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Icons of DC Area Real Estate

Icons of DC Area Real Estate

Hosted by John Coe

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Episodes

135

Latest episode

Jul 2026

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EN-US

About the show

An interview show with leading commercial and multifamily real estate participants in various disciplines. John Coe, a 41 year real estate finance professional, will interview many of his long time friends and past clients to learn about their backgrounds and what brought them into the income producing real estate business. He will probe into their career paths and what they have learned along the way, highlighting their successes, failures and lessons learned. Each episode will explore the interviewee's individual perspective and offer unique views of their particular expertise and where the trends are leading.

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60 recent
August 14, 20261 hr 12 min

The Architecture of Enduring Stewardship How The Bozzuto Group Creates Sanctuary (#152)

This episode explores the concept of "Sanctuary" in commercial real estate, examining how the Bozzuto Group creates a culture that transcends development and management to prioritize human dignity and long-term stewardship. Host John Coe interviews Tom Bozzuto, Julie Smith, and Toby Bozzuto to discuss the four pillars of career stewardship: Clarity, Connection, Leadership, and Legacy. Key Time-Stamped Highlights [0:02 - 1:44] Foundations of Culture: Tom Bozzuto explains the necessity of defining organizational values early. The company centers its entire culture around four simple, one-word values: Concern, Creativity, Passion, and Perfection. [2:02 - 3:39] Defining Sanctuary: Julie Smith discusses the origins of the "sanctuary" philosophy, emphasizing that housing moves are driven by life changes and that property management should treat residents as friends for life. [13:19 - 16:28] Hiring Strategy: Tom Bozzuto details the company's hiring mantra: "It's a lot easier to hire a nice person and teach them skills than it is to hire a skilled person and teach them to be nice". [31:53 - 34:32] The Total Experience: Toby Bozzuto discusses the theatrical side of real estate, highlighting the importance of "proprietary scents," curated art, and music in creating an immersive, welcoming environment. [41:13 - 44:13] Ethical Boundaries in Leadership: Toby Bozzuto explains the decision to turn down profitable assignments if the client's ethics do not align with the company's culture, noting that leadership is defined by what you are willing to protect. [46:52 - 48:35] Equitable Sanctuary: Toby Bozzuto discusses the company's work with affordable housing partnerships, asserting that residents in affordable units should receive the same high-level treatment as those in luxury condominiums. [52:37 - 54:25] Preparing for Succession: Julie Smith outlines the long-term process of identifying and mentoring Stephanie Williams, emphasizing that succession requires proximity, shared work, and expanded responsibility. [1:03:17 - 1:04:18] Transitioning Leadership: Tom Bozzuto reflects on his transition to Chairman and the importance of stepping back to allow his successor to truly lead the day-to-day operations. Resources Tom Bozzuto — Episode 9: Amazing "Reflections" on a Life Well Lived | The Bozzuto Group | LinkedIn Toby Bozzuto — Episode 90: Artistically Providing Sanctuary | The Bozzuto Group | LinkedIn Julie Smith — Episode 48: Smooth Operator | The Bozzuto Group | LinkedIn Chapters (00:00:00) - The Leasing Company's(00:01:55) - In the Elevator With Bozzuto(00:03:36) - The Secret to Servant Leadership(00:05:01) - What Kind of Professional Culture Does JBG Real Estate Have?(00:06:50) - The Real Estate Company: A Sanctuary(00:08:29) - The Basuto Group's Sanctuary Culture(00:11:16) - The Need for a Culture(00:18:05) - The Core Values of Busuto Property Management(00:21:28) - Living Continues: Stewardship(00:28:39) - Building for the Soul(00:34:40) - The Physical Experience of Leadership(00:38:04) - Act 4 Leadership: What are you willing to Protect?(00:43:24) - Busuto's Affordable Housing Partners(00:48:45) - The Legacy of a Leader(00:58:56) - The Process of Succession in Families(01:00:19) - Tom Buzzuto on His Transition to Chairman(01:02:37) - What is the biggest success of your experience forming the company?(01:04:22) - The Four Pillars of CREAM: Career Stewardship(01:08:22) - Commercial Real Estate Career Stewardship Advisory

July 24, 202650 min

Icons of DC 151 - The JBG Career Operating System: A Case Study in CRE Stewardship (#151)

Bio This special compilation episode departs from the usual one-on-one format. Host John C. Coe draws on past interviews with leaders connected to JBG and JBG Smith — Matt Kelly (CEO, JBG Smith), Todd Rich (Declaration Partners), Moina Banerjee (CFO, JBG Smith), Evan Regan Levine, A.J. Jackson (Washington Housing Initiative / LEO Impact Capital), and Grant Ehat (JBG co-founder) — to reverse-engineer what he calls the "JBG Career Operating System": five principles mapped to four levels of career stewardship — clarity, connection, leadership, legacy. The thesis: enduring CRE careers aren't built by chasing opportunity, but by cultivating the judgment, trust, and generosity required to build something that outlasts you. Key Discussion Points Introduction & Framework [00:00-4:19] Coe frames a real estate career not as opportunities to extract value from, but as a practice of stewardship — asking whether professionals are intentionally designing their careers or simply reacting to what comes their way. Principle 1: Solve for the People First [4:19-10:35] Matt Kelly recalls his father's advice and a formative early-career experience at Goldman Sachs — watching an ailing VP spend his final months at the office — that convinced him colleagues matter more than prestige. How JBG's senior leaders gave young talent real room to run instead of hoarding opportunity. Principle 2: Earn Trust Before Authority [10:39-19:46] Todd Rich on stewarding other people's capital and JBG's "minority rule" culture, where one partner's unresolved concern could stop a deal. Moina Banerjee traces her path from acquisitions to CFO and shares her billboard message on attitude, inspired by a framed Charles Swindoll quote on a mentor's office wall. Principle 3: Learn Judgment in the Room [19:46-31:52] Evan Regan Levine on what he learned watching senior leaders vehemently disagree, with respect, inside investment committee meetings. A.J. Jackson shares a personal account of decision-making at GSA in Lower Manhattan on 9/11, with "no playbook and no one else to ask." Principle 4: Share the Pie to Increase the Pie [31:57-38:50] Grant Ehat on trusting instincts on people, valuing character and loyalty in hiring decisions made alongside JBG co-founders Jim and Rob, and why cultures that develop young talent compound it rather than lose it. Principle 5: Build Beyond Yourself [38:50-44:55] Evan Regan Levine on National Landing and the intersection of communication, analytics, and design in shaping real places. A.J. Jackson on deploying private capital at scale to preserve affordable workforce housing as neighborhoods improve. Synthesis & Billboard Messages [44:55-50:06] Coe ties the five principles into one arc — clarity, connection, leadership, legacy — closing with guest billboard messages: Matt Kelly, "Be kind to one another." Todd Rich, "Have fun." Moina Banerjee, "Fortune favors the brave." A.J. Jackson, "Stronger together." Evan Regan Levine, "The future is built here." Synthesis: build trust, share opportunity, steward the future. Guest Episodes Referenced Matt Kelly: https://icons-of-dc-area-real-estate.castos.com/episodes/matt-kelly-finding-a-smooth-landing-path-for-jbg-smith-27 Todd Rich: https://icons-of-dc-area-real-estate.castos.com/episodes/todd-rich-family-office-private-equity-investor-81 Moina Banerjee: https://icons-of-dc-area-real-estate.castos.c... Chapters (00:00:00) - Indispensable Real Estate Leaders: The JBG Smith Story(00:07:25) - JBG Career Operating System: Career Stewardship(00:10:52) - Real Estate Career Stewardship(00:17:00) - The importance of attitude in the workplace(00:23:00) - Real Estate: The Need for Competence(00:25:29) - Jehovah's Witness to the 911 Crisis(00:31:52) - JBG Real Estate's 4 Rules for Leadership(00:39:42) - Real Estate Success: Decisions Made, Communities Shaped(00:44:56) - The JBG Career Operating System(00:47:28) - Icons of Real Estate: Steward the Future

July 1, 20261 hr 46 min

Marc Menick: Stewardship and Strategy in Guiding KLNB Through Industry Disruptions (#150)

Bio Marc Menick is President and COO of KLNB, a leading partner-owned CRE firm in DC. He spent nearly 20 years as a key Peterson Companies executive, helping shape developments like National Harbor and Downtown Silver Spring, before becoming KLNB's first non-broker President in 2017. Host: John Coe. Key Discussion Points Origins and Educational Foundation [2:04-7:16] Started in private wealth management at 23; found it impersonal and was drawn to CRE after watching friends work directly with small business owners. Broke in via Jay Donegan, Grant Ehat, and Taylor Chess, landing at The Peterson Companies. Maryland built independence and relationships; Johns Hopkins gave the technical grounding (DCF modeling) for credibility. The Peterson Companies and the Developer's Perspective [7:17-29:09] Nearly 20 years (1998-2017) under Milt Peterson, Tom Maskey, Taylor Chess, and Bill Smith during the region's biggest growth era. Ran retail leasing for National Harbor through the 2008 crisis, rebuilding the merchandising plan after major brands backed out. Key lesson from Maskey: retail is entertainment; communities, not developers, decide what a place becomes. Peterson's own rule: stay out of talented people's way, but send a clear message - "figuratively" - when needed. The Leap to KLNB and Leadership Style [29:10-40:07] Left Peterson in 2017 for an "entrepreneurial itch"; KLNB's true partnership model and growth playbook, not management itself, was the draw. Biggest surprise: stepping out of day-to-day deals to support 110 brokers across a dozen disciplines. Leadership style: build trust by caring, let friction resolve itself rather than micromanage talented salespeople. Navigating Disruptions: Markets, AI, and a Cyberattack [40:08-57:28] Reads the market by "walking the halls" - broker sentiment beats lagging headlines. Diversified into industrial, data centers, healthcare, and government; credits Kevin Goller for spotting Loudoun County's data-center boom early. Leaning hard into AI for marketing and analysis - it won't eliminate CRE jobs, but will replace people who don't use it. Toughest test: the 2022 ransomware attack. Refused to pay, rebuilt systems overnight, absorbed real cost rather than fund the criminals. Retail Prognosis: Clicks-to-Bricks [57:30-1:08:39] Debunks the "retail apocalypse" - digital-native brands (Warby Parker, UNTUCKit) need stores to scale and manage returns. IKEA is the gold standard of experiential retail - a "board game" that fully immerses shoppers. Grocery-anchored neighborhood centers stay durable: close to home, and a form of everyday entertainment. The Future of Downtown D.C. [1:08:40-1:12:38] Optimistic on downtown's comeback: Georgetown, the Wharf, and Navy Yard thriving; COVID-depressed Golden Triangle/Dupont offices converting to residential. Expects a 24-hour, mixed-use downtown, not the old 9-to-5 commuter pattern. Sees retail shrinkage and Metro fare evasion slowly improving as enforcement tightens. The KLNB Partnership Model, Talent, and Mentorship [1:12:39-1:43:08] True equity partnership - one share class, full transparency - is KLNB's "glue" in a commission... Chapters (00:00:00) - Idols of D.C. Area Real Estate(00:00:51) - Interviewing Mark Menick(00:02:43) - Lucky in Commercial Real Estate: Mark Minick(00:06:17) - Post-Bacc MS in Real Estate, Maryland and Johns Hopkins(00:07:51) - Retiring as a developer at Peterson Companies(00:14:06) - The Anchor of National Harbor(00:15:08) - Former National Harbor Executive Discusses The Property's Success(00:23:45) - Getting Out of the Way(00:26:58) - Simon Property's Tom Maskey on Retail's Growth(00:28:58) - In the Elevator With KLNB's First Non Broker(00:31:37) - Mark Peterson on Starting His Own Real Estate Company(00:35:52) - In the Elevator With Your Team(00:38:39) - KLMB CEO on Leading a Real Estate Company(00:41:00) - Can You Predict The Market's Future?(00:44:13) - KLMB Real Estate: The Integration of Data Center and Retail(00:49:59) - Exploring New Sectors at Washington Commercial Real Estate(00:52:38) - What was the most difficult leadership decision you made?(00:57:23) - On the Defending Our Property(00:58:14) - Understanding the Relationship Between e-commerce and Physical Retail(01:00:57) - What Physical Retail Experiences Remain Impossible to replicate?(01:06:45) - Retail Sweep: A Board Game(01:07:22) - Downtown Retailers face unique challenges(01:13:07) - D.C. Mayor on crime(01:13:24) - KLMB Brokerage's Partnership Model(01:16:15) - Have We Elevated Partners to Partnership?(01:17:46) - What Qualities Make a Good Broker?(01:20:03) - What Would You Do To Rebuild Your Career?(01:21:32) - Mentorship programs in commercial real estate(01:23:42) - George Washington University's Internship Program(01:27:22) - In the Elevator With Mentors(01:28:23) - What advice do you have for young professionals entering the business today?(01:29:46) - What are most investors getting wrong about retail real estate?(01:32:16) - What is it about retail that makes it unique?(01:33:24) - What technologies are genuinely transforming commercial real estate?(01:36:20) - D.C. Business Insider: The resurgence of downtown(01:39:31) - What Real Estate Wisdom Can Real Estate Professionals Learn Through Experience?(01:41:32) - A Taste of KLMB's culture(01:43:49) - Getting it out of the Way(01:44:40) - Interviewing Mark Schiller(01:45:27) - CRE Career Stewardship Advisory

May 21, 20261 hr 39 min

Matt Nicholson- From Broker to Principal: Mastering the Mid-Atlantic Capital Markets (#149)

Bio Matt Nicholson is Executive Vice President of Investments and Development for the Mid-Atlantic region at Lincoln Property Company, with over 18 years of commercial real estate experience and more than $20 billion in executed capital markets activity. A DC-area native raised in Annapolis, he attended the Severn School before earning a BA in Economics from Dartmouth College in 2005, where he played Division I lacrosse. He later earned an MBA in Finance from Georgetown University's McDonough School of Business in 2013 and serves as a Board Member for Georgetown's Steers Global Real Assets Center. Nicholson began his career as a paralegal at White & Case before moving into agency lending at Deutsche Bank Berkshire Mortgage, then joined HFF as an analyst in 2007. Following HFF's 2019 acquisition by JLL, he became Senior Managing Director co-leading the DC Office Investment Advisory Team. In March 2025, he joined Lincoln Property Company to lead investments, acquisitions, and development across the DMV corridor. The Leap to Lincoln Property Company [00:03:10] Matt discusses his early 2025 transition to Lincoln Property Company (LPC), where he oversees 700+ professionals, a 65-million-square-foot management portfolio, and 30 million square feet of leasing. He details LPC's 60-year history and partnership culture, and how the 2023 sale of its residential division (now Willow Bridge) and the Stonepoint Capital transaction cleared internal conflicts — enabling the commercial team to build an 18,000-unit multifamily pipeline. Roots of Resilience: Family, Loss & Work Ethic [00:13:30] Growing up in Annapolis, Matt lost his father at 10 and his mother 14 years later. He credits his drive to the courage of his late parents, the Depression-era grit of his grandparents, and his stepfather's relentless dedication — traveling globally for Micros Systems while raising Matt and his three younger brothers. The Defenseman's Playbook: Dartmouth Lacrosse to Real Estate [00:18:00] Following his father and uncle, Matt played Division I lacrosse at Dartmouth. Overcoming two knee injuries and a coaching change taught him that success means staying in the fight for your teammates. He explains how playing defense shaped his professional mindset — viewing complex capital stacks and risk mitigation through a tactical, strategic lens. Ethical Leadership & Fearless Effort [00:32:30] Matt shares his philosophy of "contagious light" — never asking his team to do something he wouldn't do himself. In institutional real estate, he argues that unwavering honesty and treating partners like teammates is bulletproof long-term strategy, especially during market resets and corrections. Navigating the Capital Stack & The Power of Reps [00:37:00] After stints as a paralegal and in agency lending, a family friend's career roadmap steered Matt toward capital markets. Starting at HFF just before the GFC, he built expertise through high transaction volume and a part-time Georgetown MBA. His core advice: prioritize "reps and fast pace" — stack learning experiences by underwriting and evaluating as many deals as possible early on. Market Outlook: DC Distress & Structural Demand [01:13:58] With DC office vacancy around 18.5%, Matt breaks down the market's bifurcation: top-tier law firms are driving Trophy asset demand while 1980s-vintage product struggles. He details Lincoln's strategy of chasing "structural demand" — infill logistics in the Baltimore-Washington corridor, medical office, and Northern Virginia's data center boom — and addresses the regional impact of federal workforce reductions from DOGE. Life Beyond the Deal: Fatherhood, Mentorship & Giving Back [01:31:30] Father of four boys, Matt coaches youth lacrosse and prioritizes weekend family time. He discusses mentoring the next generation through the ULI Mentorship pr... Chapters (00:00:00) - Icons of DC Area Real Estate(00:00:50) - Matt Nicholson(00:03:39) - Econs of ECA Real Estate(00:05:10) - How big is the Lincoln Property Company team in the Mid Atlantic?(00:06:06) - Interviews: Lincoln's Principal Acquisition Officer(00:07:47) - HFF Real Estate Interview: Lincoln Property Company(00:13:04) - Lincoln Residential's ability to do multifamily(00:14:07) - How My Grandparents Shaped My Career(00:21:04) - Getting your start in real estate at Dartmouth(00:24:25) - Georgetown Law Student on Starting Out in Real Estate(00:26:41) - Back in the Elevator at HFF(00:27:28) - Post-Grad School Support(00:28:22) - Georgetown's McDonough School(00:29:40) - Ex-Lacrosse Star on Playing Division 1(00:33:18) - What Kind of Ethical Leadership Can You Involve(00:35:20) - Lincoln Real Estate's Commitment to Integrity(00:37:59) - Exploring Real Estate in Your Early Career(00:40:03) - Exploring the Baltimore-Washington Economic Connection(00:42:04) - Have Intermediaries Changed the Way Wealth Advisors Work?(00:46:33) - How did acting as a Strategic Consultant shape your knowledge of the(00:47:54) - What was the most complicated or complex situation you ever got yourself into(00:50:14) - Have You Turned Down an Entrepreneurial Role?(00:52:18) - How Do You Balance the Hustle Needed to Close Real Estate(00:53:19) - Institutional Real Estate: Structured Environment(00:55:41) - Ray Richie on mentoring the next generation of real estate professionals(00:59:38) - Remembering ULI's Mentorship Group(01:00:58) - What aspects of integrating with JLL were the most stimulating?(01:04:00) - Understanding the user of real estate(01:05:01) - What Were the Most Spirited Parts of Putting Together Complex Transactions?(01:09:04) - What advice would you give young people considering starting their careers in brokerage(01:11:45) - Real Estate: Will AI Impact the Industry?(01:14:29) - DC Office Market: Bifurcation(01:17:32) - Does a Mixed-Use Development Make Sense for the City?(01:18:35) - Are you aware of any blocks in the city that are being assembled(01:20:55) - Doge Jobs Losses in the Region Impact the Region?(01:22:51) - Law Firm Growth: Is It Real?(01:24:50) - Reasons We're Investing in Data Centers, Healthcare & Inf(01:28:09) - Lincoln Property Group becoming more active in office investment(01:33:52) - How Do You Manage Technology in Your Child's Life?(01:35:14) - JLL Philanthropic Priorities(01:37:18) - Ending With Matt Nicholson(01:39:16) - A message for the future

