Patterns Podcast

Hosted by Knapsack

TechnologyInterviews guests

Website RSS feed

Episodes

143

Latest episode

May 2026

Language

About the show

Welcome to the Patterns Podcast. Each episode we sit down with the leaders and builders defining how modern digital products come to life. From systems and tools to culture and decision making, we dig into what’s driving real impact today and shaping the future of how teams build.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

May 13, 2026Episode 453 min

Building in the Age of Agents with Alex Wilson, Engineering Leader at T. Rowe Price.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Software teams are operating in an environment where the job description changes every two months. As agentic AI moves from novelty to real engineering capability, the assumptions that have held enterprise software together — long SaaS contracts, stable teams, predictable agile rhythms — are starting to bend. In this episode of Patterns, Chris Strahl talks with engineering leader Alex Wilson about what it actually takes to bring AI into a large, regulated organization, and how the math behind building, buying, and structuring teams is shifting underneath everyone at once.Drawing on his work leading the design system at T. Rowe Price and driving AI activation across the firm, Alex explains how agentic capabilities are reshaping build-vs-buy, the shape of teams, and how engineering leaders need to show up. The conversation moves from the cultural pressure to be "AI-native" to the practical questions of modular architecture, smaller delivery pods, and why the best leaders are now building alongside their teams.We'll explore:Why "build vs. buy" looks different when agents can build and maintain internal tools, and how that's pushing companies to shorten SaaS contracts and treat vendor software as a stop-gapHow teams are shifting from large pods running classic agile toward smaller groups of "big gear" and "small clockwork" builders with compressed spike-to-ship cyclesWhy modular, replaceable architecture is becoming a strategic requirement as SaaS feels less permanent and internal builds become more viableHow engineering leaders set the tone by adopting AI tools themselves — treating personal experimentation as a path back into the company's roadmapCheck out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestAlex Wilson is an engineering leader focused on design systems and AI-enabled product development. He leads Beacon, T. Rowe Price’s design system, driving broad adoption across the firm and generating more than $15 million in design and development cost avoidance.He works at the intersection of design, platform architecture, and AI, where he focuses on improving how digital products are built and evolve at enterprise scale. From this perspective, he explores how intelligent systems can enable more adaptive, context-aware experiences while maintaining consistency and design integrity. He also defines technical strategy around agentic workflows that enable teams to build in new ways.Beyond his work at T. Rowe Price, he is an active voice in both the engineering and design communities, speaking at industry conferences, mentoring leaders across disciplines, and contributing to conversations on AI-driven product development, design systems, and the future of software delivery.HostChris Strahl is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approach.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

March 10, 2026Episode 333 min

Building Trust: Designing Product Ecosystems in the Age of AI

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Digital products no longer exist as standalone apps. They live inside complex ecosystems of interfaces, AI systems, legacy infrastructure, and workflows that all have to work together. In this episode of Patterns, Chris Strahl talks with product design leader Andi Rusu about what it takes to design reliable digital experiences in environments where multiple systems—and increasingly AI—are shaping how products behave.Drawing on experience at Disney, Sonos, Axon, and Microsoft, Andi explains why trust is becoming the central design challenge in modern product development. As AI becomes embedded in digital products, the job of design expands beyond crafting interfaces to shaping how complex systems behave, how decisions are made, and how users understand what’s happening behind the scenes. The conversation explores how designers can balance abstraction and transparency, when friction actually improves the experience, and why human judgment still plays a critical role in building trustworthy AI-powered products.We’ll explore:Why modern digital products behave more like ecosystems than individual apps, and how fragmentation across systems creates new design challenges for product teamsHow AI is becoming a new layer inside product development, influencing how workflows, decisions, and automation shape the user experienceWhy trust becomes harder to maintain in AI-driven products, especially when systems make decisions users cannot see or easily understandWhy human judgment still matters in AI-powered design, and how designers balance abstraction, transparency, and intentional friction to create reliable user experiencesView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestAndi Rusu is a product design and research leader focused on creating user-centered experiences across complex product ecosystems. He has led design teams and initiatives at Disney, Axon, Sonos, Microsoft, and Deloitte, helping organizations deliver impactful digital products at scale. He has also taught experience design at Cornish College of the Arts, the University of Washington, and the School of Visual Concepts.HosttChris Strahl is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approachSponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

February 10, 2026Episode 241 min

Inside the Alaska–Hawaiian Merger: Shipping a Multi-Brand Experience in 10 Months

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.The Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines merger came with physical and regulatory deadlines that dictated an inflexible 10-month delivery window for digital and design work. With the timeline tied to real-world change, combined design, product, and engineering teams had to build and ship alongside a transformation that was already in motion.Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford and Forrest Akemann about what it took to deliver a multi-brand experience under that pressure, while respecting the long histories and cultural significance of two iconic airline brands. From foundational decisions around color, typography, and tokens to close collaboration across teams, this conversation offers a realistic look at how systems work gets done when speed is non-negotiable and the stakes are real.We'll explore:What changes when deadlines are tied to physical and regulatory reality?Why is merger-driven multi-brand work harder than planned multi-brand?How do shared foundations like color, typography, and tokens enable teams to move faster together?View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestNoelle Lansford began her career as an engineer on design system teams before transitioning into design, where she discovered her passion for connecting the technical and human sides of digital product creation. Today, as the founder of Shep, a design systems consultancy that partners with organizations from early-stage startups to Fortune 5 companies, Noelle helps bridge the gap between design, engineering, and business strategy. Her work focuses on creating systems that balance structure with flexibility, prioritize people over process, and deliver lasting business value instead of chasing perfection.Forrest Akemann is a design systems lead at Hawaiian Airlines, where he has worked since 2019 across product design and design systems. He played a key role in building Hawaiian’s design system and later helped lead the system work through the Alaska–Hawaiian merger, focusing on multi-brand foundations, theming, and system adoption.HosttChris Strahl is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approachSponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

January 27, 2026Episode 148 min

Designing the Learning Loop: Context, AI, and Compound Systems

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In the first episode of Patterns, Chris Strahl sits down with Dave Brown, design leader at Qualtrics, to explore what modern systems thinking looks like in an AI-driven product landscape. Moving beyond traditional notions of software design, the conversation reframes product creation as a shift from a single golden path toward a world where every experience is effectively an edge case. Together, they unpack why context, not features, is becoming the primary design material and how AI is forcing teams to rethink how systems are structured, constrained, and evolved.Drawing on his experience leading AI and ML initiatives at AWS and now at Qualtrics, Dave explores how designers and builders can shape better outcomes by designing for context, learning loops, and adaptability. The discussion spans designing for AI versus designing with AI, the rise of compound engineering, and the collapse of rigid boundaries between design, product, and engineering. Rather than shipping static features, the future points toward systems that learn continuously, respond in real time, and improve through every interaction.Key takeawaysContext is the core design challenge of 2026, shaping how AI systems behave, adapt, and deliver value.Product systems are moving from golden paths to infinite edge cases, driven by personalization and real-time decision making.Designing for AI means creating learning loops, where systems improve through continuous feedback rather than static rules.Compound engineering reframes software creation around systems that get smarter over time, collapsing traditional role boundaries.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestDave Brown is a design leader at Qualtrics, where he focuses on AI initiatives and the evolution of the company’s design system. Previously, he spent nearly a decade at Amazon, including six years leading design for AI and machine learning services at AWS. His work centers on building adaptive, scalable product systems, with a particular interest in context, learning loops, and how teams can design systems that get smarter over time.HostChris Stroll is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approach

December 17, 2025Episode 13934 min

DSP 139. Why the Future of Digital Production Starts With Code, Not a Canvas

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.As AI compresses the distance between idea and execution, the abstractions that once made design tools necessary are becoming points of friction. In this conversation, Knapsack leaders Chris Strahl, Evan Lovely, and Robin Cannon make the case that the future of digital production starts in the medium products actually ship in, code. They unpack why design systems are infrastructure, not artifacts, how context becomes the critical input for enterprise AI, and why creating directly in code unlocks faster iteration with higher fidelity. This shift changes who gets to create, how teams work together, and what it means to scale ideas instead of just processes.In this episode, you’ll hear about:AI as an enabler of human creativity, not a replacementWhy prototype-first workflows are breaking downHow the Intelligent Product Engine supports real product creationWhat it looks like for designers, developers, and product teams to build, refine, and ship togetherView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestEvan Lovely is the co-founder and CTO of KnapsackRobin Cannon is the Head of Product at KnapsackHostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

December 4, 2025Episode 13824 min

DSP 138. Scaling Inclusive Design: An Accessibility Conversation with Anna Thielke

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.How do teams turn accessibility from individual effort into system wide practice? Chris talks with Anna Thielke, founder and CEO of Mantis and Company, to find out. They explore why representation on system teams leads to better standards, how designing for the edges strengthens products for everyone, and what it takes for accessibility work to spread across large organizations in a sustainable way. Anna also shares how lived experience shapes her perspective and why accessibility becomes more effective when teams view it as shared responsibility rather than a late stage requirement.Key TakeawaysDesign systems provide the structure needed to scale accessibility across teams.Representation on system teams shapes the standards that reach every product.Designing for the edges leads to more inclusive and resilient experiences.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestAnna Thielke is an entrepreneur and systems thinker who leads Mantis & Co., a disability-owned accessibility and inclusive design agency. Drawing on 15+ years of experience and her background as a blind, neurodivergent leader, she helps teams build products and cultures that work for everyone. Previously Director of Inclusive Design at CVS Health, Anna is known for blending creativity, honesty, and practicality to move organizations from intention to action.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

November 11, 2025Episode 13744 min

DSP 137. Why You Shouldn’t Aim for Perfect: Building Design Systems That Deliver Business Value with Noelle Lansford

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.If you’ve ever struggled to balance perfection with business reality, this episode is for you. In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford, founder of Shep, about why chasing the “perfect system” often breaks more than it fixes. Drawing on her experience across startups and Fortune 5 companies, Noelle argues that design systems succeed when they serve people and the business—not when they chase architectural purity. She and Chris dig into the realities of relational alignment between design, engineering, and product, the shift from component factories to consulting mindsets, and what AI means for the next generation of design leadership.Here’s what stood out:Perfection shouldn’t be your goalDesign systems teams should pursue an infrastructure + enablement structureSystems of systems thinking works—if the cultural conditions are rightAI makes iteration faster, which makes human oversight more essentialView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestNoelle Lansford began her career as an engineer on design system teams before transitioning into design, where she discovered her passion for connecting the technical and human sides of digital product creation. Today, as the founder of Shep, a design systems consultancy that partners with organizations from early-stage startups to Fortune 5 companies, Noelle helps bridge the gap between design, engineering, and business strategy. Her work focuses on creating systems that balance structure with flexibility, prioritize people over process, and deliver lasting business value instead of chasing perfection.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

July 22, 2025Episode 13645 min

DSP 136. Are Design Systems Still for People? A Conversation with Elyse Holladay

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In this episode, Chris Strahl talks with Elyse Holladay—staff design engineer at Color Health and host of On Theme—about the evolution of design systems and how AI is reshaping the way we think about abstraction, collaboration, and contribution. They explore what it means to maintain relevance in a landscape where LLMs increasingly influence product development, and reflect on whether design systems are still for people—or for machines. Elyse shares a clear-eyed yet optimistic take on how AI can enhance, rather than replace, the work of design system practitioners.Key Points:Design systems are shifting focus from components to solving collaboration and workflow problems.AI isn’t replacing systems—it’s changing how they’re used and what they need to support.Smaller teams can move faster by focusing on what’s most valuable, not doing everything.Documentation is evolving to prioritize practical guidance over polished presentations.Design systems are becoming infrastructure for both humans and AI.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestElyse Holladay (she/her) is a long-time Design Systems practitioner and speaker, currently the Staff Design Engineer for Color Health's Continuum Design System. She was tapped to start the first Design System team for Indeed, has taught hundreds of hours of technical training content, and has been invited to speak at well-known industry events such as Clarity Conference, CSSConf Berlin, and Frontend Design Conference. She is also the host of On Theme: Design Systems in Depth. She's a technical generalist, off-the-charts extrovert, avid reader, and expat Texan with an armadillo tattoo.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

July 8, 2025Episode 13536 min

DSP 135. The Infrastructure Behind Digital Production: A Conversation with Steve Dodier-Lazaro

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Design systems aren’t just a UI toolkit—they’re the backbone of digital product creation and management. In this episode, engineer and researcher Steve Dodier-Lazaro joins Chris Strahl to unpack why treating design systems like standalone products is holding teams back. They explore what it really takes to scale product design and development in enterprise environments—from shared tooling and token standards to how AI and LLMs can bridge messy, real-world workflows.In this episode:Why design systems are dependencies, not deliverablesTools and standards shaping the future of digital productionHow AI will reshape the infrastructure behind design and engineeringView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestSteve Dodier-Lazaro is a freelance software engineer specialised in design systems and frontend development based in Seine Saint-Denis, France. Steve is dedicated to advancing the design system tooling ecosystem through his open-source contributions as a community advocate, addon author and contributor to Storybook, and through projects around design token tooling.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

June 13, 2025Episode 13430 min

DSP 134 Modernizing a Legend: Catherine Dubut Builds the Future at Ford Pro

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.What does it take to transform 121 years of automotive legacy into a modern digital ecosystem? Catherine Dubut, Director of Global UX Strategy at Ford Pro, joins Chris Strahl to share how her team is reengineering the organization’s fragmented product landscape into a scalable, unified digital assembly line.With over 80 legacy sites, 20+ global markets, and deeply siloed teams, the scale and complexity of Ford Pro’s challenge was immense. Catherine explains how her team brought structure to chaos—combining elements from outdated systems, building new foundations where needed, and stitching them together into a single, coherent design system. From establishing governance and cross-functional collaboration to introducing micro frontends and scaling adoption, this episode offers a playbook for modernizing UX at enterprise scale.Key themes:Designing for fleets, not just drivers—multiple users, journeys, and roles per customerReplatforming 80+ tools across legacy systems and international business unitsBuilding a design system through consolidation, extension, and future-proofingUsing micro frontends to bridge disparate tech stacks across Ford ProMeasuring success through design efficiency, team adoption, and developer alignmentView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestCatherine Dubut is Director of Global UX Strategy at Ford Pro, the commercial business of Ford Motor Company. She oversees a global team of individual contributors and managers across design, user research, information architecture, and content strategy. Catherine is a seasoned UX leader with a track record of designing impactful experiences, driving UX practice maturity, and digital transformation at dynamic brands at places like Samsung Electronics, REI, and Intuit. Based in Seattle, Catherine’s been involved in design community activities including organizing local events, mentoring underrepresented UX professionals, public speaking, and writing. She enjoys exploring cities, outdoors, architecture, and other adventures with her husband, daughter, and terrier mix rescue.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.