From A to B

Hosted by Shiva Manjunath

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Jun 2026

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Conversations with interesting people across the digital marketing spectrum about all things experimentation.

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June 3, 2026Episode 641 min

Ethics of Fake Door Testing ft. Jon Crowder

Are fake door tests ethical? We are super purposefully kinda misleading people to see if something is worth building.... (cue Wile E. Coyote reference). Jon "Metal as Fuck" Crowder had a SUPER interesting post about the ethics of fake door testing, which I had to have him on the pod to discuss this topic. But we also got into a more broader conversation around ethics of A/B testing too!We got into:- Are fake door tests truly ethical? (Or legal...?)- Should there be a 'board of ethics' for A/B testing? (yes. kinda)- Jon's philosophy around CRO (and how it's influenced by his ethics)Go follow Jon on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jc-awip/And check out his website: https://www.anotherwebispossible.co.uk/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

May 13, 2026Episode 540 min

How LLMs Change Your Website Strategy ft. Juliana Jackson

Juliana "Run the Jewels" Jackson is someone who I consider a thought leader in the AI/digital marketing space, and I needed her POV on how to understand the impact of LLMs to user behavior. So I had her on the pod. And she shared some insightful information into how LLMs actually work, how it's meaningfully (or maybe not so meaningfully) changing behavior, and what you should be doing about it. (PS vote for me for a thought leadership award for Kameleoon https://tinyurl.com/voteforshiva)We got into:- How LLMs are evolving user behavior on your site, and what you really should be focusing on (spoiler: it's not what you think...)- Are we putting too much confidence in AI? (and how do we right-size it)- How LLMs are free research for you (and how to utilize it better)Go follow Juliana on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliana-jackson/And subscribe to her newsletter (it's amazing): https://julianajackson.substack.com/ Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

April 15, 2026Episode 437 min

Building Testing Culture Beyond A/B Testing ft. Jenni Bruckman

Are manipulation and bribery the keys to building a culture of experimentation?No. (Well, maybe)Jenni "Broadway" Bruckman (Director of Digital Product at YETI) joined this week to help broad the topic of building "cultures" which foster data-driven thinking and experimentation. It's different than focusing on explicitly building a culture of experimentation, in that your goal is to basically build a culture of fun, transparency, and engagement. The testing and data comes naturally from there!We got into:- Tips on navigating stakeholders (especially in a remote-first workplace)- Better ways to run meetings and tell stories with data-The value of your personal brand in scaling testing programsGo follow Jenni on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennibruckman/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

March 18, 2026Episode 339 min

Testing Tools: Build? Or Buy? ft. Jonas Alves

A/B testing tools - all they do is randomize traffic. So why are we spending thousands of dollars for it? Jonas "Elvis" Alves (of AB Smartly) joined the pod to discuss some of the major challenges in building A/B testing tools. It kinda started in a way I had no idea it would - that you're not buying a testing tool, but buying a... trust platform? Jonas throws some shade at other testing tools, but I bleep it out, don't worry ;) . (And thankfully, he doesn't sales pitch at all. )We got into:- Jonas makes the case for BOTH building in-house and buying an external tool- How to earn back trust once it's broken, through data or experimentation- Booking.com ran A/B tests on A/B testers (it's super meta and super cool)Go follow Jonas on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonasalves/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

February 11, 2026Episode 235 min

Where Are The Ethics In Experimentation?! ft. AJ Long

Is 'ethics' something we've undervaluing when it comes to experimentation? Should we actually care about this nerd stuff of 'ethics'?!Well, yes. Obviously. AJ "Does No Wrong" Long joined Shiva to chat about this specifically, as someone who works in the fantasy sports realm of things, ethics can be a contentious subject. We got into:- Why "users first" is really the only way to foolproof ethnical experimentation (and low-key, the only great way to run a business long term) - How PrizePicks fosters 'responsibility' in fantasy sports (really cool things they're doing there)- How to set (and enforce) guardrails in programs. Which is stupidly important in experimentation, when people want to break it down and hack it as much as possibleGo follow AJ on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/angusjlong/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

