Nonprofit on the Rocks

Hosted by Matt Kamin

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Nov 2026

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About the show

Passionate about making a difference but tired of dry, snooze-worthy industry podcasts? Nonprofit on the Rocks shakes things up with engaging conversations and actionable advice — all served with a drink in hand. Join Envision Consulting co-founder and nonprofit expert, Matt Kamin, as he and his esteemed (and occasionally tipsy) guests dive into fundraising strategies, leadership challenges, and the latest trends shaping the nonprofit world. Whether you're a seasoned pro, volunteer, or just here for the drinks, you'll leave with inspiring ideas to amplify your mission. So pull up a seat, pour yourself something tasty, and join us for thought-provoking chats that spark positive change. New episodes drop monthly — Cheers!

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November 2, 2026Episode 1014 min

Minisode #1: All About Boards

In the very first mini episode of Nonprofit on the Rocks, Ashley finally gets Matt to flip the script and let her ask the questions of him! What follows is a lively deep dive into what makes a nonprofit board truly balanced, inspired by their earlier conversation with Nonprift Launch Academy founder, Sharmon Lebby (go listen if you haven’t) Matt breaks down the elusive "board matrix," why being a CEO is the loneliest job around, and why your board needs thought partners — not just warm bodies with checkbooks. He and Ashley tackle the hard truths about board diversity, the art of recruiting board members like you're hiring employees, and the very real menace of the board bully (there’s at least one great blog about in on Envision’s website). Along the way, Matt reluctantly plugs Envision's Board Builders program, which has placed nearly 1,000 board members across the country. There's coaching, roundtables, and even a matchmaking event called Cause Cupid. Ashley reminds listeners they can find all of it at boardbuilders.net. The episode wraps with a heated debate about trust falls, and whether either host would actually catch the other if they fell — spoiler: Matt absolutely would not. It's nonprofit governance served straight up, with a heavy pour of banter. 00:00 – Welcome Ashley finally gets Matt to do a mini-episode and flips the script, putting herself in the host chair and Matt in the hot seat! 1:46 — The Board Matrix: Know What You Have (and What You Don't) Matt explains the board matrix — 15 to 20 categories that map who's on your board and, more importantly, who's missing. It's not glamorous, but it's step one. 2:04 — Surprise: Matt Was an Executive Director (in New Jersey, no less) Ashley is floored. Matt digs into his past running a homeless shelter and explains why being a CEO is the loneliest job around — and why boards need to be thought partners, not seat-warmers. 2:52 — What a Great Board Actually Looks Like Thought partners, money connections, client representation, industry diversity, and yes — doctors (for all the Botox). Matt's full wish list for a balanced board. 3:48 — Building a Diverse Board (Spoiler: It Requires Actual Recruiting) The biggest obstacle to diversity on boards? Board members recruit people who look and think like themselves. Matt's solution: treat board recruitment like hiring an employee. 5:04 — Finding People Is the Easy Part. Onboarding Is Where It Gets Real. You can find great people all day long, but if you don't have a process to vet and onboard them, you're building a house on sand. Matt says nobody has time for this. He says it's the most important part. 5:29 — Enter Board Builders Ashley introduces Envision's Board Builders program. Matt reluctantly admits he should be selling it. Recruiting, CEO roundtables, coaching, bylaws education — all for a monthly fee, tiered to fit any nonprofit budget. 7:18 — 1,000 Board Members Placed & Counting Through Cause Cupid networking events and Board Builders, Envision has placed nearly 1,000 board members across the country. Matt is genuinely proud of this. He should be. 7:45 — Board Bullies Are Real (And They Will Ruin Everything) The red flags segment. Someone who joins for their ego can change your entire board dynamic. Matt's rules: never bring anyone on immediately, put them on a committee first, and phase in new members so you can spot trouble. Allison wrote a legendary blog about this. So did Ashley, apparently. 9:44 — Your Board = Your Culture Your board represents your core values and your mission. Don't bring on warm bodies for the sake of filling seats, and don't take the check from someone who'll be terrible. Build a board that actually works. 10:24 — What Makes the Best Boards Great Passion matters, but it's really about relationships. The board chair and CEO need to be a team. There should be conflict — safe conflict. There should be friendships, retreats, and genuine connection. The strongest boards are where people care, get along (mostly), and have each other's backs. 11:38 — Board Retreats: Not Just for Trust Falls Matt loves a board retreat. He wakes up at 7:30 AM on Saturdays — which, for a noted non-morning person, is practically a miracle. The key: walk away with action items and energy for the year ahead, not just vague warm feelings. 12:45 — The Trust Fall Debate: Would They Catch Each Other? (No.) Ashley assumes Matt loves trust falls. He does not. What follows is a thorough exploration of whether either host would catch the other in a trust fall. The answer, from both directions, is a resounding no. Matt suspects Ashley has been mediocre on purpose just to take his job. 14:10 — Resources & Where to Find Everything Board Builders at boardbuilders.net, blogs and past episodes at envisionnonprofit.com, and a final thank-you from Matt — who survived his first mini episode. • Board Builders: boardbuilders.net • Envision nonprofit consulting: envisionnonprofit.com • Our episode with Sharmon Levi — go back and listen!

October 8, 2026Episode 947 min

Nonprofit Launch Academy: with founder, Sharmon Lebby

What happens when a neuroscience researcher turned ethical fashion entrepreneur accidentally founds a nonprofit and lives to tell the tale? She builds a course to stop you from making the same mistakes. This week, Matt sits down with Sharmon Lebby — founder of the Nonprofit Launch Academy — to dig into what it really takes to build a nonprofit from scratch — the right way. Sharmon shares lessons from her own founder journey, including the mistakes that led her to create a comprehensive eight-module course for aspiring nonprofit founders. From why your friends make terrible board members to why you should plan your exit before you even open the bank account, this episode is a masterclass in doing good without losing your mind. 0:00 — Cold Open & Guest Intro Sharmon Leby's scenic route: neuroscience researcher → ethical fashion entrepreneur → accidental nonprofit founder. Matt teases the full lineup: boards, paying yourself, succession, and when to say no to a friend with a nonprofit dream. 4:00 — Neuroscience, Fashion & the Accidental Nonprofit How a biology degree, a spontaneous clothing line, and five women in sustainability led to Sharmon's first nonprofit — by sheer hubris. She learned she had no clue what she was doing. Matt reassures: none of us do. 8:00 — Boards Make or Break You Sharmon's biggest early mistake: recruiting friends instead of building a strategic board. Matt's rule: a great board = great org, a terrible board = game over. How to start with a skills assessment. 11:45 — The 5 Board Archetypes & When to Pay Yourself The five people every board needs — from a compliance mind to a community voice. Then: when can a founder realistically start taking a salary? Sharmon says build a "dream budget" from day one. 13:48 — Succession Planning Starts on Day One Counterintuitive but critical: planning your exit from the beginning means better systems, better infrastructure — and the ability to actually take a day off without the org collapsing. 18:40 — The 5:1 Pay Ratio Hot Take Matt's first ED job paid $55K. Now he places people making $400K. Sharmon advocates the 5:1 rule: no CEO earns more than 5× the lowest-paid employee. They both agree: if your staff needs a second job to survive, you don't get to make $400K. 22:55 — Failure, Luck vs. Skill & Nonprofit Launch Academy Getting comfortable with messing up. Matt asks his favorite interview question — lucky or skillful? — and they disagree. Plus: how the Academy was born from watching founders repeat the same mistakes (named with help from a thesaurus). 24:37 — Great Ideas, Terrible Ideas & What Makes a Strong Founder A brilliant nonprofit bridging US and African entrepreneurs under AGOA. A terrible one funneling grant money back into a for-profit. And the qualities that separate a strong founder from an ego-driven one. 28:35 — When to Start, When to Join & When to Walk Away Another org already does what you want? Find the gap — or go volunteer there first. And when Sharmon says don't : if you can't track money, won't do compliance, or want to shuffle funds, the IRS will come for you. Start a for-profit instead. 32:11 — Success Story & "Build Slow" The student who tried to skip to the last module and file her 501(c)(3) immediately — then realized she needed the basics. Sharmon's advice to her younger self: build slow . Plus two warning signs your nonprofit isn't sustainable. 38:14 — Where to Find Sharmon & Why Hire Her Find her at blesseddesignsco.com , LinkedIn, Instagram, and Threads ("where I make all my enemies"). She reads between the lines and gives words to what founders feel but can't articulate. Eight modules, build-as-you-go. 42:45 — Outro with Ashley: Lake Arrowhead Edition Ashley joins from a lake because Matt bailed for a six-month-waitlist restaurant that turned out to be terrible. Plus the great Halloween decorating debate and a recap of Sharmon's episode.

September 10, 2026Episode 845 min

Nonprofit Hub on the Rocks: with Meghan Speer

Two nonprofit podcast hosts. Zero rehearsal. One refreshingly honest conversation. Matt Kamin (Nonprofit on the Rocks) and Meghan Speer (Nonprofit Hub) team up for the first-ever crossover between their shows — and it's basically two friends geeking out over everything wrong (and right) with the nonprofit world. They get into the real talk fast: how to tell client stories without exploiting people, whether AI is about to change how donors decide who to support, and why nobody can agree on the "right" board size. Along the way: a hot take on why "executive director" undersells one of the hardest jobs in America, a hard line on never passing a budget in the red (your endowment is not a safety net!), a case for more nonprofit mergers, and a rant about leaders who care more about their "legacy" than the mission itself. Candid. A little chaotic. Occasionally emotional. Packed with hard-won wisdom from two people who've spent their careers in the trenches — exactly what happens when you put two podcast hosts in a room and tell them to just talk. 00:00 – Welcome & Introduction -- Matt and Meghan kick off the first-ever joint episode, previewing a wide-ranging conversation on ethical storytelling, AI, board governance, budgets, and legacy. 4:02 – Meet the Hosts -- Megan introduces Nonprofit Hub, providing professional development for nonprofit leaders, and Matt shares his work at Envision Consulting placing C-suite and board members. 7:02 – Ideal Board Size -- The two debate working boards vs. governing boards and why the right number depends on the board's role, not the org's size. 9:00 – Ethical Storytelling in Nonprofits -- Consent, dignity, and boundaries in nonprofit storytelling, including sharing stories of failure and creating photo/story consent forms. 16:03 – AI. And the Future of Donor Strategy -- How will ChatGPT and Claude change donor research? Exploring what next-gen donors expect and the ethics of disclosing AI-generated content. 18:03 – Leadership Transitions and Generational Shifts -- The great wealth transfer also means a leadership transfer. Founders staying through COVID, Gen X getting skipped, and succession planning. 23:13 – CEO vs Executive Director -- — A spirited debate on whether the title "Executive Director" devalues nonprofit leaders and why running a nonprofit is a CEO job in all but name. 26:52 – Budgets in the Red & Endowment Myths -- Don't pass a deficit budget, and an endowment is not a safety net for bad financial practices—it's for the growth of the organization. 28:33 – Nonprofit Mergers -- Why nonprofits resist merging while competing for the same donors. The case for consolidation, shared services, and leaving ego at the door. 31:38 – Legacy, Ego & Why We Do This Work -- Matt's biggest pet peeve: the word "legacy." Both hosts share personal stories of what brought them to the nonprofit sector. 34:55 – The Podcasting Experience -- Meghan on producing a weekly podcast and what she's learned from hundreds of guests; Matt on how Nonprofit on the Rocks was born from COVID-era networking. 39:22 – Post Show: Gen X Playground Banter -- Matt and producer Ashley relive the death-trap playgrounds of their youth and debate whether Gen X is the "Prince Charles" of generations.

July 30, 2026Episode 732 min

Survey Says? "State of the Nonprofit Worker Report"

State of the Nonprofit Worker Report (SNWR) Spoiler: it's not a K-pop band. It's the data initiative that's about to make your next board meeting way more interesting. In this episode, host Matt sits down with Allison (Envision Consulting) and Efrain (Center for Nonprofit Management) to talk about the State of the Nonprofit Worker Report — the survey aiming to answer the question every nonprofit leader is whispering at happy hour: are we in a silent recession, or does it just feel that way because we're all running on coffee and will power? What you'll learn: • Why this report goes way beyond "just another compensation survey" (yes, they know you're tired of those too) • The elephant-in-the-room questions: federal funding cuts, the AI panic, and whether remote work is actually dead or just resting • Why quality-of-life metrics — like childcare, living wages, and whether you can actually pay your bills — matter more than a salary number on a spreadsheet • How CNM and Envision teamed up to be the "convener" and "data hub" so nonprofits stop making six-figure decisions based on vibes and anecdotes • A truly inspired tangent about an $8,000 laundry-folding robot and why that, too, counts as AI we can get behind Whether you're filling out the survey as an individual or as an organization, the hosts want you to know: yes, it's a big ask, and yes, they know surveys are the bane of your existence. But without your data, there's no story — and no story means no change. Learn more and take the survey at cnmsocal.org. [0:00] — Welcome & Episode Introduction Matt Kamin introduces the episode's focus: the State of the Nonprofit Worker Report (SNWR), a major data initiative documenting the challenges facing the nonprofit sector. Guests Allison Fuller (Envision Consulting) and Efrain Escobedo (Center for Nonprofit Management) join the show. [3:00] — What Is SNWR? Efrain explains that SNWR is an initiative designed to produce hard data on what he calls "the most silent travesty" — a nonprofit sector contraction potentially worse than the 2008 recession. The report builds on CNM's 2022 Equitable Nonprofit Workplace report, but goes beyond well-being metrics into economic security, layoffs, and workplace reality. [6:00] — Why the Envision–CNM Partnership Matters Allison discusses why Envision and CNM teamed up: CNM brings convening and capacity-building power, while Envision serves as the data hub. Together, they aim to produce insights actionable for philanthropic partners, funders, and policymakers — something neither could achieve alone. [9:00] — The Elephant-in-the-Room Survey Questions Allison runs through the survey's key topics: federal funding cuts and their impact, AI adoption and worker displacement, whether remote work is dead, cost-of-living measures like childcare affordability and commute distance, and the big question — is the nonprofit sector in a "silent recession"? [12:00] — Trends Efrain Is Hearing from Nonprofit Leaders Efrain shares two troubling trends: nearly every nonprofit leader he's spoken with has had to reduce staff or consolidate programs, and managing the cultural fallout of those changes is creating deep workplace anxiety. He also highlights bright spots — growing curiosity about AI and real resilience through creative partnerships. [15:00] — How Leaders Should Use the Results Efrain hopes leaders will use the report to contextualize their own struggles, understand they're not alone in a sector-wide shift, and make data-driven decisions around budgeting, salary competitiveness, and workforce planning for fiscal year 2028. Allison shares what excites her most: quantifying quality-of-life measures like childcare and living wage to see how the sector is treating its own people. [18:00] — Why Nonprofits Should Take the Survey Efrain makes the case for participation: the data goes into a commons, free and accessible to all. He frames it as collective action — "if not now, when?" — arguing that the sector can't expect change if it won't come together to tell its own story. Every response helps demonstrate to policymakers and philanthropy that nonprofits are too critical to fail. [21:00] — Philanthropy's Role & the Irvine Foundation Efrain expresses gratitude to The James Irvine Foundation, which provided the majority of funding for the study. He challenges philanthropy to move beyond anecdote-driven decisions and use real data when investing in the nonprofit sector — one of the largest industries that still operates largely without it. [24:00] — Survey Logistics & the Free Digital Dashboard Allison details how to participate: the survey can be taken as an individual (15–25 minutes) or as an organization (45 minutes+). She announces a major upgrade — a free, interactive digital dashboard replacing the old static report, with a full-time developer and data team building filtering and comparison tools. There's nothing else like it on the market. [27:00] — What Is the Center for Nonprofit Management? Efrain gives his elevator pitch: CNM has served the sector for 50 years and has evolved from a consulting org into an advocate, resource, and cheerleader — advancing research, supporting organizations through training and technical assistance, and advocating for sector resources. Find them at cnmsocal.org . [30:00] — Post-Show Banter: Surveys, AI Robots & Matt's Stalker Candidate Matt and producer Ashley debrief on survey fatigue, the candidate who binge-listened seven episodes before his interview, and whether an AI robot that does your laundry is a dream or a nightmare. The episode wraps with a reminder to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

July 14, 2026Episode 641 min

All Things Social Sector Impact with Rob Harter

This week, Matt sits down with Rob Harter — host of the Nonprofit Leadership podcast, coach, consultant, recovering executive director, and self-described "hopeless romantic" who still believes you can change the world. (We checked. He means it.) Rob spent three decades in the social impact sector, most recently leading a humanitarian organization in Park City, Utah — yes, that Park City, the one where people ski and pretend they've never heard of a food pantry. Spoiler: they have one. A really good one. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: • Why the nonprofit world is harder than it looks (and why that's kind of the point) • A community garden that thrived for two years and then... didn't (RIP, solar pump) • Why your work and your worth are not the same thing — and why most of us need a therapist to actually believe that • The three traits of great leaders: humility, listening, and a healthy ego check (two out of three ain't bad, but you really need all three) • Why 75% of podcasts die before their first birthday — and what Rob thinks separates the survivors Whether you're a seasoned executive director, a wide-eyed nonprofit newbie, or just someone who wants to make a difference without burning out completely, this one's for you.

June 22, 2026Episode 541 min

Nonprofit Nation on the Rocks

Two podcast hosts walk into a recording session. One's drinking Eagle Rare bourbon at 3pm in LA. The other is sipping a Pinot Grigio she smuggled back from Italy. Neither has ever co-hosted before. What could go wrong? Turns out — nothing. This week, Matt hands over (half of) the mic to Julia Campbell, host of Nonprofit Nation, and the result is one of the most honest, wide-ranging conversations we've had on this show. They cover the real stuff: why so many nonprofits are treading water, why your donors don't need a polished brand campaign (they need the truth), and why the difference between marketing and fundraising might be the most important thing your organization isn't thinking about. Julia also makes a compelling case that you, your phone, and zero budget is all you need to build a following – just ask her client, a force of nature who single handedly helped end the dog meat trade in China. Oh, and they get into A.I. Because of course they do. Julia's take? Stop being intimidated and start treating it like an intern. Matt's take? ChatGPT designed his tattoo, so he's basically already married to it.

March 10, 2026Episode 49 min

S6:E4 -- "Senseis of Hiring" An introduction to "Around the Office" with Jessie Stegner

We’re trying new things! In this special, mini-episode, host Matt Kamin introduces a new segment we’re calling, “Around the Office”, featuring conversations with the talented team of nonprofit experts at Envision Consulting. This inaugural episode welcomes the smart and funny Associate Director, Jessie Stegner, to discuss the future direction of the podcast and what nonprofit professionals really want to hear. KEY TOPICS: Why this podcast matters: The importance of creating content that helps nonprofit professionals feel seen and less alone in their struggles. Upcoming content plans: Focus on practical, actionable advice for nonprofit professionals. WHAT’S NEXT: First Around the Office episode: How to get a job in the nonprofit sector – featuring insider knowledge on resumes, interviews and what organizations are really looking for. Merger Deep Dive: Matt interviews his business partner and co-founder of Envision Consulting, Allison Fuller about nonprofit mergers. ABOUT ENVISION: Envision Consulting specializes in strategy and executive recruiting exclusively for nonprofits across the country. WHERE TO LISTEN: • All major podcast platforms • YouTube (audio episodes) • Website: www.envisionnonprofit.com GET INVOLVED: Have questions, topic ideas or guest suggestions for the show? Reach out to producer Ashley: ashley@envisionnonprofit.com

November 21, 2025Episode 3

S6:E3 -- Navigating Charitable Giving with CEO of Charity Navigator, Michael Thatcher

In this special Thanksgiving episode of "Nonprofit on the Rocks," host Matt Kamin welcomes back Michael Thatcher, CEO of the nonprofit rating website, Charity Navigator, for an insightful conversation about the state of the nonprofit sector in America. Together, they discuss the challenges facing nonprofits today, including declining public trust, reduced government funding, and the increasing need for community support. Michael shares inspiring stories of generosity, explains how Charity Navigator empowers donors to make informed giving decisions, and highlights the vital role nonprofits play in everyday American life. The episode also covers practical ways listeners can give back—whether through donations, volunteering, or joining a nonprofit board—and ends with a heartfelt reminder of the importance of gratitude and collective action. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in making a positive impact during the holiday season and beyond.

October 24, 2025Episode 227 min

S6:E2 -- "Leadership and Resilience in the Face of Disaster" Revisiting Liz Lin, CEO of the LAFD Foundation

Matt is joined by Liz Lin, CEO of the Los Angeles Fire Department Foundation, to discuss the profound impact of the recent wildfires in Los Angeles. The conversation covers challenges faced by both the community and first responders, the critical role of the Foundation, and practical steps for preparedness and recovery. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: • Firsthand accounts of emergency response and the emotional toll on firefighters • The mission and work of the LAFD Foundation in supporting firefighters with essential equipment, resources and station upgrades • The importance of community support for first responders, including appropriate ways to show appreciation. • Guidance for homeowners and families on disaster preparedness, evacuation planning and recovery resources. • The ongoing needs of the LAFD and how public support makes a difference. RESOURCES: • Los Angeles Fire Department Foundation: supportlafd.org • LAFD official information: lafd.org

October 7, 2025Episode 136 min

S6:E1 -- Recruiting on the Rocks: a Hiring Happy Hour with Matt & Tom O'Connor

What really happens when you put two nonprofit insiders in a room and ask them to solve the sector’s toughest hiring puzzles? In this episode, we sit down with Tom O’Connor, founder of TOC Arts Partners, to decode the mysteries of executive search, organizational strategy, and the human side of leadership. Tune in for a conversation that goes beyond résumés and reference checks. Tom shares why the best searches start with curiosity, how to spot the difference between a good candidate and the right candidate, and why transparency is the ultimate retention tool. Along the way, we explore the subtle art of “discovery,” the realities of uncertainty in the nonprofit world, and the power of building teams that are more than the sum of their job descriptions. Highlights include: • The “knife fight in a phone booth” reality of today’s talent market • How to turn candidate feedback into organizational growth • Why culture fit is more than a buzzword (and how to get it right) • The secret to making hiring less transactional and more transformational • Tom’s take on humility, humor, and the impact sector’s future Whether you’re a nonprofit leader, a job-seeker, or just someone who loves a good story about people making a difference, this episode is your invitation to rethink what it means to build a great team.