The Underground

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Dec 2025

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Exploring the future of garden care. The underground podcast is a place where the disparate worlds of horticulture and marketing collide. Kate Turner, the Gardener Guru and Phil Wright, co-founder of creative agency WrightObara, team up to discover the trailblazers and innovators shaping the future of garden care in the UK. With content that’s as relevant to start-ups as it would be to established players, we look to cover the hottest topics and trends you need to know. From plants to products, environmental concerns to legislation, we’ll dig deep to bring you the inside story.

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December 10, 2025Episode 1229 min

The Next Five Years of Garden Retail – Voices from Glee 2025

What’s the one change you’d most like to see in garden retail over the next five years? At Glee 2025, we put that question to all 20 of our guests who joined us in The Underground podcast booth – from garden centre owners and suppliers to marketeers, educators and innovators. The result is a sharp, hopeful snapshot of where the garden sector wants to head next. In this compilation episode you’ll hear from voices including:Amy and Libby Stubbs (British Garden Centres), Kate Ebbens (Woodlodge), Michael Perry (Mr Plant Geek), Boyd Douglas-Davies, Peter Burks (GCA), Nigel Thompson (Sipcam Home and Garden), Helen Thomas and Simon Taylor (Empathy), Steve Harper (Grass Gains & Responsible Sourcing Scheme), Vanessa Cranford (Spring Marketing), Aaron Rudman-Hawkins (The Evergreen Agency), Barry Knight (The Full Range), Kaz Edwards (Heart of Eden) Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst (Durstons), Nat Boynton and Meg Warren-Davis (YPHA), Tony Kersey (GIMA), Paul Oliver (the Urban Nature Store) Rev Dave Walker (Birleymoor Garden Centre), Belle Richardson (Seal Stop) and Paul Pleydell (Pleydell Smithyman). Themes that keep coming up:Attracting younger and more diverse customers into garden centres and horticulture. Better education and funded training for new entrants and shop-floor teams. Peat-free growing media, soil health and biofertilisers becoming the norm. Smarter use of digital, AI and ecommerce to support modern customer journeys. Stronger sustainability standards, water-saving innovation and support for independents at the heart of local communities. If you’re a garden retailer, supplier or brand marketer, this is a 360-degree view of the sector’s hopes, frustrations and priorities as we look towards 2030.⁠Discover more about our hosts:Kate Turner: ⁠www.gardenerguru.co.uk⁠Phil Wright: ⁠www.wrightobara.com

December 3, 2025Episode 1150 min

Soil Health, Plant Food & Profit: The Future of Plant Nutrition with Grass Gains & Empathy - Glee 2025

The science of plant nutrition is moving fast, and it is reshaping everything from peat-free compost to profit margins on the shop floor. In this Glee 2025 special, Phil and Kate sit down with Steve Harper, MD of Grass Gains and Chair of the Responsible Sourcing Scheme, and then with Simon Taylor and Helen Thomas from Empathy, Plantworks, to explore what comes next for lawn care, plant feeds and bio-fertilisers in garden retail. Steve explains how Grass Gains is bringing professional-grade lawn products and a new peat-free specific plant food, Bloom, into the consumer market, why excess potassium is sabotaging plant performance in peat-free, and how challenger brands can use social media and TikTok lives to build demand and push back against “blocked out” categories on the shelves. Simon and Helen then lift the lid on Empathy’s latest bio-fertilisers and plant-specific feeds, from RootGrow to the new Green Room houseplant range, all designed with soil biology and peat-free compost in mind. They share how mycorrhizal fungi and beneficial bacteria are moving from agriculture into home gardening, how their virtual advice assistant Emily uses AI to support staff and consumers, and why clever attachment selling on the till can meaningfully lift basket spend without cannibalising other lines. In this episode, we cover:Why soil health, not just NPK, is the real foundation of resilient plants in a peat-free worldHow Grass Gains is positioning as a challenger brand through product quality, format and social media, rather than big-budget advertisingThe peat-free transition: where the Responsible Sourcing Scheme is now, and what a new quality mark could mean for retailers and consumersThe rise of bio-fertilisers: mycorrhizal fungi, beneficial bacteria and what they can do for garden centre customersEmpathy’s new product development, packaging and in-store attachment strategies that increase average basket valueHow AI advice tools like Emily can support, not replace, expert staff on the shop floor If you work in the garden sector and want to understand where plant nutrition, soil health and attachment selling are heading next, this episode is for you. Subscribe to The Underground and visit theunderground.fm to get new episodes and sector insights straight to your inbox.

November 26, 20251 hr 0 min

Loyalty, Ads & Footfall: Modern Marketing for Garden Centres - Glee 2025

Marketing for garden centres is changing fast. In this Glee 2025 episode of The Underground, Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with two specialists to explore how loyalty data and paid media can work together to drive footfall, sales and long-term customer value in the home and garden sector.First up, Vanessa Cranford from Spring Marketing explains why garden centre loyalty schemes should be treated as profit engines, not cost centres. Drawing on two decades of experience and data from over 100 UK sites, she shows how EPOS-linked loyalty programmes can lift average transaction value by around 50%, increase visit frequency and turn your best customers into brand advocates, all while giving you clearer visibility of churn and customer lifetime value.Then, Aaron Rudman-Hawkins from The Evergreen Agency joins Phil to demystify paid search and paid social for home and garden brands. He breaks down when ads work (and when they don’t), why average order value and lifetime value matter so much, and how to think about budgets by working backwards from revenue goals . He also shares how localised search and smart retargeting can help garden centres “win the postcode and win the weekend”.In this episode you’ll learn:Why loyalty should sit at the heart of your marketing communications, not off to one sideHow EPOS-integrated loyalty schemes reveal who your high-value “protect at all cost” customers really arePractical examples of using purchase data to upsell, cross-sell and drive repeat visits (from roses to hot drink cards)Common myths about older customers and apps, and how to get teams excited about scanning cards and using dataThe difference between search and social, and how to use both to capture intent and nudge customers back in-storeWhy lower-ticket products can struggle with ads, and how repeat purchase or premium ranges can change the equationWhether you’re running a single site or a multi-centre group, this episode is packed with practical, data-driven ideas to modernise your marketing, make better use of the customers you already have, and turn “just another loyalty card” into a real competitive advantage.Spring Marketing: http://springmarketing.co.uk/The Evergreen Agency: http://theevergreenagency.co.uk/

November 19, 2025Episode 742 min

Tony Kersey, GIMA & Belle Richardson, Seal Stop: Live from Glee 2025

Recorded live on the show floor at Glee 2025, this episode of The Underground discovers how the garden sector is nurturing innovation, supporting newcomers and helping customers navigate a changing retail landscape.Phil and Kate first sit down with Tony Kersey, Membership Ambassador at GIMA, to explore why the trade association is seeing record growth, how it is supporting over 200 members, and what smaller suppliers really need to know to make the most of a show like Glee. Tony shares how the supplier–retailer relationship is evolving, the rise of marketplace and e-commerce teams, and why collaboration is now critical for bringing “newness” and sustainability to market.On the Evergreen Garden Care stand, Jude and Nick talk about the buzz at this year’s show, the 2026 relaunch of Miracle-Gro on TV, and why garden brands must do more to educate consumers, simplify complex categories like controls and weedkillers, and help garden centres bring new gardeners into the category with confidence.Finally, Phil and Kate are joined by Belle Richardson, radiographer-turned-inventor and founder of Seal Stop, winner of the GIMA Seed Corn Fund 2025. Belle shares the story behind her water-saving valve, why British manufacturing and durability matter, and how she is working with water companies and the leisure sector to tackle water waste without greenwashing.Perfect listening for garden brands, suppliers and retailers planning their next season, and their next big idea.Tony Kersey: http://gima.org.ukBelle Richardson: http://sealstop.co.uk

November 12, 2025Episode 859 min

Make It Memorable with Paul Pleydell & Barry Knight - Glee 2025 Live

Garden centres aren’t just about plants anymore. Recorded live at Glee 2025, Phil & Kate sit down with Paul Pleydell of Pleydell Smithyman and Barry Knight of The Full Range to unpack how experience, smart design and a considered food offer can lift margins, smooth seasonality and win younger families. From “make it better before you make it bigger” to being famous for something (yes, even a lemon meringue pie a foot high), this episode is packed full of ideas for teams who want their site to be talked about for the right reasons.GuestsPaul Pleydell — Director, Pleydell Smithyman, design & business consultants for the garden and rural sector.Barry Knight — Director, The Full Range, food procurement & consultancy serving 50+ independent garden centres.What you’ll learn:Experience first: If a customer can’t finish the sentence, “I went to your garden centre and guess what…”, you’ve not created a memorable visit. Make signature moments people want to share.Food as a profit engine: Why cafés and food halls boost dwell time, attract younger families, and should lead your site’s highest margins, when the offer is right.Be famous for something: From giant scones to a stand-out “signature dish,” create a hook that earns word-of-mouth.Data over guesswork: Use EPOS and management accounts to prune the tail, reset ranges and protect profit - low CapEx, high impact.Weather-proofing revenue: To flatten peaks and troughs.Independent edge: How local agility, attention to detail and service can outclass chain buying power on value felt by customers.Perfect forOwners, directors and managers in independent garden centres; teams planning refurbishments; anyone growing hospitality, food hall or café performance.Enjoy the episode, and if it sparks an idea, share it with your team and tag us.

November 6, 2025Episode 755 min

Lee Connelly & Sipcam’s Nigel Thompson on Schools, Greener Gardening, and Innovation

Recorded at Glee 2025, Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with Lee Connelly, the Children’s Gardening Coach (formerly Skinny Jean Gardener), and Nigel Thompson, Sales & Marketing Director at Sipcam Home & Garden, to explore how the trade can engage families, support schools, and modernise product ranges for today’s consumer. Expect practical ideas for garden centres, insight on brand-building as a challenger, and new product thinking across outdoor and houseplant care. What you’ll hearSchool gardening at scale: Lee’s 2025 tour reached 10,000 children in a single week across 30 schools, sparking classroom-to-home participation and long-term follow-up with teachers. He argues for sustained brand investment in primary as well as secondary to seed future gardeners and employees. Making garden centres true family destinations: low-cost activities that create reasons to dwell, learn and buy—without feeling like a “kids’ corner” bolt-on. Greener gardening in practice: Nigel outlines Sipcam’s focus on ecofective®, simplifying purchase and sell-through for retailers while keeping efficacy front and centre.Challenger brand mindset: why being smaller enables creative risk-taking, sharper points of difference, and faster iteration. From activation to legacy: how Sipcam partnered with Lee (30 schools supported in total, with the team volunteering locally) to prioritise impact over quick-win influencer content. GuestsLee Connelly — The Children’s Gardening Coach. Campaigning to get gardening into the curriculum and designing joyful, memorable experiences that stick with kids and teachers. https://www.childrensgardeningcoach.co.ukNigel Thompson — Sales & Marketing Director, Sipcam Home & Garden. Steering ecofective®, Fito and Get Off with a “greener gardening” strategy and a challenger’s eye for distinctive propositions. https://www.sipcamhg.co.uk

October 29, 202541 min

Glee 2025: Live Q&A with Blue Diamond’s Alan Roper

In this live Glee Q&A, Phil sits down with Alan Roper, Managing Director of Blue Diamond Garden Centres, for a frank look at what really drives performance in modern garden retail: culture, commercial discipline, and relentless differentiation.Roper explains why scale only works when the “engine room” is tuned for profit and cash, not vanity growth; why benchmarking and ownership culture beat top-down control; how demographic waves continue to pull new gardeners into the category; and where the next profit centres are likely to emerge. He also gives a straight-talking view on British supply, sustainability trade-offs, and the role of social media creativity in sparking demand.Culture + cash over vanity metrics: Growth that sticks comes from building a tight culture, clear customer relationships and rigorous profit control “every step of the way” – using cash generated, not over-leveraging on debt. Retail basics that still win: “Right product, right place, right time, right commitment” remains the core operating system for stores and teams. Demographics & demand: Younger audiences typically reconnect with gardening as life stages shift, with houseplants and community programmes (e.g., Acorn Gardening Club) acting as effective on-ramps. Ownership culture & benchmarking: Centres see each other’s figures, act on conversion insights (back the winning genuses), and keep local DNA intact while improving performance. Innovation = new profit centres: Seek true novelty (from rechargeable outdoor lighting to pergolas) to unlock "new money". Back British where it adds difference: Smaller UK suppliers can deliver point-of-difference ranges and resilience. Who should listen? Garden centre leaders, brand and category managers, and suppliers looking to understand how the UK’s leading group is thinking about growth, assortment, and customer connection in 2025.

October 21, 2025Episode 51 hr 9 min

Michael Perry's “Future Plants” and Canada’s Urban Nature Store on trends, retail experience, and reliable supply chains

This episode takes on a distinctly international feel: once again at Glee 2025, Phil and Kate sit down with two voices from opposite sides of the Atlantic who share a common mission: get more people excited about nature, and make it easier for retailers to serve them brilliantly.First up, Michael Perry (Mr Plant Geek) explains why he now calls himself a plant promoter, what makes a plant “promotion-worthy,” and the nine trend pillars he’s been touring the halls with: from “Go green or go lean” to “Hedges & Wedges” (living mulch done right). He also spotlights curiosities from his Future Plants display: conifers with character, fragrance-forward bedding, and the odd show-stopping black dahlia.Then we switch gears to Paul Oliver, founder of The Urban Nature Store in Toronto, who shares a retailer’s view on category expansion and community: bird seed as the weekly staple, complemented by gifts, books, optics, kids’ kits, and in-store walks that turn shoppers into a social club. He unpacks why his team is diversifying away from US-centred supply in favour of partners with predictable landed costs, highlighting opportunities for UK and European brands that can ship reliably to Canada and evidence robust sustainability credentials.There’s also a brief check-in with Gardenex on exporting support and the ever-popular Meet the Buyer sessions at Glee. If you’re a brand, buyer, or garden centre operator, this episode is packed with practical pointers on product selection, trend-led merchandising, sustainability signalling, and cross-channel content that actually reaches customers.What you’ll learn:How “plant promotion” differs from plant hunting or influencing, and the criteria Michael uses to spot winners consumers and growers will love.Nine trend themes to watch at retail: efficiency for growers, wildlife value, flowering longevity, houseplant “royalty,” patio-shade lovers, and living-mulch groundcovers.Range curation ideas: conifers with personality, scented patio performers, Agastache vs lavender, and talking-point novelties that drive footfall.Retail experience as a growth engine: why adding gifts, books, socks, toys and seasonal promotions increases average basket around the bird seed staple.Supply-chain strategy for 2025–26: mitigating tariff volatility, leveraging UK–Canada trade, and what Canadian buyers need from UK/EU suppliers (clear logistics pathways, landed-cost clarity, proof-points on sustainability).Community building that converts: seniors’ days, guided walks, and family-friendly kits that turn casual visitors into loyal advocates.Michael Perry: http://mrplantgeek.substack.comPaul Oliver: http://urbannaturestore.caJoe Denham: https://www.gardenex.com⁠Discover more about our hosts:Kate Turner: ⁠www.gardenerguru.co.uk⁠Phil Wright: ⁠www.wrightobara.com

October 15, 2025Episode 41 hr 1 min

Stronger Together: YPHA’s championing of young talent and an industry that cares

This episode pays homage to the support systems that make horticulture special. Phil Wright and co-host Kate Turner talk with Nat Boynton and Meg Warren-Davis from YPHA about practical ways the community invests in young professionals: from bursaries and employer-backed time to train, to sponsors and partners who step in when it matters. Then Kaz Edwards (Heart of Eden) shares how the trade rallied when she was made redundant, opening doors within weeks and proving why this sector’s people-first culture is its superpower. In this episode:The power of backing young talent: YPHA’s Launch Success journey, bursary support, and a new winter skills programme with Barclays to teach real-world commercial skills (interviews, business plans, reading a balance sheet). Call-outs for operational allies to help scale the next cohort. Employers stepping up: How companies co-funded and released staff for nine training days, with Colegrave Seabrook Foundation support, because investing in people reduces churn and strengthens the whole sector. Community in action: From an initial “not our priority” response to industry champions stepping in: sponsorships, retailers, trainers and mentors who turned an idea into impact.When careers wobble, people catch you: Kaz describes the shock of redundancy and the flood of messages, referrals—even from competitors—that swiftly led to her role at Heart of Eden. Practical advice: be bold, ask for help, this industry will respond. Collaborating on peat-free confidence: Why manufacturers and retailers must partner on education and POS, and how schemes like Responsible Sourcing help the whole category move forward together. www.ypha.org.ukheartofeden.co.uk

October 8, 202550 min

Rooted in Progress: Durstons Big Rebrand, Woodlodge’s Sustainable Growth & Greenfingers’ Climb to New Heights

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, recorded live at Glee 2025, hosts Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with three guests shaping the garden sector’s next chapter: Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst from Durstons, and Kate Ebbens, Commercial Business Manager at Woodlodge and passionate Greenfingers Charity ambassador.From product innovation to purpose-driven missions, this episode captures what’s driving momentum across the garden industry today.Durstons share how a bold rebrand has transformed their image, while staying true to their heritage. And how they’re leading the charge in consistent, high-performing peat-free compost.Woodlodge’s Kate Ebbens talks about the company’s evolution, from sustainable recycled plastic pots to outdoor/indoor living trends, and why strong merchandising and design-led thinking are helping retailers stay relevant to modern consumers.Kate also shares exciting (and slightly nuts) news about her upcoming expedition to climb Mount Kilimanjaro in aid of Greenfingers, following her incredible year of running 5K every single day to raise funds for children’s hospice gardens last year.Whether you’re a supplier, retailer, or marketer in the garden sector, this episode is packed with insight on branding, product development, consumer education, and the people making a real difference behind the scenes.Listen in to discover:How Durstons turned a simple advertising brief into a transformative brand identityWhy education and collaboration are key to building trust in peat-free compostThe emerging retail trends shaping Woodlodge’s product and merchandising strategyHow industry passion and charity purpose can powerfully intersectThe Underground Podcast is produced by WrightObara, the creative marketing agency for home and garden brands.Durstons: http://durstongardenproducts.co.uk/Woodlodge: https://www.woodlodge.co.ukGreenfingers Kilimanjaro Trek: https://www.greenfingerscharity.org.uk/get-involved/climb-kilimanjaro-for-greenfingers