Smarter Marketer

Hosted by James Lawrence

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125

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Aug 2026

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Hosted by James Lawrence - Co-Founder of Rocket Agency and B&T Marketer of the Year finalist, each episode features candid conversations with marketers, leaders and innovators on what’s really working in today’s fast-changing landscape. This is the definitive podcast for Australian Marketers.

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August 11, 202630 min

116. What High-Performing Marketers Do Differently w. Neon Ambition's Jordan Slover

Rocket Agency's Co-Founder and podcast host, James Lawrence, sits down with US-based agency-owner Jordan Slover to explore the common traits they’ve seen across high-performing marketers and marketing teams, drawing on 50 years combined experience working with over 500 businesses in Australia, the UK and the USA. Key Takeaways: Why clarity about what success looks like helps marketers stay focused Why chasing every new platform, tool or tactic can do more harm than good How a strong understanding of brand can improve long-term marketing performance Why staying close to customers is one of the most valuable things a marketer can do How genuinely considering the advice of specialists and building trust leads to stronger agency partnerships Why relentless curiosity and a genuine desire to learn are essential marketing traits How reading widely and staying across news and culture can make you a better marketer Why marketers shouldn’t rely on AI to assess strategies without applying context and critical thinking Guest: Jordan Slover began his digital marketing career at Google, working in New York and London before moving to Australia. He later returned to the United States and founded Neon Ambition, a lead generation and digital marketing agency that works primarily with professional services businesses. Neon Ambition has appeared on the Inc. 5000 list of America’s fastest-growing private companies for three consecutive years. You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

July 28, 202644 min

115. How to Win in AI Search: Proven Tactics and Research Across ChatGPT, Gemini & Google AI w. Joe Alder

AI search has moved far beyond theory. 14.3 million Australians now use ChatGPT, Gemini and Google AI Overviews to research and decide which brands they trust, often before they ever visit a website. But most marketers are still measuring the wrong metrics and applying SEO tactics that don’t fully translate to AI search. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack exactly what Rocket has learnt after three years of research, studying the landscape, testing and optimising brands for AI search. Rather than discussing AI at a high level, this episode dives into the practical strategies that are delivering results today, including technical fixes, content strategy, brand sentiment, AI measurement and the framework Rocket uses with clients to improve visibility across different AI search tools. Key takeaways: Why AI search is already changing how customers buy The STAR framework Rocket uses to build GEO strategies The technical issues quietly preventing AI platforms from accessing many websites Why trust, reviews and third-party sources matter more than ever How to improve the information AI platforms use when describing your business Why AI referral traffic dramatically understates AI’s real commercial impact The metrics marketers should actually be measuring Real examples of brands improving AI visibility through practical changes Guest: Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini. You can follow Joe on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

July 14, 202639 min

114. Marketing's Credibility Problem: What Attribution Gets Wrong and Incrementality Gets Right w. Analytic Partners’ Paul Sinkinson

Marketing teams have never had more data available to them, yet many still find it hard (often harder than ever) to confidently answer a simple question: what’s actually driving growth? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder and Host James Lawrence sits down with Paul Sinkinson, Managing Director for APAC at Analytic Partners, to explore how marketing measurement is evolving and where marketers still get it wrong. They discuss why incrementality remains one of the most misunderstood concepts in marketing and how leading brands are balancing short-term optimisation with long-term growth. Key Takeaways: What has changed in marketing measurement over the past two years and why marketers are adopting a more holistic approach The growing challenge of fragmented platform measurement and conflicting data sources How marketers should think about attribution today and where it still provides value What incrementality really means and why it matters more than most marketers realise How marketers can build credibility with CFOs and leadership teams through better measurement Why some brands gain market share during economic downturns while others pull back How fast-growing brands can transition from performance-led growth to investing in future demand Paul’s predictions on the future of measurement, brand building and distinctive brand assets Guest: Paul Sinkinson is the Managing Director of Sydney-based global marketing consultancy Analytic Partners, which delivers customised analytics that improve sales and marketing ROI. He has over 20 years of marketing analytics experience across many of Australia’s leading brands, and was previously a Partner at the Leading Edge, and Director at Nielsen, to name a few. Follow Paul on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

June 30, 202639 min

113. James Hurman on Building Future Demand: Creativity, Brand and Escaping the ‘Performance Trap’

Most marketers are under pressure to deliver results fast. But when all of the focus goes into capturing demand that already exists, businesses eventually limit their ability to grow. Sustainable growth comes from balancing the customers ready to buy today with those who will enter the market tomorrow. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with marketing effectiveness expert, entrepreneur and author James Hurman to unpack the ideas behind his new book, Future Demand. Together, they explore why so many businesses fall into the performance trap, what future demand actually means, why creativity remains one of marketing's most powerful growth levers, and how marketers can better communicate the value of long-term investment to CEOs, CFOs and boards. Visit: futuredemand.com Key Takeaways: Why businesses that focus only on short-term performance eventually hit a growth ceiling The ‘performance trap’ and how marketing teams unintentionally create it The role creativity plays in capturing the attention of future buyers Why marketers need to become better at communicating marketing's value internally Practical ways to build support for long-term marketing investment across leadership teams How companies can gradually shift from performance-only marketing to a more balanced growth strategy Guest: James Hurman is one of the world’s leading experts on marketing and advertising effectiveness. A former strategic planner, James has won more than 50 advertising effectiveness awards and was named the world’s number one strategic planning director in 2013. He is the co-founder of Tracksuit, Senior Advisor at Lions Advisory, Program Director of the Master of Advertising Effectiveness and author of Future Demand. You can follow James on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

June 16, 202649 min

112. State of the Pitch 2026 - How To Find The Right Agency Partner w. TrinityP3’s Darren Woolley

Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning. Read: The State of the Pitch Report Key Takeaways: The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch report Why agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly high The impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputation Why defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selection How AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scoping The ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch process When marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomes The role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrong How marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signed Best-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch process Guest: Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director. You can follow Darren on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

June 2, 202647 min

111. LinkedIn B2B Institute’s Ty Heath on Why the Best B2B Marketing Is Contrarian

Episode Description : Most marketers are keen to try the new shiny tactic, but what if the biggest B2B marketing opportunities come from understanding what doesn’t change? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host, James Lawrence, sits down with Ty Heath, Global Thought Leadership Lead at LinkedIn and co-founder of the LinkedIn B2B Institute, to explore the marketing principles that continue to drive growth in an increasingly complex world. Drawing on LinkedIn’s research and the B2B Institute’s latest work, Ty unpacks why brand remains one of the most powerful growth drivers in B2B and why many marketers are focusing on the wrong signals. Resources: LinkedIn B2B Institute Webinar: B2B Trends for the Contrarian Marketer Whitepaper: How B2B Brands Grow Key Takeaways: Why the best marketers focus on what doesn't change rather than chasing every new trend The contrarian marketer framework and how to find growth opportunities others overlook Why buyers often create a shortlist before entering the market, and what that means for brand building The 95/5 rule and why long-term brand investment remains critical for B2B growth The "sea of sameness" problem and how brands can build stronger distinctiveness The dangers of over-segmentation and the role of category entry points in reaching more buyers Hidden buyers: who really influences B2B purchasing decisions beyond the obvious stakeholders The sales and marketing alignment gap and what businesses can do to close it Guest: Tyrona Heath leads global thought leadership at LinkedIn Marketing and is the co-founder of LinkedIn’s B2B Institute. She is also a board member of the American Advertising Federation and a leading voice in B2B marketing effectiveness. Through LinkedIn’s research and partnerships with leading marketing thinkers and institutions, Ty helps marketers make clearer, evidence-based decisions about brand, memory, creativity and growth. You can follow TY on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

May 19, 202643 min

110. AI Search In Australia: Google, ChatGPT & The New Rules Of Visibility w. Rocket Agency's Joe Alder

Episode Description : Is Google losing ground? How much traffic are tools like ChatGPT really driving? And what does visibility look like when answers increasingly happen inside AI platforms instead of on your website? In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack what’s actually happening inside AI search in Australia right now. Drawing on Rocket’s latest GEO research across more than 150 Australian businesses and over one million data points, they explore how platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini and Perplexity are reshaping visibility, influence and digital measurement for brands, and what marketers should focus on next. Watch our webinar: AI Search in Australia 2026 - How to Rank in ChatGPT & Google AI Key Takeaways: Why Google search traffic is declining even while total search activity continues to grow How AI Overviews are impacting click-through rates for brands ranking in top Google positions What Rocket’s research revealed about the overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibility Why ChatGPT influences purchasing decisions far beyond the traffic it directly sends to websites The growing importance of brand perception inside large language models Why AI search optimisation requires a different approach to traditional SEO The technical website issues preventing many brands from appearing in AI search results What types of content are performing best inside large language models Why authority, citations and off-site brand signals matter more than ever in AI search The metrics marketers should actually be tracking to measure AI search performance Guest: Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini. You can follow Joe on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

May 6, 202628 min

109. Marketing Mix Modelling: What It Is, Why It Matters & Where AI Fits In w. Mutinex’s Henry Innis

Episode Description: As attribution becomes less reliable and marketing teams face more pressure to prove what drives growth, marketing mix modelling is becoming a popular way to understand the full commercial picture behind marketing performance. In this episode, James Lawrence speaks with Henry Innis, CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, about how modern MMM can help marketers move beyond channel-level reporting and last-click attribution. Henry explains why media alone rarely tells the full story, how variables like pricing, promotions, competitor activity, economic shifts and brand equity influence results Key Takeaways: Why Marketing Mix Modelling is becoming more important as attribution signals weaken How MMM helps marketers understand growth beyond media performance alone The role of external factors like weather, CPI, fuel costs and competitor spend in performance How modern MMM can support faster, more confident decision-making How AI is reducing the effort required to structure data, run models and generate insights Why brand activity can contribute to both short-term sales and long-term memory effects Why siloed measurement often leads to siloed execution How marketers can use MMM to think more like capital allocators than channel operators Guest: Henry Innis is the CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, a marketing measurement company helping brands improve growth decisions through modern Marketing Mix Modelling. Mutinex’s Growth OS platform brings together media, pricing, promotions, brand and external market factors to help organisations understand what is really driving business performance. Henry offers a practical perspective on marketing effectiveness, attribution, AI and how measurement is evolving for modern growth teams. You can follow Henry on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

April 21, 202638 min

108. How to Get the Most Out of Your Agency w. Neon Ambition’s Jordan Slover

Episode Description: What does a great agency relationship actually look like when pressure on marketing performance has never been higher? As budgets tighten and expectations rise, the difference between an average agency partnership and a high-performing one often comes down to how well both sides work together, not just what’s delivered. In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Jordan Slover, founder of one of the fastest-growing agencies in the US, Neon Ambition, to unpack what it really takes to get the best out of your agency partners. Drawing on years of experience on both the agency and client side, they explore the habits, behaviours and expectations that separate strong, results-driven relationships from the ones that quietly fall apart. Key Takeaways: Why agreeing on clear goals and KPIs upfront sets the foundation for better performance How feedback, both positive and constructive, shapes stronger agency output over time What separates a true partnership from a transactional client-agency relationship The role of trust, and why over-directing your agency can limit results How transparency from the client side leads to better decision-making and outcomes Why consistent communication (without micromanaging) keeps things moving forward The importance of staying involved, even when you’ve outsourced execution How small human factors (respect, empathy, rapport) impact performance more than you think Guest: Jordan Slover is the founder of Neon Ambition, a US-based digital agency specialising in paid media, SEO and content marketing. With a background at Google and experience working across international markets, Jordan brings a practical, grounded perspective on how agencies and clients can work better together to drive meaningful results. You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

April 7, 202629 min

107. What Australian Influencer Research Says About Creator Marketing in 2026 w. Impact Agency’s Trish McGee

Episode Description: How should Australian marketers adapt their approach to influencers and content creators as algorithmic changes, platform shifts and changing audience expectations reshape the landscape? Host James Lawrence sits down with Trish McGee, Group Account Director at Impact Agency, to unpack the findings of Impact's 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, Australian research that goes straight to the source, surveying local content creators from micro to mega. From platform preferences and AI concerns to what good measurement looks like, this is a valuable listen for any marketer working in or considering the influencer space. Key Takeaways: Why authenticity and long-term partnerships remain the foundation of effective influencer marketing How creators are using AI, and why they're cautious about brands that rely on it too heavily Which platforms creators prefer for paid collaborations versus organic content Why giving creators genuine creative control leads to better outcomes, and why it's harder than it sounds How measurement is evolving beyond reach, with saves, shares and quality comments becoming stronger indicators of success Why white-listing is still meeting resistance from creators Where Australia sits in the global influencer landscape, and why there's still significant room to grow Read: The 2026 Influencer Pulse Check Report Guest: Trish McGee is Group Account Director at Impact Agency, a full-service communications agency headquartered in Sydney. Trish leads client strategy and partnerships while overseeing Impact's Victorian presence. She was a key driver behind the 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, which surveys Australian content creators across all tiers on how they're navigating AI, changing algorithms, brand partnerships and the road ahead. You can follow Trish on LinkedIn . Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.