Computer Says Maybe

Hosted by Alix Dunn

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124

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Jun 2026

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EN-US

About the show

Technology is changing fast. And it's changing our world even faster. Host Alix Dunn interviews visionaries, researchers, and technologists working in the public interest to help you keep up. Step outside the hype and explore the possibilities, problems, and politics of technology. We publish weekly.

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June 12, 2026Episode 12547 min

Computer Says Kill: The AI Safety Circus w/ Heidy Khlaaf

The AI industry loves to talk about safety, but their version of safety is putting us at risk.More like this: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony LoewensteinFor our second to last series episode of Computer Says Kill, we’re joined by Heidy Khlaaf, a global expert in designing safe critical systems for high-risk infrastructures such as energy grids, nuclear power plants, and weaponry. Heidy outlines how the AI industry is working to redefine and shrink this essential, established field of expertise. By parading around sham “safety benchmarks”, this circus of an industry is marketing statistics that literally amount nothing at best, and proof that today’s LLMs aren’t safe at all, at worst. We explore the centuries of precedent and practice established in the safety field and examine how today’s AI safety “experts” are eroding this work to rush the incorporation of shoddy tech into the lucrative nooks and crannies of our militaries, economies, and physical infrastructure.Further reading & resources:Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf & Sarah Myers West, 2025Social Benefit versus Technological Risk: What is our society willing to pay for safety? — Chauncey Starr, 1969Israel built an ‘AI factory’ for war. It unleashed it in Gaza. — WaPo December 2024Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

June 5, 2026Episode 12449 min

Computer Says Kill: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony Loewenstein

Israel has a long history of making new technological weapons of war and exporting them to the world. They have used Palestine as a testing ground to show how new tools can enable mass killing. And they are banking that demand for their products might protect them on the world stage.More like this: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Maddy BattIn part seven of Computer Says Kill, author of The Palestine Laboratory Antony Loewenstein explains that for Israel, precision warfare is just performative. Israel has the means to kill with precision, but this is at odds with the logics of genocide. Antony will take us through the history of Israel’s dealings with authoritarian states, and Israel and American states do not need to take state control of a their domestic tech industries because they are already so ideologically aligned with their regimes.Further reading & resources:Buy The Palestine Laboratory by Antony Loewenstein (Verso Books)Watch The Palestine Laboratory series on Al Jazeera‘Hondurasgate,’ the alleged US and Israeli interference plot to destabilize Mexico and other progressive governments — El Pais May 2026Israeli drone strikes on vehicles in Lebanon kill 12 people, including 2 children — LA Times May 2026What is Project Nimbus? Al Jazeera, 2024Israeli authorities are using facial recognition technology to entrench apartheid — on ‘Red Wolf’ from Amnesty International, 2023Check out our Youtube for Tech Story of the Week**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

May 29, 2026Episode 12319 min

SPECIAL: Israel’s AI Kill List in Lebanon w/ Nabih Bulos

The Israeli military is using data, surveillance, and AI to kill noncombatants in Southern Lebanon. More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt MahmoudiThis week, we're kind of taking a break from our Computer Says Kill series to play a interview from our YouTube channel that is extremely relevant to the conversations we've been having about AI and militarization. Alix sat down with Nabih Bulos, the Middle East Bureau Chief at the LA Times, to discuss his recent reporting on Israel’s complex system of surveillance-driven targeting where, as he writes, even data from a phone can become a death sentence.Further reading & resources:Inside Israel’s AI targeting system: How data from a phone become a death sentence — Nabih Bulos, The Los Angeles Times, May 2026Watch the interview on our YouTube channelCatch up on episodes of Computer Says Kill, our series on AI, warfare, and power **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

May 22, 2026Episode 12241 min

Computer Says Kill: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Madeline Batt

Anthropic’s AI systems have been used in illegal American invasions in Iran and Venezuela. They have partnered with Musk in the disastrous Memphis Colossus facility. And yet! News coverage, some civil society, and a lot of normies act like Anthropic is one of the good guys. They aren’t!More like this: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray WidderFor part six of Computer Says Kill, we are joined by legal fellow Maddy Batt, who filed an amicus brief in the courtroom battle between Anthropic and the US Department of War. We talk about what we know from the lawsuit, what we know about how AI is being used in illegal invasions, and what might be possible for corporate accountability.Further reading & resources:The amicus brief filed by Tech Justice LawBuy Project Maven by Katrina MansonAutonomised Harming — Linda Eggert, July 2023Autonomous Weapons Systems and Human Rights — Linda Eggert, July 2024Moral Crumple Zones: Cautionary Tales in Human-Robot Interaction — Madeleine Clare Elish, 2019**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

May 15, 2026Episode 12137 min

Computer Says Kill: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray Widder

Academia, Big Tech, and the military are caught in a sordid love triangle — and their love language is money.More like this: Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis SiegelFor part five of Computer Says Kill, researcher David Widder describes the powerful trifecta that is academia, Big Tech, and the US military: all of them need each other to survive, but who is benefiting the most? Half of Carnegie Mellon’s research funding comes from the DoW or the DHS — and David will explain how it’s being used to both prop up war apparatus, and serve as an on-ramp to Big Tech platforms.Further reading & resources:It’s about power: What ethical concerns do software engineers have, and what do they (feel they can) do about them? — David Widder et al, June 2023Basic Research, Lethal Effects: Military AI Research Funding as Enlistment — David Widder et alOpen (For Business): Big Tech, Concentrated Power, and the Political Economy of Open AI — David Widder, Sarah West, Meredith Whittaker, August 2023 To Build Our Future, We Must Know Our Past: Contextualizing Paradigm Shifts in Natural Language Processing — Sireesh Gururaja, Amanda Bertsch, Clara Na, David Widder, Emma Strubell, December 2023What Tech Calls Thinking by Adrian DaubThe Undone Computer Science ConferenceComputer-vision research powers surveillance technology — Nature Magazine, June 2025What’s happening in Memphis with Anthropic? — The Maybe Media**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

May 8, 2026Episode 12043 min

Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis Siegel

The US is in a race to ‘beat China’ at AI. Or is it? What if I told you that powerful actors in the US have built the story of an all-or-nothing race to get what they want?More like this: Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos TohIn part four of Computer Says Kill we are joined by Lis Siegel who shares the history. We start with a document produced by China in 2017, and arrive at today when the Chinese bogeyman is being used to drive money, political influence and supply chain control to a few US tech giants. Listen in for some insight into how we got here.Further reading & resources:Examining AI Safety as a Global Public Good: Implications, Challenges, and Research Priorities — Lis Siegel et al, March 2025Silicon Valley enabled brutal mass detention and surveillance in China, internal documents show — AP News, September 2025A Dark-Money Campaign Is Paying Influencers to Frame Chinese AI as a Threat — Taylor Lorenz, Wired, May 2026Slogan Politics by Jinghan ZengBreakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan WangFinal Report from the National Security Commission for AI — 2021Yellow Techno-Peril: The ‘Clash of Civilizations’ and anti-Chinese racial rhetoric in the US–China AI arms race — Kerry McInerney 2024Bernie Sanders urges international cooperation to halt AI’s ‘runaway train’ — The Guardian, April 2026**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

May 1, 2026Episode 11913 min

Short: RightsGone? Why Zambia May Have Pulled the Plug on RightsCon

RightsCon has just been cancelled by the Zambian government with no word to the organizers, five days before it was set to begin.RightsCon is the biggest annual global gathering of the digital rights community. Every year thousands of people come together to figure out how to make the internet safer and freer for everyone. When they can't connect, we all lose.Alix shares a few theories about why Zambia pulled the plug (geopolitics, trade deals, and "values"). She also talks through her views on what it could mean that safe global spaces for this work are collapsing, and why you should care even if you've never heard of RightsCon.If you were planning on attending RightsCon we're so sorry. If you're in Zambian civil society fighting for space to engage on these issues, please know there is a global community that has your back.Further reading & resources:World’s Largest Digital Human Rights Conference Suddenly Canceled — 404 Media, April 29**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

May 1, 2026Episode 11847 min

Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos Toh

Military spending on AI is a triple black box: How is AI being used in the military? Who is winning these contracts and what are they worth? And what is the military’s end-game here?More like this: How a Calculator Company Reshaped Modern Warfare w/ Jeff SternAmos Toh will help us answer these questions in part three of Computer Says Kill. We will cover how military spending has changed over the last couple of decades: there has been a clear shift from the straightforward buying up of jets, to the over-reliance on licensed software. Amos also shares what hasn’t changed, which is: yes, the government still spend a hell of a lot of money on military tech.Further reading & resources:The Business of Military AI — Amos Toh, Emile Ayoub, March 2026Read Amos and Emile’s explainer on the military’s use of AIPentagon's use of Claude during Maduro raid sparks Anthropic feud — Axios, Feb 13Department of War's Artificial Intelligence-First Agenda: A New Era for Defense Contractors — Holland & Knight, Feb 2026The Double Black Box by Ashely DeeksAI at war: Five things to know about Project Maven — Euractiv, April 2026Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf, Sarah Myers West, April 2025**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

April 24, 2026Episode 11737 min

Computer Says Kill: How a Calculator Company Reshaped Modern Warfare w/ Jeff Stern

Precision weapons are meant to make warfare more exact. But what happens when the executive branch uses precision as an excuse to make more war and target with less and less accountability for accuracy?More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt MahmoudiIn part two of Computer Says Kill, Jeff Stern shares how a calculator company transformed modern warfare by making more precise weapons. After the Second World War, the US military wanted to be able to wage more war and target with more accuracy. At first it was about saving American troops. Over time it became a permission structure for more executive control over lethal force.What does this history tell us about the role of precision and accountability in war?Further reading & resources:Get The Warhead by Jeff Stern nowMore on Weldon Word and the development of precise weaponry during the Vietnam warOperation Desert Storm: 25 years on — CNN 2019Right to strike when your boss sells AI to the military? — Cori Crider, The Register Lecture, 2019 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

April 16, 2026Episode 11649 min

Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt Mahmoudi

How does a country wage war using LLMs? Oh and WHY?More like this: AI in Gaza: Live from Mexico CityIn Computer Says Kill Ep #1 we are joined by Matt Mahmoudi. The US Department of War is leaning heavily on AI technologies to attack Iran. Matt explains how the use of LLMs to identify ‘legitimate targets’ is collapsing the chain of decisions that lead to lethal force. We discuss what this means at a time when fascist governments are eager to demonstrate their strength on the global stage. From Israel field-testing AI weapons in Gaza, to the US using AI tools in horrifying new ways to perpetuate ever worse war crimes, we start to connect the dots between the technology, the people powering it, and the human costs.Further reading & resources:Automated Apartheid — Amnesty International 2023How Israel uses facial-recognition systems in Gaza and beyond — Matt’s interview in The Guardian about the reportCrimes of Dispassion: Autonomous Weapons and the Moral Challenge of Systematic Killing — Elke Schwartz, 2023Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? — By Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz, The New York Times, April 2026“Big Brother” in Jerusalem’s Old City — Who Profits Research CentreWhat is Israel's secretive cyber warfare unit 8200? — Reuters 2024Genocide as Colonial Erasure — Francesca Albanese, October 2024Buy Resisting Borders and Technologies of Violence, edited by Mizue Aizeki, Matt Mahmoudi, and Coline SchupferBuy The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports the Technology of Occupation Around the World by Anthony Loewesnsteincan we add Francesa Albanese reportMatt’s research (Automated Apartheid, and anything else on warfare to link to?)Palestine Laboratory**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout