AI and the Law

Hosted by 39 Essex Chambers

BusinessInterviews guests

Website RSS feed

Episodes

Latest episode

Oct 2025

Language

About the show

In this series, 39 Essex Chambers’ barristers, Katherine Apps KC and David Mitchell interview each other and guests exploring the legal issues raised by artificial intelligence including what sort of legal regulation is needed, how AI will impact on the legal profession, discrimination challenges, data protection, intellectual property and ownership, contracting issues and the impact on legal education in the future. Guest include: Baroness Shami Chakrobarti CBE, former shadow Attorney General, I Stephanie Boyce, former Law Society President, Bernie Maier, Michihiro Nichi Clifford Chance Japan, Professor Catherine Barnard, University of Cambridge, Patrick Brodie RPC LLP. The podcast series is suitable both for qualified lawyers and those who are curious about the law.

Listen to episodes

17 recent

October 21, 202535 min

Episode 17 - AI and Disclosure

In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Tom Whittaker, Head of AI (Advisory) at Burges Salmon LLP about the uses and perils of AI in complex disclosure exercises. They also discuss the practicalities, challenges and legal issues involved with litigation about large computer systems and AI systems. They discuss some of the recent case law concerning inadvertent disclosure of privileged materials, Civil Procedure rules and international standards.

September 25, 202526 min

Episode 16 - AI and the Courts

In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Saara Idelbi, a new member of 39 Essex Chambers about AI and the Courts. They discuss the recent Divisional Court (England and Wales) case of R(Ayinde) v the London Borough of Hackney [2025] EWHC 1383 (Admin) and guidance to the legal profession. They discuss what that guidance means in practical terms, and highlight the key regulatory and legal issues which arise when using AI for legal practice, both in the UK and internationally. They also discuss inherent features of generative AI, confidentiality, the “slop” problem, hyper-personalisation and practical steps that can be taken to understand the nature of AI in the context of its use both in legal practice and in the Courts.

May 15, 202524 min

Episode 15 - Privacy in the age of generative AI

David Mitchell speaks to Dr Tom West of Privacy International about the challenges which generative AI poses to individual privacy rights. In a wide-ranging discussion looking at the availability and efficacy of existing legal protections, Tom discusses the interventionist response of the Data Protection Authority in Italy to Chat GPT and DeepSeek, what privacy lawyers might glean from big tech competition disputes in the US and drawing on his own background, the lessons that environmental law might offer in terms of the regulation of generative AI.

September 2, 202425 min

Episode 14 - AI and Online Harms

In this episode Katherine Apps KC discusses online safety and online harms with Jessica Zucker, Director in the Online Safety Group at OFCOM, the UK’s communications regulator. They discuss the nature of online harms and both the existing legal powers that apply to UK established Video Sharing Platforms, such as TikTok and OnlyFans. They also discuss Ofcom’s new powers under the UK’s Online Safety Act 2023 and key policy and legal considerations related to issues such as the spread of misinformation, freedom of expression, proportionality, and international convergence and divergence in regulatory standards and the need for those in tech and regulation to work together.

June 27, 202432 min

Episode 13 - AI and the rise of deepfakery

In this episode David Mitchell speaks to Hanna Basha and Mark Jones of Payne Hicks Beach about tackling deepfakes on behalf of clients who are victims of different types of AI-generated deepfakes ranging from image based sexual abuse, commercial exploitation and political disinformation. Drawing on their respective expertise in civil and criminal law, Hanna and Mark discuss the practical issues posed by deepfakes, the legal tools available to victims and shortcomings in the current legal protections.

April 19, 202432 min

Episode 12 - AI and Climate Change

In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with environmental law pioneer Stephen Tromans KC about similarities, differences and lessons which can be learned for AI from the development of environmental, nuclear, chemicals and contaminated land law. They touch on the balance between international and domestic legal toolmaking, the effectiveness, or otherwise, of human rights and the common law and how law can best work in the context of rapidly developing technology and complex market pressures.

November 13, 202322 min

Episode 11 - The Clearview AI judgment: territorial reach and AI regulation

In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Jennie Thelen about the recent judgment of the First Tier Tribunal decision allowing Clearview AI’s appeal against the Information Commissioner’s fine for unlawful data processing for the development, marketing and use of AI software to “scrape” facial data from the internet and social media and for its use in facial recognition software. The Tribunal judgment is one of the first judgments in the EU to consider the scope of the GDPR territoriality provisions for personal data processing relating to monitoring of behaviour, and the carve outs for use in law enforcement by states and one of the first appeals to be heard against the fines levied on Clearview AI by multiple regulators across the world. Katherine and Jennie discuss extra territoriality more generally and the implications of the judgment for software which learns from worldwide data.

November 7, 202335 min

Episode 10 - AI, Freedom of Expression and Civil Liberties

In this episode David Mitchell speaks with Barbora Bukovska from international freedom of expression organisation Article 19 about AI, freedom of expression and civil liberties.  David and Barbora discuss the recent European Court of Human rights judgment on the use of AI facial recognition on the Moscow Metro in Nikolay Glukhin v Russia (application no. 11519/20) in which Article 19 intervened, the proposed EU AI Act, and how other jurisdictions around the world are addressing facial recognition technologies.

October 20, 202330 min

Episode 9 - AI and Intellectual Property

In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Imogen Ireland, Senior Associate at global law firm, Hogan Lovells about AI and Intellectual Property law. Katherine and Imogen talk about who owns and creates AI generated material in copyright law and whether AI can create inventions that could be protected by patent law.They discuss how these issues have arisen in recent cases and how the Courts’ analysis use concepts from other areas of law. They discuss the sorts of practical issue which arise when buying licenses of products which use AI and questions clients can ask so as to mitigate the risks and their predictions for the future.

July 18, 202327 min

Episode 8 - AI in Commercial Litigation Technology

In this episode Eimear McCann, Commercial Director at Trial view, discusses with Katherine Apps KC the uses of AI in commercial litigation software, both to mine large volumes of data and to generate answers, documents such as chronologies and help make commercial litigation more efficient. Eimear and Katherine also discuss the requirements of different Court rules and wider issues around protecting client confidentiality and what is different between working in the tech world and the legal world.