Leaning In

Hosted by Trademark Property

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Oct 2026

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Leaning In is a podcast exploring the future of mixed-use real estate. Trademark Property Company CEO Terry Montesi, and other executives, speak with experts from various backgrounds and areas to discuss mixed-use, multifamily, and brick-and-mortar retail, and what it looks like to lean into it while others are leaning out. For more information about Trademark, visit www.trademarkproperty.com

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October 21, 2026Episode 61 hr 1 min

Why Dallas Is Just Getting Started with Chris Kleinert

Terry Montesi and Chris Kleinert explore the complexities of large-scale real estate development in one of the country's fastest-growing markets. Kleinert, CEO of Hunt Realty Investments, shares how his background in banking workouts and private equity prepared him to lead major projects with permanent family capital. The conversation moves through the evolution of downtown Dallas, the strategic choices behind mixed-use development, and what it means to plan projects with a 20-year horizon. They discuss: - How Hunt acquired the 2,500-acre Fields development in Frisco and landed the PGA of America headquarters - Why Goldman Sachs chose the North End site in Dallas and what it signals about corporate migration - The challenge of activating downtown Dallas beyond office buildings and addressing vagrancy alongside homelessness - Why energy infrastructure and power availability will determine whether DFW can sustain its growth trajectory - How Ray Hunt's philosophy of fewer, deeper relationships shaped the company's approach to partnerships This episode offers practical insight for anyone working in urban development, real estate investment, or regional economic strategy. Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:00:56) - Welcoming Chris Kleinert to the show (00:02:06) - Chris's path from General Mills to Hunt (00:06:54) - Key lessons learned from Ray Hunt (00:08:36) - More dreams than memories (00:10:24) - Evolving Hunt into a world-class institution (00:11:34) - Reunion Tower plans and challenges (00:16:42) - The Fields acquisition story (00:24:30) - Fields West development details (00:27:11) - Long-term underwriting at the Fields (00:29:08) - North End and the Goldman Sachs campus (00:38:36) - The state of downtown Dallas (00:44:18) - Hunt's bullish view on DFW (00:47:45) - Big trends for the next decade (00:50:28) - Giving back and Ashley's Ruthie's Cafe (00:55:48) - Ray's question turned on TerryT

September 17, 2026Episode 555 min

Where Retail Meets Logistics

Terry Montesi and Kevin Kessinger sit down with Luke Petherbridge, CEO of Blackstone's Link Logistics, on Leaning In to explore how e-commerce, industrial real estate, and physical retail have evolved from competitors into complementary partners. Luke brings a rare perspective; he's led major platforms across retail, multifamily, and industrial, including roles at DDR and Blackstone's ShopCor and LiveCor. The conversation unpacks how omni-channel models have reshaped distribution networks, why speed has become the defining customer promise, and what it takes to operate at scale in today's market. They discuss: - Why Amazon's logistics footprint expanded from 100 million to 700 million square feet in a decade - How industrial and retail real estate now serve overlapping functions in the supply chain - What Blackstone's thematic investing approach reveals about macro trends and real estate fundamentals - Why seller financing and public incentives have become essential to new retail development - How AI is being deployed in industrial operations beyond automation and chatbots This episode offers a grounded look at the structural shifts connecting logistics, retail, and consumer behavior for investors and operators navigating a post-pandemic economy. Timecodes: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:02:40) - Luke's journey from Australia to Link Logistics (00:05:46) - Working across retail, multifamily, and industrial (00:07:42) - Blackstone's competitive advantages (00:09:25) - Thematic investing and real estate fundamentals (00:10:55) - Inside the industrial and logistics business (00:13:58) - Multifamily and office market conditions (00:17:06) - E-commerce shifting real estate demand from retail to industrial (00:19:40) - Amazon's network expansion and same-day delivery (00:21:51) - Last-mile delivery economics and profitability (00:26:45) - Omni-channel retail as the winning model (00:29:30) - Will industrial and retail rents converge? (00:32:38) - Industrial success at retail's expense (00:34:58) - Physical stores as necessary infrastructure (00:36:38) - AI applications in logistics operations (00:40:32) - Leadership philosophy and hiring great people (00:42:07) - Leading at scale with 1,100 employees (00:44:27) - Key leadership lessons across asset classes (00:46:56) - Investing in people and platform (00:49:18) - Major trends impacting real estate (00:50:24) - The return of retail development YouTube: 00:00 - Intro 02:40 - Luke's journey from Australia to Link Logistics 05:46 - Working across retail, multifamily, and industrial 07:42 - Blackstone's competitive advantages 09:25 - Thematic investing and real estate fundamentals 10:55 - Inside the industrial and logistics business 13:58 - Multifamily and office market conditions 17:06 - E-commerce shifting real estate demand from retail to industrial 19:40 - Amazon's network expansion and same-day delivery 21:51 - Last-mile delivery economics and profitability 26:45 - Omni-channel retail as the winning model 29:30 - Will industrial and retail rents converge? 32:38 - Industrial success at retail's expense 34:58 - Physical stores as necessary infrastructure 36:38 - AI applications in logistics operations 40:32 - Leadership philosophy and hiring great people 42:07 - Leading at scale with 1,100 employees 44:27 - Key leadership lessons across asset classes 46:56 - Investing in people and platform 49:18 - Major trends impacting real estate 50:24 - The return of retail development

July 14, 2026Episode 443 min

Dana Telsey on Why Retail is Winning

Terry Montesi and Dana Telsey explore the evolving retail landscape through the dual lens of consumer behavior and real estate demand. Telsey, chief research officer and founder of Telsey Advisory Group, shares insights from three decades analyzing retail brands, department stores, specialty concepts, and emerging consumer trends. The conversation touches on resilience in consumer spending, the K-shaped economy, and how physical retail has rebounded post-COVID as a space for social interaction and experience-driven commerce. They discuss: Why agentic AI will reshape how retailers anticipate consumer needs and curate product offerings How fulfillment and last-mile distribution are changing the economics of physical stores Which retail categories are expanding aggressively, from off-price and beauty to experiential and grocery concepts The return of capital to retail real estate and what it signals about investor confidence in the sector Why the distinction between outlet, lifestyle, and power centers is fading in favor of hybrid formats Links: Telsey Advisory Group - https://www.telseygroup.com/ Dana on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/dana-telsey Terry on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/terry-montesi Trademark Property - https://trademarkproperty.com/ Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:01:23) - Dana's path to founding Telsey Advisory Group (00:06:34) - How retail analysis has changed over time (00:09:29) - Macroeconomic pressures on the consumer (00:12:55) - Where consumers are spending and pulling back (00:15:12) - The K-shaped consumer economy (00:16:29) - Which retail categories are winning (00:20:02) - Experiential retail and creating memories (00:21:57) - COVID's lasting impact on physical retail (00:24:11) - Retail capital markets coming back (00:26:16) - Low sales per foot but high strategic value (00:28:06) - Retailers getting it right and wrong (00:32:24) - The future of malls and enclosed centers (00:35:01) - The grocery anchor phenomenon (00:37:00) - How retailers choose real estate locations (00:39:04) - Big retail trends and agentic AI (00:41:23) - Advice for retail real estate investors (00:42:31) - Closing

May 11, 2026Episode 354 min

Betting on Physical Retail with Sandeep Mathrani

In this episode, Terry Montesi sits down with Sandeep Mathrani to unpack a career defined by bold bets, operational discipline, and contrarian thinking in retail real estate. Sandeep shares how he got his start with a single apartment purchase and quickly evolved into a capital markets leader, eventually leading major turnarounds across the industry. The conversation explores his philosophy on investing in physical retail during periods of skepticism, including navigating bankruptcy, the rise of e-commerce, and the evolution of malls into experiential destinations. Sandeep also reflects on his time leading WeWork, drawing parallels between retail and flexible office, and offers a clear framework for evaluating assets, trends, and long-term opportunities. They discuss: How Sandeep’s early real estate wins shaped his long-term investment mindset Why investing heavily in top-tier malls during downturns created outsized returns The real impact of e-commerce on brick and mortar and why omnichannel has strengthened physical retail Lessons from turning around WeWork and applying the same operational playbook across industries What separates winning retail assets from those that decline over time Links: Atlas Hills RE - https://www.atlashillre.com/ Sandeep on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeep-mathrani/ Terry on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-montesi/ Trademark Property - https://trademarkproperty.com/ Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:00:58) - Early real estate hustle (00:06:32) - Surviving the retail apocalypse (00:11:10) - Omnichannel reality checks (00:16:48) - Boardroom retail lessons (00:23:11) - Mixed use and sears boxes (00:27:52) - Retail outlooks (00:30:27) - Entertainment risk reality (00:36:17) - Criteria for saving malls (00:37:18) - Annapolis turnaround play (00:39:36) - Oakbrook renovation bet (00:43:03) - Cutting costs fast (00:45:36) - Flex work (00:47:19) - Mall liquidity returns (00:51:31) - Advice for newcomers

April 20, 2026Episode 21 hr 19 min

Reading the Market with JLL's Mark Gibson

In this episode of Leaning In, Terry Montesi sits down with Mark Gibson to break down the current state of real estate capital markets and what’s actually happening beneath the headlines. Mark shares a data-driven perspective on investor behavior, capital flows, and why many widely discussed risks may be overstated. The conversation covers everything from the return of core capital and shifting investment strategies to the evolving outlook across office, retail, and multifamily sectors. Throughout, Mark emphasizes the importance of focusing on fundamentals, playing through market noise, and structuring investments to withstand uncertainty. They discuss: Why institutional investors are shifting back toward core assets and what that means for pricing and deal flow How capital availability remains strong, with debt markets wide open and becoming a substitute for asset sales The resurgence of retail as a top-performing sector and what’s driving tenant expansion and landlord leverage The multifamily supply cycle, current oversupply dynamics, and why long-term fundamentals still point to strong demand How office is bifurcating, with top-tier assets thriving while lower-quality inventory faces an uncertain future The growing importance of operational excellence and sponsor quality in attracting institutional capital Links: Trademark Property Terry on LinkedIn Mark on LinkedIn JLL Capital Markets North America Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:01:41) - Mark’s career journey (00:04:21) - Markets playing through noise (00:07:32) - Core capital returns (00:15:39) - Managing systemic risk (00:23:35) - DFW and Sunbelt outlook (00:28:44) - Capitulation and deal flow (00:31:35) - Retail leads the pack (00:34:45) - Multifamily supply reset (00:38:12) - Acquisition versus development (00:39:44) - Loan maturities reality check (00:40:38) - Debt markets (00:46:28) - Mall debt returns (00:47:48) - Retail capital surge (00:50:31) - Retail development subsidies (00:53:02) - Ignore headlines, use data (00:55:48) - Multifamily supply cycle (01:00:42) - Institutional multifamily math (01:02:59) - Office capital returns (01:06:34) - Office culture and AI (01:10:27) - Development risk shifts (01:15:05) - Operational excellence wins (01:16:32) - Career advice and wrap

March 5, 2026Episode 139 min

Decoding Retail Market Trends with JLL’s Monica Mason

Terry Montesi sits down with Monica Mason to explore what is really driving the resurgence of retail real estate investment in the United States. Drawing on her work analyzing capital markets data and investor behavior, Monica explains why retail fundamentals have strengthened in recent years and why institutional investors are increasingly allocating capital to the sector. The conversation unpacks the supply constraints created by post pandemic construction costs, the demographic trends shaping retail demand, and how investors are adapting to a higher interest rate environment. Along the way, Monica shares the data signals that matter most for investors evaluating where retail opportunities are emerging. They discuss: • Why retail investment has grown from 7% of total real estate investment in 2021 to 14% today • How pandemic era construction slowdowns and rising costs created a supply shortage that supports rent growth • Why institutional investors increased retail allocations and what is driving the surge in capital flows • The demographic shifts fueling retail investment across the Southeast and Southwest, including Texas and Arizona • Misconceptions around grocery anchored centers and where investors are beginning to look beyond them Links: Terry on LinkedIn Monica on LinkedIn Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:00:23) - Meet Monica at JLL (00:01:47) - Why retail rents are rising (00:09:04) - Misconceptions and headlines (00:11:02) - Demographics and wealth split (00:14:21) - Rate volatility and lending (00:19:27) - How JLL uses data models (00:24:37) - Key 2025 data points (00:26:56) - Grocery anchors and beyond (00:32:06) - Cap rates and where capital goes (00:36:10) - Development outlook (00:38:07) - Why retail wins long term

November 20, 2025Episode 81 hr 2 min

From Dallas to Washington: Ray Washburne on Real Estate, Leadership, and Legacy

Ray Washburne joins host Terry Montesi on Leaning In for an in depth conversation about real estate, leadership, and the evolving landscape of Dallas. Ray reflects on his early entrepreneurial years, the lessons that shaped his investment approach, and the principles that guide his work across sectors from hospitality to mixed use development. He and Terry dive into the transformation of Highland Park Village, the challenges and opportunities within downtown Dallas, and the broader economic signals influencing commercial real estate today. They discuss: Ray’s early path into real estate and the mindset shaped by growing up in Dallas The strategy behind acquiring and revitalizing Highland Park Village Why reputation and long term relationships drive success in Dallas and Washington The future of downtown Dallas and major projects that could reshape the city How consumer behavior, construction costs, and AI are influencing the real estate cycle Challenges in office, adaptive reuse, and where new opportunities may emerge Links: Gillon Property Group Trademark Property Terry on LinkedIn Audio Topics (00:00:00) - Intro (00:01:25) - Ray’s career and background (00:04:38) - Leadership philosophy (00:09:23) - Luxury retail and Highland Park Village (00:20:48) - Challenges and future of Dallas real estate (00:23:44) - Downtown Dallas development and vision (00:32:12) - Incentivizing real estate investment (00:36:35) - Shifts in domestic manufacturing and tariffs (00:38:17) - Challenges in real estate development (00:41:19) - Office space and adaptive reuse strategies (00:44:34) - Institutional real estate investment trends (00:49:43) - Creating unique experiences in real estate (00:52:55) - Lessons from public sector experience (00:58:30) - Advice for young real estate professionals

October 13, 2025Episode 747 min

Navigating Retail Real Estate: Insights from Kimco CEO Conor Flynn

In this episode of Leaning In, host Terry Montesi sits down with Conor Flynn, CEO of Kimco Realty, for an in-depth discussion about the evolution of retail real estate, the future of mixed-use development, and the trends shaping consumer behavior. Conor shares lessons from his two decades at Kimco, detailing the company’s strategic shift toward grocery-anchored shopping centers, its multifamily expansion efforts, and the advantages of scale in today’s REIT landscape. The conversation also explores how technology, capital markets, and macroeconomic uncertainty are influencing decisions across the retail and development sectors. They discuss: • Lessons learned from a career built within Kimco Realty • How grocery-anchored centers became the foundation of Kimco’s portfolio • The company’s multifamily strategy and use of joint venture partnerships • Navigating today’s capital markets and managing risk amid uncertainty • Emerging retail trends, from off-price and grocery to health and wellness • How technology and consumer behavior will shape the next generation of shopping centers Links: Trademark Property Terry on LinkedIn Kimco Realty Conor on LinkedIn Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:01:13) - Connor Flynn's journey at Kimco (00:04:09) - Lessons learned in real estate (00:07:44) - Kimco's strategic position and mission (00:15:03) - Multifamily expansion and redevelopment (00:18:07) - Navigating economic uncertainty (00:26:10) - Building for a 300 spread (00:26:30) - Navigating uncertainty in development (00:27:50) - Institutional partnerships and success stories (00:29:29) - Retailer categories and trends (00:30:51) - Grocery anchors and leasing strategies (00:39:04) - National vs. local tenants (00:40:42) - Future of retail real estate (00:45:13) - Advice for young professionals (00:46:57) - Conclusion and final thoughts

July 17, 2025Episode 61 hr 2 min

AI's Influence: Transforming Human Behavior and Retail Dynamics

In this forward-looking episode of Leaning In, Terry Montesi is joined by Bart Higgins and Katie Hillier of Future Perfect X, to explore how artificial intelligence is transforming the future of human behavior, retail, and placemaking. Drawing on their deep backgrounds in design, anthropology, and innovation, Bart and Katie unpack how AI will shift the foundational drivers of consumer experience and commercial real estate. From programmable biology and co-intelligent AI agents to personalized retail journeys and ambient environments, they illustrate what it means to future-proof a business in the age of the "limitless self." This conversation challenges leaders to rethink how places are designed and how brands will maintain emotional relevance in an AI-mediated world. They discuss: Why understanding the future human is more important than understanding the technology itself How AI will alter core human traits like identity, emotion, and decision-making Why the commercial construct of retail must evolve beyond the needs-based and self-growth economies What the rise of avatars and AI companions means for brand loyalty and physical retail How retail developers can position themselves as tastemakers in a world of infinite content This episode is a must-listen for anyone shaping the future of consumer spaces, brands, or experiences. Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:00:42) - Introducing Bart and Katie (00:04:00) - How does one go about being an innovation consultant? (00:12:34) - How brands and businesses in CRE can future-proof themselves (00:16:19) - How will AI disrupt retail as a business model? (00:23:05) - How is the retail experience going to change as we move forward? (00:27:59) - What are some of the needs consumers are expecting retailers to fill? (00:42:05) - How do you see AI impacting how retail places need to evolve? (00:48:03) - What does the future of retail look like outside of AI? (00:50:36) - Who’s doing a great job of future-proofing themselves? (00:53:53) - Closing questions

June 25, 2025Episode 558 min

The Art of Retail Reinvention: A Conversation with RH’s Steve Rouman

In this episode of Leaning In , Trademark CEO Terry Montesi sits down with Steve Rouman , SVP of Real Estate at RH, to talk about his journey from the landlord side of the business to leading real estate strategy for one of retail’s most design-driven brands. They dive into RH’s transformation into a luxury lifestyle brand, the future of retail site selection, post-COVID consumer behavior, and how physical retail and e-commerce can work together. Steve also shares advice for industry newcomers and why human connection still sits at the heart of retail. 🎧 Listen in for a forward-looking take on retail, design, and the evolving role of place. Topics: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:01:12) - Steve’s background and career (00:08:05) - RH's transformation and real estate strategy (00:13:11) - Site selection and unique real estate moves (00:18:02) - Surprises and lessons in retail site selection (00:26:12) - Future growth and expansion plans (00:30:07) - New store concepts and expansions (00:32:40) - AI and the future of retail (00:35:29) - E-commerce and physical retail synergy (00:39:09) - Retailers excelling in brick and mortar (00:44:07) - Future of retail real estate (00:49:24) - Advice for aspiring retail real estate professionals (00:53:13) -Terry’s proudest moments (00:58:05) - Conclusion and final thoughts Links: Trademark Property⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Terry on LinkedIn RH Steve on LinkedIn