In The Arena

Hosted by Cameron Schwab

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May 2026

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About the show

Leadership is the Difference Maker On this podcast, former CEO of three AFL clubs and founder of designCEO, Cameron Schwab, unlocks leadership and the lessons earned and learned by the very leaders who dare to fail greatly. This audio encyclopaedia of leadership knowledge borrows and shares the wisdom that can only be learnt In the Arena, allowing the listener to apply uniquely to their own role in work, business and life. Challenge your own leadership conventions and be taken on a journey that meets you where you are but doesn’t leave you where it finds you. Play on!

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35 recent

May 19, 20261 hr 15 min

Dave Misson - "It's never about you"

Dave Misson has spent a career where most people would never know his name, and that's exactly the point. High performance manager across Tennis Australia, Australian Cricket, the Sydney Swans, St Kilda and Melbourne Football Clubs, Dave has been in the room for premierships, World Cups and some of the most powerful cultural moments in Australian sport.He steps into the arena with a mantra given to him over dinner in Mount Gambier by his mentor Ken Richardson: it's never about you.We go deep on the Bloods culture at the Swans, on mechanics and dynamics, on what it means to unlock performance rather than extract it, and on why the most powerful words in any team are simply — you belong here.This is a conversation for any leader who wants to understand what high performance actually looks like when ego leaves the room.

May 4, 20261 hr 20 min

Janey Martino - 'Celebrating the cracks'

Janey Martino built Smiling Mind, one of Australia's most impactful not-for-profits, led businesses, coached founders, and is now back in the CEO chair at KIC. But this conversation isn't about what she's built — it's about what broke, and what she found inside the cracks.Janey steps into the arena with a willingness to go there, sharing openly the moments that reshaped how she leads and lives.We go deep on the Japanese philosophy of Kintsugi, on learning to feel before you think, and on the tension every leader carries between coaching and operating.This is a conversation for any leader who has ever tried to hold it all together and wondered whether letting go might actually be the work.

April 21, 20261 hr 34 min

Neil Craig - 'A game never won'

Neil Craig is the first guest we've brought back into the arena — and for good reason. He's 70, coaching leaders at the Australian Institute of Sport, and still the most curious person in any room he walks into.Former AFL senior coach at Adelaide, performance coach with England Rugby and the Wallabies, and a wonderful mentor of mine.We go deep on expectations — the most dangerous word in high performance — and what happens when your behaviour drifts under pressure. Neil tells the story of a CEO brave enough to say, "You're not the coach we appointed." We talk about coaching effort, the critical friend every leader needs, and why the best coaches never stop being coached themselves. A game never won.Notebook ready.Play on.

January 5, 20261 hr 29 min

Gabrielle Dolan - 'Leading with story'

I can’t remember exactly when I first heard the statement: “If it’s too obvious, it can’t be trusted.”This thought comes to mind when I am speaking with Gabrielle Dolan, a leader I have come to know over the past decade and feel so fortunate to have done so.The fact that we immediately connected is no surprise. Her leadership builds on the power of story, its nuance, and relatability. Our capacity to draw on personal lessons and learnings to understand self and what’s important to us, whilst developing the confidence to draw on these insights and tell our story to build a deeper connection with others and a commitment to a shared purpose and plan.Mostly, however, a story’s capacity to express what truly matters, your values and principles, that once told holds you accountable, as your credibility will now be judged by your capacity to live them, especially when it gets hard, as it will.I doubt, therefore, whether there is a more important skill for leaders than storytelling, including our capacity to tell our own.I understand this statement would be very challenging, if not confronting, for many leaders.For more than two decades, Gabrielle has worked with leaders across business, sport, and government, helping them move beyond jargon that can’t be trusted and into meaning that can.Notebook ready.Play on.

December 8, 20251 hr 30 min

Dr. Damien Taylor - 'The second mountain'

There comes a time when every leader must pause and take stock.For Dr Taylor, it’s the passage between age 40 and 55, a stretch of life that exposes both the weight and the cost of relentless striving. It’s a season that asks harder questions, such as:Is this still who I want to be?What truly matters now?It’s a crossroad that humbles even the most accomplished. The first mountain’s confidence gives way to doubt, yet it’s here, in the quiet and discomfort, that purpose begins to form.In turning inward, leaders learn to lead from a place that is a true reflection of who they are, and from the lessons learned, what we describe as their ‘leader’s limp’.“I don’t teach anything I haven’t fucked up”, I explain to Dr Taylor in support of his hypothesis.Success becomes less about climbing higher and more about deepening connection, to self, to others, and to purpose. It’s leadership as practice, not performance. In this space, “good enough” is not resignation but wisdom, the recognition that steadiness, kindness, and self-awareness are the new measures of mastery.When leaders learn to value calm over control, and meaning over momentum, they discover that the summit was never the goal; it was about growth, even though you never realised it at the time.Notebook ready…Play on!

November 18, 20251 hr 24 min

Jenny George - 'A different way of hearing things'

Jenny George runs Melbourne Business School - #1 in Australia. "A CEO is a symbol of what matters," she says. "Every choice you make — what you wear, where you sit, how you spend your time — tells the organisation who it's becoming."A mathematician turned CEO who learned leadership at thirteen, voting on where the family's charity money went. Her parents chose impact over income - dad building electricity systems for nations, mum counselling prisoners. Both asking: where can I make the difference only I can make?"Cut off my information flow and we're done," she tells me. We both know people who wake up thinking about power over rather than power with. Now she asks every leader the same question: "What are you doing that only you can do?" Everything else is noise.We explore how small choices become systematic change, why she sings eight-part Renaissance music (if you don't show up, your note doesn't exist), and what breaks trust between leaders.For CEOs who understand that leadership isn't about control - it's about creating conditions for others to thrive.

October 30, 20251 hr 30 min

Maggie Roberts - 'The pain of standing still'

At sixteen, Maggie Roberts broke her back three weeks before the Olympic diving trials. Eight months later, at three in the morning, she made a decision that would define her life: she went for a run. "The pain of my injury was less than the pain of standing still."From that moment of choosing movement over stillness came a scholarship to the University of Hawaii, three degrees, three years as the WAC Athlete of the Year, and, ultimately, becoming CEO of Creative Factory at just twenty-five. Eighteen years later, she's never stopped moving forward.In this conversation, Maggie shares her five-point daily framework for maintaining momentum, how visualisation took her from world champion at nine to boardroom success, and why harmony resides on expectations. A powerful exploration of what truly matters versus what seems to matter, and the decision to keep moving forward, one step at a time. Notebook ready,Play on!

October 7, 20251 hr 27 min

John Didulica - 'Without fear or favour'

"Unless you have a deeper sense of what sport can be, it’s impossible to navigate the ups and downs you face every day."John Didulica grew up in football clubs forged by migrants, led by his grandfather, who arrived in Australia in the early 50s with very little, but with everything to give. Those clubs became sanctuaries of the willing — places where people felt safe enough to be who they are, and strong enough to carry what the game and life would ask of them.These are the best stories. Told with love, humility, and deep insight. They lift you. They shift you. They challenge you.For John, leadership is no bullshit — just the courage to show up, really show up. To lead without fear or favour is to create spaces where people can be themselves. To serve something larger than yourself. Not just what you bring to the team — what are you prepared to do for the team?What we celebrate in sport is always built on what few get to see — the unseen heavy lifting of volunteers, families, and leaders who make it possible. This is where leadership lives.Nowhere is this clearer than in John’s work with the Afghan women’s team — formed after players fled the Taliban. With courage and care, a team was built, and a place to belong was created. Every generation needs its own Afghan women’s team — a reminder that sport’s greatest calling is the transformation of lives.Such is leadership. Such is John Didulica.Notebook ready. Play on.

September 9, 20251 hr 25 min

Paul Marsh - 'Carrying the weight forward'

When bombs exploded near the Australian cricket team's hotel in Pakistan, Paul Marsh was just 33 and only weeks into his role as CEO of the Australian Cricketers' Association. No playbook. No precedent. Just the weight of responsibility for some of Australia's most recognisable athletes in immediate danger. "I felt like I was failing," our next guest 'In the Arena' reflects, the memory still sharp decades later. In this powerful conversation, the son of cricket icon Rod Marsh and former CEO of the AFL Players Association shares hard-won lessons about finding answers when you don't have them, turning mistakes into systems that save lives, and navigating the space between competing truths. From negotiating landmark deals that doubled AFLW wages to leading 800 players through COVID's hub life, Paul's story is one of carrying the weight forward - not just for today's athletes, but for those yet to come. His mantra from predecessor Tim May still guides him: "Be smart enough to know when you're not smart enough."Notebook Ready!Play on.

July 25, 20251 hr 29 min

Ameet Bains - 'Just be you'

For leaders, 'not knowing' is our greatest source of vulnerability. Leadership is in the business of ambiguity - if not for ambiguity, we don't need leadership.In this episode, Western Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains shares his journey from a kid of Indian heritage in 1980s Bendigo to leading one of the AFL's most respected clubs. His story reveals how authentic leadership isn't about having all the answers, but about having the courage to show who you really are, especially when you don't know what comes next.From taking racism to tribunal as a young amateur footballer, to navigating COVID's unprecedented challenges, to managing Luke Beveridge's contract renewal with remarkable grace - Ameet demonstrates that the best leaders create space for others to shine rather than inserting themselves where they don't belong."I am only where I am because of the people who have supported me and invested in me," Ameet reflects. Sometimes the greatest strength is found in simply being who you are.Notebook ready.Play on!