Test. Optimize. Scale.

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Oct 2026

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Listen as industry leaders and pioneers share their insights and experiences of growing their businesses to scale using marketing. Find out what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale as they speak with Jason Fishman, SVP Digital Strategy, DNA - Digital Niche Agency.

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November 6, 2026Episode 25351 min

EP. 253: Shmuel Herschberg - Lifetime Value Is Really 180 Days

When should a brand scale its ad spend? Shmuel Herschberg, CMO of Built To Scale, says not until your margins can handle the volume: prove the campaign is profitable at a lower spend first, then scale and make sure profitability holds. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., he and host Jason Fishman break down the metrics that matter, how to think about lifetime value, and what separates the brands that win in paid media. Shmuel also explains why the best clients split test their agencies, why lifetime value should be measured over 90 to 180 days instead of a customer's whole life, why UGC still wins on authenticity, how AI speeds up landing pages while testing still needs real budget behind each ad, why localization beats translation in new markets, and how Google Demand Gen campaigns have helped some brands scale their daily spend profitably. Questions this episode answers: * When should you scale ad spend? (When your margins can handle the volume. Prove profitability at a lower spend first, then scale and watch that it holds) * What is a realistic lifetime value window for a DTC or ecommerce brand? (Usually 90 to 180 days, not the customer's whole life) * Is it a bad sign when a client works with more than one agency? (Shmuel says those are often the most mature clients) * What does a high cost per click actually mean? (Not always a problem. It can bring a very high intent buyer, so judge it against your baselines and down funnel results) * What ad creative is working right now? (UGC for authenticity, then strong product shots further down the funnel) * Can you test too many AI generated ads at once? (Yes. Without enough budget per ad, there is no statistical relevance) * Where should a brand look for new ad ideas? (Competitors' ads in the Meta Ad Library and Google Ads Transparency Center, customer reviews, and your customer service team) * Which ad channel is helping brands scale right now? (Built To Scale has seen strong results from Google Demand Gen campaigns) About Shmuel Herschberg: Shmuel Herschberg is the CMO of Built To Scale, a performance marketing agency that runs paid campaigns on Meta, Google, native, and AppLovin for direct to consumer, ecommerce, health and wellness, telehealth, and lead generation brands. He started his career in email marketing almost 20 years ago, served as director of marketing at a publicly traded company in Israel, and founded his own consultancy, Shyn Media, before joining Built To Scale. He also advises seven and eight figure brands. Connect with Shmuel Herschberg: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shmuelh/ Built To Scale: https://builttoscale.co 00:00 Cold open: no product is truly one of a kind 00:17 Introduction: Shmuel Herschberg, CMO of Built To Scale 00:54 From email marketing to Shyn Media to Built To Scale 03:01 Brand storytelling, honest feedback, and the red line 06:42 The brands Built To Scale works with 09:52 Why the best clients split test their agencies 14:13 Paid vs organic and the shift to GEO 15:34 Scale spend only when margins can handle volume 20:48 Lifetime value means 90 to 180 days, not forever 29:16 Real estate and capital raise campaign economics 33:46 Creative that works: UGC and product shots 35:39 Ad channels: Meta, Google, AppLovin, and native 36:39 AI landing pages, testing volume, and localization 41:37 What to test next: competitors, reviews, and support 44:51 Optimization and compounding small gains 46:39 Scaling with Google Demand Gen 48:06 Where to find Shmuel and why to keep asking why Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week. #TestOptimizeScale #PerformanceMarketing #PaidMedia #Ecommerce #GrowthMarketing

November 4, 2026Episode 25245 min

EP. 252: Ezra Cohen - AI Is a Tool, Not a Crutch

How should a software team actually use AI? Ezra Cohen, CEO and one of the original founders of LucidCircus, says treat it as a tool, not a crutch: his team spends 60 to 70 percent of a project thinking through the platform before it is built, then uses AI like an intern for the grunt work. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., he tells host Jason Fishman why that approach has made his developers only about 10 percent faster, and why he has no plans to push them to go faster. Ezra also shares his path from art school and Flash web design in Philadelphia to running an engineering team in Prague, why vibe-coded apps built in tools like Lovable or Claude Code stall before they are enterprise-ready, what a pre-acquisition technical due diligence report shows PE and VC investors, how UX and CRO fixes rescue software that already works, why generative engine optimization is changing how content gets written, and why it is harder for startups to get off the ground in Europe than in the US. Questions this episode answers: * How much faster does AI make a software development team? (About 10 percent for Ezra's team, which uses it for grunt tasks and audits) * Why do vibe-coded apps built with Lovable or Claude Code get stuck? (They reach about 90 percent, then hit a wall when they need payments, multiple users, or enterprise scale) * What does a pre-acquisition technical due diligence report cover? (Code base, tech stack, compliance, security, and UX, so investors are not surprised) * Why would a client think their software is broken when it is not? (Often it is UX: the features exist but users cannot find the buttons) * How do you stop a web page from losing visitors? (Keep it simple and lead the eye straight to the call to action) * How far ahead should a software roadmap be planned? (Learn the full blue sky vision, then plan in phases, usually six to twelve months out) * How do you make sure your tech stack can handle a traffic spike? (Set hosting to scale automatically before a launch or PR event) * Is it harder to start a company in Europe than in the US? (Ezra says yes, mainly because of regulation, and he has gone to the European Parliament in Brussels with the Association for Competitive Technology, which advocates for founders) About Ezra Cohen: Ezra Cohen is the Chief Executive Officer of LucidCircus and one of its original founders. The company has operated since December 1998. Ezra grew up in Philadelphia, studied at the University of the Arts, and is based in Prague, Czechia. LucidCircus builds custom web and mobile software for startups and scale-ups, runs code audits and pre-acquisition due diligence for investors, and supports long-term clients across WordPress, design, SEO, PPC, and CRO. Connect with Ezra Cohen: LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/ezraalexandercohen-lucidcircus LucidCircus: https://lucidcircus.com 00:00 Introduction: Ezra Cohen, CEO of LucidCircus 03:18 Flash work, the dot-com crash, and moving to Prague 07:43 Pre-acquisition due diligence and technical debt 10:51 An art background applied to software 15:07 How AI has changed the work 20:12 AI is a tool, not a crutch, and the Photoshop comparison 24:33 A developer joke and the rising cost of design tokens 28:06 Generative engine optimization and content built for AI 31:22 Plan in phases around a blue sky vision 34:38 Scaling, hosting, and handling a traffic spike 38:24 Europe vs the US: regulation, grants, and capital 42:12 Where to find Ezra and his take on the AI bubble Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week. #TestOptimizeScale #SoftwareDevelopment #AI #TechDueDiligence #StartupFounders

October 23, 2026Episode 25145 min

EP. 251: Joe May - Turn Your Customers Into Your Investors

What is the best way to start raising capital? Joe May, securities attorney and founder of May Law Group, says don't ask investors for money at first. Ask them for feedback. Meet with people who actually write checks, learn what valuation and terms they expect, and ask who else you should talk to. When you launch, you go back to that list ready to close. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman interviews Joe May, a securities and capital formation attorney who helps founders raise capital and stay compliant with the SEC. Before running his own law firm, Joe worked in startup operations, helped agency clients fundraise, and raised over $2 million for his own tech company. Questions this episode answers: How should founders start a capital raise? (Ask actual check writers for feedback, not money) Why should you ignore advice from people who only "know investors"? How many investors do you need to talk to? (As many as 300 to close 3 in today's market) How do you turn one feedback meeting into warm introductions? Why does the feedback phase take longer than the raise itself? (Six to eight weeks of feedback, then two to three weeks to close) Why can a wrong valuation kill a deal before the pitch? What three numbers do you need nailed before you launch? (Valuation, how much you're raising, and use of funds) Why is investment crowdfunding so powerful for consumer brands? (Customers become investors and promoters) Can investment crowdfunding be used for real estate? (Yes, up to $5 million a year, used to acquire properties and build toward a fund) What can you offer investors through crowdfunding? (Equity, debt, revenue share and more) How do you optimize a raise that isn't working? (A big enough investor list to recalibrate, and the same valuation every pitch) How do you scale a raise? (Prove results, then go back for bigger rounds and bigger checks) Connect with Joe May: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mayjoseph/ May Law Group: https://maylawgrp.com Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week.

October 3, 2026Episode 25052 min

EP. 250: David Dressler - Tender Greens Co-Founder on Building a 1,200-Person Restaurant Brand

How do you grow one restaurant into a $100 million brand with 1,200 employees? David Dressler, co-founder of Tender Greens, started with a plan written into the company's name: 10 years, 3 guys, 30 restaurants. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman interviews David Dressler, co-founder of Tender Greens, the fast casual restaurant brand he helped scale from a single 1,700-square-foot location in Culver City to a $100 million company. Tender Greens was named one of the ten best restaurant chains in the world by Condé Nast and one of the 25 most innovative consumer brands by Forbes. David now works as a trusted thinking partner to founders and executives, including leaders taking their organizations through AI transformation. Questions this episode answers: - How did Tender Greens start? (Three hotel colleagues, a friends-and-family raise of $1 million, and a lot of no's) - What was the idea behind Tender Greens? (Fine dining quality without the cost of fine dining) - What happened on opening day? (A line around the block, and no food left by 7 p.m.) - How did Tender Greens market itself before social media? (PR, local sponsorships, and "best of" lists) - How do you choose restaurant locations? (Four criteria, set before you fall in love with a building) - Why develop your own talent instead of hiring experienced chefs? - What is a leader's real job? (Make it easy for the team to do great work, and remove roadblocks) - When should founders bring in an advisory board and a C-suite? - How do you know when it is time to step aside as CEO? - Why is leadership lonely, and what can you do about it? - How should leaders optimize? (Ask the people doing the work, let them own the fix, then revisit it) - How should teams think about AI tools? (Move from doer to orchestrator and quality control) Connect with David Dressler: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidtdressler/ Website: https://daviddressler.co Newsletter: The Early Signal (weekly on LinkedIn) Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week.

September 25, 2026Episode 24947 min

EP. 249: Eric Josovitz - The Finance Mistakes That Quietly Kill Startups

How much equity should a founder give away in a funding round? Eric Josovitz, founder and CEO of AdaptCFO, has a firm rule: never more than 30% per round. If you would need to give away more, go back and build more value first. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman interviews Eric Josovitz, founder and CEO of AdaptCFO, a fractional CFO and accounting firm for founders. Eric served as fractional CFO for PrizePicks, has a client that recently had a $4 billion exit, and was head of finance at specialty pharmacy Encompass Rx, which grew from $100 million to $400 million in about a year and a half before selling to CVS. He also hosts the Growth Under Pressure podcast. Questions this episode answers: - How much equity should you give away per funding round? (No more than 30%) - What is the cheapest type of capital? (Grants, then debt. Equity is the most expensive.) - What happens when an early investor gets too much control? - Why is overvaluing your company dangerous? (It sets you up for a down round) - Why do the real KPIs start with your financial statements? - What does a five-year books cleanup and a six-figure IRS fine teach founders? - When should you raise capital? (Before you need it, and when investors are ready, not just when you are) - Why did Duolingo build users before monetizing? - How is scaling direct-to-consumer different from scaling B2B? - What is the difference between a real CFO and a bookkeeper? - How do you optimize when the numbers aren't working? (Coaching, practice, and realistic benchmarks) - How do you scale? (Pour into what works, cut what doesn't, and rebalance your spending buckets) Connect with Eric Josovitz: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josovitz/ AdaptCFO: https://adaptcfo.com Podcast: @adaptcfo Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Preview: don't be afraid to start 0:13 - Who is Eric Josovitz? 1:24 - Pre-med, Division II football, and failing his first accounting class 2:24 - From public accounting to head of finance 3:21 - Encompass Rx: $100M to $400M and a sale to CVS 3:58 - Launching AdaptCFO: a new baby, a torn Achilles, and a career change in the same few weeks 6:54 - Why accounting and finance are the backbone of a business 8:03 - The five-year books cleanup and a six-figure IRS fine 8:33 - Why the real KPIs start with your financial statements 12:14 - Why fundraising can go wrong fast 12:45 - The 30% rule for every round 13:19 - Grants, debt, equity: ranking the cost of capital 16:22 - The early investor who got too much control 17:03 - Overvaluation and the down round trap 18:27 - Where marketing and finance have to meet 21:20 - Marketing is trial and error: why your budget needs flexibility 22:01 - PrizePicks and the Atlanta Braves partnership that wasn't in the budget 22:49 - The Duolingo lesson: build users before you monetize 25:13 - Mission first: why the CEO shouldn't focus on the metrics 26:42 - Raise before you need to: thinking like an investor 27:43 - The founder with three days of runway 28:18 - What a real CFO does 29:07 - Direct-to-consumer vs. B2B: where the capital goes 30:01 - Using benchmarks to allocate a raise 32:29 - What to test: honesty and vulnerability 35:02 - Keep it simple: the few channels that move the needle 37:10 - If you can't measure it, you can't optimize it 38:01 - How to optimize: coaching, practice, and realistic benchmarks 40:24 - Pricing, lifetime value, and the four Ps 41:06 - How to scale: pour into what works, cut what doesn't 42:54 - Rebalancing G&A, R&D, and sales and marketing 43:38 - Outsourcing admin to free up growth capital 44:57 - Final thoughts and where to find Eric

September 19, 2026Episode 2481 hr 0 min

EP. 248: Karl Pontau - Practical tips for networking and relationship management

Looking for practical networking and relationship management tips that work? Karl Pontau says it does not matter if your business is B2B or B2C. It is really H2H: human to human. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), interviews Karl Pontau, human connection expert, host of the Human Connection Podcast (230+ episodes), and founder of Vouch Connections, a concierge networking firm for busy executives. At 15, Karl survived two malignant brain tumors, an experience that taught him what matters when everything is on the line: genuine human connection, honest communication, and showing up for each other. He now shares the proven relationship-building tactics executives use to drive relationship-driven revenue growth. Questions this episode answers: - What does H2H (human to human) mean in business? - Why does every business relationship need both "rebar" (mutually beneficial transactions) and "concrete" (personal connection)? - Why should you build relationships before you need them? - Why do people avoid networking? (Research by Boothby and Bohns, 2021: we underestimate how good interactions feel and overestimate the awkwardness) - What is the daily compliment habit and why does it work? - How did a law firm grow from zero to $3M by listening to callers for 10 minutes? - Why do founders feel empty after a successful exit? - How many relationships can one person realistically maintain? (Around 150, so prioritize a core group of 12 to 20) - How should you approach networking events? (Be the most interested person in the room, not the most interesting) - What is a better question than "How are you?" ("What has been a highlight of your week?") - Why are real relationships a competitive moat in the AI era? - How do you scale human connection without losing authenticity? Connect with Karl Pontau: @TheHumanConnectionPodcast https://thehumanconnectionpodcast.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kpontau/ Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week.

September 12, 2026Episode 2471 hr 1 min

EP. 247: Rod Turner - Fear of missing out drives investor action.

Can your company pass the 15-second test? Rod Turner says if you cannot explain your business in 15 to 20 seconds online, your capital raise will not work, no matter how strong the company is. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), interviews Rod Turner, founder and CEO of Manhattan Street Capital, the first dedicated Regulation A+ funding platform, live since June 2015. Rod is a seven-time tech startup veteran who was the 12th employee at Ashton-Tate (dBASE), built Norton AntiVirus from scratch at Symantec, took two companies through IPOs to NASDAQ, and suggested the concept the SEC later named "Test the Waters." Questions this episode answers: - What is Regulation A+ and why did Rod Turner call it the SEC's most pragmatic rule system? - Which industries raise capital most successfully online? (Real estate, biotech, med tech, and consumer-relatable technology) - Why do Main Street investors fund biotech companies that institutional investors pass on? - What is the 15-second explainability test for online capital raises? - What is "proof of life" and why do stagnant offering pages kill investor confidence? - Why do eye-to-camera founder videos convert investors? (Viewers feel they already know you) - How did Insitu Biologics convert 87% of its reservations into investments in three weeks? - How did a 7-second video ad cut one campaign's cost from $10 to $3.30 per $100 raised? - Can you raise your share price during a Reg A+ offering? (Yes, within SEC rules, and it rewards early investors while managing dilution) - How do direct listings work through Reg A+ when the IPO window is closed? (Newsmax's March 2025 Reg A+ IPO discussed) - How should issuers structure offerings so institutions can participate? (Bonus shares and parallel Reg D offerings) - Why should founders never prejudge which ad creative will convert? Connect with Rod Turner and Manhattan Street Capital: Website: https://www.manhattanstreetcapital.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rodturner-msc/ CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 0:38 - Who is Rod Turner and what is Manhattan Street Capital? 1:16 - From apprentice engineer at a UK nuclear power station to Silicon Valley 3:55 - Employee #12 at Ashton-Tate: 12 people to 2,000 and an IPO 4:39 - Building Norton AntiVirus from scratch at Symantec 5:22 - Why the Reg A+ rules impressed a seven-time startup veteran 6:26 - Founding the first dedicated Reg A+ platform in 2015 8:00 - Why Manhattan Street Capital skipped Reg CF and stayed boutique 11:29 - What differentiates the platform: tracking pixels, logic, and transparency 15:30 - Which verticals raise the most: real estate, biotech, and relatable tech 17:21 - Why Main Street investors fund biotech that institutions pass on 21:12 - The 15-second explainability test for online raises 23:24 - Proof of life: why stagnant offering pages lose investors 25:55 - Eye-to-camera founder videos and why they build trust 28:24 - Viral reach: the GolfSuites ads investors shared in droves 31:18 - How Rod suggested "Test the Waters" to the SEC 32:44 - The takeoff-speed problem: why tiny ad budgets never get airborne 34:12 - Insitu Biologics: 87% of reservations converted in three weeks 36:29 - Direct listings through Reg A+ when the IPO window is closed 38:01 - The Newsmax March 2025 Reg A+ IPO 39:52 - Cub Crafters, Red Bull, and 1.6 billion views 43:15 - Structuring offerings so institutions can invest 44:25 - Never prejudge your creative: the green company case study 47:08 - Optimization: the 7-second video ad that cut costs 3x 50:13 - Raising your share price mid-offering to reward early investors 53:04 - Why securities attorneys give contradictory answers on Reg A+ 56:49 - Where to find Rod Turner and final advice

August 25, 2026Episode 2461 hr 3 min

EP. 246: Cate Diaz & Devin Ambron - The Three Signals That Make Investors Trust a Raise

How do the top crowdfunding campaigns raise millions while the bottom 50% stay stagnant? Cate Diaz and Devin Ambron have the data: their agency, Market Chemistry, has run just under 80 capital raises and helped startups secure over $225 million. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), interviews Cate Diaz and Devin Ambron, the team behind Market Chemistry, a fundraising firm based in Austin, Texas. Market Chemistry provides full-service fundraising and investor readiness materials for early and growth-stage startups, operating a 250,000-investor database and running Reg CF, Reg A+, and traditional rounds across the US and Canada. Questions this episode answers: What is investor readiness and what should founders prepare before a capital raise? What are the four core elements every crowdfunding pitch needs? (Mission and story, team, traction, use of funds) How do you create social proof for an investment campaign? (Pathos, ethos, logos framework) Why do cold email lists fail for investor outreach? (A 48,000-contact list produced near zero) What are the three rings of investor outreach? (Warm network, owned investor database, paid traffic) Why do founders misread advertising attribution on capital raises? (Multi-touch journeys, iOS tracking limits, modeled conversions) What is rejection data and how does it improve a campaign? What are the three levers of campaign optimization? (Message, audience, offer) How do you scale a raise once it starts working? (Lookalike investor matching, finding the thread, duplicating what converts) Why do overinflated valuations kill crowdfunding campaigns? Why can't marketing compensate for a weak offer? ("You can't optimize for trust") Connect with Cate Diaz and Devin Ambron: Website: mktchemistry.com Cate Diaz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catediaz/ Devin Ambron on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dambron/ Newsletter: Community Capital Club (link in the mktchemistry.com footer) Connect with Jason Fishman, host of Test. Optimize. Scale.: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jafishman/ Connect with Digital Niche Agency (DNA), the growth marketing agency behind this podcast: Website: www.digitalnicheagency.com Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Who are Cate Diaz and Devin Ambron of Market Chemistry? 1:02 - Cate's origin story: from Austin startups to pitch decks that raised Texas's largest seed round 4:16 - Devin's background: storytelling meets fundraising operations 6:51 - What is investor readiness? Operating the raise so founders can run the business 8:54 - Why organizing your traction into one document changes how founders see their business 10:16 - What actually moves investors: the core four elements of every pitch 13:08 - The crowd effect: how popular sentiment accelerates campaigns 16:53 - The three rings of investor outreach: warm network, owned database, paid traffic 18:15 - Why cold email lists fail: the 48,000-contact list that produced nothing 19:28 - Pathos, ethos, logos: the framework for building social proof 22:50 - Making your message repeatable: why clarity spreads 25:29 - Why founders underestimate their warm network 27:54 - Attribution myths: why "ads aren't working" is usually wrong 33:03 - The rolling thunder technique: showing up everywhere at once 35:27 - Rejection data as diagnostics: what investor "no"s teach you 36:12 - The three optimization levers: message, audience, offer 39:54 - Scaling on proof, not hope: why volume amplifies whatever is already happening 43:37 - What founders should test before launching a raise 45:32 - The audience test that predicts top 1% campaigns 47:35 - Diagnosing a broken funnel: investor movement vs. marketing motion 50:12 - How to scale a working campaign: finding and duplicating the thread 52:57 - Lookalike investor matching and analyzing who actually invests 55:11 - The Tesla lesson: why your first investors aren't who you think 58:13 - Fair valuations: why overpriced deals flop with retail investors 59:27 - "You can't optimize for trust": building an audience before you need it 1:02:09 - Where to find Market Chemistry and final numbers: 80 raises, $225M+

August 25, 2026Episode 24537 min

EP. 245: Cam Pritchard - Why Podcast Advertising Outperforms Social, TV, and Display

