Welcome to The Inner Game of Change podcast, where we dive deep into the complexities of managing organisational change. Tailored for leaders, change practitioners, and anyone driving transformation, our episodes explore key topics like leadership, communication, change capability, and process design. Expert guests share practical strategies and insights to help you navigate and lead successful change initiatives. Listen in to learn fresh ideas and perspectives from a variety of industries, and gain the tools and knowledge you need to lead transformation with confidence. Explore our episodes at www.theinnergameofchange.com.au , Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Youtube or anywhere you listen to your podcasts.
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August 12, 202611 min
Stories Of Change - Why People Fought the Seat Belt
What happens when people believe in a change but still refuse to adopt it? In this episode of Stories of Change , we explore the surprising history of the seat belt—from invention and public resistance to legislation, enforcement and habit—and what it can teach us about behaviour change, AI adoption and the gap between knowing and doing. The invention mattered. The click changed everything. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
August 8, 2026Episode 11247 min
E112 - The Coaching Kata: Learning Our Way Forward - Podcast With Tracy Defoe
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. What happens to human learning when answers are suddenly abundant and change keeps accelerating? In this episode of The Inner Game of Change , I welcome back Tracy Defoe , Kata coach and adult learning expert, to explore the Coaching Kata and its growing relevance in the age of artificial intelligence. We explore a simple idea: when we cannot know exactly where change will take us, we need to learn our way forward. Tracy shares how the Coaching Kata helps people navigate uncertainty through small experiments, reflection and deliberate learning. We discuss productive struggle, psychological safety, the temptation to jump to solutions, and the importance of human judgement. We also ask whether artificial intelligence is helping us become better thinkers, or simply faster answer seekers, and where it can genuinely strengthen coaching and learning. A conversation about change without certainty, coaching without giving people the answers, and learning our way forward. About Tracy Aims to make you smarter about learning. Adult Education professional specializing in learning at work. Interested in culture change, supporting peer-leadership, informal learning, multiple literacies and communication in diverse settings. Experienced in designing and implementing innovative learning at work programs. Humble Lean Practitioner interested in combining my interests in Lean with Adult Learning and Culture Change. Student of the Kata, Coach and Learner. Improvement and Coaching Kata learner and coach. Volunteer Host of the Cascadia Kata Dojo Community Call - a 30 minute weekly zoom meeting for Kata Coaches From British Columbia, Washington, Oregon and California. Specialties: Customized solutions, embedding lean or essential skills in content training, facilitation of improvements or supporting leaders in improving their facilitation, communicating with the workforce, re-framing change as learning challenge, training design and delivery, implementation and evaluation. Facilitating meetings and retreats for clients, strategic planning, realizing a mission and vision to a Challenge, and a daily improvement plan. Plain Language and Clear Design. Contact Tracy Tracy’s profile linkedin.com/in/tracydefoe Website thelearningfactor.ca (Company) Email td@thelearningfactor.ca Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
July 30, 202610 min
Stories Of Change - How The World's Most Famous Map Was Wrong!
In 1931, Harry Beck looked at London’s increasingly complicated Underground map and asked a different question. What if passengers did not need a more accurate picture of the city, but a clearer way to move through it? His design distorted geography, simplified distance and was initially rejected. Yet it became one of the most influential maps ever created. In this episode of Stories of Change , I explore what Beck’s story can teach us about simplicity, confidence, human-centred design and helping people navigate change and AI adoption. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
July 26, 2026Episode 11153 min
E111 - The Relationships That Carry Change - Podcast With Sarah Glenister
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. In this warm and deeply human conversation, I speak with change practitioner and Australian Change Days convenor Sarah Glenister about the relationships that quietly shape how change is experienced. We explore trust, uncertainty, informal influence, the limits of plans and timelines, and why the real work of change often happens through conversations that cannot be easily measured. We also consider whether strong relationships can turn uncertainty from anxiety into curiosity, and what human connection may mean as artificial intelligence becomes more embedded in our working lives. I am grateful that Sarah is chatting with me today. About Sarah 🔔 Over 15 years in senior roles - Director of Change Management, Director of Workforce, Director Corporate Services, Area Director Mental Health Services, Director of Financial Transition. Now working as an independent consultant, Founder and Director Change that matters changethatmatters.com.au 🔔 Trained as an Organisational Psychologist, I bring those Behavioural Science skills to address the most complex of situations (and the simple ones), find out more at sarahglenister.com 🔔 Community builder - Convenor and Founder of Australasian Change Days, annual event for people wanting to Change the World! australasianchangedays.com 🔔 Genealogy and DNA geek, offering assistance in interpreting your results and researching your family tree, DM me here. Expertise and knowledge: 💡 Project management and change management of large complex projects 💡 Workforce and HR strategy and organisational development 💡 Team building and communication 💡 Training in Change Management for executive and managers. 💡 Data analysis and interpretation 💡 Facilitation of off-site or on-site strategy days 💡 Building online communities Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
July 8, 20266 min
Stories Of Change - The Box That Changed The World
What if one of the most important inventions of the last hundred years was a steel box? Not the internet. Not the smartphone. A box. In this episode of Stories of Change , Ali explores how a small experiment in 1956 transformed global trade and what it can teach us about AI, innovation and the hidden side of change. Because sometimes the biggest changes do not arrive looking like revolutions. Sometimes they arrive looking ordinary. And we only understand their significance years later. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
July 4, 2026Episode 11058 min
E110 - When AI Enters The Systems Room - Podcast with Joan Lurie
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. Four years ago, Joan Lurie joined me on this podcast to explore systems, roles, mental maps and how organisations adapt in times of uncertainty. Today, we return to that conversation through a different lens: artificial intelligence. But this is not a conversation about tools, prompts or technology. It is a conversation about what AI is revealing. The assumptions it is challenging. The roles it is reshaping. And what happens when AI enters the systems room. Joan is the founder of Orgonomics and one of Australia's leading systems thinkers. She has a unique way of helping leaders see organisations not simply as structures or collections of people, but as living systems of relationships, roles and patterns. I have learned a great deal from Joan's work over the years, and every conversation with her challenges me to see organisations differently. Together we explore leadership, adaptation, complexity and what organisations may need to rethink as AI becomes part of the fabric of work. I hope you enjoy this thoughtful and timely conversation with Joan Lurie. About I am the CEO of Orgonomics, a company I founded in 2008 to assist leaders and organisations to adapt, thrive and function at their growing edge. My work integrates strategy, systems thinking, complexity, narrative, ecology and developmental theory. Over 30 years I’ve worked with boards, executives and leadership teams as a coach and consultant helping them achieve turnaround results - together emerging new cultures, operating models and different organisational systems, whilst simultaneously building their adaptive capacity. Through this practice and experimentation, I have developed Orgonomics™ - a proprietary methodology which provides a ‘map’ for leaders to go beyond reductionism to navigate the complexity we are in. Referred to as ground-breaking, Orgonomics enables leaders to fundamentally shift their ways of seeing and knowing to be more systemic; reframe their assumptions and mental maps and repattern their organisational systems for new ways of relating and operating, to achieve higher order functioning and performance. As a developmental psychologist and systemic change consultant my core purpose is to ensure that leaders and organisations are able to continuously develop, learn and grow to be fit for and thrive in our complex world. Developing a systems lens, relational intelligence and comfort with not ‘knowing’ used to be a ‘nice to have', but it has now become our individual and organisational imperative; we have to accelerate it for the good of our whole ecology. Contact Joan’s profile linkedin.com/in/joan-lurie-73bb0215 Website orgonomics.com (Company) Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
June 24, 202612 min
Stories Of Change - Why Lecturers Did Not Disappear
Why didn't lecturers disappear? For more than 700 years, the role of the lecturer has survived books, the printing press, libraries, the internet, and now artificial intelligence. In this episode of Stories of Change , we explore a fascinating question. How did one of the world's oldest professions keep evolving while the technologies around it kept changing? The story is not really about lecturers. It is about what happens when the thing that once made us valuable becomes easy to access. Perhaps the question is not whether AI will replace us. Perhaps the better question is: what becomes valuable next? Grab a coffee and join me for this 10 minute story. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
June 19, 2026Episode 10957 min
E109 - Co-Creation and The Ownership Effect - Podcast With Terri Block & Susan Bartlett
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change . where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. Why is it that people can sit in a room, agree with a strategy, support a transformation and nod enthusiastically at a presentation, only to struggle when the change finally arrives? Today's guests suggest the answer may lie in a concept called psychological distance. Terri Block and Susan Bartlett from Workomics spend their days helping organisations bring customers, stakeholders and teams together to solve complex problems through co creation. In this conversation we explore Construal Level Theory, why humans think differently about things that feel distant versus things that feel immediate, and why co creation may be one of the most powerful ways of helping people move from abstract ideas to tangible action. Along the way we discuss ownership, expertise, accountability, skin in the game, whether facilitators can ever truly be neutral, and even whether artificial intelligence can become a co creator. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I think you will too. I am grateful to have Susan and Terri chatting with me today. About The Guests Susan Bartlett I am a principal at Workomics, where we help biotechs bring life-changing therapies to patients. I contribute to projects from the perspectives of go-to-market strategy, operational effectiveness, human-centred design, and strategic communications. I treasure my colleagues and my clients, and feel fortunate to be able to work with them every day. I write a monthly Substack newsletter (please subscribe!). Through the newsletter, I explore how we make work and workplaces better for people — customer-centric, inclusive and equitable, focused on employee well-being, meaningfully integrated with emerging technology. In the past, I have been a Rhodes Scholar, a CEO, and a licensed propane dispenser, only one of which involved an objective assessment of my abilities. I love to solve specific, pragmatic problems by drawing on a variety of disciplines and traditions — my university degrees span English literature, software design, philosophy, politics, and economics, and computer science. At various points in my career, I have devoted myself to: — Communicating complex medical concepts to patients. — Architecting the data, software, technology, and IT governance structures of large enterprises. — Embedding human-centred design capabilities to enable customer experience. — Applying machine learning techniques to natural language problems. Terri Block I co-lead Workomics where we help biotechs and pharma bring life-changing medications to patients who need it. We focus on patient experience including go-to-market strategies and campaigns, creating impactful educational experiences for patients and their care teams, and empowering internal teams to champion patient-centricity across their organization. My career in human-centered design in the life sciences industry spans 10 years and is underpinned by a whole other career in theatre and teaching. The red thread is bringing the best out in people and imagining better possibilities for our work-at-hand. I am a creative at heart and author of Words of Wonder www.wordsofwonderbook.com. Contact workomics.com Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
June 11, 20268 min
Stories Of Change - Why Elevators Needed Humans First
Stories of Change is a special series from The Inner Game of Change. In this series, I explore stories from history, business, science, education, and sometimes from unexpected places. Some stories are famous. Many are not. Together, we will uncover the lessons hidden inside them and what they can teach us about change, leadership, human behaviour, innovation, trust, learning, and adaptation. In this first episode of Stories of Change, we explore what elevators, trust, adoption, and artificial intelligence might have in common, and why every generation has its own version of the rope. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
May 18, 20267 min
Inside The Messy Middle - The Gravity of the Old Way
Inside the Messy Middle is a special series from T he Inner Game of Change This fortnightly short series is for people who carry responsibility inside complexity. Between strategy and delivery. Between intent and impact. Between what was imagined and what must now be made real. In this episode of Inside the Messy Middle , I explore a salient idea: What if organisations are not resisting change… but being pulled back by the gravity of the current way of working? As AI enters workplaces, many organisations are introducing new capabilities while still operating inside environments designed for older workflows, behaviours, incentives, and assumptions. Through stories from business and history, including the arrival of electricity in factories and the persistence of the QWERTY keyboard, Ali explores why transformation often stalls even when people are willing to move. This episode is about: • behavioural gravity • environmental design • AI adoption versus workflow redesign • why old systems keep pulling people back • and the hidden tension between movement and stability inside organisations Because sometimes the challenge is not the future itself. It is the environment still rewarding the past. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Ali Juma @The Inner Game of Change podcast Follow me on LinkedIn
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