Destination Marketing Podcast

Hosted by Brand Revolt

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458

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Oct 2026

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About the show

The Destination Marketing Podcast is built for tourism marketers across the country who are overworked and understaffed. Our goal is to help these people prioritize the activities that are proven to be most effective in marketing a destination and stay up to date on the latest technologies and trends in the industry. This isn’t a feel-good, motivational podcast. We’re diving deep into what to do and how to do it. Subscribe today if you’re a tourism marketer and want to perfect your craft.

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60 recent

October 13, 202645 min

457: Don't Send That RFP Out Just Yet with Camden Bernatz

Camden Bernatz, creative director and lead strategist at Brand Revolt and author of Stop Asking for Pitches: 10 Rules to Fix the Client-Agency Relationship, pitches Adam Stoker a new strategy offer live on the show, and Adam pushes back. Camden argues that most DMO agency relationships are set up for diminishing returns before the RFP is ever written: Frankensteined RFP language borrowed from other destinations, untested assumptions, and agencies hired as extra hands, then blamed for a lack of ideas. Adam plays the skeptical DMO. Who has the bandwidth for an RFP readiness audit, and isn't an agency just stacking the deck to win the bid? They also dig into the cost of staying 18 more months with an agency you've stopped trusting and why uncommunicated expectations sink partnerships. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on the CMO Jam room where nobody would say they loved their agency of record. Camden's book, Stop Asking for Pitches: 10 Rules to Fix the Client-Agency Relationship, is available on Amazon. Reach Camden at camden@thebrandrevolt.com. Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the single biggest way new DMO marketers find us. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters: 00:00 Monologue: The room where no one loved their agency 02:51 Why Brand Revolt moved from tacticians to strategists 06:39 Camden Bernatz joins 09:43 The pitch: agency relationships built for diminishing returns 12:20 Hiring a hammer when you need a screwdriver 15:19 The Frankensteined RFP 16:27 Stop Asking for Pitches and the RFP readiness audit 19:16 Why "better ideas" is the wrong complaint 21:56 Readiness score, quick fix, or big fix 23:21 Announcing DMO Jam (sponsored) 26:06 Pushback: "I don't have the bandwidth" 28:31 "Aren't you just stacking the deck?" 31:51 The real cost of staying in a bad agency relationship 36:02 RFPs and the dating analogy 37:44 Finding DMOs at the right point in the RFP cycle 42:51 Adam's verdict

October 6, 202647 min

456: From Bedroom to Boardroom with Shauna Stewart

Shauna Stewart, CEO of Experience Olympia & Beyond, the Olympia-Lacey-Tumwater Visitor & Convention Bureau in Washington, joins Adam Stoker for a leadership conversation unlike any on the show yet. Shauna led the bureau from 2015 to 2020, stepped away after a nine-month illness, built a career as an intimacy coach, and returned as interim CEO in December 2025. She explains why she traded work-life balance for coherence. She also talks about how the consent skills she teaches, like forming clean agreements, and why DMOs should stop "dealing with stakeholders" and sit shoulder to shoulder instead. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on why DMOs need to build a culture of failure. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. 00:00 Monologue: Build a culture of failure 07:37 Meet Shauna Stewart of Experience Olympia & Beyond 09:13 From CEO to illness to intimacy coach and back 11:32 Bedroom to boardroom: the leadership through line 15:53 Pleasure as the antidote to DMO pain 17:53 The speaker she brings to every board meeting 21:06 Clean agreements and "If you can't convince them, confuse them" 24:55 Why "dealing with stakeholders" is the wrong language 25:16 Mid-roll: Introducing DMO Jam 28:07 Stakeholders as co-conspirators 32:33 Lead with curiosity and unpolluted power 35:33 Hiring for delight 37:16 Coherence over work-life balance 42:04 Measuring outcomes, not hours 44:36 Where to find Shauna and Life Turned On

September 29, 20261 hr 0 min

CMO Jam 2026, Part 1 – How 6 DMO Marketing Leaders Use AI

Recorded live in July, CMO Jam 2026 put six destination marketing leaders at one virtual table with Adam Stoker: Joshua Albrecht of Visit Milwaukee, Allison Brown of Discover Long Island, Karina Anthony of Visit Atlantic City, Megan Buchbinder of Wilmington and Beaches, Christian Mengel of the St. Joseph CVB, and Kelli Steele of Putnam County Tourism. Part 1 of 4 is about AI inside the DMO. Josh explains how one intern and ChatGPT rewrote 1,000-plus partner listings, Megan's team built its own expense tool in Claude Code, and Allison shows how monthly STR reports exposed the ADR problem hiding behind high occupancy. The panel splits on guardrails, from IT walls to protecting critical thinking, then takes the hot seat on how AI changes hiring. Josh closes with Ask Leroy, the LeRoy Butler avatar visitors treat as a novelty. Watch episodes early! Setup an Account on Toursim IQ where we will be giving pre-release access each week for a new episode. https://mytourismiq.com/ Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

September 22, 202644 min

455: Marketing Can't Fix a Product Problem with Michelle Guevara

Adam Stoker opens with the conveyor belt of audience and visitation: the generation that grew up loving your destination is aging off it, and their kids are bored. Adam Stoker opens with the conveyor belt of audience and visitation: the generation that grew up loving your destination is aging off the end, and marketing can't refill the front. Then Michelle Guevara, Director of Destination Experience at Visit Greenville, South Carolina, shows what fixing the product actually takes. Her in-house survey of Greenville hotels came back 65% understaffed, so she built a hospitality career pathway with the Greenville Chamber and Greenville County Schools — this after a student interest survey ranked business and administration at 12% and hospitality and tourism at 1%. Michelle also covers the downtown conference center first studied in 2015 and redesigned for 2026, the Certified Tourism Ambassador program that reached 900 people in under three years, and the five-course dinner with technical college students that ended in three job offers. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

September 15, 202650 min

454: The Funding Crisis Is Not A Myth with Shannon Carter

Shannon Carter, Executive Director of the Wayne County Tourism Bureau in Ohio, joins Adam Stoker to walk through a funding fight she may not win. Her operating contract with the county expired in 1991 and was never renewed — thirty years of handshake agreements that three new commissioners are now unwinding, with the bed tax likely headed to the chamber, Main Street, or the fairgrounds and the bureau possibly sundowning at year's end. Shannon names what she'd do differently: benchmark trend lines against neighboring counties instead of reporting year-over-year numbers, and prove what a DMO does that no one else can. She also covers rebuilding Wayne County's website with a one-man shop in four weeks, and why agritourism across 2,000 family farms became the story she owns. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on the destination website and the illusion of relevance. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

September 8, 202638 min

453: Your Next Hire is Visiting Right Now with Cristal Rodriguez

Adam Stoker opens with the numbers that should worry every destination: US fertility hit a record low under 1.6 in 2025, net immigration fell from 2.2 million to 410,000, and the places people most want to visit are the ones your staff can least afford to live in. Sixty-five percent of hotels already report staffing shortages. His argument is that the visitor you market to today is the workforce you recruit from tomorrow. Then Cristal Rodriguez, Director of Marketing at Tempe Tourism, picks it up from a city that has to plan for it — through a rebrand built on six to eight months of listening, a boutique agency that had never touched a DMO, Prop 302 funding that runs out in five years, and the new Arizona TIA that Tempe is letting Visit Phoenix test first. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

September 1, 202640 min

452: Build the Relationships Before You Need Them with Travis Scott

Travis Scott, CEO of Visit Big Bear, joins Adam Stoker for a conversation about running a rural destination when everything is on the line. Travis tells the story behind Jackie, Big Bear's world-famous bald eagle, and how Visit Big Bear turned a small nonprofit's unwatched nest cam into a global phenomenon while agreeing to take zero branding in return. He explains how he rebuilt trust at Visit Mendocino County by building a coalition instead of a plan, why Big Bear's real problem was never over-tourism but visitor distribution, and what moved him from destination marketing to destination management. With much of the Western U.S. on fire, Travis closes with the crisis playbook he's built across two rural DMOs — starting with the rule that gives this episode its name. Plus, Adam opens with the DMO that was missing from his hometown parade, and the float he'd build instead. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

August 25, 202643 min

451: The Untapped Partnership Opportunity in your DMO with Jason Gamel

Adam Stoker opens with a hard look at why the industry plays it safe, and how that instinct produced both the sea of sameness and the funding fight that came with it. Then Jason Gamel, President and CEO of ARDA, shows what it costs in practice. The timeshare industry generates $3.3 billion in annual rental revenue, all taxed like any other stay, and the average family of four spends just under $5,000 per trip with lodging already paid for. Most destinations have never built a relationship with the resorts producing it. Jason and Adam get into who to call, how to tap shoulder-season inventory, and the stigma still keeping DMOs from picking up the phone. Jason also shares the risk he's taking right now: an association-owned insurance captive, two and a half years in and still not guaranteed to launch. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

August 18, 202645 min

450: DMO Hiring is Broken with Collin Norman

Collin Norman sat through 4 interviews, a Zoom panel with more than 20 people, a request for his start date and a tour of the budget — then got rejected by email, with no call and no feedback. Today he's the Executive Director of Visit Clearfield County, Pennsylvania, and he's building a hiring process that looks nothing like it. Collin joins Adam Stoker to break down why DMO hiring is broken, why it's the same disease as the RFP process, and the three steps he'd run instead — plus what job seekers should do to clear the AI screen and still read like a human wrote it. Adam opens with a monologue on Tennessee's "Yeah, It's Real" photo certification program and where AI stops enhancing an image and starts fabricating one. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

August 11, 202640 min

449: The Future of Agency/Client Relationships in Destination Marketing

In a solo episode, Adam Stoker unpacks a shift he can't stop thinking about since the latest CMO Jam: the agency-of-record model in destination marketing is about to change — whether agencies drive it or clients do. Adam walks through the forces quietly reshaping the relationship — media commissions shrinking, AI erasing the knowledge gap that once justified agency premiums, and DMO teams pulling more work in-house — and what all of it means for who you hire and why. He also shares the one thing every destination should refuse to outsource, the budget line he thinks smart DMOs will start protecting, and a blunt look behind the curtain at how agencies really handle your vendor relationships. Plus, the story behind DMO Jam — the new application-only peer program born out of two years of CMO Jam. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.