Inside The Outer Loop

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Feb 2025

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February 18, 2025Episode 3440 min

Episode 34: A new approach to test data management

Welcome to episode 34 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, the Curiosity team explore a new approach to test data management, one that aligns with the test data needs of large organisations. The conversation begins with Huw and James discussing the challenges organisations face in test data management as they approach 2025. The introduction of AI is seen as a potential solution, but James stresses the importance of a structured approach to test data management through their new framework: Discover, Act, Monitor. Discover Gain full visibility into your application landscape. Understand what data exists, how it’s structured, where it’s located and who uses it for more informed decision-making. Act Intelligently execute on actionable insights gained from the discovery and monitoring phases of your test data journey. Monitor Proactively govern your test data and leverage AI-driven insights, to help you anticipate issues, optimise processes, and ensure compliance across your whole enterprise. This approach describes how organisations can effectively discover their data, act on insights, and continuously monitor changes to maintain data integrity and quality. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about test data delivery, quality, and productivity!

December 30, 2024Episode 3357 min

Episode 33: Why quality is an end-to-end process with Anand Bagmar

Welcome to episode 33 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Anand Bagmar, a software quality evangelist with 25 years of experience in software testing. Together, they discuss Anand's journey into the testing field, his philosophy of being a 'quality bartender,' and insights from his recent speaking tour. The conversation delves into the challenges of test automation, the importance of shifting left in testing, and the role of AI in the testing landscape. Anand emphasizes the need for testability, the complexities of end-to-end automation, and the importance of having a strong voice in organizations to drive quality improvements. The episode concludes with Anand's advice on adopting practices that work for individual contexts rather than blindly following trends. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

December 19, 2024Episode 3255 min

Episode 32: From manual to automation with Jim Hazen

Welcome to episode 32 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Jim Hazen, seasoned test automation architect and quality consultant. Together, they discuss the evolution of testing, the challenges faced in the industry, and the importance of education and critical thinking in testing. Jim shares insights on the misconceptions surrounding automation, the shift towards technical skills, and the impact of AI on testing practices. James and Jim emphasize the need for a mindset change in management regarding the role of testers and the tools they use, advocating for a collaborative approach to testing that values both technical and business perspectives. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

November 4, 2024Episode 3148 min

Episode 31: Building tools to solve tester's problems with Sanjay Kumar

Welcome to episode 31 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Sanjay Kumar, Founder & Creator of SelectorsHub. Together, they discuss Sanjay's journey in developing tools for the testing community and his mission to solve quality problems. Sanjay and Rich start the conversation by exploring the challenges in the testing industry, such as the disconnect between managers and practitioners, the resistance to adopting new technologies, and the need for a shift in focus from process to solutions. Sanjay highlights the importance of community feedback, continuous improvement, and the balance between risk and quality in software development. Sanjay Kumar shifts the conversation towards the challenges and expectations of test automation. James and Rich highlight the importance of having a realistic approach to automation and not expecting it to solve all problems. The team also touched on the misconception that AI can do everything, and the need to use AI in the right context. AI should be used in the right context and not as a replacement for all algorithms and tools. Sanjay emphasized the importance of identifying and solving real problems faced by testers and developers, even without AI. He shared his approach of quickly developing and launching solutions based on user feedback. Sanjay ended the episode by encouraging the testing community to create solutions for the problems they encounter! Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

October 22, 2024Episode 3049 min

Episode 30: AI's Role in The Future of Software Delivery with Sergio Freire

Welcome to episode 30 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Sergio Freire, Director of Solution Architecture, Test Management at Xray and TestRail. Together, they discuss the future of testing, software delivery and the impact of artificial intelligence. The conversation delves into Sergio's journey into the testing field, the evolution of testing practices, and the cultural challenges organisations face in adopting effective testing strategies. Sergio also shares his insights on balancing automation with exploratory testing and the growing role of AI in enhancing testing processes. James and Sergio emphasise the need for a collaborative culture in software development and the significance of quality engineering as a team effort. The episode highlights that while automation is essential, exploratory testing, intuition, and human experience remain invaluable in assessing risks and driving continuous improvement in testing practices. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

October 7, 2024Episode 2945 min

Episode 29: The Role of Technology in Banking with Felipe Fabricio

Welcome to episode 29 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Ben Riley are joined by special guest Felipe Fabricio, Software Engineer & Global Young Leader at Santander. Together, they discuss the challenges of implementing change in large financial service organisations and the need for careful planning and communication. The episode starts with Felipe sharing his journey from wanting to study agronomy to becoming a software engineer, his experiences working in the UAT environment, and the challenges of implementing change in a large financial services organisation. Rich and Felipe also explore the differences between the Brazilian and UK financial services markets, the need for speed and control in software development, and the shift from a project-led to a product-led approach. Felipe discusses the importance of technology in the banking industry and Santander's focus on global initiatives to simplify and improve their products. The team also talks about the centralisation of quality processes and the use of data to measure and improve software quality. Felipe shares examples of simplification efforts, such as reducing the number of connections to the mainframe and automating data generation. He emphasizes the need for effective communication and the ability to convince others in order to drive change. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

September 23, 2024Episode 2842 min

Episode 28: Artificial Intelligence & Testing with Daniel Nilsson

Welcome to episode 28 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Daniel Nilsson, Co-Founder & Managing Director of Test Scouts. Together, they discuss AI and testing, focusing on how testers can improve the quality of AI systems and the tools that can enable them to do so. Rich and Daniel start the conversation by discussing the challenges of testing autonomous vehicles and the need for trust in AI. The team discuss the importance of quality in safety-critical systems and the need for evidence and structure in the development and testing process. Daniel highlights the potential for cross-pollination between the embedded systems and application worlds. The conversation also covers the topic of continuous learning and the culture of curiosity within organizations. James and Daniel share their experiences with mentorship, internal conferences, and weekly learning challenges to foster a culture of continuous learning. They emphasize the importance of leaders living the values they want to cultivate and encouraging small steps towards improvement. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

September 9, 2024Episode 2748 min

Episode 27: The Evolution of Quality Engineering with Phil Royston

Welcome to episode 27 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Phil Royston, CEO & Founder of Tesena. Together, they discuss the evolution of quality engineering as a role and why continuous improvement is essential in the software testing industry. Phil Royston starts the conversation by sharing his journey into the testing and quality industry. He emphasizes the importance of mindset change and the shift from a tester-centric approach to a cross-functional, collaborative approach for quality engineering. The conversation explores the challenges of breaking down silos and the need for continuous improvement in the software testing industry. James and Rich explore the importance of soft skills in DevOps and testing, and the role of experts in teams. They also delve into the challenges faced by leaders and managers in quality engineering and the transition to non-hierarchical teams. Phil also brings up the concept of self-organisation, and the impact of culture on team dynamics. The conversation concludes with advice for newcomers in the industry starting their quality engineering journey. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

August 19, 2024Episode 2638 min

Episode 26: Addressing Outer Loop Productivity Blockers with Nishil Patel

Welcome to episode 26 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Nishil Patel, CEO & Founder of BetterBugs. Together, they discuss the evolution of quality engineering and the importance of taking a holistic approach to approach outer loop quality. Nishil Patel starts the conversation by explaining how Betterbug helps improve QA productivity by streamlining bug reporting and providing developers with all the necessary information to debug issues. Bug reporting and feedback collection enhances QA productivity and improves collaboration between testers and developers. It allows testers to record bugs and provide detailed information for debugging, making the bug triaging process more efficient. The conversation between James and Nishil highlights the importance of proactive quality assurance and the role of tools like Betterbug in supporting the quality engineering process. The team then explores the challenges of achieving developer productivity and the need for organizations to focus on the outer loop of software delivery. The team concludes by stating the key to improving quality is not just tooling, but also process optimization and a focus on people. Organizations should identify the gaps in their SDLC and address them through process improvement and collaboration. The goal is to augment people's abilities and productivity, rather than replacing them with technology. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!

August 7, 2024Episode 2546 min

Episode 25: How to Build a Successful QA Team with Natalie Cole

Welcome to episode 25 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and Ben Riley are joined by special guest Natalie Cole, a QE Team Manager and Quality Advocate. Together, they discuss the people, processes, and technology involved in building a successful QA team! Natalie Cole, starts the discussion by sharing her experience managing a team of 10 QAs and software engineers. She highlights the importance of people, process, and technology in building a successful team. Natalie emphasizes the need for the right people with the right skills and work ethics, implementing best practices and processes, and utilizing the right technologies. She also discusses the challenges of shifting towards a test pyramid approach and the importance of involving QA in all phases of the software development life cycle. Natalie advocates for QA and emphasizes the financial and brand benefits of quality testing. The most important aspect for Natalie is catching the majority of defects in QA before critical defects reach production. She emphasizes the importance of conducting root cause analysis and post-mortems to understand and prevent defects. Rich Jordan adds that psychological safety is crucial in using metrics effectively and avoiding blame. The conversation also covers Natalie’s approach to hiring, focusing on work ethic and asking detailed questions about past projects. Natalie also mentions the importance of self-education and staying up-to-date with industry trends. The team also touches on the benefits of practising Behaviour Driven Development (BDD) and the importance of communication and collaboration in eliminating defects early. Natalie advises QE managers to believe in themselves, understand their leadership style, and continuously improve their processes. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!