4-Quarter Lives

Hosted by Avivah Wittenberg-Cox

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131

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Aug 2026

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You are likely to live longer than you think. Are you ready? Science has gifted us ever longer, 100-year lives. This impacts… everything! From couples and careers - to companies and countries. We’ll interview the experts who are exploring the consequences – and the individuals applying it to their own lives and choices. Generational and gender expert Avivah Wittenberg-Cox talks with people designing new ways of living, working and loving at all ages – across life’s 4 quarters. elderberries.substack.com

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August 13, 202630 min

Jane Moffett - Women Wrote the Map First: Navigating longer lives

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by Jane Moffett, author of What Next? and the Founder of KANGAROO Coaching, for a conversation about the life stage still awkwardly labelled retirement. Moffett argues the adjustment after leaving work can take up to seven years, because stopping work is a major psychological transition involving shifts in identity, values and meaning — none of which can be hurried. She maps six recurring challenges, from the manner of leaving to the reshaping of time, structure and relationships, and pushes back on the pressure to name a purpose, offering meaning as the more useful word. The conversation turns to gendered career shapes — the male mountain versus women’s rolling landscape — the layer of Q3 women hitting their strongest decades, and why so few couples do this thinking together. Both agree: start early, and don’t go it alone.Jane Moffett has spent thirty years supporting women through major life transitions, particularly the points where the professional and the personal intersect — becoming a mother, leaving the workplace, returning after a career break. Her interest in the transition out of work grew from conversations with friends of her own generation: the first large cohort of professional women to have built full careers, and to face stopping work with no blueprint to follow. Finding nothing written for women in the UK on the subject, she researched and wrote What Next?, a six-part map of the challenges of redefining retirement.Useful Links:Book - From Retired to Defined Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

August 6, 202637 min

Dr. Denise Taylor - The Longevity Dividend: Age, work and opportunity

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by psychologist and author Dr Denise Taylor, who after more than 50 years of work stepped away from client practice to write. Taylor argues that most people misread Carl Jung: the second half of life is not about striving differently, but about going inwards. She unpicks the assumption that work means paid work, and questions the language now forming around 60-year careers. The conversation turns to identity — who am I without my job? — and to the health and financial foundations of later-life agency, including the idea of voluntary simplicity. Taylor describes writing her new book, ThriveSpan, in the four acres of woodland she bought during lockdown, structuring it as paths through a wood rather than chapters. Her closing permission is simple: you have more time than you think.Dr Denise Taylor is a psychologist, career coach and author who has worked in retirement and later-life for more than 40 years, beginning as a welfare officer at Royal Mail running pre-retirement seminars in her twenties. After a corporate career and a long practice in careers coaching, she completed a doctorate and turned to writing full time. Her books include Rethinking Retirement, Career Coaching for Midlife and Beyond, and ThriveSpan, Walking Gently into What Matters Now, with Olderhood Unfolding — 52 essays on ageing — to follow. She writes for the iPaper, publishes academic research, and works from her own four acres of woodland. Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

July 30, 202643 min

Rob Nathan - The Second Career Revolution: Holistic careers for longer lives

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by Rob Nathan, occupational psychologist and career coach, to ask why the three-stage life — education, work, retirement — is proving so stubborn. Recorded on his 77th birthday, Nathan argues the systems around us were built for shorter lives and have not caught up, while individuals get financially and socially bound into their employers. He draws on William Bridges to separate change from transition, and unpacks the self-limiting beliefs that keep people stuck at the edge of the diving board. The conversation turns to cultural contrasts — the respect afforded elders across Southeast Asia against a Western workplace that reads older workers as slower and replaceable — and to the case for career conversations and multi-generational teams. Nathan closes with whitewater rafting and his own definition of a good fourth quarter.Rob Nathan is an occupational psychologist and career coach of more than four decades. He set up his own practice in 1978 and now directs Career Counselling Services, whose training and coaching work he is expanding into Southeast Asia. He commissioned, edited and co-authored The Holistic Career Conversations Handbook, including a Chapter on Career Conversations to The Holistic Career Coaching Handbook, and an earlier co-authored career title was serialised on television. He designed the Thrive at 55 programme for people rethinking work in later career. Alongside his practice he holds a master’s in creative writing, writes short stories, and runs shared reading groups for elders with Age UK.Links:* www.career-counselling-services.co.uk* https://www.routledge.com/The-Holistic-Career-Coaching-Handbook-A-Guide-for-Managers-and-Employers/Nathan/p/book/9781032802350?utm_source=cjaffiliates&utm_medium=affiliates&cjevent=7d2ae9f1873a11f1806700590a18b8f7* https://career-counselling-services.co.uk/accredited-career-coach-training/* https://career-counselling-services.co.uk/advanced-icf-career-coaching-certificate/* https://www.linkedin.com/in/robnathanccs/ Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

July 23, 202639 min

UBER - Designing for Everyone: Accessibility as Innovation

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by UBER’s Briana Gilmore to explore how ageing, disability and mobility intersect — and what that means for the future of work, cities and independence. Briana reframes ageing not as a demographic segment but as an access issue, shifting the conversation from “senior markets” to systems that either enable or restrict independence. She introduces self-efficacy — the confidence to navigate the world predictably — and shows how it erodes when environments fail to adapt, not because of personal limitations. Applying the social model of disability to ageing, she argues that disability lies in environments, not impairments, opening fresh ways to design products, services and cities. Along the way she unpacks the tension between safety and autonomy, the dignity of risk, and how this thinking reshaped Uber’s approach to older users — and what age-friendly cities truly require: meaningful choice.Briana Gilmore is Head of Global Accessibility Policy at Uber, focused on disability access, ageing and inclusive mobility. With a background spanning global migration policy, public health and urban planning, her work examines how systems shape access to resources, movement and independence. A long-time disability advocate, she integrates the social model of disability into product and policy design, challenging traditional assumptions about ageing and adaptability. At Uber, she leads efforts to expand access for older adults and marginalized communities, Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

July 16, 202637 min

Alastair Greener - Lost in Translation: Communicating across generations

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by Alastair Greener, speaker, consultant and author of Generationally Speaking, to unpick what we get wrong about generations at work. Alastair argues that much of what we label generational conflict is really about life stage, and that organisations stereotype at their peril: his research across six generations found we are, on average, only about 65% “stereotypical”, meaning a third of people won’t match the labels applied to them. The conversation explores a striking gap: just 6% of HR leaders report overt generational friction, yet almost two-thirds believe better intergenerational communication would boost productivity. Avivah and Alastair dig into the overlooked Q3 workforce, the value of multi-generational teams, and three strategies leaders can adopt now: omni-channel communication, “tangling” the generations within teams, and recruitment that genuinely matches onboarding.Alastair Greener is a speaker, trainer and consultant specialising in intergenerational communication, helping organisations turn generational difference into a source of engagement and productivity rather than friction. His book Generationally Speaking, published in November 2025, draws on his research with 4,000 people across six generations and all socioeconomic groups, examining how each generation prefers to communicate and how far the stereotypes really hold. After a career in the corporate world, Alastair now works with major organisations on communication, culture and multi-generational teams, with a follow-up study and a second book already in the pipeline. Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

July 9, 202644 min

Charlie Rogers - The Courage to Become Undefinable: Life beyond labels

What if the most valuable thing you can become is... undefinable?In the first episode of the Longer Lives Need Better Maps summer series, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox talks with Charlie Rogers, founder of the Undefinable Community and author of Undefinable Life Design. Together they explore why younger generations are rejecting traditional career paths—and why their search for identity mirrors the questions many people face later in life as they transition into a new Q3.Charlie introduces his idea of the “golden thread”: finding the unique connections between your interests instead of defining yourself by a single job or profession. The conversation ranges from portfolio careers and AI to flexible organisations and the future of work, revealing a surprising insight: whether you’re 28 or 58, longer lives demand greater freedom to evolve. Perhaps the future belongs not to specialists—but to those willing to become undefinable.* Undefinable Life Design (book): https://mybook.to/undefinablelifedesign/* Subscribe to Charlie’s Newsletter: * Work with Charlie: https://www.undefinablelifedesign.com/ Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

June 18, 20268 min

Mapping The New Q3: What Twelve Weeks Taught Me About Life's New Quarter

After twelve weeks exploring what it means to live longer, this summary steps back from individual conversations to examine the bigger picture. Rather than recapping each episode, Avivah looks at the entire series from above and asks a more fundamental question: if the emergence of a new third quarter of life is such a profound shift, why do we still understand it so poorly? The answer, she argues, is that we’re trying to squeeze an entirely new life stage into outdated frameworks.The series naturally organised itself into three movements: Recognising, Understanding and Navigating.RecognisingThe first challenge is one of scale. Organisations, institutions and individuals have not yet grasped the sheer size of this demographic transformation. We have added decades of healthy life expectancy but continue to use industrial-age assumptions about education, work and retirement. We have built systems around a three-stage life model of learning, earning and retiring, even though millions of people are now entering a distinct and substantial third quarter between roughly 50 and 75. This isn’t an extension of midlife or a delayed version of old age. It is a new life stage entirely.UnderstandingThe second phase explored the inner experience of Q3 itself. While external markers may remain unclear, people inside this transition often describe remarkably similar feelings. There is a growing desire to shift from ambition towards meaning, from accumulation towards contribution, and from identity built around achievement towards identity built around becoming. Many experience an unsettling sense of freedom alongside uncertainty. The old scripts no longer apply, yet new ones have not been widely written. This leaves many successful people feeling temporarily lost, not because they are failing, but because they are entering unfamiliar territory without a map.NavigatingThe final episodes focused on navigation. How do individuals, couples and organisations adapt to a life course that may now span a century? Avivah argues that the biggest opportunity lies not in adding more years to life, but in redesigning the institutions that shape those years. Companies must rethink careers, leaders must rethink talent, and individuals must embrace transitions as a normal and necessary feature of modern life. The central insight emerging from the series is that Q3 is not a problem to solve but a resource to cultivate. We are witnessing the birth of a new life stage, one that may ultimately become one of the most creative, productive and socially valuable periods of our lives.Why Care? We are no longer simply living longer. We are creating an entirely new chapter of adulthood. The question is no longer whether Q3 exists, but whether our systems, organisations and imaginations can catch up with it.Memorable lines“The question isn’t whether Q3 is real. The evidence has only got louder. The question is why something this large is still so badly understood.”“We have added decades to life, but we haven’t yet redesigned life itself.”“Q3 is not a problem to solve. It’s a resource to cultivate.”“Many people don’t feel lost because they’re failing. They feel lost because they’re entering a new life stage without a map.”“The complexities only really show up when you hold recognising, understanding and navigating together.” Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

June 11, 202642 min

New Maps: Sebastian Kernbach on Designing Purposefully for the Full Arc of a Working Life

This week on 4 Quarter Lives, we revisit Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation with Sebastian Kernbach, founder of the University of St. Gallen’s Next – Design Your Future initiative — the first university-based midlife programme in continental Europe.They discuss how St. Gallen’s approach blends design thinking, positive psychology and behavioural economics to help accomplished professionals rethink their purpose, portfolio, and personal transitions, in what Kernbach calls the multi-stage life. He describes how the three-day “sabbatical” has evolved into a five-day immersive experience, designed to give participants a structured yet creative space to pause, prototype, and rediscover what drives them.Together, Avivah and Sebastian compare models emerging from Harvard, Stanford and Chicago with Europe’s more academically grounded, culturally diverse programmes. They explore Kernbach’s key ideas — from infinite procrastination and the magic circle to the stairway to heaven — practical methods for turning reflection into action. The conversation widens to include the role of universities and employers in supporting lifelong learning, intergenerational connection and longer, healthier, more flexible careers.Kernbach shares his vision of “transition competence” — the lifelong skill of navigating change with agency, creativity and patience — and why Europe’s blend of rigour, reflection and community may offer a new model for longevity education worldwide.Sebastian Kernbach is Professor at the University of St. Gallen, where he teaches creativity, life design and visual thinking. Her is Visiting Scholar at Columbia University and Stanford University, and Guest Professor at the African Doctoral Academy and the Central University of Beijing.Previously he worked for Xerox and Interbrand. He advises and consults organizations like Nike, The United Nations, IBM and others. He founded the Visual Collaboration Lab and the Life Design Lab at the University of St. Gallen and co-authored the award-winning book “Meet up!” as well as the best-selling books “Life Design” and “Life Design Action Book”. His most recent book is Design Your Future (April 2026).Useful links:* University of St. Gallen – Next Programme web page* Order Sebastian’s new book: Design Your Future Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

June 4, 202643 min

Dr Mileham Hayes - Not Decline, Redesign: Mileham Hayes on Building Resilience With Science and Data

This week, on 4-Quarter Lives, we revisit the conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Dr Mileham Hayes, author of ‘Live Longer: Revealing Today’s Secrets of Longevity and Wellbeing’ and a specialist in preventative medicine. As he says, “preventive medicine has never realized its promise or potential...until now”. Mileham, who launched the world’s first longevity clinic and has spent nearly six decades in coronary care, shares how much of heart disease—still the world’s top killer - is preventable, yet persistently neglected. He discusses key diagnostic tests such as ApoB, Lp(a), and coronary artery calcium scans, many of which he began using in the 1990s but still remain underused. He advocates a targeted 20-test health screening battery for anyone over 40, customized by age and gender, which is downloadable with the episode.He critiques the broader health ecosystem where profit-driven industries—from pharma to fast food—drown out preventive efforts, leaving doctors and patients with minimal influence. He shares sobering statistics on the top causes of death by decade and gender across the US, UK, and Australia—highlighting suicide as a leading killer of younger men. Rather than obsessing over radical life-extension strategies, Hayes urges a back-to-basics focus on preventing known, measurable threats. Witty, forthright, and deeply experienced, Hayes is a passionate advocate for practical, accessible healthcare that prioritizes staying alive—and healthy—as the first rule of longevity.Dr Mileham Hayes is a Specialist Physician and a Fellow of both the Royal College of Physicians of London and Edinburgh. He was appointed to the world’s first Coronary Care Unit and researched prevention of heart attacks – still the greatest cause of premature death. He has now spent some 50 years in clinical practice and is the author of two medical textbooks and a series of books on living longer through prevention, nutrition and exercise. His most recent book is ‘Live Longer: Revealing Today’s Secrets of Longevity and Wellbeing’. Mileham studied medicine at the University of Queensland. He has five children, played most sports at a high level, farmed, gardens, writes doggerel and cooks. He also had an ABC radio weekly program and two national TV shows presenting and playing jazz. He has the Order of Australia Medal for his services to Jazz.Useful Links:* Download a pdf from Mileham on main causes of death by sex and age, and recommended tests* Buy Mileham’s book ‘Live Longer’* On Amazon.com* On Amazon.co.uk Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

May 28, 202642 min

Jennifer Petriglieri - The Couple at the Centre: Jennifer Petriglieri on the Unit of Analysis We've Been Missing

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by Jennifer Petriglieri, Professor of Organisational Behaviour at INSEAD Business School and author of Couples That Work, to explore how longer lives are reshaping modern coupledom, careers, and power dynamics inside relationships.Jennifer argues that living and working longer removes the pressure to “have it all at once” and replaces it with a need to sequence ambitions across a lifetime. For couples, this means the old idea of a fixed deal or settled marriage no longer holds. What works in your 30s rarely works in your 50s or 60s. Instead, she introduces the idea of a more fluid marriage, one that adapts as careers, caregiving roles, and personal identities evolve.The conversation digs into why midlife has become such a critical inflection point. Empty nesting, career ceilings, and shifting energy levels often collide at the same moment. Jennifer explains why women in particular are driving the rise in midlife divorce, not because relationships are broken, but because being “supported” is not the same as being seen and celebrated.They explore the hidden role of power in couples, how it is shaped by thousands of small decisions over time rather than money alone, and why resentment builds when desire and agency go unspoken. Jennifer also maps her three major transitions in dual-career couples onto four-quarter lives, showing how reinvention now repeats several times as careers stretch into later decades.Looking ahead, Jennifer shares practical tools for navigating mobility, retirement, and reinvention together, from simple decision exercises to small daily practices that build connection. She closes by reimagining the future of coupledom, calling for relational literacy to be taught early, normalized often, and practiced intentionally throughout longer lives.Jennifer Petriglieri is Professor of Organizational Behavior at INSEAD and a leading expert on dual-career couples, leadership, and identity at work. Her research focuses on how professionals navigate ambition, relationships, and power over long careers. She is the author of Couples That Work, a widely cited book on modern coupledom and career sustainability. Jennifer teaches globally, advises organizations on leadership and talent, and is a frequent speaker on how longer lives are changing the way we work and love.Useful Links:* Jennifer’s Website: https://www.jpetriglieri.com* Book: Couples That Work: https://www.jpetriglieri.com/books/* Jennifer Petriglieri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpetriglieri/* INSEAD: https://www.insead.edu Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

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