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Insightful Investor

Insightful Investor

Hosted by Alex Shahidi

BusinessInvestingInterviews guests

Episodes

137

Latest episode

Aug 2026

Language

EN

About the show

The Insightful Investor is a weekly podcast hosted by Alex Shahidi, Co-CIO of one of the nation’s leading RIAs. In a conversational, “fireside chat” format, Alex interacts with some of the world’s premier investors and business icons to share market insights rarely found elsewhere. While many investors echo common sentiments, our “insights” include concepts that we believe are counterintuitive, widely misunderstood, or underappreciated. With over two decades of experience managing billions of dollars in client assets, Alex offers unique access to some of the industry’s top thinkers. He has authored two investment books and contributed to leading journals, and he consistently ranks among the elite financial advisors by Forbes and Barron’s. As an independent and innovative voice, Alex offers a fresh take on investing. We invite you to tune in and would love to hear your feedback. https://insightfulinvestor.org/

Listen to episodes

60 recent
August 18, 202648 min

#136 - Cathie Wood: Not Another 1999

Cathie is Founder, CEO, and CIO of ARK Investment Management. We discuss why she believes the current innovation wave is not another 1999, the investment implications of AI and technological convergence, and the key consensus views she thinks investors are getting wrong. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

August 11, 202653 min

#135 - Luke Sarsfield: Finding Alpha in Private Markets

Luke is CEO and Chairman of Ridgepost Capital, a leading private markets solutions provider with over $50 billion in assets under management as of June 30, 2026. He previously spent over two decades at Goldman Sachs, including as Global Co-Head of Asset Management. He shares how private markets have evolved, where durable alpha still exists—particularly in the middle market—and what truly separates top investors from the rest. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

August 4, 202653 min

#134 - Steve Ketchum: No Called Strikes in Private Credit

Steve is the Founder, CEO, and CIO of Sound Point Capital Management, a credit-focused asset manager with $44B in AUM. He discusses navigating private credit cycles, managing risk in stressed markets, and applying a “no called strikes” mindset—waiting patiently for the fat pitch where risk-reward is decisively in your favor. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025) This material does not constitute an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. It is being provided solely for informational and reference purposes only and is not intended to be, and must not be, the basis for any investment decision. Statements represent the subjective views of Sound Point as of the date of the recording and cannot be independently verified and are subject to change. All investing involves risks, including the risk of a total loss. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. AUM figures provided are as of June 30, 2026. Firm-wide AUM does not include redemptions received or liquidations that may be in effect as of podcast publication on August 4, 2026. Firm-wide AUM, where relevant, includes committed capital to discretionary draw-down vehicles that have not yet been drawn, entities that are not open to new investors and/or are in the process of winding down and represents the closed total commitment of all loans managed by Sound Point Commercial Real Estate Credit as of August 4, 2026, including inherited portfolios managed that were originated by another manager and assets attributable to a non-advisory client. Source: J.P. Morgan Global Alternative Investment Solutions, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan Investment Bank Credit Research. February 2026

July 28, 202642 min

#133 - Jan van Eck: Macro Forces Shape Markets

Jan is CEO of VanEck, a global investment firm managing over $230 billion. Drawing on decades of studying markets and history, he shares how major macro forces shape investment outcomes, how to position portfolios for structural change, and why big-picture trends may matter more than traditional frameworks. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

July 21, 202637 min

#132 - Steven Klinsky: Private Markets as Operational Edge

Steve is the Founder and CEO of New Mountain Capital, an alternative asset manager with ~$60B in AUM as of year-end 2025, and a longtime leader in building firms focused on disciplined, growth-oriented investing. He shares how private markets have evolved into a game of operational execution and judgment, unpacking defensive growth, lower leverage, and why durable alpha increasingly comes from building better businesses rather than financial engineering. Please visit newmountaincapital.com for more information about New Mountain Capital and a list of its portfolio company investments. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

July 14, 202645 min

#131 - Jason Schwarz: Scaling Institutional Private Markets

Jason is CEO of Wilshire, overseeing roughly $1.76 trillion in assets under advisement and $176 billion in AUM, and has spent more than two decades helping shape the firm’s evolution beyond its index roots. He shares how private markets are moving from institutional portfolios into broader investor access—and why scaling them requires better design, discipline, and implementation, not just access. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

July 7, 202647 min

#130 - Bihua Chen: Inside Biotech Investing

Bihua, CEO and PM of Cormorant Asset Management ($2.5B AUM), explains how she evaluates science, risk, and opportunity across both public and private biotech markets. She shares how investors can separate signal from hype, underwrite uncertainty in drug development, and identify the breakthroughs most likely to shape the future of medicine. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

June 30, 202654 min

#129 - Cathy Marcus: Real Estate Reset

Cathy, Co-Head and Global COO of Real Estate at PGIM, joins us to discuss navigating a $217B real estate platform within a $1.4T firm (as of 12/31/25) and what decades across multiple cycles have taught her about risk, leadership, and investing discipline. She breaks down the current real estate reset, how higher rates are reshaping underwriting and opportunity, and where she sees mispricing across sectors from housing to data centers. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

June 23, 202657 min

#128 - Sarah Ketterer: Temporary Setbacks, Durable Businesses

Sarah is co‑founder, CEO, and portfolio manager at Causeway Capital Management, which she helped launch in 2001 and now manages approximately $68B in assets (as of 3/31/26). She explains how she invests in companies facing temporary setbacks, why underwriting earnings power two years out may matter more than near‑term results, and how thinking past the trough helps identify durable businesses before the recovery becomes obvious. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

June 16, 202655 min

#127 - Brian D'Arcy: Institutional Sports Investing

Brian is a Partner at Sixth Street, a global investment firm managing over $130 billion in assets as of year‑end 2025. He breaks down how Sixth Street approaches sports as an institutional asset class, from identifying asymmetric return profiles and underwriting media and streaming risk to investing beyond team ownership in the broader sports and live entertainment ecosystem. - This podcast/webcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, tax, investment, or business advice. It is not a solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement. All opinions expressed by participants are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Evoke Advisors Division of MAI Capital Management, LLC ("Evoke”), its affiliates, or any companies mentioned. Information shared has not been independently verified by MAI or its affiliates. MAI Capital Management, LLC (“MAI”) is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC"), which does not imply any particular level of skill or training. Certain information contained herein has been obtained from third party sources and such information has not been independently verified. No representation, warranty, or undertaking, expressed or implied, is given to the accuracy or completeness of such information by any person. While such sources are believed to be reliable, Evoke does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of such information. Evoke does not undertake any obligation to update the information contained herein as of any future date. The content is intended for a general audience and does not constitute a recommendation to buy or sell securities or adopt any investment strategy. Any examples or scenarios discussed are illustrative only, involve risks and uncertainties, and do not guarantee future results. Non-traditional assets carry significant risks and may not be suitable for all investors. Decisions should be based on individual objectives, risk tolerance, and circumstances. Statements herein are general and may not reflect an individual’s or entity’s specific circumstances or applicable laws, which vary by jurisdiction. Further, speakers’ views are personal and may differ from Evoke and MAI recommendations and are not specific investment advice; and do not consider client objectives, risk tolerance, and diversification. Guests may have current or past relationships with Evoke and MAI, its affiliates, or the host, including as clients, service providers, or business partners. Participation does not constitute an endorsement or testimonial. No compensation has been paid or received for guest participation unless disclosed. MAI and its affiliates may have business relationships with entities mentioned in this podcast, which could create potential conflicts of interest. These relationships may include advisory services, investment management, or other arrangements. MAI seeks to manage such conflicts consistent with its fiduciary obligations and policies. (As of December 22, 2025)

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