Learn, Make, Learn

Hosted by Ernest Kim & Joachim Groeger

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Jan 2026

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Learn, Make, Learn is two product geeks sharing qualitative & quantitative perspectives to help you make, better. Hosted by Ernest Kim and Joachim Groeger.

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32 recent

January 7, 2026Episode 321 hr 0 min

Go “Pro” in Every Product Category or Just “Good Enough”?

A question from a previous guest sparks this episode: Do we go “pro” in every product category or do we eschew the spec arms race & embrace “good enough”? We interrogate our own behaviors & share implications for people in the business of making products.INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 02:51Starbucks Follow-Up with Zoran SvetlicicGenerative AI x Product with Anmol AnubhaiWhat McDonald’s is REALLY Like in ItalyHow to Try Int’l McDonald’s Menu Items in the USJOACHIM’S PROFILE PREFS FOR CLAUDE – 07:40J’s TAKE: A PORTFOLIO APPROACH – 16:40Testing the Same Products from 1975 and 2025SHEIN's plan to take over FASHIONE’s TAKE: SPECIALISTS OVER GENERALISTS – 27:03Do Pharmacists Buy Bayer? Informed Shoppers and the Brand PremiumWhy Doesn't Everybody Buy Cheap, Generic Headache Medicine?The Secrets of ShoppingThe Rise of Indie Running BrandsSPECIALIZATION vs HYPERGROWTH – 34:43How I Built This: Tim LeathermanPelican’s Indestructible CasesThe Furniture Systems Of USM HallerLESSONS FOR PRODUCT PEOPLE – 42:12Military can’t repair its own equipmentBad Dye JobRECOMMENDATIONS – 48:33The Enshittifinancial CrisisMatthew Wilcock: 058 Motorway Cycle XIFlowingData: Best Data Visualizations of 2025NotionPhantom ThreadDior and I on Apple TV & YouTubeSentimental ValueCLOSING – 01:00:02****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

November 13, 2025Episode 311 hr 14 min

Putting Your Weird to Work with the Co-Directors of The Brand Studios Program at CU Boulder

We get the inside scoop on The Brand Studios master’s program at CU Boulder from its co-directors, Parisa Tashakori & Jeff Gillette. Unique in its accelerated 12-month span & remit across both experience design and creative advertising, the program welcomes those with a passion to “put your weird to work.” Is it right for you?INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 00:55Why is Design So Boring? with Nate GrubbsLAP CoffeeThe LAP coffee Berlin backlash: when innovation meets resistanceErnest to present at Creative Mornings on Dec. 12thMEET PARISA TASHAKORI & JEFF GILLETTE – 10:07Parisa’s faculty profileJeff’s faculty profileON ACADEMIA VS AGENCY LIFE – 13:52Higher ed must do more to support teachingTHE BRAND STUDIOS: THE WHAT & THE WHY – 19:11The Brand Studios at CU BoulderAdAge: New portfolio school aims to fill a widening gap in training junior ad professionals in the wake of AI (paywall)WHO IS THE PROGRAM FOR? – 36:34The StudentsON STAYING SMALL & HUMAN – 41:09GEN AI & BETTING ON CREATIVITY – 49:22John Maeda on the Design Better podcastCory Doctorow: Reverse centaurs are the answer to the AI paradoxWEIRDOS WELCOME & HOW TO APPLY – 56:43Ready to apply?RECOMMENDATIONS – 01:01:55Parisa: The Collaborative HabitJeff: The Art of Whittling & Atomic HabitsJoachim: BOSS Katana-AIR EX & Swag Lee’s Habibi LoopsErnest: Hamnet (the novel), Lavinia & A Larger Reality at OxCLOSING – 01:13:26****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

November 3, 2025Episode 301 hr 18 min

Starbucks Follow-Up with Zoran Svetlicic

We're joined by Zoran Svetlicic for this fast follow-up to our previous episode on Starbucks’ struggles. A strategist & builder with deep expertise in brand and food & beverage, Zoran pulls no punches in his diagnosis of Starbucks’ ills. And, along the way, schools us on positioning, brand architecture & natural wine.INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 00:39Starbucks’ Struggles and Lessons for Product PeopleMEET ZORAN + CONTEXT SETTING – 04:09Zoran Svetlicic on LinkedInThird-Wave CoffeeNYT Books review of Seeing Like a StateDIAGNOSING STARBUCKS’ STRUGGLES – 11:56 Mark Ritson: Starbucks needs to cut the crap from its brand positioningBrand ArchitectureNestlé Takes Majority Stake in Blue Bottle (paywall)STARBUCKS RESERVE STRATEGY – 25:17What is the Starbucks Reserve brand — and where is it going?Traditional vs. Occasion-Based SegmentationHETEROGENEITY AT SCALE: McDONALD’S – 32:45McD’s passes Starbucks as world’s most valuable restaurant brandMcD’s Just Dropped a Happy Meal Collab Straight Out of the ’90sWhy The French Love American Fast FoodFor Some Travelers, McD’s Is a Destination (paywall)GLOBAL + LOCAL: COCA-COLA – 42:12Coca-Cola Visual ID: Before & AfterWe leverage design to create simplicity: David ButlerShare a Coke campaign learningsLESSONS FROM NATURAL WINE – 55:31RECOMMENDATIONS – 01:05:16RaisinPiquentum Wines & LabelUNSTUCK newsletterM5Stack Core2Yowana & SupwellCLOSING – 01:17:36****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

October 13, 2025Episode 291 hr 12 min

Starbucks’ Struggles & Lessons for Product People

What can product people learn from Starbucks’ recent struggles, and how are these lessons linked to a venerable British book retailer, an upstart French running brand, and a barmy Japanese watchmaker?INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 02:47Starbucks closing storesSPVs, Credit, and AI DatacentersThis is How the AI Bubble Will PopNeue Klasse – 60 Years of the BMW 1500World Premiere of the new BMW iX3BMW Hofmeister Knick—Behind the LinesSTARBUCKS’ STRUGGLES – 14:08No Logo at 20Globalization and Its DiscontentsThe Walmart Effect100 Cups of Coffee in a City on FireANTI-HOMOGENEITY FTW – 21:08Why high street coffee chains may have had their dayWhy Are Independent Coffee Shops Succeeding?Starbucks' Digital DilemmaLESSONS FOR PRODUCT PEOPLE – 36:00Seeing Like a StateMetis mattersLessons learnt from Waterstones’ turnaroundPersonality Disorders and CultureSATISFYHow Satisfy Got the Cool Kids Into RunningErnest’s G-SHOCK FrogmanIbe Kikuo and the Development of the G-ShockG-SHOCK GA-V01RECOMMENDATIONS – 57:19Alien: EarthAlien: Earth soundtrackThe Ballad of Wallis IslandCharlie Brooker’s ScreenwipeCLOSING – 01:11:08****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

July 18, 2025Episode 2850 min

Toolbox: Raymond Loewy & the MAYA Principle

Ernest & Joachim go deep on Raymond Loewy’s MAYA Principle: what it is & why it matters, with real world examples of MAYA in action, and what can happen when product teams fail to take the principle to heart.FOLLOW-UPS – 01:00Toolbox: How “Jobs To Be Done” Can Help You Make, BetterFortis MarinemasterA BRIEF INTRO TO RAYMOND LOEWY – 06:04MoMA on Raymond Loewy60 Minutes: Raymond Loewy, Father of Industrial DesignLOEWY’S MAYA PRINCIPLE – 09:07The MAYA Principle in DesignThe iPhone only exists because Steve Jobs ‘hated this guy at Microsoft’Phil Knight: Shoe DogHow One Designer Saved Tesla From Bankruptcy TWICEIS MAYA INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE? – 19:36Apple and the MAYA PrincipleRemembering Apple’s Newton, 30 years onMUST BE ROOTED IN EMPATHY & COMPASSION – 24:44Raymond Loewy and the Skylab WindowAPPLICATIONS BEYOND PRODUCT – 28:20The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (via Wayback Machine)BMW Is a Surprise Winner in Electric Vehicles (paywall)Goodbye to the BMW i3—an Icon of the 21st Century (paywall)The Newton Messagepad was Well Ahead of its TimeGeneral Magic documentaryIntellectual Distance, Novelty, and Resource Allocation in ScienceRECOMMENDATIONS – 42:48Patrick McGee: Apple in ChinaHidden Forces podcast: Patrick McGeeEBL rechargeable AA batteries (link to Wirecutter review)CLOSING – 49:34****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