April 7, 20261 hr 33 min

Andrew McGeorge: Cultivating a Growth Mindset in CRE (#148)

Bio Andrew McGeorge is Senior Managing Director and City Head of the Hines Washington D.C. office, overseeing new business development, acquisitions, asset management, and property management across the Mid-Atlantic. A Naval Academy graduate and Navy veteran, he built a career spanning residential construction at Toll Brothers, commercial office development at Monday Properties, and multifamily development at Fairfield Residential before joining Hines in 2020. He holds an MS in Organizational Dynamics from UPenn and an MBA from MIT Sloan, and is a LEED Accredited Professional and active ULI member. Hines DC: Legacy & Vision [2:39] Andrew describes his City Head role and the goal to double Hines' Mid-Atlantic AUM over five years. Sitting in Hines' original DC office building—Columbia Square, delivered in 1986—he reflects on inheriting a 40-year legacy built by predecessors Bill Alsop and Chuck Waters and his commitment to being a worthy steward of it. Background: Naval Academy & Early Life [7:49] Raised in Devon, Pennsylvania, Andrew credits athletics, the military, and academia for shaping his discipline. Lacrosse opened the door to the Naval Academy; he served as a Supply Corps officer in Yokosuka, Japan, then as an intelligence officer at the Pentagon before pivoting to real estate. Building the Foundation: Toll Brothers, Graduate School & Mundy Properties [13:24] Andrew joined Toll Brothers' PM training program straight from the Navy, then earned an MS at Penn (while still active duty) and an MBA at MIT via the GI Bill—driven by a love of learning, not credential-chasing. A timely pivot to Mundy Properties in 2006 led him through the GFC, including the all-equity development of the LEED Platinum 1812 North Moore tower in Rosslyn with Lehman Brothers as partner. Fairfield Residential to Hines [27:32] After overseeing Mid-Atlantic multifamily development at Fairfield Residential from 2016–2019, Andrew joined Hines to return to complex mixed-use environments. He reflects on navigating a rising interest rate environment post-May 2022 as the steepest learning curve of his career. Key Projects: North Bethesda, Walter Reed & CityCenterDC [38:17] Three marquee projects: a transit-oriented data science hub planned for North Bethesda Metro station; the ongoing adaptive reuse challenges at the Parks at Walter Reed; and the "herculean" 2023 CityCenterDC refinancing—a $300M CMBS SASB deal closed with JP Morgan amid the SVB/Signature Bank collapse, the first such transaction in approximately 18 months. DC Housing Crisis & The Affordable Housing Paradox [57:55] The region needs ~200,000 new homes by 2030 but has averaged only ~12,000 units annually since 2021. Andrew flags a frustrating irony rarely discussed publicly: developers are building affordable units willingly, but severe administrative obstacles are leaving those units vacant at CityCenterDC, Walter Reed, and the Wharf alike. Growth Mindset, Sustainability & Billboard Message [1:10:17] Andrew discusses Hines' firm-wide LEED commitment and the ethical legacy of the Hines family. On mentorship, he reflects on a 20-year relationship with host John Coe, his original ULI mentor. His billboard: "The magic is in the work that you're avoiding"—a call to lean into discomfort, because nothing ever grows in the comfort zone. Resources:Andrew McGeorge LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-mcgeorge-62053b3/ Chapters (00:00:00) - Indivents of DC Area Real Estate(00:02:35) - The Role of the City Head of Heinz Washington D.C(00:05:49) - Heinz D.C. Office: Growth Through Acquisitions(00:07:29) - How the Navy Influenced My Business Decision(00:12:04) - Favorite memory of a Navy pilot(00:12:38) - Real Estate Graduates at Toll Brothers(00:18:08) - Getting Out of College(00:20:00) - Pivot from Toll Brothers to Mundy Properties(00:22:18) - Former Mundy Properties Executives on Lehman Brothers Property(00:25:41) - The Westrights' role in Rosslyn's skyline(00:27:25) - When Brookfield Expands into Multifamily Development(00:32:52) - Chuck Waters on Reinventing the Real Estate Industry(00:37:51) - Heinz Properties' diversification away from office(00:39:49) - Exploring 1050 17th Street: An Interesting Acquisition(00:41:30) - Heinz Development's $15 Million Metro Station Mixed-Use(00:45:05) - Marriott Expands into Washington DC(00:49:22) - Developers on the Army Base Project(00:52:43) - The Hard Work Behind City DC Refinance(00:57:37) - Heinz Property Group CEO Discusses Current Market Conditions(00:59:03) - Would Heinz Be Forming a Home Builder?(01:00:16) - Washington DC Office Sales: Slow Growth Prospects(01:06:53) - Washington, DC Real Estate Investment(01:09:57) - North Bethesda Commercial Partners Lead Accredited Professional(01:11:19) - Leading with sustainability at Heinz(01:15:27) - INTEREST RATE ENVIRONMENT(01:17:40) - How to Balance Work, Family and Personal Well Being(01:20:55) - Marathon Real Estate Executive Advice(01:25:19) - What's the most fascinating part of the real estate industry? That(01:27:44) - Billboard Message: Growth(01:31:28) - A Mentee's Perspective on the Podcast

