Speaking of Alternatives

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May 2026

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Speaking of Alternatives is an original podcast from PGIM, providing a global perspective on the rich and diverse landscape of alternative investments. Each month, leading experts cut through the complexities and get to the heart of alternative investing. Together they look beyond the headlines and scrutinise the latest trends and strategies driving this important asset class.

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May 20, 202626 min

… Let's Talk Lower Middle Market Direct Lending

Lower middle market direct lending remains one of the most structurally underserved segments in private credit. As traditional banks have stepped back, specialist lenders are playing an increasingly important role in providing capital to established, sponsor-backed businesses. In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan is joined by Tas Hasan, Managing Partner and Chief Operating Officer at Deerpath Capital, PGIM's lower middle market direct lending platform. Together, they explore the concept of the "missing middle" in private markets, how Deerpath sources and underwrites opportunities at scale, and why discipline, consistency and relationships remain central to success in this segment. Tas also shares perspectives on today's opportunity set, the role of covenants in credit investing, and how lenders are thinking about emerging themes such as AI through the lens of cash flow durability. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: ● What Lower Middle Market Direct Lending Is and Why It Matters – [03:00] ● The "Missing Middle" Opportunity in Private Credit – [04:00] ● Why Structural Inefficiencies Continue to Support the Opportunity Set – [07:00] ● Understanding AI Risk Through Cash Flow Durability – [10:00] ● The Importance of Covenants as a Tool for Active Risk Management – [17:00] ● How Sponsors Influence Outcomes in Lower Middle Market Lending – [21:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "Lower middle market lending is not a niche — it's a large part of the market that has simply been under-served." — Tas Hasan "As a lender, our job isn't to predict the future — it's to protect against what can go wrong." — Tas Hasan "In direct lending, covenants are not about control, they're about early engagement." — Tas Hasan "Lower middle market lending is not a niche — it's a large part of the market that has simply been under-served." — Tas Hasan

April 21, 202619 min

… Let's Talk MCP 2025 Annual Investor Survey

Private equity secondaries have grown from a niche strategy into a core allocation for investors navigating volatility, slower exits and liquidity constraints. As markets evolve, secondaries are increasingly seen as an "all‑weather" approach to private equity exposure. In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan is joined by Dan Klima, Managing Partner at Montana Capital Partners (MCP), the private equity secondaries platform of PGIM. Anchored by MCP's latest annual investor survey, Dan shares how investors are responding to the changing private equity exit environment. Together, they explore why the middle market remains a particularly compelling opportunity set and how co‑investments and seasoned portfolios can help improve cash flow profiles and mitigate the J‑curve. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: ● Why Secondaries Are Viewed as an "All-Weather" Strategy – [05:30] ● Insights from MCP's Annual Investor Survey: Allocations and Volatility – [06:30] ● Why the Middle Market Is a Sweet Spot for Value Creation – [11:30] ● How Co-Investments Enhance Efficiency, Due Diligence and Cash Flows – [14:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "Private equity secondaries are fundamentally about providing liquidity to an illiquid asset, and doing so across market cycles." — Dan Klima "Our investor survey shows that confidence in secondaries remains strong, even amid prolonged volatility." — Dan Klima "Secondaries can offer instant diversification, J‑curve mitigation and more consistent cash flows." — Dan Klima "The middle market can provide greater optionality for both value creation and exits." — Dan Klima

March 17, 202621 min

… Let's Talk RealAssetX

Real assets are undergoing a profound transformation. Once viewed as a traditional "buy‑and‑hold" asset class, they're now shaped by operational complexity, AI, energy systems, climate pressures and rapid technological convergence. As these forces accelerate, investors are increasingly asking: what does it take to stay ahead? In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan sits down with Naqash Tahir, Managing Director, Research, Development and Investments at RealAssetX, PGIM's innovation lab for real assets. They explore how RealAssetX was built to bridge the worlds of academia, venture capital and institutional investors, and why PGIM chose to create an upstream platform focused on research, validation and innovation before product design. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: ● How Academia, Startups and Investors Form the Innovation Ecosystem – [06:00] ● From Concept to Application: AI-driven HVAC Optimisation – [15:00] ● What the Market Isn't Pricing In: AI, ESG Value Transfer & Tokenisation – [13:00] ● What's Next for RealAssetX: Global Expansion & Ready-to-Scale Technologies – [17:30] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "Real assets are no longer passive, they're operational, data driven systems shaped by AI, climate and infrastructure convergence." — Naqash Tahir "To innovate in real assets, you need academia, startups and institutional capital working together. That's the ecosystem RealAssetX was built for." — Naqash Tahir "The biggest risk in innovation is doing nothing. Failing fast is how you learn, adapt and stay ahead of the market." — Naqash Tahir "The market still prices buildings like it's 2010. AI is creating NOI uplift that almost no one has modelled in yet." — Naqash Tahir

February 17, 202626 min

… Let's Talk Private Credit Secondaries

Private credit secondaries are quickly becoming one of the most talked about opportunities in private markets. As the asset class grows rapidly, investors are looking for new ways to gain exposure, manage liquidity and enhance returns. In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan sits down with Alex Stuart, Head of Private Credit Secondaries at PGIM, to unpack what's behind the surge in interest. They explore how the strategy works, what makes this moment compelling, and why secondaries are increasingly viewed as a natural complement to primary direct lending. From diversification and discounts to market structure and competitive dynamics, Alex breaks down the mechanics of the asset class, and why he believes we're still in the very early stages of its evolution. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: ● What Are Private Credit Secondaries and Why They're Growing – [03:00] ● How the Strategy Enhances Diversification and Portfolio Construction – [04:00] ● Why the Market Is Expanding: Scale, Liquidity and Cost of Capital – [06:00] ● What Makes Entry Points Attractive Today: Discounts & Downside Protection – [08:00] ● The Role of Scale and Competition in GP‑Led Transactions – [25:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/

January 20, 202625 min

…Let's Talk Investment Grade Private Placements

In a world where fixed income markets are evolving, investment grade private placements stand out as a powerful tool for diversification and stability. This episode explores why these instruments remain a cornerstone for insurers, pension schemes, and long-term investors. Keshav Rajagopalan speaks with Mike Campion, Managing Director and Portfolio Manager for PGIM, Private Credit, about the role of investment grade private placements in today's fixed income portfolios. From the benefits of direct origination and diversification to the importance of covenants and risk management, Mike shares insights on why private placements continue to be a compelling choice for institutional investors. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: - What Are Private Placements and Why They Matter for Fixed Income Portfolios – [03:00] - The Case for Private Placements Today: Yield, Diversification and Stability – [07:00] - Investor Interest Across Regions and Segments: From Insurers to Pension Schemes – [09:00] - Risk Management: Why Covenants and Underwriting Discipline Are Critical – [19:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim

December 17, 202522 min

…Let's Talk Highlights from the PGIM EMEA Investor Forum

Recalibrating resilience was the dominant theme at PGIM's sixth annual EMEA Investor Forum in London. In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan shares key insights from sessions on private credit, structured fixed income, digital infrastructure, and CIO perspectives on resilience and long-term portfolio design. From the evolution of private credit into a core allocation to the role of securitisation in financing growth, and the impact of AI on infrastructure demand, this episode explores how institutional investors are rethinking liquidity, flexibility, and resilience in a world of structural change. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: - Private Credit: From Niche to Core – [02:00] - Structured Fixed Income and Securitisation in Europe – [06:00] - Digital Infrastructure and AI: Financing the Future – [12:00] - CIO Perspectives on Resilience and Systemic Risks – [15:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "Securitisation isn't a silver bullet, but it's a critical lever for financing Europe's growth." — Edwin Wilches "Private credit has evolved from a niche allocation to a core pillar of institutional portfolios." — Tom McCartan "AI is here to stay. It will transform our lives, but the infrastructure build-out brings both opportunity and risk." — Morgan Laughlin

November 18, 202524 min

…Let's Talk Energy Mezzanine with Brian Thomas

Energy mezzanine financing occupies a unique position between credit and equity, offering growing companies access to capital without diluting ownership. In this episode, Brian Thomas, Head of Real Assets, Private Credit at PGIM, joins Keshav Rajagopalan to explore the specialised world of energy mezzanine investing. They discuss why this niche strategy matters, how it fits into institutional portfolios, and what's driving demand across conventional energy, power, and renewables. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: - Energy mezzanine financing bridges the gap between senior debt and equity, providing tailored capital solutions for mid-sized companies. – [04:00] - The energy sector is shifting from rapid growth to a more disciplined, cash-flow-focused phase, creating opportunities for mezzanine capital. – [06:00] - Financing solutions must align with step-change risk moments, matching capital to project milestones rather than long-term assumptions. – [11:00] - Mezzanine financing is increasingly relevant in renewables and power, helping developers avoid equity dilution while meeting tight deadlines. – [15:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "Energy mezzanine financing is about solving a very specific need—providing capital without forcing companies to dilute ownership at critical growth stages." - Brian Thomas, Head of Real Assets, Private Credit, PGIM "The energy sector is dynamic, and mezzanine capital gives us the flexibility to tailor solutions for companies navigating step-change risk moments." - Brian Thomas, Head of Real Assets, Private Credit, PGIM "These are not off-the-rack solutions. Energy mezzanine investing requires deep sector knowledge and bespoke structuring to create real value." - Brian Thomas, Head of Real Assets, Private Credit, PGIM

October 21, 202525 min

…Let's Talk Asset-Based Financing with Edwin Wilches

In this episode, Edwin Wilches, Co-Head of Securitised Products at PGIM, joins Keshav Rajagopalan, to explore the dynamic and fast-evolving world of Asset-Based Finance (ABF). As traditional boundaries between public and private credit continue to blur, they discuss how ABF is emerging as a powerful tool for financing the real economy, offering institutional investors new avenues for diversification, yield, and portfolio resilience. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: • Regulatory shifts and evolving market structures are driving growth in the US, Europe, and beyond – [06:00] • Institutional investors are turning to ABF for diversification, enhanced yield, and scalable solutions - [07:00] • Capital demand is rising in areas such as AI infrastructure, data centers, and fund finance. – [15:00] • Contractual cash flows are central to ABF's appeal for seeking to improve risk-adjusted portfolio returns – [22:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "We're financing the real economy. That's what makes this space so exciting—it's not just about returns, it's about impact."— Edwin Wilches, Co-Head of Securitised Products at PGIM "Contractual cash flows are the foundation of ABF. That's what makes it compelling for insurers, pensions, and other institutions." — Edwin Wilches, Co-Head of Securitised Products at PGIM "Lending where there is a supply-demand imbalance of capital -- that's where compelling risk-adjusted returns could be found.— Edwin Wilches, Co-Head of Securitised Products at PGIM

September 16, 202526 min

…Let's Talk Alternatives in Global Wealth with Stuart Parker and Dominick Carlino

Laurie Chan is joined by Stuart Parker, Head of Global Wealth at PGIM, and Dominick Carlino, Global Head of Alternative Investments for Global Wealth at PGIM. Together, they explore the intersection of private wealth and alternative investments, offering perspectives on the ways investors are broadening portfolios beyond traditional markets. Their discussion covers the trends driving growth, the importance of education, and how innovation is reshaping access. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: • Private Wealth Is Driving the Next Wave of Growth in Alternatives – [05:00] • Democratisation of Private Markets Is Expanding Access – [09:00] • Education Is a Key Enabler for Integrating Alternatives into Portfolios – [08:00] • Product Innovation and Evergreen Structures Are Reshaping the Landscape – [14:00] *The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect current opinions. This content is not investment advice.* Learn More: • @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim • @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/ • PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim Shareables: "The ability to offer high-net-worth clients the liquidity and transparency of alternatives is exactly where asset managers are going." — Stuart Parker, Head of Global Wealth at PGIM "Alternatives are surging powered by product innovation, supportive policy and investor appetite." — Dominick Carlino, Global Head of Alternative Investments for Wealth at PGIM "Education is key. We've moved from 'what are alternatives' to 'how do I incorporate them into a portfolio?" — Dominick Carlino, Global Head of Alternative Investments for Wealth at PGIM "The convergence of public and private markets is creating a continuum of opportunities for investors to access value across liquidity profiles." — Dominick Carlino, Global Head of Alternative Investments for Wealth at PGIM

August 20, 202527 min

…Let's Talk Defined Contribution with Josh Cohen, Managing Director of PGIM's DC Solutions

Josh Cohen, Managing Director of PGIM's DC Solutions team, offers insights into the rapidly evolving defined contribution landscape and how alternatives may play an increasingly important role in this space. Keshav and Josh discuss the compelling arguments for integrating alternative assets into DC plans. As global policymakers evaluate the role of alternative investments in customised solutions, they consider the challenges that must be addressed. Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform. Key Takeaways: ● Preserving Financial Futures in DC. [3:01] ● Policy Initiatives & Alternative Investments in DC. [7:53] ● DC Headwinds Include Operational Complexities & an Environment of Litigation. [11:37] ● Alternative Allocations in Defined Contributions. [18:53] ● Summing Up: Key Takeaways. [23:56] *The views expressed herein are those of the speaker at the time the comments were made and may not be reflective of their current opinions and are subject to change without notice, and should not be considered investment advice. Find Out More About Alternative Investing: The Accidental Plan Sponsor Podcast: The Down Under Edition realestate.investorservices.emea@pgim.com @PGIM on X @PGIM on Instagram PGIM on LinkedIn Shareables: "We are doing a lot of this for the endworkers, savers, and retirees, and we know the solutions that we're working towards have a meaningful impact on their retirement readiness." — Josh Cohen, Managing Director of PGIM's DC Solutions team #PGIMPodcasts #investing "The preferred application for investments in DC plans, specifically for alternative assets, is in multi-asset strategies." — Josh Cohen, Managing Director of PGIM's DC Solutions team #PGIMPodcasts #investing #investing #alternativeinvesting "We need to be careful about bucketing all alternative assets into one segment. They impact a portfolio differently." — Josh Cohen, Managing Director of PGIM's DC Solutions team #PGIMPodcasts #investing #investing #institutionalnvesting