Suite Spot: A Hotel Marketing Podcast

220 – The Hospitality SHE Suite: Jenna Fishel

<p>What helps a woman build a lasting career in hospitality and find her voice as a leader? In this episode of the Hospitality SHE Suite, Cassady Quintana welcomes Jenna Fishel, Chief Commercial Officer at First Hospitality, to talk about growing into leadership. In their conversation, Jenna shares an honest perspective on finding your footing as a leader and why recognizing what’s possible for your career is essential. They discuss the power of supportive relationships, the courage to pursue new opportunities, and the importance of helping others grow. They also reflect on the responsibility companies have to retain talent, the value of voicing your ambitions, and the trust behind new opportunities. Tune in to learn how to build a career on your own terms with Jenna Fishel.</p>

219 – Suite Success: A Hotel Reputation Management Mini Series with Andrea Stokes of J.D. Power

As part of the Suite Spot’s Suite Success: Hotel Reputation Management mini-series, Ryan Embree welcomes Andrea Stokes, Practice Lead of Hospitality Intelligence at J.D. Power, to explore the latest insights from 30 years of hotel guest satisfaction research. Drawing on data from more than 100 hotel brands across North America, Andrea shares what the findings reveal about the connection between brand consistency and guest trust, the evolving role of AI in hotel search and discoverability, and how booking channels can influence the guest experience. The conversation explores what today’s travelers value most, the encouraging trends emerging in overall guest satisfaction, and the opportunities hoteliers have to stand out in an increasingly competitive landscape. Andrea also offers practical insights for hotel owners and general managers looking to strengthen their guest experience, while looking ahead at how AI and personalization could shape the future of hospitality. Tune in to discover what the latest research reveals and what it could mean for your property’s reputation and long-term success. https://youtu.be/MQUF83nkxZc Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Suite Spot. This is your host, as always, Ryan Embree, here to introduce a brand-new mini-series that we have just launched, and we have our first guest. I’m so excited. This is part of our Suite Success, a hotel reputation management mini-series. And joining me today, Andrea Stokes, Practice Lead, Hospitality Intelligence, J.D. Power. Andrea, thank you so much for joining me on the Suite Spot. Thank you. Very happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah, we’re going to have some fun today. We’re going to talk some data, some analytics. But before we jump and dive into that good stuff, this is your first time on the Suite Spot. Appreciate you joining us. With that being your first time, love to introduce you to our audience a little bit, share a little bit about your hospitality journey. And listen, you’ve got a really unique role over there at J.D. Power that you get to look at all this hospitality data. What led you to your role over there? Yes, thank you. So I’ve been with J.D. Power seven years, actually just last week. So very exciting. Started about six months before the pandemic. So that was an interesting first run at J.D. Power. But prior to Judy Power, I worked at Marriott in the insights group there. And then, of course, before that, had worked at different research agencies focused on the travel and hospitality industry. So I have a long background in consumer survey research, customer experience research, marketing research, and was able to kind of apply all of. my training in that area to the hospitality industry specifically. So very exciting. As you know, J.D. Power is a third-party unbiased view of customers. And we say we are the voice of the customer. We will conduct studies in many, many industries. Of course, many people know the automotive industry, which is J.D. Power’s bread and butter. But we’ve actually been doing work in hospitality for three decades. So we just published our 30th North America hotel guest satisfaction study in July. So it’s very exciting time. I’m very excited about three decades. J.D. Power, we don’t have many industries, right, that we’ve covered for that long. So it’s a great year. Incredible. Congratulations, first off. And I’m sure, I mean, what an industry to follow, especially in the time span that you’ve been there and how much change has rapidly been happening within hospitality. You know, 30 years of surveys. I’m sure that we’re going to talk about maybe looking into the future a little bit. That amount of change might be just condensed into the next couple of years based on how quickly our industry, technology and AI is really changing the aspects. But I love the hotel guest satisfaction survey because I do think it obviously keeps us. at a compass and a north star to what hospitality is really about and get back to the core of people serving people, which I think sometimes can be lost with all this AI and technology speak. You mentioned that the survey’s now turning 30 years old. Can you give a little bit of background on how it’s structured and compiled? Absolutely. So we go out to the national marketplace US. We do include about 10% Canadians as well. And we ask our guests about a past 30-day hotel stay. So it’s a very recent hotel stay. And we cover over 100 brands in the studies across all segments. And then we’re asking about, again, that recent hotel stay. Basically, we want to dive deep into the guest experience from the time the guest walks through the door and until the time they check out. We do include some survey questions around reservation and booking, loyalty programs, et cetera. So we cover a little bit more, but our core benchmarks for the industry and what I think the industry really looks to J.D. Power for is the benchmark in guest rooms, in food and beverage, in staff service, hotel facilities, and other amenities, also connectivity. So we cover all of that. And we do capture guest ratings, not only at the high level for each one of those areas, but we dive deep into kind of the core table stakes for the guest experience, but also some other areas of the stay. So it’s quite a comprehensive survey. I know you’re probably used to getting those quick surveys from some of the hotel chains, but we definitely dive a little bit deeper than most of those survey programs that the chains conduct. And the industry really does look to us for that deep dive data. It’s maybe not something that they get all the time. And of course, we offer all of the data on all of the brands where any hotel group or hotel chain, they can look at their competitors as well. So we have that third party unbiased view. And that I think is – as I mentioned, it’s really the voice of the customer, the bread and butter of J.D. Power. And we’re able to provide the industry with that view. Well, it’s a great measuring stick, comprehensively, for all brands and really how you stack up against your competition and just seeing how the industry. I mean, to hear over a hundred brands, I mean, that’s just the sheer size that hospitality has grown to, which is incredible. And all of the ancillary things that come with a hotel stay. I love hospitality. You probably love it being in the industry. There are so many facets to hospitality. It’s one of those very, very unique verticals where it’s very difficult to measure because there’s so many variables within a guest stay. Now, I had the privilege of seeing you kind of present your findings at the Hotel Data Conference in Nashville. One of the main takeaways from that presentation, which I loved, was the relationship between trust and consistency. Can you elaborate a little bit on these factors and how they correlate in the study? Absolutely. So we have a few different ways of measuring consistency of the guest experience in our study. So we have a question about basically rate the brand on consistent versus inconsistent. It’s a seven-point scale, so very basic. And a guest can just provide a rating at the brand level. But then when we look at all of the individual states that we’re capturing for a brand, we can also look at consistency of all of the ratings across the board from all of the guests who are rating a particular brand. And what that allows us to do, we use statistical analysis to kind of determine that consistency. And we do see a brand could be very inconsistent where you have overall guest satisfaction ratings on one end or the other end and everywhere in the middle. But you also see brands where the ratings kind of cluster together, either very positively or potentially negatively. So you see the consistency there. If a brand has consistent high ratings for guest satisfaction, usually that correlates very highly with that it’s a trusted brand. And because we also have a question around do you feel the brand is trusted or not trusted? And we can kind of cross that data to provide a really good picture to the brand of a consistency. And as you know, the brands provide brand standards to their owners and operators. And we are able to kind of provide that view to brand leaders around, hey, are your owners adhering to brand standards? Are they providing the consistency that guests do expect? And often, when guests select a brand, they’re looking, they have experience with that brand and they’re looking for the same level of experience that they’re used to getting from previous stays with the brand. We in hospitality like those happy surprises, not the surprises as I was not expecting this, or this was not consistent with the brand that I thought it was. And it goes back to exactly what you said, Andrea, about those brand standards that I’m sure would be fascinating to watch, especially over those COVID years where those standards got a little bit more relaxed from time to time just due to the financial constraints. But here in 2026, a little bit more removed from that. I’m sure there are some very interesting trends you’re seeing there between that trust and consistency. Now, one of the biggest themes, and we talk about it all the time on the podcast, is AI search and discoverability, right? And you have some fascinating data, because obviously this is probably something a couple decades ago, we were probably talking about signage or maybe what you were looking at on the side of the road on billboards, right? And now we’re in AI search and discoverability. You have some fascinating data in the survey on sources used for hotel search and research. Could you share some of those findings? And then particularly Gen Z, how are they moving the needle in that? Yeah, so we do include younger guests. Our requirement is you have to be an adult and have a past 30-day hotel stay, as I mentioned. So every year as we conduct our survey, we’re bringing in more Gen Z travelers now. And of course, many of them have careers and they’re starting to have families. So we not only see the leisure side, but also the business side of travel among Gen Z. We did start asking about AI tools this past year for search. And not huge numbers yet. But of course, we’re starting to track it now. So we can obviously provide that information to the industry. Gen Z, of course, it’s a little more prevalent among Gen Z versus, say, when we compare like Boomers or Generation X, for example. But all guests are starting to use AI tools. As you mentioned, it’s sources of hotel search. So we’re looking at, of course, the hotel channels, the direct channels themselves, hotel websites, apps, also the OTAs, other sources. So it’s a long list. But as we start to ask about AI tools, it’s helpful to get a sense of how guests are incorporating AI tools into hotel search. We are looking at – and I realize AI booking is a little – okay, yes, it’s out there. But is it truly booking? I think as things evolve, we’ll start to dig into that a little bit more as well. Yeah, but I think it’s going to be one of those trends that it’s going to be incremental or exponential. The next one, survey next year, I would imagine those numbers or percentages are going to grow at a clip stronger than some of these other channels. So it’ll be interesting to keep an eye on for sure. You did find a gap in satisfaction, though, between some of those direct bookers and those using third-party sites. I’m curious about that, maybe what you were thinking there as far as the reason that’s a trend. Well, I mean, it is a trend, but we usually see it year over year where direct bookers tend to have a better experience or at least rate their overall experience higher than indirect bookers. And it’s not surprising, right? When you’re booking direct, the hotel property or the chain usually has more information about you as the guest. They can see if you stayed with the brand before or with the chain before. They can see if you’re a member of the loyalty program. They can kind of see a little more of your guest history and then able to personalize the stay experience for you a little bit better. Indirect, obviously a hotel usually doesn’t even really have an email. Maybe a name, and that’s it. So no real opportunity to look at the guest history with the brand or with the chain. So it sort of goes without saying that perhaps direct bookers are getting a better experience because, again, the hotel is able to provide that a little bit more personalization. Yeah. The objective and goal that we’ve been talking for the last decade, right? Personalization within our industry feels it’s closer than ever, hopefully, with some of this technology coming through. Speaking of it’s sometimes human nature and hospitality and maybe interest in life to sometimes focus on that negative. And sometimes that negative weighs so heavily or feels so loud. But really, your study or the guest satisfaction studies kind of offers a glimmer of hope when it comes to overall guest satisfaction right now in our industry, right? It’s true. I mean, and really our goal is to provide not only where the brand might be doing great, but also there’s always room for improvement. And we have very specific ways of being able to look at the various aspects of this day and what has the most impact on overall satisfaction and really allow prioritization. We get questions all the time. Well, if we’re going to work on one thing, what should that be? If we’re trying to improve X, what do we need to do here with Y? That’s great because we have so much data that it does offer an in-depth view of room for improvement, where the opportunities are. Sometimes in a segment, there really isn’t any brand doing particularly well. And it’s a white space for a brand, no matter who you are, to stand out on certain things. So it’s great for us to be able to, again, look at the positive, but also where the negative is and how we can sort of provide that prioritization for hotel brands and owners and operators to improve the stay. 100%. And on the opposite side of that spectrum, where it’s like maybe there’s nobody in the industry doing it, or there’s a gap there, there’s also a place where it feels like almost practically everyone’s doing it. And you mentioned the term table stakes. There were a couple of those findings in your study that are table stakes in hospitality today. What are some of those non-negotiables and how can hoteliers make sure they’re delivering on them? Non-negotiables would be a basic, like cleanliness of the guest room in particular. Also, the condition of the furnishings and the condition of the bathroom fixtures, right? Very important. Obviously, the guest room itself has a very high weight within our overall satisfaction score. And then things like staff service come into play. There are certain non-negotiables around the front desk being courteous, efficient, and knowledgeable. Hotel facility: we do ask about maintenance of common areas, lobbies, hallways, maintenance of pools and fitness centers, right? Again, table stakes, right? You have to have a hotel that is providing a good impression in the common areas and then a great impression in the guest room itself. Those are just examples. But again, we cover a lot of extras like Wi-Fi. Okay, everyone would say yes. Powerful Wi-Fi within the hotel is a table stake, which it’s true. And we do ask about quality of Wi-Fi. Not everyone uses food and beverage, but I will say this year was kind of surprising. We reached an 80% mark where 80% of guests are using on-property food and beverage. That’s the highest that we’ve seen it in a while. So it’s becoming very important. I do think guests are looking for the convenience of on-property food and beverage, but that does mean they have higher expectations as well. So quality of food, variety of the menu, those types of things are increasingly important. So I guess I would say everything’s a table stake, but just to sort of pinpoint what’s most important. We do have satisfaction ratings on all of those things. And again, we do know what has most impact on overall satisfaction and then the next and next and next. And you kind of can go down the list in terms of if you improve this, here’s where it will impact your overall guest experience. That’s a fascinating stat on the F&B, on the on-site F&B. And I think that perfectly aligns with what we’ve been talking about on this podcast a lot with brand leaders is really the re-emergence of the hotel F&B outlet and just the focus now. I mean, you see eating at a hotel a couple of years ago or maybe even a decade ago is very different than the experience you’re getting right now. So that is really, really fascinating to hear that stat. And another thing, Andrea, I loved hearing that answer because a lot of the aspects that you talked about, cleanliness, front desk service, upkeep, I know we talk a ton about AI and technology, but those are all places that are still human is at the center of all those things. And I think that is such a kind of a hopeful message because it just feels so much on this podcast that we talk about these emerging technologies, and it is exciting. But at the end of the day, the factors that really move the needle and that consumers and travelers care about the most are places where humans are found and are at the forefront. Little aside there. So you’ve shared with us some fascinating stats. And when you look at giant data sets like this, there’s got to be at least one or two of those things that kind of make you go, “Hmm,” like turn your head and go, “What was that?” So were there any surprising moments in this year’s kind of combing through some of that data, whether it’s positive, negative, or just out there of just being like, “That’s an interesting point?” We saw guest satisfaction increase in all segments this year. And not only small increases, but some of the increases in some segments were statistically significant, meaning higher year over year. We don’t often see that. We might see improvement in one segment here, one segment there, but across the board, a big jump in overall guest satisfaction. And that’s with rising costs and rising prices and room rates still high. I think guests are starting to get used to room rates, but they also – I think what hotels are delivering are delivering against that value proposition. And we did see the value component because we do ask about value for money for the hotel stay. And that value component also increased this year. And that’s great because it really shows that, yes, guest expectations are higher with higher room rates, but hotels are delivering against that value proposition. And guests are more happy with the value they’re getting than they were, I will say, a few years ago. Sort of that combination of just really improving hotel guest satisfaction scores, but also improving value scores helped us understand the rest of the picture, right? Again, when we look at guest rooms, when we look at food and beverage, really value is kind of a reflection of everything about the hotel stay. That I will say was surprising that it was such an across the board improvement year over year. That’s got to be something both, you mentioned it, the traveler and the guest getting used to maybe my hotel that used to cost $150 is now costing $200. And then also probably pressure from the hotelier side saying that, over the past couple of years, our guests haven’t felt the value there. So we need to step it up. And it’s kind of a meeting in the middle there of both understanding of guest expectations from the traveler’s standpoint, but also the push and need from the hotelier and operation side to say, “If we’re going to be at these rates, we need to make sure that we’re at least matching, if not exceeding those expectations.” Fascinating to see as we get a little bit. You mentioned it before, those expenses continue to see growth there. So can those rates keep up and can we keep matching the expectation of our travelers, which also are going up right now? So I’m going to have you put on your consultant hat for just a second, Andrea. I’m sure you get asked this all the time when presenting these findings, but for our Suite Spot listener, who’s either a GM or owner listening to this conversation, what was one finding in this year’s study that you would want them to take back to their property or portfolio of properties? I would say every hotel has to deal with problems. And while a small percentage of guests overall, in our study anyway, report that they experienced a problem with a hotel during the stay, some segments it’s higher than others. But on average, it’s around 10%, 11% of guests who say they experienced a problem during the stay. Obviously, you mentioned the human factor. I think that that really does go into mitigating problems before they happen. So the maintenance, the cleanliness, as much as the hotel staff can do to prevent those problems from rising to the surface ahead of time, it’s great, but that’s not always possible. And so then it really comes down to how does the staff react to a problem that the guests might report? How responsive are they? Are they using technology to be more responsive, which we do find that is really important? So whether it’s a text messaging capability with the staff or reporting a problem to the front desk and it gets addressed. It not only gets addressed quickly, but gets addressed to the satisfaction of the guest. So that, of course, happens all of the time in any industry. But I think in particular for hospitality, that getting back to the human factor again is really, really important. And I think for staff, that’s where training comes in. It’s easy to train front desk staff to be courteous and knowledgeable. But when something happens, and a problem gets reported to the front desk, the staff really does need to think on their feet, be really responsive, and understand how to handle those problems. I would say, if anything, that’s all part and parcel of the staff service experience overall. Problems can happen, and it’s how the hotel is able to deal with a guest problem and resolve it to the satisfaction of the guest. Yeah, so important there. And showing that service, that resolution, issue resolution in real time can actually be a good thing at the end of the day for a guest experience. And I completely agree with you, Andrea. I mean, I think that’s where the best use case for this technology is, is employee empowerment and augmenting that customer experience there. So great advice. I talked to you offline about how I always love this year because my LinkedIn feed is just full of J.D. Power trophies right now of all my hospitality friends and followers. So there are some J.D. Power awards that coincide with the survey. Can you share a little bit about how that process works? Absolutely. So like many other studies at J.D. Power, we do announce the rankings of brands and companies once a year, usually once a year across the different industries that J.D. Power covers. For the hospitality industry and for our hotel guest satisfaction study, we announced the awards in July and we do publicize the ranking of brands in each segment based on the overall JD Power score. So it’s a score, it’s on a 1000-point scale. We do derive the overall score from the guest’s ratings in each of those operational areas, as I mentioned, guest room, staff service, food and beverage, et cetera. So we kind of take all of that and then roll it up using regression modeling to determine the overall satisfaction score for the guests. So every hotel stay in our data set has a score. And then at the brand level, of course, we roll up those stays to provide the brand their score for overall guest satisfaction. As I mentioned, we do include – it’s mostly Americans, but some Canadians. But we are including properties in North America. So it covers US, Canada, Mexico, and Caribbean stays. So to the extent that a brand has properties outside the US, we still cover North America. So it really does give a brand a good perspective. We’re not able to necessarily collect many, many surveys at a property level, but we do actually ask the guests to provide the property. So not only the brand, their destination, but the brand. And then we do pull in property data from CoStar, which of course is a very well-known source. And so we actually do have the property information for every stay in our data set. So that really provides brands. Obviously, we’re looking at a brand level and how the brand is doing kind of, again, 10,000-foot view overall. But if a brand leader is interested, they certainly can dive deep into specific properties to kind of look at what the guest may have been saying about that particular property. Love to hear. And again, no wonder everyone’s kind of shouting those recognitions because it’s a big deal. I mean, you guys look at a lot of data. It’s very scientific, a lot of numbers, a lot of analytics in there. So congratulations to all those J.D. Power winners. I love looking at those trophies and celebrating them. I’ll continue to do that on LinkedIn when I see them. Andrea, we’re wrapping up here, but we always like to kind of end it. We kind of started the tradition during the COVID years of trying to look for that next glimmer of hope and looking into our hospitality crystal ball. Let’s fast forward to a couple few years from now. Let’s call it a 2030 guest satisfaction survey. I guess that would be another five years to 35 years, right, with the survey. What do you think the biggest difference between now and then will be? I think we’ll start seeing the impact of AI, not only in search and where we measure reservation and booking, but also the impact on operations, because that’s going to be reflected in the guest experience. So all of the ways that a property or a brand or chain might be using AI to improve training for staff, to improve efficiency, improve food and beverage. There’s a lot of innovation out there that food and beverage, we think about, okay, it’s physical food products and beverage products. But there’s a lot of innovation in food preparation, for example, that could be driven through AI technology and all of that. So it will be very interesting to see how that is reflected in the operational component. Because obviously, then when you ask the guest about their experience, you maybe will start to see that reflected, whether it ends up being good or bad, it will start to be reflected in how guests perceive their overall state experience. But the human factor will not go away. That human-to-human service is very, very important. I do hope that AI will allow for more personalization on property. Top personalization happens in marketing and a lot of that, but really when the guest walks through the door, no matter how a guest booked their stay, is the hotel able to provide a more personalized experience? So I’m not sure, because five years ago we talked about that and I’m not sure we’re quite there. But five years on, perhaps we will be. Yeah, it feels like we’re certainly getting closer. And it’s fascinating. And I’ve had conversations on this podcast before about does AI actually elevate sometimes the human experience? Could there be a survey one time that gives a five-star review because they said, “I picked up the phone and I actually got to talk to another person,” right? That would be crazy to say that somebody would think that a decade or two decades ago in our industry, but are we moving to a place where that human connection does actually start to bubble up to the top? And that’s what I’m hoping for. So very interesting to see. We will keep a close eye on your guest satisfaction survey as those findings continue to be released year after year. And thank you for your trusted work. As we wrap up, Andrea, any final thoughts today? And where can maybe our hotel listeners find some of this incredible data that you’ve procured? Well, of course, we do have information about the study at jdpower.com. So we cover a lot of industries. So you just go to jdpower.com. Click the industry menu and you’ll see travel and hospitality. So you’ll be able to see all of our work in the space. And then you can find more information about the brands that we cover that we do have that available. It’s publicly available on our website if anyone’s interested. And then, certainly, if you’re interested in subscribing to the data, which is not required, but if a chain or owner-operator is interested in subscribing to our data, it is available on a subscription basis. We have a lot of ways of delivering the data as well. So we have our own platform, but we are starting to use data marketplaces like Snowflake and Databricks and those places to make our data available as well. So we want to meet the industry where they are in terms of intelligence and analytics and all of that. So there’s more to come, I think, from J.D. Power on that front as well. In the next few years, I think we’ll see a little bit of transformation on our side in terms of how we deliver the data and the analytics to the industry. Love it. Can’t get enough data here in 2026. Thank you, Andrea, for taking a break and spending some time with us. This was fun. We’ll definitely have to have you back on the Suite Spot to find some and share some of these incredible findings that you and your team, again, work every day so hard to give us. So thank you, Andrea, for joining the Suite Spot. Thank you. All right. Awesome. And thank you for listening. We will talk to you next time on the Suite Spot Podcast.

