Hard to Market

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Aug 2026

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On Hard to Market, we discuss the challenges marketing nuanced products and services in the B2B space. Guests include marketing leaders in diverse industries that have products or services that are tricky to sell. Expect to hear success and horror stories from the marketing front-lines on the very next episode of Hard to Market.

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August 24, 2026Episode 20329 min

Small Robots, Big Challenges: Inside the Art of Marketing Industrial Automation

Discover how Academic Industrial Robotics turns the complex world of micro automation into a cool, accessible, and marketable tech space, tackling marketing hurdles and uncovering the secrets behind small part automation success. Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of the Hard to Market Podcast. Why marketing industrial robotics is tougher than ever MicroAutomation: Automating tiny parts for big industries Overcoming space constraints with compact robotic arms Creative education & content over NDA challenges Lessons in collaboration & data-driven marketing strategies Resources: Mecademic Industrial Robotics Podcast Chef DevNoodle Connect with Sam El Falah: LinkedIn Connect with our hosts: Alex Garashchenko - LinkedIn Brian Mattocks - LinkedIn Quotables: 18:29 - I would say that is one of the hardest parts for us because of all the things around NDA. It's hard for us to do use cases. And one thing that we're slowly pivoting towards is kind of revitalizing the whole concept of a use case and maybe just call it like an application note. I know those exist, but for us, we refer to those as ways that we can incorporate the technical know-how of a systems integrator that knows our products well and just give us kind of like a step-by-step of how they created the automation without mentioning any industry or end user or customer. And so when those come into play, I find it super useful, especially during the sales cycle, because as humans, we really need to see it to believe it, right? And the proof is in the practice. 21:11 - One thing that really helped us is maximizing the complementarity of paid ads like retargeting as well as lookalike lists. So from the use cases that were very successful but not necessarily open to public, we tried to market and retarget companies that look like them or similar to them. So that was a lot of work that was done on the marketing side. I know usually prospecting is something that we see around sales, but more and more, you know, sales and marketing start to overlap one another. And so we definitely try to help as much as we can in terms of prospecting through what we already know 22:33 - As we're growing, maturing in who we are, we're understanding that, you know, having a voice towards 10,000 people might not always be as beneficial as the right 10. So we're trying to diversify. Coming from the banking and financial sector, I think any portfolio should be diversified, and marketing should also be seen the same way. So the more I diversify our initiatives in terms of prospecting, the more I can help better understand the audience that can really leverage are robotic solutions within their automation and/or production line. 29:11 - So I think that one of the challenges with a lot of this stuff is you get into situations where, like you said, everyone's got IP, and it's all locked behind legal paperwork and all that kind of stuff. It becomes difficult in a lot of cases to do marketing to say like, oh, yeah, we do this really cool thing where we put this chip inside this other thing. Because if it's involved in a defense system or if it's involved in, you know, somebody's proprietary product, you know, you run the risk of getting in trouble. So you can't even tell your whole story, which is problematic 37:21 - So make them, big proponents of AB testing. I would say the second one is, you know, always being on the forefront of the marketing landscape. I think the technical component, you have your SMEs for that. Just focus on making sure that you are your top expert within marketing. So whether it's webinars, newsletters, just be staying up to speed with what's out there, even if it's a trend. And then third component, I would say collaborating with all departments as much as you can, because surprisingly, a lot of them have very creative mindsets. So whether we're talking R&D, engineering, procurement, finance, a lot of great ideas have come for us when we do collaborate as a company-wide team. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

March 4, 2026Episode 20225 min

Mastering Networking: No Anxiety, Just Connections!

Dive into the networking know-how with Dalene Allen, your 'Connection Concierge,' as she unveils the secrets to building warm, genuine relationships that blossom into business opportunities. Bid farewell to awkward handshakes and monotonous elevator pitches as Dalene redefines networking with a touch of humanity. Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Transform networking anxiety into joy Strategic connections fuel business growth It's about relationships, not transactions Daily action plans lead to networking success Employ visual cues for engaging interactions Resources: Networking Naturally Podcast Chef Connect with Dalene Allen: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 03:06 - First of all, I believe looking to make a connection with another human being is if you like each other and trust each other. Business can happen organically. So if we take it from a different point of view, let me learn as much as I can about you, and how could I help you? It's a law of reciprocity. If I can help you, that's where the trust starts. And by looking at a relationship as opposed to transactional, you're gonna love your life a whole lot more. And I truly believe business will grow. You know, what you send out until the lives of others can come back tenfold. 11:42 - If you're a person that needs to network, but the very thought of it creates anxiety, get the focus off you and pretend every person in that room's got a sign around their neck that says, make me feel important. So here, here's a couple of tips. Get to the networking early, get to know the organizers. Guess what the organizer's trying to do? They're trying to introduce you to people. Then that's where I would go in, and I would say, help. I can help you set up, I can help do anything, but I'm paranoid about networking. Could you help me meet some people? And if they're the organizers and they don't do that, well, you're never going back to that networking event again, are you? 01:23 - If we look at it from curiosity point of view, that person in front of you learn as much as you can about them as a human being. Because if we've ever had to deal with a crappy client, if you got to know them as a human being first, we could likely save ourselves a lot of heartache or headache. And so I had a real fear when I started my first business of even handing out a business card. So I did everything wrong. And what I realized was I was willing because my goals and dreams were big enough to find a way that worked for me. Most people that fear never goes away. 08:25 - I was the worst networker in the whole wide world. I would be like a car dealer in Las Vegas and just throw cards at people. I'd collect them, and then I'd get home and say, why did I do that? To gain a little bit more of a strategic plan. But here's the other part, even reaching out on a social media platform that can be intimidating. But if we look at it from the other point, you know, in another way, they wouldn't have the website if they didn't wanna do business. 19:10 - Listening like a sponge, not a brick. Most people will ask a question, listen until they can get their word in. That's not what it's all about. And so one of the sweetest things you can say is if somebody starts talking, you say it now that was interesting. Tell me more. And that person suddenly it's like doors open, shoulders go down. Because if you're really sincere, just that little thing they've opened up, not a lot, but it's like the segue into Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

February 13, 2026Episode 20124 min

Steering Success: A Small Biz Growth Masterclass

Dive into the challenges of marketing with Loralyn Mears from STEERus! Uncover the art of balance as we explore her journey from burnout to brilliance, helping businesses shine online, snag grants, and gear up mid-level managers for the top. Tune in for her transformative tales and practical advice that could steer your business to success! Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Small Biz Visibility is Key Overcome Overwhelm with Strategy Grants: Lifting Businesses Higher Adaptive Leadership for Managers Podcasting as a Marketing Tool Resources: SteerUs Podcast Chef Connect with Loralyn Mears: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 03:50 - Brian: That's normally the way it works. Right? It's never a direct line to success. It's always much more of a search algorithm, a much more of a spiral pattern. Loralyn: Yes. Downward spiral being a lot of it, but yes. And then now I'm spiraling up. I've got it. 'cause it's really the messaging is now really more clear. It's helping people get seen and get paid. And what does that mean? Well, if you're a mid-level manager that everybody's overlooking or you're not getting along with your staff, well, you need to get seen, right? And do all of these things differently so that you get promoted or keep your job. 17:14 - It's so much easier to fix other people's problems rather than your own always plus, right? The cobbler's children has no shoes, right? Because we're always fixing everybody else's thing. So like, my website sucks, but everybody else's that I do looks really good. And that's a whole other thing. 15:11 - The cost of change is often not measured in dollars. It's often measured in organizational fatigue. It's measured in all sorts of the emotional cognitive expense work that isn't easy. It's the same as going to the gym in a lot of these kind of environments where it's like you have to do the, you know, you have to lift the weights, nobody can do it for you. And so you have folks that come in in the small business space, and very often they wanna buy their way out of a problem. And it's like, no, you exercised your way into this problem, you're gonna need to exercise your way out of it. And that creates a very, very difficult dynamic. 17:29 - I think it's the state of overwhelm. I think you talked about change, that there is a cost. Mentally, people aren't ready. They know that they need to make change, but it's too much because they've got to change everything on every axis. Right? It's like that movie, first it was only a little bit, and then everything all at once. And it really does become overwhelming, and it's all-consuming, and people just don't have, not even the, the financial capital, which of course is a constraint. You look at the number of small business loans, and two-thirds of small businesses are subsisting on loans. But you look at just the mental energy, it's too much. 23:29 - The third thing I would say on go to market is don't get so hung up on the perfection. It's gotta be 99.99% perfect. I really like this. No, I like this image a little better. Let's craft this. Hmm, that post isn't quite right. Just do it. I really believe Wayne Gretzky greatest hockey player of all time, although Alex mentioned, is like taken over. But that's another story, and good for Ovechkin, but Wayne Gretzky said famously, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And so that's what I say, don't wait till you're 99.99, 80% is good enough. Get it going. See if it works, test it, try it, refine it. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

January 21, 2026Episode 20040 min

Elevating Experts to Market Dominance with Ann Carden

Discover the secrets to propelling your expertise-driven business to new heights with Ann Carden on the Hard to Market Podcast. Dive into transformational strategies that go beyond basic branding, leverage your full potential, and harness high-level marketing to close major deals and amplify your influence. Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Elevate beyond entry-level offerings Specialization should be market-specific Leverage assets to build client relationships Avoid the "one-trick pony" approach to business Premium market strategies drive bigger profits Resources: Expert In You Marketing & Media Podcast Chef Expert In You Podcast Connect with Ann Carden: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 18:14 - McKinsey and Deloitte have said that like the consulting and the professional service industry is going to hit trillions of dollars in the next two years, in 2026 and 2027. But they also said that the premium market is going to be where the real opportunity is which is great news for me because that's where I help people play, right? So I'm like, oh, yes, sounds good. This great. Finally, now it's not a want anymore. Now it's a need, right? If you wanna stay relevant in the market, go high. 38:33 - Brian: What are the three biggest takeaways that you've picked up in your journey so far? Ann: The three biggest takeaways is get help from someone that can move you faster, really move you forward faster because business is not waiting any longer and it is, you really will become irrelevant very quickly if you are trying to DIY things. So that would be the first thing. A lot of people think they can DIY it, they can get the information, but information doesn't equate to being able to do it. So that's where I believe everybody now needs help because things are moving at warp speed. It's, it's just not like the old days. Right. Yeah. The second thing I would say, especially with AI coming onto the scene, is don't think AI can do it all for you. 32:49 - It goes beyond just their online presence, but everything that we do is to drive revenue. So a lot of people start a podcast to put out value, to put out content that's not what we do. There's a more strategic approach in the way we utilize those assets so that they are either working through the people they're having on their show. To get to the right people, or they are actually interviewing the people on their show that could be clients for them or could be referral partners for them. 11:45 - I am such a proponent of specializing, but a lot of people do it the wrong way, Brian, and this is, this is the problem. When people say the riches are in the niches, that doesn't mean you only show up with a portion of your value, because that's how you put yourself in a beginner category. 23:34 - There was such a gap in the market. I call it the elevation gap. You've got startup and getting good at what you do over here, and then you've got scaling. Nowhere in the middle is anybody closing the gap, right? So people are jumping over the elevation phase in business. They're not, they're not going as high as they can. And then scaling that, they're trying to scale what they first did or what they originally did. And that's why they end up. A lot of the clients that I work with have tried to scale, and they have found they're unfulfilled. They, they're working with clients beneath their skillset. They don't feel like their value is really being seen or appreciated. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

October 28, 2025Episode 19927 min

Digital Marketing Convo with Luke Eccles

Dive into the dynamic world of digital marketing with the self-taught maestro Luke Eccles on this episode of "Hard To Market Podcast". From the roots of social media marketing to the blossoming tree of AI integration, Luke shares insights on authentic content, niche marketing, and the beauty of learning through failure. Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Luke's journey from MySpace to SEO The blend of IT and marketing expertise Localizing marketing strategies for impact Content with personality wins audiences Embracing AI while keeping it authentic Resources: Red Bearded Marketing Podcast Chef Connect with Luke Eccles: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 08:30 - Luke: So one of the things I've really always pushed since I started was I would say I'm a unique individual. Brian: Why Luke? Why would you say that? Luke: Yeah. But I feel like everybody's unique. Everybody has like, their little quirks, their little things about their personality, and content is one of those things where when you get really good at doing your content, that personality starts to seep into it. And sometimes it makes it the best content because it's surrounded by your personality. So I think that's one of the things I've really honed in on and really pushed with my clients is what are you into what. 06:20 - And most marketers are like, well, I can only really help you with this part, and like right here. Whereas, think of it like a spider web. I kind of understand, and I handle everything surrounding it. And I think that really plays off with the questions I ask my client. 'Cause when people come to me, they sometimes have an idea of what they need or they think they know, they know what they need. Sometimes they're right. Sometimes it's like the inkling of what they should know, but sometimes they think they need “A” and they actually need “F” You know, and I think having that diverse background of different services and different parts of the digital marketing field allow me to kind of say, okay, well yeah, like this is something that maybe we should, we should just do right now really quick. But like SEO is what you really need. 24:18 - Be prepared and be excited to fail. I think one of the things that we overlook when somebody screws up or fails is like, how do you learn usually by failing, usually by screwing up. And, that's, I mean, like I said, that's how I learned web design. It was a, you go in, how do I do this? Google, okay, is there a video for it? Watch the video. And then you do it, and sometimes you mess up. Sometimes you've had some bad customer interactions where, you know, maybe you weren't completely wrong, but you know, like, you know you messed up a little bit. Or like, there's something new that you didn't know about, and they get pissed that you didn't know that. And it's like, like again, like I said, there's no open source, streaming, saying like, all right, this is what's going on in our industry. This is how you do it. It's like you mess around and find out, and sometimes, you know, like you're gonna fail, and sometimes it's gonna be really bad. And how you rebound from that and how you learn from that. I think that really pushes right into that topic of how you expand, how you learn. 22:05 - It's people that are looking at it as like a negative thing. Like, you, you can take that approach, but you're just gonna get steamrolled. And everybody's like, the people that learn how to use it for their industry are gonna exceed. They're gonna way beyond everybody else. That's not. So if your industry is using AI, learn it, it's two years from now, this is going to kind of be like the conversation. Like you remember in 2014 when like the older guys were like, yeah, I don't do that email stuff. I don't do that internet stuff. Where are they now?Brian: Yeah, yeah. Luke: You know, it's like, it's like the transition from radio to tv. It's just, it happened, and all those disc jockeys were done. 19:54 - Luke: Ot's still the same principle. It's just that we were playing with a gun before, now we're playing with a nuclear, you know, a nuclear bomb. Right. You know, AI is, it's insane what we're gonna be able to do. Brian: So apart from the capacity side though, it's also flooding the sort of marketplace of ideas with content, and then differentiations harder and harder. Because again, just the volume of signal out there, you know, the volume of noise to signal is so, so much higher. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

June 12, 2024Episode 19824 min

The Global Seller's Playbook: Amazon Success with Andrew Morgans

Dive into entrepreneurship across continents as we chat with Andrew Morgans, a marketing expert with a mission. From a childhood in Africa to pioneering Amazon’s selling space, Andrew’s tale is nothing short of inspiring. Tune in for a masterclass on building brands, adapting strategies, and connecting through commerce. Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Born in Africa, raised by missionaries. Dislike networking job, joined a startup. Grew toy company sales by millions. Top 10 world marketers on Upwork. Pioneered services side of Amazon selling. Resources: Marknology Podcast Chef Connect with Andrew Morgans: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 15:38 - And so whenever they get clients and they're looking for a larger agency or a partner to do some of the other work or things like that, I've just spent a lot of time creating great relationships there. I feel like that's what I brought to the table outside of being kind of a, just a geek around this stuff was relationship building growing up that way. Growing up the way I grew up is like relationships are everything. It's kinda what I was taught and I just leaned on that. I didn't definitely, I knew zero entrepreneurs when I started this journey. I zoom, I knew zero business people when I started this journey. 23:29 - I thought I knew yesterday, I don't know today, you know, we've had pandemics happen, we've had inflation happen, we've had new presidents, we've had all different types of stuff happening that just changes the temperature of your customers, the changes, the temperature of your buying platform and you have to be able to adjust and just, you know, try new things. 21:52 - Whenever you're first learning out to market, you just think like through the lens of you, you know? And if that can help you in your first idea, maybe your second idea about, as you start adding hundreds of brands or projects that you're working on, you have to quickly realize that you are not the target market of all times. And you can't always think like you do. So take a step back. A lot of times when you're thinking about a project, if you're helping somebody else or doing your own, there's a big difference. Marketing number one, marketing number two, keep it fresh and don't get stale. 13:37 - It's been a great way to grow and market my business and it's changed, it's pushed me to do podcasting and things like that as well as, you know, learning B2B marketing or B2B message is different than being amazing at Google PPC or Amazon ads or, you know, whatever it is. it's been iterations of websites. It's been tons of partner networking. 06:11 - There’s more voices out there in the business community saying this is the truth. This is what you should be doing, this is the future of business. This is e-commerce. Amazon is not going anywhere. Amazon can make you have a profitable business. You can tell your brand story on Amazon. Amazon isn't just gonna cannibalize your website. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

May 22, 2024Episode 19724 min

Mastering Influencer Marketing: Glewee's Dynamic Approach

Dive into the influencer cosmos as Christian Brown unpacks Glewee's journey, a platform marrying creativity with commerce. Discover the art of attracting creators, working with brands, and the potent strategy that skyrocketed their user base by 900%. Tune in for a reveal of the top marketing lessons from Glewee's playbook! Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Strategy for a dual-sided market. Achieving success with tailored outreach. Enhancing creator engagement through gamification. Maintaining equilibrium between influencers & brands. Scaling mass reach without payment barriers. Resources: Glewee Podcast Chef Connect with Christian Brown: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 22:14 - My next thing is be very true to who you are and what your team is. We've learned this quite a long ways down the road is that brands want to come to us, not only because we have a social media platform, but because we know social media and us as a founding team and as a team of mentors and leaders within our company, what we preach and what we speak to our brands and to our users is what we want the best for everybody. And so I think that there's such genuine intent with what we do. 03:11 - So with the double-sided marketplace, when we once had this platform ID on sticky notes, prelaunch, pre-beta, pre-anything, we thought with the question how are we gonna crack the chicken and egg? And we thought about it and we said, well we were 22 and 21 at the time when we first launched the platform. And we said, well let's leverage what we have. We have our network, we've worked with hundreds of creators already and we understand what creators and influencers want out of a platform. They want to be able to track their stats, they want to be able to see how much money they can make, they wanna apply for more campaigns and they wanna work with more brands to create these posts and get paid. 18:51 - I think what it was, was the interest in activity on site. And so we have our platform that we obviously have our website and we call it the mother site. And we were getting so much activity on site and so many different clicks and views to our education guides, YouTube videos and that world around like what Glewee means from an influencer marketing perspective. That to us, the only way to actually count that as what we would think is like part one of a conversion is getting them into a demo form. And these brands, these businesses, these social media marketers, these startup founders were saying, I want to do a demo. 11:04 - In the middle, there's agencies that do this on behalf of clients that really have their own tech to power it in the backend. So not true SaaS. And then at the bottom was not many true SaaS platforms. And so we looked at it and we said, well we can play in the legacy brand landscape and the very competitive market where competition has teams of fifty to a hundred BDRs SDRs AEs built out with their sales program. And we tried to emulate something like that and it was one of the greatest learning experiences ever because that was definitely the first time that we were uber-challenged and nearly truly stumped in acquisition. And so with that, we went from just getting people interested in our platform to very quickly having to set up our CRM. 06:42 - Brian: And for folks listening that have an environment where you have the chance to screen your clients in that way, I think that's a really powerful strategy. What are the drawbacks of that though? Are there any, are there any issues with hitting that many people in and then telling them they have to apply? How is that working? Christian: Yeah, as a marketer I think I've learned an immense amount through this program in specific, 'cause they most definitely don't teach you this at the university level, how to actually build these email programs, how to execute at mass scale, how to identify not only your market but qualifications within the market. 'cause yeah, we want creators and influencers to join our platform, but there's a benchmark that they need to hit. There have been a bunch of drawbacks, you know, ebbs and flows. We've seen tons and tons and tons of creators that respond back or even just reach out to us Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

May 14, 2024Episode 19622 min

Rebecca Spills the Beans on Marketing & Growth

Dive into the vibrant world of startup marketing with Rebecca Fulton from Kliken. Discover the agility of startup culture, the art of crafting a brand's identity, and the intricacies of channel partnerships in this episode that’s packed with insider insights and strategies for fostering business growth. Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Flexibility in startup marketing. Crafting a brand's identity. Tackling channel partnership growth. Overcoming marketing challenges. Insights on content strategy. Resources: Kliken Podcast Chef Connect with Rebecca Fulton: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 08:42 - Our CEO has been really instrumental in fostering those channel relationships and the partnerships throughout the years. So he's really kind of the frontline for that conversation. But we also, we have meetings or emails either weekly, monthly, quarterly with a lot of our business partners and say, okay, well what are you hearing that your customers need? How can we help that solution? Are you hearing that they need something we're not providing? And so we honestly are very interactive and we communicate a lot with our partners to make sure that what we're offering is solving a problem versus just assuming that everything is good as is. 20:47 - And the third thing is not to spread yourself too thin. Again, there are a thousand different ways to market something. Don't try and do every shiny new platform that's out there. Don't try and make every type of content that is possible. I'm personally more of a content marketer than anything else, and I've learned that trying to create content that is more spread thin than, you know, very helpful, is kind of the downfall. So know where you want it, know who your audience is, know the type of content that they want and don't, and don't be everything to everyone. 04:36 - And I found that if you go to the employees or the executives and say, okay, this is what I found. This is the trend that I see. These are the issues that I think that we can solve for, very easily. And this is kind of our low hanging fruit. It's very simple to get them all on board. The question, the more taxing problem, I suppose is that sometimes it's how we message it after that. So it's not as hard to get people on board with saying, okay, yeah, I agree that these are our problems or these are the things we can work on, or these are the things that are our strong suits. 11:31 - I would say that a majority of our business comes direct from those channel partnerships. And that's again, because we built our business working with channels. We built our business working with partners and making sure that we had a solution that they could use for their customers. So that is why a majority of what we've always done has been part of channel. Now the direct-to-market stuff is growing. As I mentioned, click and ads is a newer product. It's only been out on the market for less than a year. And so I expect that that will grow significantly over time. 05:32 - Rebecca: It's more of how do we then move forward and kind of adjust messaging or, you know, shift if we need to. Brian: So now you're working at Kliken and so what makes that business kind of hard to market? Rebecca: So Kliken is an online marketing platform. The thing that makes it hard to market is that it's an online marketing platform. There are a lot of them out there. People are often very confused as to who to choose, should they go with an agency? What's the difference between agency and a DIY platform, which is essentially what we are. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

May 7, 2024Episode 19522 min

Sales Secrets Revealed: Thriving in a Saturated Market

Dive into the crowded world of marketing with FiveRings Marketing's CEO, Shaheem Alam. Get insider tips on standing out, offering full-service marketing from cold calls to SEO, and selling in a tech-saturated landscape. If you're navigating a noisy market or craving marketing ingenuity, this episode is your playbook for success! Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Tackling a saturated market. Unique full-service agency approach. Crafting a robust go-to-market strategy. The power of cold outreach. Evolving sales processes & positioning. Resources: FiveRings Marketing Podcast Chef Connect with Shaheem Alam: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 03:06 - One thing is just with our service offerings, I'm not gonna say the only there, there might be more out there, but I haven't come across an agency right now that's doing full service, meaning we do the outbound sales stuff, your cold calling, cold emailing, LinkedIn prospecting, providing BDRs, SDRs, that kind of service. And then also doing inbound, you know, PPC, LinkedIn ads, Google Ads, SEO, content marketing. 01:32 - Brian: What makes your business difficult to market? Shaheem: Got it. I think what makes our business difficult to market is the fact that there are tons of other agencies out there that are doing something similar or doing the same thing or doing bits and pieces of what we're doing. So there's a lot of competition 14:25 - Shaheem: So that's like the first challenge that they come with is like, they need conversations, they need sales meetings. The other thing, which is something that they don't realize, which I'm starting to have more and more conversations with our clients about is while they think that if they get 15 meetings per month, they're gonna close, 20% of them, 30% of them, and then they're gonna get the revenue and they're gonna close these deals in two, three months and they're gonna hit their series A and it's all gonna be, you know, according to plan. Brian: Sunshine and rainbows. 12:11: I think PLG requires like a community, a strong presence online, right? Like a lot of that kind of stuff. A lot of buying from a community. And most startups that we work with don't have that. Like, we don't actually come across PLG being a very like, common tactic that like, that's being employed. We have had clients where they do use it because they had an open source product. And they have a huge community built out of that. We have other clients that will come and they had like, Hey, inbound is working really well because they just figured out ads really, really well. But you need all channels humming still, right? So even if you have your community or you have your inbound ads or organic or your referrals or whatever, you still need that outbound component because this is a channel again. And you wanna, ideally, as you grow, have all channels. 17:32 - We have some documents we share with them too, to creating like a good discovery call, and then what's your next step? Advising them on what that next step should be, and then what should, what it should follow up with afterwards, how to follow up to keep moving these leads along your funnel. So we advise our clients and provide them with some guidance around that. Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult

April 30, 2024Episode 19423 min

Unlocking Hard-to-Market Success: Garrett Hammonds' Digital Marketing Triumphs

Dive into the marketing mind of Garrett Hammonds! From teacher aspirations to a marketing maestro, Garrett unravels his journey and spills secrets about standing out in digital marketing. Discover B2B success, conference ROI, and crafting relationships that convert. Get your notepads ready! Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. From teaching to marketing guru. Niche focus in digital marketing. ROI tracking in corporate events. Relationship building in B2B. Tools & insights for marketing success. Resources: Nomadic Marketing + Software Podcast Chef Connect with Garrett Hammonds: LinkedIn Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Quotables: 08:38 - We didn't need something as large scale like a Salesforce or you know, a larger plan on something like a HubSpot. So ActiveCampaign helps us be able to automate what we need to keep people flowing through the pipeline. And that's where we keep up with the lifetime value as well. Other things that we use as tracking measures, we do use Zoom Info as a tool. So we know if companies that we have been keeping up with have visited our website, connects up perfect to GA IV and actually passes those parameters into the reports that we can have there. And then we also use Mixpanel. That one's gonna be just kind of a secondary backup to some of our other tracking. So if something ever goes down, we have mixed panel that can, you know, kind of act as a act as another system to pull in. 11:47 - Being a digital marketing agency, we have some different ways in which, you know, we've pulled in clients through free Google Ads audits and you know, there's all kinds of different pathways that we employ. But I think at the heart of all of that, even when looking at any kind of digital piece, it's always gonna need to come back to a core objective of how can I connect with these businesses, these business owners, the people, the humans on the other side, and really listen to the needs that they have and are we a good fit for helping them? And that's where that relationship piece comes in. 10:14 - Garrett: Most of the ones we've gone to have been a big success though. But we've gone to specific industry conferences for the verticals that we serve. So staying away from more general professional conferences and going to very, very specific industry vertical conferences. Brian: So you're using those conferences to nurture relationships, you're continuing to grow the referrals you already had and you're increasing your lifetime value for your current client base. And I think that's like,as a three-legged stool, that's a really a great approach. 17:45 - Other clients, people are just searching for very, very specific things on search engines you know, finding a very specific industry publication, we've crossed over at times with traditional marketing and magazine things. It really just depends and it's really important for anybody who's trying to market their business to know your market and what it looks like and know your audience. And it's gonna be one of my, one of my big themes that you may hear from me that, that relationship that links back to knowing your audience. 20:22 - It's central because the audience at the end of the day, drives demand and their needs, whether they are always initially aware of them or not, their needs are the thing that is going to make it to where you can actually provide solutions for them. Not make sales, but offer solutions. And I think that's key as well, knowing your skills and your tools. One of the most foundational things that have helped me grow in my career has been this one, knowing tools. I didn't of course graduate with a marketing degree Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks: LinkedIn Email Schedule a Free Podcast Consult