4-Quarter Lives

Hosted by Avivah Wittenberg-Cox

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125

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Jun 2026

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You are likely to live longer than you think. Are you ready? Science has gifted us ever longer, 100-year lives. This impacts… everything! From couples and careers - to companies and countries. We’ll interview the experts who are exploring the consequences – and the individuals applying it to their own lives and choices. Generational and gender expert Avivah Wittenberg-Cox talks with people designing new ways of living, working and loving at all ages – across life’s 4 quarters. elderberries.substack.com

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June 11, 202642 min

New Maps: Sebastian Kernbach on Designing Purposefully for the Full Arc of a Working Life

This week on 4 Quarter Lives, we revisit Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation with Sebastian Kernbach, founder of the University of St. Gallen’s Next – Design Your Future initiative — the first university-based midlife programme in continental Europe.They discuss how St. Gallen’s approach blends design thinking, positive psychology and behavioural economics to help accomplished professionals rethink their purpose, portfolio, and personal transitions, in what Kernbach calls the multi-stage life. He describes how the three-day “sabbatical” has evolved into a five-day immersive experience, designed to give participants a structured yet creative space to pause, prototype, and rediscover what drives them.Together, Avivah and Sebastian compare models emerging from Harvard, Stanford and Chicago with Europe’s more academically grounded, culturally diverse programmes. They explore Kernbach’s key ideas — from infinite procrastination and the magic circle to the stairway to heaven — practical methods for turning reflection into action. The conversation widens to include the role of universities and employers in supporting lifelong learning, intergenerational connection and longer, healthier, more flexible careers.Kernbach shares his vision of “transition competence” — the lifelong skill of navigating change with agency, creativity and patience — and why Europe’s blend of rigour, reflection and community may offer a new model for longevity education worldwide.Sebastian Kernbach is Professor at the University of St. Gallen, where he teaches creativity, life design and visual thinking. Her is Visiting Scholar at Columbia University and Stanford University, and Guest Professor at the African Doctoral Academy and the Central University of Beijing.Previously he worked for Xerox and Interbrand. He advises and consults organizations like Nike, The United Nations, IBM and others. He founded the Visual Collaboration Lab and the Life Design Lab at the University of St. Gallen and co-authored the award-winning book “Meet up!” as well as the best-selling books “Life Design” and “Life Design Action Book”. His most recent book is Design Your Future (April 2026).Useful links:* University of St. Gallen – Next Programme web page* Order Sebastian’s new book: Design Your Future Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

June 4, 202643 min

Dr Mileham Hayes - Not Decline, Redesign: Mileham Hayes on Building Resilience With Science and Data

This week, on 4-Quarter Lives, we revisit the conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Dr Mileham Hayes, author of ‘Live Longer: Revealing Today’s Secrets of Longevity and Wellbeing’ and a specialist in preventative medicine. As he says, “preventive medicine has never realized its promise or potential...until now”. Mileham, who launched the world’s first longevity clinic and has spent nearly six decades in coronary care, shares how much of heart disease—still the world’s top killer - is preventable, yet persistently neglected. He discusses key diagnostic tests such as ApoB, Lp(a), and coronary artery calcium scans, many of which he began using in the 1990s but still remain underused. He advocates a targeted 20-test health screening battery for anyone over 40, customized by age and gender, which is downloadable with the episode.He critiques the broader health ecosystem where profit-driven industries—from pharma to fast food—drown out preventive efforts, leaving doctors and patients with minimal influence. He shares sobering statistics on the top causes of death by decade and gender across the US, UK, and Australia—highlighting suicide as a leading killer of younger men. Rather than obsessing over radical life-extension strategies, Hayes urges a back-to-basics focus on preventing known, measurable threats. Witty, forthright, and deeply experienced, Hayes is a passionate advocate for practical, accessible healthcare that prioritizes staying alive—and healthy—as the first rule of longevity.Dr Mileham Hayes is a Specialist Physician and a Fellow of both the Royal College of Physicians of London and Edinburgh. He was appointed to the world’s first Coronary Care Unit and researched prevention of heart attacks – still the greatest cause of premature death. He has now spent some 50 years in clinical practice and is the author of two medical textbooks and a series of books on living longer through prevention, nutrition and exercise. His most recent book is ‘Live Longer: Revealing Today’s Secrets of Longevity and Wellbeing’. Mileham studied medicine at the University of Queensland. He has five children, played most sports at a high level, farmed, gardens, writes doggerel and cooks. He also had an ABC radio weekly program and two national TV shows presenting and playing jazz. He has the Order of Australia Medal for his services to Jazz.Useful Links:* Download a pdf from Mileham on main causes of death by sex and age, and recommended tests* Buy Mileham’s book ‘Live Longer’* On Amazon.com* On Amazon.co.uk Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

May 28, 202642 min

Jennifer Petriglieri - The Couple at the Centre: Jennifer Petriglieri on the Unit of Analysis We've Been Missing

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by Jennifer Petriglieri, Professor of Organisational Behaviour at INSEAD Business School and author of Couples That Work, to explore how longer lives are reshaping modern coupledom, careers, and power dynamics inside relationships.Jennifer argues that living and working longer removes the pressure to “have it all at once” and replaces it with a need to sequence ambitions across a lifetime. For couples, this means the old idea of a fixed deal or settled marriage no longer holds. What works in your 30s rarely works in your 50s or 60s. Instead, she introduces the idea of a more fluid marriage, one that adapts as careers, caregiving roles, and personal identities evolve.The conversation digs into why midlife has become such a critical inflection point. Empty nesting, career ceilings, and shifting energy levels often collide at the same moment. Jennifer explains why women in particular are driving the rise in midlife divorce, not because relationships are broken, but because being “supported” is not the same as being seen and celebrated.They explore the hidden role of power in couples, how it is shaped by thousands of small decisions over time rather than money alone, and why resentment builds when desire and agency go unspoken. Jennifer also maps her three major transitions in dual-career couples onto four-quarter lives, showing how reinvention now repeats several times as careers stretch into later decades.Looking ahead, Jennifer shares practical tools for navigating mobility, retirement, and reinvention together, from simple decision exercises to small daily practices that build connection. She closes by reimagining the future of coupledom, calling for relational literacy to be taught early, normalized often, and practiced intentionally throughout longer lives.Jennifer Petriglieri is Professor of Organizational Behavior at INSEAD and a leading expert on dual-career couples, leadership, and identity at work. Her research focuses on how professionals navigate ambition, relationships, and power over long careers. She is the author of Couples That Work, a widely cited book on modern coupledom and career sustainability. Jennifer teaches globally, advises organizations on leadership and talent, and is a frequent speaker on how longer lives are changing the way we work and love.Useful Links:* Jennifer’s Website: https://www.jpetriglieri.com* Book: Couples That Work: https://www.jpetriglieri.com/books/* Jennifer Petriglieri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpetriglieri/* INSEAD: https://www.insead.edu Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

May 21, 202640 min

Michael Fossat: After the Ladder: Schneider Electric Builds Career Architecture for the 21st Century

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives, we republish Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation with Michael Fossat, head of Schneider Electric’s Future Ready program and Director of HR at Schneider Electric France. With a 180-year history, Schneider is now focused on assisting and driving the energy transition to an electric and digital future. Yet this 150,000 strong company discovered that employees over the age of 50 (what Avivah calls Q3) weren’t as motivated and engaged as the rest. Schneider determined to fix that, especially given the talent wars they feel pressing on their business needs every day. The Future Ready Program is their response.Michael Fossat has worked at Schneider for much of his professional career. Passionate about sustainable business and people’s central role in achieving it, he joined Schneider Electric in France as an HR apprentice in an industrial department, participated in the creation of HR shared services for the entire group and worked in the R&D division, before moving to Barcelona to create the HR Metrics function globally. Returning to Paris he was successively HR VP for one of the business units, HR head of Central and Eastern Europe and HR leader for European plants and distribution centres. He is currently Head of HR for Schneider Electric France. Since 2021 he has also headed up the Future Ready Program, bringing to the role a wide knowledge of what motivates people across the group.RELEVANT LINKS* Schneider Electric website* Schneider Electric – Company Purpose* Schneider Electric Senior Talent Program white paper* https://www.kornferry.com/content/dam/kornferry/docs/pdfs/KF-Future-of-Work-Talent-Crunch-Report.pdf* https://www.aarpinternational.org/* Articles by Avivah on other Corporate Initiatives: Unilever and Aviva Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

May 21, 202640 min

Michael Fossat: After the Ladder: Schneider Electric Builds Career Architecture for the 21st Century

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives, we republish Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation with Michael Fossat, head of Schneider Electric’s Future Ready program and Director of HR at Schneider Electric France. With a 180-year history, Schneider is now focused on assisting and driving the energy transition to an electric and digital future. Yet this 150,000 strong company discovered that employees over the age of 50 (what Avivah calls Q3) weren’t as motivated and engaged as the rest. Schneider determined to fix that, especially given the talent wars they feel pressing on their business needs every day. The Future Ready Program is their response.Michael Fossat has worked at Schneider for much of his professional career. Passionate about sustainable business and people’s central role in achieving it, he joined Schneider Electric in France as an HR apprentice in an industrial department, participated in the creation of HR shared services for the entire group and worked in the R&D division, before moving to Barcelona to create the HR Metrics function globally. Returning to Paris he was successively HR VP for one of the business units, HR head of Central and Eastern Europe and HR leader for European plants and distribution centres. He is currently Head of HR for Schneider Electric France. Since 2021 he has also headed up the Future Ready Program, bringing to the role a wide knowledge of what motivates people across the group.RELEVANT LINKS* Schneider Electric website* Schneider Electric – Company Purpose* Schneider Electric Senior Talent Program white paper* https://www.kornferry.com/content/dam/kornferry/docs/pdfs/KF-Future-of-Work-Talent-Crunch-Report.pdf* https://www.aarpinternational.org/* Articles by Avivah on other Corporate Initiatives: Unilever and Aviv Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

May 14, 202648 min

Helen Tupper: The Squiggly Career: Amazing If on Reinvention, Retention and the Leap

In this episode of 4-Quarter Lives, we re-visit a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Helen Tupper, Chief Executive of Amazing If, a company redefining careers for individuals and companies. Together they explore the intricacies of career transitions during midlife and how organizations can support these changes. The conversation also delves into personal experience, highlighting the essential balance between work and life.Helen Tupper is co-founder and CEO of Amazing If, a company with an ambition to make careers better for everyone. Together with her business partner Sarah Ellis, she is the author of three books: The Squiggly Career, You Coach You and, most recently, Learn Like a Lobster: Confidence boosting tools to help you get unstuck at work and reignite your career. Sarah and Helen are also hosts of the podcast Squiggly Careers which has had 4m downloads and their TED talk, The best career isn’t always a straight line, has been watched by almost 2m people. In 2023 Helen was awarded a place on EYs International Winning Women programme. Prior to founding Amazing If, Helen held leadership roles for Microsoft, Virgin and BP and was awarded the FT & 30% Club’s Women in Leadership MBA Scholarship.Some Useful Links:* Amazing If website.* Book: The Squiggly Career, by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis* Book: Learn Like a Lobster, by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis* The Squiggly Careers podcast.* Helen Tupper’s LinkedIn Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

May 7, 202643 min

Alistair McQueen: The Midlife MOT: How Aviva Made Purpose a Business Lever

This week we revisit a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Alistair McQueen, Head of Savings and Retirement at Aviva, the UK’s largest general insurance company and a major life and pensions provider. Aviva also has a significant presence in Canada and Ireland. Alistair leads Aviva’s pensions business, helping six million people save for and live in retirement, as well as representing Aviva in the media and with government. He is also a member of the Association of British Insurers’ retirement working group; the Money and Pensions Service long-term savings challenge group; the Department for Work & Pensions Mid-life-MOT board; the Business in the Community Age Leadership Team; and sits on the advisory board of Bravestarts – a social enterprise with the goal of supporting a fuller working life.Some Useful Links:* Aviva – How Long will Retirement Be?* Aviva Mid-Life MOT app.* UK Government Mid-Life MOT* Brave Starts – new opportunities for over 45s. Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

April 30, 202640 min

Chip Conley: The Modern Elder: The Wisdom of Not Knowing Yet

This week, we republish a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Chip Conley, the Founder and CEO of the Modern Elder Academy. Chip Conley is on a midlife mission. After disrupting the hospitality industry twice, first as the founder of Joie de Vivre Hospitality, the second-largest operator of boutique hotels in the U.S., and then as Airbnb’s Head of Global Hospitality and Strategy, leading a worldwide revolution in travel, Conley co-founded MEA (Modern Elder Academy) in January 2018 in Baja California, Mexico. Inspired by his experience of intergenerational mentoring as a ‘modern elder’ at Airbnb, where his guidance was instrumental to the company’s extraordinary transformation from fast-growing start-up to the world’s most valuable hospitality brand, MEA is the world’s first ‘midlife wisdom school’. Dedicated to reframing the concept of ageing, MEA supports students to navigate midlife with a renewed sense of purpose and possibility. A New York Times bestselling author, Conley’s 7th book “Learning to Love Midlife: 12 Reasons Why Life Gets Better with Age” is about rebranding midlife to help people understand the upside of this often-misunderstood life stage. In 2023 he gave a TED talk on the “midlife chrysalis.”Some Useful Links:* Website: Chip Conley* Book: Learning to Love Midlife – or at Amazon* Website: Modern Elder Academy* Chip Copley’s Daily Blog: Wisdom Well* Blue Zones Retreat at MEA Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

April 23, 202643 min

Prof. Herminia Ibarra: Working Identity: How People Actually Change

In this episode of the Four Quarter Lives podcast, we revisit a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg Cox and Professor Herminia Ibarra of the London Business School. As we navigate the realities of career shifts, Herminia shares invaluable insights on why these transitions often take years, not months, and the importance of managing expectations during this journey. We confront the myth of discovering a “true self” and explore how identity is actually mutable, shaped through experimentation. Herminia guides us through the often “dark, messy middle” of career change — a period of confusion and uncertainty that paradoxically serves as a fertile ground for growth. We also discuss the significance of connecting with others in similar phases and practical steps to initiate change, such as reactivating dormant networks and embarking on side projects.Herminia Ibarra is Charles Handy Professor of Organizational Behavior at London Business School. Prior to joining LBS, she served as Professor on the INSEAD and Harvard Business School faculties. An authority on leadership and career transition, Thinkers50 ranks Herminia among the top management thinkers in the world. She is a member of the World Economic Forum’s Expert Network, a judge for the Financial Times Business Book of the Year Award, a Fellow of the British Academy, the recipient of the Academy of Management’s Scholar-Practitioner Award for her research’s contribution to management practice, and Governor of the London Business School.Herminia is the author of best-selling books, Act Like a Leader, Think Like a Leader and Working Identity: Unconventional Strategies for Reinventing Your Career. She writes regularly in leading academic journals and business publications including the Harvard Business Review, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York Times, is the author of numerous best-selling business case studies, and speaks internationally on leadership and organizational transformation. A native of Cuba, Herminia received her M.A. and Ph.D. from Yale University, where she was a National Science Fellow.Some Useful Links:* Herminia Ibarra’s book on career transitions: Working Identity: Unconventional Strategies for Reinventing Your Career* Herminia’s website* Harvard Business Review Article: Why Career Transition is So Hard* Harvard Business Review Article: Reinventing Your Career – When It’s Not Just About You* Harvard business Review Article: 5 Barriers to Career change – And How to Overcome Them* London Business School website Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

April 16, 202640 min

James Root: The Business Case is Already Made: Bain & Co on the Longevity Dividend

This week on 4-Quarter Lives we re-publish a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and James Root, Senior Partner at international consultancy Bain & Co and Chair of Bain Futures, which looks at future trends. Its report, Better With Age, The Rising Importance of Older Workers, is based on asking some 40,000 people, in 19 countries, a simple but fundamental question: ‘why do you go to work?’. The report identifies 6 archetypes that encompass the diversity of motivations that people bring to their work. James and Avivah discuss the relevance of work motivations for people in their 3rd quarter, and the significance of this for companies across the world as their workforces age.Based in Hong Kong, James Root has 35 years consulting experience in Asia, North America and Europe. He is author of The Archetype Effect, offering a new way to understand what motivates people at work every day and why they feel how they feel about their job. James is the Former Leader of Bain & Co.’s Asia Pacific Organisation Practice; Former Managing Partner of Bain New York; and Former Chair of Bain’s Nominating Committee. He has written extensively in the business press, from Harvard Business Review to The Wall Street Journal, on topics of talent, China, international expansion and the firm of the future. He is a regular guest on TV and Radio, including CNN, CNBC and Bloomberg and Adjunct Professor on the faculty of HKUST since 2011, as well as a Fellow of Hughes Hall College, Cambridge University since 2021.Some Useful Links:* The Working Future report - https://www.bain.com/insights/the-working-future-more-human-not-less-future-of-work-report/* Quiz - https://www.bain.com/insights/six-worker-archetypes-for-the-world-ahead-future-of-work-report-interactive/* Better with Age: The Rising Importance of Older Workers - https://www.bain.com/insights/better-with-age-the-rising-importance-of-older-workers/* The Working Women report - https://www.bain.com/insights/working-women-and-the-war-for-talent/ Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe

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