The Subrogation Support Network Podcast

Hosted by Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.

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Latest episode

Jun 2026

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EN-US

About the show

Join Attorney Ashton Kirsch as he hosts The Subrogation Support Network. From the world's finest subrogation resource center, this podcast will aim to provide subrogation professionals with effective strategies and insightful tips. You'll hear from various lawyers and experts discussing the latest legal updates, news and trends. 'RSSVERIFY'

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48 recent

June 9, 2026Episode 4748 min

From Leopard Skin Spandex to the Witness Stand: Construction Defect & Fire Claims with Pete Fowler

Before Pete Fowler was one of the country's leading construction defect experts, he was digging ditches to fund a rock and roll career. These days, he trades the stage for the witness stand, but the performance instincts are the same: stay composed, know your material, and never let a smart opponent rattle you.In this episode, Ashton sits down with Pete Fowler, founder of Pete Fowler Construction Consultants, a national firm with expertise spanning construction defects, fire investigation, slip-and-fall, and everything in between. Pete brings decades of forensic consulting experience and a refreshingly no-nonsense take on what it actually takes to move a construction defect case from a pile of documents to a recoverable claim.They cover:The "minimum viable product" approach to expert engagement and why it saves time and moneyWhat lawyers and adjusters are doing wrong when they hand files to expertsThe post-COVID construction defect surge and the specific claim types you should be watchingPlus, Pete shares why organized files are worth more than you think and what a cabinet falling on someone's foot has to do with the state of American construction.

May 12, 202627 min

The Billion Dollar Blind Spot: Toxic Tort Subrogation with Bradley Drew

Most work comp carriers are sitting on billions in unclaimed recoveries, and they don't even know it. In this episode, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Bradley Drew, Senior Managing Director of PACE Claims, to explore one of the most overlooked opportunities in subrogation: toxic tort claims, and specifically asbestos.Brad brings over 30 years of experience managing asbestos and bodily injury litigation, having helped process more than a million claims and $40 billion in settlements through PACE's centralized facility. He breaks down the current state of asbestos litigation, including how claims have shifted from heavy industrial workers to take-home exposures and home remodelers, and introduces emerging toxic torts like talc, benzene, and PFAS that are reshaping the landscape.The big takeaway? An estimated $2–4 billion in respiratory-related comp claims are paid out each year, with no effort made to seek recovery from asbestos trusts or the tort system.

February 27, 2026Episode 4642 min

Nuclear Negotiations: A CLM Conference Session Preview

Join host Ashton Kirsch for a preview of his upcoming CLM Conference presentation on negotiation strategies, featuring claims experts Amber Guenther from Alliant Insurance Services and Cortney Helfrich from Wilbur Group. This episode tackles why negotiation is the most undervalued skill in claims, applicable to everything from subrogation recoveries to defense settlements. The panel discusses practical strategies, including the 70/30 rule (listen more than you speak), how to keep emotions out of high-stakes conversations, and why building relationships beats transactional approaches every time.The conversation covers critical industry challenges like nuclear verdict fears driving poor settlement decisions, the importance of first impressions in negotiations, and how to train adjusters to handle difficult adversaries without getting rattled. Learn why every claim deserves individual attention, how to de-escalate heated negotiations, and why practicing negotiation daily (even when buying jeans) makes you better at closing deals.

February 10, 2026Episode 4540 min

When Algorithms Meet Adjusters: The AI Wake-Up Call

In this episode of the Subrogation Support Network, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Donnie Vaughn, a 15-year claims professional and author of The AI Advantage in Claims, to unpack what AI actually means for claims teams—and why it’s no longer optional to understand it. Donnie breaks down AI “101” in plain language, compares major tools (beyond just ChatGPT), and explains how claims professionals can use AI to accelerate everyday work like drafting demands, improving written communications, and tightening workflows without sacrificing accuracy.Ashton and Donnie also tackle the real-world risks: confidentiality, public-source tools, “hallucinated” outputs, and the growing challenge of deepfakes and fabricated evidence. They discuss how carriers, TPAs, and subrogation vendors can implement AI responsibly (think: internal systems, security, and human review), plus what individual adjusters can do immediately to stay competitive—starting with learning how to prompt, verify, and refine AI output. Donnie’s book, The AI Advantage in Claims, is available here: https://a.co/d/07louEZr

January 20, 2026Episode 4448 min

The Art of the Subro Deal: A Mediator’s Perspective

Ashton Kirsch sits down with mediator and negotiation professor Lee Mendelson for a practical, subrogation-focused conversation on what actually moves cases to resolution. Lee shares how he transitioned from running a long-time subrogation practice to mediating full-time nationwide, and why subject-matter expertise matters when selecting a mediator—especially in technical and insurance-driven disputes.They break down how strong negotiators prepare (and why most don’t), including BATNA/walkaway points, anchoring, objective criteria, and the difference between positional bargaining and interest-based problem solving. The discussion also tackles real-world mediation strategy: when early (pre-suit or early-suit) mediations make sense, what to include in mediation submissions (and what to keep confidential), how to handle difficult client/insured dynamics, and how Zoom mediations have changed participation and decision-maker access. The episode closes with actionable tips for adjusters and attorneys who want better outcomes, fewer stalemates, and a more disciplined approach to negotiation.