June 23, 2025Episode 271 hr 23 min

Off-the-Cuff Smörgåsbord

E & J return from a spring hiatus to discuss a range of topics, from WWDC 2025 to the Era of the Business Idiot, and more.WATCHES & WONDERS – 04:09Don DeLillo: CosmopolisIWC Presents A Plethora Of New Ingenieur WatchesHow The Pursuit Of Status Shapes Our AestheticsThe Nomos Club Sport Neomatik WorldtimerNOMOS Lounge, New York CityTAG Heuer Formula 1 - They got it wrong!SLATE AUTO – 22:52Slate Auto Reveal EventCustomer service satisfaction of EV owners lower than ICE vehiclesKia, Build This EV Overland Camper Van!Top Gear: The Indestructible Toyota Hilux (full episode)WWDC 2025 – 33:49From Skeuomorphic to Liquid GlassHow the Graphical User Interface was InventedWWDC 1997: Steve Jobs Q&A (tense exchange at 50:25)Bill Gates: “Internet Tidal Wave”Apple study challenges whether AI models truly “reason”DISCORD & COMPLEXITY – 54:29How Discord Indexes Trillions of MessagesInk & SwitchQuietRECS – 01:03:28The Era Of The Business IdiotBetter Offline podcast‘Andor’ Season 2UConnPopCastRebecca Solnit: Men Explain Things to MeWhat Makes Art ‘Left Wing’?The RehearsalCLOSING – 01:22:00****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

March 20, 2025Episode 2643 min

Off-the-Cuff: AI Nonsense & More!

We return from hibernation to talk AI nonsense, critique the review industrial complex, promote a return to RSS, and share a raft of recommendations!JOACHIM ON AI NONSENSE – 01:52Previous Discussion of Humane AI (starts at 18:34)Humane Set to Brick $700 ‘AI Pins’I outsourced my memory to an AI pin and all I got was fanfictionBen Thompson: DeepSeek FAQPrevious Discussion on LLMs & Constraints (starts at 02:33)“Low-Resource” Text ClassificationERNEST ON THE REVIEW INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX – 09:41Motor Trend: 2021 MINI Cooper SEAmerica’s Commute to Work Is Getting Longer (paywall)CNET: 2022 Mini Cooper SEJames Hoffmann’s reviewsSigma BF Review: Beautiful FoolishnessBy contrast ... I took 1,000 photos with the Sigma BFGxAce YouTube channelChris Harris on the Mercedes-AMG A45 SHow Ferrari SpinsIMPLICATIONS FOR PRODUCT CREATORS? – 26:07Americans Are Obsessed With the Wrong TrucksTELO MT1Remembering Nike’s Sandy BodeckerJOACHIM ON RSS & MORE – 31:37InoreaderCatherine Shannon: Your phone is why you don’t feel sexyTracy Durnell: In praise of the hundred page ideaIn Praise of ShadowsKenya Hara: WhiteTimothy Snyder: On TyrannyHarry G. Frankfurt: On BullshitPerfect DaysPerfect Day (Komorebi Version)SHOULD WE START A DISCORD? – 41:22CLOSING – 42:02****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

December 31, 2024Episode 251 hr 8 min

Caveat Emptor?

Ernest’s experience with a boundary-breaking headphone sparks a discussion on caveat emptor, or buyer beware, and just how much risk we, as product creators, should expect buyers to bear.FOLLOW-UPS – 01:15MKBHD, Panels & PricingWTF Happened in 2024?!I Love You, Man: The Male Friendship RecessionWhy Are Boys and Men in Trouble?CAVEAT EMPTOR? – 06:36Caveat emptorAn ode to open-back headphones—and why I’d never go (closed-)backWhat’s the difference between dynamic and planar magnetic drivers?Audio46 HeadphonesSennheiser HD800S: Revisiting a LegendFocal Clear MGHifiman Arya Stealth & OrganicHifiman Arya Unveiled Review—The Next Best?The most expensive headphone in the world is terrifying!Are Hifiman Unveiled Headphones Safe?With Just 8 Words, Steve Jobs Explained the Best Decision He Ever MadeMan Tests Tesla Cybertruck Trunk Sensor With His FingerThe Hidden Autopilot Data That Reveals Why Teslas CrashIIHS tested Tesla Autopilot safeguards: Here’s what they foundArrival or departure? The rise and fall of Britain’s EV unicornInterview with Hifiman CEO Dr. Fang Bian‘The Beta Test’ Director Jim Cummings Wants to Liberate Indie FilmmakingRECOMMENDATIONS – 51:07Derek Guy: Die Workwear!J’s year-end rec: Outlier Strongworks PantsE’s year-end rec: OrSlow French Work Pants & Yamatomichi 5-Pocket PantsCLOSING – 01:07:44****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

November 15, 2024Episode 2457 min

MKBHD, Panels & Pricing

A conversation triggered by MKBHD’s Panels app gets really interesting when we dig into pricing & lessons for people in the business of making products.FOLLOW-UPS – 02:23Are Pop Lyrics Getting More Repetitive?How gamification took over the worldCan't Play, Won't PlayAn Interview with Meta CTO Andrew BosworthMeta Connect Keynote 2024Meta’s big teaseMKBHD, PANELS & PRICING – 07:30Marques BrownleeMKBHD’s first reviewMarques Brownlee says ‘I hear you’ after fans criticize his new wallpaper appYouTubers are not your friendsWhy Criticism Still MattersLESSON FOR PRODUCT CREATORS – 20:02How Nike finally hacked skateboardingON PRICING – 23:42Friedrich HayekOskar R. LangeLange modelKanopyTaylor Swift–Ticketmaster controversyThe Changing Face Of The Secondary Market: Rolex CPO and moreRECOMMENDATIONS – 43:18MUBIThe Substance on MUBIThe Fall on MUBIGoeff McFetridge: Drawing a Life on MUBIThatcher had “phenomenal” impact on Britain’s cultural landscapeBedrock SandalsCreepers SocksHow Did Hokas Become So Popular? (paywall)CLOSING – 56:29****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

October 18, 2024Episode 2357 min

Why is Design So Boring? with Nate Grubbs

We dive into our titular question with Nate Grubbs, who, unlike us, is a professional designer with strong views borne of decades of experience across UX, visual & product design.MEET NATE – 01:18THE AGE OF AVERAGE – 04:19Alex Murrell: The age of averageThe tyranny of the algorithm: why every coffee shop looks the sameHow Khruangbin’s Sound Became the New Mood Music (paywall)SOUL, FLASH & OLD MAN VIBES – 06:36A Farewell to Adobe Flash—and the Messy, Glorious WebDonnie Darko websiteFélix Lapointe: Remembering Kai Power ToolsArtist at Play: An e-mail exchange with Kai KrauseA PERVASIVE FEAR OF FAILURE – 17:49Please, Please Don’t A/B Test ThatStudy finds 268% higher failure rates for Agile software projectsSIGNS OF HOPE & BREAKING THROUGH – 23:27Massimo Giunco: Nike, An Epic Saga of Value DestructionThe Father of Grunge Typography Calls Out Lazy DesignPaula Scher: Great design is serious (not solemn)KintsugiCONSTRAINTS AS A CATALYST – 34:08Why Constraints Are Good for InnovationDaft SocialStart-Ups Surge in the Great ResetGnuhrPhysical music sales on course for first increase in 20 yearsRECOMMENDATIONS – 45:45Nate: YotoErnest: A Different Man; related: The rise and rise of A24, a champion of storytelling on screen (paywall)Joachim: I Saw the TV Glow; What You Are Looking for is in the LibraryCLOSING – 56:57NateGrubbs.com****Rant, rave or otherwise via email at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.CREDITSTheme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.comDrum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com