Build a Better Agency Podcast

Hosted by Drew McLellan

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577

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Oct 2026

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Scale and grow your agency with better clients, invested employees, and a stronger bottom line, with Drew McLellan.

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October 18, 202654 min

Episode 576 Lessons in Agency Leadership with Stacy Jones

Welcome to another inspiring episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan sits down with longtime agency owner Stacy Jones to discuss the hard-earned lessons and deep insights behind her new business parable, "Dragons and Doors." If you've ever felt the pressure of forging your own path, facing daunting challenges, or wondering how to truly move your agency forward, this conversation is a must-listen. Stacy Jones opens up about her winding journey through the world of agency ownership—sharing both the victories and the setbacks that shaped her over nearly two decades in the business. Together, she and Drew McLellan explore the central metaphor of her book: the "doors" (opportunities) and "dragons" (challenges) we all encounter, and the resilience required to move through uncertainty. Listeners will get candid insights into why setbacks matter, how failure becomes a teacher, and the universal truths that every agency owner should recognize as they grow their business and lead their teams. The episode also dives into the human side of leadership, from understanding personal and team core values, to learning how to avoid over-rescuing employees, to finding balance between relentless drive and necessary rest. Stacy Jones shares her own moments of overwork, vulnerability, and growth, revealing how introspection—and even failure—can pave the way for greater agency success and personal fulfillment. Tune in for practical wisdom on decision-making, fostering a strong work culture, and building agency resilience in the face of unexpected turns. Whether you're navigating a tough moment or celebrating a big win, you'll walk away from this episode with renewed motivation to embrace your journey—dragons, doors, and all. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: Embracing failure and resilience as central to agency growth Recognizing and navigating doors (opportunities) and dragons (challenges) in agency ownership The evolution of instincts and decision-making through experience The impact of core values on agency culture and leadership Balancing self-sacrifice with personal well-being and growth Developing teams by allowing space for mistakes and learning Finding purpose and having faith in your journey as an agency leader

October 11, 20261 hr 5 min

Episode 575 A Framework for Vetting a Business Partner with Drew McLellan

Welcome to another insightful episode of Build a Better Agency! In this solo cast, Drew McLellan continues his deep dive into the complexities of agency partnerships, offering a practical framework for agency owners considering bringing on a business partner. Picking up from last month's episode—which focused on self-reflection, motivations, and evaluating if partnership is truly the right answer—Drew McLellan now guides listeners through an essential step-by-step process for vetting and integrating a potential partner. Listeners can expect an in-depth discussion of a multi-phase framework designed to slow down the excitement of new partnerships and ensure critical conversations happen before any agreements are signed. Drew McLellan walks through topics such as personal and professional alignment, candid money talks, and even how to "test drive" the partnership with real-world collaboration. He emphasizes the importance of understanding each other's financial habits, stress behavior, and life goals to avoid costly, painful mistakes down the road. The episode doesn't shy away from hard truths. Drew McLellan details red flags and yellow flags that should prompt caution or even a stop to the process, underscoring the gravity of a decision that can shape both business and personal futures. Rather than offering a one-size-fits-all answer, the episode provides pathways for owners who decide partnership isn't right, including alternatives like strong #2s, peer groups, and advisory boards. Whether you're already in talks with a prospective partner or just beginning to consider it, this episode equips you with actionable tools and a clear-eyed perspective for one of the most significant decisions you'll make as an agency owner. By the end, you'll have a practical roadmap, a better understanding of your own needs, and the confidence to chart the best path forward for your agency's future success. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: The critical importance of slow, thorough due diligence before entering a partnership Essential alignment conversations about personal goals, financial expectations, and decision-making processes The need for candid, sometimes uncomfortable discussions about money, risk, and stress Testing potential partnerships through real work scenarios and stress situations Recognizing and acting on red and yellow flags during the evaluation process Alternatives to partnerships, such as a strong number 2, peer groups, or advisory boards The value of honest self-reflection in determining whether a partner is truly needed

October 4, 20261 hr 0 min

Episode 574 The Power of Differentiation and Agency Growth with Barry LaBov

Welcome to a thought-provoking episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan is joined by agency owner and author Barry LaBov for an in-depth conversation about the power—and business necessity—of true differentiation. Drawing from over four decades of agency experience and the insights in his latest book, Barry LaBov unpacks why standing out in a crowded, commoditized market is more crucial than ever for agencies and their clients. Together, Drew McLellan and Barry LaBov challenge the assumption that differentiation has to mean being superior. Instead, you'll hear how uncovering—rather than inventing—your agency's or client's unique attributes can transform your relationships, energize your team, and drive growth. Barry LaBov draws parallels between leading an agency and performing in a rock band, emphasizing a collaborative, open culture where every voice plays a part in generating innovative ideas. The conversation tackles practical strategies for embedding new business development into agency culture, celebrating innovation even when an idea isn't purchased, and why making clients look like heroes is the ultimate win. Barry LaBov also shares actionable techniques for discovering hidden points of distinction within your own agency or for clients, turning seemingly mundane details into signature differentiators that fuel pride and retention. Don't miss this episode if you're ready to move beyond the surface of agency branding and dig deeper into what truly sets you apart. By the end, you'll have a fresh perspective—and a toolkit of inspiring ideas—for making differentiation a tangible, energizing force in your business. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: Building a collaborative agency culture modeled after a rock band Encouraging all team members to contribute ideas, regardless of department Prioritizing ongoing idea generation and proactive client engagement Recognizing and celebrating employee efforts, not just business wins Understanding the true drivers of differentiation for clients and agencies The value of discovering, naming, and promoting unique attributes Aligning agency growth with strengthening client relationships and trust

September 27, 202648 min

Episode 573 Mastering Leadership Credibility with Steve Farber

Welcome to another can't-miss episode of Build a Better Agency! Host Drew McLellan welcomes back Steve Farber, bestselling author of The Radical Leap and co-author (with legendary leadership researchers Jim Kouzes and Barry Posner) of the brand new book The Radical Promise: Mastering the Art of Doing What You Say You Will Do, for a conversation about leadership credibility and what it actually takes to become a leader your team can count on. In this episode, Farber unpacks why so many leaders accidentally erode trust without ever meaning to. You'll learn how unintentional promises quietly damage leadership credibility, why bad time management and a nice-guy tendency to say yes create hidden say-do gaps, and why Farber believes people who consistently follow through on their word are exceedingly rare, and therefore a massive competitive advantage. Farber and Drew dig into the practical side of closing that gap, including a simple weekly journaling exercise for tracking intentional and unintentional commitments, the baseball inspired strikes analogy for understanding when an apology stops working, and the idea of developing a contractual attitude so that every promise, however casual it sounds, gets treated like a commitment. They also talk about why inviting your team to give you feedback on your own follow-through is one of the fastest ways to build trust. Whether you're a new agency owner trying to set the tone for your team, a veteran leader who suspects you've got a say-do gap or two of your own, or simply someone who wants clients and staff to see you as someone whose word is truly their bond, this episode gives you a real framework for closing the gap. Tune in to find out how doing what you say you will do can become your agency's biggest differentiator. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: The pivotal role of credibility and trust in effective leadership Why consistently doing what you say you will do sets agencies apart How unintentional promises can still undermine your leadership Practical ways to identify and close your own "say-do" gaps The power of a "contractual attitude" in both words and actions Why holding yourself accountable comes before holding others accountable How a culture of reliability inside the agency translates to stronger client relationships

September 20, 202658 min

Ep 572: Operational Efficiency in the AI Era with Michael Greenberg

Welcome to a thought-provoking episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan confronts a topic that every agency leader needs to address: operational inefficiency and the hidden costs it creates. Joined by operational efficiency expert Michael Greenberg, Drew explores why so many agencies find themselves drowning in disconnected tech stacks, tribal knowledge, and manual processes—and what it really takes to fix it. Drawing from his extensive experience in agency operations and as the author of a book on digital maturation, Michael Greenberg breaks down his five-level framework for operational excellence. Listeners will discover how most agencies get stuck at "Level 2," juggling a mess of cloud-based tools that don't talk to each other, and why that bottleneck blocks the path to real AI adoption. Together, Drew and Michael pull back the curtain on "operational debt" and "operational drag"—those silent killers of growth and profit—and walk through real-world case studies, including agencies faced with integrating multiple acquired firms and their overlapping systems. You'll hear step-by-step strategies for moving your agency forward, from getting buy-in across your team to documenting processes and making smart technology choices. They discuss practical ways to quantify the cost of inefficiency, shortcuts for finding your biggest wins, and even how to gamify process improvement so change actually happens. Plus, Michael shares the single easiest place to start leveraging AI—no full tech overhaul required. This episode is a must-listen if you're feeling overwhelmed by tech bloat, turnover risk, or simply want your agency to be faster, more scalable, and ready for the future. Walk away with actionable tactics to build consistency, boost client confidence, and unlock the next level of profitability—no matter where you're starting. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: Understand the five levels of operational maturity, from information silos to fully AI-powered operations, and where most agencies actually land Learn why "operational debt" and tribal knowledge quietly cost agencies six figures a year in lost time and inconsistent client delivery Discover the exact order, people, process, then tools, that determines whether an AI rollout succeeds or stalls Hear a real case study of an agency that cut eight of thirteen overlapping software subscriptions and recovered $50,000 Learn the "Rule Zero" habit (always be recording) that gives any agency an immediate, low-effort AI win Understand why client intake, onboarding, and weekly progress reporting are the highest-ROI processes to fix first Get Greenberg's take on how to win team buy-in for new tools and processes, including two of his favorite incentive tricks Learn what kind of technical skill your team actually needs to start automating agency operations Discover Greenberg's prediction for how fast agencies will need to mature over the next two years compared to other industries

September 13, 202650 min

Episode 571 Build Winning Teams Through Agency Leadership with Lucy Stratton

Welcome to another insightful episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan sits down with Lucy Stratton, CEO and longtime team member of AgencyEA, to explore her remarkable journey from entry-level sales assistant to sitting at the helm. If you've ever considered succession planning, agency leadership, or simply wondered what it takes to thrive within one organization for decades, this episode is tailor-made for you. Lucy Stratton shares her unique story, beginning with her move to Chicago and initial freelance work at AgencyEA, to ultimately steering the agency through an ESOP transition as CEO. Along the way, she discusses the value of deep institutional knowledge, the benefits and challenges of working with a tightly knit team, and why staying attuned to external perspectives helps avoid insularity as your agency evolves. Her first-hand account offers an authentic look at how agency culture, consistent growth, and intentional talent development contribute to long-term success. Together, Drew McLellan and Lucy Stratton unpack the practical realities of succession, including the importance of financial rigor, the surprises and challenges of moving from a specialized role into broad leadership, and how CEOs can balance the ever-present tension between creative vision and business responsibility. They explore how success metrics change for leaders, why leadership fulfillment needs to come from team development rather than individual wins, and strategies for staying innovative as an agency. Don't miss this candid conversation if you're navigating your own leadership path, pondering agency ownership, or looking for ways to foster both stability and creativity within your organization. By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with actionable insights on preparing for the top job, building great teams, and leading agencies into new, exciting chapters. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: Navigating the unique journey from entry-level to agency CEO The value—and challenges—of growing within a single agency Retaining culture while avoiding insularity through fresh perspectives The evolving role and impact of experiential marketing Preparing for leadership transitions and the importance of open conversations Bridging gaps in financial rigor during ownership changes Finding new sources of fulfillment as CEO beyond individual achievement

September 6, 20261 hr 14 min

Episode 570 Nine Non-negotiables When Considering A Partnership with Drew McLellan

Welcome to a solo episode of Build a Better Agency! In this candid and thought-provoking installment, Drew McLellan tackles a crucial aspect of agency life that many leaders eventually confront—whether or not to take on a business partner. If you've ever found yourself yearning for someone to share the load, or wondering if partnership could be the solution to your fatigue or succession worries, this episode is a must-listen. Drawing on decades of experience as both an agency owner and consultant, Drew McLellan breaks down the realities of agency partnerships, cautioning leaders to be mindful of the pressures—industry consolidation, slower growth, shrinking profits, succession uncertainty, and the transformative impacts of AI—that might make partnership seem like an easy way out. Instead, he presents a practical, two-layered framework for evaluating if a partnership truly serves your business and personal goals: first, by outlining 9 universal non-negotiables that any candidate must clear, and second, by prompting deep self-reflection to determine if a partner is truly the right fit for you. You'll learn to distinguish between needing a partner versus simply wanting a strong number two, how to identify red flags in potential partners, and why urgent or emotional decisions can lock you into difficult, often irreversible arrangements. Drew McLellan also shares actionable advice on alternatives—like compensation structures or peer support—that may better address your needs without the complexity of new ownership. Whether you're actively considering a partnership, responding to industry trends, or simply feeling the unique pressures of agency ownership, this episode will give you the clarity, criteria, and confidence to make the best decision for the future of your business and your own peace of mind. Don't miss Drew McLellan's expert guidance on one of the most impactful choices any agency owner can make. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: The realities and pressures driving agency owners to consider partnerships Universal non-negotiables for evaluating potential business partners Distinguishing between needing a partner versus a strong number two Common partnership myths and how they lead to costly mistakes Why internal alignment and self-awareness are critical before pursuing partnership Alternatives to partnership for agency owners seeking support or relief The high stakes and lasting impact of making the wrong partnership decision

August 30, 202647 min

Episode 569 Why Human Insight Still Beats AI Profiles with Laurence Metrick

Welcome to another insightful episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan is joined by industry veteran Laurence Metrick, founder of Trailer Works and author of the new book Your Audience Has a Heart, Not Just a Profile. Together, they tackle the timely and complex intersection of AI, agency life, and the enduring value of genuine human connection. Drawing on over three decades of agency experience, Laurence Metrick shares stories and lessons from both his career journey and his latest book. They examine how the increasing reliance on AI for pattern recognition, speed, and even emotional insights is reshaping both client expectations and agency roles. Laurence Metrick makes a compelling case for why care—not just creativity—is the new currency for agencies that want to serve and retain their most valuable clients in an AI-rich marketplace. The conversation dives deep into practical strategies for infusing more humanity into agency work, including unique staff training approaches, the importance of storytelling, and staying curious about real human experiences. Drew McLellan and Laurence Metrick discuss observational research techniques—like the "cocktail party focus group"—and why true insight into client audiences can never be fully automated. Real-world anecdotes, from tennis club revelations to sleep clinic advertising, illustrate how nuanced understanding, empathy, and direct observation lead to greater effectiveness than mere technological efficiency ever could. If you're asking yourself how to future-proof your agency in the age of automation—or simply seeking inspiration to reconnect with the heart of your work—this episode is a must-listen. You'll walk away with actionable ideas for cultivating deeper team and client relationships, leveraging technology wisely, and ensuring your agency's unique value shines brighter than ever. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: The enduring value of human insight in an AI-driven world Care as the new creativity: strengthening client and customer connections Why efficiency doesn't always lead to effectiveness in marketing The evolving role of agencies as creative conductors and curators Teaching the next generation to observe and understand real human behavior Reviving fieldwork and in-person experiences for deeper audience insights Adapting agency structures for a future of storytelling and nimble teams

August 23, 20261 hr 4 min

Episode 568 Leading with Creativity and Bravery with Todd Henry

Welcome to another inspiring episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan welcomes creativity expert and acclaimed author Todd Henry for a deep dive into the world of creative leadership and navigating the pressures of producing excellent work on demand. Together, they unpack what it means to be a creative professional in agencies today—where creativity isn't just a job title, but a way of approaching problem-solving at every level, from design to client service to strategy. Todd Henry brings his wealth of knowledge, sharing how his journey from music to creative direction led him to discover the foundational disciplines behind sustainable and joyful creative work. They explore why it's essential to develop personal practices, not just to avoid burnout, but to consistently deliver compelling, innovative results—even in high-pressure, deadline-driven environments. If you've ever felt the exhaustion of "being creative on demand" or wondered how to keep your team inspired, you'll find Todd's five-part "FRESH" framework for creative rhythm both practical and energizing. Listen in as Drew and Todd discuss the importance of balancing stability and challenge as leaders, fostering healthy team cultures, and deliberately creating space for "unnecessary creation"—the projects and hobbies that stoke your creative fire outside of client demands. They also tackle the timely topic of AI, examining how agencies can leverage new technologies without losing the vital human touch that drives taste, discernment, and authentic connection in the work. Whether you're an agency owner, team leader, or emerging creative, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you foster braver, more authentic creativity in yourself and your team. By the end, you'll be inspired to bring more "verve" to your work, champion a culture of curiosity and courage, and ensure your agency's creative edge remains sharp in a rapidly changing industry. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: Embracing creativity as problem-solving for all agency roles Building sustainable creative practices beyond daily project work The power of intentional input and diverse inspiration sources Balancing stability and challenge when leading creative teams Making bravery a habit: maintaining integrity under pressure Using AI as a tool to augment, not replace, human creativity The importance of unnecessary creating to fuel joy and growth

August 16, 20261 hr 0 min

Episode 567 AI Commercialization Strategies for Agencies with Shawn Yeager

Welcome to another insightful episode of Build a Better Agency! This week, host Drew McLellan welcomes Shawn Yeager, founder of Upshift, for a candid conversation about the seismic shifts AI is creating in the agency world. Together, they go beyond the hype and headlines, examining how agencies can genuinely commercialize AI—not just adopt new tools, but strategically redesign what they sell and how they deliver unique value in an AI-enabled marketplace. In this episode, Shawn Yeager draws on more than 30 years at the intersection of technology and business, sharing a roadmap for agency leaders. He explains the three traps many agencies fall into when adopting new technology—becoming more efficient but less profitable, becoming educated without application, and buying into platforms without changing go-to-market strategy. Drew McLellan and Shawn Yeager also break down the difference between operational AI (streamlining internal processes) and commercial AI (transforming what you offer clients), and why the latter is critical for agency growth and survival. Listeners will discover practical frameworks to evaluate service offerings, price on outcomes (even when clients aren't sure how to measure them), and proactively use AI to become indispensable advisors—not just vendors. Shawn Yeager discusses the blend of efficiency and artistry required in the modern agency, how to avoid the risks of commoditization, and why focusing on judgment, relationships, and the "decision sandwich" will separate thriving agencies from those left behind. If you're looking for actionable steps to future-proof your agency, navigate staffing shifts, or reimagine your client relationships in light of AI's rapid evolution, you won't want to miss this episode. By the end, you'll have new strategies and a fresh mindset for turning the AI revolution into your agency's greatest opportunity. A big thank you to our podcast's presenting sponsor, White Label IQ . They're an amazing resource for agencies who want to outsource their design, dev, or PPC work at wholesale prices. Check out their special offer (10 free hours!) for podcast listeners here . What You Will Learn in This Episode: Moving beyond efficiency to true AI-driven business transformation Rethinking agency offerings for an AI-enabled marketplace Shifting from billable hours to outcome-based pricing models Harnessing judgment and expertise as differentiators alongside AI tools Blending scalable, repeatable processes with bespoke, high-touch service Preparing agency staffing models for a shrinking entry-level workforce Proactively evolving client value propositions to stay ahead of commoditization