The Inner Game of Change

Hosted by Ali Juma

Business Science

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Episodes

161

Latest episode

Oct 2026

Language

EN-AU

About the show

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change podcast, where we dive deep into the complexities of managing organisational change. Tailored for leaders, change practitioners, and anyone driving transformation, our episodes explore key topics like leadership, communication, change capability, and process design. Expert guests share practical strategies and insights to help you navigate and lead successful change initiatives. Listen in to learn fresh ideas and perspectives from a variety of industries, and gain the tools and knowledge you need to lead transformation with confidence. Explore our episodes at www.theinnergameofchange.com.au , Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Youtube or anywhere you listen to your podcasts.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

October 28, 2026Episode 11747 min

E117 - From Tin Man to Octopus: The Leadership Shift - Podcast With Jana Werner

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. What happens when artificial intelligence transforms how quickly we work, create and make decisions, but the organisations around us are still operating with yesterday's thinking? And that raises an interesting question. Are we building more capable organisations, or simply making old ones move faster? My guest today is Jana Werner , global executive advisor at Amazon Web Services and coauthor, alongside Phil Le Brun, of The Octopus Organization . Jana offers a fascinating alternative to the traditional organisation. One inspired by the octopus, a remarkable creature capable of sensing, learning and acting through its eight arms, while remaining connected to a central brain. In our conversation, we explore what it takes to distribute intelligence without losing alignment, why curiosity matters more than certainty, and why efficiency gains do not necessarily translate into organisational value. We also challenge what leadership and change management need to become in a world where technology is advancing faster than the organisations adopting it. And perhaps the biggest tension of all. Organisations want people to think for themselves, yet we have built systems that make them ask for permission. I'm Ali Juma , and this is The Inner Game of Change . About Jana is a global advisor in Amazon Web Services, advising C-level executives and global enterprises in transformation, digital innovation, change management and ways of working at the intersection of business and technology. She helps Fortune 500 companies accelerate time to business value, and create highly responsive organizations that can keep delighting customers and gain a critical edge in their marketplace. Jana has multinational multi-sector experience, from growing a start-up acquired by Hewlett-Packard, to leading culture, organisational, and digital change in large scale multinational organisations across various sectors. She holds a PhD in management, is a global thought leader and speaker on transformation and innovation. She is currently writing a book to be published by Harvard Business Review on how to achieve sustained growth and advance organizations. She is actively engaged in a community of thought leaders and executive pioneers from Harvard, NASA, Nike, Slack, and many more. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

October 21, 202614 min

Stories Of Change - The Bike Was A Dutch Decision

Amsterdam is famous for its bicycles. But the city we recognise today was not always this way. In the 1970s, Dutch streets were increasingly dominated by cars, and hundreds of children were dying on the roads each year. A grieving father, a growing protest movement and an unexpected oil crisis helped challenge what people had come to accept as normal. In The Bike Was a Dutch Decision , the tenth and final episode of this first Stories of Change series, I explore how the Dutch reclaimed their streets, the resistance they encountered, and why lasting change often requires redesigning the system rather than simply asking people to behave differently. A story about choices, unintended consequences and how yesterday's radical ideas become today's ordinary life. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

October 15, 2026Episode 1161 hr 2 min

E116 - The Work Changes. Then What? - Podcast With Lauren Ryder

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. What happens when artificial intelligence makes work faster, but the organisation around it stays the same? In this episode, I speak with transformation leader and Engage founder Lauren Ryder , about rethinking productivity in the age of artificial intelligence. We explore why saved time does not automatically become organisational value, how artificial intelligence changes the nature of work, what happens when routine tasks disappear, and why capability, judgement, performance measures and career pathways may all need to be reconsidered. We also examine productive friction, human only thinking, leadership accountability and the second and third order consequences of redesigning work around artificial intelligence. At the centre of the conversation is a deceptively simple question: What does productivity actually mean when the cost and effort of producing work changes dramatically? About Lauren I’ve spent more than 20 years inside major organisations, leading transformation and seeing first-hand what separates the leaders who can move people through complexity from those who simply manage it. Because when a transformation doesn't land, it's usually because of leadership. As CEO of Leading Edge Global, I work with CEOs, Boards and Executive Teams navigating significant change, from AI and digital transformation to operating model shifts and large-scale programs. My sweet spot is the messy bit between strategy and execution, where decisions need to be made, people need to come with you, and a beautifully designed PowerPoint is no longer going to save anyone. I’ve also built Engage, a leadership development and community platform focused on developing the human capabilities leaders need for the future of work: judgement, adaptability, influence, emotional intelligence and strategic thinking. I write regularly for Forbes Australia, and Women's Agenda, and have been featured in the AFR, SMH and The Age, and host the Leading Change podcast. I’ve also been recognised as one of the Top 100 Women in Data Centres globally and as Business Leader of the Year. I’m fascinated by the gap between the leadership organisations say they want and what actually happens when the pressure is on. That’s the gap I want to close. www.leading-edge.global Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

October 10, 202614 min

Stories Of Change - The Day Japan Changed Time

In 1872, Japan changed its calendar and its clocks with just twenty three days’ notice. Almost fifty years later, Tokyo was still ringing bells to remind people what the new time meant. This is a story about mandate, resistance, old and new systems living side by side, and the long distance between introducing a change and making it normal. And there may be something in it for how we are approaching artificial intelligence today. When Japan Changed Time When Japan Changed Time. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

October 4, 2026Episode 11528 min

E115 - What Must We Keep Human? - Podcast With Dr David Rock - Part Two

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. My guest today is Dr David Rock , cofounder and chief executive of the NeuroLeadership Institute , originator of the SCARF model and author of our Brain at Work . This is Part Two of my conversation with Dr David Rock. In Part One, we explored what continuous change does to the brain and why artificial intelligence can activate our sense of threat when many organisations are already nearing the limits of their capacity for change. Part Two is anchored by one question: Who is doing the thinking? As artificial intelligence becomes part of how we write, decide and relate to one another, which capabilities are we prepared to lose, and which must we protect? David challenges the advice that everyone should use artificial intelligence as much as possible. We discuss how it can increase confidence while weakening judgement, why feedback from a machine can feel easier to receive, and what happens when leaders use agreeable systems to navigate difficult human relationships. The distinction is simple: artificial intelligence should help us think more deeply, not think less. Here is Part Two of my conversation with Dr David Rock. About David I coined the term 'Neuroleadership', and am the co-founder and CEO of the Neuroleadership Institute (NLI). NLI makes organizations better for humans through science. It has partnered with 2/3 of the Fortune 100, helped over 20 million people perform better by understanding the brain, and started whole movements in the workplace. Our work was central to Microsoft's culture transformation. I am the author of 4 books including Quiet Leadership, the business best seller Your Brain at Work and published dozens of papers on the neuroscience of leadership. I have a new book coming out November 2026, called Good with Humans. Pre order: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Humans-Neuroscience-Makes-Ticks/dp/0063463962/ I own a small retreat center in upstate NY. Ideal for small corporate retreats, with 11 separate rooms, especially great for people with an interest in wellness and nature. Complete with a hyperbaric chamber, sauna, 2 x jacuzzi's and private walking trails. See https://www.roundhousefarms.org/ In addition, I support new authors through the Round House Literary Agency, see https://rhliterary.com/ where I leverage my understanding of the human brain to help architect ideas to have impact, and authors to do their best work. I am also an impact investor, mentor and coach to several neuro-tech, health-tech and wellness businesses, through my Round House Incubator. As a registered broker dealer agent, I also raise capital for early stage projects in that space. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

September 24, 202613 min

Stories Of Change - Why The World Looks Wrong

In 1569, Gerard Mercator made a map for sailors. The sailors largely ignored it for almost two hundred years. Then it quietly became the picture of the world that generations of us grew up with, without anyone ever deciding it should. In September 2026, 164 countries at the United Nations voted to challenge it. In this episode of Stories of Change, I explore why the accurate map is the one that feels wrong, and what Mercator's slow adoption can teach anyone trying to make AI work in their organisation. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

September 16, 2026Episode 11427 min

E114 - What Must We Keep Human? - Podcast With Dr David Rock - Part One

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. My guest today is Dr David Rock , cofounder and chief executive of the NeuroLeadership Institute , originator of the SCARF model and author of our Brain at Work . His forthcoming book, Good With Humans , brings together more than twenty five years of research into what motivates us, what puts us into a state of threat and how this shapes the way we interact with one another. In this conversation, we explore what change does to the brain, why even a perceived threat can affect our ability to think, how a leader’s emotional state can spread through a team, and whether continuous change is beginning to test the limits of our cognitive capacity. This is part one of my conversation with Dr David Rock. Enjoy. About David I coined the term 'Neuroleadership', and am the co-founder and CEO of the Neuroleadership Institute (NLI). NLI makes organizations better for humans through science. It has partnered with 2/3 of the Fortune 100, helped over 20 million people perform better by understanding the brain, and started whole movements in the workplace. Our work was central to Microsoft's culture transformation. I am the author of 4 books including Quiet Leadership, the business best seller Your Brain at Work and published dozens of papers on the neuroscience of leadership. I have a new book coming out November 2026, called Good with Humans. Pre order: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Humans-Neuroscience-Makes-Ticks/dp/0063463962/ I own a small retreat center in upstate NY. Ideal for small corporate retreats, with 11 separate rooms, especially great for people with an interest in wellness and nature. Complete with a hyperbaric chamber, sauna, 2 x jacuzzi's and private walking trails. See https://www.roundhousefarms.org/ In addition, I support new authors through the Round House Literary Agency, see https://rhliterary.com/ where I leverage my understanding of the human brain to help architect ideas to have impact, and authors to do their best work. I am also an impact investor, mentor and coach to several neuro-tech, health-tech and wellness businesses, through my Round House Incubator. As a registered broker dealer agent, I also raise capital for early stage projects in that space. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

September 10, 202615 min

Stories Of Change - The Job the Customer Didn’t Know They’d Taken

In 1916, Clarence Saunders asked shoppers to do something that now feels completely normal: pick their own groceries. But self-service did more than change shopping. It shifted work from clerk to customer, redesigned the store around that new behaviour, and changed what happened to the job on the other side of the counter. A story about autonomy, work, design — and how change eventually becomes so normal we stop seeing it. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

August 27, 202615 min

Stories Of Change - When A Country had To Learn Its Alphabet Again!

What happens when an entire country changes the alphabet its people use to read, write and work? In 1928, Türkiye made the switch quickly. The harder part came afterwards: teaching adults, changing newspapers and workplaces, rebuilding fluency, and helping experienced people become learners again. A story about adoption, identity, redesign...and why the human transition always moves at a different speed. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn

August 21, 2026Episode 11357 min

E113 - Saying Less. Meaning More. - Podcast with Grace Edwards

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. Today I am joined by Grace Edwards , a journalist, communication expert and former United Nations professional who has spent much of her career helping people make complex ideas simple, clear and meaningful. Our conversation starts with a deceptively simple question. In an age where artificial intelligence can generate polished communication in seconds, what actually makes communication work? Is it the words? The context? The person delivering them? Or the judgement behind what we choose to say, and what we choose to leave out? Grace and I explore simplicity, journalism, change communication, reading the room, human judgement and what happens when artificial intelligence enters the communication process. And, in a small experiment, we actually invite ChatGPT into the conversation and ask it directly what it cannot bring to the table. But underneath all of this sits a bigger question about the purpose of communication itself. What are we really trying to create when we communicate well? Grace offers a perspective towards the end of our conversation that brings many of these threads together. This is a conversation about saying less, understanding more and why the human element in communication may matter more than ever. I am grateful to have Grace chatting with me today. About I am a communications consultant and public speaking coach with more than a decade of experience. Working with United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and others, I turn complex ideas into messages that drive action in speeches, op-Ed’s, interview talking points, press releases, videos, corporate reports and more. I specialize in transforming policy and climate challenges into compelling content that moves decisions and global audiences. My ability to communicate in a clear and compelling way is enhanced by my early experience as a journalist, contributing previously to CNBC, Associated Press (AP), Reuters, BBC News and others. With the surge in LLMs, I have also created my own customised GPT (the Speech Atelier), to help clients to use A.I. responsibly. This is supported by detailed knowledge documents I wrote from my experiences to ensure accuracy, fact-checking, relevance (reads related news), humanised language and storytelling tricks applied from Caesar to Churchill and Obama. I hold a double bachelors degree in Law (LLB) / International Studies (University of Sydney) and am a native English speaker, advanced in Mandarin as well as intermediate Serbian. Grace’s profile linkedin.com/in/grace-brown-4b289828 Website instagram.com (Blog) Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn