Building With Buyers: Startup Marketing and Growth Fueled By Customers

Hosted by Anna Furmanov

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Jul 2026

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A show that explores the role that customers play in helping companies build to their next level of growth. Hosted by Anna Furmanov. Visit furmanovmarketing.com to learn more about the host.

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August 24, 2026Episode 2788 min

278 - The Rise of the SuperPMM

The PMM role is under real pressure right now. VPs of Marketing and CMOs are being asked to do more with less: fewer headcount approvals, leaner teams, tighter budgets. And PMM is often the first place that gets squeezed. Instead of hiring a full-time PMM, companies ask the existing team to absorb the work. Or they bring in a fractional. Or they just... don't do it, and wonder later why GTM feels off. At the same time, the scope of what PMMs are expected to own has exploded. Positioning, messaging, sales enablement, competitive intelligence, content strategy, analyst relations, product launches...and more. And now there's AI on top of it, which hasn't lowered the pressure to produce more, faster. So here's my take: we're at a real inflection point for this role. And in this episode, I explain where I believe we're headed. Here's the LinkedIn post where I talked about it first. Jump in:02:26 - Marketing teams are under pressure to do more with less03:38 - The PMM scope has expanded beyond what it was 5 years ago04:09 - Introducing the "superPMM"04:39 - Using ahaPMM to speed up customer research synthesis05:22 - Building messaging infrastructure with MojoPMM06:07 - Faster creative and landing page production using Claude, Figma, and Vector06:31 - Why AI still needs human judgment07:32 - Execution is democratized, but judgment is not08:17 - Why this topic is getting so much engagement Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website (getting a facelift, stay tuned): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight⁠⁠

July 15, 2026Episode 27719 min

277 - Marketing Leaders Intense Needs Right Now & Where To Go From Here

Finally doing a solo episode! 'Bout time. I talked to 18 CMOs / Mktg VPs for 9 hours about what is super intense for them right now and then I analyzed what I heard and packaged it up for you. Here's the report. Let me know if you have any questions as you review + please share with your team and your marketing leader friends. Jump in: 00:00 - Intro to the research 00:33 - The motivation behind exploring in-depth insights 01:14 - The "Aha Moment" skill for finding truths 01:57 - The scoring system 02:45 - The mess AI leaves behind 03:11 - What's going well 05:09 - The surprising top needs 06:02 - Governance over AI 06:27 - The debate: buy or build 07:07 - Internal marketing is even more important today 07:53 - The challenge of product builds outpacing marketing playbooks 08:13 - Leadership burnout 08:41 - Visibility concerns from AI search and zero click 09:02 - The bottleneck of editing content produced by AI 10:04 - Creating a clear AI governance system to help avoid chaos 11:35 - Product survival in an AI future 12:38 - Example of a company moving towards in-house tool development 13:32 - The importance of differentiation, distinction, positioning, story, brand 14:06 - Winning through relationships, outcomes, and showing up at the right moments (memorable) 15:01 - The case for powerful storytelling and brand 15:38 - Organizational shifts - the org chart is changing 16:11 - The impact of AI on headcount and organizational structures 16:33 - CEOs' perspectives on AI replacing marketing jobs and the potential fallout 17:19 - Leveraging AI to scale teams 20:23 - The overall mood is that two things are true Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. marketing leaders intense needs report: https://marketing-needs-synthesis.vercel.app/ Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ One Insight⁠⁠ ⁠

July 8, 2026Episode 27645 min

276 - Rob Snyder Changed My Mind On How To Sell

Rob Snyder is founder and advisor to b2b startups, Fellow at Harvard Innovation Labs, and Operating Partner at Grix VC. He wrote a book called The Power of PULL which I recommend to folks that are building 0 to 1 (and beyond). We discuss: Quick explanation of PULL; Anything less than "Hell Yes!" is a no, but this is not what we learn in sales; The Rule of One and focus on one person when you’re creating your PULL hypothesis; Are aesthetics even meaningful; Why selling and delivering needs to be a startups primary form of research (wait what about customers); What happens when you had PULL, scaled it, and now growth is stalling; One thing you're working on that you don't fully know how to solve yet. Jump in: 02:14 Understanding the Concept of PULL 08:58 The Importance of Hell Yes Customers 12:38 The Rule of One in Customer Understanding 17:07 Aesthetic Differentiation: Meaningless or Meaningful? 22:49 Customer Conversations versus Sales Conversations 28:44 Navigating Sales Challenges and Growth Stalls 33:05 Understanding Demand vs. Supply in Startups 39:42 Rob’s Current Struggles Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Rob on LinkedIn: ⁠ www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1 Rob's website: ⁠robsnyder.org⁠ Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight⁠⁠

June 17, 2026Episode 27554 min

275 - AI Made Writing Cheap, Listening Just Got More Valuable (Maitri Sheth, Hubspot)

Maitri Sheth is Senior PMM at Hubspot, previously PMM at Gong. We discuss: From B2C to B2B marketing, me too! How has b2c shaped your approach to b2b product marketing; Previously Gong, now Hubspot. What did you do in your first 90 days; One PMM workflow that you’re excited about; Do you feel like you have a good grasp on how AI workflows tap into meaningful business results; Marketing is using creativity to solve business problems. Share how you infuse creativity into your work; Hubspot is 12k+ ppl! How do you get the rest of the org to adopt the same story; How do you approach writing with AI in your role. Jump in: 03:04 The Importance of Listening in PMM 06:06 B2C thinking in B2B 09:06 First 90 Days at HubSpot 12:00 Understanding Customer Needs 14:46 Pattern Recognition & Beyond Patterns 17:59 The Value of Direct Customer Engagement 21:08 Streamlining PMM Workflows with AI 24:03 Navigating Rapid Product Engineering Releases 26:45 Evaluating AI Tools and Their Impact on Business Results 32:56 the problems with "Blank Slate" 35:13 The Role of AI in Productivity 38:43 Creativity in Marketing 41:30 Balancing AI and Human Creativity 51:19 Effective Messaging Across 12,000 people Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, tell me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Maitri on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/maitri5 Hubspot: www.hubspot.com Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight⁠⁠

May 6, 2026Episode 27458 min

274 - Your AI's Outputs Are Only As Good As Its Brain (GTM News Desk)

Natalie Marcotullio & Mark Kilens invited me on their podcast GTM News Desk. We discuss: How do you build messaging that actually sticks across every team that touches it? How do you know when an "insight" is genuinely worth acting on or when it's just a pattern dressed up in fancy words? What does it take to teach AI to think like you, not just write like one version of you? Mojo Founder Eric Holland and I reveal what's really broken about how B2B companies develop and distribute their messaging. We dig into why most customer research is pulled from the most biased data available and how to document your decision-making, not just your knowledge, so AI can actually replicate your judgment. We also provide answers to why chasing every new AI workflow is making most marketers worse, not better. Eric and I challenge the idea that volume of insights equals quality of insights, arguing that a single finding that changes how your whole company goes to market is worth more than a hundred tagged Gong quotes. Jump in: (00:00) We need a higher standard for b2b research (00:35) What CMOs are actually talking about at conferences right now (04:40) How shame and fear became the default AI adoption strategy (08:41) The difference between AI-exhausted and AI-excited teams (12:44) Four Tendencies and what it means for AI adoption (16:31) Why B2B messaging is broken even at well-funded startups (19:14) What separates Mojo from just pointing Claude at your Notion (27:26) What good writing actually feels like and whether AI can get there (32:17) The solar plexus test and how to know when your copy is working (34:05) Why nuance and emotion are the real gap in AI writing (39:27) Why most insight tools are just pattern-matching machines (44:19) How to check if your researcher is actually any good (47:30) The danger of everyone using the same workflows to find the same "insights" (50:01) What B2B marketing gets wrong that B2C figured out long ago (53:21) Go deep on one thing for a quarter (55:22) Why you should only build what you already know in your sleep Connect with Eric: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-holland-not-a-marketer/ Connect with Anna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov/ Mojo: https://mojopmm.com/ Mojo + Moxie: https://mojo-and-moxie.com/ Natalie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-marcotullio/ Mark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markkilens/

April 22, 2026Episode 27314 min

273 - What (Almost) Everyone Gets Wrong About Insights

Hi, we need to talk. This is important. One of the worst things that AI is doing to PMMs right now: making pattern recognition look like insight. I've been surprised how many tools give you dozens of "insights" without anything to back it up other than pattern recognition and quotes. Just because something came up multiple times doesn't make it an insight! Please hear me out, we must do better. 00:00 The disconnect between interesting information and decision insights 02:48 Defining decision insights 05:16 Emotional insights in B2C 07:48 The limits of current research tools 10:07 Introducing Aha PMM 12:55 Why decision insights matter today Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, tell me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Aha PMM ⁠blog article⁠ Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠One Insight⁠⁠

March 25, 2026Episode 27232 min

272 - Should AI Help You Write? with Eric Holland (Mojo PMM)

Eric Holland is a recovering product marketer who quit his job to focus on custom messaging assistants + interactive demos. Founder @Mojo PMM: Burn your boring messaging doc. Mojo is your custom messaging assistant that creates bold, persona-specific messaging for anything you need, that your whole team wants to use. I recently joined Eric at Mojo PMM as their first ever Messaging Whisperer. Co-Founder @DemoDash: 100+ interactive demos shipped for Navattic customers (that’s actually how we met). Also co-hosts the We’re Not Marketers podcast. We talk about messaging & AI, specifically: Can AI help you write copy? Should AI help you write copy? Marketing teams are moving faster with AI, but not necessarily making better decisions. What’s broken? What we're building and why. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Eric on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eric-holland-not-a-marketer Mojo PMM: mojopmm.com Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight⁠

January 30, 2026Episode 2716 min

271 - BONUS: What Would Make AI More Trustworthy?

In the last episode (270), Caitlin Sullivan (AI + Customer Research expert) asked me "what would have to change for you to feel that AI is trustworthy?" It's a really good question and I answer it in this short episode. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight⁠

January 28, 2026Episode 27056 min

270 - How AI Is Transforming Customer Research (Caitlin Sullivan)

I know, I know. Season 5 wrapped up. But I couldn't help myself. Caitlin Sullivan is an expert in AI for Customer Research. She trains growth-ready product & design teams to know their customers faster. Clients include YouTube, Spotify, Ramp, Meta, and Canva. Here’s what we covered: 00:00 Introduction to AI in Customer Research 03:41 The Shift in AI Usage for Customer Research 09:25 Building Systems for Effective Research 12:59 Challenges with AI Insights 17:55 Completeness in Research with AI 21:17 Common Mistakes in Customer Research 25:01 Emotional Nuances in Research & Why they're important 27:08 Understanding AI's Interpretation of Emotions 29:46 The Role of Human Insight in AI Training 32:25 AI as a Co-Pilot and The Importance of Collaboration 35:37 Catching AI Errors 38:30 The Necessity of Human Involvement in Research 39:55 Balancing AI and Human Decision-Making 45:02 Knowing When You Have Enough Data To Stop And Decide 46:44 Favorite Tools for Research and Analysis 50:00 Caitlin asks me her burning question which I will answer in a separate BONUS episode Caitlin on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/caitlindsullivan AI Analysis for PMs course: https://maven.com/caitlin/ai-analysis-pms Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Music by my talented daughter. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight

December 24, 2025Episode 2691 min

269 - Season 5 Wrap Up!

Thanks for being here, for listening, for collaborating, thanks for sharing episodes with others, for sharing stuff with me - when people DM me on LI with their fave episodes - for leaving a review, thank you for all of it. Here's the link to the article " 35 Creative Customer Marketing Plays ". Wishing you a warm + connected holiday season and positive, fresh beginnings for 2026. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Music by my talented daughter. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ furmanovmarketing.com⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ One Insight