World Ledger with Coco Kee

Hosted by Coco Kee

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Oct 2026

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World Ledger with Cocoa Kee, your gateway to global perspectives on Bitcoin, blockchain, crypto & digital assets, and AI.

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October 15, 202646 min

Crypto beyond Speculation: Valuation, Token Rights, Agentic Economy with Jason Carpenter, Etherbridge Founder

In-depth discussion between World Ledger’s host Coco Kee and Jason Carpenter , Founder of Etherbridge , convering Etherbridge's framework built around four core investment themes : Outside Money , Trustware , Chain Street (DeFi), and the Agentic Economy, where AI agents transact on-chain; crypto's shift from a speculative noun to a functional verb, driven by six secular forces : regulation, stablecoins, asset tokenization, DeFi mullet, token rights and AI Agents ; common mistakes in crypto asset valuation . Jason shares why developing decentralized alternative infrastructure is a noble pursuit to secure global property rights and financial inclusion for billions worldwide. ✍️ Links: Follow Coco: X: @CocoKee LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cocokee/ Substack: https://worldledger.substack.com Follow Jason: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonkcarpenteretherbridge/ Substack: https://etherbridge.substack.com/ Valuing ETH:https://etherbridge.co/tools/valuing-eth DeFiLLama: https://defillama.com/ Blockworks Token Transparency Framework: https://blockworks.com/token-transparency Timestamps: (00:00) Opening commentary (00:59) Introduction and Jason’s background (01:45) Genesis of Jason's crypto fund and its structure (03:46) South Africa’s crypto landscape & Jason's personal experiences (05:12) What motivated Jason to found his fund Etherbridge (07:38) 4 investment themes (07:57) Outside Money (08:34) Trustware (09:17) Chain Street (10:00) Agentic Economy (10:35) Factors necessary for Agentic Economy to materialize (12:05) 6 secular forces changing crypto's identity and fundamentals (12:58) Comparing 2021 Dot-crypto with 2000 Dot-com (13:49) Force 1 - regulation (14:30) Force 2 - stablecoins (15:00) Force 3 - tokenization (15:49) Force 4 - DeFi mullet (19:35) Force 5 - Token rights Deep Dive (24:08) Two places to find token rights information (25:30) Valuing crypto Assets: 3 common mistakes (25:52) Mistake 1 - not segmenting crypto (29:24) Mistake 2 - overvaluing voting machine over weighing machine (29:58) Mistake 3 - think crypto assets cannot be valued (30:53) The type of tokens that can use traditional valuation methods (31:54) Jason's preferred valuation methodology - expectation-based investing (34:01) Lack of consensus on the valuation of ETH and SOL (40:08) Etherbridge's investment approach and challenges selling to institutions (44:04) Why remain committed to crypto and closingremarks

September 25, 202639 min

Stablecoin Payments: Real-World Use Cases, Fees, Regulation & USDC vs. USDT , with Triple A CCO Kailash Madan

Are stablecoins really becoming a mainstream payment method, or is most of the activity still driven by crypto trading? In this episode of World Ledger, Coco Kee talks with Kailash Madan, Chief Commercial Officer at Triple A, a regulated global stablecoin payments provider, backed by Sequoia Capital’s former Southeast Asia and India investment arm. Kailashexplains how businesses use USDC, USDT, and crypto for payments, how merchants can reduce transaction costs, and why stablecoins are gaining traction in cross-border payments, gaming, travel, FX, and import-export. They also discussregulation, banking relationships, chargebacks, USDC vs. USDT, and why stablecoins and AI agents are the match made in heaven. Stablecoin payments may only be beginning, but the journey is underway. Follow Coco Kee : X: CocoKee | LinkedIn | Substack | YouTube Timestamps (00:00)Episode Overview (01:54)What is Triple A vs. Stripe and Primer? (05:23)How Farfetch accepts stablecoins with fiat settlement without volatility risk (07:24)Managing and hedging stablecoin price volatility (08:21)Why merchants are adopting stablecoin payments (11:26)Fee breakdown: 1% merchant fees vs. 3-4% credit card fees (12:36)High-growth industries & geographic penetration (15:28)Are stablecoin processors a threat to traditional banks? (19:15)Go-to-market strategies for top commercial verticals (24:57)Real-world commerce vs. exchange trading volumes (26:54)Navigating global regulatory fragmentation (29:32)Building critical banking relationships for stablecoin payments (32:06)Chargeback risks and consumer’s preference (35:24)How AI agents will transform stablecoin payments (37:37)The future of stablecoins in global commerce (38:48) Episode Summary

