The Heart & Science of Leadership

Hosted by Dr. Paul "Paulie" Gavoni

Education

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Oct 2026

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About the show

The Heart & Science of Leadership" podcast, co-hosted by Dr. Paulie, offers a comprehensive view of what it takes to lead effectively, no matter your position—be it executive, teacher, manager, principal, supervisor, or coach. Together, they explore the balance between the human side of leadership and evidence-based practices, providing listeners with practical tools, real-life stories, and actionable strategies. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey, this podcast delivers valuable insights that blend heart and science for impactful leadership in any setting.

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49 recent

October 27, 202645 min

Chronic Absenteeism and School Refusal: What School Leaders Can Do with Matt Cicoria

Send us Fan Mail School leaders are working hard to improve learning and support student behavior. But those efforts depend on students actually being there. And when a student starts missing school, the missed instruction and lost connections can make coming back even harder. In this episode of The Heart & Science of Leadership , I’m joined by my good friend and colleague Matt Cicoria to talk about chronic absenteeism, school refusal, and how school leaders can respond. Matt brings more than 25 years of experience in behavior analysis, including nearly two decades focused on school consultation. We look at what students may be escaping at school, what they may be accessing at home, and how well-intended responses from adults can inadvertently strengthen avoidance. We also discuss barriers like housing instability, the importance of addressing bullying and stressful school conditions, and why families need support without another helping of blame. Matt shares practical considerations for recognizing early warning signs, building gradual steps toward attendance, and developing individualized plans with families. And we explore a question school leaders need to consider: Could sending a student home actually increase the behavior we’re trying to reduce? In this episode Recognizing early warning signs. School refusal can show up as morning struggles, resistance to entering the building, avoiding particular classes, arriving late, or leaving early. Understanding the individual situation. Attendance numbers tell us how much school a student is missing. They don’t tell us what’s getting in the way. Looking at reinforcement across home and school. Relief from stressful situations, access to preferred activities, and adult attention can all influence attendance. Supporting families through difficult mornings. Immediate relief for both the child and caregiver can make avoidance more likely to happen again. Building achievable steps toward returning. Some students need a carefully planned progression toward regular attendance. Making school a place students want to be. Safety, relationships, engaging instruction, and support for educators belong in the attendance conversation. Building rapport before offering solutions. Families are more likely to work with us when they feel heard and understood. Episode timestamps 00:00 | Why attendance belongs in the leadership conversation 01:24 | Meet Matt Cicoria 03:53 | Parent blame and punitive responses 07:39 | Defining chronic absenteeism 10:26 | School refusal and its early warning signs 13:20 | What students escape at school and access at home 14:29 | Assessing the reasons behind school refusal 17:57 | Housing instability and barriers beyond the student’s control 19:14 | Attendance initiatives and school-family relationships 22:21 | School conditions, teacher support, and engaging instruction 25:29 | Student anxiety, caregiver distress, and the avoidance cycle 29:51 | Supporting families and building gradual steps toward attendance 32:57 | Rethinking Resilience conference discussion 34:50 | Individualized plans and reinforcement across settings 39:16 | Suspensions, unintended consequences, and the Compass Room 41:19 | Building rapport with families before recommending changes 43:31 | Connect with Matt Resources mentioned Behavioral Observations : Connect with Matt through the website’s contact form. Compass Room : An alternative to suspension discussed in the episode. Dr. Christopher Kearney’s School Refusal Assessment Scale. Rethinking Resilience: Building Schools Where Students and Staff Can Adapt, Recover, and Keep Going . If you lead a school or support attendance teams, share this episode with the people working alongside families to help students return and stay connected. Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

October 2, 2026Episode 248 min

Leadership Starts in the Mirror: A Conversation with David Clark, Who Served Under Four Florida Governors

Send us Fan Mail The Heart & Science of Leadership | Hosted by Dr. Paul “Paulie” Gavoni We hear a lot about holding teachers accountable. But before we ask what teachers need to do differently, we need to ask what their leaders have done to prepare and support them. In this episode, I sit down with David Clark to talk about leadership from the classroom to the governor’s office. David brings experience in government, the military, and business, along with a personal story that changed how he understood himself and his responsibility to others. A parachute malfunction left him with serious injuries, including a brain injury, and forced him to reconsider the abilities and accomplishments he’d built his identity around. We talk about humility, curiosity, and listening when somebody says something you really don’t want to hear. And we get into a question I think every leader should ask: Where can the measure of a leader be found? Improved numbers can hide a workplace full of fear. We need to look at the behavior we’re producing in others and how people experience the conditions we create. Then we turn to education. Teachers are entering classrooms without enough practical preparation, school leaders are under pressure, and responsibility keeps getting pushed down the chain. David and I discuss what leaders at every level need to own, along with how AI and virtual simulations could help educators practice difficult situations, receive feedback, and build skills before they’re expected to perform on their own. If you lead a classroom, a school, a district, or an organization, there’s plenty in this conversation to bring back to your own work. In this episode, we discuss: Staying curious and being willing to admit you don’t know. Turning values like kindness and humility into observable behavior. Listening to understand and keeping disagreements from becoming personal battles. Measuring leadership through its impact on people, alongside organizational results. Getting regular staff feedback while there’s still time to act on it. Preparing teachers through practice and feedback, beyond coursework and theory. Potential uses of AI for educator training, coaching, and personalized instruction. Giving people the support and authority to influence the outcomes they’re held accountable for. About David Clark David Clark is the founder of Allegiant Strategies Group and co-founder and CEO of MyGovGuide . His background includes service under four Florida governors, including as deputy chief of staff to Governor Ron DeSantis, with responsibilities involving education and agencies serving children and families. A former Army airborne officer, David also serves as vice chair of Tallahassee Collegiate Academy’s governing board. Episode timestamps 00:00 — Meet David Clark 01:47 — Curiosity and becoming a student of leadership 04:04 — Defining leadership and a life-changing lesson in humility 10:21 — Translating values into behavior 12:51 — Listening to understand and de-escalating conflict 20:36 — Where do we find the measure of a leader? 26:26 — Staff feedback, voice, and organizational culture 29:41 — Teacher preparation and the cycle of blame 31:55 — AI, simulations, and practicing before performing 37:36 — Exploring personalized instruction with AI 40:38 — Leadership responsibility across the education system 42:07 — Accountability starts with the leader 45:16 — Working together to make change A question to take back to your team: Before you hold someone accountable, have you helped create the conditions for them to succeed? Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

September 8, 2026Episode 152 min

Turning School Success Into a System with Dr. Jon Prince

Send us Fan Mail How does a large school district move from struggling schools to earning its first A rating—and then do it again? In this episode of The Heart and Science of Leadership, I sit down with Dr. Jon Prince, Superintendent of St. Lucie Public Schools, to look beneath the results. We discuss the systems his district has built across more than 40 schools and nearly 50,000 students, including consistent expectations, frequent data checks, differentiated support for principals and teachers, climate surveys, collaborative learning between schools, and follow-up that turns good ideas into actual implementation. But strong systems are only part of the equation. We also dig into leadership, accountability, reinforcement, trust, and the conditions leaders must create before expecting people to perform. Because accountability without support can quickly become compliance—and sustainable results require more than telling people what to do. This is a practical conversation about what it takes to improve performance across an entire district while keeping the focus on the adults responsible for creating better conditions for students. Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

November 3, 2025Episode 91 hr 3 min

Leadership When Life Hits Back: The Paul Anthony Episode

Send us Fan Mail Most people brag about leadership when things are working. When the check clears, the metrics are green, and applause is still flowing. But what happens when the spotlight shuts off… or your body betrays you… or life delivers a sentence most people don’t come back from? In this episode, Dr. Paul “Paulie” Gavoni and AJ Rinaldi sit down with the legendary Paul Anthony — a global music icon turned three-time cancer champion — to explore what leadership looks like when everything that used to define you is gone… except your identity, your energy, and your behavior. Paul’s reaction to a diagnosis labeled “fatal” wasn’t fear. It was clarity: “I’m not changing sh*t.” Not because he ignored reality — but because he refused to surrender the core of who he was. This is an episode about identity under pressure, behavior under fire, and the type of leadership that can’t be faked because it’s lived. 🌟 Who Is Paul Anthony? Paul Anthony is a Grammy Award–certified producer, singer, songwriter, and cultural force from the legendary group FULL FORCE , with multiple Diamond, Platinum, and Gold records. He’s collaborated with icons like James Brown, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, The Black Eyed Peas, Patti Labelle, Nicky Minaj, Britney Spears, Eminem, and more — and starred in the groundbreaking films House Party 1 & 2 . He helped introduce fitness and bodybuilding into hip-hop and pop culture long before it was mainstream. And then life tested him again — not onstage, but in the hospital. He is now a three-time cancer champion , a two-time bone marrow transplant survivor, and a National Advisory Board member for Moffitt Cancer Center. Paul isn’t just a creator of hits. He is a creator of hope, purpose, and behavioral leadership under the harshest conditions possible. 🕒 Timestamps & Key Moments TimeTopic 00:00 | Welcome to The Heart & Science of Leadership 02:10 | Paul Anthony’s early years, music career, and purpose 05:42 | The biopsy and the words “incurable and fatal” 06:18 | “I’m not changing sh*t” — decision over reaction 08:41 | Leadership as energy, not ego 11:52 | “This AND that” — ending scarcity thinking 13:10 | Thousands helped by his mindset and message 16:27 | What legacy looks like when it’s behavioral 19:05 | “I don’t need applause. I need impact.” 22:40 | The shift from entertainer to transformational leader 27:14 | Paul’s call to leaders: stop performing, start reinforcing lives 🧠 Leadership Takeaways Behavior is identity. When pressure rises, reinforcement history is exposed. Leaders who stay anchored to values under stress create psychological safety for others. “This AND that” is a behavioral pivot — widening contingencies instead of shrinking choice. Legacy is measurable: it’s the behavior others repeat because of your influence. The strongest form of leadership isn't charisma — it's consistency in the absence of applause. 🎯 Book Paulie or AJ for Keynotes & Leadership Trainings Want this level of real, science-based leadership brought to your school, company, or event? Dr. Paul “Paulie” Gavoni and AJ Rinaldi deliver keynotes designed to inspire cultural change. 📩 Booking inquiries: thedeliberatecoach@gmail.com 🌍 heartscienceinternational.com Connection to Paul Anthony courtesy of Consulting Producer | Talent & Media Relations Damon Vailiati Jr. Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

August 9, 2025Episode 857 min

Change Isn’t Optional: What Every Leader Needs to Know

Send us Fan Mail In this episode of The Heart & Science of Leadership Podcast , Dr. Paulie and Aj tackle one of the toughest challenges leaders face: change. They explore how change can feel like both an exciting opportunity and a sucker punch in the gut. Drawing on behavior science and real-world leadership experience, Paulie and Aj break down how leaders can navigate change effectively, turning disruption into growth. Whether you’re leading a team, department, or entire organization, this episode offers practical strategies and candid insights to help you manage change with confidence and clarity. Tune in for a fresh perspective on leading through the ups and downs of transformation. Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

June 21, 2025Episode 750 min

The Science of Effective Feedback

Send us Fan Mail Imagine leadership without feedback. It's like trying to navigate a ship without instruments or stars – virtually impossible. In this episode of The Heart & Science of Leadership Podcast , Dr. Paulie Gavoni and A.J. Rinaldi dive deep into one of the most misunderstood tools in a leader’s toolbox— feedback . 📢 Feedback isn't just a way to correct mistakes—it's a powerful lever for shaping culture, improving performance, and building trust. But too often, it's delivered haphazardly, inconsistently, or with the wrong intent. Based on content from Dr. Paulie's best-selling book, The Feedback Effect , they explore: Why most leaders get feedback wrong The behavior science behind effective feedback loops Common myths that sabotage team performance Practical, actionable strategies to give (and get) feedback that actually works Whether you're leading a team, managing a classroom, or coaching others to succeed, this episode breaks down how to use feedback not as a tool for control—but as a catalyst for growth. 🧠 It’s not just about saying something—it’s about shaping something. Remember, leadership isn't about intent, it's about impact. Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

June 8, 2025Episode 645 min

Clear and Compelling: Leading with Vision, Voice, and Authenticity with Salvatore J. Manzi

Send us Fan Mail In this episode, we sit down with communication strategist and leadership coach Salvatore J. Manzi , author of The Clear and Compelling Playbook . With over two decades of experience helping individuals and organizations elevate their presence and clarity, Salvatore shares powerful insights on how to lead with purpose, speak with intention, and create meaningful change—whether you’re in the boardroom, on stage, or navigating day-to-day conversations. We explore what it really means to align your message with your mission, and how to bring your most authentic self to every interaction. From coaching top executives to guiding TEDx speakers, Salvatore brings a wealth of practical tools and behavioral insight to help leaders at every level communicate more effectively and connect more deeply. Whether you're a seasoned leader or an emerging one, this conversation will challenge your assumptions, sharpen your skills, and remind you that real leadership is a daily practice—not a position. 🔗 Learn more and grab the book: clearandcompellingplaybook.com 🔗 Connect with Salvatore on LinkedIn: Salvatore J. Manzi | LinkedIn 🧠 Leadership is behavior. Let’s unlock it—and unleash potential. And remember, it's about impact, not title or intent! Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

May 9, 2025Episode 549 min

Inside the Mind of a Fortune 10 Leader: Kyle McDowell on Leading with WE

Send us Fan Mail In this compelling episode, Dr. Paulie and co-host AJ Rinaldi engage with Kyle McDowell , a former Fortune 10 executive turned leadership coach and bestselling author of Begin With WE . Kyle shares his journey from leading tens of thousands in corporate America to pioneering a leadership philosophy centered on collective empowerment. They delve into the pitfalls of "me-oriented" leadership and explore Kyle's "10 WEs" framework—principles designed to dismantle dysfunction and foster a culture of excellence. Through candid discussions, Kyle emphasizes the importance of authenticity, accountability, and leading by example to inspire teams and drive meaningful change. Whether you're navigating the complexities of organizational leadership or seeking to cultivate a more inclusive and effective team environment, this episode offers actionable insights grounded in real-world experience. 🔑 Key Takeaways: Transitioning from individualistic to collective leadership mindsets Implementing the "10 WEs" to build cohesive and high-performing teams Embracing vulnerability and authenticity as leadership strengths Strategies for transforming toxic work cultures into thriving communities For more on Kyle's leadership philosophy and resources, visit kylemcdowellinc.com . Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

April 20, 2025Episode 453 min

Observable, Measurable, Impactful: Redefining Leadership with Behavior Science

Send us Fan Mail Leadership isn’t a title—it’s a behavior. And while there’s no shortage of leadership theories floating around, this episode goes beneath the surface. Dr. Paul “Paulie” Gavoni and A.J. Rinaldi take a sharp, scientific look at what truly drives leadership that works . Instead of parroting popular slogans, they dig into the behaviors, decisions, and contingencies that make—or break—leaders. It’s not about charisma or command. It’s about the observable, measurable behaviors that produce real results. “We’re not just talking about what leadership looks like—we’re talking about what it produces . That’s where the science comes in.” – Dr. Paulie Gavoni Whether you’re running a school, leading a team, or just trying to lead yourself more effectively, this episode lays the behavioral groundwork. 📘 Ready to level up? Grab your copy of Positional Authority Ain’t Leadership —a no-fluff blueprint for influencing performance through the science of human behavior. Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

March 15, 2025Episode 358 min

The Leadership Language: How to Communicate for Influence, Trust, and Success

Send us Fan Mail Ever wonder why some leaders instantly command respect while others struggle to get their message across? The secret lies not in what they say, but how they communicate it. Communication represents the fundamental difference between leadership that merely directs and leadership that transforms. In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Paul Gavoni and AJ Rinaldi unpack the five critical dimensions of leadership communication that drive organizational success: reinforcing for production, resolving for partnership, reciting for inspiration, reflecting for authenticity, and receiving for understanding. The conversation reveals surprising insights about the science of human behavior, including the optimal 4:1 ratio of positive to corrective feedback and why our natural tendency to focus on problems actually undermines our leadership effectiveness. Both hosts candidly share their personal struggles with public speaking—once their greatest fear—and how they transformed this weakness into a strength through deliberate practice and mindset shifts. Perhaps most powerfully, they challenge the common assumption that communication flows primarily downward in organizations. "When was the last time you directed positive feedback up the chain?" Dr. Gavoni asks, highlighting how true communication creates a culture of mutual respect that flows in all directions. Through practical examples, compelling research, and memorable stories, this episode provides a comprehensive framework for communication that builds trust, resolves conflict, and inspires exceptional performance. Whether you're leading a small team or an entire organization, these evidence-based communication strategies will help you move beyond good intentions to create lasting impact. After all, as the hosts remind us, leadership isn't about title or intent—it's about impact. Link to Respect is a 2-Way Street Article Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In is a comprehensive online course designed to equip behavior interventionists is a goal-oriented, person-centered approach that encourages individuals to explore and resolve ambivalence toward behavioral interventions and change.

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