Finding Nature

Hosted by Nathan Robertson-Ball

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120

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Jun 2026

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About the show

Find inspiration and guidance for the change you want to create and learn how others have achieved it in their life and work in pursuit of a more just, safe and healthier future. Nourishment for the change making class.

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June 16, 2026Episode 1211 hr 38 min

Imagining And Making A Whole New Human World - Katherine Trebeck On The Pursuit Of Economics As Just A Means

Today’s guest is Katherine Trebeck. Katherine is a political economist, writer and advocate for economic system change and from when I saw her speak at the end of 2024 I knew I wanted to spend some time learning directly from her. She’s the Economic Change Lead at The Next Economy, Strategic Advisor to the Centre for Policy Development and member of the Club of Rome. She teaches at the University of Edinburgh and is a Distinguished Visitor at the Australian National University. Katherine also co-founded the Wellbeing Economy Alliance, spent eight years at Oxfam where she developed their Humankind Index plus co-authored the book The Economics of Arrival. If there is anyone anywhere to talk to about changing our current economic paradigm, Katherine is certainty it.And that’s exactly why I wanted to speak with Katherine - to understand the plausibility and potentiality of economic systems change, and what that would mean for myriad issues our society currently faces. Paradigm shifting is a very long way from being an easy feat, especially when the obstacles to change posed by vested interests and powerful individuals and groups are all on show in our world right now. From blatant billionaire interference in Australia’s media and political systems to the structures that keep locked in regimes that harm people and planet, the time for large-scale change - maybe even whisper it, revolution - seems increasingly palatable for many. Katherine’s work has been at the forefront of understanding how different economic theories and development frameworks offer an opportunity to re-think how we live, how we relate to each other and what we truly value.This conversation goes all over the place - from transparency in political lobbying to the economic change movement, a potential perception gap in how we think others might react to our desires for change and what better questions for creating the society we want to live in are. Throw in references to Wayne Pearce and the Dark Knight Rises and this is a fun, informative and educative chat.It’s undisputed that the trajectory of more of the same will only bankrupt more souls and decimate ecosystems further. Katherine has the knowledge and experience to help us chart a path to a whole new regime. Katherine has heaps of work online and I’ve linked up her website and link to her book in the show notes. I highly recommend spending some time familiarising yourself with her work, and find a copy of The Economics of Arrival too. Support for this episode comes from:Reposit Power - $500 off your solar battery installation. Planet Protein - double the value of your first order at no extra cost.Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

June 9, 2026Episode 1201 hr 29 min

Pursuing Impact - Kate Turner On The Twists And Turns In A Career Seeking Change

Now today’s episode is with Kate Turner. Kate is a recognised leader here and abroad in the world of responsible investment, sustainable finance and ESG data, not to mention an all round great person who hikes, triathlons, meditates, parents and in general is pursuing ways to be helpful and service-oriented. I’ve known Kate a few years now, and having her on the show was a great pleasure. Kate has over twenty years of professional experience across environmental and climate law, developing market renewable energy and carbon product origination, ESG data services and responsible investment. She’s worked across multiple sectors, and is currently serving as the Chair of the Responsible Investment Association of Australasia.I related to a lot of Kate’s personal stories of what drove her to go into environmental law in the first place and a career of choices seeking to find places to make an impact, as well as how to parent in a world seemingly inundated with horror, destruction and deviance. In this chat we get through plenty - from working across markets to develop real projects generating real impact prior to the ESG data verification dilemma, the difficult balancing act between laborious ESG data processes and the need to make a real difference, the shifting investor landscape of the past few years, the differences between the value drivers for action on climate change compared to modern slavery, and the need to build bridges, cooperate and make possible the future we want by building the relational fabric and institutional capacity to withstand the change we want to bring about.We end the chat talking about our own experiences of parenthood in this moment. What to share and how to share it with small kids, the importance of a nature loving indoctrination program from a young age, and also how personal practices and professional support are things we all need to do this work and withstand the heartache of pain and suffering in this world.Kate is one of the most thoughtful sustainability practitioners in Australia, so to spend a little time and enjoy and learn from her perspectives were valuable, and I know you’ll get lots from listening to her.Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

June 2, 2026Episode 1191 hr 32 min

Leaving No Worker Behind And Setting World Records - Alexander Horton Is Holding The Tongs

Today’s guest is Alexander Horton - or Big Al as he’s seemingly become through his social media alter ego in recent weeks. Alex is in the midst of breaking a Guiness World Record for the biggest BBQ lesson of all time, as part of a larger mission to break and take back for Australia the record for the biggest BBQ ever - somewhere in the vicinity of 45,000 people. But beyond the BBQ record efforts, Alex is someone who works in what is possibly the most substantial next horizon of necessary activity as part of the energy transition, and definitely the most disregarded. Who actually designs, builds, installs and maintains the infrastructure involved in the largest infrastructural transformation in this nation’s history? By every metric Australia is materially distant from the scores of different types of workers and skillsets required to deliver on its decarbonisation aspirations. And beyond the issue of simply not getting this done, the current dynamic of workforce shortages creates perverse and adverse outcomes - like the information about the lack of quality and care involved in the home battery scheme over the last 12 months. Why would I need to take care and do excellent work when firstly the incentive is just to do the minimal amount of work in the shortest amount of time, but when there is a gigantic shortage of who can install hundreds of thousands of batteries?So I wanted to chat with Alex about the workforce dynamics of Australia’s energy transition, as well as the idea of green jobs and a shift required in the education, story telling and policy landscapes to make headway. From the hundreds of large scale renewable projects and the tens of thousands of kilometres of transmission lines required, to household electricians, to new types of procurement expertise required in a new energy system and the ways by which finance could structure collective benefit community battery programs, the task ahead of Australia is both gargantuan but also exciting. In all of this though is the reality of who loses and how do you support workers and communities affected by the phasing out and structural decline of coal and gas? In a context where examples of successful workforce transitions are almost non existent, what lessons do exist and who takes on responsibility for those who will lose high paying jobs in the communities they call home?In this episode we get into all of this, as well as his Big BBQ concept in much more detail. That comes from a desire to speak with whose who aren’t already engaged and believers in the mission of a renewable energy future that powers new economies. Alex is driving new types of conversations in new types of places, and that’s courageous. It’s easy to stay in the echo chamber and express righteous indignation and point the blame at everybody else. But getting out there, and getting out there publicly in a way where the likelihood of success is only as great as the likelihood of failure is brave.Support for this episode comes from:Reposit Power - $500 off your solar battery installation. Planet Protein - double the value of your first order at no extra cost.Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

May 26, 2026Episode 1181 hr 39 min

Beyond Box Ticking And Addressing Competency Greenwashing - Alexander Pui Wants You To Care

Alexander Pui is back on the show today for his third appearance. He’s been one of the most popular guests over the history of the Finding Nature podcast and I jumped at the opportunity to chat again while he was recently back in Sydney. For those who know Alex they know they’re in for the usual standard of excellence regarding all things physical climate risk, the state of activity and effort underway to better understand future scenarios and how the science of climate change is outpacing meaningful efforts to mitigate emissions and their long lasting impacts and risks everywhere. For those newer to the show, Alex has been an important figure in my own career when we worked together at a very large yellow coloured bank in Australia, before he moved to Japan a couple of years ago to take on a lead role in climate risk across Asia Pacific with one of the world’s largest professional services organisations.Over the course of his career he’s worked in banking, insurance, reinsurance and consulting, he’s also an Adjunct Fellow at the University of New South Wales and Visiting Scholar at Kyushu University.For our third time around the Finding Nature microphones we get into a lot of topics and themes that are both updates on previous episodes as well as fresh from both of our insights and work over the last 12 months. From the experience of oppressive heat and new heatwave classification systems in Japan to the impacts of storms, flooding and typhoons across Asia in 2025. We get into the expectations and the science of the emerging super El Niño and what the next period of supercharged climate activity is likely to bring, the quality and value of the recently completed Climate Vulnerability Assessment into the Australian insurance industry, where insurers are and aren’t acting, the lessons and practicalities of climate risk management when all the attention is now on box ticking the new Australian climate disclosure legislation, and one of my very favourite topics - competence greenwashing. There’s also an insight into a potential climate resilience idea in Japan for the Australian listener right at the very end, so stay tuned for that one and get in contact if it interests you.Support for this episode comes from:Reposit Power - $500 off your solar battery installation. Planet Protein - double the value of your first order at no extra cost.Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

May 19, 2026Episode 1171 hr 22 min

What It Takes - Adrian MacDonald Leads An Ultra Life

So imagine that it’s 5am and you're standing in the cold and dark in the Blue Mountains, you’re there with 1500 other people. You’re carrying all the gear you’ll need for the next 24 hours, a headlamp on, and what lays ahead is running 100 kilometres through the beauty that is the Blue Mountains. Up and down the cliffsides, through and across the Megalong, Jamison and Kedumba Valleys. For almost no prize money for those that finish as the first few through, little notoriety outside of this niche community, why do these people do something that appears entirely insane, if not downright dangerous to the normal person. To pursue. To seek. To explore limits, potential, to understand what it is we’re truly capable of.And today’s guest is a real treat, and one of the very best in the world at not only running really far, but at speeds that would put him at the front of every running group you’ve ever seen. Adrian MacDonald is one of the world’s best ultra distance runners, and it was both a thrill and a pleasure to speak with him in the lead up to him racing in Ultra Trail Australia over the weekend, where he placed third in an astonishing time of 9 hours and 32 minutes to cover 101 kilometres to go with 4400 metres of elevation.So why would I want to speak with an ultra running distance athlete on what is ostensibly a podcast about sustainability and issues like climate change, corporate incentive structures and justice? Because to me the ultra athlete and the sustainability professional are ultimately the same archetype. Both are seeking to shift norms and seek accomplishments well outside of what the current system ill-defines as appropriate and acceptable. The ultra athlete perseveres, as does the sustainability professional. The ultra athlete needs total clarity of purpose to withstand the ups and downs of whatever a course and race will throw at them, as does the sustainability professional. The ultra athlete is a model for those of us seeking change, to do what seems implausible and to practice action with deliberacy, intention and constant attention to all the small details in pursuit of that grand dream.Adrian’s story though, even for an ultra athlete, where unusual stories and maverick personalities are the regular, really is something else. A track and road marathon athlete of serious note, Covid upended his Boston Marathon ambitions in 2020, and living in Fort Collins, Colorado, nestled against the Rocky Mountains, he hit the trails. Less than 18 months later he won one of the world’s most prestigious ultra marathons - the Leadville 100 - before backing up again 12 months later and also winning another big race in New Zealnd - three from three in his first three ultras. A new star was born. Since then, Adrian’s life has shifted from being a regular financial controller at Colorado State University to a sponsored athlete with one of the world’s leading apparel and shoe brands, and racing in Europe, across the US, Australia, New Zealand, South America and Africa. What he’s achieved is the desired story of every sustainability professional - to work diligently, outside of the limelight, until one day, a largely unpredictable day, shifts how life was and will no longer be how it was again.Speaking with Adrian, being able to spend time with someone of such pedigree, has lit a fire in me. I hope it does the same for you.Support for this episode comes from:Reposit Power - $500 off your solar battery installation. Planet Protein - double the value of your first order at no extra cost.Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

May 12, 2026Episode 1161 hr 42 min

A New Climate And Energy Dawn - Thom Woodroofe On The Path From The Paris Agreement To A Necessary Future

Today’s guest is Thom Woodroofe. Thom is the author of the latest In the National Interest series titled ‘Power, Prosperity and Planet: Climate and Energy Policy For All’. For the best part of 20 years Thom has worked across diplomacy, global affairs and climate policy - from playing a key role in securing the Paris Agreement on climate change in 2015 and helping to establish the High Ambition Coalition of progressive nations. He’s worked as chief of staff to former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd in his role of Australian Ambassador to the US, forged a backchannel for US–China climate talks during his time at the Asia Society in New York, to go with being a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford University.Why did I want to chat to Thom? Well let me read you snippets of the recommendations for his book.Firstly, Kevin Rudd, “‘Thom Woodroofe is a rare talent. In Power, Prosperity & Planet, Woodroofe draws on his deep policy expertise, tempered by political insights from the front lines of the climate and energy debates raging around the globe. The result is a tour-de-force – a practical and informed white paper for all Australians, policymakers and citizens alike, who care about the future of their country and their planet.”Secondly, Malcolm Turnbull “Climate deniers obfuscate with ideology and idiocy, but as this book shows meeting the climate challenge requires engineering and economics and a practical blueprint that empowers all of us.”And last but certainly not least, Christiana Figueres, the architect of the Paris Agreement - “The Paris Agreement provides the global foundation, but it is up to every country now to walk the walk through the kinds of ideas contained in this book.”I really enjoyed this conversation with Thom, and we get through a considerable amount, which represents the breadth and depth of his experiences and knowledge. From his first job out of uni working with the Marshall Islands and advising on their global climate advocacy and diplomacy, to the COP process and part of the remarkable story he had a literal front row seat at in 2015, to his observations and insights from Europe, the UK, US and China that place Australia’s decarbonisation efforts in a broader context, to the pragmatic policy opportunities to drive further emissions reductions as quickly as possible. What I found valuable though speaking with Thom and reading his book is the necessity to ground all of this work and these conversations in what they mean for the average person - and as we’ve seen over the weekend with One Nation winning a lower house seat in parliament - being able to reach and communicate with disillusioned and disempowered people in every part of this country remains the number one challenge in driving the energy transition and broader climate policies. Thom’s work and this chat dives into both of our own reservations and uncertainties on how to best do this, but the necessity to do so.Support the organisations contributing to a healthier, safer and more just future. Reposit Power - get $500 off your solar battery install, plus seven years no electricity bill.Planet Protein - tasty, convenient, plant-based, high protein food for all occasions. Ep.116Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

May 5, 2026Episode 1151 hr 40 min

Built To Create - Holly Rankin Is The Voice Of A Generation

As for remarkable and impressive people - Holly Rankin is one of those. Born and raised in regional New South Wales, she experienced the worst form of loss and trauma during her teenage years and over the past two decades has built a life and career and accomplishment set that is as incredible as it is diverse. From being nominated as an ARIA breakthrough and best new pop release artist, to helping to form and establish David Pocock’s political career to her work more recently in advocating for some form of justice for content creators and creatives against big tech’s theft of all things human made. Holly is a writer, musician, activist, community builder, festival maker, business owner, political strategist and campaign director, to go with being a mother.I first heard of Holly nearly 12 months ago when the devastating mid north NSW floods occurred - she provided a rallying call to politicians and institutional systems and actors to play a role in a rain event that devastated entire communities and left thousands homeless, traumatised and uncertain. Later in the year she gave the 2025 Speaker’s Address to members of the federal parliament and press and it was an articulation of so much of what I have been curious about and seeking to better understand. From youth disenfranchisement to the growth of anti-science political parties to the lack of quality in reporting and media from mainstream businesses and a call to arms to model the type of society they want to govern. We chat about that speech and much of what she covered in far more detail, but that speech is one to dig out through the podcast annals.This was exactly the type of conversation I love having - from the meta and macro trends affecting our lives in visible and invisible ways to the experience of fear and fearlessness as an individual attempting to chart a course. We chat about the proposed text and data mining exception in the copyright act the productivity commission and big tech thought is a good idea, the reckoning already arriving from the climate crisis, activating and creating enduring communities and movements, as well as the personal - grief, growth and becoming a parent.Holly is already a leader. I know enough to know that she is someone whose going to make a big difference in the years to come.For $500 off your home renewable installation, head to Reposit Power for an exclusive Finding Nature offer. Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

April 28, 2026Episode 1141 hr 40 min

Climate Change, Human Rights And The Law - Gillian Moon On A State Of Denial

Gillian Moon is today’s guest. Gillian is a legal scholar who in recent years has been leading the Australian Climate Accountability Project within the Australian Human Rights Institute. Over the course of her career she’s worked in and specialised at the intersection of human rights law, climate change, international economic law and development policy. I first came across Gillian a few years ago when the Australian Climate Accountability Project was first established and started releasing some of its work which was looking at the specific risks and human harms climate change has, is and will continue to create, supplemented by an extensive analysis of Australia’s emissions profile when fossil fuel exports are accounted for. That work stood out as it started to indicate how rights are adversely affected by a changing climate, and over the past few years Gillian and her colleagues have continued to evolve and mature their analysis, commentary and documentation, including the seminal work last year; State of denial: Australia’s legal obligations for human rights harms within Australia from its fossil fuel exports.I worked in the corporate human rights space for a good chunk of my career and have always been surprised that the adverse harms to individual and collective rights that climate change is delivering aren’t better understood nor spoken about. As I’ve tried to do on this show in better understanding the legalities of accountability around climate change, I’m somewhere between convinced and hopeful that human rights and the law can be valuable levers for meaningful action and restorative justice. The International Court of Justice’s advisory opinion regarding the obligations of states in respect of climate change was a key moment in the recent history of the climate equity and justice struggle, but as we hear about from Gillian in this episode, much, much more is still required.We chat about Australia’s insincere and hypocritical fossil fuel and emissions story, the country’s haphazard and unhelpful human rights regulatory and legislative frameworks and structures, and the role of international obligations in all of this. We also get into how legal scholars, health practitioners and climate scientists are beginning to converge around a methodological understanding of how to match climate attribution science to health impacts and the legal consequences of new and expanding fossil fuel projects. As knowledge in these areas accelerate, the potential for rapid change is entirely plausible. This work, that Gillian played a key role in, found that Woodside’s Scarborough gas project off the coast of Western Australia would lead to 484 addition heath related deaths in Europe alone this century, and kill about 16 million additional corals on the Great Barrier Reef in the same time. This is fascinating, important and potentially material developments in surfacing real human rights harms that could and should be incorporated into approval decisions.Gillian is a wealth of knowledge and expertise, and in the battle to beat fossil fuels and intransigent politicians, what she and her colleagues are developing is likely going to become a major force in this next phase of action.Check out Reposit Power to get $500 off your solar battery system that will work. Subscribe, rate & share.Ep.114Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

April 21, 2026Episode 1131 hr 2 min

Forging New Paths - Matt Kean On The Impending And All Encompassing Climate Transition

Hello out there, welcome to or welcome back to the Finding Nature podcast. My name is Nathan Robertson-Ball and when I started this show in 2024 I could only have dreamt about having today’s guest on the show. Matt Kean needs no introductions, and it was a pleasure to have him on. Matt has developed a reputation as a maverick in the Australian energy and environment sphere - all because he’s favoured reality, science and economics. Besides being a radical truth seeker and truth speaker, Matt’s public life is defined by service, diligence and activating. From his maiden speech as a state politician advocating for and then delivering mental health service improvements, to his landmark energy reform package in 2022 as well as holding the treasurer’s pen as one of Australia’s most costly disaster events unfolded along the eastern seaboard of the country.I was keen to chat with Matt less so about his now very publicised work in the field of the energy transition and more about his views on whether the story of green growth is one Australians can rely upon. In a world where climate risk is increasingly imperilling communities, economies and insurance, what good is more solar panels and transmission lines if you can’t inhabit a community for parts of the year because of the heat or the transmission of disease makes avoiding serious illness difficult or you simply can’t access a loan because of the unavailability of insurance. Yes, the energy transition is an essential act. Is it enough to build a promise of prosperity to this nation and a world of eight billion, I’m not convinced.As chair of the Climate Change Authority I also wanted to talk about how to have the extremely difficult conversation with Australians regarding the realities of a changing, new and more volatile climate. In a country where the climate wars has been the result of whether to continue to operate antiquated, dirty, unsafe and unreliable technology or transitioning to an inevitable future of clean energy, it baffles and worries me how to have a mature and honest conversation about the changed and changing climate. From the impacts of agriculture and farm productivity to the loss of the Great Barrier Reef and the communities that rely upon it to how First Nations cultures are lost or unable to be accessed due to rising sea levels or unliveable temperatures. Real people are already experiencing the harms of a changed and changing climate. Loss and damage has arrived, yet the mis and disinformation continues. Vested interests, and captured political figures and media commentators continue to drum up discontent and disharmony over dealing in the reality of change that physics and the world’s largest economy are delivering to this part of the world.Matt Kean embodies a commitment to reality that I respect. Do I think science, economics and technology are all that is needed to transition to futures that are safer, healthier and more just, no. It’s a start, an important start, and I hope from this chat you appreciate just how difficult and consuming being a public figure in this effort like Matt has been, is. Considering energy and climate has largely ended political careers, that Matt not only found a path through that but grew as a result of it is a credit to his determination, capability and optimism. There is much we can all take from that.This episode is supported by reposit Power. Get $500 off your solar battery install. Subscribe, rate & share.Ep.113Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

April 14, 2026Episode 1121 hr 30 min

Climate Apartheid - Beth Goldblatt On The Loss, Damage and Injustice Of The Status Quo

Beth Goldblatt is today’s guest. Beth is a Professor in the Faculty of Law at the University of Technology Sydney where her research and teaching sits at the intersection of feminist legal theory, equality, discrimination law and human rights. In recent years her work has become increasingly oriented towards how climate change impinges on social security and equality, and what role laws currently could play in remediating some of these harms. Beyond that though, and a large part of why I wanted to speak with Beth, was her work on how our current regulatory and legislative frameworks are inadequate to deal with how climate change has and will continue to drive loss and damage into the lives of those already structurally vulnerable to shocks and stresses, and those least responsible for this crisis in the first time. Beth outlines that we not only need new laws, but new ways of understanding law itself.In my darkest existential moments I put my last remaining eggs of hope in the law bucket. Yes - a sweeping legislative and regulatory reform process will do it. Once that happens, everything will finally fall into place. Facts will no longer be able to be ignored or dismissed, BAU and reality-avoidant executives have to make changes. So much of this chat is Beth reminding me about not only the likelihood of that magic wand solution but also that this type of change is based on the people we elect. I’m reminded - again - that change, and with it, power, lies in the hands of those who show up. For our laws to change, we need to elect different types of politicians. For different types of politicians to be elected, we need to support those types of people in our communities. To support those types of people in our communities we need to spend time finding them, helping them, supporting them. It’s mundane, seemingly pretty boring on paper and also a gambit that it’d even work - but it’s not only possible but is increasingly the last meaningful option. So I do believe the law is what’s most vital in the coming decade of climate action, but that requires new social norms and behaviours from people like you and I.Regenerative equality, the reconceptualisation of law, a quest for equality through the law - they’re possible, but take work, effort, time and showing up. As Beth explains in this episode, her experience growing up in apartheid South Africa was fundamental in shaping her understanding of justice, of taking a stand, and knowing that by doing that with others, radical, unimaginable change is possible.Beth Goldblatt opened my eyes and mind to new frames and perspectives I’ve been oblivious to over the last 25 years. I hope this chat has the same effect on you.Head to Reposit Power for $500 off your solar and battery installation. Send me a messageThanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram