Smarter Marketer

Hosted by James Lawrence

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130

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Oct 2026

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Hosted by James Lawrence - Co-Founder of Rocket Agency and B&T Marketer of the Year finalist, each episode features candid conversations with marketers, leaders and innovators on what’s really working in today’s fast-changing landscape. This is the definitive podcast for Australian Marketers.

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October 21, 202639 min

121. How to Get Your Agency to Do Its Best Work w. Rocket Agency's Roeya Arzani

Two clients can pay the same agency the same amount of money, work with exactly the same people and get very different results. One gets exceptional work while the other gets regular output. Why? And what can in-house marketers do to get the very best from their agency? In this episode, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket Agency’s Head of Client Services, Roeya Arzani, to explore what separates clients who get extraordinary value from those who don’t. They discuss better briefing, avoiding micromanagement, building trust and creating the conditions for exceptional work. Whether you work with a digital, creative, media or PR agency, this episode will help you get more from that relationship. Key takeaways Why giving your agency a task instead of a problem might be costing you its best ideas. What spending a full day inside a client’s business taught us that no written brief could. Why the fifth round of feedback on an ad headline might be doing more harm than good. How your agency can help you convince your CEO to increase your marketing budget. The uncomfortable question: Does your agency team actually like working with you? Why having one clear decision-maker on the client side can dramatically improve agency performance. Why the best agency relationships focus on one meaningful business metric rather than dozens of marketing KPIs. About the guest Roeya Arzani is Head of Client Services at Rocket Agency, where she leads the team responsible for building and managing relationships with Rocket’s clients. Having joined Rocket six years ago as an Account Manager, Roeya has worked closely with in-house marketing teams across a wide range of industries, helping them develop strategies, deliver campaigns and get more value from their agency relationships. Connect with Roeya on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

October 6, 202635 min

120. GEO/AEO, AI Overviews and ChatGPT Ads: Answers to Australian Marketers’ Most Pressing AI Search Questions

GEO/AEO, AI Overviews and ChatGPT Ads are changing how customers find, research and choose brands. In this episode, Host and Co-Founder of Rocket Agency, James Lawrence, is joined by Rocket's Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, and Head of Paid Media, Sam Lucas, to explain where AI search stands in Australia right now and to answer the questions marketers are asking most. Key Takeaways: How quickly Australians have adopted AI tools, and how much they influence purchase decisions Why Google search volume is at record highs even as clicks fall Where ChatGPT Ads are up to in Australia Should you still be investing in Google Ads? How do you measure AI search and prove it's working to your C-suite? Which GEO tracking tools are worth using? SEO or GEO: which should you prioritise, and why? How to write content for both humans and AI Guests: Joe Alder, Head of SEO & GEO, Rocket Agency Joe leads Rocket's SEO and GEO offering. He shapes the agency's product and processes in organic and AI search, and he hires, trains and mentors the team that delivers them. His focus is getting clients results in Google and across AI platforms like ChatGPT, Gemini and Claude. Sam Lucas, Head of Paid Media, Rocket Agency Sam oversees Rocket's full suite of paid channels and leads and mentors the paid media team. He also works on GEO projects with clients, where he connects AI search visibility to paid opportunities like ChatGPT Ads and the AI placements in Google and Microsoft Ads. You can follow Joe and Sam on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

September 22, 202643 min

119. Why Marketing is About Behaviour Change w. Thinkerbell's Dan Monheit

Most marketing briefs never mention behaviour. They mention a product launch, a credit card switch, a new vehicle landing next month. Dan Monheit's argument is that every one of them is the same brief wearing a different outfit: you want someone to do something they're not currently doing. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence and Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell, discuss which biases suit which problems, why the best in-house marketers are really pitch people in client roles, what happens to brand building when a third of your audience asks an LLM first and more. Key Takeaways: How Dan ended up in behavioural science by coming at it backwards, from advertising rather than academia Why he thinks every brief is a behaviour change brief Why you should put the customer and the brand on equal footing, rather than the customer first The peak-end rule, and why the last experience shapes how people remember everything Effort bias: why invisible work is worthless work Why people can't reliably tell you why they buy things How the best in-house marketers build a business case that actually lands Where AI helps and where it costs you: writing to communicate vs writing to think What LLMs change for brand building and the consideration set Guest: Dan Monheit is Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and one of Australia's most recognised voices on behavioural science in marketing. He co-founded Hardhat in 2005, straight out of uni, and spent fifteen years reinventing it before landing on the idea that held it all together: every brief is a behaviour change brief. Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell in 2024. You can follow Dan on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

September 8, 202638 min

118. LinkedIn Ads in 2026 - Targeting, Creative and How to Avoid Common Mistakes w. B2Linked's AJ Wilcox

AJ Wilcox, founder of a US-based LinkedIn Ads agency, has run five of LinkedIn’s top 10 highest-spending accounts of all time and audited hundreds of accounts. He sees the same five mistakes that are often the difference between accounts that perform and don’t; simple fixes that most advertisers never think to check. In this episode, he joins Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder, James Lawrence, to walk through what's actually moving the needle on LinkedIn in 2026; from the settings worth double-checking, to why "thought leader ads" are outperforming company posts by 5x on engagement, to the connection between a strong LinkedIn presence and visibility in LLMs like ChatGPT and Claude. Key Takeaways: How AJ went from a first-week LinkedIn pilot to running the platform's biggest-ever spending account Five settings worth reviewing in every LinkedIn ads account: geography, audience expansion, network placements, bidding method, and suggested bid ranges Why a post from a person consistently outperforms a post from a brand, and a simple way to get executives producing months of content in one sitting A colour theory approach to static creative that helps ads stand out against LinkedIn's blue-and-white interface Why B2Linked doesn't run LinkedIn ads for its own business and what that says about the relationship between organic and paid The CRM integrations most teams underuse, and why manual lead follow-up is costing more than people realise Why LLMs are emerging as a real lead source and the simple form-field fix that gets them properly credited Guest: AJ Wilcox is the Founder of B2Linked, a LinkedIn Ads-only agency that helps B2B marketers get better results from their LinkedIn campaigns. AJ has worked with 5 of LinkedIn’s top 10 spending accounts and managed over $150 million in LinkedIn ad spend. He is a trusted expert in LinkedIn Ads and has spoken at more than 80 industry events and appeared on over 200 podcasts. You can follow AJ on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

August 25, 202646 min

117. Julian Cole's Blueprint for Strategy That Sticks

The real test of a solid marketing strategy is whether you understand it well enough to stress-test it, and actually use it to make a decision when it counts. And now that AI can spit out a "strategic" brief in seconds, that distinction matters more. Looking strategic and being strategic are not the same thing, and it’s starting to become obvious. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with renowned strategist Julian Cole, Founder of Strategy Finishing School and someone who's spent his career inside the rooms where PlayStation, Snickers and M&M's strategies were crafted to talk about what good strategy really looks like and where genuinely pivotal insights actually come from. Key Takeaways: Julian's path from social and digital strategy in Australia to running strategy teams at BBH and BBDO in New York Why nailing the fundamentals matters more in an AI-powered world as the tools get ‘smarter’ and the bar for judgment goes up How to use AI as a sparring partner for strategy The four essential ingredients of any strategy: the goal, the problem, the insight and the solution Untangling business strategy, marketing strategy, brand strategy and creative strategy: what each actually does, and how they fit together What separates a genuine consumer insight from a nice-sounding observation, and why the best ones change how you see the problem entirely Practical, unglamorous ways to find insights you can get started with today War stories from behind the scenes on PlayStation and Snickers How smaller marketing teams can think more strategically without a dedicated strategist on staff Why the best strategies boil down to one clear idea that can guide creative, brand and marketing decisions Guest: Julian Cole is a strategy consultant and the founder of Strategy Finishing School. He's worked with global brands including Apple, Uber, Meta and Disney, and held senior strategy roles at BBH and BBDO in New York, where he worked on campaigns for PlayStation, Snickers, Bacardi, Mountain Dew and M&M's. Through Strategy Finishing School, he's helped thousands of strategists and marketers build the skills to develop, communicate and defend an effective marketing strategy. You can follow Julian on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

August 11, 202630 min

116. What High-Performing Marketers Do Differently w. Neon Ambition's Jordan Slover

Rocket Agency's Co-Founder and podcast host, James Lawrence, sits down with US-based agency-owner Jordan Slover to explore the common traits they’ve seen across high-performing marketers and marketing teams, drawing on 50 years combined experience working with over 500 businesses in Australia, the UK and the USA. Key Takeaways: Why clarity about what success looks like helps marketers stay focused Why chasing every new platform, tool or tactic can do more harm than good How a strong understanding of brand can improve long-term marketing performance Why staying close to customers is one of the most valuable things a marketer can do How genuinely considering the advice of specialists and building trust leads to stronger agency partnerships Why relentless curiosity and a genuine desire to learn are essential marketing traits How reading widely and staying across news and culture can make you a better marketer Why marketers shouldn’t rely on AI to assess strategies without applying context and critical thinking Guest: Jordan Slover began his digital marketing career at Google, working in New York and London before moving to Australia. He later returned to the United States and founded Neon Ambition, a lead generation and digital marketing agency that works primarily with professional services businesses. Neon Ambition has appeared on the Inc. 5000 list of America’s fastest-growing private companies for three consecutive years. You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

July 28, 202644 min

115. How to Win in AI Search: Proven Tactics and Research Across ChatGPT, Gemini & Google AI w. Joe Alder

AI search has moved far beyond theory. 14.3 million Australians now use ChatGPT, Gemini and Google AI Overviews to research and decide which brands they trust, often before they ever visit a website. But most marketers are still measuring the wrong metrics and applying SEO tactics that don’t fully translate to AI search. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack exactly what Rocket has learnt after three years of research, studying the landscape, testing and optimising brands for AI search. Rather than discussing AI at a high level, this episode dives into the practical strategies that are delivering results today, including technical fixes, content strategy, brand sentiment, AI measurement and the framework Rocket uses with clients to improve visibility across different AI search tools. Key takeaways: Why AI search is already changing how customers buy The STAR framework Rocket uses to build GEO strategies The technical issues quietly preventing AI platforms from accessing many websites Why trust, reviews and third-party sources matter more than ever How to improve the information AI platforms use when describing your business Why AI referral traffic dramatically understates AI’s real commercial impact The metrics marketers should actually be measuring Real examples of brands improving AI visibility through practical changes Guest: Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini. You can follow Joe on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

July 14, 202639 min

114. Marketing's Credibility Problem: What Attribution Gets Wrong and Incrementality Gets Right w. Analytic Partners’ Paul Sinkinson

Marketing teams have never had more data available to them, yet many still find it hard (often harder than ever) to confidently answer a simple question: what’s actually driving growth? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder and Host James Lawrence sits down with Paul Sinkinson, Managing Director for APAC at Analytic Partners, to explore how marketing measurement is evolving and where marketers still get it wrong. They discuss why incrementality remains one of the most misunderstood concepts in marketing and how leading brands are balancing short-term optimisation with long-term growth. Key Takeaways: What has changed in marketing measurement over the past two years and why marketers are adopting a more holistic approach The growing challenge of fragmented platform measurement and conflicting data sources How marketers should think about attribution today and where it still provides value What incrementality really means and why it matters more than most marketers realise How marketers can build credibility with CFOs and leadership teams through better measurement Why some brands gain market share during economic downturns while others pull back How fast-growing brands can transition from performance-led growth to investing in future demand Paul’s predictions on the future of measurement, brand building and distinctive brand assets Guest: Paul Sinkinson is the Managing Director of Sydney-based global marketing consultancy Analytic Partners, which delivers customised analytics that improve sales and marketing ROI. He has over 20 years of marketing analytics experience across many of Australia’s leading brands, and was previously a Partner at the Leading Edge, and Director at Nielsen, to name a few. Follow Paul on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

June 30, 202639 min

113. James Hurman on Building Future Demand: Creativity, Brand and Escaping the ‘Performance Trap’

Most marketers are under pressure to deliver results fast. But when all of the focus goes into capturing demand that already exists, businesses eventually limit their ability to grow. Sustainable growth comes from balancing the customers ready to buy today with those who will enter the market tomorrow. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with marketing effectiveness expert, entrepreneur and author James Hurman to unpack the ideas behind his new book, Future Demand. Together, they explore why so many businesses fall into the performance trap, what future demand actually means, why creativity remains one of marketing's most powerful growth levers, and how marketers can better communicate the value of long-term investment to CEOs, CFOs and boards. Visit: futuredemand.com Key Takeaways: Why businesses that focus only on short-term performance eventually hit a growth ceiling The ‘performance trap’ and how marketing teams unintentionally create it The role creativity plays in capturing the attention of future buyers Why marketers need to become better at communicating marketing's value internally Practical ways to build support for long-term marketing investment across leadership teams How companies can gradually shift from performance-only marketing to a more balanced growth strategy Guest: James Hurman is one of the world’s leading experts on marketing and advertising effectiveness. A former strategic planner, James has won more than 50 advertising effectiveness awards and was named the world’s number one strategic planning director in 2013. He is the co-founder of Tracksuit, Senior Advisor at Lions Advisory, Program Director of the Master of Advertising Effectiveness and author of Future Demand. You can follow James on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

June 16, 202649 min

112. State of the Pitch 2026 - How To Find The Right Agency Partner w. TrinityP3’s Darren Woolley

Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning. Read: The State of the Pitch Report Key Takeaways: The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch report Why agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly high The impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputation Why defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selection How AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scoping The ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch process When marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomes The role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrong How marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signed Best-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch process Guest: Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director. You can follow Darren on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm