Product for Product Management

Hosted by Matt Green & Moshe Mikanovsky

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163

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Sep 2026

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About the show

Product for Product is a show hosted by Matt Green and Moshe Mikanovsky aimed at helping listeners navigate the growing depth of product management tools while also providing our insights into the categories that make up the PM role. We will take listeners with us on a journey of discovery through areas of product analytics, road mapping, productivity and many others. If you want to keep up with the latest in product management come along for the ride! Connect with us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct https://linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Connect with us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@productforproduct

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October 28, 202647 min

EP 163 - Startups: Villain's Hat with Pavitra ST

What happens when someone uses your product exactly the way you hoped they wouldn’t? We’re kicking off a new series featuring founders building AI products for product people with Pavitra S. Tandon, founder of Villain’s Hat, to explore the risks hiding beyond the happy path. Drawing on 18 years in product and UX across companies and continents, Pavitra shares why she built an on-demand misuse investigation tool to help teams identify how features could be abused before they reach users. Rather than simply generating a list of things that could go wrong, Villain’s Hat provides structured investigations that assess potential harm, detection difficulty, and where misuse could happen in the user journey, helping teams prioritize what deserves attention. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Pavitra: Her journey through product and UX, and the recurring blind spot that inspired Villain’s Hat Why focusing only on the happy path can leave teams unprepared for unintended behavior and deliberate misuse How Villain’s Hat investigates abuse patterns and turns findings into prioritized reports for product teams What makes a structured, repeatable investigation different from asking ChatGPT or Claude, “What could go wrong?” How multiple perspectives, specialized agents, and memory across investigations help teams connect risks rather than assess each feature in isolation Early beta feedback, including newly surfaced risks and familiar concerns that teams had never prioritized How product managers, trust and safety teams, and risk and compliance professionals can use the tool as an extra pair of eyes Why security, legal, and leadership teams may need different views of the same findings What Pavitra learned by using Villain’s Hat to investigate itself, including an unexpectedly harsh communication style that led her to rework its agents Her approach to bringing investigations into existing AI workflows, with platform integrations and APIs ahead of potential design tool integrations Why proactive misuse investigation is about protecting users, trust, reputation, and revenue, not just adding another review step And much more! Want to connect with Pavitra or try Villain’s Hat? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pavitrast/ Website: https://www.villainhat.com/ If you are at Web Summit in Lisbon, November 9-12, you can meet her there in person Pavitra is offering listeners two free investigations. Reach out through LinkedIn or the Villain’s Hat website to learn more.Connect with us and find more episodes Product for Product Podcast: https://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

September 30, 202645 min

EP 162 - PM First Principles in the Age of AI Summary with Matt & Moshe

After a full series exploring what product managers should retain, and rethink, in the age of AI, Matt and Moshe sit down for an honest wrap-up. What did we learn, what changed our minds, and where do humans still matter most? In this special episode, we look back at the conversations on human judgment, empathy, vision, strategy, and stakeholder alignment, then connect them to our own day-to-day experiments with AI. Moshe shares what he learned while building and publishing his new mobile app, Mental Health Wallet, using tools like Kiro. Matt reflects on building an agentic orchestration product, and where AI has genuinely helped sharpen strategy and execution. The big takeaway?AI can dramatically accelerate product work, but speed, output, and confidence are not the same as understanding. The PM role is not disappearing. It is shifting toward stronger context-setting, better judgment, deeper customer understanding, and more intentional collaboration. Join Matt and Moshe as they reflect on: Rebecca Douglas’s conversation on human judgment and empathy, and why product managers still need to interpret ambiguity, understand users as people, validate AI outputs, and decide what not to build John Fontenot’s perspective on vision and strategy, including why AI can be a powerful thinking partner but cannot fully own long-term direction, strategic tradeoffs, market context, or business accountability Joy Adamson’s insights on stakeholder alignment, and why trust, relationship-building, incentives, organizational dynamics, negotiation, and emotional intelligence remain deeply human work How AI can support product work through research synthesis, organization, ideation, prototyping, requirements, competitive exploration, and strategic feedback Why AI-generated advice can sometimes feel like generic validation, and how better context and sharper prompts lead to more useful strategic feedback Why market context, competitive insight, and business goals still need to come from humans The changing balance between AI and human involvement across different product activities: Human judgment and empathy remain deeply human-led Vision and strategy can be increasingly AI-assisted, but remain dependent on human context Stakeholder alignment is heavily human, because trust, incentives, relationships, and politics cannot be fully automated Why user interviews and real customer conversations remain more valuable than AI-generated “users” or synthetic feedback How the importance of human involvement may shift by company stage, team size, and the number of stakeholders involved The potential future of product work, including AI agents, agent marketplaces, new workflows, and changing expectations for PMs And much more! You can connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

September 16, 202645 min

EP 161 - Stakeholder Alignment with Joy Adamson

When AI can summarize meetings, draft updates, and even recommend priorities, what remains uniquely human about stakeholder alignment? In this episode, product coach and advisor Joy Adamson joins Matt and Moshe to explore why alignment is still one of the most essential, and most human, parts of a product manager’s work. As part of our First Principles for PMs in the Age of AI series, Joy shares why stakeholder alignment is much more than keeping people informed or collecting feature requests. It is the ongoing work of connecting organizational needs with real customer and user needs, creating shared understanding of priorities, navigating competing incentives, and building enough trust to make difficult tradeoffs together. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Joy: What stakeholder alignment really means, and why true alignment reduces the need for constant stakeholder management Why the word “stakeholder” itself can create friction when people assume their request should automatically become a roadmap item How PMs can set healthy boundaries, say no with clarity, and prevent feature requests from becoming unchallenged commitments Why emotional intelligence, negotiation, trust, and informal relationship-building remain critical product skills The difference between simply considering stakeholder input and actually aligning on priorities, tradeoffs, and resource allocation How hidden motivations, incentives, politics, and organizational culture shape product decisions in ways AI cannot fully understand Where AI can help: meeting summaries, follow-ups, tailored stakeholder communications, preparation, and negotiation support Why AI-generated recommendations still need human oversight, accountability, and judgment, especially when trust, risk, or ambiguity are involved Could AI agents eventually become stakeholders themselves? What that might mean for product teams and decision-making Why junior PMs should deliberately build their human relationship and influence skills as AI takes on more operational tasks And much more! Want to connect with Joy? Website: https://www.digitaljoy.nl/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamsonj/ You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

September 2, 202649 min

EP 160 - Vision & Strategy with John Fontenot

We’re back with a familiar voice on the podcast: John Fontenot returns to continue our *First Principles for PMs in the Age of AI* series, this time focused on Vision and Strategy. In a conversation that blends product thinking, personal reflection, and a healthy dose of AI skepticism, John helps us explore what it really means for PMs to define where they’re going, and how to get there. John defines vision as the desired end state or future outcome, and strategy as the path, phases, and tradeoffs required to reach it. With examples ranging from long-term business goals to the realities of regulated industries, he explains why product managers still need to lead on vision and strategy even when leadership doesn’t provide a clear direction, and why AI can support this work, but not fully own it. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with John: What vision and strategy actually mean in product management, and why they’re easy to confuse - How to connect a big vision to practical milestones, obstacles, and key results Why AI can help with analysis and brainstorming, but can’t replace human creativity, empathy, or rule-breaking thinking - The limits of AI in regulated spaces like finance and healthcare, where context and compliance matter Why PMs often have to create strategy when the organization doesn’t hand it to them - How to use AI as a thinking partner without outsourcing your strategic judgment The balance between staying anchored in the long-term vision and adjusting to the realities of the market, user needs, and constraints John’s perspective on where product teams should be careful not to let AI flatten nuance or over-automate strategy And much more Want to connect with John? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnrfontenot/ You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

August 19, 202656 min

EP 159 - Human Judgement and Empathy with Rebecca Douglas

We’re continuing our new series on "First Principles for PMs in the Age of AI" with a conversation about two things AI can support, but not replace: human judgment and empathy. In this episode, Rebecca Douglas joins Matt and Moshe to unpack why these skills matter even more as product teams lean harder on AI tools. With 14+ years in product and a career that started in customer service and client relationships, Rebecca brings a grounded view of what product managers actually do when the stakes are real: prioritize tradeoffs, interpret messy context, build trust with stakeholders, and make decisions that AI can help inform but not own. Together, they explore where AI saves time, where it creates new risks, and why PMs still need to slow down, validate, and think deeply before shipping. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Rebecca: What human judgment really means in product work, and why it matters most in prioritization, tradeoffs, and strategic decisions What empathy looks like in practice for PMs, especially when serving both users and non-users like legal, operations, and compliance teams Why AI can help with synthesis, documentation, and repetitive work, but still needs human oversight and validation How regulated environments raise the bar for judgment, trust, and accuracy The risk of “empathy debt” when teams move too fast with AI and skip genuine user understanding How Rebecca uses AI in her own work to save time on research, competitive intelligence, and requirements, while keeping decision-making human Why product managers shouldn’t let AI become the answer to every problem just because it’s available How to balance AI fluency with restraint, especially when accuracy thresholds matter Why Rebecca’s poll choice of Human judgment and Empathy resonated so strongly with product leaders And much more! Want to connect with Rebecca? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccardouglas Workforce Intelligence Labs: https://www.workintellabs.com/ You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

August 5, 202630 min

EP 158 - PM First Principles in the age AI with Matt & Moshe

We’re kicking off a new series with a very timely question: what does product management look like in the age of AI? In this first episode, Matt and Moshe set the stage for *First Principles and Beyond for Product Managers in the Age of AI*, exploring how PM work is changing, what should stay human, and where AI can genuinely help. The conversation ranges from Matt’s work implementing software for government agencies to Moshe’s hands-on experiments with AI coding tools like Cursor, Kirk, and Claude Code. Along the way, they dig into the tension between speed and judgment, debate what “product sense” really means, and start shaping the core theme of the series: identifying the first principles of product management before layering AI on top. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore: - How product management is evolving as AI becomes part of the workflow - Why human-centered value delivery still matters, even when tools can generate work faster - What “product sense” means in practice, and whether it can be defined as a set of first principles - Experiments with AI coding tools, local development, and the possibilities of building faster with more leverage - The idea of using AI to augment product work without removing human judgment from the loop - Bring it to the audience by polling where PMs should remain involved, and where AI can take more of the load - And much more! Want to share your thoughts on the series or follow along?- - Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/pr... - Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ma... - Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mik... Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

June 24, 202642 min

EP 157 - Platform PM with Ashana Singhania

Platform work doesn’t look like a typical “one product, one user journey” world, and in this episode, we dig into what that really means with platform Product Leader Ashana Singhania. With a decade of experience across financial services at American Express and Goldman Sachs, Ashana has worked on both consumer-facing experiences and the complex platform layers that power them. She walks Matt and Moshe through how platform products differ from traditional products: instead of a single user flow, platforms support multiple product lines, regions, risk profiles, and entry points, all sitting on shared infrastructure like identity, decisioning, and risk data. That reality changes everything about how a PM does strategy, prioritization, communication, and stakeholder management. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Ashana: What “platform” really means in practice, and how horizontal capabilities underpin vertical consumer products How platform PMs think differently about impact when results show up indirectly through many dependent products Why tools like Productboard, and Jira need to be used differently for messy, non‑linear platform work Techniques for breaking down use cases, mapping the full scope, and prioritizing across multiple product lines and geographies The critical role of documentation, especially around variations, so teams don’t assume behavior is the same everywhere Governance and failure modes: Over‑standardization that harms UX Too much flexibility that creates chaos How to design a strong core plus controlled adaptation Partnering early with compliance, risk, ops, and legal in financial services so platform changes don’t get blocked late How AI is (and isn’t) used today in financial platforms, from fraud detection and behavior insights to reducing manual work, and where trust and regulation slow things down Ashana’s approach to defining a platform vision, living roadmaps, and reserving capacity for platform evolution A sneak peek at her new venture on income‑based affordability assessment in real estate and beyond And much more! Want to connect with Ashana? LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashanasinghania You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

June 10, 202652 min

EP 156 - Stop Wasting Research with Jake Burghardt

This time we’re diving into a problem almost every product team has felt but rarely names: all the customer research you’ve already done… and then quietly forgotten. In this episode, Jacob Burghardt joins Matt and Moshe to talk about his new book Stop Wasting Research: Maximize the Product Impact of Your Organization's Customer Insights and how to turn research from a one‑off activity into a real product asset. Drawing on his path from early dot‑com research and UX work through consulting and a principal PM role at Amazon, Jacob shares why teams keep re‑running the same studies, ignoring past insights, and treating “research” as a meeting on the calendar instead of an input into every major decision. His book offers a big‑tent definition of research, which includes UX, market, data science, CS insights, and more, and a practical playbook for making all of it usable, visible, and integrated into product work. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Jacob: How he moved from hands‑on research and design into product management, and why he stayed obsessed with the problem space What “research” really includes today (far beyond user interviews or dashboards) Why so much research gets wasted and the three root causes behind it: Research isn’t prepared for future use Stakeholders aren’t motivated to care Insights aren’t integrated into planning, processes, or leadership rituals A step‑by‑step structure from the book: Taking inventory of the research you already have Diagnosing root causes in your org Choosing from a “menu” of tactics that fit your context What good looks like: strong operating models, clear places for research to plug in, and researchers treated as builders of internal products How smaller orgs without Product Ops can get started: simple visibility, mapping who’s doing what research, and basic communication channels The link between org mindset (feature factory vs. empowered teams) and how seriously research is used Practical ideas for connecting research to go‑to‑market, pricing, packaging, CS, and sales enablement How AI is changing the research landscape, where it helps and where human judgment is still essential And much more! Want to learn more or get the book? Book: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/stop-wasting-research Integrated Research: https://www.integratingresearch.com Medium: https://medium.com/@jakeburghardt LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakeburghardt You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

May 27, 202651 min

EP 155 - Reshaping product development for AI’s impact with Gil Broza

This conversation with Gil Broza goes straight at a question many product leaders are quietly wrestling with: how do you bring AI into product development without breaking everything that already works? Gil, author, coach, and long-time agility expert, returns to talk with Matt and Moshe about “reshaping product development for AI’s impact,” focusing not on building AI features, but on how AI is changing the way product and engineering teams work day to day. He argues that while AI massively increases speed and output, it doesn’t change the fundamentals of good product development: clear direction, evidence-based judgment, solid technical foundations, and healthy teams. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Gil: - Why AI is a “turbo engine in a car with old brakes” if you drop it into a system designed for human speed. - How leaders confuse more output with more value, and why faster code can just mean “legacy code years ahead of schedule”. - The difference between real agility and “performative Agile” (ceremonies, Jira theater) when AI tools are doing more of the work. - How to think in systems: what you’re actually optimizing for (predictability, innovation, time-to-value) and how AI changes the constraints and feedback loops in your org. - Practical blind spots leaders miss with AI adoption: - Treating AI as an implementation, not a transformation - Ignoring cognitive load and burnout when people work all day with agents - Shrinking teams for “efficiency” and accidentally increasing isolation - The three main ways to use AI in product development, and why you should be explicit about each: - As a pairing partner (thinking, coding, design) - As an autonomous agent - As “just” automation (summaries, note-taking, etc.) - Why skipping prototyping and experiments is now “less excusable” when AI can create testable prototypes in hours instead of weeks. - What changes (and doesn’t) in roles like PM, engineer, and scrum master when AI becomes a real team member. - Concrete steps leaders can take: apply systems thinking, revisit mindset and values, redesign ways of working for AI-speed conditions, and invest in continuous improvement again. - How Gil’s new courses (“Reshaping Product Development for AI’s Impact” and “Leading AI-Enabled Product Teams”) help product and engineering leaders do this work intentionally. Want to go deeper or work with Gil? - Website & courses: https://3pvantage.com / - Newsletter & articles: https://3pvantage.com/subscrib... / - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gi... / You can also connect with us and find more episodes: - Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/pr... -podcast - Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ma... - Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in /mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

May 13, 202648 min

EP 154 - Product Ashtangi with Bhavesh Ratanpal

We’re joined by Bhavesh Ratanpal. product leader, author, and long‑time practitioner of yoga philosophy, for a unique conversation about his book Product Ashtangi and how ancient Vedic wisdom can change the way we build products and lead teams.Bhavesh shares his journey from growing up in a family of priests in India, to a career in software development and product management at places like TD Bank, Citibank, and TELUS, and now to founding human‑centric AI startups in Canada. Along the way, he kept returning to one insight: a calm, clear mind makes better product decisions. Product Ashtangi is his attempt to codify that, combining the eight limbs of Ashtanga yoga with modern product practice. Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Bhavesh: What “Product Ashtangi” means and why the first product you work on is yourself How the eight limbs of yoga (starting with Yama - truthfulness, ethics, ego‑awareness) translate into everyday product decisions The difference between building from ego and cosmetics vs. focusing on real user pain and social welfare How to shift between observer and experiencer modes so you can see problems clearly instead of reacting emotionally Stories of applying these principles in practice, from enterprise migrations and platform decisions to Bhavesh’s current AI products (pet adoption and strata governance) Treating your life like a product: personal sprints, self‑retros every two weeks, and continuously “shipping” a better version of yourself How karma yoga and product management align when you see products as vehicles for societal good, not just business metrics The structure of the book: Part 1 – theory connecting yoga sutras, Bhagavad Gita, and product thinking Part 2 – practical ways to adopt the eight limbs in your product work Where to start if you’re curious: books, practices, and small mindset shifts you can apply this week And much more! Want to learn more or get the book? Website: http://bhaveshratanpal.ca LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhaveshratanpal You can also connect with us and find more episodes: Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/ Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way. Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️