Code 3 - The Firefighters Podcast

Hosted by Scott Orr

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300

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Apr 2026

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About the show

The podcast for and about firefighters, "Code 3" covers topics of interest to those in the fire service, in about 20 minutes. We take one subject, one guest, and get it done. We don't waste your time.

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60 recent

April 3, 202630 min

Size-Up: A System for Success with Todd Edwards

Today, we are rethinking everything you know about fire ground size-up. Everyone has been taught standard acronyms like COAL WAS WEALTH. But that traditional method is often too complicated for a young firefighter or inexperienced officer with no background in building construction.Our guest today is here to share what he calls a system for success. He breaks down the vital difference between an initial windshield report and a true size-up. And he warns that a worthwhile size-up absolutely does not take place from the cab of the apparatus.Todd Edwards explains why identifying the occupancy is the most critical step. Hearing "working fire" over the radio is simply not enough for incoming units to make tactical decisions. They need to know exactly what they are dealing with before they ever step off the rig.Todd Edwards served for over 30 years with Atlanta Fire Rescue. He is a second-generation firefighter and the creator of the presentation "Size-Up: A System for Success." During his career with Atlanta, he held a variety of positions, including Captain, Battalion Chief, and Assistant Fire Chief.

March 21, 202630 min

Searchable vs. Survivable with Sean Duffy

How many times have you pulled up to a location, seen fire blowing out of the second-story windows, and thought, "There is no way anyone is alive in there?" Today’s guest argues that firefighters have been making that call far too early. And it’s often based on outdated campaigns and fear rather than real-world data.You took an oath to protect life. It is the driving force behind every decision you make when you pull up to a working fire. But that drive has to be balanced with reality.The question isn't just "is the building searchable?" The harder question is: "Is it survivable?"Joining me is Sean Duffy, a firefighter on a mission to redefine the boundary between searchable space and survivable space. Sean is a vocal advocate for the Firefighter Rescue Survey, using hard data to prove that victims can—and do—survive in structures with over 75% fire involvement.Sean is a highly respected instructor and the voice behind the presentation "Searchable vs. Survivable: Educated Decision Making." He’s here to discuss how to move beyond guessing and start using data, fire behavior, and building construction to make the toughest call on the fireground.He’s a firefighter for the City of Ann Arbor, Michigan, where he’s been for almost 20 years.I last had him on the show talking about the reasons why 2-in/2-out is a concept whose time has passed.

January 29, 202630 min

Leadership from the Bottom Up with Dr. Candace Ashby

You ever walk into *that* firehouse? You know the one. The crew is burnt out. They’ve given up on morale. And they’re constantly complaining that "Downtown" or "The Brass" have ruined the job.But my guest today argues that if your station’s culture is toxic, you shouldn't be looking at the Fire Chief for help... you should be looking in the mirror for solutions to your problems.Yep. The most powerful person in the department isn’t the one with the bugles on their collar—it’s the Company Officer sitting at the kitchen table. Dr. Candace Ashby is a Battalion Chief with the Indianapolis Fire Department. She holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership. She is the creator of "Leadership from the Bottom Up," a no-nonsense approach that challenges firefighters to stop playing the blame game and start taking ownership of their department.She joins me today to talk about why we need to stop waiting for permission to lead, how to turn bitterness into betterment, and why the future of the fire service depends on the men and women riding the engines

January 15, 202622 min

Making the Grab with D.J. Stone

There’s a lot of talk about "making the grab" in this job. But how often do you actually break down what went right when a rescue is successful?Not just the tools, but the mindset, the assignments, and the split-second decisions made in the first few minutes.After the high-fives and backslapping, it’s time to analyze how you did it. So you’ll do it right the next time, too.And to look at your mistakes, so you can avoid them the next time.My guest today has turned that breakdown into a science. D.J. Stone is a Battalion Chief with the South Walton Fire District in Florida. He’s the creator of "The Grab Analysis," a program that dissects real-world rescues—captured on video—to teach firefighters exactly how to prioritize the search and get victims out alive.On this edition of Code 3, we discuss aggressive search culture, the "850" method, and why preparation starts long before the tones drop.

January 8, 202621 min

Stretch, Charge, Flow, and Move with Daryl Liggins

We often talk about the fireground as a chaotic environment, because it is.But there is a tendency in the modern fire service to meet that chaos with complexity—adding more gadgets, more steps, and more theories to what is, at its heart, a simple physical battle.When the heat is high and visibility is zero, complexity is the enemy. It slows you down. And in this job, slow can be fatal—in fact, it has been.So, how do we strip away the noise and get back to what actually puts the fire out?Today, we’re going to discuss the "Keep It Simple" philosophy. We’ll talk about why firefighters need to slow down, the specific mechanics of a good hose stretch, and why the most advanced piece of technology on the fireground is still a well-trained firefighter with a nozzle.My guest today believes the answer lies in four simple words: Stretch. Charge. Flow. And Move.Daryl Liggins is a retired Training Captain from the Oakland Fire Department, a department known for its aggressive interior culture and heavy fire duty. Throughout his career, Daryl has been a student of the engine company. He has championed the idea that mastering the basics isn’t about being "old school"—it’s about being effective.

November 2, 202528 min

Venting the Roof: When, Where, and How with Nicholas Papa

Do you know exactly how vertical ventilation works?Depending on your level of experience, you may think you do, but you still might not have a really solid understanding of why it works. Simply cutting a random 4x4-foot hole in the roof won't do the job in all cases.My guest today has a good deal of experience as a firefighter, but he admits that, until he saw a live fire test, he misunderstood how cutting a hole in the roof affects the fire.We’ll talk about that, as well as when it’s the best time to vent the roof, how dangerous it is to work up there, how handlines can be used to move air and smoke with it, and how much training firefighters need to remain proficient in roof operations.Nicholas Papa is a 17-year veteran of the New Britain, Connecticut, Fire Department, where he’s a captain. He became a firefighter in 2003, volunteering for a neighboring suburb until he was hired by New Britain. He is the author of the book Coordinating Ventilation: Supporting Extinguishment & Survivability.

August 28, 202518 min

Getting Treatment for PTSD at the IAFF's Center of Excellence with Curt Isakson

If you spend any time on social media, you’re probably familiar with Curt Isakson.He has a massive presence on Facebook and about 6,000 followers.Chief Ike, as he’s also known, has had a 30-plus-year career in the fire service.He's also been an advocate for treatment of firefighters who sufFer from PTSD.So it was not a big surprise when Curt decided to enroll in the IAFF’s Center ofExcellence for Behavioral Health Treatment and Recovery.It’s an in-patient treatment program held at a facility in Maryland. The program isdesigned for firefighters and treats a variety of emotional problems. Whileabout a third of the participants suffer from PTSD, there are also victims ofsubstance abuse and other issues, like depression.In Curt’s case, he decided to check himself in to be treated for PTSD.As his social media followers know, his request for time off to be treated wasdenied by his employer, Escambia, County, Florida, Fire-Rescue.Curt decided to go anyway.When he returned, he was forced into retirement.But Curt is not sorry he went, even though he lost his job.

August 19, 202516 min

When It Was Fun & He Carried a Gun with Bill Niemann

When Bill Niemann joined the fire service in 1976, the landscape looked verydifferent. This was a time of rubber boots, and riding the tailboard of theengine. SCBAs were the newest thing, and not everyone got to have one.When Bill Niemann joined the fire service in 1976, the landscape looked verydifferent. This was a time of rubber boots, and riding the tailboard of theengine. SCBAs were the newest thing, and not everyone got to have one.But for the second half of his career in the fire service, Bill carried a gun. Hewas an assistant fire marshal assigned to the Arson Crimes Unit of PrinceWilliam County, Virginia. Back then, there were no rules for fire investigations. Just wait until you hear how he wrote his own rulebook.Speaking of writing, Bill has also written a novel. It’s titled “Heavy Fire Showing.”But for the second half of his career in the fire service, Bill carried a gun. Hewas an assistant fire marshal assigned to the Arson Crimes Unit of PrinceWilliam County, Virginia. Back then, there were no rules for fire investigations. Just wait until you hear how he wrote his own rulebook. Speakingof writing, Bill has also written a novel. It’s titled “Heavy Fire Showing.”WhenBill Niemann joined the fire service in 1976, the landscape looked verydifferent. This was a time of rubber boots, and riding the tailboard of theengine. SCBAs were the newest thing, and not everyone got to have one. Butfor the second half of his career in the fire service, Bill carried a gun. Hewas an assistant fire marshal assignedto the Arson Crimes Unit of PrinceWilliam County, Virginia. Back then, there were no rules for fire investigations. Just wait until you hear how he wrote hisown rulebook. Speakingof writing, Bill has also written a novel. It’s titled “Heavy Fire Showing.”

August 5, 202523 min

Choosing an IC on a Volunteer Response with Richard Ray

If you’re a member of a volunteer department, you’ve probably run into the problem of Incident Command.The issue is, who’s going to be the IC on a given fireground.Now, if your volunteer department is lucky enough to have career firefighters showing up to calls with you, the problem’s not so bad. Odds are, that career firefighter is going to be the one who takes command of the scene.But what if the response is all-volunteer? Who takes command then?That’s the question we’re going to examine on this edition of Code 3.My guest today is Richard Ray. He’s got over 30 years in the fire service. He’s both a firefighter with the Creedmoor, North Carolina Volunteer Fire Department. His full-time job is battalion chief with the Durham, North Carolina Fire Department. He instructs on a national level as well.

May 15, 202530 min

End of the Road for a Fire Chief with Scott Freitag

This edition of Code 3 is a little different than most.It’s about a Fire Chief who lost his job after he incurred the wrath of the UnionLocal’s officials and, ultimately, the IAFF. Scott Freitag was the chief of the Central Arizona Fire and Medical Authority, orCAFMA. The agency was created under Scott’s leadership when two fire districts combined undera JMA to form CAFMA in 2015.CAFMA covers 365 square miles of territory of Yavapai County, Arizona. And it servesabout 100,000 residents from 12 stations.One day in August 2024, a press release showed up in email inboxes saying that theIAFF had censured Scott Freitag by a vote of 2,520 to 0. Iwas pretty startled to get this news because I know Scott Freitag to be anhonest, decent Fire Chief who was genuinely concerned about the welfare of hisfirefighters.As you’ll hear, the no-confidence vote led to Scott’s firing after 11 years asFire Chief in September 2024.How this all went down depends on whose story you believe. It may well have hadlittle to do with firefighting and much more to do with politics and a healthplan.