Laugh, Lend and Eat

Hosted by Fobby Naghmi

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Jun 2026

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About the show

Laugh, Lend, and Eat is where business meets banter. Hosted by Fobby Naghmi the show explores mortgage lending, leadership, fintech, and sales—with a side of humor and food talk. Known for his ability to ask candid, thought-provoking questions, Fobby creates a space where guests open up and real insights shine through. It's smart, relaxed, and made for professionals who want to grow, lead, and laugh along the way.

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June 10, 202657 min

Who's Fighting For You in Washington, DC? Justin Wiseman That's Who.

Most mortgage professionals have no idea how many critical housing decisions are being made behind closed doors in Washington, D.C.While most of us are focused on rates, inventory, and closing loans, there are people working every day on Capitol Hill to influence the policies that will shape the future of homeownership, housing affordability, and mortgage lending.One of those people is Justin Wiseman.As the Mortgage Bankers Association's leading voice in Washington, Justin is in the room where many of these conversations happen. In this episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat, we discuss:• Why housing affordability has become a national political issue• What Congress is doing about housing supply• The Road to Housing Act and what it could mean for consumers• The regulatory issues mortgage professionals should be watching• How policy decisions made in D.C. ultimately impact borrowers and lenders across AmericaWhether you're a mortgage professional, Realtor, industry executive, or simply someone who cares about the future of housing, this conversation provides an inside look at what's happening in our nation's capital.Who's fighting for you in Washington, D.C.?Justin Wiseman. That's who.🕐 TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Cold open & intro01:30 — Fobby's first-ever formal host intro (seven seasons in)02:40 — Bill Pulte named to oversee national security — what does it mean for FHFA?07:00 — Cross Country / UWM / Two Harbors saga — the vote gets pushed to June 1108:30 — Movement Mortgage loses $100M South Florida team to Radius/Victor Ciardelli11:00 — Justin Wiseman joins the show12:30 — Who is Justin Wiseman? Emory Law, federal clerkship, and finding his home at the MBA15:00 — Housing is finally a political priority — why now?17:30 — The Road to Housing Act: what passed, what didn't, and where it goes next19:30 — Are institutional investors really killing homeownership? The real data21:00 — LO Comp Reform: the MBA's #1 regulatory priority23:00 — The 3 big reforms the MBA is pushing at the CFPB25:00 — Why simply repealing the LO comp rule would actually make things WORSE28:30 — Brokers vs. bankers on comp — where do the lines get drawn?31:30 — Medicaid cuts and what they could mean for senior homeowners33:30 — Will millennials even inherit their parents' homes?34:00 — Trigger Leads (HPPA) — how the MBA got both parties to agree37:30 — The moment Justin thought it wasn't going to happen40:00 — AI in mortgage: the NBA commissions a white paper on licensing41:30 — Can AI be a loan officer? The NMLS question nobody is asking yet42:30 — LOs putting loan estimates into public ChatGPT and Claude — why that's insane43:30 — Uploading borrower data to a public LLM may waive legal privilege45:00 — Single file credit reporting — the MBA's case for pulling just one bureau47:00 — The AEI research: does the tri-merge actually predict defaults better?49:30 — Lawsuits between lenders and loan officers — Fobby gets personal51:00 — Justin's take: "A lawsuit is a messy and ineffective mechanism for achieving justice"53:00 — Fobby's story: three lawsuits and what he learned the hard way55:00 — Justin's pitch: the MBA should do a contract education series for LOs56:00 — What's next? MBA Annual in Chicago, Jerry Seinfeld, and book your flights NOW🎙️ Laugh, Lend & Eat is one of the mortgage industry's top-rated podcasts, hosted by Fobby Naghmi and co-hosted by Justin Neal of Summit Mortgage Corporation. New episodes drop weekly.🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

June 3, 202641 min

The Tinder of Mortgage Recruiting Is Here, and Recruiting Will Never Be the Same Again

What if loan officers could explore their options without anyone knowing?Ellen Duncan, Founder & CEO of mLOOP and former CMO of AnnieMac Home Mortgage, joins Fobby on this week's episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat — and the conversation goes places we didn't plan.Ellen built mLOOP after sitting in a Discovery Day and realizing something was deeply broken about how recruiting works in this industry. LOs spending their most valuable resource — time — answering basic questionnaires that should've been covered long before they walked in the room. She left that meeting and told the COO: "This industry needs the NCAA transfer portal."What she built is being called the Tinder of mortgage recruiting. Anonymous profiles. Data-driven matches. LOs stay invisible until they choose to connect.But this episode isn't just about a platform.Ellen lost her husband Paul suddenly four years ago — when she was in her mid-thirties, married ten years, two daughters, thought she knew what the next fifty years looked like. She opens up about how grief cracked her open, why she sees that as a gift, and how losing Paul gave her a different relationship with risk.One of the most honest conversations we've had on this show.🔗 Find mLOOP at mloop.co📲 Follow Ellen: @ellenduncanofficial📲 Follow mLOOP: @mloopHQCHAPTER MARKERS00:00 — Intro & Welcome01:30 — Justin's out, Ellen's in — how this episode started differently03:00 — Ellen's background: Coca-Cola, Southwest, AnnieMac05:00 — Why she put "Mom" in her LinkedIn headline06:30 — What surprised her about mortgage coming from big brands08:30 — The LO marketing problem: they don't know what they don't know11:00 — The flyer factory and what modern marketing actually looks like13:00 — "Life can be beautiful and hard. Both can be true."14:00 — Paul's sudden passing and how it changed everything16:30 — Freedom, travel, and saying yes — Tanzania with her daughters17:30 — Building mLOOP with her daughters watching19:00 — Happy mom, happy baby — why she did it for herself first20:30 — Grief doesn't end. And that's okay.21:00 — Trauma, creativity, and the Leonard Cohen line about cracks and light23:00 — "Would I be doing this if Paul was here?"23:30 — Hello recruiting — what did she see that was broken?24:30 — The AnnieMac Discovery Day that sparked everything25:20 — "This industry needs the NCAA transfer portal"25:30 — Why people call mLOOP the Tinder of mortgage recruiting28:00 — How mLOOP actually works — the LO side30:00 — How mLOOP works — the lender side33:00 — Recruiters need to become agents35:00 — Fobby's experience being recruited and why timing matters38:00 — The human role technology can't replace39:00 — Where to find mLOOP40:00 — Close

May 27, 202657 min

Is The Data Lying? Or Are Top Producers Pulling Away?

71.5% of all mortgage volume. Closed by 30% of loan officers.Is the data lying? Or are top producers just pulling away?In this episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat, Fobby debuts a brand new segment — "Can We Stop" — calling out the conference culture posts that need to go away forever. Then things get real. Fobby and Justin break down the data behind the 2019–2025 mortgage market share shift, why the middle 40% is losing ground, and what separates the top 30% from everyone else. Plus two practical AI tips any loan officer can use today.Topics covered:The "Can We Stop" segment — conference culture called outMarket share data: top 10%, middle 40%, bottom 30%Why systems and mindset beat rate every timeInspiration is easy. Implementation is rare.AI tip of the week — two ways to use it right nowNext week's guest: Ellen Duncan, founder of Mloop🕐 TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Intro & the "Can We Stop" segment debuts03:30 — Conference culture callout: energy in the room, full cups, and enlightenment posts07:15 — Inspiration is easy. Implementation is rare.11:00 — Ask Fabi: first car, dream vacation, ringtones19:20 — InGenius data drop: top 30% closed 71.5% of all volume in 202521:00 — The market share shift: top 10% gained 4% from 2019–202525:00 — What separates the top 30% from the middle 40%28:00 — The bottom 30%: survival mode, no trust, short-term focus32:00 — The one word the bottom 30% is missing: TRUST37:00 — Long-term thinkers vs. short-term survivors38:00 — William James: your actions control your mood, not the other way around41:00 — Coaching, accountability, and the Tony Robbins story50:45 — AI widens the gap — or compresses it, if you use it51:20 — AI tip of the week: record yourself and get feedback52:30 — Fobby's AI tip: the 5-question loan estimate tool55:00 — Next week's guest + podcast hits #4 in the rankings🔗 CONNECT WITH USWebsite: www.laughlendandeat.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fobby/

May 20, 202646 min

High Tech, High Touch: Dale Vermillion's Formula for Winning in the 2026 Mortgage Market

In this high-tech mortgage world we live in, we forget how important the human touch is. In true form, Dale reminds us that we need to not only survive 2026 but to move forward with our business.43 years in the mortgage industry. Rates at 17.5% when he started. Still closing 30+ loans a month.Dale Vermillion has seen every market cycle there is — and his message for 2026 loan officers is simple: stop blaming the market and start building the habits that actually move the needle.In this episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat, one of the most respected mortgage coaches and trainers in the country breaks down what separates the top 30% of loan officers — who did 71.5% of all mortgage production in 2025 — from everyone else fighting over the scraps.What we cover:Mortgage mindset and mental toughness for loan officers in a high-rate environmentWhy high-tech without high-touch is killing your mortgage pipelineThe "1 sale a day" formula that gets loan officers to 15 closings a monthMortgage sales tips: the Friday seed call and Monday status call that convert pre-approvals into contractsHow top-producing loan officers prospect realtors and build referral partnershipsMortgage lead generation, follow-up strategies, and pipeline managementTime blocking and productivity for mortgage professionalsWhy the bottom 30% of LOs is treating origination like a gig job — and how to break outMortgage recruiting trends and what the 2026 market really looks likeTimestamps:00:00 - Intro & Welcome00:30 - Industry News with James Clyman (The Mortgage Scoop)01:00 - Rocket Mortgage vs. UWM $100M Lawsuit Breakdown03:00 - Could UWM Have a "Countrywide Moment"?05:30 - UWM Pricing Strategy & Wholesale Market Impact07:00 - Rate Predictions: Will the Fed Hike in 2026?08:45 - Mortgage Tech M&A — What's Coming in the Next 6-9 Months09:45 - Lower.com: Ambitious Play or Overreach?11:10 - Welcome Dale Vermillion | Mortgage Champions13:00 - 43 Years in the Industry: What Dale Has Seen14:00 - If Rate Mattered, I Wouldn't Be Here — Mindset Reset16:00 - Attitudes & Actions: The Two Things That Make All the Difference17:30 - The Data: Top 30% Did 71.5% of All Volume in 202519:25 - The 3 Types of People: Make It Happen, Watch It Happen, What Happened20:00 - How to Shift Your Mindset Starting Tomorrow22:00 - What Top Producers Actually Do Differently23:00 - The System Behind Mortgage Champions' Results24:00 - Why Most LOs Fail: No Process, No Plan25:00 - Stop Talking About How Bad the Market Is26:00 - The Bottom 30%: Hard Truths from Dale28:00 - High Tech vs. High Touch: The Biggest Problem in the Industry29:00 - "If You Want to Convert, You Have to Converse"30:50 - The "1 Sale a Day" Formula: How to Close 15 Loans a Month33:00 - The #1 Miss: No Follow-Up34:00 - Plan Your Follow-Up or It Won't Happen34:40 - The Friday Seed Call & Monday Status Call System36:00 - Why COVID Changed the LO Mindset (And Not for the Better)37:50 - Work Smarter: 50 Hours Max, Maximum Output38:00 - The Phone Is Your Biggest Distraction39:00 - Email Pop-Ups: The 12-Second Focus Killer40:00 - Time Blocking for Mortgage Professionals42:00 - Priority-Based Mindset: Fund Your Life First43:00 - Pain Is the Only Teacher for Some People44:00 - How to Reach Dale Vermillion45:00 - Outro & Where to Find Us"If you want to convert, you have to converse." — Dale Vermillion🎙️ Hosted by Fobby Naghmi, SVP at AnnieMac Home Mortgage, and Justin Neal, MBA of Summit Mortgage Corporation🔔 Subscribe for weekly mortgage industry insights, loan officer training, and leadership content👍 Like and share if this helped you

May 13, 202658 min

Your Thoughts Are Not You, But Your AI Thinks They Are

We've had meditation teachers, psychologists, nutritionists, and a psychic on this show trying to fix what's wrong with mortgage people. None of it worked. So this time we went deeper.In this episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat, Fobby and Justin sit down with a married couple who may be the most interesting pair in any industry — Dr. Saloumeh DeGood, licensed clinical psychologist and President of the Sufi Psychology Association, and Andrew DeGood, co-founder and CEO of Ask Bob AI, the mortgage industry's leading AI knowledge platform.One studies the soul. One builds AI for loan officers. They go home to the same house. The conversation that followed was one of the most unexpected, honest, and genuinely useful episodes we've ever recorded.🔑 WHAT WE COVER:✅ What Sufism actually is — in plain language, for a loan officer in Ohio✅ Why your thoughts are not you — and how that unlocks everything✅ The "As a Man Thinketh" debate — Saloumeh vs. James Allen✅ What AI fundamentally gets wrong about human beings✅ Why trauma and creativity are linked — and what that means for AI✅ The Narcissus problem: why talking to ChatGPT can become an echo chamber✅ Andrew's vision: the LO who needs nothing more than an iPhone to run their business✅ Why the loan officers who communicate always win — and AI just 10Xs that gap✅ Can AI replace a psychologist? Saloumeh's honest answer✅ How to survive the mortgage industry with your soul intact⏱️ TIMESTAMPS:00:00 — Intro & LinkedIn jail (the F-bomb story)03:00 — Spirit Airlines, gas prices & Fobby's RICO charge08:30 — Wedding anniversary reveal — Malibu, Tampa & two ceremonies12:30 — What is Sufism? The plain language breakdown17:00 — The "bag" of gathered experiences — how the brain actually works20:00 — Andrew: how Sufism changed how he runs his business21:30 — The dinner table: AI + Sufism under the same roof24:00 — What AI gets wrong about human beings28:00 — Trauma, creativity, and what AI can never replicate34:00 — The Narcissus moment — ChatGPT, Saloumeh's dog, and echo chambers38:30 — "Your thoughts are not you" vs. As a Man Thinketh43:00 — The brain has one goal: preserve calories44:30 — Guardrails, heroin, and cages — Andrew's AGI thought experiment48:00 — Ask Bob AI: what's next (CRUD, MCP, the text-message LO)51:00 — Will AI replace psychologists? Saloumeh's real answer53:30 — Andrew's vision: the AI version of Saloumeh56:30 — The close: AI is the brain. Sufism is the heart. You need both.📲 CONNECT WITH OUR GUESTS:Dr. Saloumeh DeGood — drdgood.com | @sufipsychologyAndrew DeGood — askbobai.com | Andrew D. Goode on LinkedIn ABOUT LAUGH, LEND & EAT:The mortgage industry podcast that doesn't take itself too seriously — but takes the business seriously. Hosted by Fobby Naghmi, SVP at AnnieMac Home Mortgage, and co-host Justin Neal of Summit Mortgage Corporation. New episodes every week.

May 6, 20261 hr 0 min

Nobody is Coming to Save You: The Maria Quattrone Story

Nobody is coming to save you. The sooner you accept that, the faster everything changes.Maria Quattrone has been in real estate for over 30 years. 10,000 YouTube subscribers. 2,800+ videos. A book of business that rings before she picks up the phone. And it all started with a 10-year-old girl, two bus tokens, and a two-mile run through Philadelphia.In this episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat, Maria sits down with Fobby Naghmi and co-host Justin Neal for one of the most honest conversations we've ever had on this show — about victim mentality, ownership, personal brand, paying your dues, and what it actually takes to build something that lasts.If you're in mortgage, real estate, or any commission-based business, this one will hit home. TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Intro & selfie culture with Justin02:46 — Federal Reserve holds rates & what it actually means for your mortgage05:00 — Why the Fed cutting rates doesn't affect your mortgage rate07:00 — Meet Maria Quattrone14:00 — Personal brand, content creation & the compound effect19:00 — Building trust from a distance through social media24:00 — Victim mentality — what it is and how to spot it in yourself25:00 — Everybody gets a trophy. The kids were keeping score anyway.26:28 — The bus token story — where Maria's fight mentality was born29:47 — "The only reason you didn't do it is because you chose not to"31:00 — Our business is about choice management32:50 — The bathroom panic attack and the bad career decision36:00 — How Maria built her book of business from scratch43:36 — Paying your dues — the beeper, the payphone, Sunday dinner46:00 — Expires, cancels and repositioning — Maria's secret weapon55:44 — Maria's speaking journey and Level Up Atlanta57:19 — How to connect with Maria Q🔑 IN THIS EPISODE✅ Why victim mentality is killing your production✅ The difference between a goal and a commitment✅ How Maria built a 30-year book of business through coaching and consistency✅ What paying your dues actually looks like — before smartphones existed✅ Why personal brand is the long game nobody wants to play✅ The compound effect of showing up every single day📲 CONNECT WITH MARIAMaria Quattrone — callmq.comLinkedIn, Facebook & Instagram: @QuattronePhone: 215-607-3535🎙️ ABOUT LAUGH, LEND & EATLaugh, Lend & Eat is the mortgage industry podcast that doesn't take itself too seriously — but takes the business seriously. Hosted by Fobby Naghmi, SVP at AnnieMac Home Mortgage, and co-host Justin Neal of Summit Mortgage Corporation. New episodes every week.#MortgagePodcast #RealEstate #MariaQuattrone #LaughLendAndEat #PersonalBrand

April 29, 202650 min

Meet the Recruiters '26

Most mortgage professionals don't know they could be forced to move with zero warning.Every year, we bring in the best recruiters in the mortgage industry for one unfiltered conversation — and this episode delivered. Andi Arroyo of CONVERT, Noah Zimmerman of Z-Talent, and co-host Justin Neal joined Fobby Naghmi on Laugh, Lend & Eat for 50 minutes of real talk on mortgage recruiting, what loan officers are getting wrong, what companies are hiding, and why most recruiters are playing the game backwards.If you're a loan officer, a mortgage recruiter, or a lending company trying to grow, this episode is for you.🔑 IN THIS EPISODE✅ Why loan officers should stop hanging up on recruiters✅ The "Achilles heel" conversation every honest recruiter should have✅ How to secret shop a company before you sign✅ Why leading with comp is the #1 recruiting mistake✅ The difference between convincing and aligning✅ Why the best hires take years — not weeks🕐 TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Intro & dance moves (don't skip)03:00 — Fobby's RICO story & why lawsuits hurt the little guy05:12 — The new credit score changes & what LOs should do07:00 — Meet the recruiters: Andi, Noah & Justin19:55 — How social media builds trust before the conversation starts21:09 — "You don't have them" — Andi's reframe on candidates going dark23:12 — Noah's pizza table story & the real weight of a career move25:00 — The fishing line analogy — when to let them run27:00 — Why producing managers struggle to recruit42:41 — What companies are doing wrong43:00 — Rapid fire: one mistake companies make when recruiting44:55 — What loan officers should demand but never ask for45:13 — Get a lawyer before you sign anything47:20 — Justin's wife's voicemail & the power of persistence47:56 — Stop convincing. Start aligning.49:55 — Final thoughts & how to connect with the guests📲 CONNECT WITH OUR GUESTSAndi Arroyo — convertrecruiting.comNoah Zimmerman — ztalent.orgJustin Neal — Summit Mortgage Corporation🎙️ ABOUT LAUGH, LEND & EATLaugh, Lend & Eat is the mortgage industry podcast that doesn't take itself too seriously — but takes the business seriously. Hosted by Fobby Naghmi, SVP at AnnieMac Home Mortgage, and co-host Justin Neal. New episodes every week.

April 22, 202655 min

What Loan Officers Are Getting Wrong Right Now (And It’s Costing Them Deals) | Christine Beckwith

If you think rates are the reason your business is slow… you’re already losing.This episode pulls no punches.In this conversation with Christine Beckwith, we break down the uncomfortable truth most loan officers don’t want to hear:👉 It’s not the market👉 It’s not the leads👉 It’s not even the ratesIt’s the conversations you’re having… and the ones you’re avoiding.We go deep into:Why talking about rates is killing your dealsThe real reason borrowers aren’t moving forwardWhat top producers are doing differently right nowHow to reposition yourself as a financial advisor (not a rate quote machine)The mindset gap that’s quietly destroying productionWhy most loan officers won’t be ready when rates dropThis isn’t theory.This is what’s actually happening in the field.If you’re a loan officer, branch manager, or leader trying to figure out why things feel harder than they should… this episode will hit.Hard.Subscribe to Laugh, Lend & Eat for more real conversations on what’s actually working in this market.⏱️ Timestamps0:00 – Intro + News + Banter with Justin Neal4:30 – Market talk: What borrowers are really asking6:15 – Why “Can you beat this rate?” is the wrong question8:30 – Christine Beckwith joins the show9:15 – It’s not about the rate… it’s about financial positioning11:45 – Why most borrowers won’t qualify when rates drop14:30 – The conversation loan officers SHOULD be having16:10 – Industry problem: Activity vs the right conversations18:00 – Why “work harder” advice is failing loan officers19:20 – Realtor strategy: Open houses + standing out differently

April 8, 202655 min

What CMOs Won't Say in Front of Their CEO

Is mortgage marketing actually broken — or is the real problem leadership?Fobby sits down with two of the sharpest fractional CMOs in the mortgage space, Bri Lees and Lauren Dobie, to have the conversation most internal marketing teams can't have in front of their CEO.They get into:→ Why most mortgage marketing is still stuck in 1989→ Company brand vs. loan officer brand — who wins borrower trust?→ Why marketing departments are set up to fail before they even start→ What loan officers are getting wrong on social media→ The one thing Movement Mortgage figured out that no one else has→ What a real marketing infrastructure inside a lender actually looks likePlus: Nexa's residual income play, the Blend CEO controversy, trigger leads, and Justin's flyers. 🚨💬 Featured Guests:👉 Lauren Dobie — Fractional CMO | laurendobiee.com | LinkedIn: Lauren Dobie👉 Bri Lees — Fractional CMO | LinkedIn: Bri Lees | Author of The Hill monthly newsletter📲 Connect With Us:🎙️ Subscribe to Laugh, Lend & Eat on YouTube🔔 Hit the bell so you never miss an episode📸 Follow us on Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook#MortgageMarketing #LoanOfficer #MortgagePodcast #LaughLendandEat #MortgageIndustry #FractionalCMO #PersonalBranding00:00 Intro & Theme Song00:30 April Fools banter & co-host warmup03:45 Mortgage News: Nexa's residual income play — recruiting against it?06:32 The Blend CEO controversy — undisclosed mortgage company08:55 Trigger leads update — what's changing and what LOs should do now10:19 Introducing guests: Bri Lees & Lauren Dobie, Fractional CMOs11:24 What is mortgage marketing actually getting wrong?13:34 The flyer debate — is anyone still doing this? (yes, Justin is)16:10 "We're still living in 1989" — the state of mortgage marketing17:28 Is it a marketing problem or a self-awareness problem?18:38 Leadership is the root cause — not the marketing team20:05 Company brand vs. loan officer brand — who wins borrower trust?22:35 The "clusterfuck" of supporting 150 different LO brands25:09 What does a real marketing infrastructure look like?27:48 Movement Mortgage: the gold standard and why30:27 Why don't marketers just get their license if it's so easy?32:33 Marketing should be enabling sales — not a cost center35:01 Fobby's story: first time putting marketing & recruiting in the same room37:01 What does marketing underestimate about loan officers?39:27 "The brand belongs to whoever leadership is afraid to lose"42:15 Social media for loan officers — how important is it really?44:35 Stop the vanity metrics — what actually moves the needle47:22 Consistency is the real strategy (Fobby's Tuesday 8:45am rule)50:02 What one action can a loan officer take right now?52:38 Know your actual borrower — they've already been on ChatGPT54:46 Don't wait to be perfect — just show up human56:23 Wrapping up + how to find Bri Lees & Lauren Dobie

April 1, 202654 min

70% of your cost problem isn’t the market… it’s you.

While you're blaming the market… others are quietly winning.So what do they see that you don’t?In this episode of Laugh, Lend & Eat, I sit down with Melissa Langdale, Founder & CEO of Praxis, to break down one of the hardest truths in the mortgage industry right now:👉 It’s not the market👉 It’s not the rates👉 It’s not the volumeIt’s how you’re running your business.We get into:Why the mortgage process was never rebuilt — only layered overHow lenders are spending millions on tech… and getting less efficientWhere AI is misunderstood — and how it will actually expose youThe real reason cost to originate keeps risingThe difference between reactive vs proactive prospectingAnd why trust will always outperform technologyThis conversation isn’t theory.It’s what’s actually happening inside mortgage companies today.If you’re a loan officer, branch manager, or leader trying to grow in this market…This episode might make you uncomfortable.But it will also make you better.