Second Nature

Hosted by Dylan Bowman & Aaron Lutze

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179

Latest episode

Oct 2026

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EN-US

About the show

The business of outdoor hosted by Aaron Lutze & Dylan Bowman

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October 16, 20261 hr 4 min

The Most Overlooked Health Category Nobody Built - Until Now.

Allie Melnick, co-founder of Climatic, joins Second Nature to talk about building an entirely new health category: proactive lung health. A ten-year veteran of Harry's (now Mammoth Brands), Melnick explains why breathing, not legs, not sleep, not gut health, might be the next frontier in everyday performance, and what it actually takes to convince people a problem exists before you can sell them the solution. She and Aaron dig into Climatic's L-MAX inhaler, the sheep-lung testing and Mount Sinai clinical research behind it, and the surprising communities who found the product before the company expected them to. The conversation also covers the discipline it took to stay patient through a sold-out, scarcity-driven launch, and closes with an unplanned detour into the hidden world of startup advising: how operators with full-time jobs can build equity and expertise on the side, and why a sharp, one-sentence pitch beats being a Swiss Army knife. Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Allie Melnick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allie-melnick-4269034/ Climatic: https://www.climatichealth.com/ Harry's: https://www.harrys.com/ Seed: https://seed.com/ Mount Sinai Study: https://insider.fitt.co/press-release/mount-sinai-medical-center-researcher-co-authors-peer-reviewed-study-on-inhaled-formulations-designed-to-strengthen-the-lungs-natural-defenses/ Performance Advisory Board: https://insider.fitt.co/press-release/climatic-launches-performance-advisory-board-to-advance-daily-lung-health-as-the-next-frontier-in-wellness/ Mentorpass: https://www.mentorpass.co/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Loonen Water: https://loonen.com/ Defense Soap: https://amzn.to/47qT1Z4 Find Us: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

October 9, 20261 hr 3 min

Building A New Category: The Signal Was The Strategy

John Schade first discovered Dry Brew:a patented, waterless, ready-to-eat cup of coffee, while searching for something better than a mediocre coffee gummy he'd seen on Shark Tank. He reached out to the original founders immediately. It took over five years, and a random cold email in 2024, before he finally got the chance to help build it. In this conversation, recorded after meeting at Outdoor Retailer through Popfly's Wild Reach program, John walks through Dry Brew's go-to-market journey, starting in aviation with pilots who instantly understood the product, then following that same signal into trade shows, outdoor specialty retail, and eventually Target. He also gets into the patent that protects the entire category, why packaging has to do all the talking on a retail shelf, and the wild, unexpected use cases customers keep finding - including a police officer who uses it for 2am hostage negotiation call-outs. BONUS: The team at Dry Brew has shared a 20% discount link for Second Nature listeners. You can use this link (or type in SecondNature20 at checkout) for your order: https://drybrew.com/discount/ SecondNature20 Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Dry Brew: https://drybrew.com/ John Schade: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnschade/ Dry Brew on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drybrew Dry Brew on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drybrew Final Boss Sour: https://finalbosssour.com/ Neurogum: https://neurogum.com/ Nathan's Gum: https://nathanandsons.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Veloci: https://velocirunning.com/ Bookshop.org (Second Nature Books!): https://bookshop.org/shop/secondnature Find Us: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