December 9, 2025Episode 4236 min

Leadership, Litigation & Life After Service: A Conversation with Jerrod Fussnecker

In this special crossover episode, Subrogation Support Network host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Jerrod Fussnecker, Army veteran, former JAG officer, military judge, and host of the Military Veterans in Law podcast, for a powerful conversation about service, career transitions, and the surprising ways military experience aligns with insurance and subrogation work.Ashton and Jerrod dive into Jerrod’s path from West Point to Afghanistan to the courtroom, and how the discipline, leadership, accountability, and investigative skills honed in the military translate directly into claims handling, litigation strategy, and recovery work. Together, they discuss what employers should know when recruiting veterans, how veterans can better “translate” their resumes for civilian legal roles, and why the insurance industry is uniquely positioned to benefit from the veteran talent pipeline.They also break down what subrogation really is, why it matters, and how veterans looking for mission, teamwork, and purpose can find all three in this corner of the legal world.

November 18, 2025Episode 4137 min

Inside the Subro Partnership Playbook

In this episode, Subrogation Support Network host Ashton Kirsch teams up with Subro Sense host Aaron Jacobs for a deep dive into something most people don’t realize happens behind the scenes: true collaboration between subrogation firms. Together, they unpack how attorneys from different organizations coordinate strategies on market-share claims, large-loss commercial property cases, MDLs, mass torts, and product failures. They also discuss the challenges of balancing different carrier risk appetites, choosing the right experts, and avoiding the pitfalls of low-cost vendors. This episode offers an honest look at how cooperation, not competition, is driving better recoveries and shaping the future of the industry.

November 4, 2025Episode 4048 min

Claims, Cliff Dives, and Comedy: A Conversation with Simon Keshishian

This episode is packed with energy (literally). Your host, Ashton Kirsch, sits down with Simon Keshishian, Head of Risk Management for Red Bull North America, for a high-octane conversation about what it really means to manage risk when your company is known for pushing limits. From cliff-diving events to contract clauses, Simon shares how Red Bull balances bold ideas with calculated controls, all while keeping humor (and a few dad jokes) at the center of his leadership style.They dive into the evolution of risk management, the growing importance of subrogation, and how today’s carriers can recover smarter, not harder. It’s a rare glimpse into one of the world’s most recognizable brands' approach to risk, resilience, and recovery. **Red Bull is a registered trademark of Red Bull GmbH. This podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Red Bull**

October 14, 2025Episode 3938 min

Building a Career That Lasts: Lessons from Caryn Siebert

In this episode of the Subrogation Support Network, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Caryn Siebert, Vice President of Carrier Engagement at Gallagher Bassett, for a candid conversation about leadership, claims innovation, and the future of subrogation. Caryn shares how her unconventional path, from aspiring veterinarian to attorney to insurance executive, shaped her understanding of people, process, and purpose in the industry. Together, Ashton and Caryn unpack the value of centralized subrogation, the importance of accurate metrics in the C-suite, and how data-driven strategy can transform carrier performance. Beyond the technical insights, Caryn offers practical and inspiring advice for rising professionals on mentorship, career growth, and stepping outside your comfort zone. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about claims, subrogation, and building a meaningful career in insurance.

September 23, 2025Episode 3852 min

Inside the Subro Mindset: Two Podcasts, One Deep Dive

Two of the subrogation world’s leading voices join forces in this special crossover between the Subrogation Support Network and Claims Hunter podcasts. Host Ashton Kirsch of Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C. and guest co-host Chris Tidball of SubroIQ dig deep into what really drives successful recoveries—spotting hidden opportunities, investigating fast, and negotiating smart.From missed recoveries worth millions to the evolving role of AI, and from frontline adjuster training to future trends like autonomous-vehicle claims, Ashton and Chris share real-world stories, lessons learned, and practical strategies you can put to work today.This crossover isn’t just a conversation—it’s a call to action. Use the strategies shared here to sharpen your claims process, spot overlooked recoveries, and stay ahead of shifting industry trends.