsa Anderson that I took was incredibly impactful in my senior year. That's been a skill that I've used all the time going forward. And just knowing these different kinds of programs like that have made it really easy for me to quickly pick up new kinds of analysis or feel comfortable going into different fields that I might not have experience with at the time. There was that, and then I'd also say my community ecology class from... That one's with the Biology Department, although I think Environmental Science students often take that too. That one just exposed me to a lot of different kind of paper readings. And so at first I thought those classes were very unfocused, but then I realized the goal is to expose you to so many different kinds of scientific thought that then you can... You find that one paper that you get really, really into for some reason and then that ends up being the rabbit hole that you follow down into the career that you want. Margaret Isaacson: The first thing that I'm thinking about back 10 years ago is some of the field experiences that I went on with the various classes, everything from Earth 201, that [inaudible 00:05:45] like trip, which hopefully is still around, to doing lake sediment coring up in Wisconsin on a frozen lake in the middle of February. That's right. Maggie remembers that hopefully. It was very cold. It was very, very cold that day. A lot of dancing on the ice to keep warm. So these experiences in the outdoors, they built on my passion for camping, my passion for spending time in the outdoors, but I got to be doing important science while I was out there. And now as a parks and recreation professional, my job is primarily outdoors and the goal of our Ecology Center here in Evanston is to inspire families, young kids, adults, people of all ages to spend time outdoors, whether that's through a quick class, through a whole summer of summer camp. But really it was those experiences doing science outside that showed me what can I do to inspire other people. "My professors are inspiring me now. Is there something more local, maybe less academic that I can have an impact on a broad range of people?" So I think those experiential moments were really important for me and really didn't guide me directly to parks and rec, but reinforced my passion for the outdoors and for inspiring that in others. Amelia: Max, you mentioned a bit about how your connections and networking that you had here are important. I don't know if that's applicable to you, but if you'd share a bit more about that, I'd love to hear. Max Jones: Yeah. Sorry. Give me just a second. You guys, it really was like... It's a funny thing on how you get started in these things because it's never the path you originally take that ends up to where you end up in the end. Because I think I started with one of the professors who was teaching an introductory climate change course my freshman year. I worked with her on processing photos of trees for a while and then that slowly led me to meet the people at the Chicago Botanic Garden. And then even though my research interests don't perfectly align with them, I did a thesis with Trish, with Patricia Betos, as my undergrad thesis advisor. And Trish is a mover. She loves pushing people to go do more and more and more. So I ended up going and doing a thesis in Costa Rica for my undergrad field work. And this is what I mean by the snowballs because I started taking photos of trees and then I ended up in Costa Rica doing sea turtle work with Trish and then from there I met the people that I worked with on this project as well. So that's the number one thing that I always recommend is don't be afraid to follow a lead, even if you don't know exactly where it's going to lead you to in that moment. Margaret Isaacson: Yeah. I could add a little bit to that. Not so much networking here on campus, but just post-grad when you start out at an opportunity. My first job was a part-time... My first job after post-grad was a part-time position with the Ecology Center. It was limited hours. I was learning on the job how to lead programs, completely new in the environmental education field, but I then left and came back two times and in four different positions leading to the one that I'm in now. So I think, like you said, following a lead, even if you don't know necessarily where it's going to take you, building relationships with the folks that you work with, the folks that... Whether it's academic or professional or just a summer experience, those are connections that you're going to take with you along the way. They might be people that you meet again. They might not. But like you said, Max, it's going to take you somewhere. And I think I wouldn't be where I was now if I didn't have the Ecology Center, for example, in the back of my mind and just building back towards that in some ways once I found something that I was excited about. Amelia: That's great. Thank you. What has surprised you about what you learned or did during your school days that helped you in your work today? I hope something you learned helps today. Margaret Isaacson: I can speak to that a little bit. So when I was an undergrad, I had two majors. I studied French all the way at the south end of campus, and then I was up here at the north end of campus doing Earth and Planetary Sciences. And having those two degrees really helped me flex some of my critical thinking skills. I wasn't always focused on data and reading scientific papers. I was also reading French literature and writing papers about French literature. I'm not fluent in French. I'm not using that skill very much. But that flexibility between two different majors or two different ways of using your brain has really served me well in how I organize my time at work, how I manage my staff, how we think critically about designing a new program in Evanston or figuring out how to make the bathrooms clean. Somebody's got to do it, so figuring out an efficient way to do that. I think the work ethic that you learn and practice at Northwestern is going to serve you no matter what. Maybe, Max, you have more data analyst that you use in your day-to-day than I do necessarily, but I think it's those soft skills and those hard skills that are going to come into play. Max Jones: No. I 100% agree with the soft skills part because so many of the random little things you do day-to-day as a college student end up translating in very strange ways to you being in a post-grad experience. For example, I never played soccer before, but then I played IM Leagues here and then all of a sudden, I felt very comfortable going and playing IM Leagues in Panama and that was my resource to going to meet people. And so you do just learn very good social skills in college, I'd say, that then translate very well to being outside. And I think that's especially true at Northwestern when you're surrounded by people who generally like to have conversations because sometimes you come across someone that might not want to engage with you in a way that you want to engage with them and so you have now this kind of depth of experience of having good productive conversations with people and that you can use going forward. And that's something that I always found super useful. I also took a drawing class that I found really productive here. Yeah. Amelia: So sort of going back to the networking question, what advice might you have for networking within your individual industries? Max Jones: Do not be afraid to cold call people. That's the number one thing I think, is the worst that can happen is... Honestly the worst that can happen is that they remember your name and that's a best case scenario in most fields because then a few years down the line you can meet them again and be like, "Oh, hi. Do you remember me?" They say yes, then you've won technically. Yeah, because I've also talked to friends about this because they say... Especially in science, people love to collaborate in science. You'll have people wanting to collaborate even when you don't really want to. And so if you just email them and you just express your genuine interest, not just trying to find a job out of it, then I've only had people respond very positively in these scenarios. And so even if you get told, "No, we don't have an option," a friend of mine once told me that every interview or every kind of reaching out is a networking opportunity, so even if you don't get it, you've done your job for that day at least because then you've met one more person who maybe five years down the line is going to help you out. Margaret Isaacson: I would add that more than likely you're going to end up in... You potentially end up in some kind of professional sphere that has conference opportunities, whether that's something that you're attending now or looking to in the future. I was surprised. I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was surprised when I got into parks and rec that there's a parks and rec conference. There's an Illinois parks and rec conference. There's a national parks and rec conference. There's so many people in this industry that I can learn from and skills that I never thought I'd even touch. So like Max said, don't be afraid to reach out to people. They're excited to talk about what they do and how they got there and what they want to do. So I think if you don't hear from people right away, it's probably because they're busy, but hopefully they get back to you. It doesn't hurt to email them again. Yeah. Just keep a positive attitude when you're reaching out to folks. Amelia: [inaudible 00:14:20] question, what is your favorite thing about your job? Margaret Isaacson: Oh, man. There's so many things. I also thought of my least favorite things, but... Well, you guys know I'm in charge of bathrooms now. It's not so glamorous. Gosh. There's so many fun things about parks and recreation. Being able to be outside a lot of the time is pretty great. I do spend a lot of hours behind a desk like anyone, but having our seasonal special events that we get the community out for, building new opportunities too for folks to experience the outdoors. Is really powerful to see the Evanston Environmental Association and the Ecology Center are working on trying to build a new canoe launch so that we can access the canal more easily. It's going to have a really big local impact. And it's just an inspiring process to watch. There's other parts of my job, like I said, that I never thought I'd be doing, where our building is under construction right now. And I studied Earth and science. I didn't study construction or architecture, but I get to see that whole process play out. And I think you can really see a lot of variety in most professions and learn from each of those experiences. And yeah. Right now, the construction is actually really fun to see play out. Max Jones: Yeah. For me, I'd say the collaborative element is something that I really love in my profession. It's the fact that no science is ever done in a bottle, and so you're constantly just meeting with people. It feels like a very creative process as you go through it. So it's always evolving, always adapting. Even the things you think are going to be boring, like sitting on your computer all day, just coding in R, then ends up being like something's going on there. And then you just dive down the rabbit hole and then you text all the other people you're collaborating with. It's like, "Hold on. Am I seeing this correctly?" Hey, I find it very enjoyable the fact that the process is iterative and I always get a chance to learn from other people. And then, like I said earlier, people love to collaborate. So then I've had really brief meetings where they're just throwing out ideas left and right at me. And the concept of just putting together all of these people's collective knowledge and interests and passion into the project is something that really speaks to me. And then the other thing I'd say is definitely I have a very fieldwork heavy field, and I think that that is something that's I personally enjoy a lot is this balance of I get to do work outside and then I also get to do this collaborative, creative element and bring this... Synthesize it all into a living, breathing work that I can put out into the world afterwards. Amelia: Thank you so much. Not to be presumptuous, but I'm seeing some themes between the both of you, which you said you like to be outside and you like to be creative, which I think is awesome. I think that's a thing that a lot of us in the room can relate to. How have your work or how have your values and beliefs influenced how you approach your professional workplace? Margaret Isaacson: Oh. Max Jones: It's funny. I prepped for this question and I'm still not ready for it. Margaret Isaacson: So I spoke to a little bit my passion for the outdoors, passion for outdoor rec, whether that's camping, hiking, backpacking, canoeing. A lot of those things I don't do here in Chicago. There's not too many backpacking routes in Chicago, so I try to get out of town and state for those. But those core values, just spending time outside really inform my day-to-day work, like you said, Amelia. I think even just taking a little break during the workday to get some [inaudible 00:18:04] or planning a professional development program for the Ecology Center staff or the parks and rec department as a whole that gets everyone outside and gets them rejuvenated goes a long way to staff's mental health, having fun in the workplace, being inspired in the workplace, even when we have these boring administrative tasks that we have to do every day. So I think that outdoor passion is really something that's just stuck with me along the way. And then were it not for the Ecology Center existing in this parks and rec department in Evanston, I wouldn't be able to bring my passion for sustainability to work either. I think sustainability would inform a lot of the things that the department does and that the City of Evanston does. The city has its own sustainability staff. We've got a sustainable waste manager. So I would say the town is progressive in that aspect, but having a center that's dedicated to promoting sustainability and educating folks on sustainability in a fun way, not in like a, "Here's how you recycle. And here's a DIY workshop on how to," I don't know, "Swap your clothes or something with other folks." I think having that focus of a center dedicated to this brings the fun into the Department of Sustainability, and that's been really nice to take from my work in paleo-climatology to, "Okay. What are we doing now and here and in this time to help Earth?" Max Jones: I really like what Margaret said about passion driving a lot of the work because I think that's really prominent in this field, especially where passion for the subject matter is really what gets us out of bed in the morning and then gets us to go because not a lot of people choose what we do based on the money or it's not like a career path that's recommended. It's like, "Oh, you should go into Earth and Environmental Sciences because that's a high income field." It's like, "No. We're doing this because we love it." And I do think that that is something that's like... It helps motivate a lot of the work you do and a lot of the challenges you might face along the way. It's like you think that, "At the very least I'm doing this because I love it and not because anyone is telling me I should." Amelia: I totally agree. I'm guessing a lot of people in this room also have a passion that leads them to come here. I think I'm out of my questions. Does anyone else have questions that they want to ask the speakers? I mean, I have [inaudible 00:20:42] my paper. Yeah. Rose: Yeah. Thank you guys for both being here. My name is Rose. I'm [inaudible 00:20:49] major. I'm a sophomore. I'm kind of curious, when you both were juniors, seniors, what did you think you were going to do and what was the plan that you had in your mind and what were the factors, like, "Oh, grad school. Oh, this, that."? Max Jones: Do you want me to start because more recent? Margaret Isaacson: Yeah. Max Jones: Okay. My journey as an undergrad was pretty funny because I came in as an engineering student. I originally wanted to be an environmental engineer because I come from Kentucky and so then back home you're just pushed to be either a doctor, an engineer or a lawyer. And I was like, "Well, engineer sounds fun." And then I got here and then I was just surrounded by people who were following passions instead of then just what they wanted to do. And so then I began to explore this career as an ambiguous just environmental researcher in my mind, but I didn't know exactly what that was going to look like and I really didn't know what it was going to look like until very recently. I only started all of my work abroad and then all of my work as a biologist specifically late in my junior year. And so it's one of those things where it's like I feel like a lot of it will take shape in very sudden and dramatic ways. So even if you don't know exactly where you're going, there's going to be some kind of event that triggers it and it all starts moving into place in that way. At least that's how it happened for me. Margaret Isaacson: I remember my advisor asking, "What is your dream job?" And I didn't really have a good answer. I wasn't ready, like, "Oh, I want to be teacher," or like, "I want to get a PhD and go into academia," or, "I want to do this type of research forever because I'm super excited about." And I was like, "Well, I like to spend time outside. Maybe a park ranger." I literally oversee staff called park rangers now. So I made it. But I think that brought me to, "Hmm. How can I take..." I really like reading about all this research. I really like digging into it myself. I like looking at under the microscope and making that into a paper. But I didn't see myself necessarily going to grad school. It wasn't like a for sure thing. And it wasn't a certainty for me. It didn't quite set in as that's what I definitely want to do. But I saw all this cool research and wanted to know, "Well, how do we take all this amazing but very specific research and take it and communicate it to the general public? What are they getting out of all the great things that we do here on campus and elsewhere?" And that took me down the path of environmental education and science communication. I think for a little while I thought, "Oh, I'm going to maybe go and figure how to write and become a science communicator." I found local part-time jobs that were environmental education related because that was going to be how I took my expertise and my knowledge, build on that knowledge in other ways, and then inspire other people to maybe they end up getting a PhD. Maybe it's not me, but it might be them, or they're just excited about being outside and learning a new fact about local wildlife. So yeah, it was kind of circuitous. And over the last 10 years or so since finding science communication, I've gone more towards the administrative and managerial side, which is also really exciting. I like flexing those muscles and figuring out how to get a team to work all together and put on that science communication. I'm not in front of the campfire group leading the program anymore, and that's kind of a bummer sometimes, but we make it happen as a team. So you discover different talents along the way as well. Amelia: That was an awesome answer. Thank you so much. I did realize there's one more question on my paper that Rose's kind of leaned into, which is what do you wish you could tell yourself when you were in student's shoes? Margaret Isaacson: Do you wish you could tell yourself last year? Max Jones: I know, right? I do wish that... Because it's very natural that while you're wondering if what you're doing is going to work out, then you put a lot of pressure on yourself. It's like, "Why haven't I figured out what I'm going to do next right now?" And over the process of I guess the last year and a half for me, it's very much like a process of it happens. Progress happens very slowly until it just jumps forward. So you're going to feel like you're stuck and then you're repeating the same patterns a lot. It's like, "Why haven't I gotten this next connection yet? Why haven't I figured it out?" And then it really snaps into place when you least expect it. And so then you finally get that motion forwards and then things start rushing and then life moves faster again, but then it'll slowly trickle back down and then you have to ride the waves of sometimes it moves fast in terms of you're making these good connections and you're moving forward in your projects or in your career, and then other times you have to be very calm and weather the storm a little bit. So I'd say I tell myself to calm down and chill out. Margaret Isaacson: I would second that. "Just relax. It's going to work out. Okay?" I think that I was kind of similar in putting a lot of pressure on myself to do well academically. Again, not really thinking about what I wanted to do post-grad until I was in it. But I think just give yourself some grace and be patient with what you do. Work hard, but you can also be patient and not expect that you're going to do the same thing as your colleague or your friend who is in the same department. Your paths could look completely different. Clearly. Ours are completely different. So talk to your colleagues. Talk to your advisors. See what their experiences are. Ask alumni what their experiences are. But don't think that that is the experience that you have to do or take or follow. There's a lot of options and you can also pivot later. You might get into something right after graduation and then you might find out, "Oh, I'm really good at this one piece of that job and I'm going to pursue that." It's not a straight path. It's not one thing. You can always switch it up. I may switch it up. You never know. Max Jones: Yeah. If I can bounce back off that again, it's not comparing yourself to the people around you [inaudible 00:27:34] critical because then you end up in cycles where the person next to you gets a fellowship and instead of being happy for them and interested in it, you're just like, "Oh, damn. Why don't I have a fellowship yet?" And it really is like, yeah, everyone has a different path that they're going to take throughout this and it just feeds into an imposter syndrome if you let yourself make those comparisons. Margaret Isaacson: A lot of the staff who come and work at the Ecology Center are recent grads. They come and they do part-time work as program instructors. That's what I started out as. And I think I see in them bringing just so much positivity and excitement about their work. I think that's a really great thing to grab on when you're just starting out after graduating in your career. You're going to feel great about yourself if you're doing something you're excited about. You're going to meet people and learn what they do. And the staff that I work with, they work so hard, they cobble together multiple part-time jobs. They're pulling experience from multiple places and it's getting them where they need to be. Not to say that that's the path for everyone, but I think it's just important to keep a positive attitude while you're in it and know that you're not stuck when you start one thing. You don't have to do that for the rest of time. Max Jones: That was beautiful. Amelia: That was beautiful. Thank you. Shai, you want to keep taking questions? Shai: Yeah. For sure. Did anybody have any other questions they want to ask alumni? Sure. Speaker 7: Do you guys feel like your identity ties into what you do? Or do you guys feel like you found parts of yourself doing your work? Even like you said, you kind of trialed a little bit. Do you feel like that kind of connected you more to who you are and even to [inaudible 00:29:27] up to what you do? Max Jones: Yeah. It kind of radically changed how I viewed myself in a way because, yeah, so I'm from Kentucky. I'm from a low-middle-income family. And so coming here I was very out of my elements it felt like a lot of times, surrounded by very elite academic institutions. So I went through a lot of my first second year with a chip on my shoulder. But then I go start working in Latin America where scientists there have to work twice as hard as I do just because they don't speak the same language. And then all of a sudden all of that feelings of angst, I guess, flooded away because I was like everything that I've been angry about or anxious about has just been minuscule on a larger scale. Yeah. I say working in international communities like that has very much changed my perception on life and science and as an industry as a whole. Margaret Isaacson: I would add the industry that I'm in, parks and rec, is very service oriented and I've learned so much about customer service, not from a restaurant job, but from answering 311s and... So. I don't know if everyone knows what 311. You guys know what 311 is, right? Okay. Maybe. Yes. That's Maggie, right? Are you sending me the 311s? No. But I think I've found that it makes me happy to provide a service for a community and you feel fulfilled when you... Even if it's something unglamorous, like cleaning bathrooms, you still feel like, "Oh, I'm impacting people on a regular basis, on a daily basis. And with my small work or local work, it's still important." So I think finding your impact is really a powerful thing, Speaker 7: [inaudible 00:31:29] but they take... Not take away from your [inaudible 00:31:31], but like you said, having that chip on your shoulder when you look back and now that you fulfilled almost in what you're doing, [inaudible 00:31:38]. Margaret Isaacson: I was so stressed back then. You don't need to be stressed. It's okay though. You can be stressed. College is a stressful time. There's a lot going on. You guys have a lot on your plate. You're managing a lot of learning. You're managing a lot of growth. And that's just going to continue. But you're able to take that on. And this is just one experience that's going to teach... College is just one experience that's going to teach you that you're capable of taking that on. You're just going to keep taking on new things. Shai: [inaudible 00:32:13] question? Yeah. Sure. Speaker 8: How do you guys feel about your work-life balance or just your outdoorsy hobbies come [inaudible 00:32:25]? Max Jones: Do you want to say? Margaret Isaacson: Sure. My work-life, so... Okay. Speaker 8: Your balance is [inaudible 00:32:36] by [inaudible 00:32:37] having outdoorsy hobbies and also that in a job. Margaret Isaacson: Oh, I see what you're saying. Interesting. No. Work is still work, even when it's outside, but it's nice when it's outside because you get a little break from your desk. No. I think work-life balance is probably something that you all are learning even now. And it's one of those things that you're going to get into the work world and it's going to look a little bit different. You're going to be tired. But I think if you find the right gig or the right job that's going to be able to build that in and still make time for yourself. And it's important to make time for yourself even in your work. I'm not sure if that was your question, but... Yeah. Do you want to? Max Jones: Yeah. I think I understand exactly what your worry is here because I love outdoors. I love all things nature related. But I have been surrounded by people sometimes when I'm working where it's like we're in the field 10 hours a day and then they come back, they're like, "Wow. That was great, wasn't it?" And I was like, "I'm tired. I want to go home," even though I love what I've done, but then you do come across a lot of... Not a lot, but sometimes you do find scenarios where the people you're with don't view what they're doing necessarily as work. They also view it as very fun. And so then you have to set your own boundaries there where you have to be like, "Yes, I enjoy this work a lot, but this is not what I want to be doing in my free time right now. I don't want to give up another afternoon of my time to go work, even though I enjoy my work." So I have found myself in those dilemmas before where it's like you really enjoy being outside, but also after your 15th hour of it, you're just like, "Okay. Let me go read a book or something." Shai: Good question. Do you have any more question? Cassie Petoskey: I think [inaudible 00:34:28] question about the goal day-to-day. I'm guessing every day is different, but what are you doing in [inaudible 00:34:36]? What are you doing in your outside? What are the activities? And how often? Like 15 hour a day you're outside? That's [inaudible 00:34:47]. What does that look like a day? Walk us through a day. Max Jones: Okay. For me, well, my day-to-day has just changed dramatically because I finished up my field season, but when I was in the field, it would be we're up at 5:45, quick breakfast, and then we go out into the forest, and then... I was setting up camera traps and so we were specifically looking at arboreal cameras and arboreal species, like monkeys and stuff. And so we would set up cameras in the trees. And so to do that, we would have to climb trees. I'd be climbing trees myself. And so that sometimes could entail... If one tree could take almost six hours sometimes just because you'd have to take a slingshot and then put a line up in the tree. I don't want to get too into it, but... Cassie Petoskey: [inaudible 00:35:32]. Max Jones: "Get into it. Get into it." Okay. Do we want the break- Cassie Petoskey: We want to know how you climb. Max Jones: Okay. So you take a big slingshot, and then you shoot a weight with a string on it over a branch that you think can support your weight. And then you... I say think because you test it. And then you tie a climbing rope. You pull the climbing rope over. And then I just hook into a harness and then a few climbing equipments. And then I go up. And then sometimes, depending on if the tree is difficult, if there's ants in it or something, it can take me a few hours up there too. Then I took my data and then I'd come back down. And the idea was always we would do two a day. Sometimes we would push for three a day. And so that could take like... We could be working from sunrise right up until sunset. There was a few times when I was still up in a tree and I'd had to use a headlamp to finish up up there because we were just pushing so hard by the end of the day. Margaret Isaacson: Very cool. Max Jones: Now- Margaret Isaacson: Can you teach a tree climbing program for the Ecology Center, please? Max Jones: I'd love to. Margaret Isaacson: Perfect. We'll talk later. I want to tell you what my day-to-day looked like when I first started out and then where I am now because it's very different. When I was first starting on as a program instructor, so post-grad, I would come to work, I would write a lesson plan or write up a program, decide what materials I needed, gathered them. I took care of animals on a daily basis that we had for educational purposes. And then often I would be going out and leading that program. Sometimes it was a family campfire. Sometimes it was a critter visit, where I'm holding up animals and showing them to kids and letting them pet them. Super fun. Now my work is a little bit more behind the scenes. So I do a lot of emailing and a lot of administrative tasks. I coordinate with a lot of different departments, whether that's greenways, to make sure that the athletic fields are ready for the sports season, or touching base with my seasonal staff to make sure that they're doing their rounds on the lakefront bathrooms, or planning, budgeting and meeting with the program coordinators who are actually planning programs. So it's a lot of, like I said, more backend work and making sure that when we present these programs through the program instructors, the position that I used to do, to the public or through summer camp, that it's kind of ready to go, we're using taxpayer money wisely and well, and that the city has services that are meeting their needs and expectations. So it's a lot of email and payroll and some unglamorous things, but we also get outside occasionally. Shai: Do other people have question? Speaker 9: Well, with the... Thank you so much for being here for answering all our questions, but with the summer coming around, I'm sure many of us in this room are looking for internships and jobs and any experience in the field. Where do you recommend we look? And then a follow-up that would be how do you prepare for interviews? Margaret Isaacson: If you're local, Chicago Environmental Network has a ton of opportunities, wide-ranging, seasonal, full-time, part-time. That's a great site. Yeah. Of course. Chicago Environmental Network. And they have a job board. I think they also have volunteer postings. We always post our positions there and all of the area nature science adjacent companies and organizations post on there as well. Shai: We'll find that [inaudible 00:39:22] a follow-up. Speaker 9: Thank you. Max Jones: I'd say it depends a lot on what kind of work you want to get into, but I know that there's a really good job listing board. It's like UT Austin or something. I'm sure Maggie or Trish know it. But it really kind of depends on what you want to get into. Historically, the Scientists in the Parks have been a very competitive but credible internship. I don't know if they're operating this summer because of everything happening. The Shedd Aquarium I've also heard has some pretty interesting opportunities for research assistants over the summer. I had a friend who did actually like scuba diving with them and then went to found mussels in one of the Chicago rivers or something. It was pretty cool. And then I've also heard some good things about the Audubon Society. Sometimes they periodically have stuff around here. Besides that, I'd cold call or cold email professors because a lot of them have... Either they directly have a project that they might want you to work on or sometimes they'll redirect you to Master's students or PhDs. Right now in the listserv that I'm on in the Chicago Botanic Garden, we get emails forwarded to us from students at Northwestern being like, "Hi. Is anybody looking for help this summer? I'd love to work." Margaret Isaacson: I think I was on some environmental listserv of some kind. I'll try to track it down and send it to Cassie. And this was a while ago. But I remember... Gosh. Anyway. It took me to Great Basin Institute, which is out west, but they do all kinds of research and experiential education in the western states. I did that for a summer. One year I was basically a camp counselor, but they also have a lot of research positions as well that are seasonal. Max Jones: Lincoln Park Zoo also has some really cool stuff down there. The Urban Wildlife Division is... I wanted to work with them every single year I was an undergrad. It just never worked out. Yeah. Shai: [inaudible 00:41:16]. Do they have any other questions [inaudible 00:41:16]? Amelia: How do we take care of the internship [inaudible 00:41:19]? Speaker 11: When was your last interview? Margaret Isaacson: What was that? Speaker 11: [inaudible 00:41:27]. Margaret Isaacson: My last interview was two years ago, a year and a half. Yeah. So pretty recent. The way I prepared for that interview, I had a little insight being already in the department and the division that I was applying for a promotion. So I kind of knew some of the questions that they might ask me, but you can... The way that I did it is I like to think of questions that I might be asked, go ahead and answer them and just write down ideas and thoughts. For my most recent position, I also thought about what I would want as a manager. So I was applying for the position that had been overseeing what I... That's so confusing. I was a program coordinator and I applied for a promotion. So I thought, "As a program coordinator, what would I want to see in a manager? And what projects would I want to prioritize?" And I brainstormed those. But yeah, just thinking through questions that they might ask. Most interviews will ask some of those classic questions. They're always going to start out with, "Why are you applying to this job?" So your elevator pitch is really important and can speak to your passion and also experience. Yeah. Just jotting down some notes. That works for me. Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, but that's what I did. Max Jones: I haven't been in a lot of interviews at this stage of my career, honestly. Most of my interviews have been very informal conversations. And so I think that's just by luck how I've moved forward. Right now, I just haven't had any interviews, to be honest. So think Margaret's advice is sage. Margaret Isaacson: I guess I could add more. Yeah. I also have done a lot of interviews where I didn't get the job too. So sometimes you just don't know exactly what they're looking for, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that you're not experienced and that you're not knowledgeable of what you do. It just might not be what they're looking for for that position, or someone has just a little bit more in a particular area that they're excited about. I've also been on the other side of interviews where I get to see all the candidates and hear what they have to offer and see what does it look like for our department if we hire this person instead of this person and they have different experience and we're not really sure how to staff this new position, and the interviewees inform the position. So that can happen as well, where it's not necessarily just... Sometimes it's based on a feeling a little bit, which sounds kind of crazy, but... Yeah. Been on both sides. I think you can practice a lot for an interview. You can hone your speaking skills. You can keep your answers brief but interesting and show your passion, and then just know that you're going to do interviews and some of them are going to work out and some of them aren't. And that's okay. Amelia: [inaudible 00:44:31] just kind of silly. Do people ever reference the TV show in your workplace? Margaret Isaacson: All the time. One of my co-workers has Leslie Knope on her desktop. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Amelia: [inaudible 00:44:46]. Margaret Isaacson: No. There are moments where we have situations we're like, "This could be a Parks and Rec episode. We should just start our own show." Yeah. Cassie Petoskey: Thank you both so much for being here. And I know we have a few more minutes, so students, if you all have the questions or just want to make connections, we'll share out LinkedIn profiles after, but I encourage you to come up and chat with the alumni for a few minutes here. But really thank you all so much for coming out. Thanks, Geoclub, for bringing forward this idea. And thanks to Max and Margaret for being here. So... Amelia: Thanks again. Shai: Thanks [inaudible 00:45:28]. Cassie Petoskey: [inaudible 00:45:28].
June 4, 202522 min
Waldron Career Conversation with Sijh Diagne '10 & Dora Zhang '26
Dora: First of all, thank you so much for your willingness to connect and speak with us today. And to start off, do you mind briefly introducing yourself? Sijh: Yes. So my name is Sijh Diagne. I am a Weinberg class of 2010, did Economics and International Studies at Northwestern. Today I work as the advisor to the CFO of the African Development Bank. It's the largest multilateral development bank in Africa. Before that, I used to be in the Senegalese government as a senior advisor to the Minister of Economy, Planning and Cooperation. So the last five years I have found myself being at the intersection of policy and finance in Africa. Really enjoy playing some of my hobbies. I enjoy playing tennis. I enjoy playing a little bit of basketball, love watching tennis as well. Had a chance to travel quite a bit. So I enjoy traveling and trying out some new foods. So that's a little bit in a nutshell about myself. Dora: Sounds great. I'm actually going to play tennis and basketball later today. Sijh: Ah, fantastic. Dora: It's very nice out. Yeah, I'm a big fan of tennis and basketball too. Sijh: Very good. Dora: Thank you so much for introducing yourself. So I think my first question is that we're wondering how did you end up working at the African Development Bank Group and being where you are right now? Sijh: Yes. So my mentor I've had since I graduated from college when I joined Oliver Wyman as a consulting, he was an investment bank at the time in Dubai, Senegalese named Amadou Hott, and he became the Minister of Economy, Planning and Cooperation of Senegal in 2019. So I sent him a text message when he became minister. At the time I was at Harvard Business School. I finished my MBA and I was working at Credit Suisse in New York. And I said, "Congratulations." And he said to me, "You should think about joining the government, you'd be good to come home and serve your country." And I said, "Yeah, yeah, it's okay. No problem. I'm enjoying banking, but I wish you the best." And long story short, he did contact me and came to New York and said, "I need you. I'm building a team. I want you to join the ministry as my advisor. You're going to be in charge of private sector development." This was at the end of 2019, had decided thinking about everything personally and professionally, that this was going to be a really cool opportunity to serve your country, contribute to policy, especially something that I've always wanted to do since my days at Northwestern. And he took me on board and I became his advisor. We did a lot of interesting things in Senegal, COVID-19 pandemic economic recovery plan, an emergency youth jobs plan, PPP law, and really put Africa on a map, at least Senegal on a map, especially when we were sharing the African Union. And subsequently, he then moved on from government, went to the African Development Bank as advisor to the president, special envoy. And when the CFO of the bank was looking for somebody, had asked him and he suggested my name as somebody who had the profile, given my investment banking background, coupled with my policy and government background. And that's how I ended up at the African Development Bank. So it's a quite combination of personal interests, luck, but also relationships given the fact that it was a mentor who had recommended me. And this is a lot of times how the world works at a certain level. It's word of mouth, its connection, its relationships. And that's how I ended up where I am today. Dora: That's really cool. I think it's really cool that you ended up contributing to your own hometown by using your interest and skills and expertise. That sounds very cool to me. And you've also mentioned that you started off as a consultant at Oliver Wyman. What led you to decide that you want to do consulting when you first graduated? Sijh: So consulting was a little bit by accident, I would say. At the beginning when I was a junior at Northwestern, I had an undergraduate research grant to do studies. I was doing a thesis on China's economic involvement in Africa because I was surprised that when I went on vacation in Senegal, I saw a lot of people from China in Senegal. And Senegal was not a resource-rich country at the time. We did subsequently find oil and gas, but that was much later. And I was just quite interested in that new phenomenon. And so while I was doing that project, I started talking to merchants and consumers about business, about trade, and I got very interested in maybe the business of giving advice on strategic advice. Instead of maybe going for a master's in international relations and doing diplomacy, I maybe thought maybe I should explore deep field in management consulting, especially in emerging markets because it was one of the fastest growing markets in the world and I wanted to get exposure to that, given my Senegalese background, the fact that I also had chance to spend also a study abroad in Egypt and wanted to also develop my Arabic. So I looked at opportunities that will place me in the Middle East where I can be focused on at the time Middle East and Africa. And Oliver Wyman was recruiting in their Dubai office, and that was my top choice. Now remind you that this was in 2009. It was at the height of the economic crisis. So it was extremely challenging to find a job, and I just remembered applying to so many jobs at the time and just feeling completely agonized that what if I don't get it? Because a lot of my classmates were not getting jobs, people were getting laid off, were not recruiting as much. And I really thought that this is the only chance I have to differentiate myself because the US market was just quite challenging. And I practiced many, many hours a day. I only took three classes when I [inaudible 00:06:37] Northwestern versus four just to give myself a chance to get to that job. And so by God's grace, I got the job and then I moved to Dubai. And that's what I ended up doing for a few years. Dora: That sounds really cool. So you've mentioned that it was really hard to find a job back in 2009. And I'm sure it got a lot better now, but it's still a little hard for us because I'm a junior, so I'm also applying for jobs. It's still hard, especially for international students to find jobs. So is there any advice or suggestion you can give to the students seeking for a job in financial service or just seeking for a job in general? Sijh: Do not underestimate the power of the alumni network and in your relationships. When I was applying for jobs at the time at Oliver Wyman, most of the people who were interviewing me were from the Chicago office, Northwestern alum. And so I really tapped into that network at the beginning. It's the only network really I'd had at the time, frankly. And so in any job you have to look at what is required of the job in terms of skill set. Does it match currently the skill sets that you've been building or working on? And then number two, just really talk to alumni, talk to your network who work in those fields. Because oftentimes what might make a difference is just a person at the right time saying, "Oh, I know this person. I've worked with this person, I've interacted with this person. I can tell this person's character. I can tell this person's work ethic. I can tell about how assiduous they are. I can tell about how much integrity, how good communicator they are, and how consistent they have been in terms of reaching out, following up, asking the right questions and really putting in the work." Because at the end of the day, that might be what differentiates one or two candidates, what you do well, what you can control, having a good GPA applying for the job, but tailoring your CV, preparing for the interviews. But at the end of the day, sometimes the decisions are being made based on other emotional quotient. What were the interactions like with the people who you've met? Have you been very consistent at reaching out at talking to them? What has been your demeanor? I found that these interactions really made a difference, and so I made it a point in my career to just continue to reach out to mentors, continue to reach out to people in my different circles. This interview that we're having today would not have been possible if it weren't for a Northwestern alum, my sister Nikki Okrah, who gave a brilliant commencement speech last year and to whom I'm being very, very grateful for to open doors. And these are the ways in which the Northwestern alumni has been used. Nikki and I have been friends for almost 17, 18 years, since freshman year of college. She's back in Ghana building Chaku Foods, which is a startup in the agricultural space. And so my point is just leverage the network, build genuine relationships with people, your colleagues, your peers, and these things will pay dividends over time. Dora: I definitely agree because I've been doing networking and coffee chats with a lot of alumni as well, and I know that they have also been reaching out and talking to a lot of students. But I don't know if this question might be a little repetitive. Do you have any advice or suggestion for students to maybe stand out in those conversations? Like you mentioned being consistent and always follow up, but is there any more things or specific strategies we could use to... Sijh: Yeah, and I think these times are very challenging times as you can see given what's happening at the global environment. Quite challenging, quite complex, but it's also a tremendous time of opportunities and growth. One way in which I differentiated myself at the time when I was graduating is that I knew I had a language differentiator. I was fortunate to speak five languages, including Arabic, which was a differentiating factor when I was applying for jobs in the Dubai office. Being from Senegal, having had good quality education from Chicago at Northwestern and making sure that you had a good academic performance, those were things that at least I could differentiate myself. So I also already felt like I was competitive on the international front. I could make sure that I may not have been competitive on the local front in a Chicago office front because I think they were much stronger candidates. But for sure, I used my skillset, my international background, the fact that I did an international studies degree sort of understood some of the geopolitical implications at the time, to my advantage. And even when I was transitioning into investment banking, I gave myself that opportunity. So when I was at Harvard, when I was applying for my internship at Credit Suisse, again, the differentiating factor made it that I did an international degree, I had an international experience having worked in many different countries, being based in Dubai, covering Middle East and Africa. Having done consulting as somebody who's transitioning into financial services gives you the problem-solving skills, give you the ability to just synthesize dense information into small, consistent and simple messages to be able to tailor messages based on your audience. And those were a few skillsets that I picked up from my consulting background that were really helpful not only for investment banking, which you're transitioning to the financial services, but even beyond, skillsets such as communication, skillsets such as the ability, like I said, to look at complex problems and breaking them down into smaller pieces that can take you from point A to point B, and your ability to explain to different audiences the key messages. If you're meeting with a senior executive, what is the message that he needs to hear? How are you able to explain that to him? When you're meeting with more technical people, what level of information do you need and how do you communicate that effectively? Those are skillsets that are going to be very important no matter what you do, especially in financial services as well, because what happens is you're taking a lot of data from very, very different data sets and you're trying to synthesize them into something that can be actionable, recommendable for senior executives to make a decision about his company, his business, or for a country in the case of government. Dora: That sounds really cool and very helpful, all the skillsets you've mentioned. So how is working in consulting and financial service, for example, investment banking, different to you? Sijh: Yeah, so consulting and investment banking, those are both advisory businesses. So in that way they're kind of similar. You are always looking at what are your client's most pressing issues, and you're trying to solve them. Maybe in a consultant you might be more thinking about the strategic issues, market entry strategy, cost-cutting strategies. Maybe if you're doing corporate finance and investment banking, you are advising them on what is the optimal financial structure that you have, maybe what are the acquisitions that you need to do in order to generate the shareholder return and meet your fiduciary duties towards your shareholders. Those are in a way similar but also different skill sets. What I love about investment banking in particular as a great training is that you're still problem solving. You become very financially savvy and you really pay attention to details. It is about having strong attention to detail that will really make a difference in a way. You have to be able to understand the financial implications of your decisions of the data, while at the same time still have to communicate in a way that the senior executive in front of you, the CEO or the CFO or the head of business development, understand and also take your recommendations and action them. At the end of the day, the strategic advice needs to be actionable. And I really want to put an emphasis on the action part because you're getting paid to provide a service that he can take and say, "I can make this happen and I can generate returns and I can generate a results." So that's what I would say the similarities, but also the differences and what skill sets you need to pay attention to in order to move up the financial services ladder. I didn't stay very long in investment banking. I only did it for a little under three years. But the skill sets that I picked up there in terms of just understanding finances, reading the balance sheet, the income statement, the cash flows, being able to quickly analyze that and then also help make a decision. When I came to government, one of the things that I really picked up, because we were doing the COVID-19 response for Senegal, we had to move really fast. We didn't know how the world was going because there was no playbook on how to do a COVID-19 response. But the investment banking and the consulting approach made it so that I knew how to take data that was happening from different parts of the world, the benchmarking that was being done. If you're doing comparable transactions in banking, similar things. What's happening in France, what's happening in Germany, what's happening in Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, et cetera? And then thinking about in your country, in Senegal, how would some of these fiscal or monetary policies actually be useful, be actually be easily implementable and will have the intended results for your population? So thinking very critically about those problems, analyzing data, large data and synthesizing them into simple, actionable items, that's what enabled us to move quickly to make recommendations directly for the president, for him to take action and for us to mobilize the resources from our partners, the World Bank, the IMF, the other bilateral and multilateral partners, for us to have a plan that can fight against COVID-19 response. So that experience was a combination of the consulting skillset, problem solving, and the financial services, attention to detail, understanding financial statements, thinking about client implications that made us have the results, and those are very invaluable skill sets no matter what industry you choose to always have. Dora: That sounds really cool to me. All of your experiences, either from consulting or investment banking are so helpful to your current role and your job. That sounds very cool to me. So thank you so much for sharing about the student alumni connection and your career. So another question as a student we have is that how do you stay motivated? Because we're still pursuing a job and seeking for a job, and sometimes it can be very overwhelming. So I'm just curious if you have any strategy or approach. Sijh: Look, the reality is you have to tell yourself it is hard. It is hard to recruit in these times that are very challenging where there's a lot of uncertainty, and understanding that it is hard first, and acknowledging is really first of all important. I probably applied to about 60 or so jobs and barely got more than five interviews. So you have to stomach the ability of rejection. I hear so many nos. It can be very disappointing. You can feel low about yourself. You can have, am I good enough? You can feel like, are you good enough? Were you smart enough? Did you work hard enough? You can really doubt yourself in these moments. But the key is just to think about is to stay optimistic. Stay optimistic that after the bad times, good times will come. You just stay the course. You just have to have an objective in mind. You want to recruit for this type of position, and you just give yourself the best chance for you to do this. Recruit, stay consistent. Have maybe a peer to peer review so that your peers can also keep you in check. I had a very good friend of mine at Northwestern named [inaudible 00:19:38] in my class. We were recruiting together. We used to practice our cases together. We used to check in on one another. "How are you doing?" We were spending many, many hours together every day, but keeping each other in check, keeping each other accountable. Having an accountability partner in this journey is also very, very helpful. And I found having that was really helpful for me to stay motivated. Leaning into your support system, your family, your loved ones, your friends, your professors, some alumni who can maybe give you comfort that, "Hey, tough times is part of life, but if you stay the course, things will work out." That there's always going to be bumps along the road, and I had my fair share of bumps along the road and continue to have bumps. But it's just the ability to keep at it, to stay, to be optimistic, to have a goal in mind, and just to give yourself a chance to work towards it while leaning on your support system, I think is what is going to carry you through some of the tough times you face as a student. And I think the last thing I would say is just to keep perspective, because you might seem like this is the worst things, but at the end of the day, you're giving yourself a chance to have a great education. The Northwestern brand is really strong. To this day, 15 years out, I haven't reached the peak of my career yet. I still have ways to go, but I'm finding that how powerful it has been, how helpful it has been based on the resources that I tapped into when I was in undergrad, the connections that I made that enabled me to get to where I am today. As I mentioned, my friend, Nikki Okrah, who's building a fantastic company, who gave me this opportunity to speak to these students as a Northwestern alum, as a friend and a sister. Those are things that will stay with you. So stay the course. Tell yourself it's hard. You understand. But you will get to the other side. Dora: Thank you so much. Sijh: And this too shall pass, as we say. Dora: Thank you so much for saying all of this. It's really motivating and so nice of you to say all of this to students. I feel like it's very helpful for everyone who's seeking jobs or underclassmen figuring out what they want to do after graduation in general. But yeah, just thank you so much again for your willingness to connect with all the students and for coming to the Weinberg in the World Podcast interview. We hope to stay in touch with you. Thank you. Sijh: It is my pleasure.
May 20, 202526 min
Waldron Career Conversation with Priscilla Caldwell '85 & Aimee Resnick '26
In this episode of the Weinberg in the World podcast, Aimee Resnick '26 interviews Priscilla Vail-Caldwell '85, founder of Vail-Caldwell Projects. Priscilla shares her undergraduate experiences at Northwestern, including impactful classes and internships that shaped her career in the arts. She discusses her current role as an advisor and curator, helping clients build art collections with a focus on research and quality. Aimee: Welcome to the Weinberg in the World Podcast, where we bring you stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. My name is Aimee Resnick and I am your student host of the special podcast episode. I'm a senior studying social policy at Northwestern University who plans to pursue public administration in my home state of Colorado. Today, I'm very excited to be speaking with Priscilla Vail-Caldwell, who is the founder of the consulting firm, Vail-Caldwell Projects. Thank you, Priscilla for taking the time to speak with me today. Priscilla: Thank you, Aimee, for having me. Aimee: Of course. To start us off today, we were wondering if you can just tell us a little bit more about your time at Northwestern as an undergraduate in terms of what did you study and what were the impactful experiences you had at Northwestern that led you to your current career? Priscilla: I think one thing to note is that I came to Northwestern following a year of study abroad in France. As a senior, I studied in France, and then I came to Northwestern with an idea that I wanted to be at a big university near a city. Logistics had something to do with actually my choice of university, and I think it had to do with the fact that I had this experience that had really kind of opened my mind up about the world, essentially. There was that, and for some reason I declared an art history major very early on in my time at Northwestern. I think as a freshman, I had already decided that that was what I was going to do. You had asked what was one of the transformative experiences that I had at school, and I was thinking that ironically, in a way, I think it may have been a studio art class that I took because it was very rigorous and I enjoyed it, and I had a lot of respect for the other students in the class who I thought were gifted than I was. And I then realized that that wasn't really what I should be doing, but I still wanted to be involved in the arts, and I wanted to be involved in art history and working with objects. I always enjoyed those big introductory courses, sort of identifying paintings, and it seemed like a game to me, really. And I enjoyed that. And then frankly, learning about history through the lens of art. That was always something that kind of compelled me. I think another thing that I did while I was on campus, and I do think this is something that big universities offer, especially ones like Northwestern that are near a city like Chicago, are the opportunities to work in different situations outside of the university campus. I always worked, while I was at Northwestern, I waitressed, I did all sorts of things in order to earn extra money, and I found a job at a gallery downtown in Chicago called Frumkin & Struve. It's no longer in existence, but at the time, it was one of the big galleries downtown. And I worked there every Saturday. And then I had time in my schedule during the week, and I would work there usually one day during the week as well. And Bill and Debbie Struve were the principals of the gallery, and they gave me a lot... I mean, for a college student, they gave me a lot of responsibility, and they really brought me into the fold in a sense. So, I was included in all sorts of things, and the dinners for the artists, and I got to meet a lot of the artists that they were working with. And it was exciting and engaging, and I thought that that seemed like the kind of life I wanted to lead. I enjoyed the interaction with the artists primarily. Aimee: Oh, I totally empathize with your studio art experience, I'm taking painting right now, and there are some incredible painters in that class. But I also wanted to just say, I think that your experience having a really meaningful internship in Chicago is a good reminder to students to look outside the Northwestern bubble for opportunities as they're going through school. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about what you do at Vail-Caldwell Projects now that you're in New York. Priscilla: Well, I'm an advisor and a curator, and I've had my own advisory business now for the last... I think it's been about eight years. I've always been in the professional... I've always been in the commercial art world, but in this iteration, I advise private people who are building collections on acquiring works of art for the collection. We're building things oftentimes from the ground up. Oftentimes, I will start working on a project with somebody and there will be nothing essentially, and we will work on that together and build something that is meaningful and very specific in every single case with every client that I work with. All my projects are very, very different. There are clients that I work with who buy only the work of one artist. There are clients that I work with who focus very specifically on certain kinds of movements in, for instance, the California Light and Space Movement. There are people who are interested in collecting works by female artists. It all ends up having very different kinds of focuses. Each one of the projects allows me to apply my research skills and learn a lot alongside whoever it is that I'm advising, oftentimes about different aspects of the art world. I see what I do, as always, very research-based and obviously sort of a search for quality and also to include different voices in any kind of project that I work on. I also have a very strong background in modern American painting. I have this kind of hybrid experience where I oftentimes advise people on the purchase of work by contemporary and emerging artists, but I have a strong background in historic American painting. Many of my curatorial projects have been focused on the works of some of the seminal painters of the 20th century. I've done a series of exhibitions at Paul Kasmin Gallery on the work of Stuart Davis. I worked with Kasmin on a number of projects. Another one was a exhibition of sculptures by Elie Nadelman, who is artist who came to the United States from Europe and is considered part of the canon of modern American painting or sculpture, really. He's not a painter, he is a sculptor. I've also done projects with smaller galleries where I've curated relevant shows of young, relatively unknown artists. And that's always fun. I enjoy doing that. That's really a wonderful way for me to dive in and learn about what's going on out there amongst a group of recent graduates. So that's always exciting and I enjoy that kind of work very, very much. And currently, I think one of the things that I've just started working on is a collaboration with a gallery in London called Pi Artworks and an artist who they represent, whose name is Jyll Bradley. So I also advise the estate of Stuart Davis. Aimee: Yes, it does. And I have a related question, which is that you mentioned having worked with a lot of different genres and periods and different artists in this realm of art history. And while you were going through your education in your early career, was there a certain artist or movement that was particularly influential or touching to you? Priscilla: I'm going to answer that question by giving you a little bit more of my background. I left Northwestern, I moved to New York, and I took a job at a small gallery. And that year of working there were like three people on staff. That was an experience that taught me that I wanted to go back to school and learn to become more expert on something. I wasn't sure exactly what that was going to be, but I needed more skills actually in order to have the sort of job in the art world that I envisioned. I was accepted at Williams, which a small... Everybody's always confused because it's a college, but it has two graduate programs, and one of them is an art history program that's associated with the Clark Art Institute. I was one of 12 students in that following year, entering in to a two-year program. I had the good fortune of... Linda Nochlin was the visiting professor at the time who, if you're not familiar with Linda Nochlin, she was, she died a few years ago, one of the great feminist revisionist art historians of her time. And so studying with Linda, I began to look into the histories of certain artists like Eva Hesse and Jackie Winsor. Eva Hesse, of course, has been dead for many, many years. Jackie Winsor just died recently. At that moment in time, and I'm still very moved by the work and very interested in it, but I was very much focused on the work of minimalist and post-minimalist female sculptors to be extremely specific. That experience studying with Linda and looking into the histories of these women and the difficulties that they faced in a world that discriminates against women was eye-opening for me. And it's informed everything that I've probably done since. Aimee: Well, that's very interesting. And I think it's fascinating how some of these formative pieces of art really brought your eye into the future and your current work. And I know at the Block Museum on campus, we've had several exhibits that kind of follow in line with the types of art that you've just described in terms of the revisionist view of art history, the modernism with their Arabic art exhibit not too long ago. And I'm going to transition us to that because you're currently a member of the Block Museum Advisory Committee, and I just want to hear more about the work that you do there and then how you use that as a way to bring volunteerism and philanthropy into your professional career. Priscilla: I have always felt that volunteering my time to certain organizations in the art world is as important as the work that I do professionally. The idea of giving back, which I think frankly is something that either is kind of... For me, it's something that was ingrained in me as a young person. I try to only align myself with organizations whose missions I agree with. And that kind of mission usually includes a sort of mentorship for young artists so that there's a teaching element, which I think is really important. And also this sense of inclusion and diversity in institutions at every level. It's not just the artists that you're showing, but also in integration into the organization itself so that it represents the world in a sense. I mean, that's kind of big, but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying. I sit on the advisory board, and I mean, I think that I help in a number of different ways, but I have a feeling that my experience in the commercial art world and my interaction with lots of different artists and different galleries helps the director and the curatorial department in different ways. I can shed some insight sometimes that is useful. And of course, there are other people on the advisory board, not just me, who have similar experiences. My colleague Steve Henry, who is a classmate of mine, is one of the directors, one of the partners, not directors at Paula Cooper Gallery here in New York, so he sits on the advisory board with me as well. I think Lisa has been very wise in the way that she's chosen the members of her board, where we all contribute important things in different ways. Aimee: Absolutely. And I'm curious, outside of the Block, what other organizations do you volunteer your time to? Priscilla: Right now, the Block is my focus, but I was for a long time on the board of an organization here in New York. It's actually on Long Island City called Sculpture Center, which is a Kunsthalle and a place that essentially acts as an exhibition space oftentimes for artists who live outside the United States to have their first museum exhibition here in the US. It's a place of discovery, I think for a lot of people. It's a place that is very research-based, and they have a very knowledgeable curatorial staff that is very involved in the international art world. They do that. And then they also do a very, what I think is a really important annual exhibition that is an open call to artists that is directed at younger emerging artists, again, who haven't exhibited in an institutional space. And there are funds provided and mentorship provided. And it's a kind of learning lab for a group of artists who then create a group show. There's also a curator who's hired from outside who comes up with a theme for the show, and then they work together to put on these annual exhibitions. And they're amazing shows, and they do great work, and it's a very rich environment. Aimee: Next time I'm in New York, I'd love to come see the gallery. That is so interesting. Priscilla: It's a beautiful space. It's a beautiful, beautiful space in Long Island City. I would be happy to take you there, so let's do that. Aimee: Thank you. Priscilla: Yeah. Aimee: I think we're going to pivot a little bit from your specific career more to the field of art history on the whole, and a big part of being in art history is curating relationships with your clients, which you mentioned previously. What is your advice for students who are looking to foster quick relationships with other people, be it interviewers, co-workers, anyone in the professional world that they need to have a really strong bond with? Priscilla: Well, I will say that when... I did a lot of research on people before I meet them, so that at least I understand what it is that they do, what some of their interests might be. I feel like... I mean, in any case, in any field, if you're going into an interview, if you're meeting somebody for the first time, if it's an important engagement of any sort, it's really good to know who it is, who you're talking to. I think first of all, I would say do your research and figure out, find some interesting things to talk about that will interest the person who you are meeting with. And also will give them a sense that you actually know who they are. I think that's always... That's just flattering for one thing, and it also makes you look like you've paid attention. I used to take every opportunity to go out and do things, and I mean, I go to a lot of openings. I get myself into situations where I will meet people. I think that it can be uncomfortable. You might not know anybody where you're going. You could feel sort of nervous and shy, but I think you have to push yourself to be in situations where you might not feel comfortable, but something will come out of it almost inevitably, and you'll walk away knowing somebody who you didn't know before, and you never know where that's going to lead you. I'm a big believer in that, and I sort of feel like I have two personas. I have the person who doesn't like to do those sorts of things, and then I have the person who has to get up in the morning and go to work and for whom it's a requirement. I think those are two bits of advice that I would have. I mean, for students at Northwestern, of course, if they're looking to create networks for themselves, I mean, they have one, right? I mean, you all have an amazing network through the university, and you have professors who want to support and help you. Again, even though I think sometimes it's difficult to push yourself to go in and talk to your professors, they are there for that reason and they want to support the student body and see them be successful and help you to find things outside of the university that will engage you and also perhaps end up being a path towards a career. I don't know if all of that necessarily answers your question, but you've got... I think sometimes you wake up in the morning and you think that you don't have the tools at your fingertips, but you do and you just have to press the button. Aimee: That's good advice. I think a lot of times students at Northwestern are too timid to take advantage of many of those resources. That's really good advice. I have a little bit of background for this last question, which is that I, myself, was an artist history major for two years, dropping the major because I realized I was never going to get a job in art history because I don't necessarily have a family background or the connections to leverage to get a job in art history. And I was just curious, understanding that art history enrollment is rapidly declining. The cover story of the Nation magazine in early April was about how art history enrollment is declining. What advice would you offer to people who might not traditionally undertake a career in art history who are interested in becoming art historians or people in the art world? Priscilla: I think that oftentimes when people approach the idea of being an art historian or being in the art world, that they don't think broadly enough about all of the different things that happen in the art world. Of course, the glamorous jobs are to be a curator at a museum and to be a director or a principal at a gallery. And frankly, not everybody... I mean, as far as gallery work is concerned, really... I mean, there's curation going on, but it's sales primarily. So that might not be for everybody for one thing. Sales is not exactly the job that everybody wants to have. But what I've been thinking about a lot recently, and certainly a lot of the people in the art world who I rely very, very heavily on and whose expertise is impressive are there are registrarial departments at galleries and museums. Those are people who work with the objects and who have to deal with whether it's insurance or packing or moving objects from one country to another. And all of these things, while it may sound less glamorous, are still very interesting and complicated. And so those are jobs, I think that certainly registrarial departments, we depend on them. They're extremely important. And they have their own networks as well, by the way. There's also art restoration and working directly with objects, which is an interesting kind of combination of the scientific and the art historical. Especially for people who are interested in the sciences, there's an application for that in the art world. And there's a lot of ways of... There's all sorts of things that happen like carbon dating and various different X-ray techniques and all sorts of things that help to say define an object isn't really what I mean. But you have to understand organic chemistry in order to be a painting conservator. I think that we should think maybe differently about the art world a little bit than we do sometimes. And art history will inform all of those things. I mean, all of those people who are working in those different departments need to understand art history. They probably wouldn't even be doing that work unless they did. But you can come at it from a different angle. And I think that that's something that should probably be more emphasized. We need more art conservators out there. We really do. And there are a lot of objects to work on. Aimee: Definitely. Definitely. And I have one more follow-up question on that, which is my worst job I ever worked was at the American Museum of Western Art. I love the museum. I think it's a beautiful museum. I love pictures of cowboys, my favorite genre, but at the same time, it was just scanning documents all day as an unpaid internship. And I think that finances are often a really big barrier to entry for people in art history, given the precedence of unpaid internships, years long fellowships where you're not compensated. I'm just going to narrow in on my question, which is what advice would you give to people from non-traditional backgrounds who want to pursue a job in art history at all? Priscilla: Well, a lot of graduate programs now are fully funded, so that might be something to explore a little bit. I know that for instance, Williams, there are a lot of... I don't know that every single one of them, but many of those students are fully funded and also receive help with living expenses, health insurance, all of their expenses are accounted for. That isn't exactly what you're asking me. But I do think that it's good to... If art history is something that you're serious about, and frankly, if something you're serious about an advanced degree is something to consider, there are programs that will essentially fully fund you to study. So that's one potential way. The art world's a little hard actually in terms of entry-level jobs, and people aren't really paid a living wage. And I would like to know a way around that, too. It's a funny thing. It does prevent a lot of people who are gifted and able and should have access to the field, it probably prevents them from entering the field and that's our loss really. Aimee: I totally agree. And hopefully, we'll see some change in that arena during our lifetimes. Priscilla: I hope so. Yeah. I wish I had a better answer to your question, but also I think that when people go in for interviews, sometimes you are hesitant to be realistic about what you need. And I do think that there's no harm in being forthright about that. That's just a practicality, and you should expect it. Aimee: Yes, self-advocacy is very important. And I think that leads us to our very last question. This is our closeout question we ask every interviewee, which is what advice would you give to a senior in college who is about to graduate? From any field, from any major, what advice do you have for young people in this transitional moment? Priscilla: Well, try not to be discouraged. The world is in upheaval right now, but it won't remain that way. Or I think that we hope that it won't, and we've got to believe that it won't. And that it's funny. This is a kind of big question right now, Aimee. Also, don't close yourself off to opportunities that may not fit exactly into the vision of what you have for yourself. I mean, we do meander sometimes, and I think that it's actually important to because you learn a lot about yourself when you sort of take a fork in the road that you didn't expect that you might. I guess proceed without fear if it's possible, and have confidence in yourself. I mean, anybody who's graduating from Northwestern has done an amazing... They're capable. You're able. You can go out there and get it done. So yeah, I guess we all just remain... I know it sounds sort of like trite, but be positive. Aimee: Absolutely. That's all we can do. All we can do is control our own- Priscilla: Yeah. And fight and stand up for the things that you believe in. Give me the opportunity. Say it, say it out loud. Say what you mean. Don't be scared that somebody might disagree with you. Aimee: Absolutely. It's tough to keep that in mind with the current challenges the university is facing, but that is very good advice. I just want to say in general, thank you so much for your great advice and for chatting with us today. I think this podcast will be so helpful to many students who are interested in either going into art history or just looking at the state of the world right now. So thank you for being with us. Priscilla: Aimee, thank you. You're a very impressive young woman, I appreciate the invitation and it was fun talking to you. Aimee: Thank you. So to all of our listeners, thank you for listening to this special episode of the Weinberg in the World Podcast. We hope you have a great day and go Cats.
May 20, 202521 min
Waldron Career Conversation with Natasha Philips '00 & Preena Schroff '26
Preena: Welcome to the Weinberg in the World Podcast, where we bring stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. My name is Preena Shroff and I'm your student host of this special Weinberg in the World episode. I'm a third year student majoring in neuroscience and global health studies with a minor in data center. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Natasha Phillips, who graduated from Weinberg College in 2000 with a Bachelor of Arts in sociology and biology. Natasha currently serves as chief marketing officer for GE Healthcare, leading teams that help healthcare providers design treatment plans for their patients. Natasha, thank you so much for being here with us today. Natasha: Thanks for having me, Preena. It's a pleasure. Preena: We are so excited to learn about your work in healthcare marketing, but would love to start out with how your career path was shaped by your time at Northwestern. Maybe you can tell us more about your undergraduate experience, what were some impactful classes, extracurriculars, or mentorships opportunities that you had which impacted your post-graduate career? Natasha: Yeah. You're making me think a little bit, because I got to go back in time. As an undergraduate, I was super lucky, having both a biology and a sociology major, it gave me the ability to see a very wide range of classes. I wasn't 100% sure actually what I wanted to do. I knew I was somewhat interested in the sciences. I didn't actually know I would be that interested in the social sciences, but I took a couple of classes. One in particular was the Sociology of Race and Ethnicity with Charlie Moskos, which actually made me decide to ... That was the reason I became a sociology major. I just got super lucky, I loved that class. It's funny, if I ever had a second life, I always say I would have loved to have gone back and been a sociology professor. But I didn't take that path, I went more with the actual biology side of things. I was weighing, do I want to do research? I actually was really interested in molecular biology, primarily because in the late '90s, which is a very long time ago to our students who are listening, but for me that was a time very formative because they were sequencing the human genome. There was a lot of promise in the space, not only of biology, but more specifically molecular biology and how it is linked to genetics and genomics as we think about the impact on healthcare. That really interested me to the point where I really was considering actually getting my PhD in molecular biology. Some of my favorite classes were the ones in which I had exposure to research, because I got to see the importance of just the impact that research can have. And the ability to be able to find a practical application, even if it's on a very specific question, to really contribute to the body of knowledge. Ultimately ended up being unsure what I wanted to do right after undergrad, so I went into healthcare consulting in which I wanted to be able to figure out, do I want to go towards the more business side of healthcare and thinking about commercializing healthcare and science from the industry side of things? Or to the academic side and actually get my PhD, and think about contributing to science and healthcare in that realm. I did have exposure, both in consulting as well as in research. I started in a research program at the University of Chicago in molecular biology after doing consulting so I could see both sides. And ultimately, actually, that was when I made the decision to focus much more so on the business side of it and to get my MBA, and to move into healthcare marketing. That led me into the career in which I've had today, in which I've been very lucky to have over 15 years working at very large multinational healthcare companies, primarily in sales and marketing roles, bringing innovation in healthcare to people all over the globe. Preena: Absolutely. Wow, yeah. I think your path is actually not only a common path that students seek out, but also something that students might end up finding themselves in, even if they do experience a career switch in their life. That's really interesting to hear about. I have another question for you, more specifically job-oriented. Healthcare is constantly evolving, so maybe you can tell us a little bit about how your marketing approach has changed since you began your career? Natasha: Yeah. I love that question, Preena, because what really is happening is healthcare is evolving and the function of marketing is evolving constantly. I am really lucky that, both in the subject matter that I basically have decided to focus in, which is healthcare and ultimately the innovation around healthcare, but also have a really cool and exciting function that continues to evolve. I was lucky enough during my ... Maybe I'll start with the functional part, I'll start with marketing first, and then I'll talk about healthcare. The basic function of marketing has changed significantly over the past 20 years as I've been a marketer, primarily with the advent of digital and social media. It continues now to evolve, as we think about personalized marketing and AI, and what that's going to do. I would say the main changes that I've seen over time has been from a very I would say structured, one size fits all, if you think about it like mass media type of marketing in which there was a time in which you had one singular message and one singular way of approaching individuals, and not a lot of channels to reach them. To now, moving to almost a fully personalized marketing experience, where you have the ability with technology today to be able to say, even if you have thousands of targets, how do you understand the fine differences. There's got to be some generalization amongst those targets, but there's also some fine differences in how people consume their information, care about interacting with your brand, and want to be able to either become loyal brand advocates or detractors. How do you understand what those insights are to create an ongoing personalized journey that evolves over time with the individual as their media consumption and interest in whatever product you're selling changes? That's been one of the coolest innovations to think about, as we think about the function. If I look at healthcare, I've been lucky enough to see innovation across a variety of different segments within healthcare. I'd seen the advent of biologics. If we think about innovation from a healthcare point of view, in basically the last 20 years or so, we've seen drugs like Humira, which started the biologic class and has now exploded into one of the largest categories or segments within healthcare. And the significant impact that that has had on millions of patients, and has changed diseases all the way from skin conditions to much more serious autoimmune type of conditions. I've been lucky enough to see innovation on the diagnostic side, in which I've seen the advent of brand new technologies, including things like multi-plexing. Of taking a single sample, and instead of wanting to get one answer, you can get anywhere from 25 to 30 answers of which virus of which disease somebody has. And the impact that that has had not only on just healthcare, but on infectious disease and vaccines in other parts. For me, what has actually kept me so motivated in healthcare for so long is it isn't just an idea. I get to be part of the teams, and it's a cross-functional team that includes everybody from scientists, research and developers, operations, medical affairs, clinical affairs, marketers, salespeople, finance people, and everybody, I'm sure I'm forgetting some functions. It is such a complex effort to bring innovation like this to market and sometimes can take 10 to 15 years, but when it happens you actually see significant change in healthcare. For me, that's the ability to think even 30, 40 years from now, some of the either diagnostics, devices, or drugs that I've helped to bring to market will really have an impact. Either because it continues to improve healthcare or it was the precursor of future innovation that's going to continue to come because we've paved the way for it, so it's really cool. Preena: Absolutely. That's really incredible. And the way you're able to work with people of many different fields and backgrounds, and then learn from them as well is a really incredible experience, and I hope defines a lot of students' careers in the future as well. Natasha: Yeah. I think just to add to that, the one thing to really keep in mind is I love the interdisciplinary approach that a really good college in arts and sciences like Weinberg does. Because for me, that kind of thinking, although I didn't understand it at the time because I was just a student and I had no clue what I was actually going to do, is something that to this day in my career I think back to and I leverage. It's helped to make me successful, especially in a very large matrix cross-functional organization. It's something that, as all of you who are students potentially listening to this and are thinking, "What might I do in the future?" Really leverage the opportunities that you have to do that kind of interdisciplinary type of work because it will make you much stronger in whatever field you decide to do. Preena: Yeah, absolutely. Going off of that, a bit in the other direction, but what is a common misconception about working in the healthcare marketing industry? Natasha: That is a great question. This is maybe a little controversial, but I'm going to say it. I think there is this perception of big, bad pharma and big, bad healthcare. I think it's something that is an understandable point of view and one which requires probably much more dialogue than what we can answer here. But I'll just leave people with this one thought. Which is if you think about most of the major innovations that have come to healthcare over the last 30 years, whether it's drugs to treat high blood pressure or hypertension, or innovations in diagnostics as I mentioned to be able to not just understand what's happening from blood count, but to be able to look at the molecular and cellular level to treat rare diseases and everything in the middle. Much of that innovation, while it is funded and founded in the basic research that happens at academic and other institutions, has really been driven by the industry. Whether it's the pharmaceutical industry, the med device industry, the diagnostic industry. That requires significant investment and significant time. It also requires a very high failure rate. In some cases, if you have 100 compounds or 100 ideas that you're bringing through, less than 1% of them will sometimes make it to market. There is a significant amount of investment that needs to happen. While there's always optimizations that could happen, I always implore people to think about the fact that the drug that your mother or father is taking today, or that your brother or sister is taking for asthma, didn't exist probably even 20 or 30 years ago because we didn't have the funding and innovation that was coming necessarily maybe from companies that has been pushing that forward. While there is a lot of discussion to be had about healthcare and the rights to healthcare, I think companies like mine, whether it's my current company or previous company, have played a very important role in really helping to improve overall health and healthcare as we think about the impact on people's lives. I just ask people to be open to the fact that there's always a variety of different vantage points and it's always a great healthy dialogue to have. Preena: Of course, yeah. From what you said, it sounds like it's a bit of a trade-off and it's really important to discover where you fit in within that sphere, and learn how to interpret your work and your path in that direction as well. Just realizing what impact you're making and picturing that longterm. Natasha: Yeah, exactly. Preena: Okay. Then, I was also going to ask you about the student perspective, thinking about students today. How would you recommend students cultivate a personal brand? A lot of times people say networking. How do students network authentically, both online and in-person so that they can find the right opportunities or even the right opportunities can find them? Natasha: Yeah, I think it's a really great question. I very much will reiterate the importance of networking because I think that's foundational and fundamental to everything that we do today. In fact, many of you who got into very competitive colleges probably had to figure that out as you were even thinking about how to get into the school that you're in today. That thought process needs to continue as you think about getting your first job, or maybe you're getting your next pre-professional school that you're focused on. I would take that networking to the next step to say I think some of the most effective networking has two really good components. I find this, because I have a lot of people who maybe reach out to me, either through my network or because they're looking for learning about marketing or healthcare, or other topics that maybe I've had some experience with. The first of those two things is really having a genuine brand, and one in which you really own and feel passionate about. The most interesting and coolest networking that I do, even with students today, are the ones in which people are very purposeful about what they are interested in, what they care about, what their brand is. It's probably hard to even think about me as a college student, what is my brand? But you have a brand. You may not know it yet, but you definitely have and can develop a brand. That brand should be whatever you feel truly passionate and genuinely interested in, because that will only I would say help you have much more successful networking and much more genuine connections with the people that you are trying to connect with. Even if that individual maybe doesn't understand or isn't that maybe close to the topic, you'd be shocked how just that genuine authenticity is going to help drive really stronger connections in networking that are going to help both you, as well as the network that you're creating, as you think about the fact that one day you're going to have a network and you're going to want to be able to pay it forward to students the way maybe people are helping you with your decisions and career today. The second one as you think about networking is a lot of times, networking and finding a good fit, whether it's a company or your next pre-professional program, or what you even want to do, is based on having a shared purpose with whoever you're networking with or whatever that institution is. I find the people who come and are most prepared for interviews, in addition to feeling very genuine and knowing what their brand is, are the people who are very clear on what my purpose, either as an institution is, or whatever group I'm part of. They understand that and it is very much akin to who they are, what they're looking for, what makes them passionate. That sense of shared purpose in networking I think is another way in which you can more successfully think about how do you take your decisions or whatever you're going to do next in your career path and be more successful in terms of what you want to do. Then the last thing I would say is don't feel super ... I know everybody's pressured to feel like they know exactly what they want to do and I understand that. I'm sure many of the people who are listening to this are very high performing, have always been very successful in life, have known exactly what they want to do. But there's a lot of benefit to maybe giving yourself the luxury of knowing you have a very long marathon ahead of you, as you think about the decision making in your career choices that you're going to make. If there's ever a time to be open to it, it's probably earlier in your career when you're maybe more willing to not only take some risks, but also be true to what you actually think will be interesting to you over a longterm career. Don't be afraid if it's not going to be a straight line. It might be a really curvy, cool path. At the time, it might feel a little discouraging, but don't be discouraged. Because I would argue, if I look back, some of my coolest decisions were the ones in which it wasn't this straight line, very clear path of what I wanted to do. But rather, I was either more open because of external circumstances or internal motivation to being a little bit more flexible and not so purposeful, and everything must be this in this timeframe. I think if you have some openness to that, it will really help you and probably put a lot less pressure on you as you're thinking about your career. Preena: Right. Yeah, that's really great advice. In terms of winding paths, switching over to your career and more of your day-to-day role, what would say is a challenge or challenges that you often find or encounter in your day-to-day role and how do you approach those? Natasha: That's a good question. My challenges in my day-to-day role. I'm fortunate in which I lead a functional team, so I have the benefit of having an amazing team that I work with every day across a variety of brands and products, across a very diverse portfolio. I've been lucky enough to do that at this current company, which is GE Healthcare, and the previous company I was at which is Abbott. Many times, if I think about the biggest challenges in my day-to-day, it really is around I would say three big areas. The first one is when you are such a large matrix company that is so dependent on your other functional teams, to ensure that you are all very clear on what the goal is, what you're all trying to accomplish, and that you're all rowing in the same direction, and have shared purpose and goals. Often times in our day-to-day, even in companies where you think everybody's on the same team, you can often find that there's actually sometimes a bit of misalignment or competing priorities. Sometimes that's because we're different functions or groups, sometimes it's because we're different segments. Sometimes it's just because we don't understand that shared goal. It's keeping everybody aligned to the mission, strategy, and vision. I would say as marketers actually, I feel like we are big drivers of that in an organization. It's something I always feel very responsible for and want to help my team feel very responsible for. That's the first one. The second one is we work in a very complex landscape. We're highly regulated here in healthcare. We want to do the right thing. Actually, I always tell people I'm so glad that we're highly regulated because the decisions we make actually impact life or death. It's actually for all the right reasons that we have very strict regulatory and approval processes, and then ongoing monitoring of all of our activities from our quality processes to our commercial processes and everything in between. But that can bring a lot of complexity. You've got to navigate a lot of sometimes tough legal and compliance discussions. But at the end of the day, the way we navigate them successfully as a team is really by reminding ourselves that the reason these regulations exist is to keep patients, our own family members who are consuming healthcare every day safe. We're able to do that. I feel we, despite sometimes difficult discussions, always get to the best answer in doing what's right for the patient and what's right for healthcare. Then the third thing, which is I think sometimes hard, is we all come to work every day because we actually care about healthcare and saving lives. That's sometimes really hard to remember when you get stuck in your day-to-day. You can be at a tough meeting, or a really hard strategy review, or a really hard finance review, or maybe you're missing your number in this sales goal. But at the end of the day, those hard days are really worth it because of what ultimately we're bringing to patients all over the globe. Again, there are these challenges, but over a long career I've been able to figure out how to successfully navigate them. So that I feel that even the challenges motivate me to come to work, and figure it out, and be better tomorrow. Better today and tomorrow than I was yesterday and in the past. I try to motivate my teams to think about that in the same way. Preena: Absolutely. Oh, yeah, that was very insightful. I think a lot of these can be applied to any fields, because a lot of times, in healthcare specifically, there is definitely life and death impacts. Then in other fields, people can have those same hard conversations and still need to have that resilience and build up that resilience to come back from that. Natasha: Very true. Very, very true. Probably very similar, just maybe different categories, but very similar discussions that would happen- Preena: Absolutely. Natasha: ... outside of healthcare, too. Preena: Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you very much for sharing this with us and thank you for joining us today. That is all the questions I have. We really value your time, and for coming on and speaking to all of our students. Thank you very much. Natasha: Thank you for having me. It was pleasure to talk to you.
May 9, 202527 min
Waldron Career Conversation with Rachel Pike '06 and April Wang '27
April: Welcome to the Weinberg in the World Podcast where we bring stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. My name is April and I'm your student host of this special episode of the podcast. I'm a second year student studying physics and integrated science, and I'm looking forward to learning more about our guest's career. Today, I'm excited to be speaking with Rachel Pike who graduated from Northwestern in 2006 and is now COO at Modern Treasury. Thank you, Rachel, for taking the time to speak with me today. Rachel: Nice to be here. Nice to meet you April. April: You too. To start us off today, I was wondering if you could tell us more about your time at Northwestern as an undergrad. What did you study? And how did you get to your current career path? Rachel: Oh, man, two different parts. The easy part is to say what I did at Northwestern, so I majored in chemistry, physical chemistry specifically. I had a minor in African studies through the center or program for African Studies. And I did my honors chemistry work with Franz Geiger, Professor Franz Geiger in the chemistry department. So that's sort of the what. My major extracurricular was Fusion Dance Company. That's where I spent a lot of my time. How I went from there to here is such a circuitous, crazy path. It is not direct. I left Northwestern and did a Gates scholarship, I did a PhD in chemistry at Cambridge. Loved it, but I was not meant to be a professor. You could ask John Pyle or Franz Geiger, both of whom advised me. It's just it takes a very certain wonderful mindset, but it's not me, to be a lifelong academic. So I left academics and got an amazing role in venture capital and got to learn all about startups from the investing side. Did that for just over four years. And in my last couple years, started getting really close to one of our companies and operating with them and ended up launching products for them and got the bug. Realized that that was a better calling, a better match for me, which we can talk more about what I mean by that. And moved into operating, so then I worked for a health tech healthcare software company and then I moved here into FinTech. So it sort of couldn't be more random, but also each step made sense only as one step. It's just as a sum, they lead you very far from where you were. Not normal in any sense, but in the end I just don't think anything is normal. All paths turn out to be good as you make these accumulation of small decisions. April: Yeah, okay. What are the most challenging and rewarding aspects of your current job then? Rachel: There's a lot. The hardest thing in a startup, there's so many things that are hard about startups, growing startups, but prioritization and focus is one of the hardest things. And you have to actually prioritize not doing things you want to do, which is very antithetical to what it's like to be a driven, hungry person and be in a company of 200 driven, hungry people. You want to do everything that you see that seems like a big opportunity and a challenge that we need to fix, but you can't. There just literally is not enough time in the day and there's opportunity cost to lack of focus. So I think the hardest thing is, the phrase I always use with my teams is you have to let that fire burn. You just have to pick things that you know are broken that you're not going to fix, that it's not the highest priority thing to fix or things you want to work on that you know we just can't go work on that thing right now, we have to work on this other thing. So it's very counterintuitive and I would say that's the hardest thing to learn when you enter startups, how to get through that kind of mindset. April: Yeah, prioritization is pretty hard when there's so many options. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, when there's so many options and when you're hungry and you feel like a small startup is always up against big Goliaths, so there's a billion things you can do to go after companies that are bigger. So I would say that's the hardest in terms of not the content of what we do is the wrong word, but what Modern Treasury builds and how we bring it and sell it in the market and how we run the company. Letting fires burn and ruthless prioritization is the most unnatural part of working for a startup, I would say. On the interpersonal part, so not what we do, but how we do it, like in every stage of life and everywhere I've been, the hardest part of anything is getting really good at giving and receiving feedback. And that is a lifelong, you have to dedicate your life to it and using that to make decisions with people. April: Could you talk a little bit more about what your company does and what your role is? Rachel: Yeah, sure. So I'm chief operating officer of Modern Treasury. Modern Treasury is a payment operations software platform. So we help companies of all sizes, from other startups to huge big public companies, manage their money movement. And it sort of sounds like a back office thing, but really, we actually mostly get bought by product and engineering teams. And those product and engineering teams that are our customers want to do payment stuff. They want to build a digital wallet or embed payments in their application. Or we also serve non-tech companies, so you're buying a house and you need to pay the real estate agent or you're buying a house and you have to go through the title and escrow process on that home purchase. A lot of money moves around in those businesses. In fact, it's core to all of those products to move and manage and track money. So we build the software for that. Complex payment systems get built on top of us and complex payment products. We have an engineering database product called Ledgers, which is how you, with high performance and perfect fidelity, track balances, which is a really hard computer science problem, although it seems that it should be easy. It's a very hard computer science problem. And then you can imagine that as we grow and have more and more data and understanding, we're building more and more AI into our platform, so teams can run in a safe way with AI helping them. So anyway, yeah, it's a complicated thing that we do, but we help companies move and manage their money movement. April: Okay, cool. So how well did college prepare you for this career, do you think? Or what was the most important skill that you learned from college? Rachel: There's so many things that you learn in college as you sort of separate from home life and become your own person. I think there's soft skills and hard skills. I obviously don't use the traditional academic knowledge that I got in my undergrad and graduate experiences in chemistry, not a chemist anymore. But I don't think there's anything that can replace scientific training in how to think and pursue questions and how to separate how to go through a research process and understand and also understand the limits of your knowledge. That is a very profound experience the more advanced you get in science. I didn't even get that advanced. But in understanding the boundaries of what the community of scientists knows and what personally and how to ask questions, build a hypothesis, and go again. And I know that the hypothesis process is something you learn in like second grade or fourth grade or whatever, you go to school, but truly, that process is very hard, like holding yourself to a standard of making a rigorous, very thought out hypothesis and understanding what would prove or disprove that. In a scientific setting in a lab, sometimes it's a little easier to go through that process. Hey, if this experiment works, I'll see X. In a business environment, that's actually very hard. How do you measure? Is that metric actually counting that? What else is getting conflated into these signals and systems? And then almost everything, unless it's something like website clicks or latency or something that's directly measurable, almost all the signal that you get is mediated through people. So not only do you have to go through this process of trying to constantly get to truth, everything that you're trying to pursue is going through people. So I would say academically, that's the longest lasting impression for me. My team gets annoyed because I say things like rate-limiting step all the time, which is a chemistry phrase. So it taught me how to think. I think another very impactful part of my college, two other very impactful parts of my college experience, Fusion was just getting started, I was one of the people that helped get it started. And starting a club that is, very proud to say it's long-standing and I could never audition and get accepted today, is a lot like starting any organization. How do you run things? What is governance like? How do you navigate people? What are the expectations? How do you communicate that? How do you do things excellently? Starting and building a club is very similar to starting and building an organization, it's just we get a lot more complicated with time. So I learned a lot in that process and running rehearsals and putting on a show and what it's like to run an audition process. I have very fond memories of that. And lastly, I would say is I studied abroad for all of junior year. And I don't know if this is true, but someone along the way of me, because chemistry has so many sequential requirements, and it was very hard for me to figure out how to do those requirements and still be away for a year, someone along the way told me I was the only chemistry major who was ever away for a year then. It's probably not true now. I also don't know if that's true, speaking of rigorous hypotheses, so that's an aside. But the experience of being abroad, I was in Tanzania, was obviously profoundly eye-opening. And being in multiple cultural contexts, not just for travel, but for a long period of time with real life, day-to-day life, it just changed my whole perspective on the world. And then same thing, I lived abroad again for my PhD, so I was abroad on and off again for about like five out of six years. It really changed my perspective on the world, my perspective on people, and I only got that opportunity because of college. April: Yeah, college is a great time to study abroad and do those things. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. April: [inaudible 00:09:31] possibilities, yeah. Also, it's so interesting to hear that you found Fusion or helped found it because it's such a big thing on campus now. Rachel: It's such a huge thing now. April: [inaudible 00:09:39]. Rachel: Yeah, no. We really grew it, but it was small when we started. We were just in parades and doing small shows, and then we finally started putting shows on in Tech my last two years there. It was very fun, really meaningful experience. April: That's great. Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. April: Then you kind of touched a little bit on this, but could you elaborate more on the biggest adjustment you had to make going from undergrad to industry? Rachel: I actually got this piece of advice when I went from my PhD to venture. I went and had coffee. One of the coolest things about Silicon Valley and the technology community is that it's very open and if you ask people for advice, they're really open to giving it and having conversations like this, but times 10. So one of the coffees I had was with someone who had also had a PhD and moved into venture. And he said something to me that has always stuck with me, which is the biggest adjustment you're going to have to make is the complete lack of rigor in business decisions, which is hysterical, and I don't think fully true, which I'll explain, but it is true, the standards of rigor in academic science are completely different than the standards of rigor in making a business decision. So I always think about that moment of you got to get used to the fact that they make decisions with less information. I think that's only partially true. I think one of the reasons is true is what we talked about, that data is often mediated through people, and so it doesn't feel as rigorous. But actually, the decisions you're making about and with people are just as important. It's just different, and that is a very big adjustment. There is not always right. It's not a test or a thesis or whatever, and that's a big change. There's just making a decision and then owning the consequences of the decision and upside of the decision. But that, it's a huge change. So that's what I would say one of the biggest adjustments that I had to make. On a more practical basis, specifically like Silicon Valley and startups, they're just opportunities, they are roles, sorry, environments with very little management structure. That's the whole point, you're doing something from scratch. There's not someone telling you what to do. That's not true if you go into industry and go to a very big technology company or a bunch of industries I've never been in that are managed in totally different ways. That obviously is like two hops from undergrad. I had a PhD and then I had time in investing. But yeah, working without a lot of oversight, also a big change. April: [inaudible 00:11:58]. The training you get from undergrad to grad school and then going to industry, it's a bit of an adjustment, but yeah. Rachel: Yeah. April: It's an interesting problem, how you would apply your scientific training to the business world. Rachel: Yeah. What do we know and what do we not know, is a question I often try and ask myself. In fact, I was thinking about it late last night about something we're trying to figure out in our business. And it's hard because you sometimes feel like you know things that you don't. It's a trick of the brain. April: Then sort of related, but what are some current trends that you're seeing in the industry or in the area that you work or some of the modern day challenges? Rachel: I would be remiss if I didn't say the most enormous trend in technology right now is AI. So there's sort of no other answer you can give them that, this unbelievable explosion in technical capability and then it's application into all kinds of industries. So I don't know, Modern Treasury has been such an interesting ride. One of the things that is interesting about startups is you really cannot predict the world around you. So this tiny company, we're not tiny anymore, but this company that was tiny, I was the first employee, it was just the four of us, just us chickens in a co-working space, trying to build this payment operations company. And in the interim, COVID happened and we could never work together again until many years later. And then Silicon Valley Bank crashed and there were multiple bank failures all over the country. If that had happened two years earlier, it would've taken our business down. As it happened, it accelerated our business like, oh my god, better lucky than good. Now we're going through an AI transformation. Crypto has gone up and down three times in those six and a half years. It's just wild what happens around you and how that affects the work you do day to day. So I don't know. One thing I would say is things are unpredictable. I have never learned that more than in this particular job I'm in now. April: For sure. Would you say that kind of unpredictability is characteristic of working at a startup versus a larger company or even in academia, for example? Rachel: It's a good question. I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer because I've never worked in a huge company. I've always worked in... Investing is also in the business of startups, so I don't think I'm the right person to answer. I think I have a hypothesis that it affects you less. If you're in a big established company where things don't go, the amplitude of the curve isn't quite the same level, I don't think you necessarily feel it as much. AI is happening to everyone no matter where you work, right? I assume you're all using it every day in your undergraduate environment. So that's universal. I think how it affects your job or what you're using it for is probably different. If you're a computer science undergrad, it's really affecting what your experience is like compared to five years ago. If you're a physical chemistry undergrad like I was, doing some frequency generations two floors below in the basement of Tech, I'm sure it's helping on the research side, but nothing changes the lasers but hands yet, until the AI robots come. So I just think it depends how much the volatility affects your certain area of pursuit. April: That makes sense, yeah. So with all this volatility, how do you approach work-life balance? Rachel: I don't think there is any, in all honesty. My mornings are totally insane between the 27 things I'm trying to do, and I'm always later than I want to be to my first meeting, and that just is what it is. I actually have a four-page document called Working with Rachel and for people to get to know what it's like to work with me when I hire and bring on new teams or new managers, et cetera. And one of the things that's in here is my mornings are insane and I'm always late and I'm totally frazzled and whatever, but I can almost always talk in the afternoons and nights almost any day. You just have to know your rhythm. Exercise is a huge part of my management of work-life balance. So probably started before Fusion, but definitely long, hard dance practices helped me get through undergrad. And at every phase of life I've sort of had a different exercise, deep exercise pursuit and crutch, I would say, to get through the craziness of life. So that's really important for me personally to focus and, I don't know, just get to a different level than the overly intellectual all the time, brainwave level into the body and into the breath. So that's huge. And then more tactically, I'm terrible about always having my phone around, but I do always have my laptop on do not disturb. So when I'm working in my environment, Slack and email are going constantly nonstop, especially Slack. So if I actually want to write or actually want to read or actually want to listen, the pings don't help. But to do my job, I need to be ever present with my teams. So just practically, it's always on do not disturb, and then I pick when I check. So I don't know, that goes from small to big of how I manage and cope with work-life balance, but it's the truth. April: There's some pretty good tips though. Sympathize. Rachel: Do people in Northwestern use Slack? Is that part of an undergrad life or no? April: Some of the clubs use it. I have a couple- Rachel: More texting? April: Yeah, they use GroupMe. Yeah. And then I know a lot of the research labs use Slack. Rachel: Oh, that makes sense. April: Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. But less of the all in every day, all encompassing, et cetera. April: Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. April: Do you think those work-life balance habits were developed during your graduate school years or in college or as you go into industry? Rachel: I don't know about do not disturb because technology has, not technology, but the physical hardware of communication has advanced so much. I'm so old compared to you guys. And when I was an undergrad, Facebook came out when I was a sophomore. So just think about how different of a world it was then. We had really kludgy Hermes email, Hermes email server at Northwestern. So the never ending notification encroach on our life, it existed then. And of course, we texted, but we texted T9. So it's just a different world. So we had it and obviously we all needed to learn how to focus, but not to the extent that it is a challenge for people in college and PhD programs now, I don't think. That's my guess as an outsider. But some things, like exercise, 100%. I think those things get developed earlier on. But once you're in university, it's your decision to continue to pursue them and how much you pursue them and how much they're a part of the rhythm of your life. So that, I would say for sure, I established for myself at Northwestern. April: Was there anything at Northwestern that you wish you had participated in that you didn't? Or the other way around, that you did but you wish you had opted out? Rachel: I wish I'd done dance marathon earlier. I only did it senior year and it was like what an incredible experience. Once you had the experience, then you realize, oh, I should have been doing this the whole time because it's like, I don't know, it's just something you could only do in an all encompassing environment like that. My major regret at Northwestern is actually academic, which is a silly small choice, but I studied French in elementary and high school and I really wanted to learn Spanish as a California person. So I took it in college, but that ate up a lot of quarters of getting my language credit because I was going from scratch. So my regret, and I'm not very good at languages anyway, so it's not like it stuck around, my regret is actually not that I took it, it came from good intentions, but that I used up six possibilities of taking classes in non-chemistry, non-African studies. Just you're spoiled for opportunity in undergrad of going to learn about everything. And it's one of the amazing parts about Northwestern and the way they do the core curriculum, that everyone has to learn a little bit of everything somehow. And that's my biggest regret. I regret not taking a philosophy class or a whatever. I took one world religion class, but should I have taken two. That breadth is the thing that I crave and miss. And by the time you get to PhD, and certainly in the British education system, you specialize earlier, so that opportunity's gone. You can obviously go to lectures and stuff, which I did, but it's not the same as being in a class. So yeah, my biggest I wish I had is I wish I hadn't taken Spanish in that environment and done it some other way and had six quarters to go just do dealer's choice of interesting things in departments I never would've gotten to know. April: Did you have the Weinberg language requirement? Rachel: Yes. April: But you got out of it with French? Rachel: I could have taken I think only one quarter or no, I can't remember how my testing was, sorry. But I could have taken either one quarter or zero quarters of French. But I instead put myself from scratch with Spanish because I've never taken it before. So I don't know, I just think that was good intentions, wrong decision. April: It happens. Rachel: Anyway, yeah, that's my biggest, I don't know, regret is too strong a word, but if I had a magic wand and could do it all over again, I would've taken more general humanities or other types of classes. April: Speaking of classes, what were some of your favorite classes at Northwestern? If you were to- Rachel: Oh my God, do I even remember? April: Yeah. Rachel: The physical chemistry. I don't remember if it's physical chemistry honors class or physical chemistry practicum. It's the last thing you take senior year with real world lab problems. And that class, there were six of us and we were in lab, I don't know, four or five hours twice a week. We were there all the time. It was so hard and so intellectually stimulating. I remember that class extremely well. I remember my world religions class. I don't remember who taught it, but it was the only time I ever studied anything like that. That was interesting. And I remember some of the seminar debates I had with other people. I don't know, those are the two that come to mind. April: Very cool. Now that we're getting towards the end of our time, the last question is if you were to look back on your undergrad, which I suppose we already did a little bit, but what advice would you give, I suppose, other people in your position? Rachel: I have one very specific piece of advice that I give to a lot of undergrads or people early in career, which I can share. And then the other is one that I give all the time now, but I don't know if it's relevant, but I'll share that one too. I'll start with the second one first because it might be less relevant. The one I give now, that is also can be very counterintuitive to people who are working on giving and getting feedback and what it takes to truly manage and motivate teens, is that clarity is more compassionate than kindness. And I don't mean don't be kind because the goal is, of course, to deliver clarity with extreme compassion and care. But it's nerve wracking to tell someone, "You're not meeting expectations for this role," or, "We did not hit our goal as a company and we have to make this really hard decision," or whatever the hard thing is that you have to say. It's harder to say it clearer than to say, "Well, I know you this and what about that, and I'm so sorry and this is hard, blah, blah, blah. But I think maybe the role," and then the person walks away and is like, "I don't know what I heard," and they don't know that they're not meeting expectations. So I would say that took me, it's a lifelong pursuit, I don't think I'm perfect at it yet. No one anywhere in my academic career, undergrad or grad, really taught me that. So that's one. I'm not sure if that's relevant for a sophomore undergrad, but maybe. April: I think so. Rachel: Could be. The advice that I often give to undergrads or very early in career folks, who are either looking for startups or end up whatever. I actually have a call with one this afternoon who's a woman who's a family friend who's thinking about a job change and she's like just wants my advice. I think that one of the unrealistic things that somehow culturally gets imbued in very driven and successful students, like all of the people who get accepted to Northwestern, is that you can have it all in your first job. And that is fucking bullshit. And I think it leads to a huge amount of heartache and angst because it's not true. Now, what you can have is one or two awesome things. So when you're, like you graduated at 21 or 22 or whatever age you are, you have usually no strings attached. You can make incredible broad decisions that you can't make later on and that affords you the opportunity to go do amazing things. But what you can't do is do it all at once in that one first job. So the specific example that I often give is you could pick where you work or what industry you work in or that you make a lot of money, but it is basically impossible to pick all of those things. So if you're a econ undergrad at Northwestern, of which there are many, it's probably pretty hard to work in a mission-driven company, make a 300,000 a year banker undergrad job, and move abroad for that first job as an American, blah, blah. That doesn't exist. If you want to make a lot of money, there are incredible programs with established firms where they really reward you for hard work really early on and that's the trade that that job encompasses. And if that's valuable to you, awesome. But you're probably going to be in one of their major locations and they're unlikely to ship you to Sydney for being 22. If you have the opportunity to go do something extremely mission driven that speaks to you, that's amazing, go do that. But you're probably not necessarily going to pick where or you're not going to be highly compensated. So I often talk to people who are in their early 20s who are like, "But I really want to be in New York, but I really want to work, I want to be in the arts and I want to do this, but I need a lot of money to support this thing." You're like, "You can't have it all." And that's not bad, it's just true. And it's much more compassionate for me to tell you, April, if you want to pursue physics, that's awesome. I was a PhD student. You're not going to make any money in your 20s. April: That's true. Rachel: But you might work at the cutting edge of science in something incredible that super motivates you. That's awesome. So if I could wave a magic wand for undergrads, I would get rid of that angst of that decision making. And the decision can have angst because it can be hard to choose a path, but the you can have it all, I think is a great lie. That's not fair to people in their late teens and early 20s in undergrad. I thought of another one, so I'm going to give you a third, even though you didn't solicit another one. Which is you at the beginning of this you asked about my career, which is kind of all over the place from a traditional perspective. I was in academics and then I went to investing, and then I went to startups. And then in startups, I was in healthcare and I went into payments in FinTech. It's all over the place. Every time I made the jump, everyone around me told me I shouldn't because I was leaving their path. And to be an amazing professor, you stay in academics. So people leaving academics is like, they don't want to give you the advice to do that. Or when you're in investing, the way you stay in it, and particularly in private investing, it's long feedback cycles. You got to stay and practice the craft. So I said, "Hey, I'm an operator at heart. I'm going to go do this thing." Some people encouraged me, but many people said, "Why would you ever do that? Why would you ever leave the job you have? Stay in practice." And then same when I left healthcare and picked a totally new thing. So that's more mid-career advice, which is like it's okay to leave that perfect tracked path and trust your gut. April: Yeah, that's actually really valuable advice, so thank you. Rachel: I hope so. April: Yeah. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to talk with me and to give all this advice to whoever's listening. Rachel: Yeah. It's awesome. Nice to meet you, April. April: Mm-hmm. And thank you for listening to this episode of the Weinberg in the World Podcast. We hope you have a great day and go Cats.
March 18, 202514 min
Waldron Career Conversation with Shiven Shah '99 & Dora Zhang '27
Dora Zhang interviews Shiven Shah, CFO at Libra Solutions, on the "Weinberg in the World" podcast. Shiven discusses his extensive career in finance, including roles at Merrill Lynch, Citi, Peak6, ABN AMRO Clearing Group, and OppFi, where he helped take the company public. He emphasizes the importance of flexibility and teamwork, and highlights the supportive community and lasting relationships he formed at Northwestern University. Transcript: Dora: Welcome to the Weinberg in the World podcast, where we bring stories of interdisciplinary's thinking in today's complex world. My name is Dora Zhang and I'm your student host of the special episode of the podcast. I'm currently a junior studying economics, psychology with an IMC certificate. And today, I'm very excited to be speaking with Mr. Shiven Shah, who is a CFO at Libra Solutions, a PE-backed specialty finance company. Mr. Shiven, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. So to start off, do you mind introducing yourself? Shiven: Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you Dora, for having me on the podcast. My name, as you mentioned, is Shiven Shah. I graduated in Northwestern, the class of '99. So I've just had my 25th year reunion recently, which was great to see a lot of old faces and friends and colleagues from many years ago. So I have had a really tight connection with the Northwestern community. I'm a member of the NULC, helped with admissions committee, and also with some mentoring projects as well. Background wise, I grew up in the Chicago area, right outside of Oak Park, Illinois, which is a western suburb, very similar to Evanston in a lot of ways, a diverse community. And my first choice was Northwestern and I ended up being fortunate enough to be accepted in, and studied economics and minored in statistics. And then I ended up going into a career in finance, starting right after undergrad in New York City at Merrill Lynch in investment banking. I did that for a few years, and then went to business school. I ended up in a financial management program during the financial crisis, and it was really interesting times 2007, 2008, where we had to bail Citi out with the too big to fail and the credit derivatives and the swaps. So it was a very interesting time to be there. So I ended up staying at Citi in a variety of finance roles for about eight years. And then ended up coming back to Chicago, and then worked at a trading company called Peak6, which was a diversified company. They had several investments in small private equity type investments, private placements, and also had bought a couple other companies and sold a couple of companies while I was there. So really, really great experience. And then I ended up going into another CFO role at ABN AMRO Clearing Group running the Americas business for trading clients. And then I really, really found my footing in 2017 when I joined a company called OppFi, which is a mission-driven company to help the hundreds of millions of Americans that live paycheck to paycheck and with 70% of America having savings of less than a thousand dollars. We tried to provide an alternative to payday loans and other high interest rate products, with a fully amortizing product that really gave people an opportunity to withstand an emergency situation. We ended up building the company up over a five year period from startup and then we ended up taking the company public via the SPAC process in 2021. I stayed with the company one year post public and then I joined another company, similar space, similar mission to help those in an emergency situation. In this case, Libra Solution is responsible for consumer litigation funding, so mostly personal injury. So when people get into a car accident, a motor vehicle accident, we help them out by providing an advance against the case settlement. So while they wait on a case which can last anywhere from an average of a year and a half to sometimes more than five years, we provide... And also have relationships with providers and attorneys to help them get the right care. So that's my background. Really excited to be here, as I said. I'm looking forward to the questions. Dora: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your background. Because you've previously talked about your recent reunion with the Northwestern community, do you want to talk a little bit about the Northwestern alumni network? How would you describe the network? And are you in touch with any of the alumni? Shiven: Yeah, I think some of my best friends are from Northwestern, who I still keep in touch with, talk to on a daily basis really, and spend a lot of time. I think the greatest thing from my experience at Northwestern, were definitely the relationships that I formed there. I think the friendships are long lasting, lifelong and genuine. And the best part about the Northwestern alumni network, is that people really are out there to help each other. And I think whether it's a more recent alum or somebody that's more seasoned, or that's been out of school for a longer period of time, I think the ability to leverage the network and leverage the relationships and the friendships, I think is one of the best things ever. So yeah, not just the reunion, but again, on an ongoing basis, having that connectivity with the school and the university is very important to me. Dora: Is there any other resources you remember taking advantage of at school? Shiven: Yeah, so I think there's a lot of resources at the school, the career network, I think the student clubs are great as well, to network into different companies. The relationships that the co-op program that I wasn't a part of, but a lot of friends were, is another great opportunity. And I think, just the number of organizations, I was in the Greek system, so I had joined a fraternity there and a lot of the relationships I had from there continue to last for years post Northwestern. So I had a really good experience there. I was involved with cultural groups and affinity groups, the South Asian Student Association. And was involved with some of the dances and the performances and the festivals that we celebrated. So I think that that diversity is also super important with so many people from so many different backgrounds. That's what makes Northwestern really unique. Dora: Yeah, absolutely. And going back to your career, were you thinking about doing a career or jobs in finance when you first came to Northwestern? Or how was that process of choosing what career? Shiven: Yeah, no, I came in thinking like a lot of the Asian and Indian parents want their kids to be doctors. So I came in being told that I should be a doctor. And unfortunately, after about a year and a half and struggling through organic chemistry, I realized that it wasn't my calling to do medicine. And to the disappointment of making that phone call, I'll never forget to my parents, they were very disappointed that I decided not to go. And I got a very long lecture about why my career and my life is going the wrong direction. And they thought I was just goofing around the whole time during Northwestern, which is partially true, but not fully. I ended up with Northwestern really realizing that math was my calling in life, and I like the business side and how using mathematics and data to solve business problems, I thought it was what I wanted to do. And so over the course of a couple of years really by my junior year I thought I wanted to do something more in financial services and where I can do something that I'm more passionate about. So yeah, I feel like it was the right decision and I feel good about where we are. Dora: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Is there any particular skills or habits do you think is important for your career? Shiven: Yeah, I think the most important characteristic one can have, and my advice is to be flexible in a company and be versatile. Not just do something that this is your immediate job, but offer perspectives, offer out of the box thinking. And I think that the other piece is be a team player. There should be no job that's too menial. Whatever you're told to do, view it as a service to your company and try to do the best, not for yourself, but for the broader and the greater organization. Be a culture champion, make it a positive experience, help other people out. I think it's super important. I think the other piece is as a leader, is care about your people, really care about the individual, care about their development and make it an environment where people want to work. They're not just there to collect a paycheck, but they're having a fun time there and really making an impact and really fulfilling the mission of what that company is. So I think it's go for what you're interested in rather than trying to check boxes. Dora: Yeah. And another question I have, is that during your academic or professional journey, is there anything that you regret or wish you could do differently? Shiven: Yeah, I think what I would have said, is I would have been more honest with myself in what I really wanted, what my passions were. And I think the other piece of it, is be who you are, even who you spend time with. And I would say, early on in my college career I was trying to like fit in as opposed to being myself, both with my family at home and trying to be a doctor. And also with the people I associated with, I was trying to, adhere to what I thought what people liked. And then as you get older you're like, "You know what? You are who you are, be yourself, be a good human being, but don't try to be somebody you're not and be true to yourself." Dora: Yeah. And also I feel like as a college student sometimes we'll meet some obstacles in school and also in recruiting and stuff. So is there any advice you can give the students to keep them motivated? Shiven: Yeah, I think my biggest advice is I think there's no substitute for hard work. And whether that's in recruiting, whether that's in your schoolwork, whether that's in as you look for a job or decide on a career path in general, I think you got to spend the time, right? So for example, if you're looking for a job, people aren't going to reach out to you, and there's so many qualified individuals, so how do you differentiate yourself? One, is you make an effort. You go to these career fairs but also start to figure out who's in your network? Who's at Northwestern? Have introductory coffees together and try to learn from them and seek help. And you may reach out to a hundred people and only one or two people respond, but it's one or two more than you would've had if you didn't make any effort. And if you look at like how people get to where they are, a lot of it is really based on the people you know and the people that have helped you out. As a society we help each other out, but you have to seek that help. And so don't be afraid to ask for help and not do it all on your own, but get guidance of those that have done it in the past. Dora: And I think you've already touched a little bit about this, but is there any specific tips for networking for students in college or after graduation? Shiven: Yeah, I think it's important to be part of the student organizations that are connected to the field of study that you want to do or the career that you want to pursue. And also, I think using job networks like LinkedIn and the Northwestern alumni network, there are thousands of alum all over the world, tens of thousands of alum. It's just a question of finding them, right? And so I think using those resources, going through databases and reaching out, and just asking like, "I'm a Northwestern student seeking advice," you will get responses. And it's not going to be a hundred percent as I said, but find and make a point each week to meet at least two new people. That I would say, would be a goal. Have conversations with two new people each week in your field of study. Dora: And just for students who are interested in financial services or finance, do you have any general advice for the students to do in school or in recruiting? Shiven: Yeah, for finance in general, I think a lot of the skills with a liberal arts background are transferable. You don't need to have been in an undergraduate in business school to be successful. I think it's the way of thinking. Take classes that involve critical thinking, that involve data and numbers and analytics. So I think statistics, science courses are very helpful, math courses, computer science. The other thing in finance is that there are two ways to go about it. You're going to go into finance right out of undergrad, or you work in a company, like let's say, you're interested in science and you go work at a biotech company. Or you're interested in art or whatever it may be, or you're an engineer, develop skills that are problem solving skills and analytical. Then you can go back, get your MBA and then do more of a finance specialty. So there's a couple of paths to go on that. Dora: And I know a lot of students, they didn't know what to do for their career when they were in college. So do you think it's important for them to decide what to do before graduation? Or do you think it's okay for them to just navigate and figure it out through their journey in Northwestern? Shiven: I think it is important to have some idea prior to graduating in the first couple of years. I think it's important to explore, keep your options open. But by junior year, like having a path of where you want to go I think is important and having a focus, because you want to hit the ground running out of college. And I think the more you wait to figure that out, the bigger issues that you'll have. And use the time by speaking to others, that have been in different fields and getting a feel for what people do. Go to different companies, go to company visits, go to career fairs and that's how you learn and talk to people. But I think it is important to figure it out before you graduate. Dora: Perfect. Thank you so much for speaking with us today. I think that is all the questions I have. It was really wonderful getting to know you. And thank you again for joining us today. Shiven: Yeah, absolutely. It's a pleasure to be on here and I'm happy to speak to other individuals that have questions on their career. And as I said, use the network and use the opportunity that you have at Northwestern in a positive way. Dora: And thank you for listening to this special episode of Weinberg in the World podcast. We hope you have a great weekend, and go Cats.
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