August 21, 2026Episode 3229 min

BTCS, Poland’s Bitcoin DAT 2.0 + Why MiCA Hurts European Startups

Discover BTCS, Poland’s first actively managed Bitcoin treasury company inspired by Strategy, yet distinctly built differently. Warsaw entrepreneur Wojciech Kaszycki reveals how BTCS trades on the Warsaw and Frankfurt exchanges, generating yield on Bitcoin while developing Web3 services, and why European tax structures favor treasury companies over direct crypto ownership. The conversation then turns critical: Wojciech argues thatMiCA is killing innovation and small startups, while Poland’s prolonged fight over implementation and its local MiCA-based laws are hurting Polish crypto companies. Watch or listen to the full discussion of building a Bitcoin treasury company in Europe, navigating regulations, and why MiCA needs a new version to protect startups and innovation. ☛Subscribe to the newsletter: https://worldledger.substack.com for more updates.☛Follow Coco on X: @CocoKee☛Pitch to World Ledger with Coco Kee, email to: worldledger@substack.com (00:00) Introduction (01:10) Turning Coincidence into Opportunities (03:33) Genesis of BTCS and its Vision to Become DAT2.0 (07:21) BTCS in Comparison with Strategy (09:59) BTC ETF vs. BTC DAT in Europe (11:14) DAT's Performance in the Bear Market (13:07) Poland's Tax Incentive for DATs (16:10) Why Is Poland Delaying MiCA Implementation? (18:45) Is MiCA Too Harsh on Innovation? (22:30) EU Policymakers Are Playing Defense Against U.S. Dollar Dominance (24:44) MiCA Favors Big Players and Is Bad for Startups (25:19) Is Bad Legislation Better Than No Legislation? (26:50) Wojtek’s Connection with Asia (28:37) One Piece of Advice to Young Founders

July 13, 2026Episode 3133 min

Inside Asia's RWA Boom: Tokenization, Stablecoins and Regulations with Andy Lee

Andy Lee, Partner at HashKey RWA of HashKey Group, shares his insights on the rapid growth of #tokenizedassets ( real-world assets) #rwa and #assettokenization in Asia, and explains why the region is well-positioned for this emerging asset class. In this episode, we also discuss #ondofinance , #spacexstock tokenization, tokenized securities, and practical market entry strategies for U.S. companies looking to expand into Asia's evolving RWA markets. Andy lays out HashKey Group’s roadmap for RWA initiative. Andy brings a uniquely diverse perspective, with experience spanning banking, gaming at Tencent, fintech and digital banking, and entrepreneurship as the founder of a crypto project with a token listed on Base. At HashKey RWA, he is helping shape the next phase of asset tokenization in Asia. Follow the host Coco Kee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cocokee/ |X:@cocokee | worldledger.substack.comFollowing Andy Lee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andypwlee/ ( 00:20 ) What is the tokenization of RWA? ( 01:18 ) About HashKey Group and Andy Lee ( 03:15 ) How is Asia, e.g. Hong Kong, well-positioned for tokenized securities? ( 05:44 ) Developments in Asia outside Hong Kong and Singapore ( 06:12 ) Why do U.S. companies create RWAs outside the U.S.? Reasons behind Ondo's success. ( 08:28 ) How to sell RWAs in a compliant way to Asia, using Ondo as an example? ( 10:08 ) What are the most common RWA products in Asia and noticeable trends? ( 12:59 ) What are the three soul-searching questions each RWA issuer should ask? ( 15:59 ) Wrapper model vs. fully on-chain model of RWAs ( 19:12 ) What to prepare if considering issuing RWA products in Asia?( 21:28 ) Can SpaceX be tokenized and sold in Hong Kong? ( 22:11 ) Why are RWAs not what most people think? ( 22:58 ) Is RWA a big player's game? ( 25:28 ) What is the major distribution channel for RWAs in Asia? ( 27:19 ) For American companies, how to design RWA products for Asia?( 29:21 ) What is more critical for RWAs, technology or compliance? ( 29:48 ) Which stablecoins are most used for RWAs in Asia? ( 30:54 ) How will Asia's local regulated stablecoins accelerate RWA's growth? When will Hong Kong expect to have its own regulated stablecoins? ( 31:26 ) HashKey Group's plan for next 6-12 months

April 6, 202637 min

[Episode 30] Breaking the Clarity Act Gridlock with Jason Brett

If we had to pick one word to describe how the crypto industry feels right now, it’s anxiety . For Senators, it’s fatigue . There are so many variables and competing interest groups woven into the Clarity Act that the process has become increasingly political. The industry has been asking for regulatory clarity for years, yet progress remains stuck, going nowhere. At the same time, the OCC is facing intense pressure, and even legal threats from banking associations and state regulators over its approvals of crypto-native companies for national trust charters. Meanwhile, commission-level guidance from the SECand CFTC is historic, but for some, it feels more like a temporary sandbox than a lasting solution. Jason unpacks these battles, dives into the root causes behind the controversies, and shares his realistic outlook on what comes next. This is a must-listen episode. Follow Jason: X: @regulatoryjason; LinkedIn ; Forbes : Follow Coco: X: @CocoKee; Substack Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (01:20) Clarity Act stalled in the Senate (01:38) Clarity Act - Difference in voting mechanism between House and Senate (03:20 Clarity Act - 3 major elements (06:31) Clarity Act - Where the major controversies are (10:18) Any clear path for Clarity Act to pass the Senate (11:57) How realistic is it to get Clarity Act passed 2026 (12:50) Procedural Hurdles: Merging the two versions of Clarity Act (14:15) Summary about the hurdles facing Clarity Act and path to pass it (16:17) OCC facing pushback from banking industry and state regulators (21:03) Why new national trust banks approvals for crypto companies upset big banks? (22:38) You don't belong to the banking elite club (24:29) What would happen if banking industry succeeded in the lawsuit against OCC (27:03) Why SEC+CFTC commission-level guidance historic, but still only a temporary solution (33:22) Why SEC's Innovation Exemption (the sandbox) not good enough to some

March 19, 202634 min

Who will win in 2026 - Gold, Industrial Metals, Bitcoin: A Macro Veteran’s Unfiltered Take

What does a veteran macro investor see that most people are missing heading into 2026? My guest Shengbei, who correctly called the #gold trade, the dollar selloff, and the post-August liquidity squeeze, returns to World Ledger to break down what's really driving markets right now. From gold's decade-long structural tailwind and the de-dollarization quietly reshaping global trade, to why he turned bearish on #bitcoin and #crypto , and what Kevin Warsh as the new Fed chair actually means for liquidity, this conversation cuts through the noise. A must-listen for anyone trying to understand the macro forces moving real assets in 2026.Shengbei is the CEO of New York-based GSB Podium Advisors, with over two decades of experience spanning Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank, and senior investment roles at CITIC Securities — one of China's leading financial institutions.( 00:15 ) Introduction and Market Backdrop( 01:16 ) 2025 Review ( 01:45 ) February - April 25, Sell Dollar & Risk Assets, Long Gold( 02:24 ) April - August 25: Long U.S. Equity & Crypto( 03:28 ) August 25 - till now: Long Gold & Global Diversification( 06:28 ) Deep Dive U.S. Market’s Changes( 07:18 ) Why Investors Diversifying from U.S. Dollar-backed Assets( 08:36 ) 2026 Outlook and Key Factors to Monitor: Tariff, Liquidity, AI and Credit Issues( 11:51 ) Will Gold Rally Continue and Why( 13:46 ) Gold and Chinese Currency RMB in Global Trade( 15:49 ) China and its U.S. Treasury Holdings( 17:51 ) Why is the dollar weakening( 19:25 ) Which Assets will Benefit from a Weaker Dollar( 21:42 ) Views on Bitcoin and Strategy and Why he is Bearish( 24:33 ) Liquidity Issue and Solutions( 28:06 ) Kevin Warsh, a Good Pick? Why the Market Sell-off? Fed & Treasury Working together?( 32:13 ) Cut or No Cut by Fed Follow me: X: @CocoKee Subscribe to my newsletter: worldledger.substack.com

March 13, 202634 min

[Episode 29] Gold, Industrial Metals, Bitcoin & the New Fed Chair: A Macro Veteran’s Unfiltered Take on What will Win in 2026

What does a veteran macro investor see that most people are missing heading into 2026? My guest Shengbei, who correctly called the gold trade, the dollar selloff, and the post-August liquidity squeeze, returns to World Ledger to break down what's really driving markets right now. From gold's decade-long structural tailwind and the de-dollarization quietly reshaping global trade, to why he turned bearish on Bitcoin and crypto, and what Kevin Walsh as the new Fed chair actually means for liquidity, this conversation cuts through the noise. A must-listen for anyone trying to understand the macro forces moving real assets in 2026. Shengbei is the CEO of New York-based GSB PodiumAdvisors, with over two decades of experience spanning Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank, and senior investment roles at CITIC Securities — one of China's leading financial institutions. Follow: Shengbei Guo Follow: Coco Kee Following World Ledger: World Ledger newsletter Timestamps: (00:15) Introduction and Market Backdrop (01:16) 2025 Review (01:45) February - April 25, Sell Dollar & Risk Assets, Long Gold (02:24) April - August 25: Long U.S. Equity & Crypto (03:28) August 25 - till now: Long Gold & Global Diversification (06:28) Deep Dive U.S. Market’s Changes (07:18) Why Investors Diversifying from U.S Dollar - backed Assets (08:36) 2026 Outlook and Key Factors to Monitor: Tariff, Liquidity, AI and Credit Issues (11:51) Will Gold Rally Continue and Why (13:46) Gold and Chinese Currency RMB in Global Trade (15:49) China and its U.S. Treasuries Holding (17:51) Why Dollar Weakening (19:25) Which Assets will Benefit from Weaker Dollar (21:42) Views on Bitcoin and Strategy and Why he is Bearish (24:33) Liquidity Issue and Solutions (28:06) Kevin Walsh, a Good Pick? Why the Market Sell-off? Fed & Treasury Working together? (32:13) Cut or No Cut by Fed

August 14, 202550 min

Navigating Regulations and Growth – First Digital’s Devere Bryan on Stablecoin's Path

I sit down with Devere Bryan, Group General Manager of First Digital, the company behind FDUSD stablecoin, and discuss the origins of First Digital, the creation and expansion of FDUSD, its partnership with Binance; Hong Kong's stablecoin sandbox and legislation, the reason they chose to move stablecoin business to BVI; the challenges facing stablecoin issuers and growth opportunities in emerging markets. Devere providesinsights into FDUSD's operations, crisis management, and future growth strategies, and its focus on Asia-Pacific regions. Timestamps : (00:00) - Opening Remarks (00:54) - Brief Introduction to Genesis of First Digital (FD) (03:23) - Hong Kong as a former Launchpad for Crypto Businesses (04:13) - Partnership between FDUSD and Binance (06:14) - FDUSD’s Asia Focus (08:07) - Promising Asian Markets and Emerging Utility for stablecoins, Case Study - Coins.ph (13:22) - Current Utility of stablecoin at This Stage (17:22) - FDUSD's Brief Depeg in April and How FD Handled it (23:04) - Hong Kong Sandbox, Stablecoin Bill and FD’s Decision (30:34) - Challenges in Operating Stablecoins (34:23) - Is Stablecoin Market Winner-Take-All (36:44) - Ways to Diversify Stablecoin Revenue (41:12) - How FD Identifies Growth Opportunities and Diversifies (45:04) - Dominance of Dollar-pegged Stablecoins (47:20) - GENIUS and its Impact on BVI, Cayman, Cook Islands, ADGM of Abu Dhabi (49:12) - Closing Remarks Follow worldledger.substack.com Follow Devere Bryan on LinkedIn

July 6, 202535 min

How to Deliver Trust and Web2-Level Speed for Crypto File Storage? Kyle Tut, Co-founder and CEO, Pinata

On one side, we have centralized storage solutions like AWS; on the other, decentralized platforms such as Filecoin and Arweave. Sitting in between is IPFS, a distributed, peer-to-peer network for data storage and sharing that plays a critical role in the decentralized blockchain ecosystem we're building. Yet, IPFS adoption remains limited, hindered by the high cost of on-chain storage and slow data delivery speeds. Kyle Tut, Co-founder and CEO of Pinata, offers arefreshing perspective. He doesn’t confine his company to the ideological extremes of either centralization or decentralization, nor does he tie it to any single blockchain. Instead, he takes a pragmatic approach to solving theindustry's real-world challenges. You’ll also want to hear his views on NFTs and Memecoins.While some dismiss them as “silly,” Kyle looks beyond the surface to uncover the genuine opportunities and innovation they will bring to the space. His strategies to navigate the volatility of Web3 and views about the next big thing forcrypto offer further insights I’m excited to share with my audience. Follow Kyle and Pinata on X: @kyletut | @pinatacloud; Follow Coco on Substack: worldledger@substack.com , LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cocokee/ and X: @keeglobal Timestamps: (00:00) Opening Remarks, Omaha, Warren Buffett (01:25) Kyle Tut's Background and the Beginning of Pinata (04:48) Comparison of Pinata with Other Centralized and Decentralized Storage Solutions (07:37) IPFS and Its Unique CID and What It Means to Crypto Storage (09:21) Challenges Pinata Is Trying to Solve for Crypto Data Storage (10:37) What Is IPFS and Why It's Powerful (12:36) The Reasons Creators and Developers Use Pinata (15:19) Case Studies: OpenSea and Pump.Fun Partnership with Pinata (17:05) Why Centralized Storage Is Still the Majority of Data Storage (18:43) Pinata's Fee Structure (20:59) Kyle's Take on NFTs and Memecoins and Why They Are Important Regardless of Some Silliness (24:58) Other Market Opportunities: AI, RWAs, DePin, Gaming (31:21) Leading Hubs for NFTs and Memecoins Development (31:53) Strategies to Weather the Volatility of Web3 (34:52) Kyle's Contact Info and Closing Remarks

June 14, 202535 min

TradFi Meets DeFi: the Future of Onchain Asset Management

What happens when traditional finance (TradFi) principles meet the dynamic innovation of decentralized finance (DeFi)? In this episode, I sit down with Martin de Rijke, Head of Growth at Maple Finance, to explore the company's diverse yieldproducts, over-collateralized lending options, cross-chain Syrup offerings, and, most importantly, its risk management framework. Martin shares insights into Maple’s partnership with Cantor Fitzgerald, outlines the company’s growth strategy, and discusses how upcoming U.S. stablecoin regulations could impact firms like Maple. We also reflect on the previous cycle and the key lessons learned. Timestamps: (00:56) Opening Remarks and Self-introduction (02:40) Introduction to Maple Finance (04:05) Maple's Partnership with Cantor Fitzgerald (08:22) Maple's Business Explained in Detail (15:05) Risk Management Mechanism for Underwriting Loans (21:33) On-chain Pool for Lenders and Yield-bearing SyrupUSDC (25:30) Built on Ethereum SyrupUSDC also Live on Solana (26:21) Comparing Ethereum vs.other Chains Regarding TVL (27:17) Growth Strategies and New Products (31:47) Lessons Learned from the Last Cycle and Outlook for DeFi Lending (33:58) Differences in Borrowing & Lending between this Cycle and the Last Cycle (34:34) Implication of U.S. Stablecoin Regulations and whether non-USD Stablecoins Matter (35:46) Closing Remarks Follow me on X: @keeglobal Or on Substack: worldledger.substack.com Follow Martin on X: @martindrijke Follow Maple on X: @maplefinance