CFB Talks Digital Assets

Hosted by CF Benchmarks

Business InvestingInterviews guests

Website RSS feed

Episodes

Latest episode

Aug 2026

Language

About the show

CFB Talks Digital Assets is the home of informed conversation about crypto from CF Benchmarks. We are the first and leading digital asset index provider, authorized and regulated by the UK FCA. Respected and innovative financial institutions use our indices and reference rates to power regulated financial instruments, like listed derivatives, investment funds and structured products. Join CF Benchmarks’ Head of Content, Ken Odeluga, Head of Research, Gabe Selby, CFA and Research Analyst, Mark Pilipczuk, as they talk with some of the most accomplished and influential figures in finance, about everything affecting digital assets — crypto protocols, markets, fund flows, on-chain metrics, macroeconomics and more.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

August 20, 20261 hr 4 min

New on CME: CFB's Basket Indices, the Bessent Put, and Our Jackson Hole Preview

In this week's CF Benchmarks live X Space, recorded August 20, 2026, Head of Research Gabe Selby is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk and Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, with CF Benchmarks CEO Sui Chung joining as a special guest for a landmark product announcement. The panel unveils two new benchmarks, the CME CF Crypto Market Index (CMI) and the CME CF Emerging Crypto Index (ECI), set to launch on August 31, before turning to a frenetic twenty-four hours in markets: a US Treasury long end buyback increase that failed to hold yields down for even one session, a sharp Bitcoin breakout past key resistance, and a first look at the July FOMC minutes ahead of next week's Jackson Hole symposium, where Kevin Warsh takes the podium. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Team Welcome 01:33 – Breaking: CME and CF Benchmarks Announce Two New Crypto Indices 03:15 – Why Build Both a Market Index and an Emerging Leaders Index? 08:47 – Inside CMI's Universe: From 1,000 Tokens to the Top 12 14:57 – Product Market Fit: The Rule That Sets CMI Apart 20:19 – Unveiling ECI: Crypto's Satellite Sleeve 26:29 – ECI by the Numbers: Fees, TVL, Users & the DeFi Leaders Behind Them 28:32 – Why Launch Now? Regulatory Clarity Meets Market Timing 31:27 – Treasury's $4 Billion Buyback Bet Meets the Bessent Put 35:47 – Deficits, Duration & Why Crypto Is Outperforming Big Tech 41:13 – Bitcoin's Breakout: Reflexivity and the Levels to Watch 48:55 – FOMC Minutes Recap: AI Inflation Chatter and a Balance Sheet Task Force 52:35 – Jackson Hole Preview: What Will Warsh Say? 1:01:30 – Week Ahead: PCE, Fund Flows, MSTR & the Treasury Auction Slate

August 13, 20261 hr 1 min

Our Read on Inflation, Clarity's Odds of Passage & DeFi's Revenue Era

In this CF Benchmarks live X Space, recorded August 13, 2026, Head of Research Gabe Selby is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk and Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo for a roundtable covering markets, macro, and Fed policy, with a surprise appearance from Bitwise Research Analyst Ishmael Asad. Chapters:00:00 – Intro & Team Welcome 02:46 – Strategy's STRC Preferred: Racing Back to Par 08:02 – ETH Treasury Preferreds, Issuance & the EIP That Could Lower Staking Rewards 11:35 – July CPI: A Setup for a Fed Pause? 16:43 – Bitcoin vs. Stocks vs. Gold: Who Wins on CPI Surprises? 19:52 – Oil, Iran & the Fed's Reaction Function 25:33 – 2022 Redux? Comparing Today's Labor Market to the Last Hiking Cycle 32:38 – Jackson Hole Preview: What to Expect From Chair Warsh 37:33 – Clarity Act: Reading the September Senate Vote 44:47 – DeFi's Revenue Era: Hyperliquid, Aave, Uniswap & Pump.fun 47:31 – Tokenized Equities: The Next 10x for RWAs 51:28 – The Return of Buybacks: DeFi's Value Accrual Thesis 54:25 – From Layer 1s to App Layer: Where Fees Actually Accrue 57:30 – Week Ahead: Jackson Hole, Clarity & ETF Flows

August 6, 20261 hr 7 min

Signs of a Bitcoin Bottom, Vault Adoption & The Fed's September Meeting

Has Bitcoin bottomed and what could determine its next move? Recorded live on August 6, 2026, this episode of CF Benchmarks X Space examines Bitcoin’s performance relative to gold and the Nasdaq, the growing adoption of on-chain asset-management vaults, and the outlook for the Federal Reserve’s September meeting. CF Benchmarks Head of Research Gabe Selby, CFA, is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk; Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CFA; CF Benchmarks Senior Product Manager James Flamant; Head of Business Development Peter Stern; and special guest André Dragosch, PhD, Director and Head of Research for Europe at Bitwise. The panel begins with Bitcoin near $64,000, Brent crude below $80 and a softer-than-expected ADP employment report. They assess whether Bitcoin has formed a bottom, what market breadth and return dispersion suggest about the broader cycle, and which indicators they are watching next. The conversation then turns to on-chain asset-management vaults: how they work, where they sit on the adoption curve, and why curation, valuation and round-the-clock creation and redemption introduce risks that investors must understand. The episode closes with a discussion of oracle reliability, the safeguards needed for on-chain derivatives, and whether a September rate hike is now off the table. Chapters: 01:38 – Meet André Dragosch: Bitwise Europe's Research Chief 06:45 – Market Snapshot: Bitcoin at $64K, Brent Below $80 & a Soft ADP Print 08:34 – Has Bitcoin Bottomed? The Relative-Value Case vs Gold & the Nasdaq 13:32 – CFB's Market Cycle Engine: Market Breadth, Return Dispersion & a Still-Bearish Structure 17:41 – What Thomas Perfumo is Watching 23:00 – James Shares What's on His Watchlist 24:06 – A View From Sales: The Summer Lull & the Wealth-Platform Unlock 25:12 – On-Chain Asset Management: What a Vault Actually Is 28:26 – Curation, Valuation & 24/7 Create-Redeem: The Index Provider's View 34:58 – Where Vaults Sit on the Adoption Curve 44:01 – Oracle Robustness: The Weakest Link in On-Chain Derivatives 52:15 – Rapid Fire: Is a September Rate Hike Dead? 59:24 – Week Ahead: NFP, CPI, ETP Flows & CLARITY's Last Gasp 1:07:27 – Closing Remarks

July 30, 20261 hr 1 min

Post-FOMC Debrief, Treasury Companies Under Pressure & CLARITY Stalls Again

In the latest CF Benchmarks live X Space, recorded July 30 2026, Head of Research Gabe Selby, CFA is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk, Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CFA, and special guest Tyler Evans, Co-Founder and Chief Investment Officer of UTXO Management. Tyler is a career Bitcoiner. He co-founded BTC Inc, the publisher behind Bitcoin Magazine and The Bitcoin Conference, before launching UTXO Management, a Bitcoin-native asset manager focused on asymmetric opportunities across public and private markets. The Fed held for a fifth consecutive meeting with three regional presidents dissenting in favor of a hike, the most unified dissent since 2016. The 30 year yield closed at its highest level since 2007. Q2 GDP came in at 1.5% against expectations near 2.1%. Strategy raised another $544 million of common equity without buying a single Bitcoin. And with the Senate's August recess days away, the CLARITY Act remains stuck behind an unresolved ethics provision. The panel works through what all of it means for Bitcoin, treasury companies, and the broader crypto market. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Team Welcome 04:02 – Grading Warsh's Second Press Conference 08:14 – Three Inflation Shocks & the Case for a Hold Through Year-End 12:52 – The Yen at 40-Year Lows & the Carry Trade Read-Across 14:24 – Is the Fed Losing Control of the Long End? 16:22 – Yield Curve Control: Playing Against the House 20:47 – GDP Misses at 1.5%: Soft Headline, Firmer Internals 23:08 – Best Case, Worst Case: Oil, Tariffs & the AI Capex Wobble 26:07 – The K-Shaped Economy & Why the US Is Insulated 28:42 – Dissent Contagion & Volatility Sequencing Across Assets 31:25 – Saylor on Defense: Cash Reserve, Dilution & STRC Buybacks 34:56 – Rebuilding mNAV: Aligning Equity Accretion With Bitcoin Per Share 37:32 – Stretch at $89: Betting Against Strategy Means Shorting Bitcoin 41:15 – Digital Asset Treasuries: Throwing Out the Baby With the Bathwater? 46:00 – Supply Concentration: Bitcoin vs ETH & Hyperliquid Treasuries 48:54 – Volatility Harvesting & the Coiled Bitcoin Spring 54:21 – CLARITY at the One Yard Line: UTXO's Bearish Base Case 56:58 – Week Ahead: Jobs, ECI, Strategy Earnings & the CLARITY Act

July 23, 20261 hr 1 min

Cross-Asset Volatility at the Lows, the AI CapEx Reckoning & the Latest Text For CLARITY

Could oil be the catalyst that wakes cross-asset volatility? In this CF Benchmarks X Space, recorded on July 23, 2026, CF Benchmarks Head of Research Gabe Selby, CFA (@gxselby), is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilkoczuck; Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CFA (@ThomasPerfumo); CF Benchmarks Head of Business Development Peter Stern (@sternpeter9); and special guest Craig Shapiro (@ces921), Senior Macro Strategist at NinjaTrader and author of The Aletheia Narrative. The conversation captures markets at a genuine inflection point. With July options expiry behind us and dealer positioning near cyclical lows, the cross-asset volatility suppressed throughout the year may finally be reawakening. Craig explains his “coiled spring” framework for record-low implied correlations and traces the potential sequence of a volatility shock—from oil to rates, credit and, ultimately, equities. The group also examines why the hyperscalers’ AI capital-expenditure boom is increasingly relying on external financing rather than free cash flow—and whether that shift is beginning to strain some of the world’s most profitable companies. The discussion then turns to the CLARITY Act, including the Senate draft’s ethics provision and the compressed timeline ahead of the August recess, leaving its prospects for passage close to a coin flip. Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction and Team Welcome 01:55 – Meet Craig Shapiro: Two Decades on the Buy Side 04:14 – Market Snapshot: Bitcoin, Oil and Rates 05:49 – Implied Correlations and the “Cold Spring” Effect 12:15 – Semiconductors vs. Software: Where the Dispersion Lies 15:38 – Hyperscalers Turn Cash-Flow Negative 21:21 – AI CapEx: Payback, Funding and the Shift From Debt to Equity 29:52 – The Yen Carry Trade and Dollar-Yen at 40-Year Highs 35:45 – Oil, Inflation and the July CPI 38:43 – Crude’s Backwardation and the 2027 Supply Glut 39:59 – Can the Fed Ignore Oil? Warsh’s Next Move and the Balance Sheet 46:50 – The CLARITY Act: Inside the Senate Draft and Its Ethics Provision 56:12 – The Week Ahead: What We’re Watching Listen to the original X Space: https://x.com/i/spaces/1vKpPPAqaVmKE Follow the speakers and organizations on X: CF Benchmarks — @CFBenchmarks https://x.com/CFBenchmarks Gabe Selby, CFA — @gxselby https://x.com/gxselby Thomas Perfumo, CFA — @ThomasPerfumo https://x.com/ThomasPerfumo Peter Stern — @sternpeter9 https://x.com/sternpeter9 Craig Shapiro — @ces921 https://x.com/ces921 Kraken — @krakenfx https://x.com/krakenfx NinjaTrader — @NinjaTrader https://x.com/NinjaTrader

July 16, 20261 hr 2 min

Cooling Inflation, Q2 Earnings & Strategy's Balance Sheet

In this week's CFB Talks Digital Assets live X Space, Head of Research Gabe Selby, CFA is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk and Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CFA, with Blue Coin Capital Founder and CIO Mike Treidl, CFA joining for the second half. A cooler-than-expected June CPI print, a widening reality check on corporate AI budgets, and Strategy's evolving balance-sheet playbook frame a wide-ranging session across macro, markets, and digital asset structure. The team works through the disinflation signal against a still-unresolved energy backdrop, debates whether the AI capital expenditure cycle is approaching a return-on-investment reckoning, and closes with a detailed look at how Strategy is managing its capital stack in a compressed NAV environment. Chapters: 0:00 – Intro & Team Welcome 2:39 – June Retail Sales: A Softening Consumer? 5:02 – Cooling Inflation & the Rates Market Setup 8:53 – Oil, Energy & the Inflation Impulse 12:41 – A Bifurcated Oil World: Diesel, Refiners & Inventory Risk 17:17 – Fed Speak: Waller's Hawkish Turn 20:00 – Warsh's Fed: Agenda-Setting & Constructive Ambiguity 26:49 – Q2 Earnings: Financials Surprise to The Upside 28:58 – Hyperscaler CapEx & the AI ROI Question 32:53 – The AI Spending Reality Check 38:18 – AI's Moat Problem: Low Switching Costs 43:03 – Guest Mike Treidl Joins: AI Moats & Walled Gardens 45:30 – Strategy's New Playbook: ATM Raises Over Bitcoin Sales 48:33 – The USD Reserve Debate: The Right Use of Cash? 59:38 – Week Ahead: FOMC, the Clarity Act & Fund Flows 1:01:57 – Closing Remarks

June 25, 202654 min

The Reflexivity Problem: MSTR Stress, ETF Outflows & Why the Bull Case Still Holds

In the latest CF Benchmarks live X Space, recorded June 25, 2026, Head of Research Gabe Selby is joined by a deep bench from across CF Benchmarks and Kraken: CEO Sui Chung, Head of Sales Peter Stern, Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk, and Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo. The team is joined by special guest James Seyffart, Senior ETF Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, with a drop-in from Bitwise Head of Research Ryan Rasmussen. With Bitcoin more than 50% off its all-time high, the panel takes on the question that's all over the headlines: is Strategy breaking the Bitcoin market? The conversation works through Strategy's preferred-share stress, its cash runway, an ETF holder base now underwater for the first time this cycle, the capital rotation into AI and the DRAM trade, and a hotter-than-expected May PCE print, before closing on what they're watching in the coming weeks. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Welcome 03:58 – Is Strategy the Single Biggest Driver of Bitcoin? 06:36 – Dividend Cut or Sell Bitcoin? Pricing the Digital Credit Premium 10:57 – Reflexivity vs Past Cycles: The DAT & ETF Twin Poles 17:16 – ETF Holders Underwater followed by $10B in Outflows 18:30 – What Institutions Are Actually Saying During the Drawdown 23:35 – The Long-Term Bull Case for Crypto 27:36 – Tokenized Equities Overtake Memecoins on Solana 29:00 – The XRP ETF Demand 31:45 – Tracking the 13Fs: Who Currently Owns These ETFs? 33:28 – How Big a Deal Is a Billion-Dollar ETF Launch? 35:38 – Why Index Funds Win Over the Long Term 41:23 – The Elephant in the Room: AI & the DRAM ETF Story 47:44 – Making the Bull Case: Real Incomes & Peak Inflation 50:47 – The Week Ahead: What We're Watching

June 18, 20261 hr 1 min

Warsh's Fed Debut, Bitcoin Covered-Call Strategies & Stretch's Dislocation

Recorded June 18, 2026. In the latest CF Benchmarks live X Space, Head of Research Gabe Selby is joined by Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CF Benchmarks Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk, and CF Benchmarks Head of Business Development Peter Stern, with CEO Sui Chung calling in from London. The team also welcomes a special guest: David Lawant, Head of Research at Anchorage Digital and previously head of research at FalconX. The panel grades Kevin Warsh's first FOMC meeting, unpacks the mechanics of synthetic Bitcoin yield from David's new whitepaper on covered call strategies, examines the arrival of covered-call ETFs, and works through the price movements in Strategy's STRETCH preferred. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro, Compliance Note & Team Welcome 03:32 – The FOMC Recap: Rates Held, the Statement Slashed, a Dot Goes Missing 05:46 – Grading Warsh's Debut: The Panel's Report Card 15:17 – Killing the Dot Plot? The Forward Guidance Debate 18:45 – The "Fed Put" & Market Reflexivity 24:11 – Hawkish on Rates or the Balance Sheet? 30:38 – Synthetic Bitcoin Yield: Inside David's latest research piece 34:43 – Bitcoin's Volatility Risk Premium & a Call-Heavy Options Market 37:00 – Covered-Call ETFs Arrive: BlackRock's BITA & Advisor Appetite 42:53 – Muted Basis & Funding: Why Yield-Seekers Turn to Options 44:51 – STRETCH Under Stress: Strategy's Preferred Slips Below Par 47:05 – Reading the Spread: STRETCH vs Peer Yield Products 50:20 – Strategy's Mechanics: USD Reserve, Convert Buyback & the Dividend Standoff 53:28 – The Fast Round: What We're Watching Over the Next Week

June 11, 202659 min

Inflation Prints, Hyperliquid's Rise & the SpaceX IPO

In the latest CF Benchmarks live X Space, recorded June 11, 2026, Head of Research Gabe Selby, CFA is joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk, Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CFA, and CF Benchmarks CEO Sui Chung, with special guest Ishmael Asad, Research Analyst at Bitwise, for a wide-ranging roundtable across macro, markets, and crypto fundamentals. With long-end yields at multi-year highs, a hot CPI and PPI print, and a new Fed chair stepping in the panel works through the following question: when do a string of "one-off" shocks cement into a structural regime? From there the conversation turns to where capital is actually flowing, contrasting a discounted crypto market, Hyperliquid's fundamentals-driven ascent and entry into the CF Large Cap, and a record-breaking SpaceX IPO drawing in a wave of retail demand. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro, Team Welcome & Guest Introduction 02:06 – The Macro Setup: Multi-Year-High Yields, Hot CPI & PPI 04:27 – A 1970s Redux? Oil, Iran & the Incoming Warsh Fed 06:50 – How Long Can "One-Off" Inflation Shocks Continue? 09:11 – Hot Labor Data, Rate-Hike Odds & a Global Liquidity Squeeze 14:08 – A View From London: Political Shocks & Stagflation Risk 17:10 – When Good News Is Bad News: Labor Market Cracks & Capital Rotation 19:58 – Spotlight on Hyperliquid: Inside CFB's New Valuation Framework 21:25 – HYPE's Economics: ~$1B Revenue, an 83% Margin & a 61x TTM Multiple 24:20 – Why a Scalable 24/7 Model Commands a Premium 26:13 – HYPE's Institutional Bid: ETF Flows & the Coinbase Deal 28:38 – HYPE Joins the CF Large Cap at Number Five 32:29 – Index Inclusion Explained: Why SpaceX Can't Join the S&P 500 Yet 37:14 – The Bear Case: Token Unlocks & Supply Overhang 39:55 – Hyperliquid's Competition & the Perps Landscape 44:33 – The SpaceX IPO: What Are Investors Looking At? 47:54 – Orbital AI: The Interstellar Data Center Narrative 49:40 – Elon's Playbook: Narrative, Multiples & "Populist Liquidity" 53:16 – Rapid Fire: The Week Ahead

June 5, 202655 min

Rate-Hike Fears, AI's Pull on Miners & Crypto's Capitulation

This episode was recorded live via X Spaces - audio quality varies in places. Recorded June 4, 2026, the latest CF Benchmarks live X Space finds Head of Research Gabe Selby, CFA joined by Research Analyst Mark Pilipczuk, Kraken Chief Economist Thomas Perfumo, CFA, and CF Benchmarks Product Manager Jen Wang, with special guest John Todaro, Managing Director of crypto and AI/HPC equity research at Needham. With Bitcoin near $63,500 after thirteen straight days of ETF outflows, the panel works through what a tightening capital markets backdrop, renewed rate-hike risk, and an unresolved US-Iran oil shock mean for digital assets. The conversation turns to why public Bitcoin miners are racing to become AI infrastructure landlords, how MicroStrategy and the new wave of treasury companies are faring under pressure, and where genuine fundamentals are still separating the winners from the noise. 00:00 – Intro & Team Welcome 01:09 – Meet the Guest: Needham's John Todaro 02:48 – Data Check: Bitcoin Near $63.5K as the BVX Spikes 04:23 – Are Fed Rate Hikes Back on the Table? 06:50 – Looking Through the Oil Shock: The Hormuz Premium 08:25 – How Rates Hit Crypto Equities vs. AI Infrastructure 11:37 – Is Bitcoin Mining a Dying Business? 14:11 – Supply Constraints: GPUs, IREN–Nvidia & the Power Bottleneck 18:10 – Public vs. Private Miners: The Great HPC Bifurcation 22:47 – MicroStrategy's First BTC Sale Since 2022 & the Capital Markets Squeeze 27:39 – Why Institutions Want Operating Cash Flows, Not Just Treasuries 30:36 – BitMine's 9.5% Preferred: Does Staking Yield Change the DAT Math? 33:14 – Crypto's Strangest Chart: Hyperliquid, Its ETF & "Fundamentals Not Vibes" 36:29 – The Echo Chamber: Is This Really Capitulation? 38:27 – Bitcoin's Technical Setup & the $59–60K Demand Zone 41:19 – HYPE Joins the CF Capitalization Series (Jen Wang) 42:58 – Reading the Vol Surface: Where the Protection Bid Sits 44:48 – CME BVX Futures Go Live: A Hedging Playbook & the ETN Pipeline 49:58 – Week Ahead: Clarity Act, ERCOT, FOMC & Friday Payrolls 56:16 – Closing Remarks The information contained within is for educational and informational purposes ONLY. It is not intended nor should it be considered an invitation or inducement to buy or sell any of the underlying instruments cited including but not limited to cryptoassets, financial instruments or any instruments that reference any index provided by CF Benchmarks Ltd. This communication is not intended to persuade or incite you to buy or sell security or securities noted within. Any commentary provided is the opinion of the author and should not be considered a personalised recommendation. Please contact your financial adviser or professional before making an investment decision. Note: Some of the underlying instruments cited within this material may be restricted to certain customer categories in certain jurisdictions.