March 5, 20261 hr 40 min

Patrick Weeks: Underwriting Human Capital (#147)

Bio Patrick "Paddy" Weeks is co-author of The New Science of Hiring and VP of Operations at Tribunus Health. His career spans Marine Corps advisor teams in Afghanistan, Big Four consulting at Ernst & Young, and launching Sonder's DC market from Series B to 45 global markets and 2,000 employees. A Grove City College graduate and UVA Darden MBA, Patrick has spent five years synthesizing academic research on hiring into a practical framework for business leaders. The Blank Sheet of Paper Problem [2:58–7:00] Finance, operations, and economics are taught as sciences — but hiring is treated as art. Patrick's MBA sparked the question: where is the science of selection? That gap launched a years-long research obsession and ultimately, the book. From Midwest to Marine Corps [8:08–18:30] A soul-crushing Wall Street internship sent Patrick toward the Marines. Leading 20-man advisor teams through 125 convoys in Afghanistan taught him that pedigree matters far less than performance — a lesson that shaped every hire he'd ever make. Military to Civilian – The Career Jungle Gym [18:31–23:49] The transition from machine gun convoys to an E&Y cubicle was jarring. Patrick shares why he views careers less as ladders and more as jungle gyms — and how the GI Bill, a Darden MBA, and strategic "attribute swapping" helped him find his fit. Scaling Sonder – The Rocket Ship [31:21–40:55] As Sonder's first DC hire, Patrick scaled from 200 to 2,000 employees across 45 markets. He reveals what broke first (processes, always), what he hired for (high agency, low ego), and how a non-traditional banking hire became one of his best decisions. The Firing That Scarred Him [47:13–50:32] Patrick opens his book with his worst professional moment: terminating a new hire just three weeks in. He ignored his gut, deferred to group consensus, and paid the price. It became the catalyst for learning the actual science of selection. Proactive Personality & The Hustle Metric [1:02:45–1:10:16] For brokerage, BD, and PM roles, Conscientiousness is overrated. Proactive Personality — testable in a four-minute questionnaire — is the real predictor of who takes initiative without being told. Patrick explains why it's the moneyball metric real estate firms are missing. Time Kills Deals — In Hiring Too [1:18:47–1:25:44] Every day a process drags, you lose ~10% of your candidate pool. Decision accuracy tops out after 3–5 interviews. The "meet all the partners" gauntlet isn't rigor — it's diffused accountability. Integrity Testing, Simulations & AI Risks [1:10:42–1:18:21] Integrity testing delivers up to 4,000% ROI for on-site and PM roles. Work simulations outperform polished interviews. And training AI on past hiring data? You're just automating old biases — with new legal liability attached. Resources: The New Science of Hiring by Patrick Weeks & Joy Giles | thenewscienceofhiring.com  Connect: LinkedIn – Patrick Weeks Notable Quotes: "I learned one of the hardest lessons in leadership: never hire someone you don't believe in, just because everyone else said yes. Because when the hammer drops, you're the one swinging it." "If you don't have a system, you are the system." "Real estate is complex... You're not buying someone's past, you're buying their future when you hire." "After the fourth or fifth interview, you're not even changing your mind on any candidates. You're just going through the motions." "One thing I saw and lived myself is that there's not really a career ladder and I think my conclusion is more like a career jungle gym. There are many different paths you can take, allowing for directional ch... Chapters (00:00:00) - Icons of DCRE Real Estate(00:02:31) - In the Elevator With Patrick Weeks(00:04:22) - Why Talent Selection feels like the highest leverage problem in real estate(00:07:53) - Entrepreneurs: Growing Up in the Midwest(00:11:00) - Military service drives men to the military(00:13:13) - Marine Corps Officer in OCS(00:15:10) - Marine Corps Leadership: Character and Experience(00:20:07) - Post-Servicemember MBA Advice(00:23:50) - How to Improve Your Hiring Process(00:31:01) - In the Elevator With Airbnb's DC Market(00:33:32) - How to Get Out of the Startup Job(00:34:46) - What broke first as you scaled? Systems, people, culture(00:36:31) - What was your lens for hiring at that point(00:38:23) - Hiring Dissident Talent(00:40:57) - Decisions Made: Big Four Consulting to Tech Startups(00:46:58) - The New Science of Hiring(00:50:34) - Analytics and Hiring in Commercial Real Estate(00:51:52) - Should Matching Resume Screenings With Worksimulations Be Cons(00:58:20) - Incentives are critical for jobs(01:02:23) - Have You Got What it Takes to Build a Business?(01:04:58) - Proactivity in the Workplace(01:07:24) - Interviewing 101: Polish vs Authenticity(01:10:17) - Should Commercial Real Estate Firms Treat Integrity Testing as Primary Risk Management(01:18:33) - Time Kills Deals in Real Estate(01:20:25) - The 3-to-5 Interview(01:24:38) - Bradley: On-boarding the Right People(01:29:56) - What About Making A Mistake?(01:31:18) - Leadership Lessons from the Marine Corps, Startup Life(01:33:41) - Hiring Mistake No. 1(01:37:17) - A message from Real Estate's Phil Knight(01:38:50) - In the Elevator With Patrick Beaks

February 9, 20261 hr 49 min

Matt Hard: Betting on 2030: Pursuit Costs, Supply Shocks, and Market Cycles (#146)

Bio  Matt Hard is Senior Managing Director at Trammell Crow Residential (TCR). Previously worked at LCOR alongside his father Bill Hard (previous podcast guest), where he led complex urban developments including Union Market projects. Georgetown graduate (Political Science/English), JD/MBA from USC. Matt joined TCR in August 2020 during COVID while navigating family health challenges.  Show Notes  Introduction and Current Mandate [00:00:00-00:04:30] Matt's role at TCR and current strategy: tying up ground-up multifamily deals for 2029-2030 delivery, betting on supply constraints. Discussion of "untrended yield on cost" versus "trended yield" and underwriting challenges over two-year pre-closing periods.  Risk, Judgment, and Reputation [00:04:30-00:12:30] Managing $3-5M pursuit costs to closing. Timing as the uncontrollable variable in development. Preserving TCR's 75-year culture of integrity: "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should." Prioritizing reputation and repeat business over maximizing every dollar.  Family Legacy and Early Life [00:14:00-00:24:00] Growing up with Bill Hard, who left work at work and was "dad first." Maternal influence: high standards, humor, and grace during cancer battle. Georgetown liberal arts education. No early pressure toward real estate career.  Legal Background and Career Pivot [00:24:00-00:39:00] USC JD/MBA during 2008 crisis. Legal training teaching navigation of "gray areas" and corporate advocacy. Practicing 18 months before transitioning to principal side. Candid "nepotism" conversation joining father at LCOR, driven to "earn the chair."  The Learning Curve: LCOR Years [00:39:00-00:59:00] Construction as steepest learning curve—kept notebook of acronyms. Key deals: Union Market (complex Eden's partnership) and Moore Street (as-is acquisition teaching scrappy problem-solving). Lessons on institutional capital advantages versus entrepreneurial risk.  2020 Transition to Trammell Crow Residential [00:59:00-01:16:00] Joined TCR August 2020 amid intense personal crisis: mother's terminal cancer, wife's cancer diagnosis, COVID. Taking leadership role from Robbie Brooks. Contrasting LCOR's discretionary capital model with TCR's deal-by-deal capitalization and in-house GC advantages.  Corporate Identity and Market Philosophy [01:16:00-01:24:00] Clarifying Crow Holdings (private, family-held) versus Trammell Crow Company (CBRE subsidiary). Avoiding "illusion of self-dealing" with affiliated capital. Generational perspective: entering industry during 12-year bull run leading to potentially "rosy" underwriting.  Key Decisions and Market Outlook [01:24:00-01:39:00] Best deal not done: dropping two 2021 contracts saved seven-figure write-offs when market turned. Market correctly reading current stagnation but missing supply shock coming in 2026-27. Attainable housing challenges: DC regulatory demands suppressing supply despite affordability goals.  Future Trends and Advice [01:39:00-01:46:00] AI cautiously embraced for productivity but concerned about losing critical thinking and "human touch" in placemaking. Advice: "Execution is not a dirty word"—master unglamorous details (permits, utilities) to become credible dealmaker. Value attitude over aptitude; be relentlessly social.  Closing Thoughts [01:46:00-01:48:51] Billboard message: "Being right is not the same thing as being effective"—focus on goals, not proving correctness. Heartfelt tribute to father Bill and wife Alicia.    Chapters (00:00:00) - Icons of D.C. Commercial Real Estate(00:00:51) - Interviewing Matt Hard(00:02:42) - Idols of D.C. Real Estate: Matt Hard(00:03:33) - Travel Pro Residential Company's(00:04:54) - Reasons to Underwrite Residential Projects(00:06:51) - What decisions carry the most weight right now in your day to day(00:10:55) - What responsibilities do you have for the company's culture?(00:13:01) - Reputation and Client Experience(00:13:42) - A Taste of Trammel Crow Residential Firm(00:14:31) - Bill Crow on Growing Up in a Real Estate Family(00:18:34) - In the Elevator With My Dad(00:19:36) - No Expectations From Parents For Their Career Plans(00:21:30) - Georgetown Law Student Matt McDonough on His College Decision(00:27:15) - Post-MBA Law: Learning the Business of Law(00:28:22) - Post-Law School Advice(00:34:30) - Risk and Leverage in the Law(00:35:58) - How I Transferred From Real Estate to Law(00:38:54) - Making the transition from litigation to real estate(00:40:20) - The Steeper Learning Curve at Alcor(00:42:41) - The Importance of the Entitlements Process(00:47:30) - How the Elcor Deal Changed My Thinking(00:48:16) - Developers Discuss The Union Market Deal(00:52:19) - Mixed Use vs. Retail(00:56:00) - What Discipline Do You Need to Have On Civil and Utilities?(00:59:38) - Exploring Trammel Crow Residential's Union Market Presence(01:01:50) - Tim Wood on Leaving Covid(01:04:04) - Elcor Residential vs Trammel Crow Residential(01:10:18) - Executives on the Mack Truck Pipeline(01:14:17) - What part of Development or Capital is most misunderstood?(01:16:36) - Trammel Crow Residential and Crow Holdings(01:22:32) - Does Gen X Affect Your Underwriting?(01:28:39) - What Risk Did The Moore Street Deal Teach You?(01:30:07) - Cap Rates: Are We Only Reading This Moment?(01:32:03) - Affordable Housing and the Need for More Supply(01:35:54) - Will AI Help or Hurt the Money?(01:40:44) - Excellence in Development: Advice for New Professionals(01:46:24) - How to Manage a Business With Your Dad(01:46:49) - Being More Effective Than You Think(01:48:06) - A Few Words for the Chair

January 22, 20261 hr 57 min

Bill Norton- Boots on the Ground: Why Intuition Still Outperforms the Spreadsheet (#145)

Bio  Bill Norton serves on the Board of Directors for The Chevy Chase Land Company, chairing its Investment Committee. He retired from Northwestern Mutual Real Estate in 2015 after a 41-year career, including 22 years as Regional Director of the Washington D.C. office—the firm's largest, overseeing $9 billion across 13 states. Norton began in Northwestern's Detroit office in 1974 after earning his MBA from the University of Michigan. Known for construction-to-permanent loans and relationships with The Bozzuto Group, Boston Properties, and Macerich. Staunch advocate for "boots on the ground" philosophy.  Key Chapters  Introduction and Detroit Roots [00:00:00-00:04:30] Shared Detroit real estate history from 1979. Norton's fortuitous 1981 DC move, narrowly avoiding Detroit office closure.  Capital Steward Role [00:04:45-00:09:00] Chairing Chevy Chase Land Company Investment Committee. Shifting from deal-making to oversight, staying big picture focused.  Boots on the Ground Philosophy [00:09:00-00:15:00] Real estate remains physical. Truck terminal story where photos deceived but site visit revealed truth, proving digital data can't replace inspection.  Childhood and Education [00:15:30-00:22:00] One of eight children in Elmira, NY. 1972 flood devastation led to Michigan MBA scholarship.  Early Underwriting Era [00:22:10-00:29:30] Green spreadsheets, HP-12C calculators, dial-up connections, rotating fax machines. Pre-computer institutional real estate.  High-Interest Rate Crisis [00:29:45-00:38:00] "Disintermediation" when rates soared. Northwestern out of market 18 months, merged equity/mortgage groups.  Building DC's Largest Office [00:38:20-00:46:00] 22-year Regional Director tenure. Strategy: repeat business with trusted partners versus chasing deals.  Legendary Partnerships [00:46:15-00:55:30] First Bozzuto joint venture at Vienna Metro. $750M Tysons Corner financing with Macerich/Alaska Permanent Fund.  Early 90s Survival [00:55:40-01:05:00] "Stay Alive to '95" mentality. Working with Boston Properties, Charles E. Smith during turbulent years.  Office Conversions Reality [01:05:10-01:15:00] Skepticism on widespread conversions. Park and Ford success story. Wilco's 20th & L project. Floorplate/demand challenges.  Creative Deal Structures [01:15:00-01:30:00] Construction-permanent loans. Jersey City condo conversion. Second mortgage participations. Rate lock stories and relationship banking.  Working with Developers [01:30:00-01:45:00] Bozzuto relationship evolution. Fountains and free libraries. Julie Smith property management brilliance. Jersey City management deal.  Tysons Corner Deep Dive [01:37:00-01:42:00] Ted Lerner ground lease history. Macerich/Alaska partnership. Cross-easements complexity. Boston's most complicated deal.  Data Centers and Land Values [01:27:00-01:35:00] Lerner's Gainesville parcel: $300-400M for data center use. Technology risk concerns. Northern Virginia valuations. Small nuclear power questions.  Today's Bifurcated Market [01:33:00-01:40:00] Flight to quality. $100 triple-net new construction versus $40 older space. Mixed-use future. Trophy malls versus everything else.  AI and Human Judgment [01:43:00-01:50:00] AI's underwriting potential. The irreplaceable: understanding nuances, feeling properties, gut instincts. Wilson building example—smell, sound, presence matter.  Next Generation Wisdom [01:50:00-01:55:00] Learn tools: AI, finance, construction. But interpersonal skills trump everything. Join organizations. Maintain relationships. Avoid burning bridges.  Reclaiming Humanity [01:55:00-01:57:00] Billboard message: "Let's reclaim our humanity. Let's be truthful." Gratitude for 41-year career built on trust.  Chapters (00:00:00) - Idols of D.C. Real Estate(00:03:50) - Bill Norton on Washington D.C. Real Estate(00:05:25) - Brad Feld on His Role as Capital Steward(00:06:43) - Commercial Real Estate: Too Much Underwriting(00:08:27) - In the Elevating the Business of Trump(00:09:07) - Are We Too Fearful About Office-to-Residential Conver(00:10:13) - Exploring Office Conversion in Alexandria(00:14:25) - Commercial Conversion to Residential Building(00:15:40) - Bill Moyers on Growing Up in Elmira, New York(00:18:52) - Getting your degree during the flood(00:21:31) - Real Estate Profits at Michigan(00:23:53) - The professor who inspired me to get into real estate(00:27:16) - The Good Underwriting at Northwestern(00:28:01) - Mortgage Equity Deals at Northwestern Mutual(00:31:12) - Joint Ventures at Prudential(00:35:16) - What Was The First Real Estate Deal That Humbled You?(00:39:09) - Northwestern Mutual's Hotel Deals(00:39:50) - Washington Mutual Lending Group on Detroit's Growth(00:44:14) - Northwestern Mutual's Washington Real Estate Office(00:48:52) - Real Estate: Cash Flow, Capital Expenditures(00:52:56) - Copley's First Equity Relationship with Tom Bazzuto(00:56:54) - Real Estate: The Cycle(01:03:04) - What Differentiated Prudential from Goldman Sachs?(01:07:11) - One Loan Officer on Too Risky(01:10:37) - How Principal Mutual Underwrote Our Loan(01:15:07) - Mortgage Broker: The Rate Lock(01:21:08) - What's the Decision You Made That Hurt Your?(01:25:50) - Capital discipline versus entrepreneurial necessity in the real estate market(01:28:14) - Real Estate Profits(01:29:32) - The Valuable Land Near Dulles(01:32:18) - Will Office Mixed Use Be Overhyped?(01:35:31) - The Story Behind a Multifamily Development in Washington(01:39:45) - Macerich on the Eden Spot Property(01:43:00) - How AI Is Affecting Commercial Real Estate(01:45:13) - Real Estate: Human Feelings(01:48:01) - Paul Busuto on Pizzuto Property Management(01:52:51) - What Skills Should Commercial Real Estate Professionals Build?(01:55:19) - What Would a Billboard Say on the Capitol Beltway?(01:56:13) - A Farewell Message from Northwestern's Bill Fitz

December 22, 202540 min

Scaffolding, Ripples, and Load-Bearing Change (#144)

Bio  John C. Coe is the founder of Coe Enterprises, an advisory and content studio focused on strategic counsel for real estate and civic leadership. For over six years, he has hosted Icons of DC Area Real Estate, conducting thoughtful conversations with industry leaders. Previously, he founded the Iconic Journey in CRE, a nonprofit platform that fostered intergenerational dialogue and community building in the DC commercial real estate sector. As he prepares to relocate to New York's Hudson Valley in 2026, John reflects on structural transitions, legacy, and the difference between scaffolding that serves temporarily and foundations built to endure.  Key Chapters  Scaffolding: The Opening Metaphor [00:00:00-00:07:00] Opening with scaffolding wrapped around buildings—temporary structures enabling permanent growth. Gary Rappaport: "We don't build centers, we build Saturday morning memories." The Iconic Journey in CRE served as scaffolding, holding early confidence, vulnerable questions, and multi-generational dialogue. "Scaffolding is not an insult. It is a compliment of the highest order."  Ripples & Pebbles: Building Networks [00:07:00-00:11:00] Brad Olson: "You don't build networks, you toss pebbles and ripples do the rest." A personal story of an introduction that took five years to become a capital partnership. Brad tosses pebbles as an ethical posture, not a transaction. After enough ripples overlap, bridges form.  Bridge Builders: Carrying Load [00:11:00-00:17:30] "Bridges aren't neutral. They carry load." Tom Buzzuto: "People don't want luxury, they want dignity." Bridge builders absorb conflict, translate perspectives, prevent fractures before anyone knows a fracture was possible. Story of two DC leaders headed toward conflict, resolved by quiet presence. "Structural leaders think in load paths, not headlines."  Load-Bearing vs. Decorative Change [00:17:30-00:24:00] Bob Kettler: "The downturn doesn't change you, it reveals you." Contrast between decorative change (new branding, titles) versus structural change (clear decision authority, simplified reporting, accepted responsibility). Repositioning changes the story; shoring changes the structure. Personal transformation requires shifting from central to foundational roles.  Jane Jacobs & The Soul of Streets [00:24:30-00:28:00] Jacobs' insight: safety and vitality emerge from ground-up human presence through mixed-use development and the "sidewalk ballet" of daily life on thriving streets. Ray Ritchie: "You can't rush a neighborhood." "You can finance buildings, you can't finance belonging."  The Transition: IJCRE to Coe Enterprises & Station DC [00:28:00-00:34:00] Internal transition before external: shifting from center to foundation, from carrying weight to distributing it, from owning identity to stewarding legacy. IJCRE concludes its scaffolding purpose. Coe Enterprises emerges as John's advisory platform. Station DC, led by Sam Glass with "pro patria" ethos (for the good of place, profession, next generation), becomes the new framework. Sam's defining moment: "If we don't know who we're serving, the market will decide for us."  What Endures: Five Commitments [00:34:00-00:37:30] "People always ask what changes, but the wiser question is what doesn't?" Five load-bearing commitments: (1) ethical grounding, (2) relationship-first thinking, (3) intergenerational responsibility, (4) long memory, (5) service over supremacy. For listeners in their "load-bearing season": "You are being prepared for structural responsibility, not decorative accomplishment."  The Scaffolding Comes Down [00:37:30-00:39:40] Workers arrive, bolts loosen, platforms descend. What remains: "A building standing wholly on its own strength." IJCRE completes its purpose. Coe Enterprises refocuses. Station DC rises. Icons interviews resume 2026 at on... Chapters (00:00:00) - Icons of DC Area Real Estate(00:02:08) - Jane Jacobs and the Soul of DC(00:03:42) - What remains when the scaffolding comes down(00:07:49) - The Ripple of Bridges(00:14:25) - The Role of Bridge Builders(00:23:03) - What is Repositioning and Shoring?(00:25:05) - Jane Jacobs: The Death and Life of Cities(00:28:50) - The Iconic Journey in CRE: The Structural Shift(00:36:55) - What's Your Load Bearing Season?(00:38:28) - A Moment of Community Building at CO Enterprises

December 1, 20252 hr 39 min

Evan Goldman-Building EYA’s Enduring Legacy (#143)

Bio: Executive VP of Acquisitions and Development and part-owner at EYA. MBA from Wharton, Environmental Psychology training from Cornell. Led Pike & Rose development at Federal Realty before joining EYA to continue Bob Youngentob's vision. EYA's Evolution [00:00:01-00:06:31]: Goldman became EVP when he and partners became part-owners. Recent passing of Founder Bob Youngentob, who created sustainable long-term transition plan five years before illness. Goldman, Jack Lester, Akash Thakkar, and McLean Quinn are four of five owners. Time split: 1/3 acquisitions, rest development, focusing on vision, economic viability, and implementation. Core business remains townhomes (3-10 acre sites with high entitlement barriers), but dramatically expanded into commercial mixed-use, master planning, and substantial multifamily practice over 15 years. Origin & Education [00:09:34-00:23:45]: Grew up in Suffern, NY in economically unstable household with gambling father (Atlantic City trips as "vacations"). Turned to drawing/sketching houses as outlet and coping mechanism. Early hotel exposure sparked design fascination. Attended Cornell's Design Environmental Analysis program combining interior architecture with Environmental Psychology—studying how spaces psychologically affect people (McDonald's loud, hard-seated quick-turnover design vs. fine dining comfort). Small 11-person cohort provided mentorship and stability. Career Journey [00:23:45-00:35:48]: BBGM architecture firm → Mandarin Hotel competition (Tishman Speyer) loss convinced him developers drive key decisions → Russian Tea Room $30M renovation as VP of Design at 26 under perfectionist Warner LeRoy (briefly fired, then brought back with scholarship) → Wharton MBA → Tishman Speyer → Holiday Corp → Federal Realty. Advice for young professionals: Get lots of "reps" on different projects early. Leverage your strengths while staying multidisciplinary enough to ask right questions. Be bold, take calculated risks, "go first"—don't wait for permission. Pike & Rose [00:44:48-01:13:01]: Led Federal Realty's 24-acre Mid-Pike Plaza transformation (original Toys R Us site). Massive entitlement: 29M sq ft approved required 80+ community meetings in one year. Hired political organizers (Dewey Square) to combat opposition and build support through polling and targeted outreach. 2008 recession required phased approach with interim and ultimate plans. Collaboration with Don Wood, Street Works, Sandy Clinton, Paula Reese balanced vision with economics using Federal Realty's corporate debt advantage. Key insight: Retail knowledge and street-level activity are foundation for best mixed-use projects. Created Project Visioning Committee (PVC) meeting bi-weekly for Bob Youngentob knowledge transfer to next generation, ensuring design rigor. Goldman frequently asks "What would Bob do?" Key EYA Projects [01:18:55-02:37:01]: Montgomery Row: IBM office-to-residential in Rock Spring Park office park. Strathmore Square: Holy Cross Seminary partnership, first geothermal trial. McMillan Reservoir: 15-year effort with JAIR Lynch/Trammell Crow, city handled historic sand filtration restoration, 20-30% affordable housing, overcame legal challenges from external opponents. Graham Park Plaza: Loehman's Plaza retail conversion to attainable smaller townhomes (14-foot units at $600-650K). Robinson Landing: High-end Old Town Alexandria waterfront condos ($1,000+/sq ft), became largest archaeological dig on Eastern Seaboard after discovering three Revolutionary War ships—14-month work stoppage, $7M+ archaeology costs. Providence Reimagined: 25-acre hospital site requiring $30M demolition and complex utility replacement for operating medical office buildings. Competitive Edge: In-house construction company provides pricing structure competitors lack. Willing to ta...

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