The Underground

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Aug 2026

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Exploring the future of garden care. The underground podcast is a place where the disparate worlds of horticulture and marketing collide. Kate Turner, the Gardener Guru and Phil Wright, co-founder of creative agency WrightObara, team up to discover the trailblazers and innovators shaping the future of garden care in the UK. With content that’s as relevant to start-ups as it would be to established players, we look to cover the hottest topics and trends you need to know. From plants to products, environmental concerns to legislation, we’ll dig deep to bring you the inside story.

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August 17, 2026Episode 137 min

How to Survive Glee: The Garden Industry’s Best Tips

Glee is one of the biggest dates in the garden industry calendar. It’s also three very long days of walking, talking, networking, discovering new products and trying to remember who said what by the time you get home.So, ahead of Glee 2026, we’ve delved back into Season 1 of The Underground and brought together some of the best Glee survival advice from our guests. And between them, they’ve clocked up a lot of exhibition miles. We hear tips from garden centre leaders, suppliers, marketers, PR professionals, journalists, growers and industry organisations on how to get more from the show, whether you’re exhibiting or visiting. There’s plenty of practical advice: comfortable shoes, hydration, planning your meetings, taking useful notes, making time to explore every aisle and following up properly afterwards. But there are some bigger lessons too. How do you make the most of chance conversations? What should an exhibitor actually be trying to achieve? Why should your product packaging be able to sell the story without somebody standing beside it? And why might staying until the very last bell lead to a customer relationship that lasts ten years? You’ll also discover the importance of yoga, a good breakfast, emergency plasters, strategic coffee consumption and, apparently, the correct way to end a conversation. Featuring advice from Alan Roper, Boyd Douglas-Davies, Debi Holland, Elaine Gotts, Ellen Mary, Fran Barnes, Guy Jenkins, Jane Hartley, Jane Lawler, Kate Ebbens, Kimberley Hornby-George, Linda Petrons, Matthew Mein, Megan Warren-Davis, Michael Perry, Simon Taylor, Steve Harper, Toby Thomas, Vicky Nuttall and Will Scott. The Underground is the official podcast partner of Glee 2026.

August 11, 2026Episode 630 min

The Future of the Garden Industry: One Year On

With Glee just a month away, we’re heading back to Birmingham, as well as the conversations we recorded there last year. At Glee 2025, we asked every guest who joined us one simple question: What’s one change you’d love to see in the garden sector over the next five years?The answers gave us a fascinating snapshot of where the industry thought change was needed. We heard calls for more young people to discover gardening and horticulture, better training for people entering the industry, greater support for independent garden centres and much more ambitious use of digital technology. Our guests also talked about sustainability, peat-free growing media, water conservation, online retail, AI and how garden centres themselves could evolve. There were plenty of big ideas too, from turning garden centres into evening destinations to rethinking the way plants are merchandised. A year on, and with the industry preparing to come together at Glee again, it feels like the perfect time to revisit those conversations. Which ideas are beginning to happen? Which challenges are still with us? And if we asked the same question at Glee this year, would the answers be any different?Featuring voices from across garden retail, horticulture, suppliers, marketing and the wider garden sector.

August 4, 2026Episode 533 min

Plants, People and the Growth of Perrywood Garden Centres

From a four-acre smallholding growing strawberries and potatoes to three award-winning garden centres, Perrywood’s story is one of family, plants and steady growth. In this episode, Phil and Kate talk to Hannah Powell, HR and Communications Director at Perrywood Garden Centres, about how the business has expanded without losing the values that shaped it. Hannah explains why plants remain at the heart of Perrywood, how industry standards have encouraged continuous improvement, and why knowledgeable, well-supported teams are central to the customer experience. They also discuss attracting younger customers, the power of a successful loyalty programme, making sustainable choices, the pressures facing garden centre businesses and how climate change could affect what customers grow in the future. Along the way, Hannah shares why gardening is her therapy and how a visit to a garden centre can offer people far more than a shopping trip.

July 27, 2026Episode 148 min

How People Choose: Emotion, Strategy and Creative Marketing with Phil Wright

This week, the tables are turned as Kate interviews The Underground co-host Phil Wright, co-founder of creative marketing agency WrightObara.Phil recently wrote an in-depth article exploring how people choose one product over another. In this conversation, he explains why those decisions are rarely driven by facts, features and price alone — and why good creative marketing needs to do more than simply explain what a product does.The discussion begins with Phil’s slightly irrational desire for an iPod Nano and develops into a wider conversation about emotion, gut feeling, brand perception, strategy and creativity. Phil and Kate explore: Why rational versus irrational is often the wrong distinction How brands become a collection of promises and experiences Why research and analysis are not the same as strategy How creativity helps products get noticed, understood and remembered The emotions that can influence even practical garden purchases Why brands need to persuade both the retail buyer and the shopper Whether emotional marketing is persuasive or manipulative Why explaining a product is rarely enough to make people want it It is also a chance to learn a little more about Phil, the thinking behind WrightObara and why understanding how people choose has become central to the agency’s work. Read Phil’s full article, How people choose: emotion, reason and the power of creative marketing: https://wrightobara.com/blog/how-people-choose-emotion-reason-and-the-power-of-creative-marketing/ Find out more about WrightObara: www.wrightobara.com

July 21, 2026Episode 351 min

From Dig for Victory to AI: How Gardening Is Changing with Ross Pearson

Garden writer and horticultural lecturer Ross Pearson joins Phil and Kate to talk about his ambitious Dig for Victory allotment project and what wartime growing advice can still teach gardeners today. Ross has set out to grow food using guidance originally produced by the Ministry of Agriculture, exploring what might have been lost as gardening has become more convenient. The conversation covers the importance of healthy soil, compost, manure and crop rotation, alongside the growing expectation that gardens should deliver instant results. They also discuss the role garden centres play in shaping what people buy, whether confidence is sometimes mistaken for expertise on social media, and why follower numbers increasingly influence opportunities for garden writers and horticultural professionals. Ross speaks honestly about the demands of creating gardening content, his concerns about AI-generated advice and articles, and why the enthusiasm he sees among younger people gives him confidence in the future of horticulture. The conversation also reveals where Ross’s love of gardening began, with warm memories of his grandfather Jackie, his allotment and “the Jackie way” of doing things. Follow Ross on Instagram and TikTok: @rosspearsongardening

July 13, 2026Episode 229 min

Why Print Still Matters in Garden Retail – Nick Trachillis, The Garden Centre Magazine

At a time when so much marketing is measured in clicks, what can a physical magazine still offer garden centres, suppliers and their customers? In this episode of The Underground, Phil and Kate are joined by Nick Trachillis, director of The Garden Centre Magazine. Nick explains how the business creates bespoke magazines for garden centres across the UK, free to both the centre and its customers and funded by national and local advertisers. They discuss the importance of useful editorial content, how to balance the needs of readers and advertisers, and why a magazine taken home can continue working long after a customer has left the garden centre. The conversation also covers the challenge of measuring print advertising, the value of loyal local audiences, the role of cafés and restaurants in increasing dwell time, and how print and digital can work alongside each other. Nick also shares the family story behind the business, its long-standing support for Greenfingers Charity, and his belief in natural growth, strong relationships and creating a workplace people genuinely enjoy being part of. A warm and practical conversation for garden centre owners, suppliers, marketers and anyone interested in customer communication across the garden retail sector.

July 7, 2026Episode 149 min

Dr Ana Attlee on Seedball, Wildflowers and Pollinators

We're back for a brand new season of The Underground Podcast!In our first episode, Phil and Kate are joined by Dr Ana Attlee, co-founder of Seedball, to talk about wildflowers, pollinators, biodiversity and the role garden centres can play in helping people make more wildlife-friendly choices.Seedball was created to make growing wildflowers from seed as simple as possible. Ana shares how Seedball grew from academic research and a passion for conservation into a mission-led garden product stocked by retailers including garden centres. The conversation explores the loss of wildflower meadows, the importance of bees and other pollinators, why wildlife gardening needs to feel hopeful rather than overwhelming, and how small spaces can still make a real difference.Phil and Kate also talk to Ana about working with organisations such as Kew Gardens, and why garden centres are so important in normalising wildlife-friendly gardening for every generation.A hopeful, practical and inspiring conversation about native wildflowers, biodiversity, sustainable gardening and the power of making environmental action feel achievable.Find out more about Seedball: https://seedball.co.uk/Your hosts:Phil Wright: ⁠http://wrightobara.com⁠Kate Turner: ⁠http://www.gardenerguru.co.uk

December 10, 2025Episode 1229 min

The Next Five Years of Garden Retail – Voices from Glee 2025

What’s the one change you’d most like to see in garden retail over the next five years? At Glee 2025, we put that question to all 20 of our guests who joined us in The Underground podcast booth – from garden centre owners and suppliers to marketeers, educators and innovators. The result is a sharp, hopeful snapshot of where the garden sector wants to head next. In this compilation episode you’ll hear from voices including: Amy and Libby Stubbs (British Garden Centres), Kate Ebbens (Woodlodge), Michael Perry (Mr Plant Geek), Boyd Douglas-Davies, Peter Burks (GCA), Nigel Thompson (Sipcam Home and Garden), Helen Thomas and Simon Taylor (Empathy), Steve Harper (Grass Gains & Responsible Sourcing Scheme), Vanessa Cranford (Spring Marketing), Aaron Rudman-Hawkins (The Evergreen Agency), Barry Knight (The Full Range), Kaz Edwards (Heart of Eden) Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst (Durstons), Nat Boynton and Meg Warren-Davis (YPHA), Tony Kersey (GIMA), Paul Oliver (the Urban Nature Store) Rev Dave Walker (Birleymoor Garden Centre), Belle Richardson (Seal Stop) and Paul Pleydell (Pleydell Smithyman). Themes that keep coming up: Attracting younger and more diverse customers into garden centres and horticulture. Better education and funded training for new entrants and shop-floor teams. Peat-free growing media, soil health and biofertilisers becoming the norm. Smarter use of digital, AI and ecommerce to support modern customer journeys. Stronger sustainability standards, water-saving innovation and support for independents at the heart of local communities. If you’re a garden retailer, supplier or brand marketer, this is a 360-degree view of the sector’s hopes, frustrations and priorities as we look towards 2030. ⁠Discover more about our hosts:Kate Turner: ⁠www.gardenerguru.co.uk⁠Phil Wright: ⁠www.wrightobara.com

December 3, 2025Episode 1150 min

Soil Health, Plant Food & Profit: The Future of Plant Nutrition with Grass Gains & Empathy - Glee 2025

The science of plant nutrition is moving fast, and it is reshaping everything from peat-free compost to profit margins on the shop floor. In this Glee 2025 special, Phil and Kate sit down with Steve Harper , MD of Grass Gains and Chair of the Responsible Sourcing Scheme , and then with Simon Taylor and Helen Thomas from Empathy, Plantworks , to explore what comes next for lawn care, plant feeds and bio-fertilisers in garden retail. Steve explains how Grass Gains is bringing professional-grade lawn products and a new peat-free specific plant food, Bloom, into the consumer market, why excess potassium is sabotaging plant performance in peat-free, and how challenger brands can use social media and TikTok lives to build demand and push back against “blocked out” categories on the shelves. Simon and Helen then lift the lid on Empathy’s latest bio-fertilisers and plant-specific feeds, from RootGrow to the new Green Room houseplant range, all designed with soil biology and peat-free compost in mind. They share how mycorrhizal fungi and beneficial bacteria are moving from agriculture into home gardening, how their virtual advice assistant Emily uses AI to support staff and consumers, and why clever attachment selling on the till can meaningfully lift basket spend without cannibalising other lines. In this episode, we cover: Why soil health, not just NPK, is the real foundation of resilient plants in a peat-free world How Grass Gains is positioning as a challenger brand through product quality, format and social media, rather than big-budget advertising The peat-free transition: where the Responsible Sourcing Scheme is now, and what a new quality mark could mean for retailers and consumers The rise of bio-fertilisers: mycorrhizal fungi, beneficial bacteria and what they can do for garden centre customers Empathy’s new product development, packaging and in-store attachment strategies that increase average basket value How AI advice tools like Emily can support, not replace, expert staff on the shop floor If you work in the garden sector and want to understand where plant nutrition, soil health and attachment selling are heading next, this episode is for you. Subscribe to The Underground and visit theunderground.fm to get new episodes and sector insights straight to your inbox.

November 26, 20251 hr 0 min

Loyalty, Ads & Footfall: Modern Marketing for Garden Centres - Glee 2025

Marketing for garden centres is changing fast. In this Glee 2025 episode of The Underground, Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with two specialists to explore how loyalty data and paid media can work together to drive footfall, sales and long-term customer value in the home and garden sector. First up, Vanessa Cranford from Spring Marketing explains why garden centre loyalty schemes should be treated as profit engines, not cost centres. Drawing on two decades of experience and data from over 100 UK sites, she shows how EPOS-linked loyalty programmes can lift average transaction value by around 50%, increase visit frequency and turn your best customers into brand advocates, all while giving you clearer visibility of churn and customer lifetime value. Then, Aaron Rudman-Hawkins from The Evergreen Agency joins Phil to demystify paid search and paid social for home and garden brands. He breaks down when ads work (and when they don’t), why average order value and lifetime value matter so much, and how to think about budgets by working backwards from revenue goals . He also shares how localised search and smart retargeting can help garden centres “win the postcode and win the weekend”. In this episode you’ll learn: Why loyalty should sit at the heart of your marketing communications, not off to one side How EPOS-integrated loyalty schemes reveal who your high-value “protect at all cost” customers really are Practical examples of using purchase data to upsell, cross-sell and drive repeat visits (from roses to hot drink cards) Common myths about older customers and apps, and how to get teams excited about scanning cards and using data The difference between search and social, and how to use both to capture intent and nudge customers back in-store Why lower-ticket products can struggle with ads, and how repeat purchase or premium ranges can change the equation Whether you’re running a single site or a multi-centre group, this episode is packed with practical, data-driven ideas to modernise your marketing, make better use of the customers you already have, and turn “just another loyalty card” into a real competitive advantage. Spring Marketing: http://springmarketing.co.uk/ The Evergreen Agency: http://theevergreenagency.co.uk/