January 14, 2026Episode 142 min

How to Remove Emotion from Data Analysis ft. Gerda Thomas

Emotion in data analysis, from what we've been told, should never happen. But the kicker - humans are humans. We use emotions in literally everything we do. So how do we channel it best to make sure we are positively impacting the business?Gerda "The koala" Thomas joined Shiva to chat about this topic. Where does it make sense to channel emotion? In getting EXCITEMENT about testing, and ideas! But maybe we park it when actually analyzing tests, because that can lead to bad analysis. We got into:- The good (and bad) about data. Because sometimes a hyper-fixation on certain data leads to dark patterns and bad UX- Emotion can actually be GOOD in building a culture of experimentation (well, some emotions....sometimes)- Is 'hiring culture' really THAT important to getting people involved in data? (yes....yes it is)Go follow Gerda on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerdathomas/Go check out her company, Koalatative:https://koalatative.com/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

December 19, 202543 min

Will Trust in AI Die in 2026? ft. Slobodan Manić (CRO After Dark)

Slobodan Manić and Shiva Manjunath join another episode of #CRO after dark to discuss their trends in 2026, what will die, what will live, and how Better Call Saul is definitely better than Breaking BadGo check out his second best podcast No Hacks (https://www.nohackspod.com/)

December 10, 2025Episode 1853 min

Experimentation and CRO - Simplified ft. Rommil Santiago

Don't know what the hell CRO and experimentation is? Trying to understand the basic concepts and process? We gotchu. Rommil "The Thrill" Santiago and Shiva Manjunath went into all the common topics, and we can even help you explain this to others who might not fully understand what you do in CRO. Please passive aggressively share this episode to people who don't understand CRO. I will fall on my sword for you. We got into:- Why CRO is seen as a Hail Mary (and why it SHOULDN'T be....)- CROs shouldn't exist. Because everyone should be doing CRO in some way- What the hell MDE really even is? And do you even need it? (Yes....yes you do)Go follow Rommil on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/rommil/Go check out his book:https://www.experimentnation.com/prove-it-or-lose-itSign up for Experiment Nation (I'm there... he's there too I guess): https://www.experimentnation.com/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

November 12, 2025Episode 1145 min

What CMOs Really Care About ft. Kelly Hopping

Have you ever struggled to get buy in from senior leadership? Never in your entire life, right?Well I've faced it. A lot. And I wanted to get in the mind of a super seasoned CMO to truly understand what makes them tick. What they care about. What they DON'T care about. Who better than Kelly Hopping, CMO at Demandbase. And y'all, this one is CHOCK FULL of amazing insights from her to better understand how to communicate what you're doing to senior leadership. This was the first episode I listened to twice, just to make sure I got everything down. We got into:- How to translate OKRs into what you do in experimentation / product (to help you actually get buy in)- What CMOs (and senior leadership) ACTUALLY cares about (and what you're messaging to them is irrelevant to them)- AMAZING career advice from her on how to pivot in your career appropriately- Why leadership challenges A/B testingGo follow Kelly on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyhopping/Go check out her podcast "NextGen CMO": https://www.demandbase.com/podcasts/nexgen-cmo/Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

October 1, 2025Episode 1651 min

Tips for Getting Clients Who Don't Suck ft. Tas Bober

Finding clients is hard enough - finding GOOD ones? Feels damn near impossible. I enlisted the help of Tas Bober to help navigate this complex field of getting client work, and explored topics related to CRO/client work as well!We got into:- Bringing confidence to the client relationship (you don’t always have to cave in to EVERY little freaking thing they want you to do)- Running from bad clients when they don’t pass the vibe check (and how to find shitty clients BEFORE they pay you)- How to talk to clients (and stakeholders) appropriately without talking DOWN at them (hint: treat them like they’re children. It works.)Timestamps:00:00 Episode Start4:12 Detecting Client Red Flags BEFORE Signing A Contract With Them8:46 What To Do When A Client Gives You The ‘Ick’16:07 Importance of Setting (And Enforcing) Boundaries20:30 Setting Success Metrics for Engagement Upfront29:46 When “Leading With Data” Doesn’t Make Make Sense…?46:20 Tas’ BIGGEST Pro Tip (Don’t Just Skip To This Timestamp Ya Leetches)Go follow Tas Bober on LinkedIn:⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tasbober/ ⁠Go check out her podcast "Notorious B2B": https://www.linkedin.com/company/notorious-b2b/posts/⁠Also go follow Shiva Manjunath on LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shiva-manjunath/⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content!⁠⁠https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/