Content and Conversation: Organic Growth Insights from Siege Media

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116

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Jun 2026

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EN-US

About the show

Using the techniques that have helped cement $148,646,000 in yearly traffic value for their clients, Siege Media and founder Ross Hudgens dive into the executional nitty gritty of what makes content rank, and how to get content shared. Topics include content marketing, SEO, digital PR, user experience and more.

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June 15, 20261 hr 0 min

What Your CMO Needs to Know About AI Search w/ Tom Critchlow

Ross Hudgens sits down with Tom Critchlow, founder of AI Search Leaders (the evolution of his SEO MBA community), for a candid conversation about what GEO actually is in 2026 and why nobody has fully cracked it yet. Tom makes the case that AI search measurement looks far more like brand measurement than classic SEO: less about prompt monitoring and keyword ranking, more about share of model, awareness, and how LLMs describe you (not just whether they cite you). Along the way they dig into the "yes" stance SEOs need to take with executives, why brand, PR, and product teams, not SEO teams, tend to own the outcomes that move GEO, the real career risk facing SEOs, technical SEO in the age of model distillation, NavBoost and clicks as a trust signal, and the personalized, push-not-pull future of search. Show Notes 0:00 – Why SEOs can't afford to be defensive 2:35 – How do you measure GEO? 6:24 – Measuring GEO like a brand 15:04 – Who really owns GEO? 23:26 – Technical SEO in the AI age 30:36 – Stop chasing tactics 37:09 – Selling GEO amid uncertainty 41:21 – NavBoost, clicks as trust 51:39 – Personalization, privacy and the future of search Show Links AI Search Leaders: https://www.searchleaders.ai/ Your Inbox Might be the Next AI Search Signal: https://ipullrank.com/google-personal-intelligence-experiment Why Every AI Search Platform Is Now Agentic and What That Means for Your Content: https://ipullrank.com/agentic-rag Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

June 1, 20261 hr 5 min

Eli Schwartz on Google’s GEO Advice and SEO Careers Today

Ross Hudgens sits down with Eli Schwartz, author of Product-Led SEO and former VP of SEO at SurveyMonkey, for a wide-ranging conversation on the real state of SEO in 2026. They break down Google's new AI search guidance (spoiler: it's basically just SEO), why there's a massive mismatch between what companies want from SEO teams and what they're getting, and why Eli thinks the SEO career path is broken but the demand for real SEO has never been higher. They also get into which industries are best positioned for the LLM era, why technical SEO is actually becoming more valuable, and why Eli thinks SEOs should start thinking of themselves as product managers. Chapter Markers 00:00:10 – Google's new AI search guidance 00:07:26 – Manipulation isn’t a strategy 00:12:22 – The SEO career mismatch 00:17:50 – Why SEO teams can't show their value 00:25:26 – New entrants and dying conferences 00:36:17 – The skills SEOs need now 00:43:35 – Why the best SEOs build things 00:57:45 – Which industries win in the LLM era Show Links Google’s GEO advice: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/fundamentals/ai-optimization-guide Eli on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/ Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

May 13, 202646 min

Lily Ray on AI Slop, GEO, and What Actually Works

Ross Hudgens welcomes Lily Ray, VP of SEO Strategy & Research at Amsive — this time in person — for a wide-ranging conversation on what's actually working (and what's getting patched) in AI search right now. They dig into the rise and likely fall of self-promotional listicles and comparison pages, the new wave of GEO manipulation tactics already being flagged as spam by Google and Microsoft, and how to build visibility that's genuinely algorithm-proof. Lily also shares how her team is using AI day-to-day, what the technical GEO checklist looks like in 2026, and why she's still betting on Google winning the AI search race long-term. Show Notes: 00:00:11 – Lily's new consulting practice at Algorithmic 00:02:11 – The rise and fall of self-promotional listicles 00:08:11 – Comparison pages and alternative posts 00:12:38 – Authentic authority vs. paid influence 00:15:42 – GEO exploits Google & Microsoft flag as spam 00:27:23 – Using AI day-to-day 00:30:46 – The GEO technical checklist 00:36:27 – Predicting the Next 12 Months Show Links: Find Lily at Amsive: https://www.amsive.com/insights/author/lily-ray/ Follow Lily on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lily-ray-44755615/ Follow Lily on X: https://x.com/lilyraynyc Lily’s Substack: https://lilyraynyc.substack.com/ Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

May 4, 202640 min

Is Content Syndication Worth It? w/ Stacker's Noah Greenberg

Noah Greenberg, CEO of Stacker, joins Ross to break down how his platform distributes brand content as earned media across thousands of news publishers and why it's becoming a core part of modern SEO, digital PR, and GEO strategy. They dig into the nuances of doing syndication the right way, from canonical tags and editorial standards to why Stacker's network of 3,000+ publishers makes it a fundamentally different play than old-school link building. Noah also explains how the rise of GEO is reshaping the value of syndication, as brands discover that republishing content across hundreds of news outlets dramatically increases the surface area for LLM citations. Ross and Noah close out with a practical breakdown of what content actually performs on the newswire: proprietary data stories only your brand can tell, public data localized by geography, and well-timed "news you can use" tied to seasonal events. If you're a brand, agency, or SEO thinking about content distribution, this one is worth your full attention. Show Notes: 0:00 What Is Stacker? Distribution, Earned Media & How It Works 01:20 How Stacker Solved the Chicken-and-Egg Problem with Publishers 08:23 Google's Syndication Warning & Why Stacker Plays It White Hat 13:11 The Real SEO & GEO Value of Content Syndication 17:04 Who Is Stacker Actually a Good Fit For? (B2B vs. B2C) 22:39 Local Content, Localization at Scale & Why It Outperforms 27:17 How Stacker Scales Across 3,000 Publishers Without Oversaturating 35:35 3 Types of Content That Consistently Win on the Newswire Show Links: Follow Noah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahg/ Stacker: https://stacker.com/ Follow Ross on X: https://x.com/RossHudgens: Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

February 5, 20261 hr 9 min

Building a Media-First Content Marketing Strategy w/ Devin Bramhall

In this episode of Content and Conversation, Ross Hudgens sits down with Devin Bramhall to unpack what’s broken in modern B2B marketing and what actually works when metrics get messy and attribution falls apart.They talk through Devin’s experience writing B2B Content Marketing Strategy, why “media-first” is now table stakes, and how community is often misunderstood, mis-scoped, or forced into the wrong formats. Devin shares real examples from her work at Help Scout and beyond, showing how strong communities are built by paying attention to people, not playbooks.Show Notes:00:00 – Intro/Marketing can’t be measured with numbers alone 05:30 – Writing a book when you already know the answer 10:20 – Media-first content marketing explained 15:00 – What community actually means (and what it doesn’t) 20:30 – Real-world community examples that worked 28:30 – Outcomes vs activities in marketing reporting 35:00 – Telling a story your CEO will understand 44:30 – When community is the wrong strategy Show Links:B2B Content Marketing Strategy Book by Devin BramhallFollow Ross on X: https://x.com/RossHudgens Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

January 12, 20261 hr 9 min

How GEO Actually Works w/ Bernard Huang

Bernard Huang returns to break down GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) and the big question: is GEO actually different from SEO, or just SEO evolving? We talk about how AI Mode/AI Overviews are changing search behavior, why top-funnel traffic is getting squeezed, and what “good SEO is good GEO” really means in practice. Show Notes:00:00 – Welcome back & why GEO is everywhere03:05 – Is GEO actually different from SEO?07:10 – How AI agents think vs keyword-based SEO12:45 – The traffic apocalypse & AI Mode becoming default18:00 – Mentions vs backlinks in an LLM world24:30 – What people are getting wrong about GEO30:45 – Measuring success: impressions, citations & brand search42:55 – The “long, long tail” and the future of content strategy Show Links:Follow Bernard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjhuang/ Visit Clearscope: https://www.clearscope.io/ Follow Ross on X: https://x.com/RossHudgens Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

December 1, 20251 hr 10 min

Tough Questions CEOs are Asking About AI SEO (and How To Answer Them) w/ Gaetano DiNardi

Ross welcomes Gaetano DiNardi, growth advisor and B2B SaaS strategist, to unpack the brutal questions CEOs are suddenly firing at their SEO teams in the AI era: traffic is flat or down, attribution is messy, LLM dashboards look scary, and everyone wants to know if SEO is still “working.” They dig into why traffic is no longer the primary health metric, how AI Overviews and LLMs are breaking the old “rank → CTR → traffic → leads → revenue” equation, and why CMOs should obsess less over sessions and more over demo requests, pipeline, deal size, and overall organic channel performance. Gaetano shares how he’s reframing SEO for mid-market B2B SaaS: shifting from decaying top-of-funnel content to bottom-of-funnel “money pages,” optimizing for LLM citations and “money prompts,” and using concepts like “crash-the-party” comparison pages to win high-intent demand across both Google and AI platforms. They also break down why LLM prompt tracking is the new rank tracking (with all the same pitfalls), how AI platform traffic actually converts compared to Google, what “dark funnel SEO” looks like in practice, and why Gaetano thinks classic TOFU SEO might effectively go to zero while brand, data studies, and opinionated thought leadership pick up the slack. Show Notes0:08 – Gaetano returns & why last year’s SEO playbook no longer works1:17 – CEOs’ top question: “Traffic is down… is SEO still working?”2:17 – Why B2B SaaS is feeling the decline hardest3:16 – The old rank → CTR → traffic → revenue model is broken5:46 – Top-of-funnel content is collapsing (and why TOFU is “dead-ish”)6:13 – The shift to bottom-funnel: BOFU keywords, low volume, high intent7:11 – Flat traffic + rising revenue: the new SEO success story8:01 – What LLMs cite: comparisons, “best X” lists, crash-the-party pages8:38 – Crash-the-party SEO explained in 15 seconds13:21 – LLM prompt dashboards are misleading your executives15:53 – Branded vs. non-branded LLM prompts: why you MUST separate them18:06 – Build a tight list of “money prompts,” not 500 random ones20:06 – Why AI platforms show higher conversion rates than Google22:10 – Dark-funnel behavior: LLM → Google → homepage → convert 24:08 – Google leads have FAR larger deal sizes than AI leads27:35 – SEO attribution is officially “cooked” in the AI era29:27 – Traffic flat, pipeline up 3×: examples from real clients31:25 – Use top-10 stability to prove AI Overviews stole your clicks34:47 – Search is becoming BOFU-first — what that means35:34 – LLM citations as the new leading indicator for SEO39:00 – Exploding topics = more LLM citations due to low consensus41:22 – Engagement validates information gain (why POV content wins)47:20 – What happens to TOFU SEO? (Short answer: it shrinks massively) 48:49 – Why TOFU may survive only for authority, clustering, and links Gaetano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/officialg/ Tough Questions CEOs Are Asking About AI SEO: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T_IQXUCXBQtFcLekVFwqv23y8ViuRFJKBIRtn4wcImQ/edit?usp=sharing Does traffic from AI platforms convert “better” than Google search traffic?: https://marketingadvice.substack.com/p/869517ce-4629-429f-addd-518d9342cdff CMOs are frantically asking “what’s our Reddit strategy?: https://marketingadvice.substack.com/p/cmos-are-frantically-asking-whats LLM prompt tracking is the new rank tracking: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/officialg_llm-prompt-monitoring-is-quickly-becoming-activity-737 7069814458097664-KLyi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAj OemoBsmGgXOOcFpcwGVG1B7IlDCvf8io Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

November 13, 202538 min

Do You Need a Content Engineer? w/ AirOps’ Josh Spilker

Ross sits down with Josh Spilker, Content Marketing & SEO Lead at AirOps, to unpack the rise of the content engineer — what it means, why it matters, and how it’s reshaping SEO and content operations. They dive into Ryan Law’s critique, hybrid-AI workflows, org-chart ownership, automation opportunities, and why Josh believes AI doesn’t kill content — it rewires strategy. Plus: the “context librarian” concept, content refresh automation, spotting slipping queries, using multiple models together, and avoiding low-quality AI traps. Show Notes: 0:08 – What is a “content engineer” and why the role is emerging 1:17 – How content engineering evolved from early UX concepts 2:13 – Who fits best in this role: writers, SEOs, or automation pros? 3:39 – Ryan Law’s critique: “I wouldn’t hire a content engineer” 4:51 – Internal linking as a powerful semi-automated workflow 5:56 – From manual outlines to AI-assisted research and briefs 6:48 – Balancing AI workflows and human-led quality control 7:24 – Why “Director of Automation” might better describe the role 8:35 – Who should lead content automation inside organizations 9:15 – AI text generation vs. hybrid workflows: what’s really working 10:38 – The limits of pure AI content and why oversight matters 11:19 – How AirOps customers use hybrid models for scale 12:01 – Using multiple models (ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity) together 13:02 – The “7% of AI pages” debate and Patrick Stox’s counter-data 14:19 – How editorial standards and compliance shape AI adoption 15:23 – “AI doesn’t kill content — it rewires strategy” 16:15 – Refresh workflows: detecting pages and queries that slip 17:18 – Where content engineers fit in the org chart today 18:16 – The rise of the “context librarian” for brand knowledge bases 19:19 – Combining brand governance with AI-driven workflows 20:21 – How automation can unify voice and style across teams 21:32 – Why AI helps close the creative gap faster, not replace writers 22:29 – Teaching non-engineers to think like product builders 23:19 – Breaking down creative processes into repeatable systems 24:07 – Turning everyday editorial routines into structured workflows 25:08 – Automating meeting summaries and reporting emails 26:12 – Using AI to surface key quotes and podcast clip highlights 27:17 – “Transformation content”: repurposing, summarizing, clipping 28:13 – AirOps’ content strategy: optimization, refresh, iteration 29:04 – Refresh workflows tied to GSC data and ranking drops 30:33 – Risks of shallow “freshness updates” and engagement metrics 31:47 – How informed SEOs make the best use of AirOps workflows 32:07 – Why fundamentals matter before scaling with AI tools 33:02 – Barry Bonds analogy: AI only helps pros with solid foundations 34:15 – Automating backlink outreach with contextual relevance 35:34 – Why personalization still wins over high-volume outreach 36:17 – The balance between automation and editorial craft 37:11 – Where to find Josh’s webinars, reports, and AirOps resources Josh Spilker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshspilker AirOps: https://www.airops.com AirOps Webinars: https://www.airops.com/categories/events Ahrefs Post (Ryan Law): https://ahrefs.com/blog/i-wouldnt-hire-a-content-engineer Patrick Stox Response: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/patrickstox_im-sure-youre-all-seeing-the-study-saying-activity-7385017156213788672-5srr Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

November 5, 202532 min

How Angi Uses AI to Power Better Content w/ Caroline Gilbert

Caroline Gilbert — Director of Content & Editorial at Angi — joins Ross Hudgens to explore how one of the largest home-services brands is using AI to scale, transform, and optimize content operations. They discuss how Caroline’s team doubled Angi’s content library to 12,000+ articles, how AI helps maintain top-funnel visibility amid shifting search behaviors, and the nuanced balance between human expertise and generative automation. Caroline breaks down the three pillars of Angi’s AI framework — generation, transformation, and operations — and how they’ve automated everything from brief creation to CMS ingestion while keeping a strong editorial voice. Plus: lessons learned from early AI missteps, real examples of disclosure testing, and how AI is reshaping both content creation and search behavior itself. Show Notes 0:08 – From cost guides to “everything home”: expanding Angi’s library 1:00 – Moving up-funnel: education, troubleshooting, light DIY, and when to hire 2:14 – Top-funnel ROI drops as AI overviews change search behavior 2:56 – Why Angi adopts gen-AI: maintain helpful content without heavy human lift 3:27 – Staying visible where intent is early but brand value matters 4:45 – Content becomes commodity: deciding where humans add unique value 5:55 – Evergreen “how-to” steps vs. human nuance (risks, gotchas, pro POV) 7:18 – How AI is used: full refreshes, component injections, data-driven sizing 9:01 – The real trade-off: human time vs. technology time 9:26 – Scale context: 5k → 12k pages (growth mostly human-led) 9:41 – Three pillars: generation, transformation, operations 10:38 – Ops wins: briefs, automated edits/QA, CMS ingestion, minutes → hours 12:21 – Designers focus on UX polish when ingestion is 98% done 12:58 – Where AI struggled: risky DIY (HVAC/roofing), brand POV, nuance 15:02 – Licensing content is messy (state/county rules): tighter human review 17:19 – Design: generate/transform/streamline + “vibe coding” prototypes 20:18 – Pilot first: small cohorts, guardrails, measure engagement/conversions 21:22 – Disclosure tests: placement/tone matter; users split ~50/50 on trust 25:53 – “Tools, time, or talent”: when to push pro hire messaging 27:39 – Differentiators: pro interviews + Angi’s original homeowner cost data 28:07 – AI helps editors analyze like analysts; humans shape the story 29:19 – Looking ahead: AI shifting search from answers to utilities/experiences Show Links Caroline Gilbert on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-gilbert-41463518/ Angi: https://www.angi.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

October 16, 202551 min

Programmatic SEO in the Age of AI w/ Ex-Zapier Head of SEO

Matt Bowers — SEO and LLM consultant, formerly of Zapier and Zillow — joins Ross Hudgens for a deep dive into how AI is transforming programmatic SEO. They explore what’s working and what’s not for large-scale, AI-assisted content strategies — from full-AI “use-case” pages to hybrid human workflows. Matt breaks down examples of successful AI programmatic sites, the pitfalls of duplicate content, and the emerging “information gain” paradigm shaping rankings post-2024. They also discuss the limits of AI in UX-driven verticals, personalization opportunities, long-tail visibility in LLMs like ChatGPT, and how data-driven scaling can still give human SEOs a competitive edge. Plus: the rise and fall of Greg.app, the future of personalization, Zillow’s “Project Boggle,” and practical tools like Builder.io, Strapi, and AirOps that power modern programmatic builds. Show Notes 0:08 – Matt returns for round two: programmatic SEO meets AI 1:00 – Are “pure AI” sites actually winning? What’s working and what’s not 2:06 – Inside a million-visit-per-month AI programmatic play 3:15 – Structuring AI content around real use cases, not blog posts 4:22 – Why old GPT-3.5 copy can still rank — and the “don’t mess with success” mantra 5:03 – Dwell time as a differentiator: the “product as content” advantage 6:13 – How AI copy helps with indexing and duplicate-content differentiation 7:17 – Why Google probably isn’t detecting AI directly and what it does instead 8:11 – The “high-DR arbitrage” era of AI content — and why it’s fading 10:11 – Why most public AI case studies stay anonymous 11:16 – Case study: Greg.app — AI-generated plant care pages done right 12:03 – How prompt engineering + UX elevate AI content 13:13 – Prompting each paragraph individually vs. one giant prompt 15:21 – Two winning models: product-driven and UX-driven AI programmatic 16:15 – Why blog-style AI content still struggles and the “pizza” metaphor 20:05 – Greg.app’s traffic drop: lessons from a 75% decline 22:21 – AI’s scalability advantage — and its ROI trade-offs 25:24 – Zillow’s data advantage: proprietary enrichment and GIS precision 26:16 – When AI enables pages that “shouldn’t exist” by human economics 27:21 – Scaling what can’t be scaled: the real AI unlock 28:16 – Competing in local long-tail SERPs with AI vs. humans 28:31 – Traits of losing players: low information gain, weak differentiation 29:20 – Why “information gain” may be the new ranking factor 30:06 – Proprietary data as the ultimate SEO differentiator 31:00 – How real estate UX converged — and why speed and personalization win 33:00 – When non-AI programmatic still wins: data-only, high-usability pages 35:07 – Where AI doesn’t belong: when usability is more important than copy 35:37 – Personalization and the future of AI-driven recommendations 37:07 – The Perplexity vision: a world run by AI agents and voice search 39:06 – What AI agents mean for SEO and monetization 40:38 – Long-tail demand from LLMs and how Zapier used programmatic pages 42:29 – How LLMs discover your use cases and why it matters 43:20 – Using internal data to fuel new programmatic ideas Project Boggle 46:09 – Generating new landing pages from user search inputs 47:52 – Internal search data as a goldmine for programmatic expansion 48:30 – Tools of the trade: AirOps, Builder.io, Strapi, and hybrid stacks 49:43 – Why programmatic SEO still needs human PMs and engineers 50:08 – Where to find Matt online Show Links Matt Bowers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpbow/ Matt’s Website: https://mattb.rs/ Greg.app AI plant care example: https://greg.app/plant-care/monstera Strapi CMS: https://strapi.io/ AirOps: https://www.airops.com/ Builder.io: https://www.builder.io/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing