What the Meta!

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Apr 2024

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About the show

Greetings MetaSapiens! What the Meta is your fun and informative videocast partner in figuring out what the metaverse is and can be. Join Jason Chung and Philip Milestone, two metaspace lawyers, wonks and educators, as they grapple with their virtual lives and identities and figure out how to engage with a new plane of existence. Helping them on their journey are a host of friends – top thinkers, personalities and renegades – who explain key concepts of life such as citizenship, property and love in the metaverse.

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16 recent

April 11, 20241 hr 7 min

DLT and 2023: What in the (virtual) world happened? A Q&A with Zuber Lawler’s Josh Lawler - Ep. 15

Right on time, Philip and Jason delve into what happened in 2023. From huge news in the SEC-Ripple lawsuit to Sam Bankman-Fried being found guilty of defrauding FTX account holders, last year was a wild ride for distributed ledger technology (DLT). Helping Jason overcome his crippling fear of rollercoasters is this episode’s guest Josh Lawler, head of Zuber Lawler’s Emerging Technologies group and DLT guru. Join us as Josh answers questions about DLT regulation, lawsuits and enforcement as well as explains why you should always respect the IRS. Listen and subscribe to figure out where we go from here. Note: Philip would like you to know that he is brave and doesn’t fear rollercoasters. About Josh Lawler: Josh Lawler is an equity partner at the law firm of Zuber Lawler, where he leads the New Technology Practice Group, focusing on novel issues presented by developing technology including Blockchain (distributed ledger), artificial intelligence, robotics, virtual/augmented reality and Internet of things. Josh has over twenty years of experience as a securities attorney with focuses on finance and mergers and acquisitions, as well as intellectual property development and licensing.

December 20, 20231 hr 3 min

Gaming & Web3: Oil & Water or Delicious Salad Dressing - Ep. 14

Join Jason and Philip as they talk about their gaming chops (or lack thereof), what gaming means to them and what trends they foresee at the intersection of gaming and Web3. Then listen as they pivot to talk to a real expert in Alexander Lee, Senior Gaming and Esports Reporter at Digiday, a true final boss of industry knowledge and insights.Together, they delve into the complex and often misunderstood realm of Web3 as it intersects with the gaming community. They discuss how gamers, from casual players to hardcore enthusiasts, are perceiving and interacting with Web3 technologies. Is this the dawn of a new era in gaming, marked by blockchain and cryptocurrencies, or is it merely a trendy wave that will soon crash against the shores of gaming history? Expect a blend of expert analysis, anecdotes and maybe some harsh truths as they unpack whether Web3 represents a lasting innovation in gaming or just another passing fad in the ever-evolving digital landscape.About Alexander Lee: Alexander Lee reports on gaming, esports and the metaverse for Digiday. His work covers the ways in which games and virtual experiences are increasingly converging with mainstream culture and media.

October 19, 202340 min

Do You Even Metaverse Bro? A Conversation With Gen Alpha

Our intrepid co-hosts, Jason and Philip, have finally realized that they are so, so old. To get a better understand of what an actually desirable demographic (Gen Alpha) thinks of the metaverse, they speak to Tycho Milestone, a whipsmart 12-year-old who explains exactly what he thinks of the current metaverse, how it compares to Fortnite and what the metaverse should be like in the future.Editor’s note: Tycho Milestone is the progeny of Philip Milestone but he was not coached or prepped about what to say in any way. What he says is way more interesting than what Philip and Jason have to say anyway.

August 24, 202345 min

Killing Two Birds with One X: What Billionaires Show Us about the Metaverse and Public Spaces - Ep. 12

Jason and Philip are back! After a brief hiatus during which the metaverse dodged, ducked, dipped, dived and dodged, the duo are back to discuss recent tech developments and what it means for the future of the metaverse.First up, they catch up on recent developments in crypto legal land before pivoting to discussing X and Threads and what billionaires capture of the public square might mean for engagement in the metaverse. This is way more exciting than it reads, promise.

April 10, 20231 hr 0 min

Creating Value out of Thin (air)? How to Value “Things” in the Metaverse

Do you remember that cool scene in the Matrix when Morpheus beat Neo in the metaverse dojo and asked “you think that’s air you’re breathing”? Well, I wondered what the value of the property damage to the dojo was.Helping Philip and Jason understand how to value things in the metaverse is Joe Brennan of Houlihan Capital – an expert in valuation in the real world and online. We go through a fake scenario to talk about why things online matter and what value means, like really, man.About Joe Brennan:Joe Brennan is a Vice President in the firm’s Valuation and Financial Advisory Group, where he helps perform valuation work that covers financial reporting, tax, strategic planning, and fairness opinions. Mr. Brennan’s primary focus is on assisting the firm’s crypto asset clients, working closely with fund managers and investment advisers to identify, analyze, and solve unique valuation challenges. Prior to joining Houlihan Capital, Mr. Brennan spent over three years at Cohen & Company, where he specialized in illiquid crypto asset valuation and consulting work for several high-profile hedge fund, venture capital fund, and private equity fund clients that needed assistance while navigating this nascent asset class. Prior to Cohen, Mr. Brennan issued fairness opinions for both buy- and sell-side transactions and annual valuation updates of ESOP-owned companies with annual EBITDA between$500,000 and $120.0 million. Mr. Brennan earned his Bachelor of Science in Accounting and Finance at Marquette University and is a Certified Public Accountant.

February 22, 20231 hr 21 min

Prüf is in the Pudding (on the blockchain)

Have you ever bought anything online and wondered “is this real”? Did you buy a “genuine” Rolex while vacationing overseas? Do you own a Bored Ape – but the JPEG version?Safe to say then that you’ve probably wondered whether what you have is real and therefore valuable.Special guest James Smyth of Prüf joins Jason and Philip to and educate on how blockchain can help with establishing and tracking the history and authenticity of physical and digital assets and how his decentralized, DAO governed protocol works.Join as they pontificate (in a fun way?) about what value authenticity brings, why it’s important and why it’s dumb to fetishize tech.

January 18, 20231 hr 21 min

Issue #9: The Amazing, Spectacular Metaverse: Half Verse / All Meta - Ep. 9

This episode, Jason reveals a love for Top Gun: Maverick and finds his dream “roll” learning about DnD. Philip explains what a dungeon master is, why collective delusion is really cool, and happily speaks up when Jason asks him to “talk to me, Goose.”. Both talk to Eben Matthews, founder of Macroverse, a Web3 entertainment studio seeking to revolutionize storytelling using new business and creative tools offered in spaces like the metaverse and they all get really excited by the idea of multidirectional and fractionalized content. This, of course, leads to lawyers solving everything, intellectual property as the really real and culminates in zero conclusions reached. Stay tuned!www.virtualtimes.comMore about Eben Matthews:Eben Matthews is the Co-Founder and CEO of Macroverse - a web3 studio and platform that is reinventing digital comics and making content that brings creators, collectors, fans and participants at every level together to build the next world-wide entertainment franchises.Eben is a designer, illustrator and content creator with twenty-five years working in advertising, branding, new media, gaming and animation, including work for Nike, Target, Rovio, Activision, Yarn, Shortz, and directing the Creepshow Halloween Special for AMC.The Macroverse founders have been directly responsible for 100M+ game downloads and 20M+ views of produced entertainement content. They have over 75 years of collective experience creating, producing and shipping content across film, television, animation, games, comics and new media. They have the rare personal expertise to craft and build entertainment franchises and the vision to scale a next generation studio using state of the art technologies to empower and reward all involved.

December 1, 202259 min

All You Need is Kill-er Apps

This episode, Philip and Jason wonder if the metaverse is really just a bad video game and whether legs will attract people to Mark Zuckerberg’s virtual boardrooms. Guiding them on their journey of curiosity is investor, entrepreneur and author David Orban, who provides history and context relevant to Web3 and the metaverse and explains why everything new is actually old again. Something, something doomed to repeat history.For more metaverse news visit www.VirtualTimes.comAbout David Orban:David Orban is an aficionado of blockchain technologies and Bitcoin investor since 2010, David Orban was an early adopter of Ethereum at its launch in 2014. He serves on the Faculty of and acts as Advisor to the Singularity University, at the NASA Research Park.Orban is the author of Something New, on artificial intelligence, available in three languages, English, Italian, and Spanish. As a speaker, he has given over 100 talks worldwide.Orban is a mentor for the Thiel Fellowship, a Scientific Advisory Board Member for the Lifeboat Foundation, and an Advisor to the Institute of Ethics and Emergent Technologies. He was the Chairman of the Board, and is an Advisor to Humanity+, promoting scientific advancement and emerging innovation for social impact.Orban’s personal motto is “What is the question I should be asking?” This is his vehicle for accelerating cycles of invention to help build a better world.

November 15, 20221 hr 0 min

Art is in the Eye of the Coin Holder

Ever watch two lawyers talk about art? This isn’t the setup to a joke - this episode Jason and Philip talk about their relationship with art and how art is operationalized and monetized in virtual worlds that need to be created.They are joined by Robbi Firestone, an artist who has successfully sold her digital artwork via blockchain technology and someone passionate about how the metaverse could lead to worlds exploding with creativity and expression.Could is the operative word because if Jason’s doodles make the metaverse, it would become an amateurish hellscape.Watch the videocast at: www.VirtualTimes.com/what-the-metaAbout Robbi Firestone:Robbi Firestone is an internationally renowned NFT & fine artist, Creative Director, NFT project consultant. Firestone interviews "Founders, Builders & Creators bridging Web2 to Web3 to design an Equitable, Sustainable Future for Humanity & Planet On Chain & Beyond.A MakersPlace Featured Artist, Firestone's NFTs exhibited 2022 at SXSW & Art Basel Miami. Other 2022 NFT Art Exhibitions include O(v.)erturned, WOCA DoingGud Gender Equality, Domance, Searchlight NFT Cr3ativeXNYC, Domelandia, FigureGlyph & FortGalleryNFT Future Femme, among others.Firestone's works have been featured in The New York Times, Worth Magazine, LA Travel, Boston Herald, Huffington Post & more. Artistically facile, Firestone explores traditional, digital and non-art mediums, “Best to render the message.” Firestone's art installation, The Empty Womb, premiered @United Nations with same title documentary film about the Firestone by internationally acclaimed filmmaker Betsy Chasse (What the Bleep do We Know?).

October 18, 20221 hr 3 min

Have Fun Storming thepalace.com

This week Philip and Jason talk about how difficult and weird it was to awkwardly interact online during the 90s, an era where slap bracelets and pogs ruled the world unironically and the most famous Kardashian was a lawyer.They’re joined by Mark Jeffrey, a true metaverse pioneer who co-founded The Palace (thepalace.com), an online community with graphical avatars, with investment from Time Warner, Intel and SOFTBANK. The trio talks about how The Palace worked, how it grew and how it’s still operating today as a fan project. They also engage in a frank discussion about how current iterations of the metaverse are boring and how things can get better.We promise they don’t complain about how things were better in their day too much.For news about the metaverse visit VirtualTimes.comAbout Mark Jeffrey:Mark Jeffrey is an award-winning serial entrepreneur and author with Harper Collins. He is currently General Partner at Boolean Fund.Previously, Mark founded the Guardian Circle community emergency response network (NEWSWEEK Blockchain Impact Award (2019), One of FAST COMPANY 'World Changing Ideas' 2018; Partner: XPRIZE Foundation; Featured in TRUST MACHINE (2018), THE RISE OF BLOCKCHAIN (2019). He is also an early pioneer of blockchain technology, having published BITCOIN EXPLAINED SIMPLY (2013) and THE CASE FOR BITCOIN (2016).His previous companies include The Palace (backed by Time Warner, Intel and SoftBank; sold with 10 million users), ZeroDegrees (a business social network sold to InterActiveCorp / IAC in 2004 with 1 million users) and ThisWeekIn (video network). He was the founding CTO of Mahalo / Inside.com (backed by Elon Musk, Sequoia and others).Mark was one of the first people to ever podcast a serialized novel: MAX QUICK: THE POCKET AND THE PENDANT received over 2.5 million downloads in 2005.Mark Jeffrey holds a BS in Computer Science from the University of New Hampshire. On Twitter, he is @markjeffrey.