Weinberg in the World

In this special student-hosted episode of the “Weinberg in the World” podcast, student host Ashley Guo interviews JJ, a 1997 Northwestern graduate in psychology who now works at Microsoft. JJ shares his journey from initially pursuing a pre-med path to discovering his passion for psychology through an Intro to Psych class with Professor David Uttal. He discusses his struggles with organic chemistry and how psychology felt more natural to him. JJ also talks about his diverse coursework, including Russian and Eastern literature, history, and art classes, which enriched his undergraduate experience and allowed him to explore various interests. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jjguajardo/ Transcript: Ashley: Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with JJ who graduated from Northwestern in 1997 with a major in psychology. He is currently at Microsoft. Thank you so much for being here with us today. JJ: Well, I'm happy to be here. Thanks. Ashley: We're excited to hear that about your work at Microsoft. Before we do that, we'd love to hear more about your time at Northwestern and what drew you to study psychology initially. JJ: Yeah, good question. I kind of have a funny journey through Northwestern, although probably not super atypical given what I've heard. When I got to Northwestern as a bright-eyed freshman, I was pre-med. I was going to be a medical doctor. That was my path, so I was very excited about going that way. I was trying to figure out what major that I would want to take on it because I didn't think I wanted to do a straight biology major, physics, or something like that, so I was just playing around a little bit. One of my friends, upperclassmen, suggested... He was pre-med, and he was taking psychology classes. He's like, "It's actually a pretty cool major for pre-meds." That's interesting. So I took an Intro to Psych class with David Uttal, and I loved it. I was fascinated by the subject matter. It was one of those moments in time when you're like, "I'm actually kind of okay at this." I was definitely struggling in the pre-med classes, especially when I got to organic chemistry, which absolutely crushed me. I just couldn't quite grasp that kind of subject matter. Whereas, the psychology classes I was taking, between Intro, I took a developmental psychology class with David Uttal as well, and then other ones, it just sort of clicked. It just worked well, and it felt like I didn't have to try super hard. It sounds weird, but I didn't have to try super hard to do well. That's not because it's easy. It's just because it was kind of coming easy to me, which is weird. So I thought that was a good sign. As I continued to struggle in organic chemistry and continued to really fall in love with the subject matter in the psychology courses I was taking, it just felt like a natural thing to stop doing the pre-med track and pursue psychology from there. Then, yeah, I just jumped in head first and took a bunch of different courses. Obviously majored in it. I worked in a lab with Dr. Uttal for a couple years doing hands-on research with the kiddos in the lab in developmental psychology. Yes, that's how I got into it, and was very, very happy to do so. Ashley: Wow, that's amazing to hear. I also took Intro to Psych and really loved the class because I'm a cognitive science major, so that resonates a lot. JJ: That's awesome. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It just felt natural, and it just worked. Ashley: Is there any other classes that you took or extracurriculars that you felt like gave you even more chance to explore psychology? JJ: Oh, interesting. It was funny. I actually took a bunch of, this is kind of weird, Russian, Eastern lit classes- Ashley: Cool. JJ: ... and history, sort of random because one of my friends was taking one, and I'm like, "Yeah, that sounds like fun." I had a couple different professors, I can't remember the one's name, but they were just absolutely fascinating. It's one of those kind of situations where, while the subject matter is interesting in and of itself, when somebody is passionate about teaching it and they have so much more to add, it just makes you more excited and interested. So I took way more classes in that subject than I thought I would've normally, which is kind of cool. Then I was also able to take a few art classes, which was really cool. I took some drawing classes later on in my time at Northwestern. That was really fun, and it let me explore the more creative side. I just loved taking a wide variety of things at Northwestern. I think the way that our curriculum was set up and the opportunities that it afforded were awesome, just to be able to explore various topics that I might not have done otherwise. Ashley: Oh, I see. I noticed that you also continued to pursue PhD. Can you share with us what led you to that decision? JJ: Yeah, yeah. Like I said before, I was doing research in the lab, so I was doing hands-on work, and I really found it fascinating. Then one summer, the summer between my junior and senior year, I got some grant to continue doing research over the summer, which was great, as part of this program and had a really great time doing that. I could run my own research and stuff. Ashley: Wow. JJ: Really, again, it just felt like a natural fit. I was already okay at it, and I liked it. So going into my senior year, I was not sure what I was going to do, to be honest with you. I figured I'd go get a job somewhere and not knowing what I was going to. But talking to Dr. Uttal, he was very encouraging of looking at grad schools. At the time, I was pretty ignorant about them. I didn't know what that would entail. I didn't know how much it would cost and if it was feasible for me and everything. But he reassured me that there were certainly grants and fellowships available and that maybe I was a pretty good candidate for some schools. So I went ahead and applied to various programs that were doing some really interesting developmental work, developmental psychology work, a few around the Midwest. Then eventually the University of Chicago, I got into there and just fell in love with the school and the program. It looked awesome. They gave me a full fellowship to go there with a stipend, so it was a no-brainer. So I just jumped straight in from undergrad to grad school. I studied there for five years and got my PhD in developmental psych, studying small children and infants. My eventual thesis was on nine-month old babies, so a very different subject matter than I'm dealing with now. But it was a great time. I'm really happy to have pursued that and finish the degree. Ashley: Wow. I see. How did you found your first job after PhD? JJ: That was kind lucky. It was probably my late third, early fourth year of grad school when I realized that I didn't want to pursue academia as a career. I really liked what I was doing, but I didn't think I would love it enough to do it for my life. In complete transparency, the University of Chicago is a great program, and there were some really amazing people coming out of the program. Folks who were older than me, were a couple years ahead of me, were on the job market with amazing CVs and really a great list of publications and just fantastic candidates, and they were having a hard time getting jobs. They were getting jobs, academic jobs, in places that I just couldn't ever see myself going to or being happy living in some of these places. I want to have a little more agency about where I ended up. I figured that academia was not going to let me have that agency. It was going to dictate where I go, so I decided it wasn't going to be the route I pursued. So I started thinking about non-academic jobs, but I again didn't have a whole lot of... not support, it's not fair, but just a lot of people around me didn't really know that world because they were all academics. At the time, the University of Chicago didn't have a very good system for helping people like me looking at non-academic stuff, although they've done a great job now, and that's a whole other subject. I was looking at jobs. I had something lined up through a friend in Chicago doing some market research. But then happened to look at a job on this old website called Monster.com. It's where you'd find jobs back in the day. I saw something about, "Do you like video games, and do you like working with kids?" I was like, "Yes, and yes. That's awesome." Love video games because I was playing a lot of PlayStation at the time. So I applied. It was with the group who I currently work with now, Xbox Research. I think back in the day we were called Games User Research. This was back in 2002, so a long time ago. I was very excited to get an interview, phone interviews, and I ended up getting the job. It was just a vendor role, which means that I was not working for Microsoft. I was a contractor contracting to Microsoft, but I was happy to do that. I figured I'd come out to Seattle for a year and try it out, and then maybe ended up back in Chicago where my family was. But on a personal note, I came to Seattle, and I met my future now-wife six months after being here, and I was never going back. So I've stayed 22 years now. So that's how I got that role back in the day. Ashley: Wow, wow. So you didn't really decide to, I guess, officially move to Seattle when you first left? JJ: Yeah, it was just on a whim. "Yeah, I'm going to go out there." I took a flight with a backpack and my golf clubs. Then my parents drove out in a van with a bunch of my stuff. Again, I figured it'd be about a year or so and had to move it back, but never went back. Ashley: Never went back, never went back. Oh, I see. I'm curious, your previous, I guess, time either in Northwestern or UChicago, how does what you learned in school or maybe outside of school apply or not apply to your current job? JJ: It's an interesting question. It's kind of funny. In psychology, I think about that major and why it worked well for me and everything and what I loved about it. I think at its core, it's like, as psychologists, we observe human behavior and try to make some sense of it. That's just kind of what we do. That translates perfectly to the work I do. So in my job as a games user researcher, we watch people and we talk to people as they play our games, as they use the systems, and try to make sense of it. That's our role. That's at the most basic level of stuff. But when I think about when we're in the lab, like a usability lab, for example, where we're literally watching somebody play through a game or through part of a system, and we're watching to see where they succeed or where they struggle, and we're talking to them and we're trying to get to the root cause of what's actually happening, why they're actually struggling, what is it that they're not seeing properly, or, to be more precise, what have we failed to convey as designers, we have to use those techniques that we learned in psychology to drill down to the root cause of an issue, to really question in the right way, in a non-leading way, don't be biased and lead people in the wrong direction. So we use all those kinds of tools that we learned in psych. Then on the other end, when we're doing the analysis, same kind of thing, like all the data that we look at, the way we're going to interpret it, the tools we use to analyze it, that's all from the psychological training, the methods, and experimental backgrounds that we have. So I got all that from school, which is great. That training that I got at Northwestern, and then certainly in my later program, created the foundation and the basis for me to be able to do my job successfully. So I use it quite a bit. Ashley: Wow. JJ: Now, I don't use the developmental psychology stuff a whole lot given that I don't work with babies, but I did for a while. There were some games and products that we were developing for kids that I actually was brought in to do work on because of my background, so I was able to use some of the developmental psychology knowledge and domain expertise there as well. Ashley: Wow, that's amazing. Because I know not everyone can get to use what they learned in school in their actual job- JJ: Yeah, [inaudible 00:13:52]. Ashley: ... so that's amazing to hear. Were there any challenges that you faced when you first came out of UChicago going into your job? JJ: I think probably the biggest challenge or biggest surprise, I'd say, was the speed at which you work in business. In grad school over the course of five years, I ran two big research projects, one for my master's and for my PhD, and each of those had sub-components, of course. Then I had ran a couple of side projects with my PI at the time as well. I probably had four or five things that I did over the course of my time there. So you just do the math, and it's, on average, about a year for a project. Then you go to industry. You're given a problem to try to solve or try to get some insight on it, and you got about a week to do it. It's a very different pace. So I think that was surprising but exciting as well. I think there was a moment when you realize that this is non-academic research. You're not going to try to publish in Nature or some other journal. This is to try to answer a business decision and give a team information to be able to make some changes to the product to improve it on a pretty quick timeframe, and that's all you need to do. I think once you realize that, the stakes are a little bit different. You can adjust accordingly and speed up your work and everything. So that was a big surprise, though, was the timelines and the speed at which we operate. Ashley: I see. I guess I know that the speed is definitely going to be different after school compared to during school, but a week compared to a year is very- JJ: It's different. But at the same time, the scope is much different, like I said, and the stakes are different. I do think that the training that I got at Northwestern and UChicago certainly gave me the ability to look at data and make sense of it relatively quickly and communicate that stuff, those insights back to the team with speed and accuracy as well. So I was well-trained to be able to do that. Ashley: I see. Gathering and then analyzing and then communicating that, those are really important parts. Were there any project that you've worked on that you really enjoyed? JJ: At Microsoft? Ashley: Mm-hmm. JJ: Yeah, I've got a bunch that I just loved doing. One of the best parts about my role, my job is that we do have freedom to... We have to answer questions and work with our partners and make sure we're fulfilling that need, but there's also a certain level of freedom within that. I kind of do it the way you need to do it or you want to do it, which is pretty cool. So a few projects I worked on, one was on the Forza Motorsport series, which is the racing games. That's part of Microsoft, part of Xbox Game Studios. They had been building this series of games for a decade or so. I think we were going into the sixth version of the game. I just took over working on the project, the product. I was talking to the creative director of the studio, and I was asking, what are his big questions? What does he want to know? One of the things he want to know was, who plays our game and why? Well, that's a big question, and I thought a pretty easy answer. It's like, "Well, people who play racing games play your game, or they like cars." But that wasn't going to satisfy him. So I went and did a bunch of research using data analytics, so the big, big numbers, as well as survey and interview, so kind of a combination of methods, to put together a set of gaming profiles, so the kinds of people that play the game, the motivations they have for playing the game. Someone might want to play the games just because they really enjoy playing by themselves and running through an entire single-player campaign in a game and play 60 hours of the game, win all these different championships. That might be a motivation to play. Someone else might be motivated just by playing against other people. They want to play with their friends online, and that's the motivation. Someone else might be motivated just because they've got 15 minutes to blow off some steam after work and before they need to do something else. They just jump into a race, and they want to just drive really fast for a little bit of time and drive some cool car. So we ended up finding these different groups with different motivations. That ended up informing the next versions of the game and how we actually built the game. So it was pretty cool. The design team, we built a lot of assets and resources around these kinds of profiles, these kinds of people, and then we build the game to meet those needs. So we're like, "We're going to build for this kind of person, this campaign kind of player. We're going to build for this multiplayer person, these various things." So you could really see our fingerprints all over the next versions of the game, which was really cool, really rewarding. You don't get to see that kind of impact at that level too often in your career. So that was a really fun project to take on, and I just really enjoyed the work. It was really fun diving deeply into millions and millions of data points and looking at these ginormous spreadsheets and making some kind of sense out of it. Ashley: I see. Just from hearing, I feel like there could be a lot of transferable skills a student could learn in school and also potentially use that in their future careers. JJ: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Ashley: Are there any advice or suggestions you would give to students who are interested in, let's say, pursuing a career in user research or a related field? JJ: Yeah. I think one thing I would offer to students is to try to get involved early, if you can. There are a lot of professional conferences that have discounts, for example, for students to join. So I would say get involved in the community as soon as you can or as soon as you want to, just because that's the whole game. I hate saying this, but so much of it's about networking. While I find that, I've always found that kind of cringey and annoying, it's incredibly necessary, and it's just something I've come to terms with. So I'd say, make sure that you start building your network early on. Because the more you're out there, the more your name is known, the more contacts that you have, the more likely you are to be able to land something or at least get an interview and talk to somebody about it. I think that's a big part. Again, these professional conferences, they're very, very welcoming of academics and students. Because we all come from that background, so we're all very much like, yes, we should absolutely bring the next generation of people in. There's a lot of freedom to interact at those conferences and to meet people. Me and my colleagues are all super happy to talk with students and give advice and try to make that connection, if we can. So I would say that's one big piece that I'd offer, for sure. Ashley: So networking and also just exposing ourselves to different scenarios or different events. JJ: I think so, yeah. Ashley: Okay. Thank you so much for sharing. It's really helpful to learn about your career trajectory and the advice that you share with students. This will really help students who are trying to figure out their careers in college. Really appreciate you being here today. JJ: Yeah, happy to do it, for sure.

In this special student-hosted episode of the “Weinberg in the World” podcast, student host Preena Shroff, a third-year neuroscience and global health major, interviews Carla Karijolich, a 2008 Weinberg College graduate in political science and history. Carla, now a senior manager in customer care training at a medical device and digital health company, shares her undergraduate experiences, including studying abroad in Paris, participating in Peer Health Exchange, and being a DJ at WNUR. She emphasizes the importance of trying new things and how her diverse experiences have shaped her career path and skills, particularly in public speaking and empathy. https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlakarijolich/ Transcript: Preena Shroff: Welcome to Weinberg in the World podcast where we bring stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. My name is Preena Shroff, and I'm your student host of this special episode of Weinberg in the World. I'm a third year student majoring in neuroscience and global health, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Carla Karijolich who graduated from Weinberg College in 2008 with a major in political science and a minor in history. Carla is working as a senior manager in customer care training at a medical device and digital health company. Carla, thank you so much for being here with us today. Carla Karijolich: Thank you for having me. Preena Shroff: We are so excited to learn about your managerial role in learning and development, but of course would love to start out with your time at Northwestern and how that shaped your path. So maybe you could tell us a little bit more about your undergraduate experience. What were some impactful classes, extracurriculars or conversations that you had which impacted your postgraduate career? Carla Karijolich: Thanks for asking that. Like you said, I majored in political science and minored in history, so I'm just very passionate about understanding what's going on in the world and why and what has happened prior to that to create the reality that we live in today. That was something that I just really enjoyed studying and it opened up my world so much. Some of the memorable things that I did in college was studying abroad in Paris, France. That was a really eye-opening and meaningful experience, very humbling to go to another country and learn a new language. That did a lot for me culturally and as a person. I also was involved with Peer Health Exchange, so that's a program where we would go to some local high schools and teach high school freshmen about health. My topic was rape and sexual assault. As you can imagine, getting up early on Fridays to get in front of high school freshmen and talk about a serious topic did a lot for me as a public speaker. I don't think I've ever had such a tough audience and such a difficult topic. I also was a DJ at WNUR and I was on the Rock show specifically, and that was just a tremendous amount of fun discovering new music, artists. Of course, when you're constantly thinking about music and what you want to play on your show, you're going to concerts. So just really great time, really expanded my world. All of those interests, I think still show up in my current life and career. Preena Shroff: Yeah, wow, that's actually so awesome. It's really cool that you're able to try your hand at a lot of different things that are so different from each other and probably building relationships within all those different communities as well. That's awesome. Carla Karijolich: Yeah, I definitely like to try new things. That is something that I encourage students, you can try something, you may not like it, and that's okay. That's giving you information about maybe the things that you want to move away from. Then sometimes you'll try something and you really like it and it can put you on a path. All of these skills absolutely add up and pay off. Preena Shroff: Yeah, for sure. Speaking of path, beyond Northwestern what do you think led you on your career path or what skills were you able to build up specifically that had been critical in your field today? Carla Karijolich: It's really interesting to me how when I look at my career path really starting from freshman year, it's paid off. The summer after my freshman year, I volunteered at a legal clinic for survivors of domestic violence, and I transcribed and translated survivor testimonies from Spanish to English to be used as legal evidence. That was very, very eye-opening, gave me a lot of empathy, a lot of appreciation for what attorneys do and what people go through when they suffer domestic violence. From there, with that experience, I actually was able to then get a work study job as a research assistant at a local hospital. Because I had that transcription experience and experience with sensitive topics, I worked with some researchers who were studying postpartum depression. Another very interesting rich topic, a tremendous amount of empathy that you get. Then eventually when I became a mother, I was able to really understand those experiences even more. That kind of got me on this research mindset. My first job out of college was in public policy research, so I was able to learn a lot. I was working in public finance research at the time of the 2008 recession, so that was a really interesting time to be in that field. I learned a lot about local government, state government, how it works. Totally tapped into my interest with political science and history. The economy was still in rough shape when that program was up, so I was really thinking about, do I want to continue in public policy? Should I go to grad school? Should I continue to work? I knew I wanted to continue my education, I just didn't know exactly when and how. I ended up in my first corporate job as an HR research analyst, and specifically I was working in corporate recruiting. All of those dots eventually connected and put me into the corporate world where I am today. Preena Shroff: I'm sure all those skills you gained through communicating with different types of people coming from all kinds of situations really helped with that too. Carla Karijolich: Yes. Just when you think about the different populations that I've worked with, yeah, I guess I've never shied away from tough topics. Now in the work that I do, I'm a training manager, so I have to be able to interact with people really from all over the world because in my current company, I work with people in different countries, from different cultures. We talk about sensitive topics and also very tactical topics. I absolutely love getting to know new people and new cultures. I'm sure that started even before Northwestern, but all my experiences at Northwestern really teed me up to be successful at that. Preena Shroff: Yeah, for sure. I know you mentioned a little bit about what you're doing now, which is primarily in learning and development. When did this interest in learning and development come up and how has it impacted your path? Carla Karijolich: I got into learning and development over 10 years ago. I was working in sales and customer service, and I wanted to move up into a managerial role. At the time in my mind, that was the next step. You go from an individual contributor to a manager. I thought about how do I do that? My supervisor, who was a really awesome mentor, suggested that I take on opportunities to train other employees because that's a really good way to demonstrate your leadership skills. As I was doing that, I really got to develop my public speaking, my writing skills, solving operational problems, implementing solutions, and change management. It really became my path. Instead of using training as a stepping stone into another career, it became my career. I applied to a master's program at Northwestern in Learning and Organizational Change, and I completed that, and so I have two degrees from Northwestern. I think that that says a lot about the university, that so many people go back. Preena Shroff: They're Wildcats. Carla Karijolich: Exactly. Double. Double Wildcat. I teach here too now, so we can talk about that later. Preena Shroff: Oh, cool. Carla Karijolich: But yes, I've been on that path ever since. Preena Shroff: Wow. Okay. Yeah. So I guess coming back to Northwestern a little bit, just looking in the past and looking towards the future, how did you seek mentorship at Northwestern? What advice do you have for students who are looking for support along their career paths today? Carla Karijolich: That's such a good question. I think that especially for students where they're the first in their family to go to a four-year college or university, it is really important to get mentorship because your family has a lot of love and support for you, but you're going to encounter things that maybe they haven't had to navigate in the same way. It is important to have those mentors. I did have a formal mentor through the Northwestern Public Interest Program. That was a part of the first job that I had out of college, and I was assigned a really awesome mentor who made such a big impact on my life. He teaches in the graduate school at CESB, and I'd say, "Oh yeah, tell me about your program," and we would talk about things that I was doing at work and the things that he teaches about, and he gave me so much insight into some of the things that I was working on. Then however many years later, I ended up applying to that program, and I took his class. I did get an A in his class, but it wasn't because of any inside advantage that I had. The advice and the takeaway from that is that if there's a program that offers formal mentorship, whether it's through school or something in the community, apply and take it. It's just an opportunity to meet someone that you otherwise are not going to meet who wants to help you. This person has signed up to help a student and to help them grow. Take those chances. Also, mentorship isn't really always a formal thing. You don't have to go somewhere and sign up for a mentor. Anyone can be a mentor. In the different jobs and internships that I had, I would really show interest and curiosity in the work my colleagues were doing. For example, when I was in the postpartum depression research program, I didn't know a single thing about postpartum depression, being a mother. I was taking classes on research at Northwestern and social science research, but that's very different from researching in a clinical setting. I would ask my colleagues about what they were doing and how they ended up with the degrees that they had and how they ended up doing this work. It's just enriching. You learn a lot. I also would go to office hours and just keep up with those professors who I really admired and whose work really resonated with me. I think that the professors, they appreciate that. People like to talk about their work, and when someone shows an interest in what you're doing, I think it means a lot to them. I would keep up with them, even if you just visit once a year or a couple of times in a year. They remember you and it gives you someone to talk to. Also, even just other students. The juniors and seniors, I would see them dressed up and, "Oh, did you go on an interview today?" "Yeah, I did." "How'd it go?" They're giving you advice without even knowing it. They're telling you about what they did and how it went and the questions they got. Just by them telling you, you're learning so much. I think it's just all about that curiosity. The last example I'll give is that when I was in my work study job in the postpartum depression program, there was a coworker who was a licensed clinical social worker that I enjoyed talking to. In getting to know her, she told me about how she had had a very successful career in business, and then after that pivoted into this. She was already on a different path doing something else very successfully, and then decided to do something completely different. That was so eye-opening for me. You're not locked into anything. You're always evolving, you're always growing. Your career is going to be decades long, so you have to be open and recognize that you are going to go through some evolutions and some transformation. Preena Shroff: Yeah, for sure. I think what you said about finding mentorship anywhere, there are so many programs at Northwestern, first of all, that give students opportunities to connect with past Wildcats or alumni. At the same time, just I think the students at Northwestern are very open to sharing their experiences and wanting to encourage other people to follow that path as well. Carla Karijolich: Yeah, I mean, that's how I met you. I think what's so funny, I don't know if I told you this, but I applied for some formal mentorship program to be a mentor for students, and they had so much interest in that first year that they didn't have a spot for me. That was a bummer. Then at some point a few weeks later, I got an email saying, "Do you want to attend this event at the Waldron Center?" I said, "Yes, absolutely," and that's how I met you, and that's how we ended up here. So sign up for things. You never know what will come out of it. Preena Shroff: For sure. Yeah. I mean, exactly. It's like the students at Northwestern, even regardless of where they go, where they end up, they're always looking to come back and share their experiences. Carla Karijolich: Isn't that the truth? Preena Shroff: Yeah. It's so amazing. Actually, you had mentioned finding your professors and connecting with them, and that reminded me that you teach at Northwestern School of Professional Studies. What do you teach and how'd you get into it? Carla Karijolich: Oh, thanks for asking. I teach an undergraduate class in organizational behavior, and it's about training and development, so right in my wheelhouse of what I do. At some point after I finished my master's degree, I thought that was so much fun. I don't necessarily want to do homework, but I would love to teach and give homework. Preena Shroff: Assign homework. Carla Karijolich: Right? There's just so much that I would do, and I would think, wow, I wish I could share this with people who are up-and-coming or who are interested in this field, because that's what the professors did in my graduate program. They did this all day, every day, and they would tell us about what they had done and what worked and what didn't work and so forth. I really just wanted to pay it forward. I told my mentor, the one I told you about through Northwestern Public Interest Program, I said, "Oh, you teach, I want to teach too. How do I do that?" He said, "Oh, you got to tell people. You have to make sure people know you're interested so that if it comes up, they have you in mind." One day, I don't know how much time had lapsed, could have been a year or more, but I remember seeing a post in a LinkedIn group for alumni of my graduate program, and they were looking for someone who could teach a class on training and development, who had a master's degree and had hands-on experience in that field. I could not apply fast enough. I was so excited, and it has been everything I wanted and more. I get to share my experiences and build up this just next generation of talent in the field. I have worked with students who are interested in the topic and interested in making a career change of some kind. I've seen students transition into new jobs after taking my class and taking classes at SPS, so not all attributed to me. I'm just so proud of them, to see somebody developing their skills and really making that effort and then succeeding. It's a huge point of pride for me. I'm so honored when people ask me to write them a letter of rec or be a reference, and then I see them in this new role and excelling. For me, ultimately, I would love to work with my former students because I want to work with other talented, hardworking, intelligent people. I feel like I'm helping put that out in the world, and someday they're going to recommend me or be my friends for something. Then my work is truly done. Preena Shroff: Yeah, Carla, your class sounds awesome. How can I sign up? Carla Karijolich: It is. Actually, you can take it as a student-at-large, or if you are an SPS student. It's an elective within organizational behavior, but I'm already thinking that I would love to teach other topics too. I don't know, maybe someone who's looking for a co-teacher... If anyone can make a PowerPoint deck, it's me. Preena Shroff: That's great. You mentioned that you were able to get connected with this role because of LinkedIn. I guess I was kind wondering how has social media shaped your path in other ways, just who you've been able to keep in touch with, or if you've used it to get closer with any other career choice or something like that? Carla Karijolich: Oh my goodness, this is such a good question. Social media, and particularly LinkedIn, have probably changed my life. I was looking for a new position, and I saw a job on LinkedIn and I applied. I was in the process, and I went through so many interviews. I thought I was interviewing to be an executive or something. It was just the scrutiny and the number of interviews. Then I got to the very end, I interviewed with the final boss, as it were, and that person looked at my LinkedIn profile probably while we were talking, and then shot a message over to a mutual connection. It was someone I had done a group project with grad school, and that was our relationship, was having been grad students on a project. He asked this person, "What do you know about Carla?" Basically asking to vet me, and he vouched for me, and I got the job and has worked out. It's been tremendous. Just one person that I connected with, I don't even remember if he requested me, I probably requested him to be honest, but because of that one connection, that person vouched for me. So you never know, but I would say take care of those connections. You never know who will speak up for you or vouch for you. You don't know the kind of impression that you leave on people too. You work with someone on a project and they see that you're organized and you have your little spreadsheet and that you do the things that you say you're going to do, that means a lot. Take care of those relationships. For anyone who is skeptical of group projects, look, a group project got me a job. Preena Shroff: I guess it's really cool how, first of all, you can build that connection and then maintain it online, and then someone else can look at that and just build off of that on their perception of your character. I guess every relationship you form really matters when you're applying. Carla Karijolich: Yes. It's so funny because when you're in class, you're wearing jeans and you're taking notes furiously, but you don't know that in that moment you're working with somebody who eventually could end up influencing you or helping you. That's a wonderful thing. I think as Northwestern alumni, the fact that we can count on each other like that is really special. Preena Shroff: For sure. Kind of taking a pivot here with another question I had for you in terms of obstacles or challenges that you've overcome throughout your career. What obstacles have you had and did your time at Northwestern impact your approach to solving the problem in any way? Carla Karijolich: Everyone has challenges in their career, and the biggest one for me that I can think of is making that transition to becoming a working mom. I had my first child, and when I had to go back to work, it was an uphill climb. There's so much you have to learn as a new mother. You have to learn how to take care of your baby, take care of yourself. If you are nursing that child, you will have to learn about how to do that, pumping. Hopefully, maybe there's a working mother listening to this now, kind of nodding her head. It is so, so challenging to get into a new routine. You have a new human being who depends on you in your life, and after making that transition, you have to go back to work. That was so hard. It is so different to walk into the office with those fresh new responsibilities in your personal life and then go back to work. You're not the same. On top of that, I kind of got shuffled around after having been gone for a few months. That can happen. When you go on leave, you come back into a new role, maybe that new role isn't a good fit for you. That was very challenging for me to have to be shuffled like that. I had to really reflect on that and think about how do I improve this situation? I think that Northwestern was actually a big part of me making that transition, because my experience as an undergrad was all about trying new things, being resilient, and really developing that self-belief. I'm also still close to my friends from undergrad. I still talk to them. Every day we have a group chat. I'm still talking to these people, and they were just so supportive of me. Some of them had been through the same transition, and that just bedrock of support on top of my family and my husband was so, so important. What I was able to really realize is that I had outgrown what I was doing. Even if the situation was difficult, it wasn't necessarily a bad thing because the situation was telling me, "You need to find a new path. You need to have the courage to make that change." So I took that risk of looking for a new job, really looking for something that I would enjoy doing, and that would give me the ability to grow and progress in my career. I was able to find that, and it's worked out really well. This is the job that my former classmate had vouched for me for. I think ultimately I had that foundation of support and confidence to move on into the next chapter, and I'm so glad that I did. Preena Shroff: Yeah. Wow. It's amazing that there's no challenge, and then there's no one pinpoint where you can be like, "Oh, this class, this moment taught me what I needed to know on how to approach this challenge." It's more of like, it's who you built or how you built upon yourself over your time at Northwestern that led you to survive or keep moving forward through the challenge. Carla Karijolich: Yes, absolutely. It's all of the experiences that come together to make you who you are. I had mentioned earlier when I was in the Peer Health Exchange program and I had to get up and talk in front of those high school freshmen about rape and sexual assault, that was tough. I was just trying to make sure that they were paying attention to me and not laughing at me. In one of the interviews that I did, I had to do a presentation. I had to create a presentation from scratch and present to this interview panel and basically do a training to show them how do I create content? How do I train? It went really well. I was able to blow them away because always in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, they're not high school freshmen. I got this right. We're not talking about anything scary. To this day, just so many of these different things that I learned or that I did as an undergrad payoff to give me that confidence that I need. Preena Shroff: Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your path, and it was really amazing to hear about your time at Northwestern and how that's helped you find your way today. Thank you for joining us today. Carla Karijolich: Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Preena Shroff: Have a great day, everyone. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Weinberg in the World.

In this special student-hosted episode of the “Weinberg in the World” podcast, student host Seora Kim, a junior majoring in economics, interviews Keith Haan, the senior vice president at Roivant Sciences. Keith graduated with a major in Biological Studies. Keith shares his journey from studying biology and playing baseball at Northwestern University to working in a lab at the medical school, which influenced his career path. He discusses his research on B cell signaling and Epstein-Barr virus, and how his interest in biotechnology led him to the finance industry. Keith explains his transition from equity research to venture capital and portfolio management, highlighting the interdisciplinary nature of his career! https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-haan-9886a069/ Transcript: Seora Kim: Welcome to the Weinberg in the World podcast where we bring stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. My name is Seora Kim, and I am your student host of this special episode of the podcast. I am a junior majoring in economics and minoring in data science and global health studies. Today, I am excited to be speaking with Keith Haan, who is the senior vice president at Roivant Sciences. Thank you, Keith, for taking the time to speak with me today. Keith Haan: Thank you, Seora. I'm happy to be here. Seora Kim: Awesome. To start us off today, I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit more about your time at Northwestern as an undergraduate. What did you study? What were the impactful experiences for you that led to your current career path? Keith Haan: I was an undergraduate major in biology sort of focusing on cell and molecular biology, but my experience at Northwestern was also shaped a lot by the fact that I played baseball for Northwestern. And as part of trying to figure out what to do for the summers, the athletic department does have reach out, and certainly when I was going there, had reach out to sort of help place students with internships that would be interesting. And I ended up working doing research in a lab at the medical school a couple of summers. And I think that really influenced sort of where I wanted to go, and I ended up going and getting my PhD at the grad school down at the medical school campus. Seora Kim: Awesome. That is amazing. Can I ask a little bit more about what kind of research you did at the medical school that helped you pivot? Keith Haan: Yeah, so I worked in a lab that had two focuses. One was on B cell signaling and one was on the cellular factors that allowed Epstein-Barr virus to enter cells. So the two were sort of related. Epstein-Barr virus encodes some proteins that sort of co-opt B cell signaling, and so part of the group focused on that. And then another group of which I was part of really studied the host cell proteins that were involved in mediating entry of the virus to the cell. Seora Kim: Amazing. That sounds super cool. And I was also wondering, were there any pivotal moments for your decisions that shaped your different parts of your journey in your career path? Because I know that you had several experiences before coming to Roivant Sciences. Keith Haan: Yeah, so I would say during grad school, viral entry was a hot topic and was actually very topical for HIV entry and HIV treatments. And so, because some of those newer drugs were being studied in the clinic at that point in time, it sort of got me interested in the biotechnology field in general. But I was also looking at the company and saying, "Hey, this is a company that I think I know well because I understand viral entry well. It's a publicly traded company. That is also interesting." And so, I think given the pace of where the biotech field, where it was going and looking at equities as a way to really be exposed to a lot of what the industry was doing, not just from a single company standpoint, but from an industry-wide standpoint, I got interested in biotech stocks. Which led me into the finance industry starting in equity research, and then moving on in my career to being a partner at a venture firm, and then portfolio manager at a hedge fund. Seora Kim: Awesome. That is super cool because I know that there's a lot of students at Northwestern interested in like economics or finance, but then also the bio side of things. So it's super cool to learn about your experience and how you combined biology as well as finance-related careers in your path and how you did biotech-related stocks equity research. So can you share a little bit more about what you think was the most attractive elements in each part of those roles, like was the more interesting parts in equity research or venture capital's portfolio management, so the students can understand what are differences between those jobs? Keith Haan: Sure. So I can start with the equity research first. It was my foray into finance, and that time was really sort of spent leveraging what I knew and what I had gained just in either biological insights and then translating that to how I thought value could be created from companies. And obviously, at that point in time, there was a pretty big backfill for me in learning the financial building models. I mean, that was something that I had not done at Northwestern. So that was a very good learning experience to be able to combine both as well as to learn how stocks move independent of what you might consider to be an intrinsic value. So that whole learning experience I thought was very valuable. And ultimately, I wanted to be able to, instead of being on the analytical side in equity research, I wanted to move on to being in a place where I could be deploying capital against those ideas. And where my initial interest was, it was sort of the earlier stage, probably earlier in the clinic or preclinical, which was more attuned to what I had learned in my background in my PhD, but also in the small company and the company formation. And so, I chose to go to a venture capital firm where I thought I could really build on the skills that I had already developed in equity research. Seora Kim: Definitely. So I think something that is really interesting is that you're focusing on biotech stocks or biology related financials. So can you share a little bit more about what is different between regular stocks or health tech stocks with biotech stocks? Keith Haan: I think one thing that is different about the biotech sector in general is it is something that is, first of all, highly volatile. There can be very large price swings depending on whether the results from a clinical trial allows a company to move forward to the next step of the clinical studies or to get approved. And when you are putting things in the human body, sometimes you get the results you are expecting and sometimes you don't. So there is a lot of volatility around just those stocks in general. And because of that, it is not something that a lot of funds will necessarily allocate a lot of time or people to, unless they have people that have deep experience doing it. So it is, as opposed to funds that may have a lot of their portfolio invested in tech or other industries that are a little bit better understood, healthcare is a little bit [inaudible 00:08:22], and biotech in particular is a little bit different. Seora Kim: Totally. That makes a lot of sense. And since you mentioned it requires a lot of knowledge and also because of the clinical trial stages, do you think that it's important for students who want to focus on biotech related finance roles to do bio majors or PhD? Or what kind of level of education would be required for these kind of roles? Keith Haan: I think it is helpful, but I have sat next to incredibly intelligent and very, very good people from all different backgrounds. So I have sat next to people that have finance or econ majors and have sort of picked up the biology, the clinical aspects, or the regulatory overlay over time. And then, there are many people that I've worked alongside that have a biology or have a medical background that sort of supplement and backfill with the financial overlay. Seora Kim: Definitely. So it's not necessary to have a bio background, but it can be a very diverse background and anyone who is interested can have a shot at this role? Keith Haan: Yeah, I mean, if you are sort of interested in that nexus, you can come into it from various backgrounds. Seora Kim: Perfect. That's amazing. That's great news for our students. And I guess going on with that, I wanted to learn a little bit more about your current company, Roivant Sciences. So can you maybe elaborate a little bit more on what are some of the current day-to-day in the job right now? Keith Haan: Sure. So in my role, I lead the group that is responsible for the licensing and acquisitions at Roivant. So Roivant is a little bit unique in that the licensing and acquisition plays a very large role in our strategy. So we look really industry-wide and where the innovation is, and a big part of where we find the innovation is external. And so, what we do is try to find collaborators and partner with those assets, and then found very nimble small companies that are really charged with bringing those forward in developing and commercializing them. Seora Kim: Well received. So regarding this kind of business model, would you say your investment strategy or how you find these smaller companies be based on certain criterias or standards? Keith Haan: Yeah, I mean, I think what we ultimately want to do is have something that we believe sort of meets our bar for having a reasonable likelihood of clinical and commercial success. And that can be we can get comfort with that in different ways. But in a lot of instances we can pull from maybe data sets for similar compounds or something has similar mechanism or maybe get comfort from extrapolating some early clinical data. Seora Kim: Sounds good. So regarding that, I think it's super cool to learn about how you bring these smaller companies to the market and commercialize them. Are there any significant trends or innovations currently that you are focused on, or what are some of the recent companies that you've brought on? Keith Haan: I think one of the things that is sort of part of the foundation of Roivant is being nimble and being able to go where the innovation is. So we don't constrain ourselves to looking in a particular therapeutic area or looking at a particular modality, whether it is small molecules or large molecules like antibodies or even other things like gene or cell therapy. What we are looking for is something that can truly be transformative for patients and therefore for Roivant. And the way we are set up, I think we are operationally set up to be able to go where the innovation is and where the field is going. Seora Kim: For sure. So it's super cool to learn how there's no restriction on which specific field that you guys are focused on, but just following the trend of innovation. So was wondering if you could maybe describe what are some of the more recent trend or innovations that you are seeing currently that is kind of the hot field in biotech world? Keith Haan: Yeah, so maybe I can use one of our recent sort of licensing deals to highlight some of those things. So we licensed a program from Pfizer in late in 2022. And part of what drew us to that asset was it had a unique biology where many drugs for inflammatory bowel disease or for inflammatory disorders in general can have the ability to really suppress the immune system. And we saw this asset as something that really had very strong efficacy, some of the strongest efficacy that had been shown in inflammatory bowel disease, but we also thought it maybe had a mechanism that wouldn't be associated with this immune suppression. So I think that was a very strong part of why we decided to bring that asset in. But another layer to that was we also had a biomarker which we felt could predict for even better responses. And I think that is something that really the field is trying to move toward is being able to really deliver the best outcomes for patients. And in inflammatory disorders, that is starting to, I think the field is trying to start to segregate patients who will respond to therapy better. That has been done in oncology, and so there is precedent there. But I think as we learn more about some of these diseases, there's something that certainly we are interested, but also the field is interested in as well. Seora Kim: Totally. That is amazing to learn about. And I think the inflammatory disorders is something that is super important to address, and it's really cool how Roivant Sciences is working towards patient improvement and patient experience. I think it's all leading to a much better world in the healthcare field. So thank you for sharing that example. And to close us out today, I have one last question for you. What do you wish you could tell yourself when you were in our shoes as college students? Keith Haan: Ah. Seora Kim: I'm sorry. Keith Haan: That's a good question. I think I guess what I would probably tell myself is what I would tell students at Northwestern or quite frankly the new employees that are coming into Roivant that are either fresh or relatively fresh out of undergrad is, one is be comfortable that your career is going to be, especially in this field, is going to be really based on sort of a lifetime of learning. It's a field that changes. And as you get more experience, you'll be able to develop expertise in those particular areas, but you will also be exposed to additional things that you might not necessarily have seen before. So just being comfortable with being in a field that is constantly changing and being comfortable with the fact that you just need to sort of be a bit of a lifelong learner. I think I would probably tell my younger self that, but it's something that is also important, and I would say to new employees coming in from undergrad as well. Seora Kim: Totally. That is super helpful for us to consider. Thank you so much for this great advice and for joining us today. Keith Haan: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Seora Kim: Thank you for listening to this special episode of the Weinberg in the World podcast. We hope you have a great day and go Cats!

This special student-hosted episode of the Weinberg in the World Podcast features a conversation with Sonia Punjabi '21 who graduated from Northwestern with a Biological Studies Major and a Art Theory & Practice Minor.  Student host Smera Dwivedi, a rising sophomore majoring in chemistry, interviews Sonia Punjabi, a third-year Doctorate of Physical Therapy student at the University of Miami. Sonia shares her journey from Northwestern University, where she explored various fields before finding her passion in physical therapy. She highlights the impact of being a peer advisor on her personal and professional development, emphasizing the importance of interpersonal skills and diversity training. Sonia also discusses her current clinical rotations and the challenges she faced along the way. https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonia-punjabi/ Transcript: Smera Dwivedi: Welcome to the Weinberg in the World Podcast, featuring stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's environment. My name is Smera, and I'm your student host of this special episode of this podcast. I'm a rising sophomore and I have an intended major in chemistry on the premedical path, although I'm not that sure about that, but I'm very excited to learn about physical therapy and your career. Today, I'm excited to be speaking with Ms. Sonia Punjabi, who is, I'm not sure I asked you where you're working or the title of company or anything. Sonia Punjabi: Totally fine. We can get to that when we start. Smera Dwivedi: Okay. Well, good to know. If you'd like to introduce yourself, thank you so much for speaking with me. Sonia Punjabi: Yeah, of course. So I'm Sonia, she/her/hers pronouns, and I'm currently in Miami, Florida. I am in the third year, third and final year of the Doctorate of Physical Therapy program at the University of Miami, which I never thought I would be doing for multiple reasons. It's really cool. We'll get into that. But because I'm in the final year of the doctorate, we have clinical rotations, which means I'll be at different places until I am fully licensed and practicing on my own. So for now, just UMPT, but I love it here, and when there's a job opportunity, I'll let you know. Smera Dwivedi: Oh, good to know, good to know. So how was your Northwestern undergrad shaped how where you are now? Sonia Punjabi: Oh, I loved Northwestern. I adored it there. I came in not knowing what was going on, which I think is normal. I came in thinking maybe I would do math because I had done well in my math classes in high school. I had excelled in the APs. They offered me the MENU course. I don't know if it's so called MENU. So I was like, "Oh, this is kind of neat." It wasn't quite what I was looking for because I didn't know what I was looking for, so I thought, "Oh, architecture, I like art and math. Maybe journalism. Maybe I should switch to McCormick or potentially SESP." I kid you not, I looked at so many things when I was in Northwestern, but the things that stood out to me and made me who I am were being a peer advisor for two years. I was a peer advisor for the class of 2023 and the class of 2024, which is happy tears since they've graduated, if they stuck with that graduation year, and the fact that I took advantage of Weinberg because it's arts and sciences, I took a bajillion English courses, some short of a minor. I probably could have done a minor in English literature, and I did a minor in art theory and practice, and those highly influenced how I am as a person today, both personally and professionally, but we'll get into that. I don't want to talk your ear off immediately. Smera Dwivedi: You're so good. You're completely good. So what about being specifically a peer advisor made you realize something about yourself or something about your interests or something along those lines? Sonia Punjabi: I think the peer advisor course, the way that they prepare students to be peer advisors is phenomenal. It's so well done. I'm still hoping to encourage my current institution and future institutions to utilize some of the same training techniques where we learn about diversity in ourselves, we learn about identity in ourselves, we learn about how to dialogue, and those are essential skills for humans that interact with other humans, but also for healthcare providers that support other humans in health. So that was huge. That was my 101 and how to talk to people and also who am I. I loved it. I loved it. I gained so many incredible interpersonal skills from being a peer advisor that I probably still use at this moment to this day. They've just been honed as I've entered the doctorate program. Smera Dwivedi: Okay. Good. So what was the hardest part about where you are now? What was the hardest part, whether it was undergrad or something else? Sonia Punjabi: Good question. I think not to be too pithy here, there are ebbs and flows in every stage of life. In undergrad, maybe early undergrad, it was that I didn't know. I was confused about my path, which is the way it's supposed to be. I didn't know if I was even in the right school, right major. I had no idea. So I was a biological sciences major, inevitably, confusingly, begrudgingly pre-med, not that that's not a wonderful track, but it didn't quite fit and I wasn't sure why. And I kid you not, I was thinking about preparing for the MCAT and preparing for applying to medical school until the last quarter I was at Northwestern, the final one. I changed my mind. I think it must've been February 2021 and I graduated in June 2021. So I decided really late that I wanted to go into PT school. So maybe in the beginning it was that uncertainty and that feeling that I hadn't found quite the right fit. I knew what I liked, I loved the art theory and practice classes, I loved being a peer advisor, I loved writing and talking, but I didn't know how that would translate. Smera Dwivedi: So I kind of relate to ... I'm in the pre-med path, but I'm not sure if that's something I want to do. So what made you realize that physical therapy was what you wanted to do or what made you finally decide to get off the medical school path? Sonia Punjabi: Sure, and again, I do want to emphasize that I have some lovely friends in the pre-med, well, now medical school world. They're deep in medical school now, and it's a great path. It's amazing. I don't want anyone to feel like, "Oh, this is wrong," because it's a great path. It just wasn't my path. For me, it was that I had a history of my own PT journey as a patient with dance. I danced at Northwestern. I was one of the first years who auditioned for Ahana when it was formed in 2017. So I was on Ahana, I had auditioned for the Bhangra team, and I realized I couldn't do everything I wanted to do, and that was tough. I hadn't found the right kind of PT for myself either. I didn't know what I was looking for. Finally, we get to February 2021, and in my brain, I've already kind of thought about and entertained physical medicine and rehabilitation. It's called PM&R for short, you may have heard of it, and it is a specialty in medicine in which physicians intervene pain management with rehabilitation, either mildly invasively, moderately invasively, noninvasively. There are a ton of ways that physicians can intervene in PM&R, but I thought that was really attractive to me. I was like, "Oh, there's a physician at Shirley Ryan that takes care of performing artists," and I met her. This was right before the pandemic. I kid you not, it was maybe the week or the week of, week before or week of. I go downtown. I have a meeting with one of these physicians who was nice enough to greet me, and we chat about the differences between the physician track and the physical therapy track because they work closely together for rehab. And she was very honest about it. She said, "Yeah, well, I think as a physician, you get to make decisions about medications if that's applicable, about surgical interventions if that's applicable, but you spend less time with your patients compared to a clinician in physical therapy who might see someone two to three times a week for an hour each, depending on the setting they're in. So you have different relationships with your patients and you accomplish different things together." And I was like, "That's interesting," Smera Dwivedi: Absolutely. Sonia Punjabi: I started entertaining that track during the pandemic when everyone was making sourdough and banana bread. We made a lot of banana bread. I was also- Smera Dwivedi: I forget the [inaudible 00:07:43] Sonia Punjabi: A lot of banana bread and a lot of podcasts. I was listening to podcasts by dance trainers working in the rehab world. I was listening to podcasts and looking at online resources from PTs who did a different kind of PT than I'd ever seen. They did strength-based PT. So I started educating myself and applying some of these skills and I was like, "Well, this is pretty cool." Finally, when I was juggling PM&R, PT, PM&R, PT, I made the decision to do PT because the lifestyle of the educational trajectory made sense to me. I got to be a clinician earlier and for longer time with patients, and that's what I really liked. Smera Dwivedi: Okay. Very nice. A podcast, so I need to start listening to podcasts. Got it. Got it. Sonia Punjabi: You don't have to. It just happened to be- Smera Dwivedi: It's like another avenue to explore to see what I want to do. It's very nice because- Sonia Punjabi: I was exploring on Instagram. There are clinicians that show you how they treat knee pain with certain exercises. Again, be careful, it's the internet. They might be like, "Hang upside down from a tree," and that's obviously not going to ... Well, it might, but it might not be the right thing, but I was exploring resources to understand the variety of people not only in rehab, meaning doctors and PTs and OTs and other folks that help with the rehab world, but also styles of rehab within physical therapy. So this was all on my own accord. Northwestern has a wonderful PT program, but I don't think the undergrads get a lot of exposure to what that is. Smera Dwivedi: Okay. That makes sense. So you looked at you said Instagram. Did you ever shadow a lot of doctors? Did that help or anything of sort? Sonia Punjabi: Yeah, good question. Again, because times were a little different, when COVID picked up, I had just started entertaining that idea, and that's why I met with some of the folks at Shirley Ryan. So I'd been to Shirley Ryan a couple times before the pandemic, and I had seen their space, which is really interesting. They overlap their engineers and their PTs and their physicians all in the same space in the same floor. So I got to speak to an engineer there, I got to speak to this performing arts physician and PM&R physician there, and I probably would've continued doing that with the children's hospital I applied for a position, et cetera. But when the pandemic happened, the resources available to me were Spotify or Instagram were folks that were posting information, again, beware, but information that you could learn bite-size pieces about how they treat, and a lot of folks are doing that, especially in this day and age. So it's a wonderful way to explore. It's not the only one. It just happened to be one of mine. We have a family friend who I also was able to speak to on the phone who is at Hopkins Rehabilitation now and specializes in triathletes and runners. I got to speak to him about his experience. So that's also definitely an option. If you have connects in certain areas and they're willing to speak, ask some questions. Smera Dwivedi: Makes sense. Do you have any advice for somebody who's going through something similar or doesn't know what to do or something? Sonia Punjabi: Of course. So I think Northwestern kids are often certain personalities. They often are extremely high achieving, very bright. There's a reason that we're all in this cool place or we're in this cool place. We really like what we're doing and we're good at things that we're doing, and we want to continue to learn and excel. I also feel that sometimes the perfectionism can mask our abilities to see, "Hey, I have all these really cool things going on," and I might not be where that person is, but I've learned how to speak Mandarin. I've learned how to oil paint in Kresge. I've learned how to code, and I'm a history major. Sometimes it's okay to do something purely out of interest and fun, even if it doesn't feel like, "Oh, this is going to be something on my resume or it's going to take me to this future degree," whether it's a medical degree or a law degree or whatever that may be. It doesn't necessarily have to make sense. I think explore and be okay with making mistakes and being lighthearted about it. I will be totally honest, I think my art theory and practice minor and all of my English classes greatly influenced how I am as a future clinician. I think it's made me really well-rounded, and it's something I love. Typically with the pre-medical track, they may not be like, "Go take an art class." They might give you time, but don't feel like that's not the right thing if you're interested in it. Certainly, there's volunteering, there's health related courses, you have to take all of the prerequisites. Those are a given, but give yourself some space to make mistakes, to be lighthearted, to not be too hard on yourself and to explore. Smera Dwivedi: Well, that's really good advice because I feel like a lot of times I think of the longterm value in all the classes I take and if they're going to benefit my career or resume, so that's- Sonia Punjabi: It's not a bad thought. It's not a bad thought at all, but the pressure can feel like a lot sometimes with that. Smera Dwivedi: So along the same lines, do you regret doing something like that? Do you regret something like in undergrad that you wish you'd done differently? Sonia Punjabi: I think I can say the only thing I regret is being too hard on myself, genuinely. I think you are meant to explore and change your path. They know you're going to do that. If you don't, something's wrong. You are meant to explore, make mistakes and grow and change course. So if you're doing that, you're doing the right thing. So I wouldn't regret anything. I think I had a wonderful time. I explored and I did a lot of really unique things that made my Northwestern experience. Smera Dwivedi: That's reassuring to hear, for sure. So I'm worried I'm going to regret doing certain things or taking certain classes. Sonia Punjabi: I took, like I said, a bunch of art courses for the art minor, and I took English courses for fun because based on my Weinberg credits, I didn't need them, based on my premedical requisites I didn't need them, but I remember them maybe the most, and that's super cool to me. Smera Dwivedi: So other than your classes, and you talked a little bit about social media and how that influenced your decision, other than that, were there any extracurriculars that pushed you towards your career or any that you were like, "Oh, wow, I like this a lot. This is something I want to do in the future," or something like that? Sonia Punjabi: Let me think. Well, I did touch on the dance scene at Northwestern, which is lovely, amazing, super cool. There's a wonderful performing arts scene, as you know. The fact that I loved it so much but had some hurdles on my own participating in it, that was a big hole. I was like, "Gosh. If only I could wholeheartedly with my whole musculoskeletal system participate in this, that would be amazing." And I still did, but just at my own pace since I hadn't found the clinician that was right for me yet. I think that is often a common story in my fields. A lot of my classmates in my cohort, they have their ACL history or they have their shoulder labrums or their hockey injuries, and that is a common segue into the field, but not the only one. Some people come from advertising degrees, business degrees, they have kids, they come from serving in the military, in the Navy. So a lot of paths can lead to this, and much like any other career, many paths can lead to a law degree. Many paths can lead back to medicine if you pursue medical school. I don't want people to think that there's one path to get here. I think I deviated from your question a little bit, so we might need to come back to that. Smera Dwivedi: Totally okay, just whatever you'd like to say. I did want to ask, Ahana, is that the Bollywood dance group or is that the one with the Danyas or which one? Sonia Punjabi: Good question. So I think I auditioned for pretty much all of them when I was a freshman, a first year. Ahana is the noncompetitive, as far as I'm aware, still noncompetitive Bollywood dance, like a film fusion dancing. I remember exploring the Raas team exploring the Bhangra team, exploring TONIK Tap, which I thought was super cool, legendary, such interesting performing artists, the TONIK Tap. I was familiar with Refresh. I hope that there's still a large participation in the dance scene at Northwestern, and I would hope that in the fields in physical therapy, there is more tension given to performing artists now than before because I think that's been a developing part of the field where performing artists have a very unique sense of sport, of what they have to do, demands in the sport, and they haven't always been treated as such. So I think getting proper treatment and having clinicians that understand that is so [inaudible 00:16:36] because then it takes people years to figure out who they need because it's not common knowledge. So little mini plug for all of our dancers out there. If something's not right, don't be afraid to get second opinions and look for clinician that makes sense to you and that treats you to your sport and to your needs. Smera Dwivedi: So did you continue doing Ahana all four years? Sonia Punjabi: I did Ahana for a year-ish, a year-ish. I remember I had to say goodbye to the team my sophomore year, I believe, my second year because of my PT journey. I hadn't found what I needed yet. It was getting tougher to participate in dance, but I think life has a funny way of showing you what you need when you need it. So I've found some really amazing resources, clinicians, worlds of PT that lend themselves back to what I was doing in Ahana like, "Oh, that thing I wanted to do, that's why it was so hard because I hadn't had this training, this treatment, this person." I mean, life is kind of funny like that. Smera Dwivedi: So was it the balance, was it a lot of time commitment, which is why you had to just let it go or were you just like, "I need to be more career-oriented," and some extracurriculars can't be balanced well? What was the driving- Sonia Punjabi: It was actually the physical pain injury stuff. I was having trouble with that, and yeah, it's a tough journey for any athlete for any performing artist when you have to take a break because of that, but I'm really glad my life went the way that it did because I don't know if I would be here if it hadn't. Smera Dwivedi: Do you have any role models growing up or just whenever? Sonia Punjabi: Yeah. So currently, a few of my role models here in the Miami area are the women who work in the subspecialty of PT called pelvic floor therapy. It's a therapy that you might not recognize applies to more than just pregnant folk because, certainly, that's a population that needs pelvic floor PT at times, but there are subspecialty of PT that works with stability, strength, integrity and function of the pelvis and the things in the pelvis. So this is bladder and bowel function, this is sexual health, and this is pain, injury, et cetera. They're so cool. I have a wonderful mentor in the Delray, Boca Raton area who has her own clinic, and she's always available for me to ask questions, for me to come in and say like, "Hey, can I participate as a shadow? Can I see who you're treating today?" if they're comfortable with it. She's wonderful. And then I have my own clinicians here, actually, that have treated me, that have seen me throughout my own journey who are so smart, so interesting, such fun individuals to provide support. They show me that being a colorful human is not only allowed but also encouraged in a field where you're treating humans. So I think if we handle ourselves with imperfect grace, that's great. That's going to be a wonderful way to connect with people when you show them like you're doing your best and you are acknowledging when things get a little twisted and continuing on. So definitely my role models in pelvic PT, my parents and my brother who are all Northwestern alum. We are a very purple family. They are definitely a big support system to me. There are so many other people on the list, my sister-in-Law, my brother's wife and the cat outside. Essentially, your support system cheers you on, and the mentors and the role models I have are often one and the same, so to keep it light. Smera Dwivedi: Right. Good to know. It's also nice to have a support system, for sure. Sonia Punjabi: Absolutely. Oh, I should probably mention, if you do another degree after Northwestern, all of the faculty, all of the clinicians, all the people who are teaching you become amazing role models and support systems. A little shout out to the faculty and staff at the University of Miami Physical Therapy Program. They're a family. That's why I came. They are like a bonafide family. They will care for you. They will help you to the point of texting you when something's wrong or you texting them when something's wrong and they'll respond to you. They are available by email. They're available to meet with you. They're honestly available to give life advice. I have a faculty member's book sitting in my bookcase right now. So if you're open to being vulnerable, which is a huge part of what peer advisor training teaches you, people will help. Smera Dwivedi: Okay. So you talked a little bit about your post post-grad struggles. Sonia Punjabi: So again, every chapter is going to have its own flavor of ups and downs. When I graduated from Northwestern, so bittersweet, amazing, very exciting. I started a gap year position at a Miami-based gym and physical therapy clinic. I was doing their photography, their media, their patient and client interactions. It was amazing because I got to learn all these wonderful things from people who were already doing it ahead in this part of the career, but it was tough because I didn't have any peers and I felt a little bit like an island. So that can be a little isolating when you have a new chapter and you feel like you're on your own footing and you would benefit maybe from seeing where some of your classmates are or having a peer that's just at the same stage of life. So it was helpful when someone else came in at that position who was applying to med school, and so we had that commonality of life chapter. Smera Dwivedi: That's nice that you were able to navigate through that. So your two years post ... You said you graduated in 2021? Sonia Punjabi: I did, yes, in June 2021. Smera Dwivedi: So you mentioned your doctorate program that you have to get back to. What is that? Sonia Punjabi: Yes. So the PT program, typically in the United States now, are three-year programs and they're doctorates. So when you graduate, you have a doctorate of physical therapy, and then you take the licensing exam to practice. So okay, you have the doctorate, you're knowledgeable, now you're allowed to practice. So that is where I am. I'm in the third year and I'm finishing classwork in October, and then October through May for our program, we have three clinicals in a row where we get to have hands-on experience with a clinical instructor who will oversee you and you'll treat people in the hospital, you'll treat pediatrics if you're into that. For me, I'm going to be treating pelvic in March. So this termination of the program is really hands-on practical work. Smera Dwivedi: Got it. Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to say or, I don't know, speak about, give advice for anything? Sonia Punjabi: Open-ended. I have silly versions of this answer and I have serious versions. Do you want both? Silly versions. Still, they hold weight, go check out Bookends and Beginnings. It's, I think, still in the alley at where the box is. You know where the campus gear store is? Smera Dwivedi: Yeah. Sonia Punjabi: There's an alley, there's a bookstore in there. They also have a book front, which is beautiful, if I'm remembering correctly, on Sherman. I think it's on Sherman. Go check it out. It was my little lifeline during PT or not PT school, during my Northwestern undergrad experience. And if the fourth floor of North still exists- Smera Dwivedi: Yeah. They're doing some construction with North, but it's like they're adding a pub of something. Sonia Punjabi: Interesting. Smera Dwivedi: There's still like a third and fourth floor. Yes. Sonia Punjabi: I think it's the fourth floor and people don't know about it. If you take a staircase, go check that out if nobody knows about that yet. Smera Dwivedi: It's nice and quiet up there, for sure. Sonia Punjabi: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I think I have a few about the library. Do they still take out the Mario Kart Wii during reading week? Smera Dwivedi: Yes, of course. Sonia Punjabi: Okay. Good. Play a lot of that. Do a lot of that. Participate in every primal screen you can. Smera Dwivedi: Haven't done that yet, actually. Sonia Punjabi: Yeah, you should. I think it's 9:00 PM. Is it the Sunday before finals? Smera Dwivedi: Yeah, I believe so, around that time. Sonia Punjabi: Do that. If you're feeling adventurous, go take a look at Blick, the art store near where the movie theater used to be. Smera Dwivedi: There's still a movie theater there, the AMC. Sonia Punjabi: Oh, surprising. I'm sure more fun, silly ones will come to mind, but my gist here is just explore just a cool place. Evanston's a great place. Northwestern's a great community. Don't be afraid to strike up conversations with people you haven't really crossed paths with. Serious ones would be don't be afraid of change. Change is the only constant. It's that very famous saying or phrase. Don't be afraid of change with anything, with undergrad, with your personal life, with post-grad. Don't be resistant to change. It will often make you better. Smera Dwivedi: No, good to know. I do. Sonia Punjabi: Yeah, of course. Smera Dwivedi: Well, I mean, that was really helpful for me to consider. Thank you so much for your advice and for talking about your career and personal stuff about your life and [inaudible 00:25:50] I appreciate it. Sonia Punjabi: If anyone has questions about the physical therapy world, I'm more than happy to chat, to get on a video call, phone call. It's a really cool place. I think a lot of health leaning undergrads may not know this is an option for them or what it even looks like. There are a million different things you could do in PT. You can help folks post-stroke walk again. You can help folks post-spinal cord injury participate in leisure, in recreation. For me, I can help folks during pregnancy or if you just want to rehab ankles and pediatrics who play soccer, do that. It's a cool field. Consider it, and I'm here for questions. Smera Dwivedi: Okay. Thank you. Sonia Punjabi: Yeah, of course. Smera Dwivedi: We appreciate you tuning into the special edition of the podcast, Weinberg in the World. Go Cats. We hope you have an amazing day.

This special episode features the most recent edition of Weinberg College’s faculty speaker series “Conversation with the Dean.” This event series is designed to deliver insights into cutting-edge research and teaching from faculty experts around the College. The events are offered live to Weinberg College Leadership Society donors with a real-time Q&A. In this conversation, Professor of English Chris Abani and Dean Adrian Randolph discuss “ubuntu,” a concept that recognizes our interconnectedness, the importance of an English major in today’s world, and the Program in African Studies, which holds the largest collection of African and Africana books and artifacts outside of Africa.  Weinberg College Leadership Giving Society: https://giving.northwestern.edu/s/1479/282-giving/21/interior3.aspx?pgid=7407&gid=282   Explore more "Conversations with the Dean": https://weinberg.northwestern.edu/after-graduation/for-alumni/conversations-with-the-dean/

This special episode features the most recent edition of Weinberg College’s faculty speaker series “Conversation with the Dean.” This event series is designed to deliver insights into cutting-edge research and teaching from faculty experts around the College. The events are offered live to Weinberg College Leadership Society donors with a real-time Q&A. In this conversation, Professor of Chemistry Shana Kelley and Dean Adrian Randolph discuss creating new tools to diagnose and treat diseases, the importance of interdisciplinary and translational research at Weinberg College, and the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub: a new and cutting edge collaboration between Northwestern, UChicago, and the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Weinberg College Leadership Giving Society: https://giving.northwestern.edu/s/1479/282-giving/21/interior3.aspx?pgid=7407&gid=282   Explore more "Conversations with the Dean:" https://weinberg.northwestern.edu/after-graduation/for-alumni/conversations-with-the-dean/shana-kelley.html

This special episode features the most recent edition of Weinberg College’s faculty speaker series “Conversation with the Dean.” This event series is designed to deliver insights into cutting-edge research and teaching from faculty experts around the College. The events are offered live to Weinberg College Leadership Society donors with a real-time Q&A. In this conversation, Professor of English Susie Phillips and Dean Adrian Randolph discuss why teaching matters, how asking bold questions can open entire worlds of “speculative possibility” in scholarship, and the power of gossip.   Leadership Giving Society: https://giving.northwestern.edu/s/1479/282-giving/21/interior3.aspx?pgid=7407&gid=28 Explore more "Conversations with the Dean:" https://weinberg.northwestern.edu/after-graduation/for-alumni/conversations-with-the-dean/   

This episode features clips from this year’s Weinberg College Career Summit alumni panels where a few alumni share stories about some of their most impactful classes and how those classes helped them in their future careers. Alumni from our Energy & Sustainability and Startups & Entrepreneurship alumni panels talked about an array of classes that helped them form arguments and think differently about their industries. ·         Timestamps: 0:00: Introduction 0:45: Impactful Sustainability Classes with Ariel Drehobl ’12 and Mark Silberg ’14 3:55: Impactful Entrepreneurship Classes with Jin Hwang ‘01 5:55: Outro https://weinberg.northwestern.edu/after-graduation/student-alumni-connections/whats-new/2023-2024/career-summit-2023-final.html   

This special episode features the most recent edition of Weinberg College’s faculty speaker series “Conversation with the Dean.” This event series is designed to deliver insights into cutting-edge research and teaching from faculty experts around the College. The events are offered live to Weinberg College Leadership Society donors with a real-time Q&A. In this conversation, Professor of History and Director of the Latina and Latino Studies Program, Gerry Cadava and Dean Adrian Randolph discuss the meaning of diversity in the United States through the lens of Latino identity, as our nation approaches its 250th anniversary.   Weinberg College Leadership Giving Society: https://giving.northwestern.edu/s/1479/282-giving/21/interior3.aspx?pgid=7407&gid=282   Explore more “Conversations with the Dean”: https://weinberg.northwestern.edu/after-graduation/for-alumni/conversations-with-the-dean/ 

This episode features highlights from the career summit focusing on the changing landscapes in these industries. Speakers from all three fields discuss topics such as hybrid work, work-life balance, travel expectations, and more. Timestamps: ·         0:00: Introduction ·         0:45: Trends in Marketing ·         2:45: Trends in Consulting ·         5:20: Trends in Healthcare ·         8:30: Outro