218 – The Hospitality SHE Suite: Rosanna Maietta

<p>Preparation is key for female leaders in the hospitality industry! Today on the Hospitality SHE Suite, we are joined by the President and CEO of AHLA (American Hotel & Lodging Association), Rosanna Maietta, to talk about her successful career and leadership style. Tuning in, you’ll hear all about what inspired Rosanna to get into hospitality, what her role at AHLA looks like, what she is focused on at the moment as CEO of the organization, and more! We go on to discuss Rosanna’s leadership style and how it’s evolved over the years through the ups and downs of the industry before we delve into some words of wisdom from Rosanna on how to move past doubting yourself as a leader. She even touches on the importance of being prepared to use your voice as a woman when you are given the opportunity, why mentoring the next generation of female leaders is essential, and what men can do to support women in leadership positions. Rosanna then shares some advice for the younger generation that she wishes she had been given early in her career. Finally, our guest tells us about her role in The Hospitality Show and what she’s looking forward to about the event. Thanks for listening!</p>

217 – The Hospitality Show 2026 Preview with Brandy Rand

216 – The Hospitality SHE Suite: Kat Woods

215 – TMG Hospitality Trailblazers: Charles Oswald

Special guest and familiar face, Charles Oswald joins the Suite Spot in his return to the TMG Hospitality Trailblazers series. As CEO & President of Aperture Hotels, Charles shares his insights on AI & technology in hospitality, capital investment challenges, and his vision for the Aperture Hotels brand. Tune in now to the full conversation. Ryan Embree: Welcome to Suite Spot, where hoteliers check in and we check out what’s trending in hotel marketing. I’m your host, Ryan Embree. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Suite Spot. This is your host, Ryan Embree, here for another edition of our TMG Hospitality Trailblazers. Technically, a look back on a few years back when we visited with this particular individual and company trailblazing and paving the way forward in hospitality. That is Charles Oswald, president and CEO of Aperture Hotels. Charles, thank you so much for being back here on The Suite Spot. Charles Oswald: Oh, it’s good to be back. Thank you. Ryan Embree: Yeah. You’ve been busy. It’s been a long time. I had to look back and see the last time we visited here on The Suite Spot. We did our original hospitality trailblazers, really in the infancy of Aperture Hotels back in December 2023. A lot’s changed on that since then, right? So catch us up a little bit. What have you been working on? There’s been some incredible growth that we’ve seen with your company. Congratulations on that. But catch us up since we last visited. Charles Oswald: First off, so at that time when we had launched Aperture Hotels, we were coming out in the, in the wake of the pandemic. So if you kind of think back where we were three and four years ago versus today, there were a lot of properties that had gone through this economic shock, and there were owners who were reeling from that experience, especially those that had corporate business travel hotels as opposed to those leisure destinations that benefited from the pandemic. And so during that time, Aperture actually went on and took on almost 30 different properties that we added to the portfolio, that were, driven by those owners who needed a new management company to come and take a look at their, their with fresh eyes and take a look at their top line strategies, their expense controls. And so we had a lot of properties, and they were 100% of those properties were not through acquisitions, but were actually just performance turnaround assignments where they were switching management companies, to somebody to take a fresh look. So, with all that said, we found ourselves, walking into properties that were on, like, the sixth or seventh year of a five-year hold strategy for private equity firms or high net worth individuals and so on. And that quickly turned into turnarounds, which the story from us lately has actually been sales, a lot of sales, 20 plus sales over the course of this last year. And so today, as we stand here, I’m actually more rebuilding the pipeline with a mix of more management change assignments, plus a few pipeline of new developments. And those new developments are mostly, like, 100 or 300 room soft brand properties across the country. So yeah a lot’s changed for sure. Really rapid growth, really rapid sales, and now more sort of measured one at a time growth. Ryan Embree: Yeah, and I wanna talk about that, because I’ve had the privilege to talk to some management company owners and leaders, and they’ve kind of echoed that same sentiment of not just growth, but strategic growth. And that seems to be where you are right now, too. So when you kind of take a look at. I know you mentioned that particular segment, but when you take a look at the hospitality landscape right now, what makes the right strategic partner for Aperture Hotels right now as you kind of enter this cycle where you’re trying to build back up a little bit? Charles Oswald: You’re right. The right partner, it’s about fit. And when you look at the experience of our leadership team, we’re really engineered towards compact, full service hotels, lifestyle, premium select service brands. They can be brand or independent. We’d like to partner with owners that have some portfolio stable scalability. Preferably they own by that, I mean, they own more than one hotel, and there might be more than one opportunity there. You know, we wanna work with those owners that know what they’re doing, right? They’ve got some, some governance, sophistication, some decision speed. Hopefully, they’ve not just made bad investments when they’re turning over these properties, but really, they’re looking for some performance turnaround in a good investment. And preferably those are longer term holds. As you can tell, we did a lot of hard work for some turnarounds and watched them sell. And they sold largely to owners who had their own management. So that’s tricky for us, right? That leads us looking for more opportunities. So in terms of us in aperture and how we see ourselves in competitive points of difference is we’ve got a group that has hundreds of hotels of experiments. Myself, I’ve managed about 300 hotels now over the years, and they’ve ranged from little 60-room properties up to a thousand plus room convention hotels and resorts. And so what we bring is, we’ve got big experience in our leadership team, but we’re in a small package, right? A boutique-sized company that can give more corporate support to property ratio. And we’re very data-driven in how we use our decision-making tools to uncover those hidden business opportunities and the potential to drive market share and outperform GOP. Big experience, I’d say that corporate support, the data-driven decision-making process and tools, I think is really what sets us aside. And by the way, I’ll just mention that our average RGI that we’ve achieved in the first 18 months when you put us in place after another management company, the average RGI growth or repar index gains is actually just over 10%. So we’ve had, like, incredible turnarounds at the top line, which leads them to great bottom line improvements as well. Ryan Embree: Which makes it so much more impressive, too, with the climate right now. And these events that we go to would talk about operating and margins right now, and trying to be just efficient as possible, because costs are, are rising right now. It is certainly difficult to navigate, and I’m sure that experience that you’ve had has certainly lended itself to some great stories that you can then share to help grow that portfolio. And the other part of the experience that you were talking about is you have the data and the insights. And one of the places you find that data and insights is obviously hospitality events that are going on. I’ve had the pleasure of running into you at quite a number of these. If I’m not running into you, Charles, I’m seeing you up on stage conducting interviews or, or sharing some of your takeaways on LinkedIn after the event. You got a busy second half of the year. I wanna talk about these events, though, and how you kind of leverage them, right? So, why do you think these events, especially now, are so important? And then, how do you measure success of an event once it’s completed, whether that be a lodging conference, an investment conference, or whether it be, just an educational data event? Charles Oswald: Look, that’s a really good question. When you consider the time, travel budget, and the opportunity costs on an executive’s busy calendar to get out to these conferences and spend three, four days between the travel and the time out there, we’ve gotta be, we’ve gotta be very intentional, right, about how we approach it. So, I see value in going to these conferences because of deal sourcing and the relationship capital that we pick up. Also, I think there’s that market intelligence and the pricing signals that we get from those from this conference. There’s the access to capital markets. That was particularly important for me here recently as I was looking to as I’m in the process of acquiring a property right now in Phoenix, and when we needed to raise LP capital and we had those relationships these are people, again, we met at conferences. I think talent reputation, right, it’s important to get out there and continue to manage that. So those, those are a number of the reasons why we wanna get out to these conferences and why we think they’re important. But the measure of success, you’re right, for a data-driven guy, I wish I could put a specific number to it. Like, here’s the ROI from each of these conferences. It’s really difficult to. It’s really difficult to do, but I can tell you that, I do look back and, and aggregate those. I look at the management contracts we picked up, and I think of, “Okay, well, where did I meet these folks? And so what’s the average return?” And I can put a number to that. And I would tell you that in terms of the immediate return, what I’m looking for is if I can have three to five specific follow-up conversations, a result of that conference, then the trip was worth the cost. Ryan Embree: That’s great advice for young hospitality professionals out there. I mean, we have a great industry, and one of the coolest parts of it is you get to rub shoulders sometimes with those executives. So even those younger hospitality professionals that might be tuning in here, it’s a great piece of advice to when you can, obviously, try to get that exposure of networking and get out there because hospitality is certainly a big world, but it’s also a very small world, and you run into a lot of the same people. And again, this, just like you said, Charles, a lot of the stories, success stories, whether it be business relationships, some of those transactions could stem from sitting next to somebody at breakfast – Absolutely. On day two of a conference. Love to hear that advice, love to hear that those stay beneficial, because we love those. We’re hospitality people, right? We’re in that industry. Now, another thing you become kinda famous for your takeaways articles on LinkedIn. My advice would be to encourage anyone, definitely give Charles if you’re not already a follow, because you have some great insights and takeaways from some of the events that he goes to. So I’m gonna kind of put you on the spot here. If you had to do a takeaways article for the first half of 2026, maybe give us a couple points, and then if you could, maybe share some predictions. We’re hospitality people. We love to kind of predict, try to predict the future a little bit, so. Charles Oswald: Yeah. Well, maybe, maybe the biggest takeaway from the first half is that we’re not great in hospitality about predicting future. Ryan Embree: That’s a good one. Charles Oswald: So, as we rolled into 2026, there were a lot of folks that were saying it was gonna be, like, Groundhog Day, that we’re looking at flat, very modest, RevPar growth and expenses that, outpace, the top line. And I think what nobody saw coming was US demand growth in the first half of the year. Now part of this, I will tell you, if we look back in some panels, a year ago, I called part of this, which is I asked why is no one talking about the impact of the $30 billion increase in tax refunds that we’ll see, plus the real wage growth that’s happening, and what impact that could have on our industry? And, and a lot of people kind of poo-pooed and they said, “Well, you know, we don’t really know that the tax refunds are gonna be there. We don’t really know how those are gonna hit.” Okay. But we do. There was some, some mirroring it kinda like during the pandemic when you put money in people’s pockets, there were a lot of people that just went out and spent it. And so I did, I think that had a real impact on the, on the first half of the year. And then the other part that none of us saw coming, and I didn’t, was certainly there’d be a war in Iran and how the general global conflict can would affect the outbound travel case for the American traveler. So, that outbound travel, international outbound decelerated, right, while domestic leisure demand, stayed strong. So, that helped prop up the first half of the year. So there are some trends from the first half that I think will carry out to the second half. So for not getting in looking forward, I’d say that second half of the year, there’ll be more bifurcation. You know, we’re gonna see a continuing challenge to new supply growth, and we’re gonna continue to see labor costs rising, but at a bit of a decelerating rate. So if I were to expand a little bit on that, on the bifurcation, we’ve heard a lot of talk about the K-shaped economy. And really in that bifurcation, there’s some people talking about this hollowing in the middle class, and, and, and I think that’s actually very, very misrepresented. What’s actually happened is we’ve seen a growth generational wealth, over the course of the last 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And this is a long-term macro trend, okay? The fact is that there are fewer poor today, about a third less than there were, you know, 40, 50 years ago. There are few, fewer lower middle class, and no longer is the core middle class the largest classification of income in America. But according to the BLS, Bureau of Labor Statistics, it is actually now the upper middle class is the largest class, right? So people are moving up on this continuum, and they’re more wealthy. So when you start thinking about that, what does that affect on our industry? That’s why we’re seeing this interest in, towards experiential travel, towards the soft brands, towards luxury, and why upper upscale and luxury tiers have been outperforming. So I think we’ll continue to see that as we go through the end of the year. And the other story I think we’ll continue to see is that new supply, right? Man, the plan, I mean, there’s, like, you know, 10% supply growth planned. But what actually happens, is just a, you know, a fraction of a percent. And so, in there, the challenge, you know, debt isn’t the problem anymore. It’s more about equity and construction cost relative to the commercial real estate valuations,in interest rate market environment that we’re in today. Ryan Embree: Yeah, so you have a little bit tampered demand, or tampered, building construction because of those construction costs. And do not underestimate, again, the willingness and ability for people and wanting to travel and have experiences. I still think they even the younger generation, they’re getting some more money in their pockets, and the first thing that they’re wanting to do is plan a nice trip, right, before they go out and, and buy those expensive things that, which was, was typically would happen. Charles Oswald: Yeah, and I wanna just comment one thing though is we’ve talked a lot about economic resilience, and that resiliency definitely exists in the US, and it’s more resilient than a lot of folks probably though it was when you look back in time. However, some of that does seem to be breaking here, right? You know, you are seeing rise of credit card debt. You are seeing some increases in folks, particularly at the mid-scale and, and, and lower income classes defaulting on car payments and things like that. And so if you start to make a decision about, you know, do I travel or do I pay my, my car, that is going to affect the industry, you know, as we go forward. And, and that’s gonna play a little bit in that bifurcation that we were talking about. Those who are on the upper end have watched unreal growth for the last few years in their stock market portfolios. You know, they, they feel a little bit more free and, and open travel. Ryan Embree: Yeah, it’s interesting. You’re right. You know, we always talk about still prioritizing travel, but travel over things. But when tho- those things become, like you said, payments or car payments, then all of a sudden the priorities start to shift a little bit. So it’d be interesting to see how that continues in the second half of this year. Now, another topic we that you’re gonna hear at every single hospitality show, it’s a bingo card, is AI and technology. And you, and you actually speak a lot. I’ve seen you on panels speak a lot to it in, in your interviews. Where do you think the hospitality industry, which we’ve said typically is one to slowly adopt technology? Where do you think we are in this cycle of AI adoption? And then maybe you could zoom in a little bit into your organization and, and where you’ve prioritized that, or maybe stayed away from it. Charles Oswald: Maybe we kind of break that down into sounds like three or four areas, right? I think, yeah, it’s what’s the biggest impact today? What’s kinda happening now? And maybe where’s it going? Sure. And, uh, and how do we play into that as a management company, right? Yeah. So I guess there’s four ways. In terms of the biggest impact today, it’s for sure it’s been, it, it, it’s been in distribution, right? Uh, GEO and AEO are the new SEO. And so, um, uh, maybe what’s accelerated hospitality is entrance into AI because the customer was using it to search for hospitality, and then all of a sudden we woke up and said what – Ryan Embree: Great point. Charles Oswald: It’s not just about keywords, but how, how do we become the answer to the question they’re asking? And so that’s, uh, that’s certainly the biggest impact today is on the distribution side. I think what’s happening in progress, we’re starting to see more in the areas of revenue optimization and design, right? Like on, you know, when it comes to new hotel renovations and they and developments. And then the future, where’s it going? I think we’re gonna see AI more in our, more closely integrated into our business analytics, like and that’s gonna extend into labor scheduling and productivity. I think we’ll see it help us in energy management and procurement. Things like F&B menu engineering both from the creative standpoint and kinda marrying that with the math, right? Like, what the cost of plate is and what the customer’s actually buying. And and that’s really important. IAnd by the way, that’s a weak spot, I think in the industry. There are an awful lot of management companies that are not very good on food and beverage side. So at Aperture, what are we doing? First off, I would say we lean really heavily on our tech partners to adapt, adopt AI for their analytics or reporting insights. And today insights has become the real opportunity, right? I mean, if you ask your BI system, you know, it’s one thing for them to be able to pull a report or show you some side-by-side comparisons, but the insights, like, why is this happening? You know, you can tell me, me what my flow-through is, it’s great, but, like, what should it be if we had run according to all the budget metrics that, like, that we put out there? They’re, they’re weak on that side, at least to date. So I think that’s gonna be the next step is that is conveying those analytics and reports to insights. And so, we’re keenly working with technology solutions that they can implement in those ways, and digital marketing efforts that help us improve the distribution that we were talking about earlier, GEO and AEO. And from a practical day-to-day standpoint, you know, we’ve incorporated, cloud enterprise solutions in our daily work and our applications, like, you know, Excel and SharePoint, et cetera, like a lot of other companies have. But we got plenty of room, plenty of runway there when it comes to AI. Ryan Embree: Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. So, uh, every day, yeah. every hour, it feels like sometimes with these announcements. Um, but yeah, you, you mentioned something really, really fascinating at the top of that, the answer of, you know, I think the adoption cycle sometimes with technology and hospitality has been slow because we’ve tried to, sometime, “Hey, download our app,” right? We’re, we’re trying to get the customer to move with the technology that we want them to move into, and the ecosystem that, that, “Hey, you know, do this.” And now, what’s happening is we’re seeing the consumer move into these LLMs and, and AI search, and now hospitality’s kind of been like, “We have to catch up because this is where our customer is,” right? So maybe that does cause a little bit of, uh, acceleration. So, because that is the biggest thing that we’ve been hearing as well, is just AI visibility. There is just this, this fear of a couple years ago, it was the fear of doing anything and being like, “I’m not doing anything with AI and technology. Now it’s like, now I have. My biggest fear is keeping me up, is I’m not being found on AI, uh, search engines and LLMs.” Charles Oswald: Yeah, let me tell you, like, just a great example, I was traveling not long ago, to Chicago, and I had a trip to Nashville, and I was just curious. I just, I went to Google – Yeah. And said, “Hey, what are the, what’s the best hotel in Chicago?” And it gave me a list of sponsored results. So it was like, I don’t know, half a dozen or so hotels there. And it gave me a list of, like, you know, here’s what says, and there’s like 20 properties there, and there is, AAA and Forbes, and there was the map and so all this stuff, and I’m like, “Wow, there, there’s, like, you know, 60 best hotels in Chicago.” And so then I moved over, just out of curiosity, I asked, uh, Claude, “What’s the best hotel in Chicago?” Gave me one answer, named one hotel, this is the best. And it gave me a little honorable mention list of three properties underneath it. I thought, oh, my gosh. And then I did the same thing with Nashville. I get one answer – Yeah. And it’s honorable mentions. And it really started making me think, oh my gosh, like, like, if, if only one hotel is gonna come up with that, how do I make that money? And, uh, and who is this, who is this, um, generative AI trusting? And so, so, so we began to dive really deeply in that conversation about, like, when, where are these trusted resort returns coming from, and how do we influence that, right? How do we make sure we appear there? Ryan Embree: 100%. Yeah, that’s the, the next race right now is to try to figure that out. And that’s difficult. Charles Oswald: Kind of back up and just elaborate, just one more comment – Yeah. Is just that, that, like, in Google, I mean, it’s, sure, it’s trusted. I don’t think anybody says that you don’t, you don’t trust Google on those returns and the 60 properties that it’s sent, but – Right. It’s returning the results that it wants you to see, the search engine. Whereas Claude, ChatGPT, Grock, others, they’re returning the results that, as the consumer, I wanted to see. Ryan Embree: And that’s, and that’s the, I think that’s the difficult because it almost changes into a little bit 40 chess, because I might ask the same question, and based on my search experience, it could look at a different best hotel in Chicago than could be your best hotel in Chicago. Once you go down that. Yeah. Charles Oswald: Are you Going there for business, or is it a wedding, or is the soccer team? Yeah, right. And it, it might know the purpose. It might know lis – a little something about you. You’re exactly right. Ryan Embree: Well, uh, uh, listen, I’m gonna take us back before we get to, into that to rabbit hole and, and lose everybody there, because one of my, uh, one of the favorite parts of the conversation, and we’ve done, you know, now this, I think we’re, we’re over 200 episodes here, but one of the, one of my favorite parts, uh, places of our conversation, Charles, back when we first spoke, was hearing the origin story of aperture hotels and, and the name for it. And so, uh, I wanted just to revisit that for those who may have missed that episode. Can you share that story again and why this whole shift your perspective, which you can find on your LinkedIn, your website, everywhere, that mindset has really resonated, uh, with, so well with, um, hotel owners, investors, and has, has been an important part of your s – your company’s success. Charles Oswald: Oh, wow. Um, you know, thank you for, uh, for asking that question, uh, and, uh, and it’s a reminder and the flashback. You know, so, uh, so what is an aperture, first off, right? It’s, it, it’s, it’s in that, you know, that, that, that camera lens that allows light, right, to, to, to pass through, right? So, so it creates a clear, well-composed image. And so I think from a hospitality brand, um, that maps into some of our values. Um, you know, we talk about transparency and accountability. We talk about clarity and vision, right? Like, an owner sees a, a hotel’s position, um, uh, potential, and we can help capture it, right? We help focus, bring focus. Precision and control, you know, I, I think that helps, uh, convey into our views on process orientation across the enterprise and, you know, and consistent execution. One of our core values is about being actively curious, right? Like, how do you scratch beneath the, the surface and shine a light on, on what that is, right? And, you know, what can we do to, to make, you know, to reveal those, those, the, the hidden business potential? We think about, you know, when we’re walking into the hotel and, and, and we’re touring our, our properties and, and, and looking for those, um, those guest experience improvements, it’s like, how do we make this, uh, picture perfect for the customer who arrives, right? What that arrival experience, what are the first moments of truth? And so I think all of those things, that, that transparency of clarity, vision, precision control, uh, you know, picture perfect, uh, all these things, um, sort of play into that aperture name. But I’ll be honest, there was another part of this, uh, which is that, you know, there’s, like, 400 hotel management companies out there, uh, and there’s hundreds more that used to be. Finding an original name is admittedly difficult. <laugh> <laugh> Every name you can think of has been, uh, used. <laugh> Sure. Uh, we, we were fortunate, uh, to be able to find something that was original that didn’t, you know, pigeonhole us into something like, you know, calling ourselves, uh, Sunbelt Management or something like that. So, so, so that did work out well for us. Ryan Embree: Yeah. Well, I love it because, you know, you, you mentioned at the top that this was, you know, Aperture Hotels was really their origin story started during and during that COVID time, right? During and after that COVID time. And I think it was in those conversations, the companies and organizations that I spoke to that had a very clear North Star, a very clear direction of who they are and their culture during that time, because it was such a difficult time. So to have such a strong kind of name and you have all of those things, I’m sure that is, has been so beneficial for you as you continue to grow and scale, because you need that, right? You need something to kind of lean back onto and be kind of your Compass North, your North Star, however you wanna to phrase it. But I love to hear that. And like I said, it, it stuck with me all these years afterwards, so I wanted to touch on it again. And, um, I saw recently on LinkedIn that, uh, you and your team wrapped up a leadership conference in, uh, New Orleans. Tell us a little bit about that event and how, how instrumental the team has been, and also your, your success over at Aperture Hotels. Charles Oswald: Oh, that is. Well, yeah, that, that, that was a fun time. Uh, first off, getting together, getting our team together – Yeah. For that annual conference is my favorite part of the year really energizes me. Um, you know, I’m so grateful for, for, for, for the team that’s doing this work on the ground and, and the leadersh – uh, we have out there in the field. You know, I think often we talk about performance. We send around our balanced scorecard. We measure and we rank people and, and, uh, you know, we talk about process and so on. And that, and that’s, that’s an important part of the, uh, uh, of what we cover in the, uh, in, in our annual leadership co – uh, conference as well. But, um, but I think when you’re rubbing elbows, uh, you know, you’re in the same room with everybody. Uh, there’s, there’s a different level of, you know, preparation, focus, and curiosity, you know, team member bonding and relationship that happens. And, you know, and I love how in the aftermath of these conferences, we, you know, we hear about how, you know, the general manager, you know, in, you know, in the US West, it’s called the general manager in the US East, and they’re – Sure. They’re getting together and collaborating now on, on, on best practices and, and how they dealt with certain challenges maybe that are shared experiences that they’re having. So that’s where it happens, right? I mean, you get out there in a conference together like this where I think i- ideas get sharpened, uh, perspectives broadened. People learn, you know, here’s some insights, and they, uh, you know, share in their experiences. They challenge each other. And, uh, we, and, and we come out of it just, uh, winning together. And by the way, I should mention also, there’s some really great food, uh, so – Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah. <laugh> Sorry. New Orleans. Uh, I’m a big eater. <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah, that, that helps too. Uh, Charles Oswald: A few extra, but I’ve never missed one. <laugh> And, uh, New Orleans is a great place for someone to like me, that’s for sure. <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah. We, well, we talked about how quickly things are moving right now in hospitality, and it’s so important to kinda get everybody together in one place. And we’ve seen how you prioritize, obviously, the, the bigger hospitality events across hospitality. So sometimes to get that dialed in with your team, just so important. And great to hear that that continues to be. ‘Cause if you remember back in the day, we were hearing that that was gonna be the end of this, by the way. Everybody was gonna have these leadership conferences on Zoom, and everyone was gonna love it, and nobody was going anywhere. So, uh, love to see that that, that prediction didn’t come to pass. Now, you’re – Charles Oswald: Yeah, you know, the funny thing about that, Ryan, is – Sure. Is that we’re out there in hospitality on the sales front. We were telling our companies, our clients, why they all need to get together. And hospitality companies are like, “Well, but, but we’re gonna do it on Zoom.” <laugh> Ryan Embree: Right. Right, exactly. Right? We gotta practice what we preach a little bit Charles Oswald: Both Sides of our mouth, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and enjoying some of the hospitality, uh, that we provide every single day, right? So, so you’re headquartered in Atlanta, Charles, you’ve got. But the portfolio spans across the country, you mentioned it. Are there any particular markets that you’re seeing strong opportunities and maybe some that you’re cautiously maybe staying away from for a bit right now? Charles Oswald: Well, uh, first off, the Atlanta part. Um, right? I mean, we’re, we’re the transportation hub of the Southeast, but, uh, arguably the country and the world with the world’s biggest and busiest airport. So when we talk about, like, w- where we’re willing to go, we’ve got a competitive advantage from here in the, uh, in that we have more direct flights to more cities across the country and the globe than any other, an- anybody. Else, right? Uh, coming out of, uh, the world’s biggest and busiest airport. So, so that’s, uh, that’s, that’s really nice and not to mention there’s a, there’s certainly a lot of drive markets, uh, that are within four, four hours of, uh, of Atlanta. So, um, so yeah, that makes us pretty opportunistic when it comes to, uh, uh, hotel management assignments. You know, ideally, uh, you know, we’re looking, ideally we’re, we’re looking at, you know, those top 100 or so cities. Ideally, you know, we, we, we certainly have better presence in the eastern half of the US, but we do span from Florida beaches to coastal California. In terms of the type of markets that are, that are more ideal and better fit for us, you know, generally speaking, they’re, you know, a lot of the, the southern markets are, uh, you know, certainly performing well. They’re business friendly. We avoid union hostility, uh, where, whenever possible, right? Sure. And, um, you know, th- those are the type of markets where we’d wanna go. And in terms of, of the type of hotels, you know, again, I think leaning towards the bifurcation that we know exists in, uh, in the industry that kinda says, you know, you gotta be great at, uh, soft branding experiential properties, right? And some lifestyle assets. And, and so that we’re, we’re, we’re leaning that direction. And you see it in our pipeline. You know, so, so our pipeline includes, you know, includes today, uh, multiple Marriott, Hilton, soft branded assets, like, like Tribute and, you know, and Tapestry Autographs. We also have, uh, some brands like Compass by Margaritaville sitting in the pipeline, right? And, and independent. Um, so, so really cool, exciting places where we get to create our own brand, really, our own store – Yeah. Based off of the building that’s there. And all of those new development projects that we’re talking about have, um, they have a lot of credit. I mean, that’s the only way you can pull these off today is if you’re, if you’ve got historic tax credits, you know, so we’ve got that in multiple places and hundred plus year old buildings. It’s, you know, great stories to tell. Uh, we’ve got, uh, you know, tax increment financing, PIDs, we’ve got enterprise zone, we got the CIPLA, you know, many other different factors that have played into making a capital stat that actually works. Uh, and that’s the way to, you know, that’s, that’s the way we’re getting it done and, uh, on the new development side. Ryan Embree: Well, those are fun projects, let me tell you. Um, I, I, I’m sure to work on, because it’s like you said, I mean, you get to tell a story there. Um, sometimes there’s a story already ingrained with these historic buildings that then become a, a key foundational component of, uh, you know, what you’re building on, um, so to speak, and, you know, uh, literally and figuratively when, when it comes to your maybe digital story. So, yeah, very, very cool to see. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll be excited to watch, watch those come to, to life. I want to. We’re, we’re wrapping up here, Charles, but I always feel like it’s always my duty, you know, having the privilege to talk to leaders like you, try to just get as much inside advice as I can out of you during this time. Obviously, as a business owner, you know, starting a business never easy, so much vision, resilience, incredible amount of commitment, especially doing one where you started it during a historic time and around COVID, right? But looking back on your journey building Aperture, you know, what advice would you give maybe to the next generation of hospitality leaders? It doesn’t necessarily have to be about if someone’s wanting to build their own, uh, management company, but e- even just a hospitality professional just now today in 2026? Charles Oswald: That’s a good question. You know, some things that come to mind is, uh, it’s a one in whatever business you’re, you’re doing, if, if you’re trying to be entrepreneurial and you wanna be an owner, I’d say, you know, choose your partners carefully, right? If you’re coming up in the business, I’d say, um, master the numbers, you know, not just your gut. If you’re, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re in the hiring seat, uh, uh, as a, as a team leader, I would tell them to, um, make sure they treat people decisions as serious as the capital decisions, right? Very, very important. I think from a business development standpoint, uh, I say those guys that are trying to, you know, build a, a portfolio need to y – learn to, to read the deal and not just as an operation. I think young or old, we should embrace the tech shift. I couldn’t believe I, I have some college professor friends, I do some advisory work at several universities, and I listen to, uh, college professors and some students out there, uh, who are very, being very resilient, r- resistant to AI, talking bad about it, they view it as a threat. And, uh, I’m like, “Hey, guys, y’all need to know that we do employ people, employers are looking for those young folks to come out with some experience and exposure and learning, uh, you know, and, and, and to have some insights in how to, how, you know, we cannot adopt AI at our companies.” And, and, uh, you know, you’re doing an injustice if, uh, if you’re resisting tech shift. Uh, so, and lastly, I would say think about your reputation management, right? Like, like, protect your credibility with your owners, with your franchisors, like it’s capital, because it is. Ryan Embree: Great advice. Sound, sound about. We got. That was comprehensive. Thank you for, <laugh> thank you for sharing that. No, really appreciate it. Like I said, you know, uh, try to glean as much as I can out of these conversations and share it. Um, all great advice. Um, you know, hopefully we don’t have to wait three years next time to have you back on the podcast. Would, would love to catch up with you then, but who knows where, where you’ll be and, and the growth, uh, of Aperture Hotels. But what’s next? Like, as we wrap up today’s final question, kinda what’s your vision for the future as you look into the, this latter part of the half of the 2020s, right, for Aperture Hotels? Charles Oswald: Yeah, I think, um, being involved in a few developments is, is, you know, the one side. I’d say there’s just ongoing organic growth of, uh, taking on, on, uh, new management contracts, and they’ll probably mostly still be through, management company transitions as opposed to actual ownership transitions. And then, look, M&A is on the table, right? We, we’ve studied, uh, a few other small management companies that we can maybe, uh, acquire or merge in with. And I think that’s, yeah, I, I’m continuing to be open to that, uh, that conversation and, and, uh, uh, I hope to probably do just one. Uh, I don’t think multiple, but, but, but probably just one that’s really the right fit and the right strategic play. Ryan Embree: Awesome. Well, we’re excited. It’s been cool to watch your journey and aperture hotels from when we first spoke with you to here we are now and wish you nothing but success. So thank you so much, um, for taking the time to, to spend some time with my, myself as well as our sweet spot listeners, Charles. Charles Oswald: Yeah. Thank you. It’s great chatting. I appreciate it, Ryan. Ryan Embree: alright. Thanks, everyone. We’ll talk to you next time on The SuiteSpot. To join our loyalty program, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Suite Spot is produced by Travel Media Group. Our editor is Brandon Bell with cover art by Bary Gordon. I’m your host, Ryan Embree, and we hope you enjoyed your stay.

214 – Hotel Data Conference 2026: Key Takeaways

213 – TMG Hospitality Trailblazers: Emma Shaybani

Vice President of Marketing at HEI Hotels & Resorts, Emma Shaybani, joins the Suite Spot to discuss the upcoming 2026 Digital Travel Summit taking place in Orlando, Florida on September 28-29 and how the HEI brand is leveraging social media, artificial intelligence, technology, and online guest feedback to better shape and optimize the traveler journey. Tune in now and the Suite Spot looks forward to seeing you at the conference next month! Ryan Embree: Welcome to Suite Spot, where hoteliers check in and we check out what’s trending in hotel marketing. I’m your host, Ryan Embree. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Suite Spot. This is your host, as always, Ryan Embree. Very excited for our next guest in an edition of our TMG Hospitality Trailbazer series to set the table. This is that series again with conversations with people, organizations, and companies within the hospitality industry that are paving a path forward. I’m so excited for our next guest. And it also really seconds as a preview for the Digital Travel Summit happening in Orlando in September. My guest, this will be the first of a few times that we’re gonna be together. Emma Shaybani, VP of Marketing at HEI Hotels and Resorts. Emma, thank you so much for joining me on The Suite Spot. Emma Shaybani: Thank you for having me. Ryan Embree: Yeah, we’re excited. So we’re gonna talk about that Digital Travel Summit event. We were talking off camera. It’s a powerhouse event. Can’t wait. Some big players within the travel industry gonna be there. But before we do that, we’d love to introduce you to our Suite Spot audience. Maybe love learning about everybody’s kinda hospitality journey that led you to your role over there at HEI Hotel and Resorts. Emma Shaybani: Yeah, it’s a bit of an unconventional journey, I suppose. So, I moved from England, and I moved from England to Connecticut, and I was really looking for my next opportunity. I’d not worked in hospitality before. I’d worked actually for CBS back in London. I had a couple of my own businesses, so hotels weren’t necessarily part of my original plan. But I, I joined HEI actually in a reputation management role. And I think at the time, they just knew that they needed somebody to look after reputation management, but they weren’t exactly sure what I would be doing. So it started off really as me in a room responding to guest reviews. So it, it didn’t take too long for us to all realize that probably wasn’t the best use of my time. So I kinda went to my boss at the time, Brian, with a plan and I was like, “Hey, you know, it’s hard for me to, to respond to these reviews when I’m not at the property. I don’t know what’s happened. You know, really, we should empower the teams at the hotels to be responding to these reviews. And, you know, really, I can be there as kind of a, you know, backup support and making sure that we are responding.” Because, you know, the hotel teams know the guest experience the best. And I was really focusing then on monitoring the trends, opportunities, and that’s when I noticed that the same thing was kind of happening with social media. We had all these accounts. They weren’t necessarily active. So we took this kind of a similar approach with social media. And then from there, the role just kind of kept evolving. So every time we kind of solved one challenge, we’d notice something else that we could then tackle. Back then, we had 20-27 hotels, I think it was. And now today we’ve grown the team. There’s quite a few of us now, over 100 hotels, multiple brands. So it’s been pretty incredible, honestly, to, to grow alongside the company. And I remember back in the day, my biggest concern was trying to memorize these 27 hotels, and now somehow I seem to manage with a hundred and something. Ryan Embree: We love the unconventional journey in hospitality and kinda falling into it. But also, a lot of people we find fall in love with hospitality. And that’s why you hear about people maybe starting kind of in, you know, I was a bellman when I first started at a hotel and front desk agents, F&B, and then all of a sudden, here they are 30 years later into a career that they absolutely love. And your foundation actually mirrors a lot of what the Suite Spot is. We started as a digital marketing podcast preaching to hoteliers about the importance of things like managing your reputation, social media strategy, which we’re gonna get into in this conversation a little bit, because it is a constantly evolving and so ever important because those are places that can be touched prior to a guest arrival and have a real impact on bookings and the guest experience. But before we get into that, I want, I do wanna start about talking about that event, the Digital Travel Summit that both of you will have the pleasure of attending down there in Orlando at September 28th and 29th. Personally, could not be more excited for this event, bringing some of the travel industry’s biggest and brightest together in a very intimate setting, very excited about it. What are you most looking forward to about this event? And maybe what caught your eye and it drew you initially to this Digital travel Summit? Emma Shaybani: I think what immediately caught my attention was that it was an event that was dedicated solely to digital marketing as a whole. I think, while, while AI is, is transforming things pretty rapidly, and I think this was nice because it was a conference that recognizes digital marketing is so much broader than just AI. And we still have to think about search, paid media, websites, all of these things and how those pieces work together to essentially drive demand. So I saw that and then also I’m looking forward to seeing some of our friends that are there, some of the industry leaders that are talking. I think there was one of the sessions, a keynote that’s on event-driven travel, which is something that we’re investing heavily in at HEI, you know, things like concerts, festivals, major conventions. A lot of my team’s focus at the moment is setting up things like landing pages, targeted offers to really kind of take advantage of those experiences. ‘Cause we all saw what happened, with the Taylor Swift effect a few months ago. Ryan Embree: 100%. Emma Shaybani: Exactly. So I think that’s a really, a lot of the topics throughout the event are really on trend and really useful. So I think it’s, it’ll be good to bring everybody together. We’re all solving similar challenges, so that hopefully, you know, we can come away with some practical ideas that myself and the team can implement when we’re back in the office. Ryan Embree: Yeah, 100%. And to piggyback on that Taylor Swift effect, you got the World Cup that just happened this summer. You got the Olympics in LA in a couple more years. So no shortage of events coming to domestic US. Concerts are gonna continue to pop up. Sporting events across generations, younger travelers, but across generations still prioritizing those experiences at the forefront. And I think you’re absolutely right, Emma. It’s a very comprehensive event. It’s funny, back in the day when we started first talking about, you know, this to hoteliers with, with digital marketing, sometimes social media review responses, you, like you talked about in your story, it fell on the youngest person at the hotel, right? So who’s the youngest, uh, front desk agent? They probably know the best about social media. Now as digital marketers, we kinda cringe thinking about that. We put our whole stake of reputation on someone that we really didn’t train a hotel’s voice or anything like that. So it really has evolved. And I love your perspective on where we are with AI because you think about this emerging technology. Well, social media a couple decades ago was right there in that spot, and now it’s created roles within social media. So it’ll be interesting to get everybody in like you said, that room to, with the same challenges, trends, what are you seeing? And speaking of panels, I’ll have the privilege and pleasure of moderating a powerhouse keynote panel with you involved, Emma, called Building AI-Ready Marketing Teams: Knowing When to Automate and When to Go Human. For our Suite Spot audience, give us maybe a little bit of sneak peek of a preview on your thoughts on that topic. Emma Shaybani: I think, you know, I always encourage the team to really ask themselves kind of simple questions, right, when it comes to our use of AI, is if, like, if this task disappeared tomorrow, would anyone notice, right? And if the answer is no, then we can probably find a way to automate that, you know? And I also think there’s a question of, is there value in the thinking or is there value in the typing? Because we do spend a lot of our time producing reports, producing presentations. And really, the value of having humans is the strategy, the judgment, the relationship building, and also the creativity. So we wanna make sure that, you know, humans are also, we’re remaining in charge of the decisions, but can we become more efficient by our use of AI? And we kind of split. We do something called the rule of 80/20, which is AI can get us about 80% of the way there to the finish line, right? It can gather data. It can generate drafts, mock-ups, website copy, summarize reports, but then it’s really like that final 20%, which is gonna create the real value. Human judgment, as I said, creativity, empathy. That’s where we need the human, human touch. And I think that’s really important when it comes to just overall guest experience as well, because while we’re using AI to get in front of guests, we’re trying to be the most visible or the top on Google or, you know, any of, any of. We really want maximum visibility, right, across all these channels. But when we get, when people get to the property, they want a human experience. I think people still very much want a human experience. So we have to make sure that what we’re portraying online is an extension of this experience that happens on property. So I think it’s a mix. I really do. Ryan Embree: It gets a little bit more complicated within hospitality. Other industries, it might be easier to automate all the way through, where in hospitality, there does need to be that human touch because of what, exactly what you just said, Emma, right? Like, people want that connection. They want that exper – That’s why we travel, right? It’s not that there might, might be some places where you can completely disconnect from people, but most of the time, they wanna experience. That’s why they’re getting out. That’s why they’re going to new places and having new opportunities to explore cities and locations that they haven’t before, and they wanna, they wanna feel that. So it is interesting to see that. You know, I’ve, I’ve said it on this podcast and we’ll probably say it again. The GM of the next few years might look a lot closer to what it did 20 or 30 years ago before all of those tasks were put on their plate and all of a sudden they had to sit behind a computer for 80% of their time and do spreadsheets and other things that required our time. Now they can maybe get back to the heart, which will be very interesting to see that shift in hospitality. Excited to explore it in that keynote panel that, again, is gonna feature some major brands alongside, travel industry brands alongside Emma here. So hope our Suite Spot listeners will look into that event, the Digital Travel Summit, and join us. I wanna shift back to, well, actually, I wanna talk about AI and, and the guest experience a little bit more. A few years back, you were a featured columnist in Hotel News Now, where you wrote that managing the guest experience in hotels begins earlier than ever. Now, this was a couple years ago. We’re getting news almost on a weekly basis with, with the cadence of AI and technology. Talk to us a little bit about your thoughts on how, if at all, that’s changed with the emergence of AI traveler search. Emma Shaybani: Yeah, I actually think the, the idea is probably more relevant today than it was when I wrote that article a couple years ago. I think the guest experience no longer begins when someone walks through the hotel doors, right? It starts the moment they have that idea and start dreaming of a trip or a destination. I think today, obviously, a lot of travelers are using AI and Googles to really help them to decide where to stay, where to go, what to do. It’s great. I use it myself, right? You can go through so much more data, so many more options, and it just kind of speeds up the entire trip planning process. But what it means is that our digital presence really is, more importantly than ever, an extension of the actual guest experience itself when they get to the property. You know, AI kind of just, just changed how guests discover us, but what really isn’t changing, as I kind of said before, is, is what they expect when they arrive. I think it’s actually raising the bar in many instances, because we’re getting the information to the traveler through AI or through Google, and we’re actually, we’re creating more personalized recommendations. We’re getting them more information than ever, and we’re setting these kind of real clear expectations of this is what you can expect when you arrive. So we have to make sure that the in-guest experience really, like, delivers on that promise when, when they get there. But for me, I think that’s where hospitality really still wins, because technology can, we can inspire people to travel, to book a stay, but people create memories, they wanna create memories on property that they’ll take home. And if we’ve promised a really great experience online, you know, the front desk, the food and beverage, housekeeping, every interaction throughout that stay is really gonna, like, enforce that expectation that we’ve set. So I think it, you know, AI is a tool to enhance hospitality. I think it replaces it. And I think it’s just kind of, trying to really seamlessly marry those two things together, so that we’re setting expectations correctly, but then we’re also delivering on real, incredible real life experiences. Ryan Embree: 100%. Yeah, personalization, a goal and objective that hospitality has been in after, I mean, for a decade now. We are closer than ever with as much data as we have right now, and that’s why I think a lot of hoteliers, brands, management companies are really going after that data and really trying to figure out a way, how can AI help me? All this data that I’m collecting from this guest make a more personalized experience and enhance, like you said, Emma, the guest experience. But at the core of it, I remember. I mean, I remember when you go to a TripAdvisor for a hotel and you keep, you scroll through the reviews and you see someone’s name mentioned at the front desk over and over again, “Emma at the front desk was amazing. Emma did this. Emma did that.” And then you come in and you’re greeted by Emma and you’re like, “I, it’s like I know you already, right? Like, it, that is such a cool experience and it elevates that. And I think that is in practice what I think these LLMs hopefully will have for a guest on the horizon. I think it does raise the bar, what you’re saying, Emma, because we want our guests to walk through those doors and know us as intimately as the front desk agent that they’ve maybe read three or four reviews about. So really exciting to kind of see and have certainly seen it implemented that elevation of guest service through HEI and resorts. It’s award season and obviously the accolades keep rolling in for your portfolio. Recognition from Conde Nast, Cvent, Travel and Leisure. Congratulations first off to you and your team. But from a reputation management, I mean, that’s your origin story, right, with HEI and Hotel and Resorts. How do you leverage these to kind of win more business? And how critical is it in today’s landscape to have a defined reputation management strategy more than kind of where you started maybe just responding to the reviews? Emma Shaybani: Thank you. Yeah, the awards like this are really meaningful, I think, to everybody because they’re really a reflection of the teams that are delivering those exceptional guest experiences every single day. I think behind these recognitions is the front desk associates, the housekeepers, engineers, servers, people who are creating these memories and these memorable stays. So I think it’s really important to celebrate that, which is why we really put an emphasis on promoting when we do win these awards. I think from a marketing perspective, these awards really serve as kind of a very powerful third-party validation. We spend a lot of time, telling guests what they can expect from our hotels, through our websites, our social media, photography. But these awards from Conde Nast or Travel and Leisure really, like, reinforce essentially that that promise that we’re making is real and help really allow us to build trust with a guest before they’ve not before they’ve even booked. And I definitely think it can be the deciding factor, right? If someone’s, you know, looking in the several hotels in the same market that they’re considering, it does help kind of validate that our hotels are a top choice in the market. I think on the reputation management side, it’s funny because back then it really was a case of, okay, we’ve just got to respond to these reviews. The brands are telling us, we’ve got to respond to anything under a three-star, and we have to do it within 48 hours. And I think it’s become so much more than that, and it’s, it’s so much more critical now because it’s no longer just about having a high rating on the different review sites. Guest reviews, I think, are really influencing how AI-powered search tools and large language models understand and recommend hotels. There’s been studies on it, we’re seeing it ourselves. Every review essentially creates this kind of digital story of the property, and then that story gets shared, right, from whether it’s on ChatGPT, whether it’s on Google, iit’s obviously very visible. I also think reviews are really, like, one of the few opportunities that we have to publicly demonstrate how we respond to feedback. You know, whether it’s thanking someone that they’ve had, you know, for a great stay or we’re addressing concerns. These responses, I think, allow us to show that we’re, you know, we’re open to feedback. We care and that we’re committed to kind of continuously improving, um, the guest experience. But I think all these things, ultimately, awards, reputation management, they’re all working hand in hand at the moment to ensure, again, we’re, people are getting credible information, and then also that they’re making informed decisions when they book. Ryan Embree: Yeah, what an opportunity to showcase the level of service that you’re gonna experience at a hotel than to publicly kinda display that through reviews and review response, right? You know, as it’s really human nature sometimes, I think unfortunately, that will go. Travel is stressful, right? Things happen in travel. We talked that there were a couple missed flights when we were trying to plan this out, right? How stressful is that? Like, so if you see that, sometimes a guest is a traveler, you sometimes have to put yourself in that, “Well, what is the worst case scenario?” So you try to look maybe for that one-star review. And if you see that empathetic voice on the other side of someone that genuinely has an authentic feeling of service-oriented response, man, the impact on that can really, really make the difference, and be maybe that final little push that has that comfort level, that trust that you talked about. I think that’s a great word right now, is we’re just looking that I trust that this hotel’s gonna take care of me, my family, if I’m traveling, my family, to make this experience the best it can. So 100% agree with you. That is something we preach all the time on this podcast. Social media, on the other end, plays a huge role in reputation management, and very comprehensive. What are your thoughts on what hoteliers should be prioritizing in the social media space right now, which is ever-evolving? Emma Shaybani: Yeah. I think the biggest thing is the shift we’ve seen, especially with platforms like Instagram and TikTok, is the priority is now content, and kind of not over-complicating social media as a whole. I think we talk a lot of time, talking about algorithms and platforms, but at the end of the day, if we don’t have compelling content, our strategy isn’t gonna get us very far. I think what I’ve seen a lot is that hotels will invest heavily in the social media management, but they’re not investing as heavily into the content itself. And we’ve spoken to a number of agencies and worked with different ones over the years, and a lot of them have fairly significant price tags to manage social media accounts, which I understand, right? Platforms like TikTok take a ton of time to create and produce. But these agencies, they’re, you know, they’re typically posting content, they’re doing community management, but they’re not necessarily creating the photography, the video, the reels, and influencer partnerships that are really the things that are gonna fuel engagement. So I think what we’ve seen is that without a strong pipeline of content, we’re just repurposing the same assets over and over again. So we’ve shifted a lot and it’s really about finding the right balance. So having a reliable content partner that can help create some consistency, and then filling in the gaps with influencers and creators, that can help, capture authentic moments and, and produce those reels. Doing those two things together work really well, but I really do think it’s now it’s time to start and really investing into content. Just be – everyone gets so fatigued, right? You just scrolling all the time. And then when people have seen that picture, they’re like, “Okay, I’m gonna scroll to, scroll to the next one.” And a lot of the time, we’re not just producing. I think everybody really used to think of it as, like, okay, we produce content for the website and the brand websites, and then we have content for social media, which is different. And it doesn’t actually have to be different anymore. You know, great content really powers everything. We can use that same photography or same social content to really strengthen our website. It really helps improve paid advertising performance. So, we can use it in our email campaigns, even on our OTA listings as well. So it’s kind of trying to get everyone to understand that that one investment can really help us deliver value across our entire marketing ecosystem. And it’s funny because it’s always the thing that everyone tries to cut from the budget is the photography aspect. We haven’t been renovated. We don’t need a photo shoot. There’s still things we can do, right? There’s still, there’s still new content to be, to be taken. So I think that’s where we’re focusing a lot of our time is content over the management piece. Ryan Embree: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, quality of content, I mean, the landscape has changed as far as the competitive forces, right? Now, back in the day when, when social media first, it was only anyone that you followed, right? You were only competing against those pages that that particular user was following. Now, a majority of time spent for a social media user is in explore pages, and a lot of accounts that they’re in. It’s more interest-based than follow base. You rarely see the things that you follow unless you’re engaging with it frequently. So the competitive nature of that, and you think how quickly. I mean, next time you’re in front of your phone, any of our listeners, how quickly your thumb is swiping, it’s a lot quicker than it was a decade ago, and how much your brain is actually giving that attention, that attention span has been shrinking. So quality of content, it has to be at a high level. And, and you’re absolutely right, Emma. We’ve seen a lot of hoteliers maybe not give the necessary time attention, whether it be time investment or capital investment into that. And it’s not enough just to be there anymore. I think that’s where we were maybe a decade ago. If you’re in the arena, you’ve got a shot. Now the bar is being raised, in that regard. So marketing, what a fun position. Always something going on, right? Something to celebrate. You got projects that you’re working on, announcements, try to make as much noise as possible. Any particular projects right now, Emma, that you’re particularly fired up about that you’re working, you and your team are working on? Emma Shaybani: Yeah. I think there’s a few things, because everything’s just changing so rapidly at the moment. So it’s actually like a fun, I think it’s a fun time. It’s stressful, but it’s a fun time to be a marketer. But I think the first thing is websites, because I think things have, like, especially where we’re able, we have obviously independent hotels, and we also have some branded assets that have vanity websites. And I think how that trend is also shifting, because for years, the trend was to have, like, these minimal content websites. You didn’t have a lot of copy, massive imagery. But now, obviously, with the shift in AI search, the websites have to be kind of richer, more informative, and actually have some genuinely helpful content. Things like destination guides, and FAQs, and all these different things, which is now kind of shaping a lot of our future designs on what these websites look like. So it’s kind of like we’ve kind of gone back a little bit. And so I think that’s kind of, it’s exciting to test a lot of that and really start to kind of just a lot of it’s testing, just really kind of getting in the weeds and just trying different things. I think another thing that we’re excited about, and we’ve got a lot of projects on the go is video. Again, I think video always used to be one of these nice-to-have pieces, but now it’s becoming a must-have because people want, you know, again, people are used to video content, short-form video content. So we’re implementing that on websites and in emails. But we’re also starting to have a lot more fun with our creative. I think a great example is we have an asset in Nashville called Waymore’s, and it’s a fun hotel. It’s in East Nashville, and we just produced this video that really is probably a little bit out of the box, but it really leans into the personality of the hotel and kind of the spirit of Nashville. And it’s definitely catches people’s eyes. We’re, we’re running it on social, we’re running it on emails, and we’ve seen a real uptick in people engaging with it. So I think it’s fun to kind of work on these more exciting videos, exciting content. And then my other big project right now is building what we’ve launched earlier this year called LoyalKey, which is our independent loyalty program for our HEI independent hotels. We haven’t done that before. It was something new that we wanted to try. And it’s an opportunity that really allows us to kind of bring together our. We have some really one of a kind independent assets. And we wanted to create kind of like a shared loyalty experience while still, like, maintaining what kind of keeps each hotel special. And it really gives us the ability to leverage the guests at each of those hotels and connect them to, if you’re interested in one independent asset, you might be interested in another one. So it’s giving these hotels real opportunity to kind of co-market, and at the same time, build this loyalty brand. So it’s been, it’s been a learning experience, to kind of build that from the ground up. But it’s fun. Ryan Embree: What a project. An opportunity, again, for personalization. You get some more of that guest data within loyalty programs, and all of a sudden, personalization starts to really blossom there, especially in the independent hotel space where you can do some really, really cool things. So, and just to piggyback on your video comment, if you don’t believe, Emma, as far as how important video is, go through, again, your social media feed. See how long you’re scrolling on each one, but also see how many times you’re seeing a still image now. I mean, it is surprising now when I go through my feed that I rarely come across just a still image. Most of them are going to be, whether it’s a GIF or some sort of, uh, short form video, most of the content that we are consuming now is not going to be a still image. So just going where the trends are, and yeah, it’s funny you mentioned that about that East Nashville property. You know, we work with hotels in their social media. And one of the videos that went viral on this particular hotel partner’s account was that they filmed High School Musical Two at the property, right? And it was kind of like this produced Zac Efron in there, and it exploded. And it was, like, probably something that we didn’t think was gonna get that much traction, but it was fun. People engaged with it. People loved it, especially those, millennials that grew up with that. And it became kind of a staple of that property and just a way to share the story of that property. So really cool examples there. And that creative side that’s the fun part of social media. So you mentioned 100 plus properties, so this might be a little bit tough for you, but I’m gonna put you on the spot here, Emma. I’m gonna do some rapid fire questions to get to know you and the HEI Hotel and Resorts portfolio a little better. So what is one of your favorite views at a property, HEI Hotel and Resort property? Emma Shaybani: I would say probably Hyatt Regency, Jersey City. So I had actually never been to Jersey City, but I was astounded by the, when I went, the views of Manhattan. ‘Cause it’s great, you know, when you’re in Manhattan, you’re like, “Oh, this is amazing.” Like – Yeah. But when you’re actually looking at it from across the water, it’s incredible. So probably that one. And we also have another, actually, another Times Square view. We have Renaissance Times Square that has this really cool bar that overlooks, like, the whole of Times Square. And it’s just like, incredible. I could sit there and watch that for hours. So it’s, it’s probably the New York views for me. Ryan Embree: Yeah. And those are hard to beat. Being in New York a couple months, same place up on a rooftop. I mean there’s not a lot that beats that. So what about a favorite fun fact about one of your properties? Emma Shaybani: Oh, I really like, it’s my favorite thing to do is always research or ask the team, like, what’s the craziest story about this hotel when I go? I love all, like, the historical facts, like, the ghost stories. So probably the Liberty in Boston, it used to be the Charles Street Jail. And today, I just love that, like, you’re sitting in there having a cocktail and there’s still, like, the, the doors and the window bars. And it just, that’s really fun. We also have The Cavalier, which has hosted, like, 10 presidents, Frank Sinatra. There’s definitely some secrets in that hotel. And I love that they play into it. They have a lot of, like, historical facts on the wall. So it kind of becomes, like, I don’t know, it’s like a fact-finding mission when you’re there. Ryan Embree: Yeah. I love that. It’s funny. You think about in maybe 100 or 200 years, which of those structures might be hotels in the future, right? Think that there’s a jail there. I’ve heard stories about, yeah, this used to be a bank and everything. Thing and now it’s a hotel. Like that’s the best part about hospitality, right? We can turn almost anything into a hotel. So, what about favorite signature dish at one of your properties, Emma? Emma Shaybani: I really like the steak tartar at the J in San Francisco. Served at the third floor and it’s just one of those, it’s just one of those dishes that I have to have, like I can not be hungry and I’ll still order it because I need to have it. Cause I don’t know when the next time I’m going back, but no, it’s kind of got like, it’s got like a Japanese twist on steak tartar, which is, it’s delicious. Ryan Embree: Very nice. Coast to coast, Emma, I like it. This really shows the breadth of the portfolio you’re working with over there. Last ones, either favorite piece of art at one of your properties or a favorite amenity at one of your properties? We can do both. Emma Shaybani: Well, we have a very, I think a pretty unique portfolio with every hotel kind of has a unique amenity. But I think the Live at the Sunrose, which is at our Sunrose property in West Hollywood, has this really cool intimate live music venue inside the hotel. And like you, just because it’s in West Hollywood, you just don’t know who’s gonna turn up, start singing. I think, like, J-Lo was there. It’s just, like – Oh, wow. It’s just fun. Like she’ll just get up and start singing. So I feel like that’s like a really cool little just addition, right? Like if a guest is staying and that’s all happening, it just really brings a lot of, a lot of energy to the, to the hotel. Ryan Embree: Well, and some great opportunity for content. You wanna talk about the perfect social media video? Emma Shaybani: I have no problems. Ryan Embree: Jennifer Lopez, right, singing at one of your hotels. Awesome. Well, you know, it’s always. I’ve done almost, well, over 200 episodes. I always feel like it’s my duty to my Suite Spot listeners when we have incredible industry influencers and leaders. And Emma, you were just recently named a top 100 marketer as part of the 2026 On Conferences Icon Awards. I always feel like I try to just get as much knowledge and tips and best practices from my guests as I can in the time that I have you here. So, what would be one piece of advice that you might share with hospitality marketers in our Suite Spot audience right now? Emma Shaybani: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is, and I tell my team this a lot, is don’t be afraid to test. I think one of the realities is that there’s a lot of pressure to kind of always deliver positive results to owners, asset managers, and leadership teams really naturally want kind of every campaign to be successful. But the reality is, if every campaign that we do succeeds, we’re probably not pushing the boundaries or trying enough things. You know, I think with any of, with any of the, the campaigns that we run, I think the best marketers aren’t really the ones that never fail. It’s the ones that learn the fastest. So I think it’s completely okay that every campaign or every test that we do isn’t always going to work. And that’s totally fine. I think it’s important to then explain, why we’re making a recommendation, why it worked, and the adjustments that we made when it didn’t work or if it did work. So I think it’s really just owning the, not being afraid to really own the outcome, good or bad, but really just, just test as many things as you can. I think it’s funny. One of the things I always think about is, it was like with email marketing, everyone said you had to send it at, like, 11:00 AM on a Tuesday or a Thursday. And everyone’s just taken that as gospel for so many years. And the other week, I think one of my team was like, “Oh, I made a mistake and sent it on a Sunday.” And I was like, “What, like, what happened?” And he’s like, “Well, I got the highest open rates that we’ve ever had.” And I was like, “Well, there you go. You’ve got to try these things. Don’t just keep doing the same thing. It’s not a big deal. If we send an email campaign on a Sunday, okay, we get a lower click rate. Oh, you know, it doesn’t matter. We can go back. The next one, we do something different.” But it worked. So you never really know what’s gonna work until you try. Ryan Embree: Yeah, bit of an unintentional test there, but turned out the right way. And as you mentioned, Emma, some of the biggest learning lessons can come out of those failures. And we’ve certainly heard some examples and stories on this podcast of industry leaders and professionals that some of their greatest success kind of started at maybe a moment of failure for them personally. So I think awesome advice. I appreciate that. Again, congratulations, on that recognition there. As we wrap up, Emma, we always like to end our episodes kinda looking ahead, right? We’re looking forward to the Digital Travel Summit, like I said, in September. But from a marketing perspective, Emma, what’s your vision for the future of HEI Hotel and Resorts? Emma Shaybani: Yeah, I’m really excited where we’re heading. I think over the last few years, we’ve seen some incredible growth, especially to kind of our lifestyle and independent hotel portfolio. And I think that is rewarding for the team because there’s so much freedom on the marketing side that comes with that. I think I’m just overall excited to, with the continued evolution of marketing within hospitality. As I said, it’s a stressful time, but it’s kind of a fun time. Because there’s a lot of things to try and work with. When I started my career, marketing was really viewed as a support function and today it feels a lot more integrated. And it is a driver of revenue and business performance, whether it’s AI, digital distribution, loyalty, reputation management. Marketing’s kind of influencing now every stage of the guest journey. And it’s nice to have a seat at the table, kind of alongside sales and revenue management and really be part of the bigger conversations that I think historically marketing was kind of seen as secondary to. So I think for us, looking ahead, we’re just gonna keep pushing, pushing, trying to push boundaries, try a lot of new technology, especially where it’s gonna add value. And as I mentioned, continue investing in things like creativity and content. And at the same time, try and not lose sight of what makes hospitality special, which is the people. Ryan Embree: Certainly a great opportunity to practice your advice, Emma. Use the testing waters and sandbox as much as you can. Exciting to see, because again, it’s evolving so quickly. It feels like almost every single day we’re getting some news out there. So we will continue to look to you and other industry leaders for what’s next in hospitality marketing. Emma, thank you so much. It was a super comprehensive episode. Any final thoughts today? Emma Shaybani: No, thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure, and I’m looking forward to seeing everyone in Orlando at the conference. Ryan Embree: Yeah, excited as well. Thank you so much, Emma, for your time. We will let you get back to it, all the exciting things you have over there at HEI Hotels and Resorts. And thank you, the Suite Spot listener for joining us today. We will talk to you next time on The Suite Spot. To join our loyalty program, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Suite Spot is produced by Travel Media Group. Our editor is Brandon Bell with cover art by Bary Gordon. I’m your host, Ryan Embree, and we hope you enjoyed your stay.

212 – Independent Hotel Show Series: Staypineapple Hotels Inc.

With just a little over a month away from the 2026 Independent Hotel Show Miami taking place, special guest and President of Staypineapple Hotels Inc., Dina Belon, joins the Suite Spot to discuss the Stayepineapple brand, the independent hotel industry, and what she is looking forward to from IHS Miami 2026! Ryan Embree: Welcome to Suite Spot, where hoteliers check in and we check out what’s trending in hotel marketing. I’m your host, Ryan Embree. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Suite Spot. This is your host, Ryan Embree. Back for another edition of season two of our independent hotel show series, where we are getting geared up and ready for that annual tradition down in Miami Beach at the Independent Hotel Show. We cannot wait. We’re gonna talk a little bit about it with our guests. We actually met for the first time in person last year at this event. We’re able to spend some time with her. Dina Belon, president at Staypineapple Hotels. Dina, thank you so much for joining me back on The Suite Spot. Dina Belon: Oh, thank you so much for inviting me, Ryan. This is amazing. I’m so excited. We had such a good time in Miami last year, it was a blast and, uh, talking to you felt like I was talking to a friend. Ryan Embree: Well, I appreciate it. I feel the same. Just honored to be speaking with you here. And I can’t believe we’re here. It’s we’re just months away from the Independent Hotel Show. It’s gonna be bigger, better than ever. We’re excited about it. We’re gonna talk about it. But we did have you on for the first time, so we had the opportunity. Usually, I start these episodes by a little bit of a background and kind of an introduction, but I’m gonna start a little unorthodox today. There was a post that I saw on LinkedIn, which by the way, for our Suite Spot listeners, make sure you say, uh, you follow Staypineapple Hotels and Dina. Great follows on LinkedIn. But there’s an, an article called Everything Staypineapple Hotels Dina Belon Does in a Day. And I thought that was such a cool and creative idea and concept. Talk to us a little bit about how that idea originated and give us a day in life. What is it like to be Dina Belon? Dina Belon: Well, I tried to be very honest. Hopefully it was fun too. I, there’s a lot of humor in my day, and so hopefully that came across. Um, the magazine, uh, that’s a local magazine here in, uh, east, the east side of Seattle and Bellevue and Kirkland area of Washington does those highlights of leaders in the area, um, on a regular basis. So it was fun, uh, a little stressful because you had to, like, take photographs and, you know, kind of just walk through your day. Um, I loved, though, really integrating my pets, because they’re a big part of my life. And so it started off with Molly waking me up at 5:45, which is actually what she does every morning. About 15 minutes before my alarm goes off, my little kitty cat starts yelling at me about wanting water. Um, so yeah, all the way until, you know, 8:00 at night and a lovely glass of wine with my husband. And all the shenanigans in the middle. Ryan Embree: Yeah. And I think it’s so cool because I think it, you know, we obviously work in the people business, right? In hospitality. Uh, we host people from all over the world, all different walks of life. Um, but to see, you know, sometimes, uh, I think right now, especially right now, right, when there’s all this talk of AI and technology and stuff like that, it’s really refreshing to see our industry leaders. And I get that. I have the, the privilege of getting that, interviewing some of the industry leaders when they talk to me about their, you know, beginnings and, and how maybe they started as a bellman or a front desk agent or fell into the industry. And I think the more that we can kind of humanize and show that these are people that really have a true passion for serving other people. Um, and then on the other side of the front desk, the guests that come into our lobbies, they are people too, whether they’re on a work trip, where they’re trying to escape. You know, sometimes it, it’s refreshing to take, take a beat and think about that. And that’s exactly what this article did for me because it is, you know, even though we’re hospitality, we’re in it, the hustle bustle, 365, twenty four seven. We’re still people, right? Yeah. We’re still people with our pets and, and, and our, uh, you know, what we like to do. Um, so it was a really cool, I think, uh, refreshing look. I wa – I definitely wanted to bring that in. Br – um, and, and your love of pets, it goes right along with your brand, uh, Staypineapples Hotel. And, you know, I’ve come to know and love through your content, your keynotes at the Independent Hotel Show, uh, following you on LinkedIn. For those audience members that might not be as familiar, uh, share with us, uh, a little bit about what makes Staypineapple Hotels so unique and one of a kind. Dina Belon: Yeah. So we are the opposite of corporate uniformity, uniformity. Uh, we’re really about, you know, a boutique sp – hotel experience with a lot of personality. Um, so one of the things that we’re well known for is the naked experience, um, which is, uh, a little eye-opening to a lot of people, but all it really is, is a fun, cheeky, which we like to do, uh, marketing way to talk about our bed and our bedding and our linen and our terry is so comfy, cozy and amazing, you’ll wanna sleep naked. Um, so it, and we give you an, a big cuddly robe so that you don’t come to the door naked. Ryan Embree: There you go. Dina Belon: Um, so that, that’s, that’s very indicative of the Staypineapple personality. Um, we’re also, um, not just pet friendly, we’re dog obsessed. Um, so we, uh, really go over the top with our pet program. We have a partnership with Soundz, S-O-U-N-D-Z, uh, that is, um, uh, sounds, uh, in music – Sure. That, um, pets like and that calm them when they feel nervous, um, that is available for guests, uh, at no cost, a 14-day, uh, free trial. And then, um, we have a partnership with, uh, an emergency veterinary, uh, service called Veg. Um, of course, you get beds and bowls and treats and, um, water bottles and poop bags and all kinds of stuff when you bring, uh, your furry friend. Although we’re dog obsessed, we also love kitty cats too. I have two kitty cats and two dogs. So, um, we, yeah, we’re, we’re pretty over the top with the pet thing. And then we have a, we have a number of the properties that have, uh, hotel dogs as well. Um, so one of the management staff ha – brings their dog to work every day and has really become a, a core team member. Um, you wouldn’t believe how many reviews we get, uh, with our, our furry, uh, friends being, uh, listed as their favorite part of the hotel. <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah. I’ve seen them at trade show nows at industry trade shows. Yeah. You’ll have, like, a puppy break. Uh, brilliant. Brilliant. Dina Belon: It’s my favorite thing. Ryan Embree: Yeah. It just gets people in, in, in a happy mood. People love it. So, uh, and, and the focus of, of the dog obs – dog obsessed, um, i- i- is, is so smart. I mean, p – you know, people. We always think about how stressful travel is, obviously, from a logistics and s – and people standpoint, but obviously on our pets too. They’re in a place that they’ve never been before. Um, they don’t know that they’re heading across the country or even down the road. They’re in somewhere unnatural. So that’s really, really cool that you can kind of make them feel at ease there. And, and I’m sure the guest feedback, uh, from that has been really, really great to see. Um, now, you talked about, um, Staypineapple being a, a very unique boutique brand. Um, I noticed one word you didn’t mention in there, which is, uh, independent or non-branded. Uh, you prefer the term unchained. And I wanna explore that a little bit. I don’t wanna give you too much, uh, of a question. I, I’d like, like you to kinda run with that. Why do you prefer unchained to maybe independent segment or non-branded? Dina Belon: So to me, independent, non-branded, um, you know, indicates that we’re small or we’re isolated or, um. And, and I think it’s, um, diminishing to 30% of the hotel sector, which is truly unchained in both term, both ways that that term can be used. One, we are not attached to a chain in literal terms, but we’re also unchained from a limitation perspective. I think what is so amazing about the independent or the in – the unchained sector of the market to the guest is the founders, the visionaries, the leadership teams, the hotel teams at these hotels put their lifeblood and their passion and their vision and their belief in hospitality into these properties and into the experiences guests are gonna get. It is not a corporate ownership that is managed by a brand that has 5,000 other w – hotels just like it. And, you know, the onsite hotel team has reams of binders to tell them how to do their job. Um, we believe very much in no SOPs. Um, we have, uh, ultimate SOP. It’s do the next right thing. That’s the SOP for Staypineapple. It’s that simple. Just do the next right thing. We help the team understand that a little bit with kind of some guidelines, which is what is the best thing for you and your colleagues? What is the best thing for the guests? And what is the best thing for the business? And if you frame that question, those questions under do the next right thing, anybody can make the right decision at any moment, at every level of the organization. When we talk about empowerment, it isn’t, you know, we’ve given you a toolkit. I always loved this, because I worked in, in the brands. Um, and we always had a toolkit. You had a toolbox full of things that you could use to solve a problem. Well, I don’t need to give you a toolbox. You are a grown person that is a professional in the hospitality industry and you’ve entered this industry with a passion for people. Why would I tell you how to do your job, um, in every aspect with books of SOPs? Instead, I should get out of your way and let you be who you are in an authentic way. Because that connects with people. If, uh, you know, we put, we put people in our industry in a blazer, a Navy blazer, and a name tag, and tell them, “This is how you answer the phone. This is how you greet somebody. This is how you do this.” Basically, you’re a representation of the brand, so you need to fit in this box. Well, I believe in a different hospitality, in a hospitality that is, um, grounded in, um, real people and real human beings and, and mistakes even, and quirkiness, and stuff that you wouldn’t necessarily, uh, engage in or experience in your normal life. That’s why you’re traveling. You wanna experience different things and new things. You’re going to a new place. And so we don’t have, um, dress. We don’t have uniforms for our front of house team members. We do for back of house simply because we don’t want the back of house team to have to ruin their own clothes because the engineers get their clothes snagged and the housekeepers get their clothes dirty and, you know, so it’s more just to take care of our team. But, um, the front of house team doesn’t have uniforms. They get to wear their own clothes to work. That’s another idea. It’s like, I want you to be you, but wear this black polo shirt that makes you look like everybody else. Or Navy Blazer that makes you look everybody, right? Like the entire concept of what we think is normal and standard in our industry is the antithesis of what we’re trying to create as an experience for a guest. Um, so it’s really important to us, you know, you can have colored hair and ear piercings and tattoos. And I remember early in my career, it was always, um, I love to tell this story. Um, the, the dress code, because I was a manager, so I was allowed to wear my own clothes, but the dress code was, had to have, um, pants or a skirt, uh, a, a jacket, had to have a blazer, and it had to be of solid color. So what I’ve got on today would not have applied. Um, my shoes could not have open toes and an open heel, one or the other. And I had to have pantyhose on. So I lived in Florida. <laugh> I remember I stopped wearing pantyhose at some point because they were hot. And so I, I actually had an HR person, uh, come up to me and say, “By the way, um, we’ve, we’ve noticed that you’re not meeting the dress code.” And I just turned around and looked at her and I was like, “Those things make me sweat. I have to be out by the pool sometimes. I have to be outside. It’s too hot. I’m not wearing them. Fire me.” <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah. Yeah. Dina Belon: That was the end of pantyhose in our dress code. <laugh> I was like, “Good luck with that.” <laugh> Ryan Embree: Right. And I’m sure the person on the other side, you know, it, it, they were just obviously following the guidelines – Right. And the standards of what was put before them. And you’re absolutely right, Dina. You know, the, the one thing that we talk about all the time, and you talk to. Uh, I’ve talked to industry leaders about is, you know, what makes your management company brand property so great? Usually the first thing they say is they’re people. Yet, when you’re putting those people in a box, how great can they actually be, right? Every property is so different because of the individuals that make up that property. Um, so, you know, that thought process is, is so brilliant to, to think of the individualism and the passion can kind of shine through because it’s those stories that you talked about in the unchained or the independent sector that, that reason why I, this is one of my favorite series, because I get to sit and talk to independent hoteliers and, and hear their stories, their struggles, their challenges, but also their successes, their passions, where they built this, this property that has been, you know, where they’ve had these struggles, but they’ve gotten over the hump and they just love it so much and you can just see it come out in that, that, uh, conversation. It’s, and sometimes very different. Nothing to knock the brands, but sometimes very different when you’re talking to a GM of a branded hotel. Um, and it’s m- maybe just a stop on, on their way to the career. So it is one piece of advice I hear all the time is if you’re a hospitality professional out there, you know, maybe explore the independent hotel down the road. You know, get some good experience there. It’ll, you’re definitely gonna learn a lot, that’s for sure. Yeah. Um, you’re gonna get a lot of – Well, it depends on – Yeah. Dina Belon: Yeah, what you like, right? And I agree with you. One isn’t right or wrong. I spent the vast majority of my career in the, in the branded hotel space. Um, and I just found my happy place in – Sure. In the independent space, right? I, because I was always bucking the rules when I worked in the brands. And I didn’t, I didn’t even know what boutique and. I, I though boutique hotels were just little. Like, I literally, when I started at Staypineapple, I love the story too. ‘Cause when I started, I was like, “I’m gonna come in and show them how to write SOPs and, and brand standards, and we’re gonna standardize this, and we’re gonna scale it, and it’s gonna be, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” I had, I told, because I had spent my whole career in that space. Um, I believed passionately in brand standards when I started at Staypineapple. And I remember, um, our CFO telling me, “Do not say the word brand standard. You will send Michelle off the deep end.” Michelle is our founder. Yeah. And I was like, “What? I don’t understand.” Yeah. “How could you not have brand standards? How do you even operate this place without brand standards?” <laugh> Right? Right. Um, and, and it took me a couple of years to really internalize what the difference in the business model is. Again, one is not right or wrong. They both have their strengths. But if you’re, uh, a free spirit, if you’re somebody. Like we hire for three things. Authenticity. Like your. First of all, people underestimate the willingness to be authentic. If you have been trained to put on a mask when you go to work and, and almost be an actor and play a part at the hotel, it’s very difficult to take that mask off and, and allow the vulnerability of being yourself. ‘Cause if somebody rejects you when you’re being yourself, it hurts a lot more than if a guest rejects you and yells at you when you have a mask on. That’s a Ryan Embree: Great point. Dina Belon: You’re being somebody else, right? Yeah. So it’s a harder position for our team members, I think, to be their authentic selves. Um, the next is really critical thinking. The ability to problem solve and, and, and be creative and figure out ways to, um. We know to say yes. That’s one of our sayings. We notice. We know how to say yes. Yes is not always a direct yes. Sometimes you have to go around to get to yes, but we know how to do that. And that’s all about creativity and critical thinking. And then really, the last one, um, I think is underserved in our industry, which is emotional intelligence. Um, that ability to read people. And, and it connects to that critical thinking, right? If I can, if I can, uh, connect with you on an emotional level and understand you better, understand your psychographics as a person, which is much deeper than that you like Diet Coke, right? I want to know things deeper than that about you. Then I can use that emotional intelligence to be creative and create, create hyper-personalized experiences for you. That is something that I think isn’t. It. The industry in general, particularly on the branded side, does not foster in our industry. If those things are interesting to you, then go check out the independent or unchained space, because I think you’ll be a lot happier coming from a recovering brand employee. Ryan Embree: <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah. I, I love that. I love everything about that. I mean, those skills are. I mean, it’s, it’s at the core of hospitality, um, especially the emotional intelligence. And I think y- you’re absolutely right. It’s a skill needed now more than ever, by the way. Um, and it’s gonna get trickier to navigate. So we’ll be those, those younger, um, hospitality professionals and, you know, at, at, at any age, really, that invest that time and effort into honing in that skill that are gonna, that are gonna see successes there. Um, I wanna, I wanna take, uh, a step back, Dina, and kinda look at the hospitality landscape right now for independent and, or unchained, uh, uh, hotels. Where do you see opportunity in today’s landscape? And then maybe where are some of the bigger challenges that, that they’re coming up against? Dina Belon: Sure. So I think one of our biggest opportunities I just mentioned, which is hyper-personalization, um, we really look at this, i- if you kinda start at the beginning of the process of how you do hyperpersonalization. Um, it really starts with zero-party data for us. Uh, every brand or every group or every, you know, independent hotel is different, um, in their philosophy on this. I’ve certainly, um, experienced and, um, met with people that do research on their guests online. They look up your Facebook page. They check you out and see what you might be talking about. Um, we have decided to take the approach that we only wanna use data that you have freely and willingly given us. Um, so we communicate with our guests a lot, um, when we can. So there’s a little bit of a differentiator here when we talk about this. Um, if you’re coming in as an Expedia or a Booking.com guest, probably not getting this experience because we don’t have, we don’t have much information about you, and those OTAs don’t like to share. So, but if, uh, you’ve stayed with us before or it’s a direct booking, then we have communicated with you, um, in a way that is fun and cheeky and kinda starts to get you. Um, w- we like to, we like to encourage kind of a pre-arrival experience that is, um, engaging and, and, and gets you kind of primed for what Staypineapple is gonna be like. So you’re not, like, smacked in the fa – you know, you’re expecting a Marriott courtyard and you’re smacked in the face with Staypineapple. Ryan Embree: Right. You got a dog running up to you and yeah. <laugh> Um, Dina Belon: So one of the things we do is ask a very open-ended question, um, in a pre-arrival email to all of our, uh, direct booking guests. And it says, um, basically in a cheeky way, I don’t remember exactly how it’s phrased, but it’s why you come in to stay with us. And you would be shocked at the amount of information that people share with us and, like, get into deep personal things and tell us all kinds of stuff. That is a trevor – treasure trove of information. Again, that’s stuff that matters. Not whether Jack Daniels is your favorite, you know, liquor. Uh, like, I wanna know that you’re. What, what do you volunteer for? What, what are you passionate about? What do you care about? Are you married? Do you have kids? You know, like, the things that, that you really, really make you who you are, right? That’s, that’s what we really look at for hyper-personalization and allows our team to use their creativity. So that’s just step one, right? Gotta have the information. And then two, you have to have a culture of people that are encouraged and inspired to be creative, to do fun, interesting things, not just deliver a bottle of wine to your room. What? <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah. <laugh> Dina Belon: Right? Um, like, do something that’s about me, not about you. It, like, that’s what I always say. To me, the bottle of wine in the room is about you buying my loyalty. It’s about you as a hotel. It’s not about me as an individual. So everything should be about the individual and about what makes them excited or happy or feel welcome or feel like they belong, um, there. How many times have you walked into a hotel and you felt like there was a cool club and you didn’t belong? Ryan Embree: Mm. Yeah. Dina Belon: So awful. It is the worst thing about hotels, I think. One of the other things that I just find, um, disheartening about our, our industry is that many people that are not related to the hotel business think you can’t go in a hotel if you’re not a guest. That’s so sad to me, right? Like, there’s, there’s this perception of a barrier, and it’s the opposite of what we should be. Like, we believe our hotels are very much a community hub. And so we encourage the community to come into the hotel. And we don’t even, we don’t have a lot of food and beverage. And some of our properties don’t have any. Some have just limited. We have a few full-service restaurants, but it’s not about us wanting to make money in our restaurants. It’s about us wanting to create an atmosphere in the hotel that is engaging and activating for the guests that are coming. ‘Cause the guests wanna interact with locals. They don’t want to interact with somebody from New York – Right. When they’re in Seattle. They wanna hang out with Seattle people, right? Yeah. So it’s, it’s a real win-win model, but you have to turn, you have to turn that barrier so many people think exists. Ryan Embree: Well, you touched on two things there, Dina, that at the core of this independent hotel show series, it really comes back to, which is loyalty, you know, just fierce, fierce loyalty for inde – I mean, the type of loyalty that I hear from guests talking about independent hotels is very different from the other points or nights that I’m, that I’m hearing in, on the other side of it. And, and it’s a depth that will be word of mouth. I mean, when you talk about word of mouth, like, that is the ultimate s – what marketing can’t buy, right? That storytelling that they’re going to be able to provide you champions of your brand and advocates for your hotel. Uh, the second thing is local community engagement and getting the community on board with what you do. I see it no greater place than Miami when we’re at, at the independent hotel show. And they talk about trying to just infuse that Miami culture into their own properties. And it does attracts a lot of locals. And, and you’re absolutely right. It’s, there’s a parallel where probably somewhere where you, where we talk a lot about reputation and people being scared of those one-star, two-star, or even negative feedback in any sense of it, embracing that and saying, “I don’t want one-star reviews, but I wanna see the negative feedback so that I can fix it, right? I want those, I want those locals to come into my hotel. Um, I don’t wanna put that barrier up because I wanna be that community hub. I love that. So what about any challenges you think right now? Dina Belon: Yeah, I think, um, the, there’s, there’s a number of challenges. I mean, I can, I can talk about the obvious, the headwinds on inflation, the cost of human and financial capital, maintaining service quality while we’re trying to maximize profit. <laugh> Yeah. I like all of the blah, blah, blah. All of the, Ryan Embree: Yeah. All those talking points. Dina Belon: Yeah. They’re not very fun topics though. Um, <laugh> honestly, I think the most interesting topic right now is really AI. And I do think it’s our biggest risk, particularly in our, our world of this unchained or independent hotel space. It’s the biggest risk we have, and it’s also the biggest opportunity. And it could go either way. And I think it will probably go hard one way or the other. It won’t be somewhere in the middle. And the reality is, is AI, AI search, which is kind of where we’re at right now, not, we’re not really to the point of bookings starting a little tiny bit. But, um, AI search is focused on very deep, complex, broad data about a hotel. So a, a person, and it really starts with the search parameters. You’re going from keyword search, like, I’m going to Seattle and I wanna be near Pioneer Square, to, I’m interested in a boutique hotel with a cool vibe that has a restaurant and provides a great sleep experience. Those two searches are completely different and is where the threat and the opportunity comes from. The opportunity is, as the hotel owner, operator, you have the best opportunity to create very deep content that is searchable by an AI. Compared to Booking.com and Expedia and all the others, their scale just does not allow them to create that kind of deep content for every hotel on their site, right? So you can create a higher value for the AI search to go to your website over somewhere else that it can go find your hotel. You might still find your hotel, but you’d rather get the booking. Um, direct and get the AI sending the guests to your website to check out the hotel than to booking.com ‘s website to check out. So that’s where the opportunity is. Threat is very real that the big brands and the OTAs have the pocketbooks, bandwidth, the resources to win at this fight and come in and put themselves between us and our guests. And so I think both at a legislative level, all the way down to individual property advocacy and elevating your voice online and everything in between, every hoteler, hotelier needs to be paying attention to. Because in the next five years, you could lose, you could lose the connection to your guests prior to arriving. And that, for us, that would ruin a huge part of our experience. Like we have pre-arrival concierge that helps you curate and plan your experience for your whole trip, not just your hotel stay. All of that would be for naught if I can’t communicate with my guests. Ryan Embree: 100%. Yeah. Uh, seismic shift happening, technologics pl – like shifting beneath us. Uh, I think you’re absolutely where it’s gonna impact everyone from the big brands all the way down to the small independent hotel who, who thinks, “Oh, this is, this isn’t coming for me. It’s gonna have wide ranging effects. It’ll be very, very interesting to see.” But share your concern, but also hopefully that little bit of hope there too, that it, it does go that right way and hospitality stays in, in somewhere where we come to know and, and love our industry. I wanna shift gears. Another thing I’ve, uh, learned about you over the years following your content and your career is your work, uh, inspiring, empowering the next generation of female hospitality professionals. Dina, I’ve seen you on stage at, at multiple panels, uh, a- a- around this subject. Tell us a little bit about the work you do behind the scenes and any tips you would share for up and coming Suite Spot female listeners or just the listeners in general here. Dina Belon: Yeah, I do. I love this topic. I, I love to empower women. Um, I think, uh, uh, we’re, we’re a force in this industry, um, and our voice should be heard. Um, so I, I like to support other women by a couple of things. Um, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll start to notice, I like to simplify things down to like one, two, three points at most. Yeah, I like it. <laugh> Um, because I think it’s the way the human brain works. Sure. And the best way we can kind of, uh, create change – Yeah. Is by having a very focused, uh, approach to it. I really like self-advocacy, um, and encouraging women to self-advocate, because I think in general, this is a generalization because it’s not all women, but in general, we’re not great at it. Um, men are much better at self-advocacy than women. There’s been all kinds of study and research done on that. Um, and it’s a huge part of why women are paid less, why women are promoted less, because they just don’t ask. They don’t raise their hand. Um, and so I. And then the, the second point kind of ties in, which is leading by example. And so I think I love to tell stories about my career when self-advocacy was a benefit to me and how I got to where I am. And I’m afraid of it too. Let me tell all the female listeners I am not great at self-advocacy. Um, I’ve learned to do it over the years while I’m kind of gritting my teeth in the back of my mouth. Um, but I, there’s been a number of times when, you know, the really, the places where my career really took off, um, I stood up for myself and I raised my hand and I said, “I can do that.” Or, “I can even do more than what you asked me for.” So I’ll give you an example. Um, when I was at Wyndham, um, we, we acquired another company that did the same thing as we did. Um, and we were looking at how to create efficiency and blah, blah, blah. One was in Seattle and one was in Florida. And I was in the Florida office and I was asked, and we were the acquirer, so we acquired the company in Seattle. And so I was asked to fly out to Seattle and check out how my division, which we did all the renovation work and capital improvements and stuff like that, how my division would work with the group in Seattle. And so off I went on a plane and met with them and talked to them and figured out how they did things and figured out how we did things. Um, and so the ask was like, how do we merge the two and how do we create some efficiency? And I came back with a combined team that had me at the top of it with a promotion to vice president. <laugh> It was really hard for me to do. It was a little bit easier because I gotta do it in writing and send it in and I didn’t have to say it out loud. Um, but it worked. And it was the first VP role I ever had. I was one of the youngest vice presidents at Wyndham. I remember the first time I went to the all leadership meeting, which was, happened once a year at Wyndham. There was 500 people there. This is vice presidents and above. Um, that’s how large the organization is. Um, that’s less than 5% of the employment base of the company. Um, and I was one of the youngest and I was one of the few women that were in the room. And I was blown away by that factor. And I went, “I, I need to work at do- doing something about this. I need to help other women.” ‘Cause particularly 20 years ago probably, um, there was a little bit more sharp elbows among women. There were so few seats in leadership that we were competing for them. And I think women weren’t as good as we are today at lifting everybody up instead of competing with each other. Adding more chairs at the table instead of competing for the one that a woman is gonna fail, fill. Um, so those, I think, are really my biggest things that I recommend younger women focus on is be an example to other women around you, above you, below you, beside you, I don’t care. Advocate for yourself. Advocate for other women and support each other. Um, don’t compete with each other. Ryan Embree: Yeah, I love that. I love that story. And I think we, you know, it’s inspiring to hear those, right? Because it, it can be scary sometimes. Um, but to hear those, those stories, those real life, um, you know, personal, uh, examples in front of you, those are the things that maybe get you that extra bit of confidence there. And it’s, it’s very, very cool to see. So, uh, appreciate your work there. And, um, you know, ex- excited to, to share that with those tips for the audience. Definitely wanted to, to, um, go into that topic a little bit. Um, but this is the Independent Hotel Show series. We might change your episode to say Unchained Hotel Series. But, uh, we’ll, we’re gonna. This is. We’re talking today about the Independent Hotel Show happening this year, September 16th and 17th. Uh, Miami Beach. Remember, listeners, uh, don’t forget to use promo code Ryan26. That’s for a complimentary, uh, registration. Dina, you’re on the advisory board. You’ve been a long time supporter of this show. What inspired you? Take me back to when you were first kind of asked to get involved with the show. Uh, what inspired you to get in, like, first involved with it? And how do you see it supporting independent hoteliers? Dina Belon: Yeah. I was, uh, introduced to it before the very first one and asked to be on the advisory board. And it was an immediate yes, and yes, what can I, what can I do to help? Because I knew that there was a gap in our industry in the independent space for a place for independents to get together and have real conversations and real opportunity to collaborate and learn from each other. We’re so isolated, um, in, in many ways. Like, we don’t have a mothership to create all of the stuff, the, you know, programs or education or philosophy or how do you do this? Or what do you do with that? Or, you know, how do you get mustard stains out of the towels? You know, like, anything. Like, we don’t have a mothership that helps us, that hands us a bunch of stuff and tells us how to do it. Each of us are creating all of this on our own. And that’s part of what makes our sector of the industry so unique and great, is that you get a different experience at every property because they’re all created through a visionary process. But there’s also a lot that we could share best practices and adapt what somebody else is doing to what we’re doing. I, like, I love to talk to, um, suppliers and vendors and tech companies, um, that reach out to me all the time because I learn from them. I learn what they’re doing, um, how one of their customers is doing something. You know, like, we constantly have a need for new knowledge and collaboration in our space that didn’t exist. And so this show is one of the only things that are really in our space focused on us and give us the opportunity to do that. It is an incredibly good show. It’s so well curated from, uh, an educational perspective, from the sessions. There’s multiple stages. Um, everything is in one room, which I love. Um, you can, you know, you can be listening to a panel discussion that’s really energizing, and then you’ve got a 10-minute break and you can run over and see a vendor that you wanted to talk to because you’ve only got 10 minutes. And then you get, you know, it’s not spread out. It’s not like the big shows where, you know, you’re gonna have to walk 10 miles to get to something. And the people that are there care and are focused on the independent space. So you’re also not gonna get the eye rolls and the you’re too small and we don’t care about you, and oh, you’re not part of Marriott, uh, you know, conversation, whether with vendors or with anybody, right? The, the people that are here are passionate about this part of the industry and are ready and willing to help anybody that comes to the show improve what they’re doing. Uh, like, I love helping other independent hoteliers, uh, in any way I can. In any context, talking about distribution, talking about guest service, talking about, you know, any, any part, because there are enough customers out there for all of us. I know we’re competitors, but, um, helping, helping everybody lift is a much better strategy than trying to elbow somebody out. Ryan Embree: Absolutely. We’re all in it together. 100% agree. And it’s funny, you know, you were mentioning at the, at the top of the answer about, you know, how independent hotels don’t have some of these resources that the big brands do. Uh, you know, one of the, one of the common things that big brands do is have an annual conference, right? And they get everybody together and, and share ideas and challenges. This is like the annual conference for independent hotel shows. So it’s a sense of belonging. Um, it’s a different energy. It’s a different. It’s, it’s a different type of, uh, uh, of event. Um, it. So real quick, first, uh, tip for any first time attendees that, uh, might be going. Dina Belon: Yeah. Um, I think two. Again, I love my, my two or three points. Um, be curious. So show up curious, um, and, and open and willing to share. Um, because that’s what your, your analogy to a brand conference is perfect because, um, that’s what we’re there to do is help each other. Um, and being curious will help you just be a sponge and take things in. Um, use, use AI in this scenario, um, and help <laugh> have an AI assistant help you, an electronic one in your pocket, help you remember all the stuff that is gonna come at you because it’s gonna come like a fire hose and it’s gonna be really hard to remember it all when you get home. Um, I use Pocket for anybody who cares. It’s a little tiny device that I literally keep in my pocket. And I push it anytime I have an idea, I can just talk into it. Or I can push it if I’m having an interesting conversation with somebody and it’ll record that conversation. Of course, I ask the person before I do it. Um, but right? So that it, so that you’re, you’re capturing all of that interesting, cool ideas and, um, vendors and sup – you know, people that can support you. Um, it, walk away from an interaction with somebody and they’ve handed you their business card. Take your little device. It can be your phone too, but however you wanna do it and say, “I just met Ryan with Suite Spot and I really wanna be on his podcast. I need to reach out to him after when I get back.” And then your little AI will give you a to-do when you get back, uh, home. So that’s, that’s my number one tech tip. Um, and then I think the other, the opposite of that, which is a little challenging sometimes, is set the technology down and be present and be aware and pay attention. And don’t be on your phone answering emails from your staff back at your hotel. Like, I know it’s super hard to disconnect and, and be present while you’re at the conference, but you’ll gain a lot more if you’re there and you’re listening and you’re talking. Like, if you go to some of the educational sessions, raise your hand, ask questions. Make a point. Don’t even ask a question. If you’ve got an idea that the panel needs to hear, raise your hand and say it. Um, because it’s a, it’s a dialogue. This isn’t a. There’s, you know, we don’t have the president of Marriott and the president of Wyndham sitting on a panel telling us all how to do things. We’re all collaborators that are telling how we’re doing things and wanting to hear how you’re doing it and figuring out how we can share, share those ideas. So be present. Ryan Embree: That, that’s a great. Yeah, that’s a great mindset to, to enter this show into. My tip is gonna be make sure you see Dina Bellin on stage, uh, because she’s gonna be there once again. You’re gonna be moderating a powerhouse panel. Hospitality is not a department. Um, give us a sneak preview, if you can, of what that discussion might unpack and maybe your thoughts on the topic. Dina Belon: Yeah. It’s really gonna be, you know, about how hospitality is a culture. It’s not a silo. It’s, um, it’s really formed over time through behavior and modeling. Um, it’s not training manuals. It’s not a poster on the wall. It’s values. Um, it’s about, um, really taking everybody in your organization, whether it’s ops, which always seems obvious, but the finance departments, you know, HR, uh, the marketing team. Like, is everybody aligned to your mission and values as an organization? And you as a leader, are you practicing, as a lifestyle, the culture of your organization? So hospitality is not about the ops department. It is about the entire organization following a. Identifying first, have you identified? <laugh> Right? So, like, our mission at Staypineapple is where stays become stories. Um, it’s a cute, cute way to say it, but it is in very real terms. We want your stay to be so impactful and so memorable that it becomes a lifetime story for you and your family. That kind of connection, that kind of sense of belonging, that kind of emotional feeling, um, is what we’re after, and that’s our mission. And so, if I’m not living that lifestyle every day as the leader of the organization, and our CFO, and our accountant, and our HR, uh, manager aren’t living that lifestyle, how can we ask the hotel teams to live it? Ryan Embree: Yeah. Great point. Yeah, it’s, I mean, it’s hospitality, right? And what we’re always trying to, to try to accomplish, uh, at the end of a guest day is to really, uh, not just, not just feel, feel the, the hospitality, feel the s – the, uh, uh, the, the service that we were providing them. Uh, not just feeling like they, they stayed in, you know, four rooms in a, four rooms in a box, right? That’s, that’s what – Yeah. The old saying. Dina Belon: How many hotels have you forgotten – Ryan Embree: Right. That’s a wonderful point. Wonderful point. And a great segue into our next, because I think you’ve got an unforgettable, um, uh, portfolio over there. So we’re gonna do some rapid fire here, Dina, to get to know you and your, uh, portfolio a little better at Staypineapple Hotel. So, uh, we always like to start with our favorite view from one of your hotels. Dina Belon: Definitely Chicago. So we’re in the loop and we look right at the Chicago Theater sign. And then three blocks down the other way, you can see the edge of the bean. And then there’s this amazing jazz mural, uh, from the corner rooms of the building. The, the incredible view. And we’re an urban city center, so views are not generally our vibe. Um, right? It’s usually another building next door. Um, but that one, that is really incredible. Ryan Embree: That makes for a good one. Uh, favorite fun fact about one of your properties? Dina Belon: Oh, uh, this is personal. Uh, uh, Fetch, which is our recycling program, is, um, all built around our dog obsessed culture. Uh, again, we like to be, you know, funny and cheeky. Um, so Dash, who’s our, um, our mascot, um, the pineapple pup. Um, he helps with waste reduction education, the Fetch program. Get it? Fetch, dog. Ryan Embree: Oh, I love it. Yeah. There you go. Uh, favorite signature dish, um, or amenity? Dina Belon: Hmm. Um, there’s a couple. Oh, goodness. These, this is hard. This is really hard. I, I mentioned the naked experience already, so I’ll let that one go, though that is one of my favorites. Again, personal. So you might start to see, I have a little bit of slant towards sustainability. Um, I am. It’s a, it’s a personal topic that I’m very passionate about. Um, our water bottles. Um, it was a huge lift for us to figure out. So, uh, what, I don’t know, five years ago, we used to have, um, unlimited water bottles available to our guests. Um, it’s part of our health and wellness program. We believe that, you know, hydration is a big part of health and wellness, particularly in en – urban environments when you’re walking a lot, you need to stay hydrated. It gave me a lot of heartburn. <laugh> We were, we were, we were selling, or not selling, giving away a half a million water bottles, plastic water bottles a year. And it just, it hurt my heart. Um, so we were able to partner, um, with Path Water to do a custom 20-ounce aluminum water bottle pre-filled. Um, and we leave that in the guest room complimentary for every guest. And we put a water bar in our lobbies, um, for, to refill those bottles. Um, and that replaced all the plastic water bottles. And so, so now you see really fun, cute, steak pineapple aluminum water bottles all over the airport all the time in our city. Ryan Embree: Hey, there you go. Great marketing goes along with it. Uh, favorite guest experience? Dina Belon: Um, definitely Surprise and Delight, which is our, uh, strategy around that creative, uh, you know, hyper-personalization for guests. Uh, really creating those moments that create memories and stories. Ryan Embree: And then last favorite piece of art. Ryan Embree: <laugh> That’s funny. Um, we, we happen to have our owner, our founder, Michelle, is a huge art collector. So that is really hard. We have a lot of original art in our hotels that’s from her personal collection. She regularly emails me and says, “Hey, I just bought a new piece, and can you find a place to put it in one of the hotels?” <laugh> And I’m always like, “Oh my God, I’m running out of walls, Michelle.” But I think my favorite that she has, um, bought for every single hotel is, um, a Martin Goldstein original dog sculpture. Um, he is famous for creating these whimsical, limited edition bronze dogs that are known as Harvey Dogs. Um, and they’re just super cute. Um, and you can find one at every hotel. It’s, it’s one of those, like, Disney where you have to find the Mickey Mouse and Everything. Ryan Embree: Yeah, like a little Easter egg, yeah. Dina Belon: Exactly. An Easter egg hunt at any Staypineapple is go find the Marty Goldstein, uh, Harvey dog. Ryan Embree: All right. Well, there it, there it is. Challenge, um, put out there for our Suite Spot listeners, uh, visiting Staypineapple Hotels. Well, Dina, thank you. You’ve spent, um, quite, uh, some time with us. Um, thank you so much for sitting down. As we wrap up today, we do like to look into kind of our hospitality crystal ball. Uh, try to predict the future, which is becoming more difficult to do every single day, uh, now with every, the technology and AI. But, you know, as president of Staypineapple Hotels, what’s your vision for the future of, uh, the brand? Dina Belon: Yeah. You know, I think we’re gonna continue to expand on our ability to connect with guests and make them feel like they belong when they’re at Staypineapple, that they’re part of the family. And I know that sounds kitschy, but it’s, it’s a very real emotional, uh, mission for us. And, and in the broader context, what we believe the hospitality’s, hospitality industry’s role and responsibility in society is, and will become even more important as robots take over the world. <laugh> That human connection that a hospitality industry can create, um, becomes an imperative for us to stay connected as a society. Ryan Embree: I agree. Yeah, that was just gonna echo that same sentiment. I think it’s gonna become more and more im- important. So we need, uh, brands like Staypineapple Hotels to, to keep true to that hospitality mission statement. So Dina, thank you again, uh, for taking the time to join us here on The Suite Spot. Any final thoughts before we wrap up? Dina Belon: Just go out there and be you, you know? Uh, don’t be afraid to, uh, come play in the independent space and definitely come to the Independent Hotel Show in Miami and, uh, let’s have a cocktail. Ryan Embree: Let’s do it. Uh, both Dina and I will have the privilege of being down there in Miami. We hope to see you in person. Dina, thank you so much for joining us here on The Suite Spot, and we hope to see you at the Independent Hotel Show in Miami. Thank you. And thank you for listening. We’ll talk to you next time here on The Suite Spot. To join our loyalty program, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Suite Spot is produced by Travel Media Group. Our editor is Brandon Bell with cover art by Bary Gordon. I’m your host, Ryan Embree and we hope you enjoyed your stay.

211 – TMG Hospitality Trailblazers: Kim Wootteon

The TMG Hospitality Trailblazers welcomes the latest addition to the series, Kim Wootteon, Sr. VP of Commercial Strategy at Kampgrounds of America, Inc. to discuss the outdoor hospitality landscape and how artificial intelligence and technology are playing a key role in connecting different generations of travelers to the KOA vast portfolio of properties. Ryan Embree: Welcome to Suite Spot, where hoteliers check in and we check out what’s trending in hotel marketing. I’m your host, Ryan Embree. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Suite Spot. This is your co-host, Ryan Embry. Cassady Quintana: And I’m your co-host, Cassady Quintana. Ryan Embree: We’re excited to have you here with us for another edition of our TMG Hospitality Trailblazers series. We’ve been running this series for quite a while, paving those management companies, individuals that are paving a way into the future for hospitality, which feels like is changing on a weekly basis. I’ve been really looking forward to this episode. A familiar face and voice with us. It’s the first time you’re joining us virtually. Kim Wootteon, Senior Vice President, Commercial Strategies at Kampgrounds of America. Kim, thank you so much for joining us back on The Suite Spot. Kim Wootteon: Yes, it’s great to see you both. Thanks for having me today. Ryan Embree: Yeah, we’re gonna have a super fun conversation. You have an incredible brand. We can’t wait to jump in. But before we start talking about Kampgrounds of America and KOA, I wanna start because we missed it when we were in Arlington at the Digital Transformation Summit of getting a little bit about your hospitality background and journey that led you to such a cool position at KOA. Kim Wootteon: My kind of career path has been quite interesting. It’s really led to the role I have today. So the first 12 years of my career was spent in retail. And for all of you millennials, I started with PacSun. I was an OG, skate and surf lifestyle fanatic. And I worked in retail for 12 years and really learned operations, marketing, and quite frankly, leadership. PacSun was a really great people-centric company. And it’s really where I got my foundation for leadership and my drive for results. And then I transitioned for retail into the more traditional hospitality sector and worked for four years with Marshall Hotels and Resorts, leading sales, marketing, and diving into revenue management. And then was recruited by a company called Bluewater Development, who was really pioneers within the outdoor hospitality industry and very traditional owners in the indoor hospitality industry. So great experience. I was introduced to KOA with them and the entire glamping and camping sector of hospitality, which was super exciting. And then also got to work with some really great brands such as Marriott and Hilton and IHG and independent properties, independent campgrounds. It was quite an eclectic mix of properties, that I got to support in sales, marketing, and revenue. And I joined KOA about five years ago, leading marketing at the local level. And in 2022, we established the commercial strategy team at KOA, and, I now oversee revenue management, local marketing or field marketing, retail, distribution, and sales across the entire KOA portfolio, both our owned assets and our franchise locations, and support for KOA, Inc. as well. Ryan Embree: So this is why I love this question so much, because we get such an eclectic melting pot of backgrounds of hospitality professionals, maybe starting in retail. I hear F&B a lot recently. And then you go from the brands, you go, outdoor hospitality, and you get this big melting pot, and it kinda defines who you are as an industry professional, but also gives you, I think, an appreciation of some of those other places that you’ve been or even properties which can span from the giant resorts that we’ve seen all the way to, maybe it is a campsite where it’s a lot more local and kinda community and, and tight-knit feeling. Kim Wootteon: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’ve enjoyed my journey. It allows me to bring perspective to the work we do every day that is unique. And we’ve done a really great job at KOA of hiring a team of leaders and a team of people, in the field with really diverse backgrounds, which I think is a great compliment to the diversity across our portfolio. Cassady Quintana: Yeah, I think it’s interesting because you talk about this new team that you guys have created at KOA and the things that you’re developing and introducing into this outdoor hospitality. But for our listeners who may not know too much about KOA, we have a lot of hotel listeners. So if you can just give us a little bit of background about the brand and how it’s found its way to becoming one of the number one outdoor hospitality leaders. Kim Wootteon: So KOA was founded in 1962 by Dave Drumm in Billings, Montana. He saw this surge of travelers heading to the world’s fair in Seattle, and he opened the Billings Campgrounds, on his property along the Yellowstone River. And today, Kampgrounds of America is the largest system of privately owned campgrounds across the US and Canada with over 500 locations. We have 50 locations that are owned and operated by KOA, and 450 plus locations that are franchised. It’s a really interesting segment or vertical within the hospitality industry. Incredibly diverse portfolio, incredibly diverse guests. And we’re really fortunate to be the leader within this segment of the industry. Ryan Embree: And we mentioned at the top of this episode, this is our TMG Hospitality Trailblazer series. Now, I don’t think there is a much more fitting brand than KOA as far as being a trailblazer when you, when you think about that term, but I’ve been surprised to learn from getting to know you and the KOA brand of the different modern way that we kind of talk about trailblazers in our industry. And so, Kim, you and your team have been doing some incredible work. We’re gonna mention it in this episode, but what do you think makes the Kampgrounds of America brand a true embodiment of trailblazers and trailblazing in our industry right now? Kim Wootteon: It starts really with our vision at KOA. And our vision is to be the world leader in defining and advancing the business and experience of outdoor hospitality. And that’s been a focus for our company for years. We have taken a really unique approach to, I’d say, the traditional hospitality industry. We understand camping, we understand hospitality, and we are really committed to being the leader within not just the outdoor hospitality space, but the overall hospitality space in general. And it really starts with knowing our guest. And we are fortunate. We have tons of first-party guest data. We have years and years of history. And we’re known in our segment of the industry for the research we do to really better understand our guest and how our guest changes and what they expect. So it’s a really unique advantage. And the research we provide is not just for KOA and our franchisees, but it’s for the entire industry. And trailblazing shows up in a variety of ways, almost every decision that we make as a brand. So from the guest experience standpoint, we’re launching a new koa.com website that’s really powered by AI and focused on personalization and trip planning and flexible cancellation policies and the guest’s ability to manage reservations. So some of the more traditional things that you would see in the hospitality industry, but with some unique features that are custom to how guests like to camp. From an organizational structure standpoint, we have a commercial strategy team, which we really are the only one in the industry that has a full commercial strategy arm. And we have an AI team. We built our AI department at the beginning of this year, and that team continues to grow and really focus both internally and externally on how we can use AI to enhance the employee experience and the guest experience. And then within outdoor hospitality, technology has kind of always been a little bit of an opportunity. We don’t necessarily follow some of the mainstream tech choices that you see in indoor hospitality. So our focus has really been how do we align with what works well within indoor hospitality? We’ve been exploring OTA integrations and an RMS integration and enhanced text messaging capabilities and housekeeping modules to help operations be more efficient. It’s about really how can we be the first in the outdoor space to align most closely with what works in indoor hospitality, and then try to address the points of friction where we can that are really unique to outdoor hospitality. Cassady Quintana: I love that you mentioned this balance of outdoor hospitality and what that means to people, but also finding those opportunities for technology because that is the trend these days, right? Is AI this, AI that, and how can we bring in that technology? And we know that KOA has built such a recognizable brand in outdoor hospitality. So how do you guys find that you’re balancing and maintaining what Dave built back in the ’60s, that trusted legacy of what KOA is with continuing to try and attract a younger generation or maybe people that have never been camping before? Kim Wootteon: It is a really fine balance that is not easy. We truly work at it every day and we’re really, really fortunate to have such a legacy brand and such a trusted brand. And so it’s really this balance of how do we stay rooted in our core values and our mission with connecting people to the outdoors and each other while meeting guest expectations for who the camper is today? And so, we see participation in camping across all generations, which is really fascinating. In 2025, participation among adults, 65 or older, reached its highest level in eight years. So we’re seeing this rebound in the boomer population. 25% of all new campers in 2025 were boomers. And at the same time, younger generations, particularly millennials, continue to make camping a really meaningful share of their leisure travel. So it’s this ongoing challenge of how do we attract and retain campers? It’s the same challenge everybody has in our industry. And then keeping existing campers and getting new ones to come back. It’s really that frequency question. We’ve seen some shifts in frequency over the past several years. Our more legacy campers used to take two, three, four trips a year. And we’re seeing that frequency diminish slightly. New campers come and experience it. And maybe don’t, maybe don’t camp again in the same year. It may take one camping trip a year. So that’s a unique challenge our industry is navigating. But we do a lot of research to understand what inspires each generation to camp, and we work really hard to deliver memorable experiences to keep them coming back. But I think the thing that is consistent across all generations and what really matters most to campers, whether they’re new or they’re legacy campers, there’s some core foundational items that we really pride ourselves in across the KOA system. So safety and security is one, cleanliness and quality. We have a really rigorous quality assurance program, and we visit every single campground every single year to ensure each campground is meeting quality assurance standards. And we’re okay to say goodbye to those campgrounds that maybe aren’t meeting our standards. Campers are looking for some self-guided recreation. So if they want to be in the outdoors and really utilize their time as they see fit, the amenities and the recreation continue to play a critical role in that decision-making process. Pet friendliness is really critical and so many people in outdoors love to camp with their pets. And so it’s vital that all of our properties be really pet-friendly. And we have pet-friendly accommodations, pet walks, and camp canine parks. Pets are, are really an extension of our guest base, truly. And then basics like clean laundry, clean restroom facilities, clean laundry facilities, all the essentials that are needed for a great camping experience. Ryan Embree: You definitely have the advantage of a memorable experience on your end, right? I think that has been the knock on the indoor hospitality space, is that sometimes it’s your hotel stay or experience there might not be the most memorable part of a trip versus camping feels like something, if done right, and the quality is there, that is a memory that’s not just gonna stick with you for a year that you might just tell a couple people about, but maybe decades. Maybe it becomes a family tradition, and I’m sure you have some incredible stories to share there. But as I mentioned at the top of this episode, Kim, we had the pleasure of meeting you in Arlington, Texas at the Digital Transformation Summit and Hospitality and Hotels. And again, from what I knew about Kampgrounds of America then and what I know now, it was like kind of one of those spaces where I was like, “Well, I wonder, I wonder what KOA is doing in this space.” And then I got to hear your keynote and I was blown away. But it was also one of the most fascinating conversations I had at that event because of the relationship with technology where some of your guests might be looking for an escape from that technology while others kind of see it as this is the baseline and maybe WiFi isn’t a tech- technology to them. Maybe that’s just a standard for them. So it’s so interesting. It’s fascinating. I’m sure it’s that balance what you’re talking about, Kim, but you also have to balance between the guest and you also have 450 franchisees out there, right? And you’re an owner yourself of 50 properties. So I wanna get into both of those kinda spectrums. One is, what are you seeing the guests, their relationship with technology when it comes to KOA? And then maybe you can speak to the owner side of it, of are you hearing owners wanting to implement more technology or are they kind of resisting that when you’re saying, “Hey, let’s start to look at these new kind of maybe fancy technological updates.” I know there’s a packed question there, so. Kim Wootteon: Yeah, no. And lots to unpack within that question. So let’s start with the guest first and really the unique expectations that come from our campers. And while historically, camping has been a way of a form of leisure travel where you can kind of disconnect from everything that’s going on in daily life and really spend time in the outdoors, nearly half of all campers, about 47% site wifi as very important. So we have learned over the years that wifi is a utility. It is not an amenity anymore. It is a price of admission expectation for campers. Technology and remote work is still shaping camping behavior. And then Gen Z is the most likely to work while camping. So, we cater our experiences to every generation. And so Wi-Fi becomes a critical, critical component. While we’ve seen a slight decline in work camping, with people going back to the office and those just individual changes, it’s still really important. And it, what’s really unique is new campers, and again, kind of new campers, 25% of all new campers last year were boomers. So when we think about new campers, they are more likely than experienced campers to prioritize connectivity. So about 50% of new campers versus 43% of experienced campers. So access to technology directly influences length of stay and the experience. So we have focused heavily on tech and not just wifi at the campground, but how technology is used throughout the guest journey. Have we made it really easy for them to book and find the campground that meets their experience expectations? What’s the communication with the guests look like pre and post, or pre-during, quite honestly, and posts say through text messaging or, or other forms of technology? How easy can they find their site? Just all of those simple things where tech is a really great way to create efficiencies in operations, still have really, really connected touchpoints, relationship-wise, because I think that is, one of the most critical pieces of outdoor hospitality is the relationship our owners build with their campers. And then can they connect while they’re on site? And for those who don’t want to connect and really wanna disconnect during their stay, have we effectively marketed those sites that are best for them to stay in? Have we created connectivity zones where if they do choose to connect, there’s a place on the campground that is best for that, and the rest of the park could be more of a disconnection zone. So really thinking about how a camper is using the space. On the flip side, our owners, this has been an interesting challenge and journey. Just like our campers, our owners are incredibly diverse as well. We’re really blessed. And I think this kind of lends to the success of our legacy brand. We have legacy owners within the KOA brand. We have franchisees that have been in the system for 50 and 60 years. They’ve been here since the beginning, and that ownership has passed down through generations, which is really rare to find across our industry today. We have a lot of individual owner operators that, they gave up their careers as nurses and as architects, and they follow their passion for the outdoors, and they built and own, decide to buy a campground and and be entrepreneurs. And then we have a lot of investors coming into our space, that are diversifying their portfolio. They have hotels, like that public storage and outdoor hospitality is just a natural transition in their portfolio diversification. So the diversity amongst our owners is a unique challenge when it comes to technology. And then across multiple, age demographics as well. So from a wifi standpoint, we make it a requirement. It is now part of our quality assurance. We incentivize our owners to deliver really great wifi. We have a wifi royalty incentive program, and they can receive reduced royalties for a select period of time if their wifi meets certain standards. We believe it’s that important to the guest experience. And then really from tech adoption, I think that’s where we see some of the larger pieces of friction as our industry evolves and we’re constantly trying to balance the expectations of the guests with the needs of our owners and operators. Things like a couple years ago, we were getting ready to launch online reservation management. Okay, I can, I can book, I can change, I can cancel my reservation all on my phone through the app or otherwise. And then was faced with quite a bit of resistance because it was different and it was new and it took some of the control out of the hands of the owner. And so different components of that have kind of made it out to the public, and then there are some key components that have not quite made it out yet. So it’s really that balance of how do we meet guest expectations and owner expectations? But at the end of the day, we do have the responsibility to ensure our brand stays profitable and our owners are profitable. And so sometimes we do have to make those decisions that may not be as favorable to our owners, but are truly the best decision for the business. And it comes down a lot to training and education and really making sure they understand. So we have a great learning and development team, great communications team, a great project team that really ensures all of these initiatives come to fruition in the way they need to be successful. Ryan Embree: Well, and you also have, like you said, 50 properties that you own and manage, which I’m sure is a great kind of sandbox that you can play before you roll something out across the entire brand. But to put this in perspective for our listeners, you just mentioned that maybe there was some resistance to the online bookings that you were talking about, all the way to the owner that you were talking to me. I had to bring this up again, that there was drones bringing firewood to campsites at your property, right? So, I mean, that is the spectrum that you’re talking about. And I think that also is on the guest side. And that’s why probably, you and your team do such a great job of keeping your ear to the ground with these guests and constantly staying. I thought it was a fascinating stat that you talked about, Kim, where you’re saying that the first time campers are expecting more tech than maybe your returning campers or campers that have done that before. And I think that is a, it’s a telling statistic of, “Hey, we’re gonna try this for the first time. We’re gonna go camping.” And they’re coming to the camping site and being like, “All right, well, where’s the plugs and where’s the, the wifi and all that stuff?” Versus the campers that have been there have been like, “Oh, you, you’re camping. What are you talking about?” So interesting. Kim Wootteon: It’s a fun challenge. Cassady Quintana: I’m glad you mentioned that because when I think about it from a marketing perspective, you’ve talked about the different types of guests. You also have diverse owners, but you have diverse guests. When you think about hotels in the hotel industry, a lot of them have their niche and what they expect their demographic to look like when they come visit them. And so they can kind of cater that marketing a little bit better. But you have people ranging from children all the way up until boomers, and so they’re all expecting something different and they all want it to be exactly what they want. So when I think about it, I’m Gen Z, and this outdoor hospitality thing has really started to become a big thing for us. Like, whether it is because we wanna fully disconnect everything is too technologically advanced now, or I want a little bit of the best of both worlds. I wanna feel like I’m in nature, but also I can check my Instagram later if I really need to. So when you guys think about that from a marketing perspective, what do you think is driving that Gen Z interest, but also how do you develop a marketing strategy so that you can connect with those new campers and that, that younger generation? Kim Wootteon: Oh, my gosh. It’s a nonstop kind of everyday challenge that our teams work through at both the national level. How do we really connect the brand to people? I mean it’s so much of the success of our brand, and really camping and outdoor hospitality in general is built off of some, like, this emotional connection to nature and this desire to be outdoors. And how do we be part of that journey? And how can we be a catalyst to creating that experience for people, whether it’s their hundredth time camping or their first time camping? And there’s so many different tactics and strategies, within the marketing space that are available to us now. And it’s constantly evaluated with AI. We are traditionally rooted in SEO, and now we’ve got GEO to adapt to. But the Gen Z population within our camper mix is about 13% of all of our campers, as of 2025, and had been up to about 25% of our camper mix in 2022. So a really significant portion of all of those people that are participating in camping are in that Gen Z demographic. And it really comes down to doing a lot of research and understanding, what motivates people to connect to a brand, what’s important to them, whether it’s sustainability or looking at the health benefits from being outdoors, whether it’s the thrill of trying something new and really adventure-seeking, whether it’s we camped with our parents as kids, and we wanna try it again as adults. And the value proposition for, especially Gen Z is not to that point in life where you’re fully invested and you have a ton of disposable income. And so camping has always been a really affordable way to travel and leisure travel and experience and see things. So it’s this balance of how do we connect with each generation on the right channel? Social media plays a really critical role in our marketing strategy, having a presence across multiple platforms, Facebook, which tends to cater to a little bit more of our Gen X and baby boomer population, TikTok, Instagram, other channels for Gen Z. So social media plays a really key role, and we’ve seen a huge insurgence of social media conversions in our marketing strategy over the past several years. And then the technology piece of some of our generations like to pick up the phone and call and ask questions about their stay. And then others really just wanna be 100% booked online, make all of their change, and make all of their choices without any human connectivity. So finding that balance. But the, the Gen Z demographic is really fascinating. And I love watching how they use campgrounds. We see a lot of Gen Zers use campgrounds as that hub for all of their outdoor adventures, really wanting to spend time in nature and are utilizing a campground to facilitate that experience. Ryan Embree: This question is certainly resonating with me. I’m a little bit older millennial. I have a two and a five-year-old. And I remember camping as a kid. I wanna take my kids, but I also do not want to just maybe stay in a tent and not have any sort of. So, I want, I want that, that nice little balance of, yes, we are camping, but we might be going into a nice air-conditioned cabin or lodge, and we might be able to still watch a little TV. But I think it’s fascinating what we’re talking about, because that’s exactly it. And Gen Z, they’re great storytellers. Let me tell you about marketing. They’ll do most of your marketing for you if you put them in the right position, especially on Instagram and TikTok. Kim Wootteon: I’m really fortunate on my team. We have a really diverse team as well. And I have, I have kind of boomers and I have a ton of Gen Zers on my team. And so it’s great just to watch those generations meld and figure out how we, how we best connect to our owners and our audience. We spend a lot of time in the outdoors just as a team, when we have meetings and stuff like that. And I just love what comes from it. And then we take those best practices and really implement them with our guests because it’s, it’s the same. We all camp. Most of us in our team, we love spending time in the outdoors. So it’s like what’s gonna be attractive to us? We are our own demographics, right? Ryan Embree: <laugh> There you go. Well, I wanna shift gears and congratulate you and your team, the entire KOA team, recognized as one of the top 50 most profitable franchises by Franchisee Business Review. What do you think Kim, I mean, obviously, when we talk about franchises and we look at the ROI, but I think there’s probably a different type of reward that comes with having a KOA franchise, being obviously we look for that, that financial one, but also from kinda to build something meaningful. You talked about the legacy of some of your franchisees and that being a family business. We’ve talked about the close connection and memories that you get from camping. Well, first of all, congratulations, but what do you think you and your team did to kinda make that list? Kim Wootteon: Thank you. We’re really, really proud of this recognition. And I think it speaks to just the uniqueness of the brand. So we have a unique mix of brand standards and entrepreneurial spirit. KOA is a franchisor unlike no other, you know? And I’ve worked with a lot of the big franchisors, especially in our industry. I’ve worked with the Marriott brand and Hilton and IHG and Jellystone and Sun Outdoors. But what I think I love most about KOA, which makes it such an attractive business opportunity, is, we’re hyper-focused on quality. We’re hyper-focused on our brand position consistency. We have three brand positions within the KOA brand. We have the KOA journey, the KOA Holiday, and the KOA Resort to really help campers identify and connect with the experience they’re looking for. But what I love the most about our franchise that is different from a lot of others is that each location is truly unique to space and place, which fuels the creativity and the pride of our owners. So there are certain things that you will find very standard across the KOA portfolio, and there, there’s an expectation campers have with KOA, but every single location is unique. And that’s what makes the system of campgrounds truly special. You’re not gonna get the same overall experience at any two locations. And our owners take an immense amount of pride in understanding the market that they’re in, understanding their campers, and building an experience that drives them to come back and stay with the KOA brand and book again, and at the same time, is quite profitable. So that unique blend of uniqueness and standards is what really sets us apart. And I will say to you, I remember this, if I didn’t shout out just the incredible support that KOA offers its franchisees. Again, I’ve kind of worked with many franchisors, but the support that KOA offers is quite unique. I’m very, very proud to be part of that. We have an amazing field operations team, franchise operations team. We have a team of just passionate, dedicated franchise business coaches that are working with our owners every single day to help them truly grow their business and optimize their investment in the KOA brand and then their campground. We have a whole coaching team within commercial strategy focused on marketing and revenue, and how to maximize revenue and optimize profitability. And then multiple other departments across the organization that really, their customer is the franchisee. And so I think this is a really adequate representation of the hard work our team puts in to support our owners on a daily basis. Ryan Embree: Yeah. I mean, with a, such a complex ecosystem that we kind of talked about throughout this episode, it’s a true testament to the work you and your team are putting in to be recognized. So again, congratulations to you and your team on that. We’re gonna shift gears. This is the rapid fire portion of our episode. I love doing this and I was looking forward to your portfolio specifically. You’re no stranger to travel, Kim, you’ve already mentioned. So we’re gonna get to list a series or a series of questions to get to know you and the KOA portfolio a little bit better. So let’s start with favorite view at one of your properties. Kim Wootteon: Yeah. So, and just for the record, so I have been to well over 100, almost 200 KOAs across our systems. I’ve been really fortunate to see a lot of our portfolio with some amazing, amazing properties and experiences. But I was just recently at the campground in Fredericksburg, Texas, which is under construction. We are building it and it’ll be introduced to the KOA system this fall. But the view from The Overlook, which is sort of our main building in the back part of the campground with all of our food and beverage and our meeting space and our pool and our lazy river, the view is absolutely spectacular overlooking the entire campground. The sunsets are great, and it was just, it was a really magical moment. Cassady Quintana: Awesome. Ryan, write that down. We gotta take a look at when that one opens up. Ryan Embree: Yeah, for sure. Kim Wootteon: You’ve gotta come experience it. And, and Ryan, we do have some amazing glamping accommodations, so you’ll get all of the amenities of home and a really cool outdoor setting. Ryan Embree: Love it. Best both worlds, for sure. Cassady Quintana: All right, Kim, favorite fun fact about one of your properties? Kim Wootteon: Oh my gosh. There’s so many options because we have such a diverse portfolio. But one of the things we learned as we were prepping for America 250 and just kind of learning our history is the Mystic KOA campground in Connecticut has a house on property that wasn’t built in the United States. It actually existed before the United States existed. It was brought over as settlers have founded that area. And it’s still standing on our campground today. And there’s a lot of history with that property. Ryan Embree: So it’s one of my favorite questions to ask, just because you get to learn these, these stories that you would have no idea about. Very, very cool. What about favorite guest experience or amenities at one of your properties, Kim? Kim Wootteon: So, the Mount Rushmore KOA Resort at Palmer Gulch has a rodeo, like a full-on rodeo. <laugh> So that’s a crazy thing to experience. The campground in South Padre Island is right near SpaceX, and we just built these beautiful, RV sites, along this peninsula on the water, so you can see the SpaceX launches. And then there’s simple things like blueberry picking in covert and just amazing hiking near some of our National Park properties. Cassady Quintana: Awesome. Something for everybody. There’s something for everybody at every different property. Yeah. So kind of with that in mind, what’s one of your favorite locations of your properties? Kim Wootteon: So it’s funny. So I am a camper myself and I love to spend time outdoors. And I have kind of this unique mix of properties that I love to visit because, every time I camp, I look for a different experience. So I love, like, Lake Placid, KOA, it’s just that, like, quintessential camping experience, really, really wooded and nature-driven. If I’m looking for just incredible beauty with really, really amiditized recreation, I love the Astoria KOA on the Oregon Coast. If I want a tropical resort retreat, I go to Sugarloaf KOA or Fort Myers KOA. So it’s just, it’s. I don’t know. I can’t pick one. I love too many of them, which is my problem and why I’m always on the road and traveling. <laugh>. Cassady Quintana: It’s a good problem to have. Kim Wootteon: Exactly. I know, right? Ryan Embree: That’s what I was gonna say. <laugh>. Well, we appreciate you playing along with us. As we wrap up today, we always have kind of a tradition to, especially, with some of our industry leaders that we get the opportunity to speak to multiple times. You teased back in March, you had working on that revamped website that we talked about you formed a new AI team. What’s the status of those projects? And then maybe just looking into the future, what’s your vision for, for KOA as we wrap. Can’t believe I’m saying this. Wrap up 2026 and go into 2027. Kim Wootteon: Oh, my gosh. Yes. We, we are really hyper-focused on 2027 right now as a leadership team, which is crazy. I’m like, we’re all happy through 2026. But yeah, we ha – we’ve had a ton of really large projects this year as a brand, and really in, in that vein of trying to modernize our brand to meet the guest expectation, the owner expectations, and stay that, brand of choice. Both of our projects, the development of our AR team and the rebuild, redesign, and launch of our new website, as well as campground landing pages and a new content management system are going incredibly well. We are on track to launch in Q4 with a slew of continued enhancements throughout 2027. A lot of really AI-focused efforts for koa.com, specifically in trip planning and just communication on a site, as well as personalization. We know that that’s so important. How does a guest land on the site and how is everything really customized and tailored to what they’re looking for and what their needs are and how they’ve came to before? So those two teams have been really, really critical in, in the rollout of this project. And selfishly for me, the AI team does a, a lot of work with our internal teams, and how do we impl – improve the employee experience? So the work they’ve been doing just, I mean, so many efficiencies for my role and so many other roles across the organization around really quick access to data within our KOA ecosystem. Like every bit of data I could ever want to access is available through our AI platform. I am able to ask questions quickly, research things quicker, and really get to an end result, which makes the analysis of our business so much easier in identifying trends and opportunities. So those two pieces are just really game changers, not only for our brand, but in the industry right now. And 2077 is stacking up to be a pretty, pretty insane year as well, with just really double down focusing on how do we continue to attract guests, retain guests, really strong focus on that short-term leisure RV camper, and kind of that mash of how do we take all of our legacy campers and all of these new campers and really just exceed expectations to grow the business next year. Ryan Embree: Wel like I said, a true embodiment, a brand that is truly trailblazing in hospitality. So wish you luck with all of those projects. We’ll have to keep a close eye on which campgrounds we’ll do an onsite. I still haven’t given up on that dream of doing – Kim Wootteon: No, we’re, we’re gonna get you outdoors, Ryan. <laugh> Ryan Embree: Let’s do it. I’m, I’m looking forward to it. I can’t, I can’t wait. So, Kim, we know you’re busy. Thank you so much for taking the time to join me and Cassady here on The Suite Spot. Kim Wootteon: Yes, thank you both. It’s a pleasure. Cassady Quintana: Thanks, Kim. Ryan Embree: All right. Thanks, everyone. And thank you for listening to Suite Spot. We’ll talk to you next time. To join our loyalty program, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Suite Spot is produced by Travel Media Group. Our editor is Brandon Bell with cover art by Bary Gordon. I’m your host, Ryan Embree, and we hope you enjoyed your stay.