What is the highest-returning ad channel most brands ignore? Podcast advertising. On average, podcast ads return 4.2x on ad spend, compared to roughly 3.6x for social media advertising, with TV and display lower still. Yet half of all podcast ad spots go unsold. In this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., host Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), interviews Cam Pritchard, CEO and founder of SpotsNow. SpotsNow is a podcast advertising marketplace that lets brands research shows, see which podcasts their competitors advertise on, plan a campaign in five minutes, and book host-read ads directly, the way Thumbtack simplified booking home services. Cam Pritchard is a former Thumbtack product manager who founded New Zealand's first textbook rental platform and worked with Travis and Jason Kelce on the fan engagement platform for their New Heights podcast before founding SpotsNow. Questions this episode answers: Why do podcast ads outperform social, TV, and display advertising? What ROAS can advertisers expect from podcast advertising? (Average: 4.2x) Why do host-read podcast ads convert better than produced ads? How did BetterHelp build its business on podcast advertising? (Roughly $100M per year in spend) How do audio pixels track podcast ad conversions to the dollar? What is the fastest way to plan a podcast ad campaign? (Five minutes on SpotsNow vs. a full day manually) How do advertisers buy unsold podcast inventory at a discount? (SpotsNow's last-minute booking model, similar to Hotel Tonight) Which industries advertise on podcasts? (Consumer brands, B2B SaaS, legal AI, fintech, retail) Why should B2B brands advertise on podcasts? (Executives and decision makers listen; companies like Vanta and Oracle buy the channel) How do you optimize a podcast ad campaign? (Portfolio approach: identify top-performing shows, cut underperformers, scale with lookalike shows) Why would a health brand like Oura Ring advertise on true crime podcasts? (Audience demographics beat category matching) Connect with Cam Pritchard and SpotsNow: Website: spotsnow.io LinkedIn: / campbellpritchard Connect with Jason Fishman, host of Test. Optimize. Scale.: LinkedIn: / jafishman Connect with Digital Niche Agency (DNA), the growth marketing agency behind this podcast: Website: www.digitalnicheagency.com Test. Optimize. Scale. is a weekly podcast from Digital Niche Agency covering growth marketing, advertising, capital raising, and business strategy, hosted by Jason Fishman. Subscribe for new episodes every week. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Who is Cam Pritchard and what is SpotsNow? 0:49 - From New Zealand's first textbook rental platform to Thumbtack 2:02 - Working with Travis and Jason Kelce on the New Heights fan platform 2:59 - Why half of all podcast ad spots go unsold 4:17 - Why host-read podcast ads convert better than other ad formats 6:16 - How BetterHelp built its business on $100M a year in podcast ads 7:48 - Why trust is the marketing currency of the AI era 9:23 - How SpotsNow turns podcast ads into direct response advertising 10:54 - Buying unsold premium podcast inventory at last-minute discounts 12:05 - How audio pixels track podcast ads to the dollar 15:14 - How to plan a podcast ad campaign in five minutes 16:47 - Why instant booking changes podcast advertising 18:54 - Are podcast ads better for prospecting or mid-funnel? 20:50 - Podcast retargeting and B2B lead identification 23:00 - The portfolio approach to buying podcast ads 26:02 - Which industries advertise on podcasts: consumer, SaaS, legal AI 28:16 - Podcast ad ROAS vs. social, TV, and display: the numbers 29:57 - How to run your first podcast ad test campaign 33:17 - How to optimize a podcast ad campaign that is underperforming 35:32 - How to scale podcast advertising with lookalike shows 37:21 - Why Oura Ring should advertise on true crime podcasts 39:13 - Where to find Cam Pritchard and SpotsNow

August 1, 2026Episode 24448 min

EP. 244: Loralyn Mears - Mastering AI for Brand Visibility

If AI does not understand what you do, who you do it for, and the value you bring, it cannot recommend you. And if it cannot recommend you, you are invisible. Loralyn Mears, PhD, is the founder of STEERus and the author of Misinterpreted, a book about the hidden risk making brands and leaders invisible in the age of AI. Her career spans genetically engineering mosquitoes to fight malaria, the dot-com era in Silicon Valley, leadership roles at Fortune 100 companies, and more startups than she can count. The through line: taking complex concepts and making them simple enough to act on. In this episode, Loralyn breaks down why the game has changed from Google search to AI search, and what brands need to do right now to be understood, recommended, and chosen. What We Cover: Why the average American communicates at a fourth-grade reading level and what that means for your messaging The Microsoft study showing we get distracted 187 times per day The UDA framework: Understand, Decide, Act, and why buyers get trapped in the zone of chaos and confusion Why "invisible brands don't make money" in the age of AI search SEO vs. AEO vs. GEO: what each one actually does Signal distortion: the next evolution beyond generative engine optimization Why AI search interprets what it thinks you want while Google search just finds words Why pivots, rebrands, and category creators confuse AI the most The role of reviews, Google Business Profile, and third party validation in AI visibility Clarity, consistency, context, evidence, trust, and restraint as the pillars of being understood How to test, optimize, and scale your brand's interpretation over time Connect with Loralyn Mears: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/loralynmears/ Podcast: Small Business Stories