October 2, 20261 hr 11 min

How A Brand From The Bottom Of The World Went Global

Hamish and Hannah Acland, co-founders of Mons Royale, join Second Nature to tell the story of building a global merino wool brand from Wanaka, New Zealand. The brand started with an email titled "Anatomy of an Idea" that brought the two of them together. They talk through the founding insight that base layers were the one piece of ski gear nobody had bothered to make exciting, and how they set out to build a global brand from day one rather than a New Zealand one, despite a disastrous first trade show and years of razor-thin margins as distributors took their cut. Hamish and Hannah are candid about the harder second chapter of the business: losing their creative conviction under pressure from wholesalers, the challenge of scaling a founder-led vision into a real team, and the ongoing tension between growth and funding. They also get into how "action sports can better people and planet" became the brand's operating mission over the language of sustainability, why Mons Royale built an athlete program when visibility wasn't even possible for a base-layer brand, and what it's taught them about resilience, team-building, and staying global-minded from a town of a few thousand people at the bottom of the world. Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Mons Royale: https://monsroyale.com/ Hamish Acland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamishacland/ Hannah Acland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-acland/ ISPO: https://www.ispo.com/ Mattie Sims on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/tJl441qcZLk Robin Goomes: https://www.youtube.com/@robin_riding_hood Future Ground Event: https://monsroyale.com/blogs/news/future-ground-full-video BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Keen Shoes: https://www.keenfootwear.com/ Belonging (Book): https://bookshop.org/a/128566/9781529410310 Insta360 X6: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=SUPERRIDER Find Us: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

September 25, 20261 hr 1 min

Wisdom From A Decade Of Affiliate Marketing

Angie Burnett has spent over a decade in affiliate marketing — starting with coupon sites at 1-800 Contacts, moving through fashion e-commerce, and now leading influencer and affiliate partnerships at Backcountry, a 30-year-old brand she's helped modernize for the creator economy. Recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, this conversation goes deep on what most people get wrong about affiliate marketing and what the best creators and brands are doing differently right now. Angie breaks down why "owning your audience" matters more than ever and how she evaluates creators beyond follower counts (including a surprising use of Reddit and Meta's Creator tools). She also walks through what it actually takes to build an affiliate program from scratch, why newsletters are a much harder affiliate channel than people assume, and how YouTube's new shopping integration is changing the game for creators. Second Nature Is Supported By: Popfly (For Brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly (For Creators/Athletes): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Angie Burnett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angieburnett/ Backcountry: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/enE9bO Popfly: https://www.popfly.com Wasatch Adventure Dress: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/ZVzG0W Avantlink: https://www.avantlink.com Impact: https://www.impact.com Clique Agency: https://cliqueaffiliate.com/ MarTec Record (Slack): https://martechrecord.com/industry-surveys-reports-and-data/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Koala Eco Veggie Wash: https://www.koalaeco.com/ DryBrew: https://drybrew.com/ Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

September 18, 202659 min

Building in Public: A Basecamp From the Ground Up

YJ Tung is building Foresthill Basecamp — a performance lodge with ten modular cabins at mile 62 of the Western States Trail, featuring saunas, cold plunges, and everything an endurance athlete could want after a long day on the trail. The idea started after a three-hour delirious drive home from his first ultra, and it's now becoming real through a combination of validation, relationship-building, and no small amount of serendipity. In this conversation, YJ walks through how he and his business partner validated the concept with just $15-20 a day in Meta ads before building anything, how a chance connection in the Second Nature Slack turned into real partnership support, and what it's been like to work his first-ever trade show booth at TrailCon. He also gets candid about losing his father, managing the imposter syndrome that comes with pursuing something this ambitious, and why he's convinced he's exactly the right person to bring this particular idea to life. Second Nature is proudly supported by: Halo: https://poweredbyhalo.com/ Popfly (for brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly (for creators): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Show Notes: YJ Tung: https://www.linkedin.com/in/youngjohntung/ Miwok 100k: https://miwok100k.com/ Isaac French: https://www.isaacjfrench.com/ Unreasonable Hospitality (Book): https://amzn.to/3UZex4c Sally McRae - Western States Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHoXgYPvj6o East Peak: https://www.runeastpeak.com/ SF Run Co: https://store.sfrunco.com/ TrailCon: https://trailconference.com/ Foresthill Basecamp on IndieGogo: https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/foresthill_basecamp/fhbc Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy: https://amzn.to/4y3e27R Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Autocamp: https://autocamp.com/ Ramble podcast episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahFqLCAyEvY Snowpeak: https://www.snowpeak.com/ mammoth trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Trail Work (Book): https://amzn.to/4d1VJrp Without A Doubt - Braydon Bringhurst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIWGC_qnBO4 Find Us: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

September 11, 20261 hr 9 min

The Business Behind the Best Activation at UTMB (And Beyond)

Hilary Fenet just pulled off one of the most talked-about brand activations at UTMB — a full hotel takeover in Chamonix for Rabbit, complete with a clubhouse for the week, community breakfasts, and an espresso cart in the parking lot. But the company behind it, Halo, started with a much smaller and much less glamorous moment: Hilary booking a hotel on the wrong side of a mountain before a race in the Italian Dolomites. In this conversation, Hilary walks through how a bad hotel booking turned into a genuine business insight — brands were building incredible experiences for their sponsored athletes, but ignoring the people actually buying their gear. She breaks down how Halo builds these activations from the ground up, the data that makes the case for in-person experience over pure digital marketing, and what it actually takes to scale something this bespoke to multiple events happening around the world at once. Second Nature is proudly supported by Halo and Popfly: Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Show Notes: Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Hilary Fenet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-fenet-b2b2358/ Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/ Monica DeVreese: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monid/ Dolomite Skyrace: https://www.dolomitemountains.com/en/resources/dolomites-tips/sky-race-in-the-dolomites Aravaipa: https://www.aravaiparunning.com/ Citadel Investment Group: https://www.citadel.com/ SAFE Note: https://carta.com/learn/startups/fundraising/convertible-securities/safes/ Athletic Brewing on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZyMp1XsPs BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/ Theo of Golden (Book): https://amzn.to/4xliEF3 Climatic: https://www.climatichealth.com/ War of Art (Book): https://amzn.to/4h2vkuE Shoe Dog (Book): https://amzn.to/4A5RSmL Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

September 4, 20261 hr 9 min

What Farmers Taught Him About Building A Company

Taylor Hoekstra spent years selling products through an unlikely channel — farmer YouTubers — years before anyone called it the "creator economy." That experience taught him something most people in the outdoor industry hadn't figured out yet, and it planted the seed for Popfly. Before writing a line of code, Taylor spent two years and roughly 500 conversations validating the idea, testing a simple question: would people actually pay for this? In this conversation, recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, Taylor walks through the classic cold-start problem every founder building a two-sided marketplace has to solve — get supply first, use supply to pull in demand, then reinvest in supply relentlessly. He also gets honest about the early years trying to convince outdoor brands that working with creators was worth their marketing budget, long before it was an easy sell. Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Taylor Hoekstra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorhoekstra/ Popfly: https://www.popfly.com Camp Chef: https://www.campchef.com/ Cold Start Problem: https://amzn.to/4qTtHEb BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Outdoor Retailer: https://outdoorretailer.com/ Amazfit T-Rex 3 Pro: https://us.amazfit.com/ Shackelton's Voyage: https://amzn.to/4qRwmOB 57 Hours: https://57hours.com/ Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

September 2, 202659 min

Navigating Transitions With Rebecca Rusch

Today, we're sharing something a little different. My longtime friend Rebecca Rusch invited me onto her podcast, What's The Rusch, to talk about navigating transitions: the ones we choose, and the ones that choose us. Rebecca and I have known each other for over 20 years, since my days as her athlete manager at Red Bull, and this conversation covers a lot of ground: my own path from Red Bull into building Super Rider and Second Nature, the behind-the-scenes story of helping athletes see the light, and some honest reflections on loss, reinvention, and figuring out what comes next. This isn't a regular Second Nature episode, but it felt too good not to share. Enjoy the conversation, and if you like what you hear, go check out the rest of What's The Rusch right here: https://www.rebeccarusch.com/whatstherusch

August 28, 20261 hr 14 min

How To Build a Business, Not Just a Following

Second Nature Listener Survey: https://surveymars.com/q/inCNkLas9 Alyssa Olenick, known online as Doc Lyss, has spent the last eight years building a seven-figure fitness and training business while simultaneously earning a PhD in exercise physiology. She started with $35-a-month one-on-one coaching over Google Sheets and a MacBook that literally overheated. Today she runs a training app, a coaching team, and a quarter-million-follower community built on a simple philosophy: talk to your customers, act fast, and never stop iterating. In this conversation, Alyssa breaks down what it actually took to build a business that didn't feel real until nearly a decade in, why she turned down far more brand deals than she accepted, and what "world-building" really means in modern marketing: the idea that people buy into an identity, not just a product. She also gets candid about the hardest season of her business, the difference between growing a business and running a company, and why she deliberately paused an entire second brand for years because she knew she couldn't do both well at once. This episode is supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Alyssa Olenick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssaolenick/ DocLyssFitness: https://www.instagram.com/doclyssfitness/ The Lyss Method: https://quiz-thelyssmethod.com/ DocLyss Newsletter: https://substack.com/@doclyssfitness DocLyss YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@doclyssfitness Alex Hormozi: https://www.instagram.com/hormozi/?hl=en Shelby Sapp: https://shelbysapp.com/ Codie Sanchez: https://codiesanchez.com/ Yeti: https://www.backcountry.com/brand/yeti ShopMy - Alyssa's Storefront: https://shopmy.us/shop/doclyssfitness NoBull: https://nobullproject.com/ Ozlo Sleepbuds: https://ozlosleep.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: SENIQ: https://seniqbrand.com/ Halfdays: https://www.halfdays.com/ Suunto Race 2: https://www.backcountry.com/suunto-race-2-sport-watch Courtney - Post Hardrock Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQYa_fTw01w HoverAir X1 ProMax: https://us.hoverair.com/products/hoverair-x1-self-flying-camera-combo Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

August 21, 20261 hr 3 min

The Bentonville Blueprint, From the People Who Built It

Second Nature Listener Survey: https://surveymars.com/q/inCNkLas9 Gary Vernon, Scott King, and Aimee Ross have been building what is now one of the most significant mountain bike destinations in the world. What started in 2006 as a five-mile trail system in Bentonville, Arkansas has grown into 600 miles of trail across the region, 1,200 miles statewide, and most recently, a lift-access bike park with its own chairlift, restaurant, and membership model. In this conversation, they walk through the design principles that made it work: building for beginners first, focusing on progression, and the decision to build within city limits rather than isolating trails on private land. They also break down the economics of trail building compared to traditional recreational infrastructure, what it actually took to build a 38-trail bike park in under two years, and the advice they give every community that calls asking "how do we become the next Bentonville"...which is, simply, don't try. Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Scott King: https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-scott-king-9991a4/ Aimee Ross: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aimeeross/ Gary Vernon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-vernon-ii-58253a7/ Tom Walton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-walton-40b9792ba/ OZ Bike Park: https://oztrailsbikepark.com/ OZ Trails: https://www.oztrails.com/ Discovery Loop: https://www.visitbentonville.com/blog/stories/post/ride-the-loop-bentonvilles-scenic-bike-route/ IMBA: https://www.imba.com/ Transform Your Community (Gary's TED Talk): https://youtu.be/yXJkWIeNP6g?si=p8frsQWhW7CzqJnB IMBA TrailLab: https://www.imba.com/trail-labs Gravity Logic: https://www.whistlergravitylogic.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Cone valve suspension: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/cone-valve-suspension/ Sierra Nevada NA: https://sierranevada.com/brews/trail-pass-ipa Triumph Daytona: https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/sport/daytona-660 The Design Way (Book): https://amzn.to/4zjfoMS Marin Alpine Trail EXR (Aaron's Bike): https://marinbikes.com/collections/alpine-trail-e Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia