A New Kind of Dialogue

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Sep 2025

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Society is fragmented. Dialogue is how we heal it. Bring the concept of Dialogue into your life and the way you work, through a series of interviews with the author of a New Kind of Dialogue, Peter Garrett. Jane Ball, co-founder of Dialogue Associates, sits down with Peter to reflect on the lifetime of colourful first-hand experiences that have shaped his understanding of human connection, from his childhood growing up in the African bush, to his work bringing groups of hardened criminals and prison guards together in conversation, and his career addressing organisational fragmentation.

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September 12, 202531 min

The remarkable turnaround of one of the UK’s worst-performing prisons

Want to know how to completely transform a failing prison? In the year 2000 HM Prison Dorchester in England was at rock bottom - suffering from the worst culture the Chief Inspector of Prisons said he had ever seen, and dangerously low performance ratings. Conditions for prisoners were terrible and every intervention was met with resistance. In the most challenging environments, Dialogue serves as a powerful tool to bring people together, create empowering relationships, and change. In a few short years, HMP Dorchester was completely transformed - reaching the highest levels of achievement and quality in the UK.This was the beginning of a larger journey transforming a number of prison systems in the UK and US. Telling the story of how they achieved it are co-founders of Dialogue Associates, Jane Ball and Peter Garrett, and former Governor of HMP Dorchester Steve Holland.In this episode you will learn:➡︎ Why every member of an organisation needs to have ownership over its successes➡︎ How to deal with cynicism when you’re starting a journey of radical change➡︎ How prisoners were given a sense of purpose, despite overcrowding and poor conditions➡︎ How a fish tank became an unlikely symbol of transformation and progress!Chapters:(0:00) Intro(2:37) How Steve came to Dorchester(6:12) First memories of the state of the prison before Dialogue(8:30) How the prison drastically changed over a few short years(12:16) A prison on the brink of closure - what changed?(16:30) The methods used to turn the prison around(19:19) Comply, perform, serve, shine(22:53) How to deal with cynical people inside an organisation(24:43) How to improve the resettlement journey(28:07) Why this story is still relevantIf you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode.To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates: https://www.dialogue-associates.com/Buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue: https://www.waterstones.com/book/a-new-kind-of-dialogue/peter-garrett/9781739991104

September 11, 20251 hr 15 min

How a US Department of Corrections came to lead the nation

The performance of a correctional system affects everyone. It affects the lives of those incarcerated or on probation, and it has a far reaching ripple effect throughout the community. The performance is measured by reoffending rates and public safety. Virginia Department of Corrections became the best performing department of corrections in the US, with the lowest reoffending rate, after choosing to become a healing environment and introducing dialogue across the agency. In 2010, in-coming Director Harold Clarke faced the same challenges many leaders find: fragmentation between organisational silos; a command and control culture; and poor understanding of the real purpose of corrections - rehabilitation. The intervention of Dialogue brought together leaders, staff, stakeholders and the men and women under their supervision in a way they had never seen before. The introduction of the Healing Environment concept reshaped the corrections system - leaving a lasting legacy of change.So how did they do it? Recalling their experiences are co-founders of Dialogue Associates Jane Ball and Peter Garrett, and former VADOC Director Harold Clarke. Together they tell the story of how the department came have the lowest recidivism rate in the nation for 2 years of 7 - cutting reoffending rate to just 17.6% in 2025.In this episode you will learn:➡︎ How to change a command-and-control culture and establish a healing environment in any organisation➡︎ How to spread Dialogue through an organisation - without costing a fortune.➡︎ Why decision-making must be a collective process if you want to make real, lasting change.➡︎ Why leaders need to practise what they preach and model the way for others to follow.Chapters:(0:00) Intro(0:56) Harold enters the Department of Corrections(5:44) Introducing the healing environment concept(8:40) The first foray into Dialogue(10:38) Why change starts from the leaders(17:00) Challenges of making change in a big State(22:34) The end of the Dialogue journey(31:56) Serving the Commonwealth of Virginia(34:48) Making a cultural shift with 13,000 people(39:34) Developing Dialogue practitioners(46:07) Is it costly to bring Dialogue into an organisation?(49:23) Dave Robinson - an integral part of the transformation(50:22) Learning teams(51:51) How to live Dialogue - and get beyond training(53:28) Why every voice has to matter(56:53) Reflecting on 6 years of Dialogue work(57:59) Working Dialogues(1:05:18) Closing thoughtsIf you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode.To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates: https://www.dialogue-associates.com/Buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue: https://www.waterstones.com/book/a-new-kind-of-dialogue/peter-garrett/9781739991104

December 2, 2024Episode 1146 min

How YOU Can Bring Dialogue Into Your Workplace - Improve Your Team and Organisation Now

Inspired by the message of A New Kind of Dialogue? Ready to bring Dialogue into your workplace - to heal the fractures in your team and organisation? Jane and Peter offer a solution that’s simple to use and could change the way you work forever. Moving beyond the messages of the book, this unexpected 11th episode serves as a bridge between the podcast and what’s next - a brand new course titled Dialogic Teamwork. With tips on how you can benefit from Dialogue in a team or on a wider organisational level, Jane and Peter explain why you should make an investment in Dialogue, and explore the benefits of their new self-managed solution. In this episode you will learn: To identify how good your team is, really - and whether you could be doing better when it comes to enjoyment, engagement, trust and transparency. Why Dialogic skills need to be held collectively, within the whole team. How the Dialogic Teamwork course works; a self-managed, cost-effective, accessible programme designed for group learning. The power of learning through actions and reflections. Highlights: (4:25) Hope in Dialogue (8:37) Changing organisations (15:22) Introducing Dialogic Teamwork (21:37) How good is your team, really? (29:50) How the DT programme works (35:48) Creating system wide change (39:57) The fundamentals of working through Dialogue (44:24) Get involved with Dialogic Teamwork About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To sign up for the Dialogic Teamwork program, visit https://www.dialogicteamwork.com To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit https://www.dialogue-associates.com/ To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, visit https://www.waterstones.com/book/a-new-kind-of-dialogue/peter-garrett/9781739991104. Also available as an eBook.

March 6, 2024Episode 1058 min

The World Needs Dialogue - Birth of the Academy of Professional Dialogue

Dialogue is not just a solution for organisations - they’re just the beginning. Dialogue could be, and is the answer to healing all of the world’s problems. The potential is vast and unending, but how to make it reach this wider consciousness? Delving into the final chapters of Peter’s book, we learn how Dialogue is now beginning to reach all corners of the globe, as its wider societal impact is furthered through the creation of the Academy of Professional Dialogue. And as the final episode of the series, Jane and Peter reflect on what they’ve each learned from recording this podcast and the many stories that have come up along the way. This is where it all ends. But don’t worry, the story continues. Stay tuned for what’s next from Jane and Peter. In this episode you will learn: Why it was important to establish Dialogue as a profession, implementing accreditation, rather than simply creating a Dialogue network. The most refined version of what Dialogue is, and how the academy defines the practice. Why Dialogue requires long-term thinking, inner inquiry and thinking from the perspective of the whole. Why the time is NOW for you to give Dialogue a go. Highlights: (4:14) Establishing a profession of Dialogue (9:32) What does the academy do? (14:09) A definition of Dialogue (22:10) The time has come (27:43) The need for Dialogue (30:19) A question from Thomas Kottner (33:33) Reflections on the podcast (40:14) Inner inquiries (44:10) Thinking from the perspective of the whole (49:43) I want to change the WORLD (53:26) An intimidating council meeting (55:12) The final question With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Special Guest: Thomas Kottner, experienced Executive Coach and Trustee of the Academy of Professional Dialogue. About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates.To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.

February 28, 2024Episode 951 min

Rooting Out Fragmentation - Dialogue Becomes Whole

Everything Peter - and you - has learned about Dialogue now becomes whole. Here we see an integrated model develop, punctuated by four impactful theories which blend together everything from consciousness to how Dialogue makes change happen. Through compelling anecdotes and personal experiences, Peter then leads a discussion about the eight axioms of Dialogue, which draw on the narrative and learnings from the story so far. Principles like “nothing happens by chance” and “fragmentation is a generic problem in the world”. In this episode you will learn: What an integrated model is and why it’s important to pull together many practices and theories, like these, so each element becomes an echo of the other. About each of the eight axioms of Dialogue and how they can be integrated into your way of thinking about the world. That there is hope. We can heal all of the problems that exist in the world, by addressing the root cause - fragmentation. What you need to know if you have come this far and want to become a Dialogue practitioner yourself! Highlights: (1:52) What is an “integrated model”? (5:05) The four theories of Dialogue (6:27) The Dialogic theory of the thing (11:14) The Dialogic theory of change (14:19) The Dialogic theory of practice (16:47) The Dialogic theory of the person (21:02) The 8 axioms of Dialogue (32:26) The Dialogic intention and the role of the practitioner (41:20) Learning the intentions (44:48) A question from Jim Tebbe With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Special Guest: Jim Tebbe, member of the professional standards and accreditation board of the Academy of Professional Dialogue. About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates. To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.

February 21, 2024Episode 859 min

Finding a Common Understanding - Healing the Fragmentation

Dialogue has found a place in all types of organisations, from prisons to SMEs to multinational corporations. It has moved beyond single team interventions to something that impacts and changes whole systems. But how it does that depends on the type of system it’s being introduced into - open or closed reporting lines. In this episode Peter shares examples of open and closed systems he’s worked with and explains the different ways Dialogue has addressed fragmentation in both. And he explores how you can most effectively open communication within an organisation by using Dialogue as a research methodology. In this episode you will learn: About Peter’s theory of ‘two in agreement’ and what traits he looks for in the leaders and teams he works with How Dialogue can reposition a command and control style leadership About the gang and drug culture of Trinidad, and why Peter was asked to intervene How to turn Dialogue into research, so it can be converted into action Highlights: (3:10) Why does Dialogue need an architecture? (6:07) Two in agreement - what Peter looks for in a leader (9:19) The story of Tufan Erginbilgic, who did things differently (14:34) Harold Clarke and dealing with a command and control leadership (26:26) Serving the Commonwealth of Virginia (29:28) The Offender Resettlement Journey (34:19) Dialogue as systemic architecture in open systems - working in Trinidad (43:04) Migration work (47:35) Dialogue as a research methodology (51:55) Why Jane and Peter end up in extreme situations (54:31) Question from June Boyle With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Special Guest: June Boyle, an expert in HR and organisational effectiveness and chair of the board at Napier University. About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates. To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.

February 14, 2024Episode 759 min

ALL people are intelligent and compassionate, revealed through DIALOGUE

What exactly is Dialogue? Its applications have proven to be numerous and its impact undeniable. But until now we’ve not offered a structured definition. That doesn’t work so well in the world of business, where deadlines need to be met and budgets spent wisely. So, to get into organisations, the main source of fragmentation in our world, Peter gets to work codifying the practice he’s been developing all these years. In this episode you will learn: That fragmentation doesn’t just exist within organisations, but that organisations are the main source of fragmentation in our society. Why ‘check-ins' are an essential ingredient to meaningful Dialogue, and how to use them yourself. The difference between the Dialogic ‘modes’ - monologue, debate, discussion, conversation, skilful conversation, Dialogue and Generative Dialogue. About the Dialogic Principles and how the ‘process’ of Dialogue uncovers the roots of an organisation’s issues and problems. Highlights: (1:47) Organisations are the main source of fragmentation in our society (5:26) Getting senior leadership to take up Dialogue (12:11) Introducing the Dialogic modes (16:03) The Dialogic actions based on David Kanto’s Four Player model (21:18) How an organisation benefits from Dialogue (24:39) Dialogue as a practise and codifying the model (37:17) The Leading Energies: four ways to think about leadership (41:54) Dialogue as a process (46:48) The Dialogic principles (51:38) Question from guest speaker Parvin Daeipour With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Special Guest: Parvin Daeipour, a clinical psychologist who has been running the Endless path of Dialogue Institute in Tehran for over 20 years. About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates.To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.

February 7, 2024Episode 659 min

Why organisations are fragmented, and how ‘radical openness’ can fix them

From prisons to the corporate world of organisations, the remit of Dialogue expands further as Peter looks to heal ‘a pervasive area of fragmentation’ in our society. First we canter through Peter’s fascinating history within organisations, beginning with his first day in school, right through to working as a builder’s merchant, a bank cleric, running his own businesses and becoming a consultant. All of this unpacking Peter’s many learnings that led him to bring Dialogue into the workplace - and in particular, within the BP offices in Grangemouth, Scotland. In this episode you will learn: Why the disconnect between ‘Head Office’ and workers on the ground creates so much fragmentation within organisations That good managers support the development of their team members, even when it’s time for them to leave and find a new job The true meaning of work ‘culture’, and how to create healthy containers How Peter’s theory of ‘radical openness’ changed the game for many of BP’s businesses Highlights: (0:00) Intro (2:01) Lessons from Peter’s first day at school (6:33) Peter’s first paid role (11:56) The influence of Peter’s dad (14:47) The problem with ‘Head Office’ and good vs poor containers (25:43) Running his own businesses (29:02) Beginning of Peter’s consultancy work (34:28) Why teaching became part of the process of Dialogue (37:34) First consulting gig at BP in Grangemouth (41:41) The theory of “radical openness” (47:10) Yet another f***ing reorganisation (55:11) A question from Meg Bower With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Special Guest: Meg Bower, Owner of Trunk Branch Twig Bud, LLC About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates. To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.

January 31, 2024Episode 553 min

Hitmen, sex offenders and serial murderers: Transforming prisons through Dialogue

By this point in the story, Dialogue had become a firm fixture at HMP Whitemoor, and Peter was regularly convening sessions with some of the most violent criminals in the prison. Like an unexplored part of the world waiting to be travelled, Peter met all manner of people he’d have never otherwise encountered. Whether hitmen or rapists, the stakes were high and the challenges were many, but the value of Dialogue shone through, later taking Peter into HMP Long Lartin and Blakenhurst prisons too. In this episode you will learn: About the challenges of working with such a wide range of incarcerated individuals About a standoff between Peter and a fearsome prisoner who turned up to a Dialogue in his underpants! About the profound impact of community Dialogue sessions, which placed people on parole together with other members of the community And how the violence of the prisoners in one prison wing was so feared, the door to the Dialogue room was taken off its hinges Highlights: (1:42) Experiences from Whitemoor Prison (5:27) Dreadlocks and underpants - Peter’s standoff (11:23) The difficulty of working with serious offenders (13:35) The Right Relationships Conference - a radical innovation (20:35) Dialogue in the community - stories of those on parole (24:17) Beginning Dialogue in HMP Long Lartin (31:29) Another prison - Blakenhurst (36:49) Jane enters the story - Dialogue on F Wing (43:41) How prison changed Dialogue (48:08) A question from Harold Clarke With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Special Guest: Harold Clarke, former Director of Virginia Department of Corrections About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates. To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.

January 24, 2024Episode 458 min

Nine years in a maximum security prison: Dialogue takes Peter behind bars

Amid the tension of violence and power struggles, what started as a hotbed of complaints, swearing and anger, slowly turned into something much greater. Peter charts his journey into a maximum security prison where, over the course of nine years, Dialogue began to shift communication among prisoners and prison officers alike. In this episode you will learn: How it is that Peter came to convene Dialogue groups at HMP Whitemoor following the death of David Bohm. How Peter handled his first prison visits, from a briefing that felt like a scare tactic, to meeting “heavy duty” prisoners, to quelling rising tensions in the room. About the role Jimmy Robinson played in the prison Dialogues - a man cleared of his wrongful sentence after 18 years in prison. And how Dialogue is able to bring out the best in even the most fractured relationships. With this, and every episode, we invite you to reflect both on the stories being told, and also your own first-hand experiences that have guided you to this moment in your life. Highlights: (5:08) A journey of inquiry after David Bohm’s death (12:35) Arriving for the first time at HMP Whitemoor (20:41) First Dialogue session at Whitemoor and the man with the spider tattoo (32:17) How reflection moved the conversation from anger into something more constructive (42:12) The story of Jimmy Robinson (52:34) Special guest Leo Hylton asks his question to Peter Special Guest: Contributing to the show is Leo Hylton, who is currently incarcerated on a long sentence in a US prison. About the Podcast: Your host is Jane Ball, in conversation with Peter Garrett. Together, they unravel the true meaning of Dialogue, exploring how we are all interconnected and why mastering Dialogue can change the way we work and live our lives. If you found today's discussion inspiring, please leave a review, rate us five stars, and subscribe to never miss an episode. Connect with the Hosts: To find out more about Jane and Peter’s work, visit Dialogue Associates. To buy Peter’s book, A New Kind of Dialogue, click the link here. Also available as an eBook.