Out of Patients with Matthew Zachary

Hosted by Matthew Zachary Worldwide

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Aug 2026

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The longest-running independent healthcare podcast, Out of Patients with Matthew Zachary has supplied 19 years of unfiltered truth about American healthcare. The first online health podcast when it launched in 2007, it predates the medium itself. A 30-year brain cancer survivor, Matthew built the young adult cancer movement from scratch. Now he channels patient rage into political power, featuring on the air battle-scarred survivors, exhausted caregivers, and the rare insider brave enough to name what's killing us. Real stories from real people who refuse to accept that healthcare has to hurt this much. This is the show that started the conversation America is still not ready to finish. ]]>

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August 16, 202640 min

[BONUS] Subject Matter: Four Teenagers Built a Play From Scratch

Welcome to a very, very, very special bonus episode of Out of Patients, and one unlike anything published on this feed before. For nearly 20 years, Matthew Zachary has handed these microphones to patients, caregivers, doctors, advocates, troublemakers, and people with something worth saying. This time, he handed them to his daughter. Hannah Greenzweig grew up around this show, and now she has commandeered the studio with 3 of her wonderfully creative high school friends to talk about something they built entirely themselves. There is an enormous amount of Dad Pride baked into this episode, along with the strange and wonderful realization that sometimes your kid grows up, takes your chair, takes your microphone, and produces a better show without you.Hannah Greenzweig, Michael Aidinov, Gwendolyn Baldini, and Astronomy are student artists from the Roundabout Youth Ensemble at James Madison High School in Brooklyn. Working alongside teaching artists from Roundabout Theatre Company, they spent a school year creating an original play from the ground up, writing every scene, developing every character, and producing the performance themselves.Instead of discussing a Broadway production, they dissect one they invented.Their play, Subject Matter, began with a room full of improbable ideas. Murderous bounce houses, pirate family sagas, underwater adventures, courtroom dance battles, and birthday parties at math museums all competed before the group settled on an absurd rivalry between New York’s fictional History Museum and Math Museum. From there, they built a fully staged comedy about institutional competition, sabotage, oversized personalities, and the unexpected discovery that history and mathematics need each other more than either side wants to admit.The conversation pulls back the curtain on a creative process most audiences never see. The students explain how scenes evolved through constant rewrites, how characters emerged from improvisation, how costumes came together with last minute ingenuity, and how rehearsals often collapsed into uncontrollable laughter. They recount cutting favorite ideas, solving production problems with limited resources, and trusting each other enough to keep rewriting until the story worked.The episode also captures something harder to script: teenagers speaking honestly about collaboration without adults translating their experience. They celebrate classmates who stepped into unexpected roles, teachers who quietly held the production together, and the strange joy of creating something that exists only because everyone showed up.It is a conversation about theater, friendship, education, creativity, and what happens when 4 young artists get the microphones and the adults get out of the way.RELATED LINKSRoundabout Theatre CompanyRoundabout Youth EnsembleJames Madison High SchoolFEEDBACKLike this bonus episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

August 13, 202626 min

Standard Deviation S2 E6: Margins of Error (Series Finale)

A man is struck by a car on the streets of Los Angeles. In the emergency department, a CT scan ordered to look for traumatic injuries reveals something nobody expected: a mass in his colon. Days later, sitting across from Dr. Belinda Waltman, he calls the accident “a blessing in disguise.” Then he changes the subject. He is less worried about cancer than about whether he can afford to miss another day of work.  In this season finale of Standard Deviation, host Dr. Oliver Bogler explores what happens when biomedical science collides with the realities of the healthcare safety net. Dr. Waltman, a primary care physician in Los Angeles County, specializes in expedited cancer workups for uninsured and underinsured patients. Every diagnosis arrives carrying another set of questions about housing, transportation, food insecurity, wages, and survival that rarely appear in medical records or scientific literature.  For years, Waltman carried those stories without knowing how to bring them into the academic record. As a full-time clinician without a research lab, grant funding, or publication pipeline, she faced barriers familiar to many working scientists and physicians whose most important observations happen outside traditional research settings. With support from the Life Science Editors Foundation’s JEDI program, those experiences became The Margins Matter, a narrative medicine essay published in JAMA that argues the social realities surrounding cancer care are not background details. They are part of the disease itself.  Bogler traces how editorial mentorship transformed lived clinical experience into published scholarship while asking a larger question about who gets to shape the scientific record. The conversation examines cancer care, Medicaid, health-related social needs, medical publishing, and the structural incentives that determine which stories become evidence and which disappear from view.The result is a conversation about documentation, visibility, and why the margins of medicine often determine who survives long enough to benefit from its advances.RELATED LINKSDr. Belinda Waltman⁠The Margins Matter | JAMA⁠The Margins Matter | PubMed⁠Life Science Editors Foundation⁠FEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

August 11, 202639 min

[HIATUS] The Cancer Mavericks EP2: You’re Cured, Good Luck

In 1986, 23 survivors, physicians, nurses, attorneys, and community organizers gathered in Albuquerque, New Mexico, for a weekend that would permanently change the language and politics of cancer. Working late into the night, they debated not only strategy, but identity, ultimately declaring that from the moment of diagnosis, every person with cancer is a survivor.This episode traces the social and political forces that gave birth to the modern cancer survivorship movement. As advances in early detection and treatment allowed more people to live beyond cancer, survivors discovered that finishing treatment did not mean returning to normal life. Many faced employment discrimination, loss of insurance, social stigma, infertility, chronic health complications, and a healthcare system that viewed survival as the end of care rather than the beginning of a new chapter.Against the backdrop of the civil rights, disability rights, and community health movements of the 1960s and 1970s, physicians, activists, and survivors challenged medicine’s paternalistic culture and demanded a greater voice in decisions affecting their lives. Central to this story are physician and survivor Dr. Fitzhugh Mullan, whose landmark 1985 essay, Seasons of Survival, redefined survivorship as a lifelong continuum, and community organizer Katherine Logan, whose determination united dozens of grassroots organizations into what became the National Coalition for Cancer Survivorship.The coalition’s founding established principles that continue to shape oncology today. Survivors were no longer defined solely by disease or treatment outcomes. Their experiences became evidence. Their voices became essential to clinical research, healthcare policy, and patient advocacy. By redefining survivorship as an ongoing experience rather than a destination, the movement challenged medicine to recognize the lasting physical, emotional, financial, and social consequences of cancer.The ideas forged during that weekend in Albuquerque became the foundation of modern cancer survivorship. Nearly 40 years later, the coalition’s defining principle, that survivorship begins at diagnosis, continues to influence cancer care, research, policy, and the way millions of people understand life after cancer.RELATED LINKSNational Coalition for Cancer Survivorship⁠National Cancer Institute Office of Cancer Survivorship⁠The New England Journal of Medicine⁠Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA.gov)⁠Library of Congress | Civil Rights History Project⁠White Coat, Clenched Fist by Fitzhugh Mullan⁠FEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review The Cancer Mavericks: A History of Survivorship on your favorite podcast platform. For more information, visit CancerMavericks.com. Please send any questions to podcasts@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

August 6, 202642 min

[HIATUS] The Cancer Mavericks EP1: The Big C Wasn’t Always on TV

In 1971, President Richard Nixon signed the National Cancer Act, transforming cancer research with an unprecedented federal investment and launching what became known as the War on Cancer. The legislation did not emerge from scientific discovery alone. It was the culmination of decades of relentless advocacy by researchers, philanthropists, journalists, and patients who believed cancer demanded the same national commitment that had put astronauts on the Moon.This episode traces the origins of the cancer survivorship movement by returning to a time when cancer was rarely discussed in public, many physicians withheld diagnoses from their patients, and surgery offered few lasting cures. It follows the pioneering work of pathologist Dr. Sidney Farber, whose early chemotherapy research challenged conventional thinking, and Mary Lasker, whose political strategy, fundraising, and public campaigns helped transform cancer from a private tragedy into a national public health priority. Together, they built the coalition that reshaped federal support for oncology research and forever changed the relationship between science, government, and the American public.The story then turns to journalist and breast cancer survivor Rose Kushner, whose refusal to accept the standard one-step radical mastectomy challenged nearly a century of surgical dogma. Working alongside surgeon Dr. Bernard Fisher, Kushner helped bring evidence-based medicine to breast cancer treatment through randomized clinical trials that demonstrated less invasive surgery could achieve equivalent outcomes. Their efforts changed clinical practice, strengthened informed consent, and helped establish the principle that patients should participate in decisions about their own care.The breakthroughs explored in this episode extended far beyond new treatments. They redefined the role of patients in medicine, accelerated clinical research, and laid the foundation for modern cancer survivorship. The movement that followed would not simply help more people live longer. It would change what surviving cancer meant.RELATED LINKSNational Cancer Institute⁠National Cancer Act of 1971⁠American Cancer Society⁠Dana-Farber Cancer Institute⁠National Library of Medicine⁠The New England Journal of Medicine⁠FEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review The Cancer Mavericks: A History of Survivorship on your favorite podcast platform. For more information, visit CancerMavericks.com. Please send any questions to podcasts@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

August 4, 202650 min

[HIATUS] The Cancer Mavericks Goes to Hollywood (With My Mom)

Long before cancer survivors organized into a movement, Hollywood had already shaped how Americans understood the disease. Films rarely used the word “cancer,” physicians often withheld diagnoses from patients, and the people who survived were almost nowhere to be found on screen.Recorded before The Cancer Mavericks: A History of Survivorship became a documentary series, this bonus conversation explores where the project first began. Matthew Zachary sits down with his mother, Roz Greenzweig, a retired educator and lifelong film enthusiast whose memories of classic cinema became an unexpected lens for understanding how cancer was portrayed throughout the twentieth century.Together, they revisit landmark films including Dark Victory, Love Story, and other iconic portrayals that reflected an era when cancer was treated as unspeakable, inevitable, and almost always fatal. Their conversation contrasts those carefully constructed Hollywood narratives with the lived reality of a family confronting a brain cancer diagnosis in 1995, revealing how popular culture both reflected and reinforced the fears surrounding the disease.The discussion also foreshadows many of the themes explored throughout the documentary series: the evolution of patient advocacy, the emergence of cancer survivorship, the role of caregivers, and the power of storytelling to influence public understanding. Before policy changed, before advocacy organizations grew into national movements, conversations like these were already challenging long-held assumptions about what cancer looked like and who had the right to tell its story.Consider this the prologue to The Cancer Mavericks. Before the movement found its history, it began with a family trying to make sense of the stories they had inherited.RELATED LINKSAmerican Cancer Society⁠National Cancer Institute⁠American Film Institute⁠ER (NBC)⁠50/50 (Official)⁠Chasing Life (ABC Family Archive)⁠FEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review The Cancer Mavericks: A History of Survivorship on your favorite podcast platform. For more information, visit CancerMavericks.com. Questions? Email podcasts@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

July 28, 202641 min

Your Benefits May Vary: Rebecca Bloom

Rebecca Bloom is a former employee benefits and executive compensation attorney who spent more than 25 years helping women navigate cancer, work, insurance, disability coverage, and financial survival. She is the founder and author of When Women Get Sick, a book built from decades inside the legal, workplace, and patient advocacy systems most people only discover after diagnosis.Bloom started in Big Law at Simpson Thacher handling employee benefits and compensation work she originally chose to pay off student loans. Then her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. Suddenly the language she used in corporate law offices became the language of survival at home. Explanation of benefits forms. Coverage disputes. Second opinions. Disability protections. Medical leave. Bills no one could explain.That collision changed the direction of her life.In this episode, Bloom explains how serious illness quietly turns patients into unpaid administrators managing paperwork, logistics, financial risk, and emotional labor while trying to survive treatment. She breaks down how employer based health insurance shapes nearly every aspect of cancer care in America and why women often carry the invisible burden of protecting everyone else from discomfort while they themselves fall apart.The conversation digs into workplace power, the illusion of the healthcare “safety net,” caregiver exhaustion, and the class divide hiding underneath patient empowerment culture. Bloom explains why educated, insured women with resources still struggle to navigate healthcare bureaucracy and what happens to patients without those advantages.This episode explores cancer care, health insurance, employee benefits, patient advocacy, workplace protections, caregiving, and the structural incentives that force sick people to become project managers of their own survival.RELATED LINKSRebecca BloomWhen Women Get SickBay Area Cancer ConnectionsSimpson Thacher & BartlettFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

July 21, 202642 min

Mission, Margin, and the Women Left Waiting: Vasanta Pundarika

Vasanta Pundarika built her career inside healthcare investment banking before launching Lotuspring, an advisory firm focused on women’s health and behavioral health. She spent nearly 20 years advising healthcare systems, treatment providers, and growth stage companies on mergers, financing, and operational strategy while watching the industry repeatedly misunderstand the people it claimed to serve.The conversation starts unexpectedly with anthropology, bread, and language. Vasanta explains how she spent years changing the pronunciation of her own name to make other people comfortable before eventually reclaiming it. That thread opens into a much larger discussion about adaptation, identity, and what institutions quietly train people to tolerate.From there, the discussion moves into behavioral health, women delaying care, and the invisible labor that healthcare business models routinely ignore. During COVID, Vasanta noticed men’s behavioral health units refilled faster than women’s units. The reason had nothing to do with demand. Women were still home managing caregiving responsibilities, children, aging parents, and households while their own mental health collapsed in the background.The episode examines what happens when healthcare companies become “snazzy big brands” before building real clinical substance underneath. Vasanta describes the tension between mission and margin inside healthcare startups, private equity backed care models, and behavioral health expansion. The conversation pushes on who benefits when healthcare scales aggressively, who absorbs the operational pressure, and how patient trust erodes long before executives notice it on a dashboard.They also discuss patient advocacy culture, anthropology as systems analysis, healthcare capitalism, prior authorization, investor language, and why some clinically excellent companies never survive long enough to scale.RELATED LINKSVasanta PundarikaLotuspringWomen’s Health HorizonsSakhi for South Asian SurvivorsNACDPrinceton University Anthropology DepartmentFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

July 14, 202642 min

You Shouldn’t Need AI to Survive Cancer: Brad Power

Brad Power spent years advising major corporations on systems design, process engineering, and decision making before lymphoma shoved him into the patient side of American healthcare. Instead of accepting the experience at face value, he started reverse engineering the machinery around cancer itself. Brad is the founder of Cancer Patient Lab and Open Cancer AI, two projects built around a blunt reality most patients discover too late: the healthcare system rewards people who know how to navigate it. Everyone else risks getting steamrolled by information asymmetry, insurance barriers, administrative friction, and institutional incentives designed around efficiency instead of human survival.The conversation starts with Harvard Business Review and Tumblr blogs before moving directly into the darker architecture underneath modern cancer care. Power explains how hospitals optimize for throughput, how insurance companies reward operational consistency over personalized medicine, and why many patients quietly end up needing a crash course in oncology, reimbursement policy, and behavioral psychology while fighting for their lives.The discussion digs into CAR-T therapy, functional testing, AI assisted decision support, and the growing collision between personalized medicine and standardized care pathways. Power argues that engaged patients often get better outcomes because they learn how to push for off guideline treatments, contest denials, and ask smarter questions. The counterpoint lands hard: patients should never have needed to become experts in the first place.The episode also explores the cultural consequences of AI entering cancer care. OpenAI advertising, data privacy, trust erosion, pharmaceutical influence, and “agentic AI” all collide inside a healthcare economy already drowning in distrust. Power sees artificial intelligence as a force multiplier for patient literacy and access. The larger system still decides who gets approved, who gets delayed, and who gets left behind.By the end, the conversation lands exactly where modern healthcare keeps forcing people to land: survival increasingly depends on learning how the machine works before the machine works on you.RELATED LINKSBrad PowerCancer Patient LabOpen Cancer AIHarvard Business ReviewResearch to the PeopleCAR T Cell TherapyFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

July 9, 202610 min

Standard Deviation S2 E5: Pitch Imperfect

By the time the paper hit version 71, Dr. Nirosha Murugan had already done the hard part. The data were real. The experiment had worked. A team of researchers had used a wearable bioreactor to trigger limb regeneration in frogs, a result with obvious implications for regenerative medicine. But the science still wasn’t getting over the line. The problem wasn’t the work. It was the translation.On this episode of Standard Deviation, host Oliver Bogler talks with Dr. Nirosha Murugan, a biophysicist and Tier II Canada Research Chair in Tissue Biophysics at Wilfrid Laurier University, about what happens when a scientist working at the edges of quantum biology, bioelectricity, and tissue regeneration runs headfirst into the unwritten rules of academic publishing. Murugan’s research asks biologists to think beyond molecules and chemistry alone, and to consider the physical signals, electromagnetic fields, and invisible forces that shape development and healing. It is ambitious science. It is also exactly the kind of work that can make gatekeepers nervous.Bogler follows Murugan through the less glamorous part of discovery: the hidden curriculum of getting a paper published, securing scientific credibility, and learning that data do not simply “speak for themselves.” Murugan describes how jargon buried the pitch of her own work, how a lack of editorial support left her at a disadvantage, and how the JEDI program at the Life Science Editors Foundation paired her with a former journal editor who taught her how to structure a manuscript, write a cover letter, and survive peer review.The result was publication in Science Advances, but the larger story is about power. Who gets taught the rules of biomedical research. Who has access to grant writers, editors, and institutional polish. Who is left to brute-force their way through the maze. And how one scientist, having finally found the map, now makes sure her own trainees do not have to learn it the hard way.RELATED LINKSDr. Nirosha Murugan⁠Wilfrid Laurier University⁠Life Science Editors Foundation⁠JEDI Program⁠Science Advances paper on limb regeneration⁠FEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

July 7, 202641 min

The Doctor Will Leave You Now: Jessica Peatross

Dr. Jess Peatross trained in conventional medicine and worked as a hospitalist before she started questioning why so many chronically ill patients kept getting worse inside the healthcare system she trusted. Her perspective carries weight because she spent years following every protocol exactly as taught before walking away from hospital medicine entirely.Raised in Huntington, West Virginia during the opioid crisis, she entered medicine believing the system existed to heal people. Instead, she found hospitals driven by billing codes, liability management, and pharmaceutical dependence while patients with chronic illness, autoimmune disease, mold exposure, and chronic pain cycled endlessly through appointments and prescriptions.Dr. Peatross explains what pushed her toward functional medicine, cannabis therapy, and prevention focused care after watching patients improve only after leaving conventional treatment pipelines behind. The conversation tackles physician burnout, chronic illness stigma, healthcare incentives, and the growing collapse of trust between patients and institutions.The discussion also moves into supplements, environmental toxins, ultra processed food, and the uncomfortable economics behind keeping people permanently sick but continuously billable. Dr. Peatross describes the professional backlash that comes with challenging medical orthodoxy while Matthew connects her experience to the broader erosion of public trust across American healthcare.Together they unpack what happens when patients stop believing the system can help them and start searching elsewhere for answers.RELATED LINKSDr. Jess PeatrossInstagramMarshall UniversityBrave New WeedFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.