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Smarter Marketer

Smarter Marketer

Hosted by James Lawrence

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Episodes

120

Latest episode

Jun 2026

Language

EN

About the show

Hosted by James Lawrence - Co-Founder of Rocket Agency and B&T Marketer of the Year finalist, each episode features candid conversations with marketers, leaders and innovators on what’s really working in today’s fast-changing landscape. This is the definitive podcast for Australian Marketers.

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60 recent
June 16, 202649 min

112. State of the Pitch 2026 - How To Find The Right Agency Partner w. TrinityP3’s Darren Woolley

Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed.In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning. Read: The State of the Pitch ReportKey Takeaways:The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch reportWhy agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly highThe impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputationWhy defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selectionHow AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scopingThe ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch processWhen marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomesThe role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrongHow marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signedBest-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch processGuest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.You can follow Darren on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

June 2, 202647 min

EP 111. LinkedIn B2B Institute’s Ty Heath on Why the Best B2B Marketing Is Contrarian

Episode Description:Most marketers are keen to try the new shiny tactic, but what if the biggest B2B marketing opportunities come from understanding what doesn’t change?In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host, James Lawrence, sits down with Ty Heath, Global Thought Leadership Lead at LinkedIn and co-founder of the LinkedIn B2B Institute, to explore the marketing principles that continue to drive growth in an increasingly complex world. Drawing on LinkedIn’s research and the B2B Institute’s latest work, Ty unpacks why brand remains one of the most powerful growth drivers in B2B and why many marketers are focusing on the wrong signals.Resources:LinkedIn B2B InstituteWebinar: B2B Trends for the Contrarian MarketerWhitepaper: How B2B Brands GrowKey Takeaways:Why the best marketers focus on what doesn't change rather than chasing every new trendThe contrarian marketer framework and how to find growth opportunities others overlookWhy buyers often create a shortlist before entering the market, and what that means for brand buildingThe 95/5 rule and why long-term brand investment remains critical for B2B growthThe "sea of sameness" problem and how brands can build stronger distinctivenessThe dangers of over-segmentation and the role of category entry points in reaching more buyersHidden buyers: who really influences B2B purchasing decisions beyond the obvious stakeholdersThe sales and marketing alignment gap and what businesses can do to close itGuest: Tyrona Heath leads global thought leadership at LinkedIn Marketing and is the co-founder of LinkedIn’s B2B Institute. She is also a board member of the American Advertising Federation and a leading voice in B2B marketing effectiveness. Through LinkedIn’s research and partnerships with leading marketing thinkers and institutions, Ty helps marketers make clearer, evidence-based decisions about brand, memory, creativity and growth.You can follow TY on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

May 19, 202643 min

EP 110. AI Search In Australia: Google, ChatGPT & The New Rules Of Visibility w. Rocket Agency's Joe Alder

Episode Description:Is Google losing ground? How much traffic are tools like ChatGPT really driving? And what does visibility look like when answers increasingly happen inside AI platforms instead of on your website? In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack what’s actually happening inside AI search in Australia right now.Drawing on Rocket’s latest GEO research across more than 150 Australian businesses and over one million data points, they explore how platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini and Perplexity are reshaping visibility, influence and digital measurement for brands, and what marketers should focus on next.Watch our webinar: AI Search in Australia 2026 - How to Rank in ChatGPT & Google AIKey Takeaways:Why Google search traffic is declining even while total search activity continues to growHow AI Overviews are impacting click-through rates for brands ranking in top Google positionsWhat Rocket’s research revealed about the overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibilityWhy ChatGPT influences purchasing decisions far beyond the traffic it directly sends to websitesThe growing importance of brand perception inside large language modelsWhy AI search optimisation requires a different approach to traditional SEOThe technical website issues preventing many brands from appearing in AI search resultsWhat types of content are performing best inside large language modelsWhy authority, citations and off-site brand signals matter more than ever in AI searchThe metrics marketers should actually be tracking to measure AI search performanceGuest:Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini.You can follow Joe on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

May 6, 202628 min

109. Marketing Mix Modelling: What It Is, Why It Matters & Where AI Fits In w. Mutinex’s Henry Innis

Episode Description: As attribution becomes less reliable and marketing teams face more pressure to prove what drives growth, marketing mix modelling is becoming a popular way to understand the full commercial picture behind marketing performance.In this episode, James Lawrence speaks with Henry Innis, CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, about how modern MMM can help marketers move beyond channel-level reporting and last-click attribution. Henry explains why media alone rarely tells the full story, how variables like pricing, promotions, competitor activity, economic shifts and brand equity influence resultsKey Takeaways:Why Marketing Mix Modelling is becoming more important as attribution signals weakenHow MMM helps marketers understand growth beyond media performance aloneThe role of external factors like weather, CPI, fuel costs and competitor spend in performanceHow modern MMM can support faster, more confident decision-makingHow AI is reducing the effort required to structure data, run models and generate insightsWhy brand activity can contribute to both short-term sales and long-term memory effectsWhy siloed measurement often leads to siloed executionHow marketers can use MMM to think more like capital allocators than channel operatorsGuest:Henry Innis is the CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, a marketing measurement company helping brands improve growth decisions through modern Marketing Mix Modelling. Mutinex’s Growth OS platform brings together media, pricing, promotions, brand and external market factors to help organisations understand what is really driving business performance. Henry offers a practical perspective on marketing effectiveness, attribution, AI and how measurement is evolving for modern growth teams.You can follow Henry on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

April 21, 202638 min

108. How to Get the Most Out of Your Agency w. Neon Ambition’s Jordan Slover

Episode Description: What does a great agency relationship actually look like when pressure on marketing performance has never been higher? As budgets tighten and expectations rise, the difference between an average agency partnership and a high-performing one often comes down to how well both sides work together, not just what’s delivered.In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Jordan Slover, founder of one of the fastest-growing agencies in the US, Neon Ambition, to unpack what it really takes to get the best out of your agency partners. Drawing on years of experience on both the agency and client side, they explore the habits, behaviours and expectations that separate strong, results-driven relationships from the ones that quietly fall apart.Key Takeaways:Why agreeing on clear goals and KPIs upfront sets the foundation for better performanceHow feedback, both positive and constructive, shapes stronger agency output over timeWhat separates a true partnership from a transactional client-agency relationshipThe role of trust, and why over-directing your agency can limit resultsHow transparency from the client side leads to better decision-making and outcomesWhy consistent communication (without micromanaging) keeps things moving forwardThe importance of staying involved, even when you’ve outsourced executionHow small human factors (respect, empathy, rapport) impact performance more than you thinkGuest:Jordan Slover is the founder of Neon Ambition, a US-based digital agency specialising in paid media, SEO and content marketing. With a background at Google and experience working across international markets, Jordan brings a practical, grounded perspective on how agencies and clients can work better together to drive meaningful results.You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

April 7, 202629 min

107. What Australian Influencer Research Says About Creator Marketing in 2026 w. Impact Agency’s Trish McGee

Episode Description: How should Australian marketers adapt their approach to influencers and content creators as algorithmic changes, platform shifts and changing audience expectations reshape the landscape?Host James Lawrence sits down with Trish McGee, Group Account Director at Impact Agency, to unpack the findings of Impact's 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, Australian research that goes straight to the source, surveying local content creators from micro to mega. From platform preferences and AI concerns to what good measurement looks like, this is a valuable listen for any marketer working in or considering the influencer space.Key Takeaways:Why authenticity and long-term partnerships remain the foundation of effective influencer marketingHow creators are using AI, and why they're cautious about brands that rely on it too heavilyWhich platforms creators prefer for paid collaborations versus organic contentWhy giving creators genuine creative control leads to better outcomes, and why it's harder than it soundsHow measurement is evolving beyond reach, with saves, shares and quality comments becoming stronger indicators of successWhy white-listing is still meeting resistance from creatorsWhere Australia sits in the global influencer landscape, and why there's still significant room to growRead: The 2026 Influencer Pulse Check ReportGuest:Trish McGee is Group Account Director at Impact Agency, a full-service communications agency headquartered in Sydney. Trish leads client strategy and partnerships while overseeing Impact's Victorian presence. She was a key driver behind the 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, which surveys Australian content creators across all tiers on how they're navigating AI, changing algorithms, brand partnerships and the road ahead.You can follow Trish on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

March 24, 202652 min

106. Digital Marketing in Australia in 2026 - Your Questions Answered w. Rocket Agency's Top Experts

Episode Description: What would great marketing look like in Australia this year, especially when the rules are changing faster than most teams can keep up? In this episode, Rocket Agency’s top experts unpack the biggest shifts shaping digital marketing in 2026, from AI search and zero-click behaviour to rising costs, evolving content expectations and the growing importance of creative.Host James Lawrence discusses marketers’ most pressing questions with Mariano Di Lascio (Head of Digital), Joe Alder (Head of SEO), Leesa Mealing (Digital Creative Lead) and David Lawrence (MD). What follows is a practical, honest look at what’s working, what’s not and where marketers should be focusing next.Key Takeaways:Key trends shaping the Australian marketing landscape this yearIf zero-click search continues to grow, how should marketers measure SEO success differently?With AI-generated content flooding the internet, what does “good” content look like now?One AI use case that’s genuinely delivering ROI?With CPCs rising and competition intensifying, what are the first three levers you’d pull before increasing budget?If you’re leading marketing in 2026, what are you actually automating with AI, and what are you deliberately keeping human?LinkedIn for B2B: are most brands under-investing in creative, targeting, or measurement?Is the funnel broken or are marketers just running the same message at every stage?If you’re a lean team with limited budget, what’s the one channel and one capability you would prioritise this year?With Meta and Google controlling audience data, how much should brands invest in building owned channels right now?… and more pressing questions.Guests:Mariano Di Lascio leads a team of outstanding marketers at Rocket Agency across paid search and paid social channels. Together with the team, he has won some outstanding awards for client campaigns, including Best Integrated Campaign at APAC Search Awards, Best Integration of Search into Cross-Channel Marketing at Search Engine Land Awards and Best Integrated Campaign at Semrush Awards.Joe Alder is an award-winning SEO expert and has driven organic growth for global brands like Amazon, Coca-Cola, ANZ and Dulux through innovative strategies and data-driven insights. With over 20 industry award nominations, Joe is recognised as a leader in the field.Leesa Mealing is the Digital Creative Lead at Rocket, bringing over 15 years of experience across creative direction, art direction and design. She blends big-picture thinking with hands-on execution, shaping concepts while staying close to the work. Her background spans everything from branding and packaging to UI/UX, content and campaign production, and she’s just as comfortable leading a shoot as she is refining the details on screen.David Lawrence is the MD and Co-Founder of Rocket, an award-winning Australian full-service digital marketing agency. He is also the co-author of the Amazon #1 best-selling marketing book, Smarter Marketer. David has presented at several events, including Inbound Boston, Search Marketing Summit, Mumbrella360, CEO Institute, and various seminars and in-house sessions.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

March 10, 202641 min

105. Building a Standout Brand in a “Boring” Category w. Cleancorp’s Lisa Macqueen

How do you market an ‘unglamorous’ business where your category doesn’t sell itself? And what does it take to build a brand that people trust and remember when your offering is not something buyers get excited about?Host James Lawrence sits down with Lisa Macqueen, CEO of Cleancorp, to unpack how she’s built one of Australia’s most respected service brands in one of the most commoditised categories there is - commercial cleaning. From personal branding and LinkedIn content that genuinely resonates, to building trust at scale through culture and customer experience, this conversation is a masterclass in doing the fundamentals exceptionally well.Key Takeaways:How to build brand influence in a “boring” industry where buyers see the service as a grudge purchaseWhy founder-led LinkedIn content can become one of the most effective marketing channels in B2BWhat happens when you deliberately position your brand differently from the rest of your categoryWhy putting people at the centre of your marketing can strengthen both culture and client relationshipsThe role authenticity plays in building trust with prospects before a sales conversation even beginsHow modern buyers research suppliers before they ever contact a companyWhy curiosity and experimentation are becoming essential traits for marketers in a fast-changing landscapeGuest:Lisa Macqueen is the CEO of Cleancorp, a national commercial cleaning business servicing some of Australia’s most recognisable brands. With a background in sales and marketing across global hotel and resort businesses, Lisa brought a fundamentally different mindset into an industry long defined by commoditisation.Under her leadership, Cleancorp has grown into a people-first, values-led organisation, earning B Corp certification, national recognition as one of Australia’s best places to work and a reputation for doing things differently. Lisa is also a LinkedIn Top Voice, using her personal platform to share candid insights on building meaningful brands in unexpected places.You can follow Lisa on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

February 24, 202636 min

104. B2B Marketing in 2026: Changing Buyer Groups, AI Search, Digital-First Audiences and More w. Green Hat’s Stuart Jaffray

If most B2B buyers already know who they’re going to choose before they even speak to sales, what does that mean for your B2B marketing strategy?In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence sits down with Stuart Jaffray, Managing Director of Green Hat, to unpack the latest findings from the APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report. With data from over 800 buyers across the region, the message is clear: the rhythm of B2B buying has changed under the current economic and technological conditions.Read Green Hat’s report: The APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report 2025Key Takeaways:What happens before a buyer speaks to sales, and why that’s where most decisions are actually madeWhy “demand generation” might really just be demand captureThe changes in buying group size and timing, and what’s driving itHow AI is accelerating first contact, even as buyers try to self-serveWhat a Millennial and Gen Z-led buying committee expects from your contentWhy ungating content is uncomfortable but increasingly necessaryThe one metric revenue teams should prioritise over MQLsGuest:Stuart Jaffray is the Managing Director of Green Hat, a specialist B2B marketing agency operating across the APAC region. He’s spent his career working at the intersection of brand, demand and revenue, helping complex organisations align marketing and sales around how buying decisions actually get made. Previously he has steered strategy and growth at global advertising giant Starcom and shaped premium brand experiences at BMW Australia, bringing a deep understanding of customer behaviour, brand positioning and commercial impact.With this blend of big-brand marketing and agency-led demand acceleration, Stuart brings a commercial and strategic lens to B2B growth.You can follow Stuart on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

February 11, 202634 min

103. The End of SXSW, the Craft of Marketing to Marketers and What’s Changing in 2026 w. Clear Hayes' Alex Hayes

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with Alex Hayes, Founder of Clear Hayes, to unpack what it really means to market to marketers. From building Clear Hayes House at SXSW Sydney to launching award-winning branded content for global platforms, Alex shares hard-earned lessons from both sides of the fence; as a former editor of B&T and Mumbrella, and now as a global B2B communications specialist.Key Takeaways:Why “don’t be boring” is more than a tagline in B2BAre we overcomplicating marketing when simplification might be the real edge?How brand and performance work together, and why future demand mattersWhat marketers need to do to reposition themselves inside the C-suiteWhy upskilling in fundamentals is becoming a non-negotiableGuest:Alex Hayes is the Founder of Clear Hayes, a B2B communications agency specialising in marketing to marketers. Before launching the agency, Alex was Editor of both B&T and Mumbrella, where he covered some of the industry’s biggest stories and built a deep understanding of the people behind the platforms.Today, Clear Hayes works with clients across Australia, New Zealand, the UK, the US and Europe, helping brands connect with marketers in ways that are engaging and strategically sharp. Alex brings a rare perspective shaped by journalism, global industry exposure and years spent helping marketing brands cut through in a crowded, often self-referential category.You can follow Alex on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

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