Ben and Francis talk about their journeys of trying to share valuable content online (and then eventually trying to make a living off it). We're both chronic overthinkers, and our solution to getting stuff out there is to make now and think later! Join us as we try to navigate the struggles and share our experiences trying to make this whole thing work.
Listen to episodes
23 recent
January 25, 202449 min
#23 - Polishing, procrastination, and promoting the work
(00:00) Intro(01:03) Audience involvement in streams(03:36) Being an entertainer(10:03) Three word prompt YouTube video(14:03) What voice to use in front of the camera(18:22) YouTube on top of everything else(21:46) Collecting and analyzing reference(26:40) Promoting the work(29:02) Business and marketing is creative(34:40) Getting going when you're procrastinating(42:36) Experimenting with free brushes(47:29) Prioritizing(49:22) Wrapping up
Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com. Recorded on the 13th of September 2023
Links
Ben's 3rd video
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
Keepon
December 28, 202343 min
#22 - Building more variety into your content
(00:00) Intro
(00:28) Ben's 2nd YouTube video results
(04:09) Three word prompt challenge for the next vid
(11:00) Having more variety in your channel
(14:14) Summarising the new video idea, and systematising video editing
(18:02) The need to be solving puzzles
(20:46) Rebuilding Keepon
(22:21) Procrastination as a signal and working on what you can't stop thinking about
(25:19) Content on what you're doing anyway
(30:58) What can you do week in, week out
(34:27) Building the habit of saying what you're doing
(35:40) Working together
(37:56) Being an expert in something
(41:09) Relearning the same lessons & wrapping up
Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com. Recorded on the 10th of August 2023
Links
Ben's 2nd video
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
Keepon
October 11, 2023Episode 2141 min
#21 - Grand plans and 20 hours of focused work
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
The Fillthy Plugin
Deep work by Cal Newport
Badass by Kathy Sierra
US Airforce average seat
Adam Savage Youtube
(00:00) - Intro
(00:49) - Ben's grand plans
(11:10) - Francis' grand plans
(20:39) - Evergreen content
(21:46) - Space for creativity
(25:53) - Office "families"
(29:04) - Having slack in the system
(30:28) - Optimising vs delaying optimising
(33:53) - Prioritising your 20 hours
(37:16) - Sharing cause you like your friends
(38:57) - Wrapping up
July 14, 2023Episode 2039 min
#20 - Small bets to navigate the content game
In this one we talk about the concept of small bets. That is breaking down your content, business, or product ideas into smaller pieces so you can learn from them quicker. Think about having a portfolio of many small bets vs having a portfolio of few large bets. Luck works in your favour when you have many bets because of the law of large numbers!
Getting good at content is about experimentation. What works for others many not work for you and it's so dependent on you, your voice, and your audience.
Our first Make Now Think Later product small bet is a photoshop plugin! It's linked below.
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
The FIllthy Plugin
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:00) - Intro
(00:39) - The Fillthy plugin
(02:16) - Describing small bets
(06:20) - The Kelly Criteron
(09:29) - Small bets in content
(14:51) - Breaking out of what's working
(18:17) - Conserving energy
(22:10) - You still need to consume content
(24:59) - Staying curious
(26:57) - Consistently making small bets
(30:11) - Fear of alienating when experimenting
May 13, 202343 min
#19 - 100k YouTube views in 1 week: Behind the scenes
Ben's first YouTube video is out! It's been a week and by all objective measures (that we should probably not be thinking too hard about) it's been a success! 100k views in the first week and the comments have been nothing but supportive.
We talk about what went into making this first video. How it took a lot of rewatching and rerewatching to make it feel snappy, and how a lot of the magic was in the edit and in "killing your darlings". YouTube is a different beast than Instagram. Being so searchable and just with the way the platform is designed, it incentivises more evergreen content — different from Instagram where things feel a bit more fleeting.
The biggest thing that went into it was weeks and months of developing taste by consuming all things YouTube, and all things about making YouTube. Figuring out what you like and don't like. Figuring out what's worked for other people and seeing what parts of those you can take for yourself and you feel will work for you and your context.
Keep it focused on the narrative and the problem. Avoid trying to add all the things that would be nice but are actually not part of the core problem. Edit, edit, edit. Rewatch. Get fresh eyes. Get other's opinions. Edit, edit, edit.
Note: this is actually episode 18, and episode 18 is episode 19.
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
Ben's first YouTube video
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:33) Ben's Youtube Video is released
(04:27) Rewatch, edit, sleep, repeat
(06:27) How to think vs how tos
(09:13) Giving yourself a deadline (or not)
(10:52) YouTube incentivises evergreen content
(13:06) Ideas for a next video?
(15:14) Idea, thumbnail, and transformation
(21:14) Spitballing YouTube ideas for Francis
(31:30) Developing a taste is key
(34:11) Focusing on the problem and avoiding scope creep
(38:10) Combining contract work with streaming
(41:02) Draw it in your style
(42:37) Quick update on Francis' work and wrapping up
April 26, 2023Episode 1851 min
#18 - The content game is a psychology game
Making content is kinda the easy part. Actually posting it and feeling like it's ever good enough is the hard part. In this one we cover how making content sometimes feels more like a battle of managing yourself.
Francis is frustrated with feeling like he doesn't have the time to make the content. When you're working on an app it takes up all of your time, so to actually make the stuff you have to make time for it. But it might just because he takes it a bit too seriously. Posting is a skill you have to develop, and posting should be enjoyable. But the difference between "should" and "is" is big, and crossing that barrier requires some thought — and unfortunately for him, the best way to get better at posting is to post!
Ben's already felt that one and his posting skill has developed to a point where he can do it almost effortlessly, but for him, the challenge is now not getting too trapped up in the numbers. As he's got some success now, sometimes he feels a bit too attached to the numbers and might have a bit of a tendency to read too much into the different "like" numbers from different posts—especially now that "how well" a post does is now linked to his income.
We also get a bit into some of the numbers in Ben's latest youtube video, how much he's made from ads, and how it's encouraged him to really consider YouTube as a content platform worth investing in.
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
Francis' now posted substack post
Ben's first YouTube video
Conan O'Brien and Nick Offerman podcast
having fun by Ava (post about enjoying the thing you're doing)
Revenge bedtime procrastination
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:00) - Intro
(00:58) - Making apps takes up content time
(05:56) - Getting the reps in to start posting anything
(07:41) - ChatGPT reviews Francis's substack post
(12:05) - Never being as good as you think you'll be
(14:02) - Enjoying posting, not enjoying making bad stuff
(17:45) - Posting is a skill itself
(22:34) - The content game is a psychology game
(29:35) - More on posting being a skill
(31:03) - Letting go of the numbers
(38:59) - Making content is more about managing yourself
(41:19) - Numbers for Ben's first YouTube video
(44:57) - You can make a career from YouTube
(51:11) - Wrap up
April 8, 2023Episode 1749 min
#17 - Building the Capacity to be Consistent, and Cohort Courses
Francis talks about trying to build up the capacity to keep on tweeting more as he starts to build a little bit of momentum. Even though he's only posted 1 recently, it's more than he's been posting in a long time—and the real challenge is keeping that momentum up and trying to improve over time.
Ben's been trying some new stuff to engage with his community by trying out a Draw This In Your Style challenge. We talk about how to make tweets or other images stand out in the timeline, and what Ben's been thinking as he gears up to launch his first YouTube video.
We also touch on Ben's thinking as he works on creating a new course. This one's going to be created in a more slow burn style, but he needed to do the initial crunch as he did for his initial tutorial just to prove that the whole thing could work.
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
Francis' tweet
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:00) - Intro
(00:34) - Francis works on posting on Twitter more
(07:35) - Ben experiments with #DrawThisInYourStyle
(14:15) - From Sketch Notes to YouTube Videos
(18:32) - Enhancing Tweets with Visuals
(20:47) - Making Images Eye-Catching
(26:08) - The Psychology of Offering Free Content with Optional Payment
(30:42) - Ben's Path to Creating a YouTube Course
(37:58) - Starting Again with Cohort Courses
(39:15) - Finding Francis' First Monetization Strategy
(43:20) - The Magic of Editing and Targeting Intermediate Audiences
(48:08) - Overcoming the Challenge of Consistently Posting Content
March 22, 2023Episode 1627 min
#16 - Michelle Chan: TikTok success and comics for mental health
Michelle Chan joins us today to discuss how she's found a bit of success on TikTok making short comics and posting them as carousels. TikTok seems to be the most inconsistent of the social platforms. The lows are low, the highs are high and it's kinda hard to predict which one's are which.
She's gone semi-viral with at least one comic, and her most successful one just happens to be the most personal and vulnerable one. Literally a drawing of a slice of her life, in a very clever way. When you're able to capture a feeling so well and resonate with others, you really do resonate though, and some of the comments she's received have really shown that the struggle that she's experienced is real and experienced by others also.
The comic is here!
Michelle's hosting a workshop on "Turning Memories into Meaning Through Comics" on April 22, 2023 in Adelaide at the City Library.
You can find details here!
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
Michelle's workshop on April 22, 2023, "Turning Memories into Meaning Through Comics"
Michelle's "Viral" comic
Michelle's TikTok
Michelle's Instagram
Julie Evans zines
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:00) - Special Guest Introduction
(00:41) - Michelle's TikTok Success
(07:32) - Describing the Blob Comic
(09:35) - Therapy Comic Series Idea
(14:10) - Splitting Accounts for Experimentation
(15:50) - Resistance and Excitement from Ideas
(21:18) - Mental Health through Comic Workshops
(26:47) - Wrapping up
March 14, 2023Episode 1549 min
#15 - Noticing content ideas while you're doing your thing
Once you've found the thing that you're doing, the next step is to find a way to make content from it. But it's not so simple — it's a skill in itself to be able to notice when something is noteworthy enough to make content from, and it's hard enough to do that while you're doing your thing in the first place.
Ben gives some tips as to how he does it. He focuses on noticing the friction more than the content itself, cause when he thinks about the friction then the content comes naturally. Then he'll capture that feeling in his note-taking system (make sure you take the time to write something your future self will actually understand).
We also talk about Ben getting into the YouTube game and how he's getting real close to putting that first video out. The self-doubt and procrastinaty feelings are combing back though! But if you can find a way to push through that and start getting into momentum, then you're most of the way there.
We also go into some deep technical stuff talking about what Francis has been working on, and the content ideas that he's playing with.
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
Robh Rupple
Typefully
Notion
Obsidian
War of art - Steven Pressfield
Ben's YouTube
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:42) - Noticing content ideas while you're doing your thing
(7:53) - Positives of streaming content
(11:03) - How soon to make the content
(19:11) - Getting into YouTube
(26:17) - Feeling the self-doubt again
(31:47) - Building momentum in making content
(37:55) - Going into Francis' technical stuff
(42:53) - Finding harmony in what you're creating
(44:42) - What is an artist?
(46:39) - Wrapping up
March 7, 2023Episode 1453 min
#14 - (Over)analysing Youtube, and how else can we price our stuff?
Streaming is one thing, but making polished videos is another. Ben's starting to get to work on YouTube and he's nearly got his first video out. You'd think after doing this whole content creation thing he'd already have the hang of everything but he's finding all the same doubts are coming back. Imposter syndrome. Am I good enough? Perfectionistic tendencies. Even though he's made good headway in conquering all that for his Instagram, it doesn't mean they're gone forever.
We discuss what he's been analysing when he's been thinking about how to make his first video. How the thumbnail and title are worth thinking about before making the video, how to think about story structure, and how he's analysed other channels to figure out what he wants in his channel.
Francis is also back in the saddle a bit as he's gone back to his app building roots. At the end of the day programming is something that he enjoys and has a "passion" for, and he's going to use that as raw material for getting started in the content game.
We also cover some thoughts on different ways to price your products. Taking some lessons from the developer/programming world — are there things that could work for selling info products and courses?
We hope you enjoy this one, we love hearing your feedback, questions, and suggestions! Contact us on @makenowthinklater or send as an email at hi@makenowthinklater.com.
Links
War of art - Steven Pressfield
Loomis Method
Ben's YouTube
Keepon
Muscle & Strength Training Pyramids
Descript
Mr Beast on Lex Fridman
Adam wathan talking about product
Sketchy van podcast
Ben's instagram
Ben's website
Francis' twitter
Francis' website
(00:46) - Starting YouTube and all the doubts are coming back
(02:23) - Thumbnail and title first for YouTube
(05:43) - Ben's first video: drawing the head
(12:55) - Diversifying the YouTube audience
(17:25) - Francis is making apps again
(24:06) - Not just doing the thing, but making content from it
(28:14) - Tools should focus on the developer/creator experience
(30:45) - Taking a break from long projects
(33:25) - Pricing that grows as your customer grows
(39:34) - A licensing model for bigger customers
(44:37) - A premium on physical things?
(49:56) - Wrapping up
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