Second Nature

Hosted by Dylan Bowman & Aaron Lutze

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161

Latest episode

Jun 2026

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EN-US

About the show

The business of outdoor hosted by Aaron Lutze & Dylan Bowman

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60 recent

June 12, 20261 hr 8 min

The Sunscreen Brand That's Rewriting Performance Science

Tom Austen is the founder of Pelotan, the world's first sun performance brand, and co-founder of Chance, a trail running apparel brand he's building with pro athlete and serial entrepreneur Christian Meier. Both brands are based in Girona, Spain — a two-square-kilometer pocket of world-class endurance athletes, cafes, and startups that's become the Boulder of Europe. In this conversation, Tom walks through how Pelotan went from a sunburn problem on training rides to winning two Tour de Frances with Team Sky in its first year, and how the brand is now pioneering something entirely new: treating the sun as a performance variable rather than just a health risk. He also gets into the Chance origin story, why cross-pollination across categories is the key to building something original, and what it's like to run two high-growth startups at the same time from a city of 100,000 people. Show Notes: Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Tom Austen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomausten1/ Pelotan: https://pelotan.cc/ Chance Running: https://chancerunning.com/ Second Nature - Sea Otter Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLk1LGIthPc Christian Meier: https://www.instagram.com/christianmmeier/ The Gartner Hype Cycle: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwerner/2024/07/18/the-trough-of-disillusionment-and-four-outliers-on-the-gartner-hype-cycle/ Pelotan Apres Aftersun: https://pelotan.cc/products/pelotan-apres-200ml Pelotan App for Second Nature listeners: https://pelotan.cc/secondnature Broken Arrow Skyrace: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/ Lael Wilcox: https://www.instagram.com/laelwilcox/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Nomio: https://drinknomio.com/ Adidas World Cup ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJY53qhJe0 Nike - Airport soccer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGalnbiGDW4 Insta360 GO Ultra: https://store.insta360.com/product/go-ultra Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

June 5, 20261 hr 5 min

Behind The Brand: Athletic Brewing

Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into 20% of all beer at Whole Foods. In this conversation, Bill walks through the full journey: the two years of research before he quit his job, the valley of darkness where no brewery, distributor, or investor would take his calls, finding his co-founder John Walker through a brewing forum post (with the words "non-alcoholic" deliberately removed), and the grassroots field marketing strategy that built the brand one race, one taproom, and one six-pack at a time. He also gets into the competitive explosion that followed, why he views 200 brands entering his category as a positive, and what it's like to redefine success once the business reaches cruising altitude. If you've ever looked at a category and thought "why hasn't anyone fixed this yet", this is the episode that shows you what happens when someone actually does. Show Notes: Popfly For Brands Popfly For Creators Bill Shufelt on LinkedIn Athletic Brewing John Walker on LinkedIn 1000 True Fans (Article) Do Things That Don't Scale (Article) Two For The Trails What It Takes (Book) The Obstacle Is The Way (Book) BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Dirt - Ireland Gramicci Hopa Hopa Climbing Wall Kawa Raide Research - LF 5L Vest The Modern Substitute Kids Ride Shotgun Connect With Us: Join us on LinkedIn Meet us on Slack Follow us on Instagram Subscribe to our Newsletter Subscribe to our YouTube Channel

May 29, 20261 hr 4 min

What Happens When You Actually Ask For Help

Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old. In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full founder journey — from stitching prototypes in his attic with fabric from old running shoes, to convincing one of Osprey's largest factories to take a chance on him, to the moment Tim Tollefson told him he wasn't allowed to NOT do this. He also talks openly about his first failed brand, why he set three rules for himself this time around ("I know nothing, everyone else knows everything, and they all want to help"), and how seven members of the Second Nature Slack channel played a direct role in getting Dera off the ground. This is a brand launch captured in real time — and a reminder that sometimes the best businesses start with a sewing machine in an attic and the willingness to ask for help. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Morgan Tuohy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-tuohy/ Dera: https://rundera.com/ Tim Tollefson: https://www.instagram.com/timtollefson/ Our IP Attorney, Ian Gates: https://krdglaw.com/staff/ian-gates/ Kitworks: http://www.kitworks.com Second Nature Slack Channel: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Cade Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cade-michael-mba-914411152/ Clara Froeschner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarafroeschner/ Tim Nooney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-nooney-0a3bbaa6/ Courier Socks: https://couriersocks.com/ Claude: https://www.claude.ai Mammoth Trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Goodles: https://www.goodles.com/ Dexa Scan: https://dexascan.com/ Kiprun - Kipsummit Max: https://www.kiprun.com/en-US/product/kipsummit-max-men-s-max-cushion-trail-running-shoes_362206--c153c385m9001281 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

May 22, 20261 hr 6 min

You Can Just Build Things Now

Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deeper than any survey can — and he built the whole thing in about a month. In this conversation, Steve walks through exactly how he did it, what he wishes he'd known before starting, and why AI is "a tool masquerading as a solution." He also deployed Field Check live on the Second Nature Slack channel to surface what the audience actually wants — and the results are fascinating. Plus: a halftime check-in on Second Nature's 2026 predictions, what happened at Sea Otter with Chinese bike brands, why Adidas is having a moment, and the 32-inch wheel debate that nobody asked for. Show Notes: Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/ Insight Accelerator: https://insight-accelerator.com/ Lovable: https://lovable.dev/ Field Check: https://fieldcheck.app/ Supabase: https://supabase.com/ Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/ Github: https://www.github.com 2026 Predictions Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0G3OpDVnyA Steve's Prediction Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/stephenholmberg_2026-sport-and-outdoor-industry-trends-activity-7414293417557626880-AXy7 Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com BPC - Brand, Product, Content Jason Fried - David Senra Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw Adventure Bucket List: https://reachinternationaloutfitters.com/collections/state-bucket-lists Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

May 15, 20261 hr 8 min

What 5.5 Million Followers Taught Her About Brand Social

Maren Hamilton ran global social at The North Face — building and executing a strategy for 5.5 million followers, integrating athletes and creators, and navigating every platform shift from the follow graph to the discovery graph. Then she left to help build Popfly, the creator platform built specifically for the outdoor industry. In this conversation, Maren shares the playbook she developed at TNF for running brand social at scale, including how to say no to the hundreds of internal requests that flood every social team, why the outdoor buying journey is fundamentally different from fashion and beauty, and what brands still get wrong about TikTok, Threads, and Facebook. Plus: Why Head of Social to CMO is now a real career path, what makes a creator pitch actually land with a brand, and the Adidas sub-two-hour marathon moment that might be the greatest brand activation of the decade. Second Nature is supported by Popfly. If you want to support our podcast - and discover a platform that we believe is one of the best tools for connecting brands and creators, follow these links: Popfly for Creators/Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Show Notes: Maren Hamilton: https://www.marenhamilton.com/ Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands TNF Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thenorthface DBo on X: https://x.com/dylanbo TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com Gnara on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gnara_apparel?lang=en Taylor Hoekstra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorhoekstra/ Popfly Storefront: https://app.popfly.com/@superridertv/storefront Alpaka: https://www.alpaka.com Camp Chef: https://www.campchef.com Backcountry: https://www.backcountry.com BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Halfdays x HOKA: https://www.halfdays.com/pages/hoka-x-halfdays Keen x 18 East: https://www.keenfootwear.com/collections/keen-x-eighteen-east Gnarly Nutrition x DBo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtESorSIso Supercommunicators (Book): https://amzn.to/3RcJ7W6 Supercommunicators (Podcast Episode): https://open.spotify.com/episode/3jqbbLEHbZyEJ2kMqNskkz Adidas Pro Evo 3: https://www.adidas.com/us/adizero-adios-pro-evo-3-shoes/KH7678.html Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

May 8, 20261 hr 5 min

What Outdoor Brands Get Wrong About Storytelling

Matt Trappe is a photographer, filmmaker, creative strategist, and the voice behind the Matter of Brand newsletter: one of the most consistently sharp reads on brand building in the outdoor space. In this conversation, Matt and Aaron dig into why leading with innovation and tech has become table stakes rather than a differentiator, the three elements that make a brand story actually stick, and why the most powerful thing a brand can do right now is invest in longer attention channels rather than chasing short-form reach. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Matt Trappe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-trappe/ Auteur Sportif: https://auteursportif.com/ Matter Of Brand: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/ Matt Trappe on Second Nature (2024): https://youtu.be/Y-5n57sX5S4 MOB - YouTube Strategies: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/p/new-youtube-strategies-for-athletes NASA Artemis Recap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfRqrrBbT-Y Hyperlyte - The Kid (Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZmeB4qub_U Kaironic: https://auteursportif.com/products/kaironic-issue-002 Smith Optics: https://smithoptics.pxf.io/PzKObY WSJ - Alternatively Influential: https://www.wsj.com/cmo-today/forget-influencers-welcome-to-the-world-of-the-alternatively-influential-e058e639 Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Skratch: https://www.skratch.com Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Skratch x Auteur Sportif: https://www.skratchlabs.com/pages/what-remains Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content Are.na: https://www.are.na/ Smith ODS5: https://smithoptics.pxf.io/vDyPVe Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

May 1, 20261 hr 25 min

Why Your Brand's YouTube Channel Is Failing (And How to Fix It)

Most outdoor brands have a YouTube problem. They're just not talking about it. Jeff Pelletier is a filmmaker, trail running creator, and one of the most thoughtful students of YouTube strategy and in the outdoor space. In this episode he breaks down why most brand channels are underperforming and what to actually do about it. We cover the difference between consistency and familiarity, why athlete-led channels outperform brand channels, the Marvel cinematic universe framework for building an audience around characters, and how YouTube's new collaboration feature changes the game for brand-creator partnerships. If you work at a brand, or if you're a creator who wants to bring more value to the brands that back you, this episode is required listening. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Jeff Pelletier on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JeffPelletier Why Most Brands Fail On YouTube: https://open.substack.com/pub/jeffpelletier/p/why-most-brands-fail-on-youtube Super Rider Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuperRiderTV Darren Rayner / Magnafire: https://www.magnafiremedia.com/ Floris Gierman on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/mjMJ7lcEIGg Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/ Outdoor Media Summit - Brand Preso: https://youtu.be/b0w462ncEEY?si=ORi2F8yGv4Rdtcos&t=774 Coros on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@COROSGlobal Park Tool's Sign-Off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60mjoZ0XeVA Rickey Gates: https://www.rickeygates.com/ Huckberry - Dirt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXbHTtsCd_E&list=PLjHRKTS-Q5-CeCo66kFGivBMF8qB8orPh Huckberry Homes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjHRKTS-Q5-DBIKtFTzXdHr355duxbl7J Cody Townsend - The Fifty Project: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSj-6RsDycxnKiIFFm0BFYoLLV5Np3K49 BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Hover Air ProMax: https://geni.us/OEkhLgI Jeff's Hover Air video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0evC16wzaDE DJI Osmo Pocket 3: https://amzn.to/41XGNEo Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

April 24, 20261 hr 11 min

Why PR Is Now More Powerful Than Paid Search

Michael Rueckert was a ski resort marketing director who got curious about a simple question: when someone asks an AI where to ski, does Snow Basin show up? That curiosity led him down a rabbit hole that eventually became Centium AI, a platform now working with over 170 outdoor brands to help them understand and improve their visibility across every major AI model. In this conversation, Michael and Aaron dig into how ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and Perplexity each "think" differently about outdoor brands, why landing a GearLab ranking may now be worth more than any paid search campaign, and what it means for marketing when AI starts making purchasing decisions on behalf of humans. They also go deep on the practical side — how to set up Claude projects as a creative co-pilot, why taste is still the irreducible human advantage in an AI world, and why the outdoor industry is actually better positioned than most for what's coming. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Michael Rueckert: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-rueckert/ Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/ Christian Rawles on SN: https://youtu.be/EVPKsO0O8us GearLab: https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/ OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai/ Rick Rubin on "Taste": https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNyma-0WMZL/ Claude: https://www.claude.ai BPC - Brand, Product, Content Scott Sports: https://www.scott-sports.com/ Gnarly Nutrition: https://gognarly.com/ DBo's Gnarly Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtESorSIso Go-Giver (Book): https://amzn.to/4mzP632 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

April 19, 20261 hr 39 min

Athletes, Managers, Founders — Sea Otter Unfiltered

We hosted a Second Nature meetup with everyone at the Sea Otter Classic, and pulled a handful of friends up to the microphone to have conversations about everything happening in the industry and in their world at large. Jeremy Dunn, Braydon Bringhurst, Eric Porter, Tom Austen, Rachel Fussell, Steve Blick and Yuri Hauswald joined Aaron on the stage to chat through the lessons they've learned and the things that they're working hard to accomplish in 2026. A big thank you to Smith Optics for hosting the space for our community to meet up, and for all the brands who contributed to our "Sea Otter Survival Kit". Show Notes: Popfly For Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly For Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Jeremy Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyddunn/ Smith Optics: https://www.smithoptics.com Braydon Bringhurst: https://www.instagram.com/braydonbringhurst/ HardMTB League: https://www.hardmtbleague.com/ Eric Porter: https://www.instagram.com/portermtb PorterMTB on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/portermtb Tom Austen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomausten1/ Pelotan: https://usa.pelotan.cc/ Rachel Fussell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-m-fussell/ People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/ People For Bikes - Backyard Initiative: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/backyard-advocacy-toolkit Steve Blick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-blick/ Yuri Hauswald: https://www.instagram.com/yhauswald/ Yuri's Charity Ride: https://app.99pledges.com/fund/yurichasetherace/yuri-hauswald Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

April 15, 20261 hr 7 min

Bikes Are Bigger Than the Bike Industry Thinks

What if bikes could transform cities, create economies, and solve problems nobody thought they were for? We're joined today by Peter Abraham, one of the most connected strategic minds in the bike industry, just ahead of Sea Otter Classic. We cover a lot of ground: the state of the bike industry after a brutal few years, why e-bikes are reaching people the legacy brands never could, what London and Paris figured out about infrastructure that LA hasn't, and why Bentonville might be the most important proof of concept in outdoor sports right now. Plus: the $21 million Scotland Mountain Bike Innovation Center, the LA Olympics bike infrastructure push, and why the brands at Sea Otter with just a tent and a couple of bikes on stands are leaving a lot on the table. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Peter Abraham: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterabraham2/ Sea Otter Classic: https://www.seaotterclassic.com/ Bicycle Leadership Conference: https://www.bicycleleadershipconference.org/ People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/ Modern Elder Academy: https://www.meawisdom.com/ The Algorithm (Book): https://amzn.to/41ROQTg Rivian's e-Bike: https://ridealso.com/ Amsterdam, The Bike City: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKbRL6Opifg Abundance (Book): https://amzn.to/4caqpFt Why Can't We Build Bike Lanes?: https://peterabraham.medium.com/why-cant-we-build-bike-lanes-1115b713a5cf Festival Trail: https://www.festivaltrail.org Runway Group: https://runwaynwa.com/ Scotland's MTB Innovation Center: https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/thanks-to-a-21-million-investment-the-worlds-first-mtb-innovation-centre-is-breaking-ground-this-spring-in-scotland/ Atherton Bikes: https://www.athertonbikes.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Bicycle Diaries (Book): https://amzn.to/4e48iDA Barbarian Days (Book): https://amzn.to/4csxC4W Levrack: https://www.levrack.com Kitworks: https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia