Product for Product Management

Hosted by Matt Green & Moshe Mikanovsky

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160

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Aug 2026

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About the show

Product for Product is a show hosted by Matt Green and Moshe Mikanovsky aimed at helping listeners navigate the growing depth of product management tools while also providing our insights into the categories that make up the PM role. We will take listeners with us on a journey of discovery through areas of product analytics, road mapping, productivity and many others. If you want to keep up with the latest in product management come along for the ride! Connect with us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct https://linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Connect with us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@productforproduct

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August 19, 202656 min

EP 159 - Human Judgement and Empathy with Rebecca Douglas

We’re continuing our new series on "First Principles for PMs in the Age of AI" with a conversation about two things AI can support, but not replace: human judgment and empathy. In this episode, Rebecca Douglas joins Matt and Moshe to unpack why these skills matter even more as product teams lean harder on AI tools. With 14+ years in product and a career that started in customer service and client relationships, Rebecca brings a grounded view of what product managers actually do when the stakes are real: prioritize tradeoffs, interpret messy context, build trust with stakeholders, and make decisions that AI can help inform but not own. Together, they explore where AI saves time, where it creates new risks, and why PMs still need to slow down, validate, and think deeply before shipping. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Rebecca: What human judgment really means in product work, and why it matters most in prioritization, tradeoffs, and strategic decisions What empathy looks like in practice for PMs, especially when serving both users and non-users like legal, operations, and compliance teams Why AI can help with synthesis, documentation, and repetitive work, but still needs human oversight and validation How regulated environments raise the bar for judgment, trust, and accuracy The risk of “empathy debt” when teams move too fast with AI and skip genuine user understanding How Rebecca uses AI in her own work to save time on research, competitive intelligence, and requirements, while keeping decision-making human Why product managers shouldn’t let AI become the answer to every problem just because it’s available How to balance AI fluency with restraint, especially when accuracy thresholds matter Why Rebecca’s poll choice of Human judgment and Empathy resonated so strongly with product leaders And much more! Want to connect with Rebecca? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccardouglas Workforce Intelligence Labs: https://www.workintellabs.com/ You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

August 5, 202630 min

EP 158 - PM First Principles in the age AI with Matt & Moshe

We’re kicking off a new series with a very timely question: what does product management look like in the age of AI? In this first episode, Matt and Moshe set the stage for *First Principles and Beyond for Product Managers in the Age of AI*, exploring how PM work is changing, what should stay human, and where AI can genuinely help. The conversation ranges from Matt’s work implementing software for government agencies to Moshe’s hands-on experiments with AI coding tools like Cursor, Kirk, and Claude Code. Along the way, they dig into the tension between speed and judgment, debate what “product sense” really means, and start shaping the core theme of the series: identifying the first principles of product management before layering AI on top. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore: - How product management is evolving as AI becomes part of the workflow - Why human-centered value delivery still matters, even when tools can generate work faster - What “product sense” means in practice, and whether it can be defined as a set of first principles - Experiments with AI coding tools, local development, and the possibilities of building faster with more leverage - The idea of using AI to augment product work without removing human judgment from the loop - Bring it to the audience by polling where PMs should remain involved, and where AI can take more of the load - And much more! Want to share your thoughts on the series or follow along?- - Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/pr... - Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ma... - Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mik... Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

June 24, 202642 min

EP 157 - Platform PM with Ashana Singhania

Platform work doesn’t look like a typical “one product, one user journey” world, and in this episode, we dig into what that really means with platform Product Leader Ashana Singhania. With a decade of experience across financial services at American Express and Goldman Sachs, Ashana has worked on both consumer-facing experiences and the complex platform layers that power them. She walks Matt and Moshe through how platform products differ from traditional products: instead of a single user flow, platforms support multiple product lines, regions, risk profiles, and entry points, all sitting on shared infrastructure like identity, decisioning, and risk data. That reality changes everything about how a PM does strategy, prioritization, communication, and stakeholder management. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Ashana: What “platform” really means in practice, and how horizontal capabilities underpin vertical consumer products How platform PMs think differently about impact when results show up indirectly through many dependent products Why tools like Productboard, and Jira need to be used differently for messy, non‑linear platform work Techniques for breaking down use cases, mapping the full scope, and prioritizing across multiple product lines and geographies The critical role of documentation, especially around variations, so teams don’t assume behavior is the same everywhere Governance and failure modes: Over‑standardization that harms UX Too much flexibility that creates chaos How to design a strong core plus controlled adaptation Partnering early with compliance, risk, ops, and legal in financial services so platform changes don’t get blocked late How AI is (and isn’t) used today in financial platforms, from fraud detection and behavior insights to reducing manual work, and where trust and regulation slow things down Ashana’s approach to defining a platform vision, living roadmaps, and reserving capacity for platform evolution A sneak peek at her new venture on income‑based affordability assessment in real estate and beyond And much more! Want to connect with Ashana? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashanasinghania You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

June 10, 202652 min

EP 156 - Stop Wasting Research with Jake Burghardt

This time we’re diving into a problem almost every product team has felt but rarely names: all the customer research you’ve already done… and then quietly forgotten. In this episode, Jacob Burghardt joins Matt and Moshe to talk about his new book Stop Wasting Research: Maximize the Product Impact of Your Organization's Customer Insights and how to turn research from a one‑off activity into a real product asset. Drawing on his path from early dot‑com research and UX work through consulting and a principal PM role at Amazon, Jacob shares why teams keep re‑running the same studies, ignoring past insights, and treating “research” as a meeting on the calendar instead of an input into every major decision. His book offers a big‑tent definition of research, which includes UX, market, data science, CS insights, and more, and a practical playbook for making all of it usable, visible, and integrated into product work. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Jacob: How he moved from hands‑on research and design into product management, and why he stayed obsessed with the problem space What “research” really includes today (far beyond user interviews or dashboards) Why so much research gets wasted and the three root causes behind it: Research isn’t prepared for future use Stakeholders aren’t motivated to care Insights aren’t integrated into planning, processes, or leadership rituals A step‑by‑step structure from the book: Taking inventory of the research you already have Diagnosing root causes in your org Choosing from a “menu” of tactics that fit your context What good looks like: strong operating models, clear places for research to plug in, and researchers treated as builders of internal products How smaller orgs without Product Ops can get started: simple visibility, mapping who’s doing what research, and basic communication channels The link between org mindset (feature factory vs. empowered teams) and how seriously research is used Practical ideas for connecting research to go‑to‑market, pricing, packaging, CS, and sales enablement How AI is changing the research landscape, where it helps and where human judgment is still essential And much more! Want to learn more or get the book? Book: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/stop-wasting-research Integrated Research: https://www.integratingresearch.com Medium: https://medium.com/@jakeburghardt LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakeburghardt You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

May 27, 202651 min

EP 155 - Reshaping product development for AI’s impact with Gil Broza

This conversation with Gil Broza goes straight at a question many product leaders are quietly wrestling with: how do you bring AI into product development without breaking everything that already works? Gil, author, coach, and long-time agility expert, returns to talk with Matt and Moshe about “reshaping product development for AI’s impact,” focusing not on building AI features, but on how AI is changing the way product and engineering teams work day to day. He argues that while AI massively increases speed and output, it doesn’t change the fundamentals of good product development: clear direction, evidence-based judgment, solid technical foundations, and healthy teams. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Gil: - Why AI is a “turbo engine in a car with old brakes” if you drop it into a system designed for human speed. - How leaders confuse more output with more value, and why faster code can just mean “legacy code years ahead of schedule”. - The difference between real agility and “performative Agile” (ceremonies, Jira theater) when AI tools are doing more of the work. - How to think in systems: what you’re actually optimizing for (predictability, innovation, time-to-value) and how AI changes the constraints and feedback loops in your org. - Practical blind spots leaders miss with AI adoption: - Treating AI as an implementation, not a transformation - Ignoring cognitive load and burnout when people work all day with agents - Shrinking teams for “efficiency” and accidentally increasing isolation - The three main ways to use AI in product development, and why you should be explicit about each: - As a pairing partner (thinking, coding, design) - As an autonomous agent - As “just” automation (summaries, note-taking, etc.) - Why skipping prototyping and experiments is now “less excusable” when AI can create testable prototypes in hours instead of weeks. - What changes (and doesn’t) in roles like PM, engineer, and scrum master when AI becomes a real team member. - Concrete steps leaders can take: apply systems thinking, revisit mindset and values, redesign ways of working for AI-speed conditions, and invest in continuous improvement again. - How Gil’s new courses (“Reshaping Product Development for AI’s Impact” and “Leading AI-Enabled Product Teams”) help product and engineering leaders do this work intentionally. Want to go deeper or work with Gil? - Website & courses: https://3pvantage.com / - Newsletter & articles: https://3pvantage.com/subscrib... / - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gi... / You can also connect with us and find more episodes: - Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/pr... -podcast - Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ma... - Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in /mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

May 13, 202648 min

EP 154 - Product Ashtangi with Bhavesh Ratanpal

We’re joined by Bhavesh Ratanpal. product leader, author, and long‑time practitioner of yoga philosophy, for a unique conversation about his book Product Ashtangi and how ancient Vedic wisdom can change the way we build products and lead teams.Bhavesh shares his journey from growing up in a family of priests in India, to a career in software development and product management at places like TD Bank, Citibank, and TELUS, and now to founding human‑centric AI startups in Canada. Along the way, he kept returning to one insight: a calm, clear mind makes better product decisions. Product Ashtangi is his attempt to codify that, combining the eight limbs of Ashtanga yoga with modern product practice. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Bhavesh: What “Product Ashtangi” means and why the first product you work on is yourself How the eight limbs of yoga (starting with Yama - truthfulness, ethics, ego‑awareness) translate into everyday product decisions The difference between building from ego and cosmetics vs. focusing on real user pain and social welfare How to shift between observer and experiencer modes so you can see problems clearly instead of reacting emotionally Stories of applying these principles in practice, from enterprise migrations and platform decisions to Bhavesh’s current AI products (pet adoption and strata governance) Treating your life like a product: personal sprints, self‑retros every two weeks, and continuously “shipping” a better version of yourself How karma yoga and product management align when you see products as vehicles for societal good, not just business metrics The structure of the book: Part 1 – theory connecting yoga sutras, Bhagavad Gita, and product thinking Part 2 – practical ways to adopt the eight limbs in your product work Where to start if you’re curious: books, practices, and small mindset shifts you can apply this week And much more! Want to learn more or get the book? Website: http://bhaveshratanpal.ca LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhaveshratanpal You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

April 29, 202649 min

EP 153 - Competitive Research Tools with Ran Erez

On this episode of the Product for Product Podcast, we’re joined by Ran Erez, product leader, podcaster, and founder of Re.focus, for a highly practical episode on competitive intelligence tools and tactics for product managers.With over a decade in B2B, B2C, and cyber (including three years on the mobile pod at monday.com), Ran has seen the same pattern repeat: teams either copy competitors blindly or ignore them entirely. He argues there’s a better way, treating competitors as a massive time‑saver for validation and strategy, without letting them drive your roadmap. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Ran: How Ran went from QA manager in cyber to owning product and driving millions in sales The biggest mistakes PMs make with competition: copying feature lists, believing marketing at face value, and doing “one‑and‑done” competitive intelligence Why focusing only on direct “budget competitors” misses the real job‑to‑be‑done The Competitive Intelligence Pyramid: Feature level – how others solve the same problem Product capabilities – pros/cons at whole‑product level Messaging – how value is communicated and evolves Product strategy – what bets they’re making Company strategy – where the business is actually heading Concrete methods and tools at each level, including: Finding real users of competitors through screeners, communities, and support/KB pages Running “SUSHI” competitive user research: side‑by‑side tests of your product vs. theirs over time Talking to integration partners and freelancers who implement multiple competing tools Using Wayback Machine, screenshots + Gemini, and Perplexity to track how sites, pricing, and positioning change Mining public earnings calls for strategic signals in the language leaders use How to systematically identify your true competitors (and what it means if you can’t find any) Treating CI as a muscle: what “small start” looks like and how to keep learning over time Using competitors to validate your ideas by putting their products in front of your users And much more! Want to connect with Ran or learn more? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ran-erez You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

April 15, 202658 min

EP 152 - From Project to Product Mode with Thomas Hartmann

We’re joined by Thomas Hartmann, co‑founder of Product Masterclass and co-author of From Project to Product Mode: A Game Plan to Unlock Scalability for B2B Software Products, for a candid look at why so many B2B software companies get stuck in “project mode” and what it really takes to become product‑led.Thomas shares his journey from entrepreneurship and lean startup experiments in San Francisco and Munich and to working with large organizations trying (and often failing) to scale. Over years of coaching and transformation work, he and his co‑founder and co-author, Sebastian Borggrewe, saw the same pattern: teams with a strong product mindset trapped inside companies that still behave like project shops, where sales and single big clients dictate the roadmap and success is measured by project delivery, not product outcomes. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Thomas: - How to recognize whether your company is truly in project mode or product mode - Why B2B software behaves very differently from B2C when making this shift - The “egg” analogy: product teams as the yolk, surrounded by an environment (the egg white) that often doesn’t care how things get built, only that they ship - The seven areas that fundamentally differ between project and product companies: segmentation, pricing, discovery, prioritization, engineering, configuration, and product management structures - Concrete signs of project mode: sales defining what to build, time‑and‑materials pricing, no real discovery, prioritization driven by the loudest customer, and PMs blocked from end users - Why not every company needs to become a product company, and why it’s a strategic choice, not dogma - A step‑by‑step path to move from project to product mode: - Step 1: Align leadership and name the current state (you are a project org) - Step 2: Find alignment among all product leaders on what to change - Step 3: Prioritize which of the seven areas to tackle first (you can’t fix everything at once) - Step 4: Enable the workforce and shift the surrounding “egg white,” not just product team skills - How AI fits differently in project vs. product organizations: as a delivery accelerator in one, and as a strategic validation and discovery tool in the other - Why tools like Claude Code can help PMs brainstorm, validate, and visualize, but won’t fix a broken mindset or culture - And much more! Want to learn more or work with Thomas? - Product Masterclass: https://www.product-masterclas... - From Project to Product Mode book: https://www.product-masterclass.com/book-project-to-product - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/th... You can also connect with us and find more episodes: - Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/pr... - Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ma... - Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mik... Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

April 1, 202649 min

EP 151 - Gender Based Data Analytics with Lea Khasidi

We’re excited to welcome Lea Khasidi, product management freelancer, founder and CEO of MaPott, and soon‑to‑be author, for a powerful conversation on gender-based data analytics for product managers. Lea shares her journey from intelligence work in the IDF, through product roles in EdTech, cybersecurity, and beyond, to founding a health management app for women with chronic conditions. Along the way, one pivotal discovery while consolidating four cybersecurity platforms, seeing men and women use the same filtering feature in completely different ways, sparked her deep focus on how gender shapes behavior in our products, especially in B2B contexts where it’s often ignored. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Lea: How a real-world analytics puzzle revealed stark gender differences in workflow, and changed how she thinks about usage data The three pillars of context we can’t change (who users are, how they act, where they work) and the one we can: what we give them in the product How “hacks” and workarounds used by different genders can hint at your next features A practical system for existing products: using analytics to segment by gender, spotting behavioral differences, then following up with observation and interviews How to approach gender representation when validating new products, and why balanced samples matter even for seemingly “neutral” tools Ways to lean on existing research about gender patterns in your domain (health, education, finance, etc.) instead of guessing from scratch Why early-stage startups should ship faster and learn from usage, while mature products might rely more on A/B tests and targeted outreach The risk of building solely from our own biases and assumptions, and why gender should be on the PM checklist, even if it’s not always the first lens Lea’s upcoming book on gender-based analytics for PMs One piece of advice she has for founders learning to trust their insight while staying open to the data And much more! Want to connect with Lea or learn more? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-khasidi/ Website: https://leakhasidi.com MaPott: https://www.ma-pott.com/ You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

March 18, 202653 min

EP 150 - OHLA Framework with Radhika Dutt

We’re delighted to welcome Radhika Dutt, product leader, founder, and author of Radical Product Thinking, for a deep dive into her newest work: the OHLA (formerly OHL) Toolkit. In this episode, Radhika joins Matt and Moshe to challenge how product teams set goals, measure progress, and use frameworks, proposing a puzzle‑driven alternative to traditional OKRs and “framework-following” culture. Drawing from her journey from electrical engineering and startups at MIT, through painful “product diseases” like Hero Syndrome and Obsessive Sales Disorder, Radhika shares why recipes and templates alone don’t create real progress. Instead, she introduces OHLA as a lightweight but powerful way to cultivate a Jedi mindset, one that keeps teams grounded in first principles, context, and learning rather than chasing vanity metrics and rigid targets. Join Matt, Moshe, and Radhika as they explore: Radhika’s path from engineering and founding to Radical Product Thinking and now the OHLA Toolkit Why classic goal‑setting and OKRs often backfire, creating “alibi progress,” outdated goals, and incentives to hide bad news OHLA in practice: Observe – what’s really happening in your product, team, or market Hypothesize – what might explain it and how you’ll test those ideas Learn – what the results actually tell you Adapt – how you’ll change course based on evidence “Puzzle setting” vs goal setting: defining puzzles with Observation, Open Questions, and an Objective summary to stay longer in the problem space How OHLA complements design thinking by forcing teams to remain curious and uncomfortable before jumping into solutions Practical stories, from maritime platforms to enterprise teams, where puzzle thinking led to very different solutions than OKR‑driven targets How managers can shift conversations from “Did we hit the number?” to “How well did it work? What did we learn? What will we try next?” A realistic path to transition: starting with your own puzzle, then introducing OHLA within your immediate sphere of influence And much more! Want to explore the OHLA Toolkit or connect with Radhika? OHLA Toolkit: https://www.radicalproduct.com/toolkit/#OHLToolkit Radical Product site: https://www.radicalproduct.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/radhikadutt/ You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️