The Kirkpatrick Podcast

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Aug 2026

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Welcome to the Kirkpatrick podcast, where we bridge traditions and trends in learning and performance evaluation. Whether you're a seasoned learning professional or just starting out, join us as we dive into the Kirkpatrick Model like never before. Through stories and insights, we're fusing time-honored methods with cutting-edge innovations to help you navigate the ever-evolving world of learning and performance evaluation. Subscribe now to stay up-to-date with our weekly episodes and gain practical strategies to enhance your training programs. Don't miss out—be part of the learning revolution!

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September 8, 2026Episode 317 min

Building an Evidence Case for Your Training Program

Would you trust a verdict built on a single witness? In the fifth episode of her series on the Kirkpatrick Model, Vanessa Milara Alzate tackles validity — whether an evaluation actually measures what it claims to — and why relying on one data source, usually a survey, quietly misleads more organizations than any other evaluation mistake. Using a retail customer service program that scored 98% satisfaction while complaints and returns never moved, Vanessa breaks down the four most common validity threats and introduces triangulation: strengthening a finding by pulling from multiple data sources, methods, perspectives, and time frames. She walks through all four types — data, methodological, stakeholder, and temporal triangulation — and shows how they map directly onto the Kirkpatrick Model's four levels to build what she calls blended evaluation. Takeaways: why activity (satisfaction, completion, attendance) is not the same as impact; the four most common validity threats; the four types of triangulation and how to use them together; a financial services case study that turned a stalled leadership program into credible, trusted results; and one reflection question to pressure-test your own evaluation data. This episode continues a seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model — a good week to pick up Building a Culture of Evaluation ahead of Vanessa's live Book Club discussion this fall. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now 👉 Join the Book Club Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

August 31, 2026Episode 306 min

Transfer Doesn't Happen by Accident. It Happens by Design.

Why do people leave training energized to change, and then slide right back into old habits within weeks? In the fourth episode of her seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model, Vanessa Milara Alzate tackles transfer — the bridge between Level 2, learning, and Level 3, behavior, and the point where most training investment quietly succeeds or fails. Drawing on research from The Insitute for Transfer Effectiveness , Vanessa breaks down twelve specific levers that determine whether learning actually gets applied on the job, grouped into four areas: the trainee, the training design, the organization, and the manager. Her core argument: transfer doesn't happen by accident. It has to be designed into the system, lever by lever, or training ends up blamed for a failure the environment never let it avoid. Takeaways: why transfer is the make-or-break moment between learning and performance; the twelve levers and the four areas they live in; why a single 15-minute conversation between a manager and a participant before training measurably increases transfer; a real example of transfer engineered into a sales training rollout; and one reflection question to diagnose exactly where transfer is breaking down in your own programs. This episode continues a seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model — a good week to pick up Building a Culture of Evaluation ahead of Vanessa's live Book Club discussion this fall. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now 👉 Join the Book Club Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

August 24, 2026Episode 299 min

The Brain Doesn't Erase Old Behavior — It Competes With It

Why does training so often produce people who understood the material but still didn't change what they do? In the third episode of her seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model, Vanessa Milara Alzate turns to the brain science behind Level 3, behavior, and argues that behavior change has never been a learning problem — it's a habit problem. Drawing on cognitive science, neuroscience, and behavioral science, Vanessa explains why the brain can't simply unlearn an old behavior — it can only build a new neural pathway strong enough to compete with the old one, a process called neuroplasticity. She walks through the roles dopamine, mirror neurons, and loss aversion play in whether a new behavior sticks, and introduces the intention-action gap: the space between wanting to change and actually doing it, usually caused by friction rather than a lack of willpower. Takeaways: why behavior change is a habit problem, not a knowledge problem; what neuroplasticity means for how L&D should design initiatives; the formula practice plus reinforcement equals habit; why emotional engagement and social modeling matter as much as content; and one reflection question to run on any behavior you're trying to help people adopt. This episode continues a seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model — a good week to pick up Building a Culture of Evaluation ahead of Vanessa's live Book Club discussion this fall. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now 👉 Join the Book Club Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

August 17, 2026Episode 237 min

The Training Trap

Why does "we need training" show up as the answer to almost every organizational problem — even when the real issue is a broken process, an unclear policy, or a leadership decision nobody wants to name? In the second episode of her seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model, Vanessa Milara Alzate names what she calls the training trap: the reflex to reach for the most familiar solution instead of diagnosing what's actually broken. Using the Greek myth of Sisyphus and a real-world CRM rollout that failed for reasons no training could fix, Vanessa walks through the five whys — a simple root-cause tool that gets past the obvious answer to the actual one — and introduces the performance environment: the systems, resources, culture, and support that determine whether any solution, training included, has a chance to work. Takeaways: why the most familiar solution isn't always the right one, how to run the five whys on a real problem, what the performance environment is and why it has to be assessed before you design anything, the questions to ask before recommending training, and why triangulating stakeholder interviews, surveys, and existing data beats guessing every time. This episode continues a seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model — and it's a good week to pick up Building a Culture of Evaluation and get ready for Vanessa's live Book Club discussion this fall. Learn more at kirkpatrickpartners.com . Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now 👉 Join the Book Club Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

August 10, 2026Episode 2712 min

The Money for Training Is Leaving and Nobody's Watching It Go

How much does an organization spend on training every year — and how much of that spend actually changes performance? In the first episode of a new series walking through the full Kirkpatrick Model, Vanessa Milara Alzate makes the financial case for evaluation: the real cost of turnover, under-training, and the mistakes that happen when people are technically trained but nothing changes on the job. She traces the model back to its origins in the 1950s with Dr. Don Kirkpatrick, through its evolution under Dr. Jim Kirkpatrick and Wendy Kayser Kirkpatrick, to where it stands today — not a training checklist, but a system for connecting effort to results across any initiative, not just training. Takeaways: why most organizations measure learning instead of performance, the real financial cost of turnover and under-training, the origin of the four levels — reaction, learning, behavior, results — why level three is where the real work happens, and the one question every leader should ask before reaching for training as the fix. This episode kicks off a seven-part series on the Kirkpatrick Model — and back-to-school season is a good excuse to pick up Building a Culture of Evaluation and join Vanessa's live Book Club discussion this fall. Learn more at kirkpatrickpartners.com . Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

August 4, 2026Episode 2642 min

Stop Funding Coaching You Can't Prove Works

Coaching is having a moment — the market has grown more than 60% since 2019, and a third of Fortune 500 companies are now paying for executive coaching. But when most leaders are asked whether their coaching program is actually working, the confidence disappears fast. In this episode, Vanessa Milara Alzate sits down with Jordan Rawlinson, Learning and Performance Manager at Kirkpatrick Partners and author of the coaching chapter in Building a Culture of Evaluation: The New Kirkpatrick Model for Performance and Innovation, to make the case that coaching is measurable — it just requires a different lens than training. Jordan explains why the coach-coachee relationship, known as the working alliance, predicts coaching success more than any technique or model. They dig into why Level 1 Reaction, usually treated as the least important level in training, may be the most foundational level in coaching. And they talk candidly about why coaching should never be mandatory, what has to be true in a culture before coaching can take root, and how to move coaching from a nice-to-have perk to a funded, evaluated strategy. Takeaways: what the working alliance is and why it predicts outcomes, how to build measurement into a self-directed process, why voluntold coaching backfires, and where to start if you want to evaluate your own coaching program. Learn more and get the book at kirkpatrickpartners.com Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

July 27, 2026Episode 2532 min

The Misconception That Wastes the Most Time in Learning and Development with Wendy Kayser Kirkpatrick

Few people have watched the Kirkpatrick Model travel across as many organizations as Wendy Kayser Kirkpatrick. Founder of Kirkpatrick Partners, steward of the model for 16 years, and the author of the foreword to Vanessa's new book, Wendy joins the show to talk about what the model was always meant to be — and the misreadings that still hold teams back. Vanessa and Wendy dig into the belief that quietly wastes the most time and money: treating the four levels as sequential and equal, perfecting reaction sheets while the levels that matter wait years for attention. Wendy traces the model back to Don Kirkpatrick's 1950s dissertation, explains why Level 3 has an undeserved reputation for being "hard," and shares who she's seen do evaluation genuinely well. Along the way she reframes the whole discipline in a single line Vanessa promises to steal: training can only prepare people — the results come from partnership across the business. In This Episode ● Why "sequential and equal" is the costliest misconception in L&D. ● The real reason organizations default to Levels 1 and 2 — and how to move. ● Why Level 3 isn't hard; it's where L&D earns its seat at the table. ● What the U.S. military and fast-moving corporations each get right. ● "Training can only prepare" — a phrase to use with your stakeholders. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model and upcoming programs at kirkpatrickpartners.com . Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

July 13, 2026Episode 2419 min

What the World Cup Taught Me About Return on Expectations

Vanessa Milara Alzate is watching the World Cup a little differently this year — and she wants you to, too. In this solo episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa uses three very different national teams to make a case she returns to constantly: the scoreboard is not the whole story, and treating it like one will cost you. She starts with Spain, whose decades-long bet on leading indicators — possession, passing accuracy, territorial control — over any single result explains a run of championships that looked, from the outside, like a hot streak. Then the US team, whose best-ever group stage and a puzzling loss to Turkey show why a single data point stripped of context will always mislead you. Finally, Cape Verde, the smallest nation ever to reach the knockout round, becomes the clearest example yet of Return on Expectations: success measured against your own stakeholders' bar, not someone else's. Takeaways: ● Lagging indicators (goals, completion rates, satisfaction scores) tell you what already happened — leading indicators tell you while there's still time to act. ● You can't measure the impact of an isolated training event any more than you can judge a program from one match. ● Success has to be defined by your actual stakeholders, not a borrowed universal benchmark. Before your next report goes out, ask which scorecard you're really being measured against. Head to kirkpatrickpartners.com to keep the conversation going. Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

July 6, 2026Episode 2357 min

Why the Kirkpatrick Model Isn't an L&D Tool — It's a Business Model with Jawad Ahmed

In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa sits down in person with Jawad Ahmed, a longtime Kirkpatrick Partners affiliate and director at C2C in India, for a candid conversation about how the Kirkpatrick Model travels — and sometimes gets lost — across borders. Jawad shares what changed for him the moment he was certified in 2015, the myth he hears most often from HR and L&D professionals, and why so many organizations still stall out before reaching Level 3 and Level 4 of the Kirkpatrick Four Levels®. The conversation turns to India's fast-growing learning and development market, the rise of Global Capability Centers, and where artificial intelligence is — and isn't — making a dent in evaluation today. Vanessa and Jawad also dig into what it takes to move a leader from a check-the-box mindset to real investment in outcomes, and why that shift starts with understanding what's actually on a leader's dashboard. Takeaways: • The Kirkpatrick Model is a business model, not just an L&D framework. • Most L&D professionals believe they know the model — most haven't seen it applied. • AI has transformed Levels 1 and 2 of evaluation. Levels 3 and 4 still require a human-led system. • Real partnership with the business starts before a training program ever begins. Learn more about building a culture of evaluation at kirkpatrickpartners.com . Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

June 29, 2026Episode 2259 min

Valid vs. Available: The Data Trap Most Orgs Fall Into

Most organizations are confident they have data. Loads of it. But in this episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa sits down with psychometrician and data-analytics professor Dr. Anna Lissitz to ask the uncomfortable question: is it the right data — and is it telling you the truth? Anna, who wrote the triangulation chapter in Building a Culture of Evaluation, makes the case that a single metric — measured one way, at one moment, from one perspective — simply cannot tell the whole story. Worse, the data leaders feel most confident about is often the data that just confirms what they already believed. Together they unpack why completion rates and satisfaction scores feel safe but hide poor performance, what separates valid data from merely available data, and how triangulation turns shaky numbers into decisions you can stand behind. In this episode: • Why "we have lots of data" and "we have good data" are not the same thing • The difference between valid data and available data — and why it matters • How triangulation protects you from false confidence and confirmation bias • Why a low survey response rate is itself a finding, not a dead end • Where AI helps with evaluation — and where it can quietly mislead you Ready to stop studying evaluation and start building it? The Kirkpatrick® Builder Certification is a hands-on, live-online program where you design a complete set of evaluation instruments across all four levels — for your own initiative. The founding cohort runs Sept 28–Oct 2, 2026. Learn more and register at kirkpatrickpartners.com . Enterprise Performance Intelligence (EPI) Maturity Assessment Think your organization is measuring impact? Most aren't. The EPI Maturity Assessment helps you quickly identify where you stand—and what's needed to better connect learning to performance and results. 👉 Take the assessment and get clarity on your next step. Building a Culture of Evaluation Order the book behind the Culture of Evaluation framework and updated Kirkpatrick Model. The book comes with a Companion Guide to help support you on the journey. 👉 Order the book now Kirkpatrick Learning and Performance Center of Excellence Certification builds capability. Accreditation builds systems. The Kirkpatrick Certified Organization accreditation recognizes organizations that have embedded the Kirkpatrick Four Levels® into how they actually operate — through governance, SOPs, feedback loops, and cross-functional accountability. If your evaluation capability would disappear when a key person leaves, this is the credential designed to fix that. Founding Organization status is now open — first year of annual maintenance waived for inaugural cohort members. 👉 Learn more and apply Not ready to apply yet because you need to build the systems? Grab the SOPs. We're building a library of Kirkpatrick-standard SOPs — governance frameworks, evaluation procedures for all four levels, planning templates, and implementation guides — so you can build your infrastructure before you apply. 👉 Learn more Kirkpatrick Collective If you're ready to move beyond activity and start driving real performance, the Kirkpatrick Collective brings together leaders focused on applying evaluation in the real world. Get practical tools, shared insight, and the structure to make better, evidence-based decisions. 👉 Join the Collective and start building evaluation as a capability—not just an activity. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel