Revenue Builders

Hosted by Force Management

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351

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Jun 2026

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About the show

Welcome to the Revenue Builders podcast, a weekly show featuring B2B sales leaders and executives. Hosted by Five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management’s Co-Founder John Kaplan, the show goes in the barrel, behind the scenes with the people who have been there, done that and seen the results. Revenue Builders covers the best practices for scaling and growing your business, while sharing the pitfalls to avoid. Great conversation. Solid interviews. Tangible takeaways to help you succeed. If you enjoy our content, please subscribe, rate and review the show to help us reach more people. This show is brought to you by: Force Management where we help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale. Check out forcemanagement.com more information.

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60 recent

June 14, 202611 min

High LTV Isn’t Enough: The ICP Tradeoff Leaders Miss with Dan Sperring

In this today’s segment, Dan Sperring, founder and CEO of Align ICP, breaks down a mistake most revenue leaders make when defining their ideal customer profile. The instinct is to chase the highest lifetime value customers, but those segments are often the hardest to win, the slowest to close, and the first to break when the market shifts. This clip focuses on how to balance three critical factors inside your ICP: lifetime value, ease of acquisition, and market health. Dan explains why ignoring any one of these creates pipeline risk, and how leaders can avoid over-rotating into segments that look great on paper but fail in execution. For leaders responsible for predictable growth, this is about making smarter tradeoffs, not just better targeting. Dan Sperring is the founder and CEO of AlignICP, a company focused on helping revenue teams align around high-value customer segments to drive predictable growth. He brings experience across customer success, revenue leadership, and scaling SaaS businesses through product-market and go-to-market alignment. Connect with Dan: AlignICP LinkedIn Books mentioned: The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen The Innovator's Solution by Clayton M. Christensen and Michael E. Raynor Predictable Revenue by Aaron Ross and Marylou Tyler Amp It Up by Frank Slootman Tools and podcasts mentioned: clay.com zoominfo.com The Science of Scaling Podcast Listen to the full episode: Aligning Pipeline to Ideal Customer Profile with Dan Sperring Get the Force Management framework for aligning your ICP, sales motion, and customer lifecycle around high-value use cases and measurable business outcomes: The Predictable Revenue Framework: Guide for Leaders Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

June 11, 20261 hr 2 min

The Real Sale Starts After Signature | Proving Value in AI and Consumption Models with Seong Park

Consumption pricing and AI adoption are forcing revenue teams to prove value faster, with less room to hide behind contracts, pilots, or broad technical promises. Seong Park, Senior Vice President of Customer Support and Services at Cursor, joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to examine how customer success has become a consultative, technical, and commercial function in modern go-to-market. The conversation explores why post-sale execution is now central to retention, how teams need to embed into customer workflows, what finance scrutiny means for consumption models, and why the fundamentals of pain, champions, outcomes, and evidence still matter in a market moving at unusual speed. Seong Park is the Senior Vice President of Customer Support and Services at Cursor. His background spans pre-sales, customer success, and go-to-market leadership across companies including MongoDB, ThoughtSpot, and now Cursor. Connect with Seong: LinkedIn Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 – Seong Park’s perspective on how pre-sales, open source SaaS, and customer success shaped his view of enterprise go-to-market. 02:26 – Why consumption models force revenue teams to re-earn the customer’s business through usage and realized value. 08:00 – The value realization test every revenue leader should care about: what happens if the solution gets unplugged. 11:04 – Why workflow depth quietly becomes a moat in enterprise accounts. 18:04 – Why the real selling often starts after the customer signs. 23:50 – A look inside where Cursor is finding technical go-to-market talent, and what it takes to build that talent into customer-facing operators. 34:38 – Why finance scrutiny quietly changes the standard of proof for AI investments. 52:00 – The three things post-sale teams need to understand before value delivery can begin. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

June 7, 202616 min

Humility & The Art of Letting Go with Doug Holladay

Doug Holladay shares a powerful personal story of forgiving someone he resented for 35 years after an unexpected encounter at a college reunion, emphasizing that forgiveness is fundamentally about personal work rather than the actions of others. He discusses the distinction between forgiveness and reconciliation, stressing the importance of releasing expectations for perfect apologies and instead focusing on recognizing sincere intent in others' gestures. The episode concludes with practical guidance on how to achieve forgiveness through self-inventory, humility, and learning from challenging moments rather than dwelling on negative feelings. Doug Holladay is an author, educator, and leadership advisor known for helping leaders examine the internal patterns that shape culture, decision-making, and long-term success. He is the author of Rethinking Success and a frequent contributor to conversations on leadership, humility, and organizational health. Resources mentioned: Rethinking Success by Doug Holladay The Wounded Healer by Henri Nouwen What Happened to You? by Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey Listen to the full episode: Forgiveness as a Leadership Advantage with Doug Holladay, Author of Rethinking Success Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

June 4, 202659 min

How Saturday Night Live Builds Teams That Perform Under Pressure with Lindsay Shookus

High-performing teams need trust before the pressure hits. Lindsay Shookus spent 20 years at Saturday Night Live, including 10 years as a producer, where every week required a team of writers, cast members, celebrity hosts, musicians, producers, and crew to create a live show in six days. In this conversation, Lindsay joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to share what SNL taught her about building trust quickly, hiring people who elevate the room, reading talent under pressure, and creating a process that allows strong personalities to perform together. She also shares leadership lessons from Lorne Michaels, the importance of adaptability and coachability, and why authentic connection gives teams the confidence to take risks when the stakes are highest. Lindsay Shookus spent 20 years at Saturday Night Live, including 10 years as a producer, where she led talent booking, worked with celebrity hosts and musical guests, and helped scout and recruit cast members. She is a four-time Emmy Award winner, a former producer on 30 Rock, and the co-founder of Women Work Hard, a community supporting female entrepreneurs and leaders. Connect with Lindsay: Website Resources mentioned: Women Work Hard on IG Women Work Hard Website Rethinking Success by J. Douglas Holladay Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 - Introduction 06:25 - What it really takes to build trust quickly when high-performing people have only days to align. 14:22 - Why many leaders misread talent when they rely on credentials instead of team fit, coachability, and social awareness. 07:55 - A look inside how high-pressure decisions get made when timing is tight and every stakeholder has a point of view. 11:46 - Why hiring people who can take your job quietly raises the standard for the entire organization. 37:35 - What leaders often overlook about coachability once someone has already reached the top of their field. 43:49 - Lindsay Shookus’ perspective on why vulnerability creates stronger leadership connections than polished perfection. 51:36 - Why strategic absence can make a leader’s presence more valuable. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

May 31, 20266 min

John McMahon on Building a Better SKO

Sales kickoffs can become expensive calendar events if leaders are not clear on what the gathering is meant to accomplish. In this Revenue Builders replay, John McMahon shares his perspective on how CEOs and CROs should think about SKOs, from motivating the sales force and aligning teams around company goals to delivering training that actually prepares reps to execute. He also explains why peer-to-peer knowledge transfer is often the hidden value of bringing the sales organization together, why product presentations should only happen when the value proposition is clear, and how leaders can motivate reps by speaking directly to their daily challenges, career aspirations, and earning potential. John McMahon is a five-time CRO who has led revenue organizations at PTC, GeoTel, Ariba, BladeLogic, and BMC. He is the author of The Qualified Sales Leader and co-host of Revenue Builders, where he brings operator-level perspective on building and scaling enterprise sales teams. Connect with John: LinkedIn Book Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

May 28, 20261 hr 0 min

The Discipline Behind Nine-Figure Deals with Stuart Gwynn

Enterprise sales breaks down when teams confuse activity with progress, champions with coaches, or product interest with business urgency. Stuart Gwynn, a top-performing enterprise seller at MongoDB, joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to unpack what separates disciplined enterprise execution from deal chasing. Drawing from his path from SDR at Pure Storage to closing the largest deal in MongoDB history, Stuart explains why discovery is the foundation of value-based selling, how to test whether a champion will actually sell internally, and why large deals require multiple stakeholders, rigorous qualification, and a team operating around a shared account vision. He also shares how elite individual contributors lead without formal management titles, where AI is already changing buyer expectations, and why process only works when it is paired with judgment. Stuart Gwynn is an enterprise sales leader at MongoDB who has exceeded goal every year since joining the company in 2019. Before MongoDB, he spent seven years at Pure Storage, rising from SDR to named account rep and finishing as one of the company’s top performers before moving into strategic enterprise selling. Connect with Stuart: LinkedIn Episodes mentioned: The Discipline Behind Scaling from PLG to Enterprise with Sahir Azam Why Sales Execution Wins in an AI-First World with Brian McCarthy, President of Global Revenue and Field Operations at Cursor Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 – What it really takes to combine a rigorous value framework with the human judgment required to scale enterprise selling. 02:42 – Why discovery becomes the moment where real pain, executive relevance, and budget-worthy outcomes either surface or disappear. 07:59 – What leaders often overlook about the trust required before customers will quantify the true cost of a problem. 11:28 – Why champion identification quietly determines whether a deal has internal momentum or only surface-level support. 21:35 – The mistake many sellers make when pipeline pressure pushes them toward activity instead of disciplined qualification. 18:50 – A look inside the preparation habits that help enterprise teams align before high-stakes customer conversations. 56:25 – Why many leaders get top-talent management wrong by applying the same operating rhythm to every rep. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

May 24, 20267 min

How the Best Sellers Think Differently with Sahir Azam

Today’s episode features Sahir Azam, Partner at Index Ventures and former Chief Product Officer at MongoDB, where he helped scale Atlas into a multi-billion-dollar platform. This conversation breaks down what actually separates top enterprise sellers, from intellectual curiosity to resource orchestration, and why those traits alone aren’t enough without leadership building the right operating model around them. Sahir also explains how sales leaders create scale through enablement, accountability, and structured engagement, not just hiring more talent. For leaders trying to build repeatability in complex sales, this is a clear look at what it takes. Sahir Azam is a Partner at Index Ventures investing in AI infrastructure, and former Chief Product Officer at MongoDB where he led the Atlas transformation into a multi-billion-dollar platform. He brings a rare operator's perspective on building go-to-market discipline, scaling sales culture, and navigating the product-distribution balance that separates winners from founders who fail. Connect with Sahir: Index Ventures LinkedIn Get the Force Management framework for navigating product-go-to-market fit and building the sales discipline that separates scaling companies from those that fail: The Predictable Revenue Framework: Guide for Leaders Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

May 21, 202659 min

Revenue per Employee Is the New Endgame with Alex Bilmes

Revenue leaders are under increasing pressure to grow without adding headcount at the same rate, and AI is forcing a deeper conversation about productivity, consistency, governance, and organizational design. Alex Bilmes, CEO of Endgame, joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to discuss what his team learned from analyzing more than 30,000 real AI workflows across go-to-market teams. The conversation moves beyond tool adoption and into the harder leadership questions: how to create a centralized intelligence layer, how to prevent inconsistent messaging at scale, how RevOps must evolve, where AI can accelerate ramp and account coverage, and why human judgment becomes more important as automation gets better. Alex Bilmes is the CEO and founder of Endgame, a revenue intelligence platform built for go-to-market teams. His work focuses on helping revenue organizations centralize customer, methodology, and account knowledge so both humans and AI agents can operate from a consistent foundation. Connect with Alex: LinkedIn Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 - A look inside what happens when AI agents move from task automation to managing real revenue workflows. 06:02 - Why agent sprawl quietly creates new execution risks for CROs trying to scale AI across the revenue organization. 09:09 - What leaders often overlook about the knowledge foundation required to keep humans and AI working from the same truth. 29:29 - Why RevOps has to evolve from fulfilling requests to building systems that change how revenue teams operate. 35:04 - What it really takes for AI to improve productivity beyond simple headcount reduction. 48:28 - The governance risk many revenue leaders underestimate when AI adoption moves faster than controls. 51:26 - Why human judgment becomes more important, not less, as AI takes on more of the sales workflow. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

May 17, 20266 min

Why Consumption Pricing Makes Forecasting Harder with Devavrat Shah

Consumption pricing puts pressure on the forecast in places traditional SaaS models rarely exposed. Total usage may be easier to model from the CFO’s seat, but the field still has to answer harder questions: which customer, which channel, which rep, and when. In this replay segment, Devavrat Shah explains how AI can help teams learn across cohorts, spot patterns in uneven data, and create more trust in a forecast that would otherwise depend on isolated judgment calls. Devavrat Shah is an MIT professor, director of MIT’s Statistics and Data Science Center, and co-founder and CEO of Ikigai Labs. He brings a data science and operator’s perspective to forecasting, consumption pricing, and enterprise AI. Connect with Devavrat: LinkedIn Listen to the full episode here: Understanding AI Through History and Practical Application with Devavrat Shah Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

May 14, 20261 hr 0 min

Training the Mind for High-Stakes Sales: How FOPO Hurts Executive Presence with Dr. Michael Gervais

High-stakes sales puts pressure on the mind before it tests the deal strategy. Reps and leaders have to stay present through judgment, rejection, complex stakeholders, and the weight of the number. Dr. Michael Gervais joins John Kaplan and John McMahon to unpack FOPO, the fear of other people’s opinions, and its impact on executive presence, listening, trust, and decision-making. Drawing from his work with Olympians, world champions, Fortune 100 leaders, and elite teams, Dr. Gervais explains how mental skills like awareness, breathing, self-talk, imagery, and honest team dynamics help people operate with more clarity under pressure. The conversation brings performance psychology into the realities of enterprise sales, where long cycles, executive buyers, and high-consequence conversations demand discipline before the moment arrives. Dr. Michael Gervais is a performance psychologist, the founder of Finding Mastery, host of the Finding Mastery podcast, co-creator of the Performance Science Institute at the University of Southern California, and author of The First Rule of Mastery: Stop Worrying About What People Think of You. He has worked with Olympians, world champions, MMA fighters, Fortune 100 CEOs, and elite teams to help them train their minds for high-pressure performance. Connect with Dr. Gervais: Website Podcast IG Facebook LinkedIn Resources mentioned: Dr. Michael Gervais' Morning Mindset Routine The First Rule of Mastery: Stop Worrying About What Other People Think of You by Michael Gervais, PhD Rethinking Success: Eight Essential Practices for Finding Meaning in Work and Life by J. Douglas Holladay Hit Refresh by Satya Nadella Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 – Why FOPO quietly turns high-stakes sales conversations into moments of self-protection. 06:32 – A look inside the brain pattern that pulls leaders away from listening when presence matters most. 19:47 – What it really takes to tell the difference between useful pressure and activation that disrupts execution. 25:42 – Why elite performers treat mental training as a discipline, not a reaction to pressure. 41:18 – How rehearsing adversity helps leaders stay composed when the moment starts to break pattern. 48:20 – What leaders often overlook about the trust required for honest challenge on high-performing teams. 56:34 – Why psychological skill development is becoming part of how serious organizations prepare their people. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management