How Lucas Film partnered with Black anime studio in Japan for Star Wars series
I had the pleasure of interviewing the talented creators behind one of the most powerful episodes of the animated anthology series Star Wars Visions Volume 2 . The episode, titled “The Pit” ais from the mind of writer/producer/director Leandre Thomas of Lucasfilm with animation provided by Arthel Isom , founder of of D’ART Shtajio . With an incredible voice cast featuring Daveed Diggs, Anika Noni Rose , and Jordyn Curet , their contribution to the acclaimed anthology series depicts a young man’s rebellion against Imperial oppression. Leandre and Arthell shared fascinating insights into their creative collaboration, weaving meaningful real-world themes into this inventive animated Star Wars story. We discussed realizing their vision of Black characters in the Star Wars Universe and how the created a new Black character that uses the Force for the series. Arthel Isom of D’ARt Shtajio and LeAndre Thomas of LucasFilm created “The Pit” for Star Wars Visions II LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed this interview please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! THIS WEEK’S SPONSOR GET TICKET TO VIRTUOUS CON 2024 NOW! SHOW NOTES Star Wars Visions II Fix your credit with SELF! theblerdgurl Patreon D’ART Shtajio LeAndre Thomas
November 16, 20231 hr 21 min
How Stephanie Williams conquered the comic book game
Hey everyone! Welcome back to another episode of THEBLERDGURL PODCAST . I’m thrilled about this week’s chat with the talented Stephanie Williams . If you’ve dived into the comic book world, you’ve likely encountered her work in “Nubia: Queen of the Amazons” “Wakanda #1,” “Marvel’s Voices The Family Snikt,” “ Magic the Gathering: Planeswalkers ,” and “ Strange and Unsung All-Stars of the DC Universe.” Keep an eye out for her upcoming “Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur: Wreck N’ Roll.” Also, she’s the host of Prime Video’s Superhero Club and manages the whole wife, mom, and sports enthusiast gig. Now, heads up, this episode is a bit longer than usual, but fear not! You can catch some bonus content over on Patreon. Enjoy the show! This episode was sponsored by Otaku Noir Stephanie Williams has magically found a way to balance her full-time career as a comic book writer with being a a wife, mom and sports fan. LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! THIS WEEK’S SPONSORS otaku noir DISCOUNT CODE: THEBLERDGURL SHOW NOTES Otaku Noir Mystery Box Fix your credit with SELF! theblerdgurl Patreon
November 8, 202326 min
Sasheer Zamata on Witches, Wokeness and Women
According to the National Library of Medicine, video games are more than just play; they’ve been shown to help with various mental disorders, from ADHD to anxiety. That’s the heart of what we’re getting into on this week’s episode of “Theblerdgurl Podcast.” I had the chance to sit down with Derrick Hoard, aka “The Situational Therapist.” He’s a practicing therapist and a gamer, which means he really gets the potential games have for our mental health. Derrick and I chatted about how gaming is often misunderstood. It’s not just about addiction or escape—sometimes, it’s a vital social lifeline. (This episode was set for May, but hey, better late than never, right?) This episode is packed with insights, but remember, it’s no replacement for one-on-one professional guidance. If you find it resonates, don’t hesitate to seek out a therapist. (I’ve left a couple of resources in the show notes) This episode was sponsored by Otaku Noir Sasheer Zamata wrote and co-produced her latest stand-up special “The First Woman” before seh was cast in “Agatha: Darkhold Diaries” LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! THIS WEEK’S SPONSORS otaku noir DISCOUNT CODE: THEBLERDGURL Watch “The First Woman” below SHOW NOTES Otaku Noir Mystery Box Watch “The First Woman”
November 4, 202339 min
The Situational Therapist: Gaming Through a Mental Health Lens
According to the National Library of Medicine, video games are more than just play; they’ve been shown to help with various mental disorders, from ADHD to anxiety. That’s the heart of what we’re getting into on this week’s episode of “Theblerdgurl Podcast.” I had the chance to sit down with Derrick Hoard, aka “The Situational Therapist.” He’s a practicing therapist and a gamer, which means he really gets the potential games have for our mental health. Derrick and I chatted about how gaming is often misunderstood. It’s not just about addiction or escape—sometimes, it’s a vital social lifeline. (This episode was set for May, but hey, better late than never, right?) This episode is packed with insights, but remember, it’s no replacement for one-on-one professional guidance. If you find it resonates, don’t hesitate to seek out a therapist. (I’ve left a couple of resources in the show notes) NOTE: DERRICK IS A LICENSED FAMILY THERAPIST NOT A CLINICAL DOCTOR. This episode was sponsored by Otaku Noir Derrick Hoard is a licensed family therapist also known as “TheSituational Therapist” LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! THIS WEEK’S SPONSORS otaku noir DISCOUNT CODE: THEBLERDGURL SHOW NOTES NOTE: DERRICK IS A LICENSED FAMILY THERAPIST NOT A CLINICAL DOCTOR. Otaku Noir Mystery Box Fix your credit with SELF! Therapy for Black Girls JED Foundation
November 1, 202349 min
From the Boondocks to Blacula Rodney Barnes shows us how it's done
In this episode of THEBLERDGURL® PODCAST Karama welcomes back the multi-talented Rodney Barnes , a seasoned writer with an impressive career spanning from ’90s shows like “The Boondocks” and “Everybody Hates Chris” to his current work, “Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty” and “Wu Tang: An American Saga.” During their chat, Rodney shares some exciting news about his upcoming comic project, “Florence and Normandie,” which is a cool collaboration with rapper Xzibit. and reveals Todd McFarlane agreed to a SPAWN appeaernce in “Killadelphia” . And just in time for Halloween, Rodney has dropped the trailer for his new horror podcast, “Run Fool.” It’s perfect for horror fans who love creepy anthologies. This was a really fun epsidoe. Please comment and subscribe! Rodney Barnes will launch the new horror podcast ” Run Fool” in November LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! Watch this interview on youtube THIS WEEK’S SPONSORS otaku noir DISCOUNT CODE: THEBLERDGURL SHOW NOTES Otaku Noir Mystery Box Killadelphia Run Fool podcast Florence & Normandie Blacula: Return of the King Transcript Email Download New Tab Karama (00:00:00) - Rodney, I am so excited that you are back to join me. It's been a minute. I think the last time I talked to you it was my live stream on Twitch and it was like 2021, which is like 35 years ago. Rodney (00:00:13) - That's way too long. That's way too long. I'm about ten years older. Exactly. Karama (00:00:18) - It's like I keep telling everybody like the pandemic was the blip, so we all lost about a decade. I have some notes about what we talked about last time, and I think this is going to be really fun, sort of walk down memory lane for a second. So you were in the writers room for Winning Time season one the first time we spoke, winning Time The rise of the Lakers. Your hit show on Max now, season two just finished airing, and you've won a Black award and were nominated for an Emmy. Congrats. And you also did a podcast for that show, right? Rodney (00:00:49) - Yes, I did the Winning Time podcast. Yeah. Karama (00:00:52) - You also had just launched your own imprint, Zombie Love Studios, and inked a deal with Substack, where you run your Dark Apocrypha newsletter. Karama (00:01:00) - Full disclosure I'm a subscriber. Nita Hawes: Nightmare blog, the spin off To KillAdelphia, had just come out, and you hinted that you might be doing a little something with Blacula. Yes. And now Blacula and Nita Hauser out kill Adelphia continues. You had another kids comic, I think Monster Monarch. Rodney (00:01:21) - I did a book. Monarch. Yeah, it was a little bloody for kids, but yes. Karama (00:01:25) - And then I saw. Rodney (00:01:26) - Kids in it. Karama (00:01:26) - There were kids in it. Rodney (00:01:27) - Running for their lives. But yes, yes, poor kids. Karama (00:01:31) - It was like anime. You were just killing them. Yeah. Rodney (00:01:33) - There you go. There you go, there you go. Karama (00:01:36) - And then I saw a mandalorian comic in there. Um, and then you recently you announced a comic with exhibit, and then somebody from your team sent me an Alice Cooper comic that features Prince and Michael Jackson in hell with Richard Pryor. Rodney (00:01:53) - There you go. Karama (00:01:54) - Yes. What are. Rodney (00:01:55) - You. Miles Davis is in the background to. Oh my. Karama (00:01:57) - God. So let's start with these comics, man. Uh, and also, since, you know, we're in spooky season and horror is your jam. Yep. Blacula return of the King. Yeah, that dropped January of this year, which also probably feels like 20 years ago. Rodney (00:02:15) - It does. Karama (00:02:16) - For those who don't know what is the premise. Is this tied to the original movie? Rodney (00:02:20) - It is tied to it. I actually do a recap in every chapter is five chapters long and every chapter. I sort of use the movie as motivation and incentive to to sort of say why I did this. It's not literal in that sense, but why Prince Marmalade, aka Blacula is still relevant, why he fits in today's world, and then the ongoing narrative within the story is supporting that idea that he does fit in this world, and that he has a place and a significant place, and hopefully folks dig it. Karama (00:02:59) - Well, it seems like a lot of folks are digging it. I believe that is the hardcover out. Rodney (00:03:04) - The full hardcover comes out this spring that's actually being printed as we speak, but I think it's in previews now. Karama (00:03:13) - And did Jason Shawn Alexander do the art on that or he did. That's your buddy. That's your partner in crime? Rodney (00:03:19) - I don't know how when I when it's over for me and I get to wherever I'm going, I'm going to ask, what was Jason? Why do you why did y'all put me with Jason? Of all the people in the world, we have the same birthday to do. Karama (00:03:30) - You really? Rodney (00:03:30) - We do have the same birthday for being so different as human beings. We. It's like the universe is teasing us in some way. Karama (00:03:38) - Wait, when's your now? I got to know. When's your birthday? Rodney (00:03:39) - September 19th. Karama (00:03:41) - I was just it just passed. Well, in fact, it passed a month ago. So happy belated, happy belated. Thank you very much. Jason's art is absolutely incredible. And that's one of the things that I've been like, fascinated with watching. Karama (00:03:55) - Um, now winning time. Rodney (00:04:00) - Winning time was canceled. Karama (00:04:02) - Because Max canceled a lot of things this year. Rodney (00:04:04) - It did, and we were along with it. I mean, I think it was tough. Whenever you try to bring a show in the midst of two strikes where you can't really properly promote it, a lot of people didn't even know we were back on, but very proud of the work that we did. You know, that was a it was an online campaign, I think, to try to bring the show back. And a lot of people who were outraged that the show had ended, so glad that some people loved it. And, you know, onward and upward. Karama (00:04:36) - Absolutely. I mean, you have a long career in television and you've done so many incredible, incredible shows. I'm sure you're going to have another fantastic one next. Rodney (00:04:47) - Lord willing. Karama (00:04:48) - The you will. Oh, stop. Okay. Rodney (00:04:51) - My kids are outside shipping right now. They nervous? Karama (00:04:54) - Oh my God. Rodney (00:04:55) - Is this it? Is it over daddy? I'm like well I don't know. Rodney (00:04:59) - It's. Everything's got to end well. Karama (00:05:00) - Let's talk let's talk about the strike just briefly. Because for people who don't understand that the actors union is still on strike, but the writers strike is now officially over. What was the win? What what was the the thing that you guys were able to do? And I know when I say you guys, I am clearly not referring to you yourself as the person who was doing all the negotiating, but. Rodney (00:05:25) - I wish I was. No, I mean, I think we got we got the bumps in and pension and health care that typically we're shooting for. But I think the bigger things are limitations with AI restrictions as to how it's going to be used, larger writers rooms so that younger people get an opportunity to come in and build careers. Also, they can stay on writers get to stay on during production, which means that writers can come to set and they can learn how to actually produce and figure out how everything works. As far as the set is concerned. Rodney (00:06:00) - And, you know, more often than not, you know, showrunners or executive producers are the only ones that stay on and come to set. And now the actual writer can as well. So there's a myriad of things. I mean, it's a really long list of stuff, but it was a win. I'm just sorry that it took so long, like so many months and there was so much acrimony. And, you know, a lot of people lost a lot of money and a lot of things, so that's unfortunate. Karama (00:06:24) - Yeah. It's tough, you know? And like you said, a lot of people like yourself have kids, have families, have mortgages. And, you know, while you're striking, you're trying to stay afloat, you know. Rodney (00:06:34) - Manage all that. Karama (00:06:34) - Stuff. Yeah. It's it's it's tough. But I'm happy that a resolution was achieved. And I can't wait to see your your next TV show, too. But in the meantime, you got 157 comics. I do so. Rodney (00:06:49) - Far too many as I look up to my board. Um, far too many books. Well, the. Karama (00:06:55) - Last time we spoke, you said. I feel like I took a note on this. You said you you write something like 12 or 13 books a month. Are you still running at that pace? Rodney (00:07:04) - It's 8 to 10 now. Okay. It feels like 12 to 13. Yeah. Karama (00:07:09) - The. So. Okay, Blacula, is that getting another volume or is that okay. So you have that going on. Rodney (00:07:17) - I want to do three volumes of Blacula. Blacula takes a little bit longer because both Jason and I are really, really busy. It's an expensive book to put together. It's a labor of love. So it's not just something that you sort of crank out. Karama (00:07:31) - Yeah, it's very lyrical. Even the way the text comes in and out, it's not the same as your average like nine panel up, you know, fit everything in nice box. Rodney (00:07:41) - It's inspired. Yeah. It's inspired. Karama (00:07:42) - It's very inspired. You have all these other comics, these monarch now like the last one. Again, it's not necessarily for children. It's about children. It's another horror comic. The last volume drops or the next the. Rodney (00:07:56) - Trade comes out. The trade is fortunately right. Well look at this. So this dropped about two weeks ago, a week ago I think a week ago for the trade paperback. But issue number six, which was the last issue in this miniseries, came out about two weeks before, two weeks prior. Karama (00:08:21) - Okay. And for those who don't know what monarch is about, let's share a little bit about that. Rodney (00:08:26) - Monarch is about an alien invasion that takes place in Compton on a regular day, seemingly above a middle school. And that's how the kids get involved. And unfortunately, many of the teachers don't make it. The kids are the only ones that do, and they have to figure out how to survive amidst it. But there is one of the kids who may not be what he appears to be, so got it. Karama (00:08:53) - Okay, so it's, you know, attack the block, Compton. But homeroom date. Rodney (00:08:58) - You should have. You should have done that. I wasted everybody's time. You did it way better than I did. I don't even know why you let me talk. I should just sit here. You just sold the book. I'm ready to buy six trade backs myself. Karama (00:09:13) - Now why, Compton? Why don't you set it in Compton? Rodney (00:09:16) - Because typically you don't see, you know, attacks from space, you know, things that have earthly implications. You know, massive scale. They typically only happen in, like, New York, LA, like over major cities. They don't they aren't very intimate. So I wanted to figure out a place that was intimate, that could speak directly to the culture. And more so than having this expansive thing. If you think Independence Day, you know, when they're over the white House and they're over certain cities and you've got the president involved, and yeah, there's some regular folks involved, but they have the power to make major decisions and affect this thing. Rodney (00:09:56) - If you're just kids, you got to figure out how to survive. Yeah. So it's a much more intimate story. Karama (00:10:02) - So Mandalorian, I have written one licensed comic and you've written a lot more. But in my limited experience, the playground smaller because you're playing with somebody else's toys. But is it fun to be in that Star Wars universe? Rodney (00:10:19) - So yeah, it's an honor. It's it's an honor to be able to play in such a big world. I mean, I think I've done adaptations and just regular scripted stories, too, but with the adaptations, they're very as you said, the boundaries are a lot closer and you have to work within the margins. I'm basically making the TV show a comic book, okay, I have to take something that's an hour long and make it 30 pages, which is 30 minutes of a sort. So it's all about picking and choosing what's going to live and what's going to die. You know, as far as the TV show is concerned, fans seem pretty happy with how we've adapted and, you know, put this thing together. Karama (00:11:06) - Are you able to add anything in extra or do you literally? Yeah, that's the thing with license. Rodney (00:11:11) - Even when I have like the quiet moments in the show when The Mandalorian is walking across the desert, I tried to put in some thoughts and to take all that out. All that's good, man. Now, ah, have you saw up there is what I got? Karama (00:11:24) - What you have to. What you have to write. Well, are they making you go like is it each comic is an episode? Is it like that or is it? Rodney (00:11:32) - Oh, each comic is an episode. And you do season one. I've done season one. Season two, and I'm waiting for season three. Karama (00:11:37) - Gotcha. I mean, that's that's and it's interesting because you would think they'd want to expand a little bit, but I guess they're trying to play into people who might not watch the show but be interested in specifically the comics. But fans are going to buy all of it, I think. Rodney (00:11:53) - Yeah, or they have. Rodney (00:11:54) - They bought a half a million of the first one. Karama (00:11:56) - So whoa. Awesome. And also, you are now part of the Star Wars universe. I am. Rodney (00:12:02) - I. Karama (00:12:02) - Am. That's the coolest part of going to like any of the wiki. Like when I go to Marvel Wiki, I'm like, ha! I created that. Like, so you could like go to the Star Wars Wiki. And when they talk about the Mandalorian comic, like your name is in there, it's in you are. Rodney (00:12:14) - Now or now, gee, $88. I'm doing a new Star Wars scripted book now. So yeah. Karama (00:12:19) - Now, is that a prose or is it a comic book? Rodney (00:12:22) - I have one, no, it's a comic. I have one series that's new. It's a horror series. Star Wars horror series I can't talk about. And then I have another adaptation of another Star Wars property that I can't talk about either. But I can say I'm doing it. Karama (00:12:39) - But horror is your jam, so they knew what they were doing. Rodney (00:12:44) - It seems like there's something there. I mean, I think because television has mostly been comedy and drama with some general sprinkled in, I wanted to get my horror fix in some way. I didn't want these things to fall by the wayside when you had ideas. So, you know, it's a nice way to be able to to express oneself in the horror realm. Karama (00:13:07) - It's kind of working for you because we're about to be 31 issues into Philadelphia. Rodney (00:13:12) - We are, we are. Karama (00:13:13) - And I just got a chance to see the 31st issue. And I was tripping because I'm like, that's SPAWN. Rodney (00:13:20) - That is bomb. Karama (00:13:21) - That is not Seesaw, that is SPAWN Rodney (00:13:24) - No Seesaw was in there. Yeah. Him and SPAWN are in panels together and talking and doing a whole bunch of stuff. But yeah, we've got. Karama (00:13:32) - There doing more than a whole bunch of stuff. He kicks his ass. There you go. Rodney (00:13:35) - I'm glad you said I don't even know why I'm talking. You said so much better with so much more energy. Rodney (00:13:43) - Yeah, this six arc is kind of eventful for our little book. We've got spawn, we've got Blacula, we've got Dracula, we've got. So wait. Karama (00:13:52) - You can bring your you're bringing Blacula, your Blacula. Rodney (00:13:56) - Oh, my Blacula and the killer Duffy, this is throwing everything at the wall. Karama (00:13:59) - And Anansi's already in there. Rodney (00:14:01) - Anansi's already in there. Karama (00:14:02) - Yep. So? So how did you get spawned? Like, is it. I mean, obviously Jason's drawing him, but, like, did you have to sit down with Todd McFarlane and go, this is what I'm doing for six issues? Rodney (00:14:11) - Jason begged for a long time, and then I had a zoom and I kind of begged. But Jason had laid the foundation for the begging that I didn't have to beg too much. I had to basically just say, I know most of the alphabet and I promise not to do anything bad. And so there you go. Karama (00:14:32) - I was wondering when that that was like a fight or whatnot. Todd was like, as long as I co-write it because I know, no, no. Rodney (00:14:37) - He was incredible. No. Okay. Todd. Karama (00:14:39) - Father's cool. Okay. Todd. Father. Yeah, I forgot his cool. Todd. Father I forgot. Oh my goodness. Oh. Need a horse? So need a horse. Weaves in and out anyway, because she's from the Adelphia universe. Rodney (00:14:53) - She's in there too. She's in there for arc number six, too. She has her own thing and her connection. Be close with Blacula. Okay, then in the main fights, there's two things happening at the same time. You've got a fight happening in the streets, and then on the other hand, you have more of a quieter story about what the implications are for later on down the road for everything. So her James junior, Josie, they're kind of in the house wondering what's going to happen next. And then there'll be a knock on the door and they'll find out what's going to happen next. Karama (00:15:28) - And then blood happens. There you go. Okay. It always comes. Rodney (00:15:32) - Down to blood. Karama (00:15:34) - Now, the Florence and Normandie. That's your new comic coming out with exhibit? Yes. So love book, first of all, where did you find exhibit? Where I found. Rodney (00:15:47) - Exhibit. He was out rapping somewhere. Well, in the Fox Hills Mall. No exhibit is a friend. And we were talking one day and he knew that I did comics. And you can't follow me on Instagram and not see comics somewhere. And he said, you know, man, I got this idea. Okay, what's your idea? And as he talks, because I'm neurotic anyway, I'm forming. I'm doing a thing as he's talking. I'm just going through the Rodney later and. Karama (00:16:20) - The Rodney later. Rodney (00:16:21) - Yeah, it's a computer. Karama (00:16:22) - So. Yes. Rodney (00:16:23) - This way. Older than the first Mac. And, you know, coming up with a story. And then as he stopped talking, I was like, you mean something like this? And then I started talking. He was like, yeah, something like that. Rodney (00:16:35) - And then we went back and forth and back and forth, and then I sat down and wrote a script, and he dug the script. And John, we did the art and we were off to the races. Karama (00:16:46) - So now this is also horror, obviously. But what are they running from? Is this I feel like it's zombies. Aliens? No, it's aliens. Aliens. It's aliens. Rodney (00:16:55) - We have another alien book. It's different than monarch in the sense that monarch is mostly an intimate setting and intimate implications just for those characters that are right there. Florence and Normandy has global implications, and it's it gets more of the idea of what you would expect the LA rap scene and what when you look at a video, any of those videos from that period of time, like The Chronic and all of that stuff, there are things that you see, you know, the imagery, that imagery is a part of this story, and it feels more like LA than monarch does. Karama (00:17:33) - Okay. Rodney (00:17:34) - And they're flashbacks to the symbolism of what Florence and Normandy represents and all of that. Rodney (00:17:39) - There's a cop, there's a kid. It's more political, I guess. In some ways. So does it. A lot of stuff going on, but. Karama (00:17:45) - It also looks like it might have like a little buddy comedy. Rodney (00:17:50) - It know there's there's some jokes, but it's not so much. No, it's closer to The Defiant Ones. Okay. Movie The Defiant Ones, where two people are forced to work together in order to save themselves, but they hate each other, natural and enemies in this world that they operate in. Karama (00:18:10) - Got it. Okay. And is that out or is that coming soon? Rodney (00:18:13) - It's coming spring. Karama (00:18:14) - So we're going to have to maybe circle back exhibit. Yes, please. You can have this conversation. Rodney (00:18:18) - Exhibit on here. Karama (00:18:19) - Too. Yeah. And then we can come up with like all of the little acronyms for all of the characters and everything. Yes. So Alice Cooper, yes, I need to understand because this image that I was set has, like you said, I'm looking at Richard Pryor and Prince and Michael Jackson and they're in hell. Rodney (00:18:46) - No, they're not in hell. They're not in. Karama (00:18:48) - Hell. Where are they? Because I see I see the devil. Rodney (00:18:51) - But hold on, hold on, hold on. Between heaven and hell. Like in a purgatory like state. Got you. There is a blues club, okay? The devil desperately wants to be an entertainer. He is the main act in this club. Karama (00:19:08) - And you better clap. Rodney (00:19:09) - And he has gotten all of the famous musicians that are in the afterlife to come in to see him play. So that's where all of these people, Richard Pryor is the headliner. This person, it's like they all get an opportunity to play again, and then they go off to heaven, hell, wherever they go. But they are not in hell because the devil happens to be there and the devil loves the blues. Karama (00:19:33) - And that was the pitch. Rodney (00:19:35) - Yes, that's the pitch. Karama (00:19:36) - So how does Alice Cooper get involved? He's trying to keep the devil from here's the problem. Rodney (00:19:41) - Once the devil does. Rodney (00:19:43) - Okay. Now he's like everybody saying, it's great to play for us. You know, we are legends and we are who we are. But really, music is about the people. Karama (00:19:55) - Uh oh. Rodney (00:19:55) - So you got to go to Earth and you got to be accepted by the people if you want to be a star. And so the devil goes to earth, but he finds out you've got all these other acts that you got to compete with and his demo, because no young people really like the blues skews older. Right? So certain people, you know, he eliminates a lot of bands and turns them to dust. U2 doesn't make it the Eagles, any of those people. Earth, wind and fire. Karama (00:20:26) - Is it personal? Is that personal? Rodney (00:20:28) - It's not personal. No no no no. Karama (00:20:29) - Okay. I'm just second. God. Rodney (00:20:31) - Just saw you too. I love you too. Big picture of me and Bono right over there. There you go. Alice Cooper is in this mix of stars that he's trying to eliminate. Rodney (00:20:41) - And little does the devil know, but Alice Cooper has a relationship with the netherworld. And so they clash. And it ends up to where now we have a final, the final conflict between Alice Cooper and the devil at the crossroads. The musical crossroads, of course. Karama (00:21:01) - Well, there's always a crossroads. That sounds incredible. Let's listen. Rodney (00:21:04) - I it's fun. It's a lot of fun. Karama (00:21:06) - I can't wait to also talk to you about your podcast run full, but we're going to have to take a break. Yes, but when we come back, we're going to talk to Rodney Barnes about his horror podcast anthology, Run Fool, and also how he gets all of this done. So we'll be right back. Speaker 3 (00:21:31) - I was little. Speaker 4 (00:21:32) - My grandmother used to tell me stories. Not calming bedtime parables. Fairy tales of the stuff of kid friendly fantasy. She told me horror stories, cautionary tales. The type of stuff that kept me up at night. These were rumours and folklore about grisly murders from parts of the country you're not used to hearing about. Speaker 4 (00:21:54) - Creatures with unfinished earthly business that stalked the woods at night. Spirits that possessed children. Otherworldly phenomena capable of inducing madness. Restless souls. My grandmother eventually passed and I grew up. But these stories, they've stayed with me, haunted me. And this show. The thing you're listening to right now. This is my chance to exorcise them. To get them out of my mind and into yours. My name is Rodney Barnes, and every week I'll present a new harrowing story, a new immersive world, and a new opportunity for you to question your safety and at times, your sanity for you to scream out as victims question their circumstances. Don't just stand there. Run for. From Campsite Media at Will Media and Ball Studios. This is run full follow run for wherever you get your podcast. New episodes come out every Tuesday starting November 14th. Rodney (00:23:10) - There you go. Karama (00:23:11) - Welcome back to the Blair Girl podcast, y'all. I'm Karamo Horne, aka The Blurred Girl, and I have the legendary writer, producer, combo creator, and now podcaster Rodney Barnes with me. Karama (00:23:25) - And we're going to talk about his new horror podcast, Run Fool. It's like an anthology of stories, right? It's not one long story. Rodney (00:23:35) - No, it's it's anthology. Every week there's a new story, a new horror story, basically reading you a scary bedtime story. And the way it came together was I was talking to Matt Scher from a campsite media and another company. They had a they had done a podcast that I was going to adapt for television. And so weeks and weeks and weeks, we weren't we weren't able to put that together with me. But eventually they asked if I had anything podcast was would I be interested in doing a podcast? Because I had done the Winning Time podcast and that had been relatively successful. So I was like, sure, I love horror. Would you consider something in a horror space? So I came back to him with the concept. They dug it and we started developing it, and we've been developing it for the past six months or so and got some really great writers and folks and producers. Rodney (00:24:32) - And Mr. Baldwin, who does, has his own thing and is huge in the podcast space and at will media and campsite. And so it's a big deal. A lot of work in podcasts. It's like another job. Karama (00:24:46) - It is a lot of work. I co-produced and co-hosted a horror podcast last year called Pop Paranormal with my my boyfriend Chuck Collins. But it's a lot of work because there's a lot of moving parts, and then you get guests and your guests. It's timing, and then there's editing, and then you get to go back and do all the, you know, it's not as I don't even want to call this podcast simple, but I don't have all the sound effects and bells and whistles that you have. Is there like a writers room for a show like that? No. Rodney (00:25:18) - They writers come, they're contract writers to actually write stories. A lot of it is based on folktales that already exist. So the framework is already there for most of the stories. It's just a matter of putting them together. Rodney (00:25:34) - I mean, we operate, we have weekly meetings, sometimes biweekly, and we add and subtract, and all the producers have a hand in writing the episodes. There's a core team of writers that lay the foundation, but we all have a say and we all have a hand and we all get into it. So it's not official writer's room like in television, but there is certainly input from a lot of different places. Karama (00:26:00) - Are you dropping everything at once? Are you doing. No. It's one week, okay? Rodney (00:26:05) - Yes, one a week, I think the first. November the 14th or 15th. When it drops. There'll be two episodes released on that day. The trailer comes out on Halloween, and then we're off to the races for the next 48 weeks. Karama (00:26:19) - For four wait, 4 to 8 weeks, or 48, 48. Rodney (00:26:23) - Weeks. Karama (00:26:23) - Whoa. Okay, so so you're not doing like ten episodes, season one and then take a break. Rodney (00:26:30) - Eight episodes. It's an ongoing podcast. Karama (00:26:32) - Wow. That is a yes. Karama (00:26:35) - That is a job. That is a job. That's why you got that spiffy new microphone. I'm very proud of you. Rodney (00:26:39) - Yeah. This is from Winning Time. That was the winning time okay. Now they're going to want it back. But yeah that's what daddy, don't tell them. Karama (00:26:47) - Tell him you can't find it. Tell them you can't find it. Exactly. Listen, listen, I got this. If discovery calls, I'm in trouble because I ain't let this one go. Rodney (00:26:56) - This microphone go. These headsets all upstairs. I don't want any of this. Karama (00:27:02) - So I want to now hop into the why and the how of what you do. So my biggest question, what I've been meaning to ask you for a while is Substack. Yeah. So your media company Zombie Love Media. Rodney (00:27:19) - Zombie Love Studios. But under that is media. But yes. Karama (00:27:22) - The umbrella company is Zombie Love Studios. Now, Substack doesn't have to. They have a piece of that. Rodney (00:27:28) - No. Karama (00:27:29) - Okay. So that's yours. Karama (00:27:30) - Yes. Okay. But you were one of the well, I want to say few black folks, but few people in general that I think it was. Back in 2020, it was announced that Substack was giving a deal to to several comic book creators. Now, I know you legally can't tell me all the specific specifics of the deal, but three years later, does it seem like it was worth it? Rodney (00:27:51) - It does. I mean, I think that there isn't comics. I have such a hard time with marketing. I think it's it's folks like yourself that even keep the community alive. Certainly when you talk about people of color, because it's not like it was when I was growing up where you had comics on a spinner wreck in every store, and you could just get them for $0.20, and they were like disposable entertainment. Now they're five bucks, four bucks, five bucks, and you have to have a comic shop in your neighborhood, or you have to get them online someplace in order to be able to be a part of the community. Rodney (00:28:28) - It's a lot harder. And I think the idea of the Substack being able to get it directly into people's hands in a digital way is a great idea. I just think that it's a commitment in and of itself just to continuously engage, engage, engage. So, you know, I'm blessed to be able to have that outlet, to be able to deal with folks directly. I just wish it was more structured somewhat the way a comic shop would be. Karama (00:29:00) - But yeah, yeah, so that people can come in and find go to the direct and they know. Rodney (00:29:04) - Exactly how to do a thing and they can, you know, take it in easier. But I still love the idea of it, and I love it. Karama (00:29:11) - Because there's a lot of these little imprints digital popping up now like outside of Substack, like, oh, me and seven other artists that yes, eight writers are all coming together and we're going to do a thing. It's like, okay, but how do we get that, though? Rodney (00:29:25) - Exactly. Rodney (00:29:26) - That's the thing. The thing is, when you have so many people doing so many different things, you still come back to, this is great, but how do you get it in people's hands? Karama (00:29:34) - And even as like on the press side, I remember like TKO, I'm just using an example. They've got a great thing and all of their their whole thing is not floppies, but graphic novels all the time. And they do great deals for their artists and writers and everything. But as press, it was like pulling teeth to get an interview or trying to get like, who do I talk to? And everybody's all on Twitter saying how amazing it is. And I'm like, awesome, can I talk to the person that made this though? Exactly. And it's like, who? What number do I, you know, what email. And so it's funny, one of the things I do on the side sometimes is coach creators on marketing, because even they're not even paying writers to write at outlets anymore. Karama (00:30:20) - Like my whole column is gone in sci fi, like they're not even so. And then I'm looking like, should I start a Substack? But then it's the same thing. Like, how are they going to find me? How are they going to? So I'm hoping getting the this going again is going to is going to help. But yeah, it's it's really difficult and there's so much work that goes into these and especially like yourself because you got, you know, 15, 11 kids and 13 comic books month. Rodney (00:30:49) - They seem like they get younger too. They don't get older and move out. They get they stay at they go anyway. Been ten for five years. Karama (00:30:57) - No, but you know what? It's because eggs are. Are $10 in Cheerios or 15. Like you can't. They can't leave. Rodney (00:31:04) - No. And they don't want to leave. There's no incentive. I couldn't wait to get out of my mother's house. You, me, both kids, they want to. Karama (00:31:11) - I cross state lines. Karama (00:31:12) - I had to go. Rodney (00:31:13) - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I left the planet if I couldn't, but. Yeah. Karama (00:31:19) - So let's talk about that balance a little bit. How do you balance? I mean, right now you're not in a writer's room, but how did you balance winning time with Philadelphia and Substack. Like how do you mean it was. Rodney (00:31:34) - And I was writing a couple of movies during the time and all of that. But I think zoom from Covid helped a lot. That helped an awful lot. Karama (00:31:41) - People no longer felt the need to be like in the meeting. Rodney (00:31:44) - It wasn't quite as what it was right before Covid. So. Karama (00:31:48) - So no getting stuck on the ten for 32 hours. Rodney (00:31:51) - Or five, 4 or 5. I was the one for five was the one, you know, I could make it around to ten, but I couldn't make it. You need the 4 or 5 unless you try Sepulveda. And everybody else has that idea now too. Karama (00:32:02) - And now it's a parking lot. Rodney (00:32:04) - Yeah. So zoom, zoom was really the big thing. Karama (00:32:08) - I subscribed to Dark Apocrypha, which is a Substack. Do you have something that helps you write that? Are you writing and then have somebody else edit it and get it out? Like, how are you getting all the things moving? Rodney (00:32:19) - One of my assistants, I have two assistants, Carlos and Anthony Anthony does. He manages the majority of the newsletter and cobbling all the information and basically pitching how things work and go. And this week we should talk about this and yeah, yeah, that sounds good. Do that. He could be saying anything about me. Anthony, I love you. Karama (00:32:41) - Just so you honestly, he's making you sound amazing. Rodney (00:32:44) - Thank you Anthony I appreciate it. Karama (00:32:46) - So Anthony get give Anthony a nice Christmas present because Anthony is working his tail off. Rodney (00:32:51) - He is keeping people engaged and he seems like he enjoys doing it. So there you go. But yeah Anthony does that. Carlos helps with the books and the scripts and both of them kind of help back and forth with research and doing things. Rodney (00:33:04) - And I'm doing Jack Johnson right now for HBO. And Anthony has been, you know, invaluable as far as getting and getting research and, you know, little tidbits and anecdotes about Jack's life. And then on the other side, Carlos is helping with a couple of others. So it's always something to do. Karama (00:33:22) - Yeah. Carlos gets to the plane on time. Yes. That's awesome. Now, you were on Tananarive Due and Stephen Barnes podcast not too long ago, right? For your life. Love them. Friends of the show. They've been here also horror aficionados as well. Um, but I was surprised when you were talking a little bit about some of the imposter syndrome that you have battled in the past. I shouldn't say surprised because I guess everybody goes through it. My question is, do you still have that? Do you still have these moments? Oh, yeah. How do you how do you get past you who have like, Emmy winning shows and Eisner nominated comic books? How do you get past imposter syndrome? Rodney (00:34:04) - I keep going, I remember one time I've never really used drugs before, but there was this time where they had to give me a I had some type of issue going on. Rodney (00:34:15) - They gave me a painkiller, and it was the first time I had anything hard. And my pain, it may be, understand the way painkillers work. The pain is still there, but it's like over here someplace. Karama (00:34:28) - That was Percocet. Okay, because no Dilaudid. Oh, it's a lot of. Rodney (00:34:32) - A lot of the. Karama (00:34:33) - Same thing I had. I had the same thing. And I said, oh, this is a problem because I get it now. Yeah. Rodney (00:34:39) - Understood. Crackheads understood all of those people because it was almost like I could see my pain over there, and I didn't want it to come back. But it was this weird thing. And I look at imposter syndrome and insecurity. The first ten years of my career, massively plagued with insecurity around so many great, talented folks. And I, you know, trying to figure out a way to jump in and find some value. And even when I did something good, you know, you still can't see it for what it is because you're feeling what you're feeling. Rodney (00:35:16) - And insecurity has a weird way of creating a sense of its own unique narcissism of you're so worried that people are going to see you and the person that you think is inferior, that you kind of create a barrier between the beauty of creativity, the ability to work with others, the ability to be empathetic with the people around you because your whole focus is just your fear, and it paralyzes you in a way. And so for me, right around 2010, 2011, the bottom kind of fell out of my career for a relatively short period of time. I got really, really sick, almost died, and sitting in a hospital room, I sort of made a decision that if I ever get a second chance. As to be back. I would handle it differently. And I'd start to work more from Shout out to DeVaughn Franklin. He came in and prayed for me and I was like, the prayer was so great. He should have saved that for the eulogy. But it was he really the message behind what he was saying was really? And Davon Franklin is the sexiest preacher on earth. Rodney (00:36:20) - He's like especially younger T.D. Jakes, you know, he just need some initials. Davon is cool, but if he could be DC like DC young Fly, but. Karama (00:36:28) - Yes, yes. Rodney (00:36:30) - And his the message within his prayer was about working from your heart, not necessarily from your head. All of this stuff is in my head. And what made me, whatever it is that I have that's good, that's connected to this industry comes from my heart. So if you can disconnect from your head just to get into it, and you'll begin to see things as they are, not necessarily how they feel. And that started to become sort of the the approach. And I started to do more work. If you look at my IMDb of my credits, you'll see A Tale of Two Careers. You'll see sitcoms, sitcom, sitcom. Then all of a sudden I start doing dramas and genre and all this other stuff and comic books and these things, and I just started to work more from a place of what do I really want to do? And what do I think I do best, more so than just taking a job and just saying yes, yes, yes. Rodney (00:37:25) - I love all of the work that I've done, and all of it was sort of a boot camp of sorts to teach me. But you don't realize that when you're in a place of fear, you don't realize the good thing that you're getting from being in the environments that you and you only see the parts that hurt or the parts that feel bad. So to answer your question in a long winded way, I still feel those things. I feel I still feel the impulses when I get a big gig. I just got a couple of really big gigs with iconic characters, and the first thing that pops in the head is you don't want to mess it up. I don't want to mess this up. I want this to be perfect. A it's not going to be perfect, be anything I've ever written. That was something that I'm proud of. A whole, near and dear was something that I went over 100 times and needed and just put myself into. If I do that with these things, there's a sense of confidence now that didn't exist before that all I have to do is have the psychological and emotional endurance to stay with it long enough that it'll turn out as I want it to be, how it's going to be received. Rodney (00:38:29) - You can't control it, you know. You can't control how people are going to take a thing and they see what you were trying to do. But more often than not, what I was intending gets through when I put in the requisite work. And that can only happen if I'm able to put whatever's in my head like that drug off to the side. Then it can come back and it will come back. Karama (00:38:50) - So it sounds like you, instead of fighting it, you acknowledge it, which is sort of like you're saying, go to your room. Yes, I will deal with you when I'm finished work today. Rodney (00:39:00) - Yes. In the beginning, the part that was the most painful was I wouldn't acknowledge it. I wore a mask. Yeah, I'm the coolest guy. And this is easy. And this is great. And inside you're dying. You know, inside you're like, you have to live with yourself. And it becomes almost torture because every day you have to go through that same process of wearing this mask in an environment where it's already hard enough, just as it is. Karama (00:39:28) - Exactly. And you're putting another barrier in front of yourself, another barrier. Rodney (00:39:32) - And as soon as you can take that mask off and take off whatever pretentiousness comes with it, and you're able to just operate from a place of truth and be willing to mess up, be willing to fall on your face. Be willing to not pitch a joke, to pitch a joke that doesn't work, or to fail. Once you see that that doesn't kill you, you know, then you're able to continuously. In football, it's like when a quarterback throws an interception, he doesn't quit and just walk off the field. You go back, there's another play. You keep playing. The game's not over yet. And it's the same thing with this to see. Karama (00:40:06) - That was your Ted talk right there. That that's your nugget. Rodney (00:40:09) - I just don't know if I could stand up for 45 minutes. You know, after a while, the guy give me a cheer like a blues singer, like to know. Karama (00:40:17) - How do you balance client work that licensed Mandalorian work and your personal work? Or is do you consider it all personal work now? Rodney (00:40:23) - Balance. Rodney (00:40:23) - Every morning when I wake up, there's about 100 emails. 30 of them are people yelling. Whoever's yelling the loudest and cussing the loudest is one that I addressed the most, the first. That's where you know. No, it really is. Every day there's a sense of chaos. You know, I get up as early as I possibly can and I start working and I try to. I can only do one at a time. Now, I used to be able to do three projects at a time and move my head around. Now it's like I do one right now. Philadelphia issue 33 I'm working on right now. And once that's finished, I will move to. I've got some pages on Luke Cage and then I owe. I have a Star Wars thing with some pages on, so it's a constant. It's a constant sense of always writing. Stephen King says you have homework for the rest of your life. Karama (00:41:17) - I can see that to be a working comic book writer, working artist, you have to it's volume. Rodney (00:41:23) - And you have to embrace that. It's like there are times when I get petulant about it. There are times when I just don't feel like doing this. And the part that's the professional says, regardless of how you feel, you show up and whether it's a holiday, whether it's something you really want to do outside and you want to go outside and play with your friends, you still sit down and you do the work. Karama (00:41:45) - Yeah. Well, I am so excited about the podcast, about Philadelphia, about spawn, about prints, about Alice Cooper, Richard Pryor, Richard Pryor, everybody, as well as these unnamed horror, this unnamed horror Star Wars show has me intrigued, so I can't wait to hear more about that. Rodney (00:42:05) - A lot of spooky stuff. You are so prepared because you were talking about 3 or 4 things. I'm like, how does she know that? Karama (00:42:11) - Homework. Rodney (00:42:11) - See, you know this one. So yeah, yeah, yeah, you are prepared. Kudos to you man. Karama (00:42:16) - But also thank you. Karama (00:42:17) - But also kudos to your newsletter. You know writer Anthony because he had he has he's keeping them coming a couple of times a week. Rodney (00:42:25) - Love for Anthony. Every once in a while they pop up. And I was like oh yeah it is another week. And then, you know, he reminds me of what I'm doing. I'm like, I'm doing that too. Oh man. Karama (00:42:33) - See, I got to get me an Anthony. I need to get somebody to write. You need a letter. So I mean it's not cheap. Rodney (00:42:37) - No, Anthony's not cheap. I know I could have an apartment. I could have another apartment or someplace by the beach without. If I just got rid of Anthony. Not that I can't, Anthony. I can't get. Karama (00:42:47) - Rid of it. You can't do that. Anthony is a man. Thank you so much for hanging out. Tell everybody where they can find you. Rodney (00:42:55) - At the Rodney Barnes on Twitter and Instagram. Instagram is the one that's the most fun though. Yes, where. Karama (00:43:03) - We X is a problem these days yeah I. Rodney (00:43:06) - Haven't yes. And I haven't figured out TikTok yet. You know I'm trying my kids like oh daddy's easy. All you gotta do is there's the dance and I'm like, I. Karama (00:43:14) - Don't know, you don't have to dance. We're going to have a conversation. You do great on TikTok. You ain't got to dance. Rodney (00:43:19) - Yeah. So I'm like that. That's it. I'll figure that out though. Karama (00:43:23) - Are you on blue Sky? Are you on Blue Skies? Rodney (00:43:25) - Yes, but I don't. I think I pressed it twice because you got threads. You got the blue sky, you got X, you got Instagram, you got Facebook and you got TikTok. And I'm. And you, I'm forgetting two. Karama (00:43:37) - And you've got 300 emails, so. Rodney (00:43:39) - And you got 300 with 30 people cussing me out at the same time. Karama (00:43:43) - Are you going to be doing any more conventions? And I'm kicking myself for not getting Blacula signed when I saw you, but I. Rodney (00:43:50) - Am doing Galaxy Con. Okay, December 1st two, the third in Columbus, Ohio. Okay, I'm doing the Louisiana Book Fair at LSU the week after next. I don't know exactly what the day is, but the week after next I'm doing that and I think that's it for this year. A whole lot of next year, though, it's 35 of them next year. Yeah. And then the podcast they're sending me to the monster conventions for the podcast. So I'll be doing the monster conventions, the cons and the book fairs. And I just never I live in the air. Karama (00:44:25) - Well, I'm glad we caught you before all that you did before I took off. Yes. Rodney (00:44:29) - Sucks on planes. 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October 23, 202346 min
The Changeling Chronicles: Victor LaValle on Adapting his hit horror novel to the screen
Just in time for the spooky season, Victor LaValle joins us on theblerdgurl podcast. Renowned for his novels “The Ballad of Black Tom,” and “Lone Women,” Victor’s creativity through horror also shines in his comics such as “Sabretooth: The Adversary,” “Victor Lavalle’s The Destroyer,” and “Eve,” with the latter two being adapted for the screen. We talk in depth about the adaptation of his award-winning novel, “The Changeling,” on Apple TV Plus . The series, enriched by standout performances from Lakeith Stanfield, Clark Backo, and Adina Porter, is a must watch . Lavalle also cites “Lovecraft Country” as one of his inspirations for the series. For those who recall Victor’s thought-provoking discussion about the legacy of “Candyman” on my “Pop Paranormal” podcast, this conversation is another gem. Please comment and subscribe! Original author Victor Lavalle was heavily involved in theApple TV+ adaptation of “The Changeling” LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! WATCH MY INTERVIEW WITH VICTOR LAVALLE ON YOUTUBE! SHOW NOTES Victor visits Pop Paranormal Fix your credit with SELF Sabretooth Comic Eve Comic Victor Lavalle’s Destroyer Comic Watch The Changeling Here
June 11, 202328 min
The Angry Black Girl and Her Monster
In this episode I speak with writer Director Bomani J. Story about his new film “The Angry Black Girl and Her Monster”. A new horror film out in theaters June 9 and headed to streaming service Shudder. The indie horror film is a remix of on Mary Shelley’s “Frankenstein” and follows a teenaged genius named Vicaria. Who, after her brother’s murder, decides she’s going to find a cure – for death. Now, I’m not going to lie, this is absolutely a horror movie about Black trauma. However, the bloodletting just for “trauma porn”, instead the entire film serves as a metaphor within the horror genre as a commentary on the effects of intergenerational trauma. BAFTA Award winning actress Laya DeLeon Hayes ( God of War: Ragnarok, The Equalizer ) is incredible in this film alongside Chad L. Coleman , ( The Walking Dead, From ) and Denzel Whitaker ( Black Panther ). There are some mild spoilers in this interview. So if you want to see it fresh, go watch the movie and then come back and check out this interview The Angry Black girl and Her Monster is out now in select theaters and headed to Shudder LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! Show Notes: Bomani Instagram Film Instagram Movie Website Fix your Credit with Self Pop Paranormal TBG Patreon Transcript Email Download New Tab 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:07 Karama so, Bomani, welcome. I'm so excited to talk to you about this film. 00:00:07:07 - 00:00:14:24 Karama And as all the little moments of horror that I like. But then there's also like an underlying theme, 00:00:14:24 - 00:00:24:18 Karama let's start with where this came from. What was the inspiration for this film and when did you find time to write this? 00:00:24:20 - 00:00:45:15 Bomani You know, I mean, starts starts with the literature, man. Like, I love the book. I'm a huge, huge fan of the book. And I just felt like they were leaving a lot of stuff from the book on the floor. And I wanted to not only do that, but also recapture the focus because a lot of people focus on the monster. 00:00:45:17 - 00:01:04:19 Bomani And I wanted to bring it back to, you know, the story is about Frankenstein, Rise and fall, you know, the mad scientist. So I wanted to bring that back. And on top of that, I wanted I grew up with two older sisters who, you know, mentored me my whole life, what I love and adore. And I use them as my muse for this. 00:01:04:19 - 00:01:08:15 Bomani So you mix all that and out comes this. 00:01:08:17 - 00:01:17:13 Karama So, okay, so I got two questions for you. Seven From that by book you mean Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, right? Because it's a bunch of Frankenstein that Oh, yeah. 00:01:17:15 - 00:01:18:21 Bomani Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. 00:01:18:21 - 00:01:40:11 Karama To make sure everybody else. And I don't know how your sisters feel, but I'm the oldest and my brothers are younger, and I don't know how I feel. If they wrote a movie about me chopping people up and trying to turn the neighborhood into monsters. So did you get along with your sister? 00:01:40:13 - 00:01:45:15 Bomani No, I got along with my sisters, you know, I mean, obviously as siblings. So, you know, there's going to be dust ups, but. 00:01:45:20 - 00:01:47:24 Karama It's going to be ill because. 00:01:48:01 - 00:01:48:24 Bomani Yeah, yeah. 00:01:49:00 - 00:01:52:11 Bomani But no, we we all love each other. We're Gucci. Yeah, that's. 00:01:52:12 - 00:01:53:24 Karama Actually, speaking to that, 00:01:53:24 - 00:02:00:22 Karama were there moments that you actually wrote things in the script for Vicaria to say they were like, pulled right out of your life? 00:02:00:24 - 00:02:06:20 Bomani Yes, absolutely. They're record right out of their mouths. You know, 00:02:06:20 - 00:02:07:00 Bomani some. 00:02:07:00 - 00:02:10:05 Bomani Of the parts are more like. 00:02:10:07 - 00:02:15:22 Bomani More obvious to them of just like, oh, I remember saying that, you know, But other. 00:02:15:22 - 00:02:17:06 Karama Parts are quite like that. 00:02:17:11 - 00:02:19:09 Bomani Yeah. I was like, yeah, well, one of them's. 00:02:19:09 - 00:02:21:09 Bomani Exactly what she said. 00:02:21:09 - 00:02:30:16 Bomani And then there are other moments where, you know, they they don't know. So it's like there's Easter eggs on top of Easter eggs for four people in here. 00:02:30:16 - 00:02:34:21 Bomani And even for my sisters, you know, specifically for them, 00:02:34:21 - 00:02:39:17 Bomani don't tell them, like you just have to watch it again. And then you can you can see it for yourself. 00:02:39:17 - 00:02:57:24 Karama well, I'm thinking of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. I'm thinking of Victor Frankenstein being been very wealthy. You know, I come from a wealthy family, just wants to experiment and it sort of feels guilty for what he's done later. But Victoria is not wealthy. Her her. She's a different kind of relationship with death. 00:02:58:05 - 00:03:00:15 Karama Can you go into that a little bit? 00:03:00:17 - 00:03:14:17 Bomani No. Yeah. I mean, I just always kind of saw it as like she was someone who was going to put this together. Like I wanted her to be an actual an actual genius, an actual inventor. 00:03:14:17 - 00:03:22:11 Bomani I never saw it as someone who, like, how many multibillionaires are actually just like, inventing things. 00:03:22:13 - 00:03:34:06 Bomani You know, to me it's just like, hey, there are you know, there might be some. But as far as my knowledge of the people I like, you know, it's just like they're they're genius comes from being able to, like, invest in pay off. Like, you know, it's like, exactly. 00:03:34:08 - 00:03:38:00 Karama You know, those Easter eggs. You have a couple in there about Edison. I was like. 00:03:38:02 - 00:03:40:01 Bomani Yes, I. 00:03:40:01 - 00:03:48:16 Karama Feel I feel the same way kind of about Bill Gates. I'm like, did he really invent all the things? Yeah. Did he just pay for all the places where all the low income people invented that? 00:03:48:19 - 00:03:54:20 Bomani Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just like the people who are actually, like, building a chair is a carpenter. 00:03:54:22 - 00:03:56:05 Bomani Right? Not a. 00:03:56:05 - 00:04:19:19 Bomani Business owner. It's a carpenter. Right. And so to me, she, like, she needed to put this together. So to me she need to have all these elements, right? So it was important to me for it to look like, you know, she scavenged these things. But like, you can't stop the spark, you know? I mean, the first car looks nothing like what it looks like today, but it was put together a certain way, you know, with the means that they had. 00:04:19:21 - 00:04:32:24 Bomani So to me, that's like that was really important to me to kind of capture how her and genius works. Because to me, that's what that's the element of genius that I feel like people forget like of where it's coming from. 00:04:33:01 - 00:04:53:04 Karama Yeah, no, absolutely. And she is a genius. And you show her actually in her something. How sectors relate to being the only black girl in the all white class. Oh, my God. All right. We had all kinds of buttons. But is but that that feeling of otherness and that feeling of being foreign and you are a monster to them because they don't understand you. 00:04:53:09 - 00:04:55:02 Karama And don't be a smart black girl. 00:04:55:04 - 00:04:58:17 Bomani Oh, it hurts my sisters. 00:04:58:17 - 00:05:00:21 Karama Did your sisters help you with some of those lines, too? 00:05:01:01 - 00:05:02:03 Bomani Oh. 00:05:02:05 - 00:05:05:14 Bomani I mean, that scene in the school is directly what happened to one of my sisters. 00:05:05:15 - 00:05:06:13 Bomani Oh, wow. 00:05:06:14 - 00:05:28:22 Bomani Yeah. You know, it's like it's kind of a it's a legendary story around our dinner table, you know, that, like, keeps comes up every once in a while. It's like a greatest hits, you know? So. Yeah, no, like, um, as I said, it was like I was, I was musing after them and, like, and they thought when stuff would happen, they would think maybe I wasn't listening, but I'm always listening. 00:05:28:24 - 00:05:32:00 Karama The younger brothers are always, listen, you got to be careful what you say in front of them. 00:05:32:02 - 00:05:32:09 Bomani Yeah. 00:05:32:14 - 00:05:34:17 Karama My younger brothers are twins. I had it. 00:05:34:19 - 00:05:36:21 Bomani Worse. 00:05:36:23 - 00:05:43:13 Karama They they still kicking my ass. So I just want to corroborate something. This is your first. 00:05:43:13 - 00:05:46:05 Bomani So your first? 00:05:46:07 - 00:05:47:01 Bomani Yeah. 00:05:47:03 - 00:05:54:23 Karama I'm just checking because I'm just going to run off the cast a little bit. Leah Gillette, Jillian Hayes and Hayes. 00:05:54:23 - 00:05:55:11 Bomani You? 00:05:55:13 - 00:06:12:18 Karama Denzel Whitaker. Chad Coleman. Okay, so we got some heavy hitters here for your first time out of the gate. How does that feel when you saw the cast list, when you saw the cast accepting these roles? 00:06:12:20 - 00:06:42:16 Bomani Man, it just made me feel like I was like, wow, Like they're responding, right? Like they they're enjoying this stuff. Right? And like, that was that was phenomenal to me. Like, it just felt so gratifying, you know, throughout this filmmaking process. Like, it's it's a tough thing to get a film off the ground and get it made. But like every there's certain moments that that pay off, you know, whether it's the first time, you know, the producers coming in like, oh, we actually are interested and think we can make this happen, you know? 00:06:42:16 - 00:06:52:02 Bomani And it's just like, Oh, awesome. Like, and then cast, you know, when someone like reads for and then they're like, No, I actually want this part and then they sign on. You're just like, 00:06:52:02 - 00:06:58:10 Bomani Like, you know, it's just like, it's like a payoff of just like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, gratification. 00:06:58:10 - 00:06:59:20 Bomani But what? Like an. 00:06:59:22 - 00:07:08:23 Karama Occasion? I mean, they are basically signing off on your work. Yeah. The story is you do? Yeah. That must be very validating. 00:07:09:00 - 00:07:17:15 Bomani Yeah. No, it was. That's the. The word I was looking for. Validation. Yeah. It's like it just validates your thoughts because along for a long time it's just you and the script. 00:07:17:15 - 00:07:24:12 Karama you're, you know, to start hearing that table read, did you let the actors improv a little bit? Did they bring other things to the characters? 00:07:24:14 - 00:07:45:03 Bomani Of course. I mean, honestly, the whole crew and the actors. I told them as soon as we got to Charlotte when we were filming, I just let everybody know. I was like, Look, if we capture exactly what's on the script and we have failed, you know, so we need to I was like, This is our blueprint. And that's not to say that you should just throw the script away. 00:07:45:03 - 00:07:48:11 Bomani And that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, is that, for instance, 00:07:48:11 - 00:08:02:15 Bomani When you watch The Shining and you separate Jack Nicholson from that role, you know, you separating a lot, right? Like, you know, it's just like, I can't say that you see that on the page of Jack Nicholson's character, you know? 00:08:02:15 - 00:08:24:13 Bomani So to me, like, that's what that's what we all need to be trying to achieve. I'm not saying we need to all be as good as Jack Nicholson said We need to be achieving to elevate the script as much as we can to bring that script to life, you know? So that was just my approach. So they of course, there were lines that they, you know, improved and did stuff like, you know, 00:08:24:13 - 00:08:38:08 Bomani Aisha and Jada, you know, like, and Riley and Amani who play those roles. There was a lot of stuff that they improved. And did, you know, a whole alphabet scene of her saying the letters? That's her. And she made that like, yeah, So. 00:08:38:08 - 00:08:42:05 Karama Wow, that's that's actually incredible. What were there other moments in there that you were like, 00:08:42:05 - 00:08:44:03 Karama Please tell me we got that. 00:08:44:03 - 00:08:50:03 Bomani Yeah. No, I mean, you know, not a spoiler alert. I hope you put that in, like, the kind, you know, like. 00:08:50:03 - 00:08:52:14 Bomani Like for not, like, years, but, like. 00:08:52:16 - 00:08:53:08 Karama Spoiler. 00:08:53:08 - 00:09:12:03 Bomani I like spoilers, but, you know, during that dinner table scene, when he runs rampant with that, you know, with racket busters or whatever it was, I think like in the script it was just one. But once he connects it to the whole family, like that was them just being all the actors, being in the moment and, and wanting to go with it. 00:09:12:05 - 00:09:47:17 Bomani I like they, they brought such incredible stuff to this movie and like, I always try to leave myself open for that kind of stuff, you know, because a lot of beauty happens, you know, it's just like there's certain things in the script that you just, you know, you're just not going to be able to get, you know, said or you can't see like something as small as during the teacher scene, starting with the Conference of Victoria, just like smirking at the teacher as like kind of like a Q you know, to me and like. 00:09:47:19 - 00:09:48:06 Bomani You know, was like. 00:09:48:11 - 00:09:55:09 Karama Because she knows she's smarter than her and for her to function like, how are you teaching me like that. Yeah. I got from, you know. 00:09:55:15 - 00:09:56:03 Bomani Yeah. 00:09:56:03 - 00:09:56:17 Karama Now 00:09:56:17 - 00:10:05:12 Karama tell me about funny moments on the scene because I heard a rumor that Leah has an aversion to blood like that. 00:10:05:14 - 00:10:09:24 Bomani How did that work? 00:10:10:01 - 00:10:10:18 Bomani You know, 00:10:10:18 - 00:10:18:24 Bomani she taught me something really profoundly valuable during that moment of the art of collaboration with somebody. 00:10:18:24 - 00:10:19:24 Bomani Because 00:10:19:24 - 00:10:24:21 Bomani during her, you know, softball, I was just like, you know, gory moments, You know, the ones I'm talking about. 00:10:24:23 - 00:10:25:15 Bomani Yeah. 00:10:25:17 - 00:10:29:21 Karama You know, this is a horror movie. Yeah. I've got to tell you. 00:10:29:24 - 00:10:32:24 Bomani Yeah, yeah. Blood. Yeah. But the particular moment. 00:10:32:24 - 00:10:56:10 Bomani I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. You know, she, you know, I was those moments are very exciting for me. For her, she's, like, squeamish and not necessarily into that kind of thing. And in any other circumstance, usually people will just be like, they'll reject it, you know, like, I don't want to do this. And you know what I mean? 00:10:56:10 - 00:11:21:09 Bomani And it's like, which is your right, you know, to to be like that. But for Leah, she saw how much I was into it, and she was like, well, listen, this isn't necessarily my thing, but I like how much you're into this and I'm going to back you, right? Like, I was like, I may not understand it, but I believe what you're doing here. 00:11:21:11 - 00:11:24:15 Bomani And I was like, so and so she just dived in, right? 00:11:24:15 - 00:11:28:18 Bomani like even if I don't understand necessarily what's going on, 00:11:28:18 - 00:11:35:02 Bomani like you're having such like it, like it's sobering, so much joy to, you know, like I'm, yeah, I am with you on it, you know? 00:11:35:02 - 00:11:39:11 Bomani So instead of rejecting, she just doubled down and went in, which. 00:11:39:11 - 00:11:46:07 Karama Was a testament to her as an actress to yes like yeah, when I heard that I was like but that saying though. 00:11:46:12 - 00:11:49:01 Bomani Yeah. Yeah. 00:11:49:01 - 00:11:52:10 Karama I would never have known. Look at that. Yeah. 00:11:52:10 - 00:12:07:20 Karama Let's talk about seems a little bit she looks at death as a disease, but her entire life has been sort of filled with these violent moments of people taken too soon. 00:12:07:22 - 00:12:18:05 Karama And she looks at, you know, gun violence, drugs, things like that, as all the same disease of death. Is it that 00:12:18:05 - 00:12:28:22 Karama she misunderstands life or that just life has not been kind to her and that's why she sort of stunted their. 00:12:28:24 - 00:12:35:10 Bomani I think the car is a very I think she's obviously very smart. But I also think 00:12:35:10 - 00:13:05:05 Bomani I mean, she has her flaws and I think she has her blind spots, which I think is shown in that dinner scene in the event that they have. I think that's definitely a blind spot for her, you know, and I don't think she acknowledges other elements that might be going on, which is, I think, one of the fatal flaws of just pure ambition and tunnel vision is you might not see things outside of that, you know. 00:13:05:07 - 00:13:14:04 Bomani So to me, I think she's working through her. She's working through her grief, through her science 00:13:14:04 - 00:13:27:22 Bomani I think, like I said, she has some blank spots because she's so tunnel visioned on on this and hasn't had a chance to really let all these things out that she's that she's experiencing. 00:13:27:22 - 00:13:48:16 Karama I just keep thinking of Tananarive Due said this I think in Black horror said many times black trauma is black horror that sometimes that's part of our life. Yeah. And so we deal with trauma. You know, very differently. And when I look at for career, I kind of I kind of see that. 00:13:48:18 - 00:14:01:15 Karama But then there are also shades of other things. Know there's the shades of Tamir Rice, there's shades of other real life things that have happened, you know, in this past decade. Yeah. 00:14:01:15 - 00:14:04:01 Karama How did you navigate that in the script? 00:14:04:01 - 00:14:36:14 Bomani I mean, it's like, you know, dealing with black trauma and stuff like that in movies. Like I, I hear the criticism of why people, you know, are just like, I don't want to see that stuff. You know? You know, it's like and I think there's but to me, in order to I don't want to put my head in the sand for one, you know, I don't think just, you know, completely rejecting it is or and not doing it whatsoever is the is the it's a way you know, it's the only way. 00:14:36:16 - 00:14:45:08 Bomani Right. And I don't know, for me just always trying to stay true to the humanity of the characters 00:14:45:08 - 00:14:59:09 Bomani is always going to be my my way because I think that that's just the fundamentals of great not only storytelling, but also respecting, you know, your audience's wishes. Right? Like, like. 00:14:59:11 - 00:15:03:21 Karama But it's that's just that also, I think some trauma, like there's no way out but through. 00:15:04:02 - 00:15:04:12 Bomani Sure. 00:15:04:17 - 00:15:17:09 Karama And you said she's she's grieving. Yeah one of the one of the stages of grief is anger. Yeah. And I must say she's got a little bit of anger attached. 00:15:17:14 - 00:15:18:21 Bomani Yeah. You know. 00:15:18:23 - 00:15:46:01 Karama Like, I wanted the thing I wanted for recovery was therapy. Yeah. And I just, like, I need baby girl to lay on a couch. But she didn't. She did an amazing job. Yeah. Let's also talk about the. The metaphor of the monster. Kristen. Yeah, I it's not lost on me that not just the way he died, and that's not a spoiler, you know? 00:15:46:03 - 00:16:04:22 Karama This is a monster, and he's dead. The movie is. Yeah, but he there is a moment where he, as a black man in a hoodie, is lying there saying, Am I the monster? And that is so layered. 00:16:04:24 - 00:16:05:15 Bomani Yeah. 00:16:05:17 - 00:16:15:11 Karama I'm curious. When you wrote that line, was that did you write that early on and try and build a story around it, or did you did you naturally end up there? 00:16:15:13 - 00:16:17:13 Bomani Yeah. I mean. 00:16:17:15 - 00:16:25:08 Bomani I it was one of the during it was one of the last things that came, you know, because 00:16:25:08 - 00:16:42:20 Bomani similar to like the title of the movie, like it wasn't what I started with, you know, it's like it's kind of where I what came out and I'm realizing about my process as I learned, you know, about how I do things like I like to get the bulk of it down, like the story, the characters and like going through it. 00:16:42:20 - 00:16:46:00 Bomani And then you fall on these moments of just 00:16:46:00 - 00:17:13:02 Bomani realization and truth. Where's someone where you can kind of distill it into one moment, right? And I think that is like, that's how it kind of came apart, you know, such as when I was writing. And then just like the innocence and the confusion of of this man, you know, and the question, you know, it's like, you know, obviously does back to who called him a monster, right? 00:17:13:02 - 00:17:18:03 Bomani to me at least the most horrific theme for this movie, I think, is just 00:17:18:03 - 00:17:22:05 Bomani people believing what someone else tells them about themselves. 00:17:22:07 - 00:17:22:21 Bomani Right. 00:17:22:21 - 00:17:41:17 Bomani something as simple as you just saying mid-stream like you're stupid, right? If you believe that you don't have enough. So confidence or whatever it might be to defend yourself for that, but you believe it, it's like it will change the trajectory of your life. You no longer think like, Oh, well, if I'm stupid, I can't really get into college. 00:17:41:17 - 00:17:51:00 Bomani So what's the point of applying? Applying, right. I'll leave this to other people, you know, I mean, it's just like you start doing that stuff. So and I think that's very horrifying. 00:17:51:02 - 00:17:53:19 Karama That is that is the true horror 00:17:53:19 - 00:18:06:10 Karama I know. You mentioned, obviously, the inspiration of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, but I have a feeling that you may have watched the Re-Animator a couple times. 00:18:06:12 - 00:18:10:09 Bomani Because am. 00:18:10:10 - 00:18:14:24 Karama I like that or have you seen that movie? 00:18:15:01 - 00:18:21:07 Bomani I I've definitely seen Re-Animator I have seen Re-Animator. Yeah. 00:18:21:09 - 00:18:30:08 Karama Because there's a little bit of Herbert of Herbert West in this. I'm not going to give away why I think that is, but I was like, Yeah, I can see it. 00:18:30:10 - 00:18:31:15 Bomani Yeah. 00:18:31:17 - 00:18:42:16 Karama Are there other films and other moments or other? It doesn't even have to be film books or TV or anything else like that that inspired some of the moments in this film. 00:18:42:18 - 00:18:43:05 Bomani Yeah, 00:18:43:05 - 00:19:00:03 Bomani there's a bunch of nods and you know, Big one will be Aronofsky's the Fountain, you know, He says, Death is in there. And like, I love that movie. So this was my almost Aronofsky's The Fountain. And you know, there's a lot of stuff you I was like, I'll give one more. 00:19:00:03 - 00:19:12:24 Bomani That's like, it's not obscure, but like, I don't think you'll find it if you're not looking for it. And it's from menace to society. When he says, You know, you're fucked up right? 00:19:13:01 - 00:19:15:20 Bomani Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, that's good though. 00:19:16:21 - 00:19:24:02 Bomani Yeah, there's a lot in here that like, you know, that I felt like only I would see. But other people have called me on it and I'm like, Oh, you're pretty good. 00:19:24:02 - 00:19:25:02 Bomani You know this. 00:19:25:06 - 00:19:32:02 Karama It's going to be fun for you when this drops, you know, world wide for you to hear all of those little. I see this. I see that. 00:19:32:06 - 00:19:33:16 Bomani Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:19:33:16 - 00:19:39:01 Karama you've mentioned one of the themes that is that people should not believe everything that 00:19:39:01 - 00:19:40:04 Karama people always tell them 00:19:40:04 - 00:19:49:20 Karama what is another theme that you would say even for Victoria, for black women that you would say is coming out of this film? 00:19:49:22 - 00:19:55:00 Bomani You know, I don't want to spend too much time kind of like telling people how. 00:19:55:00 - 00:20:02:16 Bomani What they should be taken from it in us. Like because it's a it's an emotional journey, you know, And I think that like, 00:20:02:16 - 00:20:06:03 Bomani you know, I think black men are smart enough to. 00:20:06:05 - 00:20:08:09 Bomani The camps are all those things I need to it's not a. 00:20:08:09 - 00:20:11:06 Karama Gotcha. I'm that's No, no, no. I know I'm wrong. 00:20:11:08 - 00:20:12:24 Bomani I know. I know. But it's just like. 00:20:13:05 - 00:20:43:19 Bomani I treasure the the relation ship between a movie and its audience because you walk away with certain things that are yours. And like, sometimes like a filmmaker, like myself or whatever, will give things away in a kind of, you know, dispels like, then it's no longer yours to have anymore. And I want to make sure I treasure that, you know, it's like I have my, my thoughts about Victoria's character and things of that nature. 00:20:43:19 - 00:21:07:23 Bomani But as far as like takeaways, I really I'm really hoping that audiences will walk away with with some kind of engagement and thoughts, you know, about what it means. And, you know, her decisions even down to, you know, without spoilers, just like her decision of what she does at the end of the movie, you know, and what it is for for for black women as a culture and us as a culture. 00:21:07:23 - 00:21:14:08 Bomani On her decisions to do that, you know, So it's like I think that there's a lot there to be explored. 00:21:14:10 - 00:21:15:09 Bomani That's my problem. 00:21:15:11 - 00:21:19:06 Karama No, no, that's very smart. You it's funny, I think of, you know, the singer SEAL. 00:21:19:08 - 00:21:19:21 Bomani Mm hmm. 00:21:19:23 - 00:21:33:15 Karama Years ago, he said he's never, ever put liner notes in any of his albums. Mm hmm. Like, other people have done it, But he's never done it because he said whatever you heard when you first started, the song is what the song is. I don't want to tell. 00:21:33:18 - 00:21:35:09 Bomani You. 00:21:35:11 - 00:21:41:04 Karama What that words should have been. Yeah. So if you thought he said kiss on the nose, that's what you heard. 00:21:41:06 - 00:21:42:15 Bomani Yeah, I guess. You know. 00:21:42:17 - 00:21:45:04 Karama That's just too hard. That's your. That's your. 00:21:45:04 - 00:21:47:06 Bomani Moment. Yeah. Yeah, I. 00:21:47:06 - 00:21:54:03 Karama Think. I think that's. I think that's brilliant. Speaking of that end scene, are you looking to do a follow. 00:21:54:03 - 00:21:55:19 Bomani Up movie ever? 00:21:55:21 - 00:22:00:24 Karama And how long would that title be? 00:22:01:01 - 00:22:05:21 Bomani You know, there's a couple of things that's that's always going to be a mixture of a bunch of things of whether 00:22:05:21 - 00:22:06:15 Bomani for one, 00:22:06:15 - 00:22:20:04 Bomani if I feel the story is there, you know, if we feel the story is there, and if speaking to us, we feel like there's more to go, you know, And then of course, you know, and then on top of that, if people show up on June 9th. 00:22:20:06 - 00:22:22:02 Bomani In theaters to see the movie. 00:22:22:07 - 00:22:40:08 Bomani And there's a demand for that, you know, then then I think, you know, it's just like, you know, we can always see. But to me, it always starts with, is there more to say? You know, I do like endings like that. One of my heroes is Billy Wilder, and a lot of his movies end with these crazy moments. 00:22:40:08 - 00:22:59:18 Bomani You know, I always think of some Like It Hot, where he's like, Nobody's perfect, you know, And they ride off into the sunset. It's just like, you know, of course, there could be a sequel to that. But does there need to be writers? It's like it's a fun, open way to engage with the fans and keep your brain going, you know, for after the movie. 00:22:59:20 - 00:23:03:01 Bomani But yeah, that's my long way of around. 00:23:03:01 - 00:23:07:00 Karama That of not answering that question. I love that, though. I love that you get a great 00:23:07:00 - 00:23:27:23 Karama Definitely, definitely. Go check out every black girl and her monster subtitled, Listen to Black Women. Yeah, And I. I'm so excited that I got a chance to talk to my niece. This is an actual I honestly see this like winning more awards and stuff. I want you get all the money because I really need to know what happens next. 00:23:27:23 - 00:23:32:20 Karama I have a need. And when you do that, when you have to come back on. And so we can. 00:23:32:22 - 00:23:35:23 Bomani We can discuss. 00:23:36:00 - 00:23:51:04 Bomani No, man, please. Like you want to see that. Then let's drive the audiences to the theaters to see this movie. You know what I mean? Like, let's get them there June 9th and honestly, it was a it was a pleasure to be on here with you, man. You you do your business. You do your business. 00:23:51:06 - 00:23:53:24 Karama Thank you very, very much. I appreciate it. Scroll back to top Sign up to receive email updates Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast. powered by
May 19, 202352 min
AI vs IP: Lawyer Wynton Yates weighs in
A.I. is everywhere, and although it can be used as a creative tool, what’s making the headlines is how generative AI tools like midjourney and ElevenLabs ca mimc everything from fake everything from a picture of the Pope to an entire Frank Ocean album. In In this episode, I’m joined by entertainment and social media lawyer Wynton Yates as we discuss intellectual property, the media and the legal and ethical issues surrounding AI-generated content. We cover topics such as contracts, ownership, copyright, and the potential dangers of generative AI being used for malicious purposes. We also discuss the challenges of developing a system that protects everyone’s rights and gives them an equal voice. (Even how an actual monkey is helping redefine IP!) Be prepared to take notes! Wynton drops some serious knowledge in this one. Wynton Yates regularly breaks down legal terms for content creators on Tiktok @lawyerwynton #fanart and #fanfiction is awesome! Just stay safe out there y’all #lawyerwynton #tiktokattorney #copyrightattorney ♬ Blade Runner 2049 – Synthwave Goose Wynton sharing his knowledge (for entertainment purposes) on Tiktok LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! Show Notes: Follow Wynton Yates TBG Podcast Media Kit Templates Pop Paranormal TBG Patreon Transcript Email Download New Tab 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:24 Karama Hey, folks, welcome back to THEBLERDGURL PODCAST. I'm Karama horne a.k.a. “theblerdgurl” And today we're going to talk about intellectual property. 00:00:07:23 - 00:00:13:01 Karama Everybody right now is talking about creative ownership and intellectual property. 00:00:13:00 - 00:00:25:22 Karama from the Writers Strike and their request for residual rights on streaming content to the air creators out here, reproducing music in the likeness of artists like Frank Ocean and Drake and even the weekend. 00:00:25:23 - 00:00:29:22 Karama Well, today I'm talking to a real entertainment lawyer about all this. 00:00:29:22 - 00:00:34:12 Karama Wynton Yates joins me today and he's going to give us details on how creators can protect themselves. 00:00:34:13 - 00:00:45:07 Karama we talked about so much stuff today, but the discussion about I think is the most important, especially coming from an intellectual property entertainment lawyer. 00:00:45:07 - 00:00:50:03 Karama I can't wait to share this one with you. But first, let's pay some bills. 00:00:50:03 - 00:01:02:16 Karama Now, I first found Wynton over on Tik-tok because he's got this incredible channel where he regularly looks at litigation that's happening in entertainment and like breaks it down in layman's terms for the rest of us. 00:01:02:17 - 00:01:07:10 Karama Yates now has a thriving practice, as get this, a social media lawyer. 00:01:07:09 - 00:01:10:20 Karama He's representing a lot of people out there doing exactly what we do. 00:01:10:20 - 00:01:14:17 Karama So up next, my chat with entertainment lawyer Winton Yates. 00:01:14:17 - 00:01:24:19 Wynton right before we started this podcast, something new kind of clicked. My name is Wynton, and I'm named after the jazz artists Wynton Marsalis. 00:01:24:19 - 00:01:25:24 Karama Wynton Marsalis Oh wow! 00:01:26:01 - 00:01:48:05 Wynton So I didn't even just kind of collect that. Like entertainment Arts has been me since I was born because I was born with, you know, an entertainer's name. But then after that, you know, growing up at the age of two, my siblings and I started doing commercials and catalog shoots and movies and all that kind of stuff. I really loved that growing up. 00:01:48:05 - 00:01:59:09 Wynton And then my best friends and I were doing photography and shooting short films and all kinds of stuff. And then when I did, you know, undergrad, I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia. 00:01:59:15 - 00:02:02:04 Karama Oh, okay. So yes, you were in the Mecca. 00:02:02:06 - 00:02:20:07 Wynton Yeah. So we were we were all over the place, just, you know, sneak it into concerts and shoot and concert photography and short films and all kinds of stuff. And then after, you know, after high school ended up going to undergrad at Georgia Southern. And then while I was there, I actually thought I was going to grow up to be a large animal vet. 00:02:20:07 - 00:02:23:01 Wynton I really wanted to be like the black Steve Irwin. 00:02:23:03 - 00:02:24:13 Karama Oh my God. 00:02:24:18 - 00:02:55:20 Wynton But I couldn't pass chemistry. So I actually ended up in the communications department, and the staff over there fell in love with me and they just like handed me a camera and they were like, No, no, no, this is what you're going to do. So I went through that program and then came out and ended up being a television news reporter for several years until, you know, my most recent contract a few years ago came up and I was like, okay, I think it's time for me to go to law school because I always wanted to advocate for my friends who were all 00:02:55:20 - 00:02:56:11 Wynton creators. 00:02:56:11 - 00:03:12:11 Wynton In some respect. I just didn't know how I wanted to do that. And then while I was a television news reporter, I actually met an entertainment attorney and it clicked and I was like, That's what I've been looking for. And then that's kind of how I ended up in that path. 00:03:12:11 - 00:03:30:07 Karama But you also have carried over some of that acting and that entertainment and personality from all the media stuff that you've done, because honestly, you're probably the most media ready lawyer I've ever met, and I'm here for the tie 00:03:30:07 - 00:03:31:08 Karama pin 00:03:31:12 - 00:03:52:06 Wynton Oh, my lapel pins? Thanks. Yes. Yes. I love my lapel pins. When I meet other attorneys, they all they're very buttoned up and put together. And I'm like, no, I have like mandalorian pens and like Bob Burgers pens. And it's always a very good opener. It makes it softens people. When you meet them, especially if you have the title of an attorney. 00:03:52:08 - 00:04:21:04 Wynton Mm hmm. Which I work very hard. Not for that. Not to be my whole personality. Like, Oh, I'm an attorney. So it's a really good way to, like, soften people and have a good entry point because arts and entertainment and TV and movies is something that we all share. Mm hmm. We may not all like the same things, but we all like something, whether it's music, TV, movies, there's some kind of arts and entertainment that we enjoy. 00:04:21:06 - 00:04:36:21 Wynton So lapel pins is a really easy way for me to kind of figure out who likes what. And it's fun. Like, I meet some attorneys who you would think are not Star Wars fans at all, and they'll see my pain and be like, Is that is that passive bizarre? 00:04:36:23 - 00:04:39:13 Karama Oh, that's right. This is the way. 00:04:39:17 - 00:04:44:18 Wynton And then the whole conversation shifts and it's it's fantastic. It's great. 00:04:44:20 - 00:05:10:21 Karama That is that is amazing. And also, like you said, if somebody in a because most people, if they're finding themselves in court, are probably stressed. So no matter what it is, you're not doing like murder trials. But still it can be stressful situations. So definitely there is definitely a way to. It's an icebreaker. Yes. So one of the things that actually you introduced me to because I didn't know this was that social media law is a thing. 00:05:10:23 - 00:05:18:20 Karama Yeah. So can you explain a little bit about that concept? And like, can some of these TikTok dancers do? Like what? 00:05:18:22 - 00:05:49:10 Wynton What can they do? Yeah, actually, specifically with TikTok dances, Tik Tok is actually at the forefront when it comes to copyright and dancing. So we could talk about that in a minute. But like so social media law really falls under the umbrella of just like the broad title of entertainment law. It's such a broad title because it covers everything contract negotiations, brand deals, intellectual property, which is copyright, trademark patents. 00:05:49:16 - 00:06:29:12 Wynton We're talking about artificial intelligence, which is like this new space that we now have to figure out how we're talking about licensing, whether it's movie licensing is trademark licenses, copyright licenses, music licenses. It covers such like a wide swath of things. But when we're talking about social media and social media influencers, they have specific needs that attorneys that aren't necessarily intellectual property attorneys, they're entertainment attorneys like myself are now figuring out that, okay, these social media influencers are not just, you know, doing dances on Tik Tok and making YouTube videos and all this kind of stuff. 00:06:29:12 - 00:06:32:20 Wynton This is their livelihood. And they're making users correct. 00:06:32:24 - 00:06:36:03 Karama They're writing, they're directing, they're creating. 00:06:36:03 - 00:07:04:19 Wynton Exactly. And then they're also having to deal with contracts and negotiating with brands for brand deals. And they're also having having to protect their copyright and their trademark. So they have to keep their brand protected and they have to deal with licensing and all that stuff. So it is entertainment law, but it is really focused on the needs of social media influencers. 00:07:04:19 - 00:07:12:00 Karama are you on retainer with any of these TikTok creatives or can you not share your I guess. 00:07:12:02 - 00:07:19:15 Wynton I can't necessarily tell you exactly who, but I would say the majority of my clients are social media influencers, and I can tell you that 00:07:19:15 - 00:07:36:10 Wynton probably all of my clients come from directly from being on social media. So I don't do like commercial television commercials or billboards or anything like that. I specifically exist in the place where my clients are, which is social media. 00:07:36:12 - 00:07:55:21 Karama Yeah. Okay, so let's break down a little bit of some of these things that you're talking about. So you talked about licensing that makes sense. Obviously, appearances and likeness and things like terms like in perpetuity. Kids remember that term and I hate to it. Yeah. You do not want that in a contract. 00:07:55:21 - 00:07:57:13 Wynton No, never. 00:07:57:15 - 00:08:17:13 Karama And and I can't get into all the details of this but I did I did get into something where and if you were in my state but I know you're a licensed in New Orleans, I would use you. But I did actually have to call a lawyer to help with a contract situation because someone was I had no problem with the work. 00:08:17:13 - 00:08:46:08 Karama They were asking for. But then in the fine print of the contracts were was wording like in perpetuity and ownership of my likeness and what the Blur girl was supposed to do. And I was like, Nice try. They're girls trademarks. You can't. Yes, anything in this house is me. Yes. You know. And they were like it was very clear that they were not used to talking to people who either had a lawyer speaking for them or being somebody who even knew how to advocate for themselves. 00:08:46:08 - 00:09:05:23 Karama And I think that's part of the problem. So let's shed a little light on that. Like if somebody reaches out and says, I would like you to sell my product. Mm hmm. On, you know, whether or not that's usually generated. Well, user generated content usually means you are giving up your image for a short period of time, I'm assuming. 00:09:06:00 - 00:09:35:02 Wynton Yeah. Those are usually called work for hire situations. I got to clarify real quick. I'm licensed in Louisiana, but because of the nature of entertainment, law and intellectual property, I actually have clients all over the country. Oh, okay. Yeah. Intellectual property is federal law, so it is the same across the board for all states. So if I do have to go to court, I'm practicing in federal court, which is all the states I can actually practice with clients pretty much anywhere. 00:09:35:02 - 00:09:51:06 Wynton But if I have to go to state court somewhere, I can actually partner with attorneys in that specific state so that they can do all the court stuff in in and I can continue working with the with the client. But when it comes to 00:09:51:06 - 00:09:53:12 Wynton that, it is a 00:09:53:12 - 00:10:03:05 Wynton work for hire. Yes. So work for hire is you are going in with a written contract with the understanding that any of the content that you are creating, you are retaining no rights to it. 00:10:03:07 - 00:10:08:20 Wynton Like you go in understanding that and the only way you can do work for hire is if it's in writing. It can't just be like, Hey, 00:10:08:20 - 00:10:10:17 Wynton you want to do a work for hire thing for me real quick? 00:10:10:17 - 00:10:14:03 Wynton It can't be a verbal contract. It's got to be written out. 00:10:14:03 - 00:10:27:02 Karama if they don't send you a PDF, but if someone says sends you an email outlining the the work that they want you to do and you agree to do that work via email, is that legally binding? 00:10:27:06 - 00:10:37:13 Wynton It could be. It depends. Like you're going to hear lots of attorneys always say it depends with an email. It depends. It could be. Does it? The question really is, does it fit the 00:10:37:13 - 00:10:45:22 Wynton legal language of what is a contract? So is there an offer? Is there acceptance? Is there? It has to fit, though. It has to fit in check certain boxes. 00:10:45:22 - 00:10:51:20 Wynton So if it checks those boxes, then yeah, it could be considered a contract. If it's in an email. 00:10:51:20 - 00:10:52:19 Karama You just mentioned that 00:10:52:19 - 00:11:05:23 Karama social media law is federal law, which means you could cover people all over the place, which is a great time to point out that therblerdgurl PATREON is wide open. So please donate so I can afford to work with Wynton. 00:11:05:23 - 00:11:15:21 Karama What about the music that gets copied in reused and remixed on platforms that were made for that? Like Tik Tok? Like, how does that work? 00:11:15:23 - 00:11:40:13 Wynton Yeah. So with platforms specifically, they have licenses, licensing deals with the distributors of all these songs. So they'll sign a licensing deal with a big distributor so that they can use all of these different songs on their platform. Now, if you come up with your own original music and it's on TikTok, you put it on TikTok, you're probably going to see it get flagged. 00:11:40:15 - 00:11:44:17 Wynton You've probably seen people put it up and get the sound removed, but. 00:11:44:19 - 00:11:46:03 Karama I’ve had my own voice get flagged. 00:11:46:07 - 00:11:52:13 Wynton Yes, bring it or you'll put something up on YouTube and you'll get a copyright strike and they'll they'll flag it. 00:11:52:13 - 00:11:58:07 Wynton a while back there was a big push to have these platforms put in place systems that could help 00:11:58:07 - 00:12:07:21 Wynton recognize copyrighted materials and pull it down so that creators weren't having to run around and police their copyright everywhere. 00:12:07:23 - 00:12:08:13 Wynton Right. 00:12:08:15 - 00:12:09:08 Karama Got it. 00:12:09:10 - 00:12:32:12 Wynton But it is still up to the creators to be active in making sure they are protecting and keeping vigilant on how their content is being used. So with music, there are two copyrights that are born when you make one song. So there's the copyright that protects the underlying composition. So all of the little bits and pieces that are put together to make the song. 00:12:32:14 - 00:12:43:09 Wynton Mm hmm. That's the underlying lyrics, a melody that has its own copyright. And then you've got the copyright that protects the master recording. So the final outcome and you also often hear artists that are like, 00:12:43:09 - 00:12:54:06 Wynton give the artists their masters back. Yeah, that's what they're talking about. And in a traditional sense, normally the label is going to own the master and then the artist is 00:12:54:06 - 00:12:59:07 Wynton either own outright the underlying composition or own a certain percentage of it. 00:12:59:07 - 00:13:08:06 Wynton And that is how it is determined who gets paid what When there are licensing deals done. We're we're talking about mechanical royalties, all that kind of stuff, right? 00:13:08:06 - 00:13:19:19 Wynton So if your song does get used by somebody without your authorization, it's copyright infringement. If it is on a platform without your authorization, it's copyright infringement. 00:13:19:19 - 00:13:23:23 Wynton You have a right to reach out to them and say, Hey, that's mine. 00:13:23:24 - 00:13:33:13 Wynton You can't use it that way. So yeah, if with music, with visual art, with any other kind of content that is original, that is yours, 00:13:33:13 - 00:13:43:17 Wynton if somebody is using it in a way that you don't want them to use it, you have a right to step in and say, I don't like this, please stop. That that's a very more forceful way. 00:13:43:17 - 00:13:44:10 Wynton They please stop. 00:13:44:12 - 00:13:46:09 Karama Yeah, I mean, that's why we hire lawyers 00:13:46:09 - 00:13:49:10 Karama But you also mentioned A.I. now A.I. 00:13:49:10 - 00:13:54:23 Karama when open I really opened the floodgates with ChatGPT last fall we have just you know, now it's everywhere. 00:13:54:23 - 00:14:00:04 Karama But I would probably say that midjourney and sites like that have been a problem for a minute. 00:14:00:04 - 00:14:04:22 Karama What is the problem with AI and copyright? 00:14:04:22 - 00:14:14:00 Wynton So there are two there are two areas for me at least in other IP attorneys and other attorneys in general, there are two areas of problem. 00:14:14:00 - 00:14:18:04 Wynton there's like a laundry list of legal issues that are born from 00:14:18:04 - 00:14:23:12 Wynton And then there's the ethical issues coming from what is happening with it, right? 00:14:23:14 - 00:14:34:11 Wynton So there's like the blanket for me, an IP attorney, there's just like the blanket. This is copyright infringement issue or this is trademark infringement issue or this could be patent 00:14:34:11 - 00:14:35:17 Wynton infringement, Right. 00:14:35:17 - 00:14:43:18 Wynton On the other hand, what the ethical side is just watching the way that these platforms refuse to 00:14:43:18 - 00:14:53:07 Wynton do anything to make these to make it right. First of all, they're not coming out and they're not telling us exactly how these things work. They're just giving us 00:14:53:07 - 00:15:01:12 Wynton this kind of blanket statement of it goes out and it scrapes the web for images and music. 00:15:01:12 - 00:15:14:09 Wynton It just goes out and scrapes the web for these things and learns from it. But doesn't doesn't pull it in. That doesn't really tell us anything. What does what is scraping? It's what is what is scraping? 00:15:14:12 - 00:15:21:10 Karama Well, it's funny that you ask that question because all I could find on this is basically that had like a one sentence description was 00:15:21:10 - 00:15:41:10 Karama AI can be used for web scraping in a number of ways. One way is by using machine learning to automatically identify and extract data from web pages. This can be done by training a model to recognize patterns of data on a particular page or site, and then using that model to automatically extract the data. 00:15:41:10 - 00:15:44:21 Karama That's from brandveda, by the way, for anybody who's interested. 00:15:44:21 - 00:15:55:23 Wynton like even the definition that you gave me is still vague. It's just got a lot of techie language in it of like machine learning. Okay, What what is what is that like? 00:15:55:23 - 00:15:59:13 Wynton in the law, it is the meanings of the word. 00:15:59:13 - 00:16:28:13 Wynton We go from the meanings of the exact word. You got to give me words that have real meaning, though those are kind of really fluffy words of telling. It's scraping, it's machine learning, it's going out and it's looking at stuff. Tell me what the process is and what it's pulling in and what the data is, that it's pulling it right Ethically, Are you giving artists the option to be scraped or not to be scraped? 00:16:28:13 - 00:16:54:12 Wynton ethically you're not giving an artist the chance to say, you know what, I really don't want my art to be a part of teaching your machine how to do what it does. You're not giving these artists the chance to protect their rights in ownership, in their pieces of work. You're just going out and you're doing it, and you know you're doing it without asking them because the CEO of Mid Journey was like at the end of last year 00:16:54:12 - 00:16:56:01 Wynton did an interview with Forbes. 00:16:56:03 - 00:16:58:16 Wynton The interviewer asked him several questions about this, 00:16:58:16 - 00:17:00:06 Wynton he's asked him, 00:17:00:06 - 00:17:29:11 Wynton where are you getting all of this? He's like, oh, it's like hundreds of millions of images across the Web. And then he at one point asked him, well, are you getting permission from the owners of these pieces of work? And his answer, these are not his exact words, but his answer was basically, no, we really have no way to go out and figure out who owns what and ask them permission, which is kind of a B.S. answer to me, because and that's why we have copyright laws in place. 00:17:29:11 - 00:17:38:13 Karama Exactly. And I also keep thinking of things like Getty Images and all of these stock footage, places like they figured it out. 00:17:38:15 - 00:18:11:15 Wynton Yes. And even Getty has come out and said they do not accept any images that are generated by AI., the Copyright Office has come out several times, which is another huge legal issue. The Copyright Office has come out several times and said air generated creative works are ineligible for copyright protection, which means in essence, they are dumped into the public domain and anybody can use them for whatever means they want commercial, personal, whatever. 00:18:11:17 - 00:18:17:11 Wynton And I can go into a rant about what that means for a lot of other different things in the space. 00:18:17:13 - 00:18:31:24 Karama Because I thought I was excited when I heard that the USPTO was not like, Hey, we're not accepting this, we're not patenting these and we're not given copyright. I'm like, Yes. And they're like, It's public domain. I'm like, No. 00:18:32:01 - 00:19:03:05 Wynton Well, they're right because there's nowhere else for it to go. Either it is protected by copyright or it is not. There's no in-between because there's no in-between. There's nothing in between for it to go. If it exists, it has to either be protected and owned or not. Okay. There's no there's no in-between, right. So there is and we've seen these kind of cases before, not particularly with AI, but there was this monkey who actually funny enough, was named Naruto. 00:19:03:07 - 00:19:42:16 Wynton Oh, wow. Wow. Years and years back there was a photographer, a wildlife photographer who went out into the jungle. The cat monkey got a hold of his camera, took some selfies. Long story short, it ended up in court because he made a book out of them. He was selling them. And that and PETA actually filed a lawsuit on behalf of the monkey Monkey saying that he owned the copyright to those photos and the photographer was violating his rights and it was copyright infringement of the monkeys, copyright the courts came out and said, no, 00:19:42:16 - 00:19:49:01 Wynton the basis of copyright law, is human authorship. 00:19:49:03 - 00:19:55:11 Wynton Then these photos did not have any human authorship. Therefore, they're ineligible for copyright protection. 00:19:55:11 - 00:20:15:17 Wynton The same is said here with artificial intelligence. There is no human authorship. It's code, it's machine. You're telling me it's machine learning and it's a machine generating it. There is no human authorship, therefore it is ineligible for copyright protection and is now in the public domain. 00:20:15:19 - 00:20:22:06 Karama Wow. Okay. First of all, I'm blown away by the fact that they were defending a monkey for the. Okay. 00:20:22:06 - 00:20:28:00 Wynton as silly as it is, it actually ended up yielding good case law that we can now use. 00:20:28:00 - 00:20:29:06 Karama Precedent to get. 00:20:29:08 - 00:20:55:16 Wynton Stuff like this. Right. But here's one of the big ethical and legal issues that comes from this. Right? So if you're on TikTok, if you're on Instagram, you see the ad generated filters that people can take pictures of themselves and it'll generate them like as a medieval person on Spain, it'll it'll generate all these pictures based on your image and kick it back to you and all these different cool ways. 00:20:55:16 - 00:21:09:00 Wynton Right. If you think about what we're just talking about, if it is generated by A.I., those images of you are now dumped into the public domain. You're now dumping your image into the public domain. 00:21:09:00 - 00:21:11:23 Karama I've said this tons of times and people think I'm crazy. 00:21:11:23 - 00:21:29:10 Karama I'm making this up, but let's say some racist company buys the company out that was making that app, right? And now they have a bunch of black people's images that they turn into all kinds of horrible things, you know, mean, which is not the worst thing that's ever happen to us, but not out of the realm of possibility. 00:21:29:10 - 00:21:33:20 Wynton So you're actually not you're not you're actually hitting the bullseye with that. 00:21:33:20 - 00:21:38:17 Wynton there is an African model who has generated. 00:21:38:17 - 00:21:56:20 Wynton She's not real. Yes. But she was generated by a white man, a white male individual who controls that image. There are ethical issues there of someone controlling a black image in a commercial sense. That is. 00:21:56:20 - 00:21:57:11 Karama Yes. 00:21:57:13 - 00:22:01:19 Wynton There are ethical issues there. While this is not a real person. 00:22:01:20 - 00:22:08:15 Karama Right. The virtual influence, you're saying, No, no, no, no, no. You're absolutely right. There are a few white ones, too. But there is an African model. 00:22:08:15 - 00:22:19:23 Karama he's making millions of dollars because no one has to sell anything. They are physically just putting the designs on this model and yeah, I know, I know who you're talking about. 00:22:19:23 - 00:22:43:22 Karama And it's yeah, that also happened with after Matrix four came out with that movie. But Unreal Engine, you know, kind of did a tie in with like, Hey, we're releasing this new Unreal Engine thing. I'm just talking about that. And they put out Unreal Engine for laypeople to use. You could say my boyfriend tried it. 00:22:43:22 - 00:23:01:02 Karama and was able to create some stuff you could create things in this world. There was a person, an artist that put up some really amazing images of a black woman that a lot of people who don't know what Unreal Engine is thought was real. 00:23:01:02 - 00:23:09:13 Karama And he was using hashtags like Black Lives Matter and the only reason and changed his Twitter icon. 00:23:09:15 - 00:23:10:01 Wynton Oh, wow. 00:23:10:02 - 00:23:26:16 Karama Okay. There was a bunch of us that called him out on digital blackface because there was things that he said that we were like, Yep, you're not black. We don't. You don't. We would never say that. No one said that since 1962, are you even human? And then someone dug it up and realized it was like a white dude that was using this app. 00:23:26:22 - 00:23:29:13 Karama Yes. I'm like, digital blackface is a problem. 00:23:29:15 - 00:23:46:19 Wynton It's a thing. And it's it's it's going to get worse as AI develops and a lot of people I've gotten when I talk about AI on social media, I get tons of just like if I get negative feedback from any topic, it is talking about artificial intelligence. 00:23:46:19 - 00:23:50:14 Karama Oh yeah, they got time or they're bots. 00:23:50:14 - 00:24:30:22 Wynton but that doesn't mean I'm against it. I think artificial intelligence is a fantastic gateway to giving people access to things that they may not have had access to before, whether it's physical access, mental access to physical capability, access. A.I. is is going to be something that helps a lot of people if we don't ratchet back a little bit and take a look at what we're doing, it is also going to hurt millions and millions of people, and it's going to put a lot of artists and creators out of business. 00:24:30:22 - 00:24:55:04 Wynton But it's also a huge part of what's going on with the writers strike. And yeah, is right in there. Air is going to put a lot of the things that we love as nerds in jeopardy and the quality of the things that we love as nerds in jeopardy because human authorship. 00:24:55:06 - 00:24:57:18 Wynton So I'll go on my like, creative rant for a second. 00:24:57:20 - 00:24:58:05 Karama No, no, no. 00:24:58:05 - 00:25:28:12 Wynton Please do like, my philosophy as an entertainment attorney is that arts and entertainment is uniquely human. There's nothing else on this planet that can do and develop and create the way that human beings can. I know we see, you know, videos of elephants painting and monkeys taking pictures and all that kind of stuff. But on the level that human beings can do it, nothing else can. 00:25:28:12 - 00:25:58:15 Wynton And I will argue till I'm blue in the face and dead in the ground, artificial intelligence cannot do it the same way that that humans can do it right. It may be able to generate some very cool things, but human beings and art is so unique, it's it's it's insane the way that we across history have held up arts. 00:25:58:15 - 00:26:26:15 Wynton It entertainment and valued it is so important. It's one of the few things in human history that spans across human existence from the cavemen that were drawing on the cave walls. Until now, arts has been here with us and a part of us. And what we do. So we should continue to cherish it and continue to cherish the human authorship that goes into creating. 00:26:26:17 - 00:26:37:24 Wynton Right. I think artificial intelligence, yes. Will be a vital part of that going forward. It's not going anywhere, unfortunately. But we still need to hold on to the human authorship aspect of it. 00:26:38:01 - 00:26:55:15 Karama We absolutely do. Now, I'm going to take a break here so we can pay some bills. But when we come back, we're going to talk about ho w some people, some real life humans are fighting back against sort of this AIrevolution, both artists and musicians. We'll be right back in a second 00:26:55:15 - 00:27:26:06 Karama Welcome back to the Blago podcast. I am here with Wynton Yates, Esquire entertainment attorney, and we are knee deep in this conversation about art ownership and the legal ramifications. One of the things I want to talk to you about is just talking about art. I'm just thinking of the artists that filed a class action lawsuit in January against Majani and other eye scraping apps 00:27:26:06 - 00:27:33:03 Karama these artists, first of all, did they win that court case or is that still ongoing? 00:27:33:05 - 00:27:54:04 Wynton That is still ongoing. And it is one of, I think, two at the moment. But that kind of highlights the issue with what's going on with artificial intelligence is that all of these questions that we have right now are theoretical because it's unmitigated in a lot of spaces in the law. We can lean on written law, we can lean on case law. 00:27:54:04 - 00:28:08:19 Wynton We can look at old cases that have already been litigated to pull rules from them. And the way and look at the way that judges in, you know, Supreme Court and appeals courts have ruled on things in the past. But we're looking at something that is new territory. We kind of have to lean on old cases like the 00:28:08:19 - 00:28:17:13 Wynton Naruto case with the with the monkey to look at how we've looked at things that could be similar in the past. 00:28:17:15 - 00:28:23:00 Wynton And in this case we are looking at copyright laws 00:28:23:00 - 00:28:43:00 Wynton that in general did not could not have imagined artificial intelligence at the level that it is right now. Right? Yeah, because when we're talking about intellectual property and we're talking about creative works, we're talking about painters talking about screenwriters, talking about musicians, you name it, 00:28:43:00 - 00:28:44:08 Wynton we're talking about ownership. 00:28:44:09 - 00:28:50:11 Wynton Ownership is the core issue for me at least. It's the core issue right? 00:28:50:11 - 00:28:52:18 Wynton Whoever owns it controls it. 00:28:52:20 - 00:28:54:07 Karama Right? 00:28:54:09 - 00:29:25:03 Wynton We're talking about artificial intelligence. They're saying it scrapes, it goes out and scrapes hundreds of millions, images in songs and recordings and all this stuff. Right. So who owns it? Copyright law tells us that the very basic law, before you get into all the exceptions and the rules and all that kind of stuff, is that the original author of the creative work owns the copyright period Hard stop until you get into like joint works and work for hire and all that kind of thing. 00:29:25:03 - 00:29:26:06 Wynton All the exceptions, of course. 00:29:26:06 - 00:29:38:23 Wynton When we're talking about artificial intelligence, Right. Is it the person that created the algorithm that is running this machine learning or this scraping? Is it the hundreds of millions of 00:29:38:23 - 00:29:51:21 Wynton owners of the images that were scraped? Do they all own 1/1000000 of this thing, or is it the person that's typing in the props to generate this this work? 00:29:51:23 - 00:29:52:17 Wynton Who owns it? 00:29:52:21 - 00:30:17:05 Karama Well, here's and here's the thing. I if you take a look at how mid journey and all of these things work, even the props have to be very specific to something that has already been created. They can't do just like you. You're you all are trying to create laws or defend laws based on previous laws. Can't draw or come up with something new if they have no reference given to it. 00:30:17:11 - 00:30:44:18 Karama So I do think there's something to be said about like that particular class action lawsuit. They were going after stable diffusion, mid journey and one other company, I can't remember the name of them, but I did see a comic artist, Kelly McKiernan, who was part of this talk about the fact she and other artists, people were beating specifically to her art and other people's art. 00:30:44:18 - 00:31:13:04 Karama They weren't just going after a whole bunch of different people. They were saying, I'm giving you all of this person's art draw something like this. And then the sad thing about that is if you want to work with X, Y, or Z artists, you can't afford them. Mm hmm. Then somebody can go go and find a digital artist and say, Listen, I want you to create something like this, you know? 00:31:13:04 - 00:31:32:03 Karama But I still think the concept belongs to that artist. The other thing that I'm also just talking about doors opening both ways. I think the thing that's also terrifying are pitches like written pitches are the concept art. That is that's the first thing I saw when I saw a lot of the art. I'm like, This all looks like concept art. 00:31:32:03 - 00:31:50:15 Karama Yeah, and it was because tons of people pitch concept art. And for those of you who don't know, concept art is if you've ever seen an episode of Mandalorian at the end, when the end credits are rolling and you see all the art that's up there that looks like scenes from the show, that is Dave Filoni concept art. 00:31:50:16 - 00:32:12:20 Karama Sometimes it's other people. It's often him, his concept art of the scenes. So people will pitch or put in tons and tons of concept art that doesn't get used. And then where does it go? What if these sites are paying people for this unused art like that? You know, there's still there's I feel like there needs to be recourse coming and going. 00:32:12:22 - 00:32:18:11 Karama Like, what is that thing that people sign where they're going to show a script but they don't want it stolen to by the people. 00:32:18:14 - 00:32:20:04 Wynton In NDA right? 00:32:20:06 - 00:32:31:11 Karama I mean, there needs to be some type of protection, like an NDA or something for an artist. Now when they when they pitched something so that their stuff just just get fed into a machine. 00:32:31:13 - 00:32:57:10 Wynton So again, that's part of that's part of what's going on with the writers strike. But also like, yes, you're hitting the nail on the head just as a creator thinking critically of how this could affect you as a creator. You're and all the other people watching this and like the question of ownership, like I was saying, is the core of this, because if you don't own it, then who does? 00:32:57:10 - 00:33:24:15 Wynton And if nobody owns it, it's in the public domain. And once it's in the public domain, it can be used by anybody for anything which goes to which again, goes to what you were just saying about if you can't afford to work with a specific artist. I it at the stage it is right now for artists creatives across the board AI is devaluing art 00:33:24:15 - 00:33:26:19 Wynton Yeah because 00:33:26:19 - 00:33:31:22 Wynton if you want to go and get an artist to paint you, 00:33:31:22 - 00:33:48:02 Wynton you know, a specific style of painting for your wall and they charge $5,000 for it. Oh, I can't afford that. All right. I'm just going to go generate it type it in, I'm going to get what I want, I'm going to print it out and I'm going to put it on the wall. 00:33:48:02 - 00:33:48:23 Wynton Done. 00:33:49:00 - 00:33:51:08 Karama Which is your right until you decide to sell it. 00:33:51:08 - 00:33:54:22 Wynton Or you can sell it. It's in the public domain. Why not? 00:33:54:24 - 00:33:57:01 Karama I see what you're saying. 00:33:57:03 - 00:34:13:16 Wynton So even if you bought the painting from the artist, you could still you could still sell the painting. Now you'd still like if you buy the art from the the painter, you are buying the art. You are not buying the rights. 00:34:13:18 - 00:34:14:05 Karama Right? 00:34:14:10 - 00:34:39:11 Wynton You do not own the rights. So either way you still selling Just the painting. It's the same concept with tattoos. So there was the the tattoo artist who did the tattoos for Randy Orton. Mm hmm. Who successfully sued the WWE and Take-Two Interactive. That makes the 2K games. Mm hmm. They made WWE two K, They featured Randy Orton in it. 00:34:39:11 - 00:35:03:16 Wynton They recreated all of his tattoos. They created his his sleeves, and the tattoo artist filed suit and won because she owned the copyright in those designs that she put on his body. That is that that's probably the second highest wow amount of hate that I've gotten is is telling people about that on Tok. Yes. It's on his skin. 00:35:03:17 - 00:35:14:12 Wynton Yes. Yes. We have tattoos on our skin. We own the physical tattoo. I do not own the rights in this sleeve. I don't own the rights in it that the artist does. 00:35:14:14 - 00:35:15:17 Karama Exactly. 00:35:15:19 - 00:35:29:04 Wynton So in the same way that somebody would license our music or something like that, they were supposed to go to the artists and say, Hey, we want to license your designs for this video game so that we can recreate them in the video game. 00:35:29:06 - 00:35:53:02 Karama Wow, I'm glad they won. Speaking of music, I want to share this thing that just dropped this week about Frank Ocean. I don't know this and I. I generated Frank Ocean songs sold for thousands of dollars. I'm reading this from Gizmodo, so, Frank, Frank Ocean is elusive on a good day. Like we can't find him on a good day, right? 00:35:53:03 - 00:36:17:04 Karama So there's a bunch of chats and I remember hearing about these tracks, but I just thought they were, you know, somebody had leaked something from Coachella I didn't know. And so apparently and a lot of other people did too. They were like, Oh, I'm going to get this leak exclusive track. So this guy that calls himself Morning Assassins, he put them up for sale on an Internet music collector's market and discord. 00:36:17:06 - 00:36:49:07 Karama He offered users and moderators on Discord, the songs in exchange for upwards of $4,000 each, telling everybody that basically he made around. I don't know how much you made. I think it's between 13 and $15,000, so maybe like two or three people bought them. But the point is, it's all fake. But he didn't just sample the music he hired or I'm saying he it might be a C or they they hired a musician to create nine instrumentals that would feature Ocean's vocals, which were in turn created with AI. 00:36:49:07 - 00:37:09:01 Karama the model used to create those vocal tracks was apparently trained with high quality vocal snippets of the artist's voice. So he pulled Snap. They pulled snippets of Frank Ocean's voice, mixed it with a musician's work, a musician that they actually hired, the music that came out of it sounded so real. 00:37:09:01 - 00:37:29:15 Karama Everybody thought it was Frank Ocean's actual music. People paid for it until you got caught. So my question is, who catches it? Who gets sued? The guy who masterminded this whole thing, the artist who came in to create the tracks like The Bed of Music, 00:37:29:15 - 00:37:34:24 Karama the Discord platform or the mod knew like who catches it? 00:37:35:01 - 00:37:40:16 Wynton Oh, everybody's catching a cease and desist. Everybody's getting is everybody's catching it right. 00:37:40:16 - 00:37:47:20 Wynton The thought process there is you got to argue your way out of it. Tell the court why you are not a party to this lawsuit. 00:37:47:20 - 00:37:59:16 Wynton So I'm send it out to everybody, especially the person who created it. Right. So this to me, there's there's so many issues that are coming from this. 00:37:59:18 - 00:38:14:17 Wynton This one specific case is I'm suing for fraud. I'm suing for misappropriation of name, image and likeness. I'm suing for trademark and I'm selling for copyright. And there's so many legal and ethical issues that arise from this because. 00:38:14:19 - 00:38:17:04 Karama You get a C&D you get a C&D everybody's. 00:38:17:04 - 00:38:34:00 Wynton Getting everybody's getting it right. Because if we're just looking at the misappropriation of the name, image and likeness, we're talking about the fact that we all are our own individual selves and we all have the right to license out any aspect of our persona in the way we see fit. 00:38:34:02 - 00:38:34:23 Karama Mm hmm. 00:38:35:00 - 00:39:05:16 Wynton And this case you are taking away that right, That ability from Frank Ocean. He did you give him the option to say, yes, you can use my voice to train your your AI to then create something and sell it? No, you just took it. You just took his voice to create something. And then the question is, is the voice that was generated from the AI, is that Frank Ocean's voice, or is that the A.I.? 00:39:05:18 - 00:39:10:22 Wynton Because the I have generated that voice on its own. 00:39:10:24 - 00:39:15:00 Karama Right and that and the oh God, when we get into sentience, we. 00:39:15:02 - 00:39:19:23 Wynton Could, I, I have eventually generated a voice that sounds 00:39:19:23 - 00:39:27:18 Wynton that close to Frank Ocean. We may never know because it was our it was trained in using Frank Ocean's voice. 00:39:27:20 - 00:39:41:02 Karama Well, something similar happened with Drake and the weekend. I think you heard about that situation. And I think Universal. Universal is like, shut it down immediately. Like everybody's catching it. They're trying to put everybody in jail. They're like. 00:39:41:02 - 00:40:00:24 Wynton No, as they should. But then following that, Grimes tweeted out, “Hey, you, anybody can use my voice for A.I. songs make as many as you want. The blanket deal is going to be. I get 50% ownership of whatever you create. I don't care. Go do it”. So you've got artists like that who are on the other side of the fence are like, Yeah, go for it. 00:40:01:01 - 00:40:16:00 Wynton Cool. But you still have given she has given been given the opportunity to say, Yeah, you can use my voice. This is the deal. Frank Ocean wasn't given that choice. Drake was the weekend, was it? They weren't that choice. 00:40:16:00 - 00:40:32:19 Karama is that the answer To do what Grimes did and say, Okay, we're going to set up a A.I. music division where artists can get a piece of the music that is created. 00:40:32:19 - 00:40:36:17 Karama but that they could get a piece like We can't Stop and we can only hope to contain it. 00:40:36:19 - 00:40:43:10 Karama If you want to protect your voice, you sign up with this particular service. So that and we do find out that somebody uses it. 00:40:43:10 - 00:40:45:01 Karama we have some recourse. 00:40:45:01 - 00:40:57:07 Karama So is it something similar like that? It maybe is the answer creating like a Getty Images kind of thing for air where artists can pay to have their stuff use. 00:40:57:09 - 00:41:01:19 Wynton So I think it depends which is the worst answer possible. 00:41:01:21 - 00:41:02:22 Karama That's alawyer answer.I got it. 00:41:02:22 - 00:41:26:15 Wynton I guess it depends because you have to talk to the artists themselves. Some artists are okay with that. Some artists are flat out against it. They don't want their stuff used at all. How do you develop a system that protects everyone and gives everyone an equal voice to say whether or not they want their their stuff used or not? 00:41:26:20 - 00:41:32:06 Wynton Right? So it's really easy for an artists like Grimes to come out and say, Yeah, you can use my stuff. 00:41:32:06 - 00:41:45:00 Wynton But the people who don't want their stuff used have not been given that chance. If their stuff has already been used, it's been used and they were never given the opportunity or asked a question. 00:41:45:02 - 00:42:07:02 Wynton Do you mind if I use your stuff to trade my. I know I don't. That conversation has never happened. Right. So again, it's really easy to be able to say, Yeah, you can use it, I don't care. But it's really hard to be able to say No, you cannot use my stuff, especially at the at the point we are with AI right now because it's it's out there. 00:42:07:03 - 00:42:10:08 Wynton It's it's getting bigger and faster and stronger every day. 00:42:10:10 - 00:42:22:19 Karama And it's learning because right now it's right now some of mostly air looks pretty terrible with the seven hands and the jacked up teeth. But did you see that commercial that pizza? 00:42:22:19 - 00:42:24:24 Wynton Haven't seen the I haven't seen the commercial yet. 00:42:24:24 - 00:42:28:14 Karama But oh, my God. It's nightmare fuel, but it's learning. 00:42:28:16 - 00:42:30:06 Wynton And it will eventually. 00:42:30:08 - 00:42:43:12 Karama Get better. It will get better. And then what makes me nervous is when because it's so hard to tell what's real and what's fake, What happens when that hits politics or government or voting? 00:42:43:14 - 00:43:05:16 Wynton Well, it already has, right? So one of the big things right now that people are not paying attention to, but, you know, I plan on making some concern about this soon. I just have to do it in a way that Tok is not going to take it down. But two areas, revenge porn and just AI generated porn using someone else's face. 00:43:05:18 - 00:43:05:23 Karama Yeah. 00:43:06:01 - 00:43:40:16 Wynton Is about to take off it is about to take off. People are not wanting to hear that. But if you dumped your image into the public domain, someone who is really good at generating a I, it's somebody is going to take one of those images and produce adult content with it. Mm hmm. I can say that with confidence, because the adult industry, the content industry has been around forever. 00:43:40:16 - 00:43:45:20 Wynton It will never go anywhere. It makes hundreds of trillion dollars a year. It's not going anywhere. 00:43:45:22 - 00:44:10:13 Karama And also, people don't realize how much of the adult porn industry also has affected the evolution of technology. Mm hmm. Like one of the reasons why TV shows all went to video back in the eighties was because porn was all on video and there was already proof that was a cheaper, faster way to produce a show as opposed to having these gigantic film cameras and all the post-production. 00:44:10:13 - 00:44:13:17 Karama I remember digital. Digital 00:44:13:17 - 00:44:15:22 Karama And then the same thing with streaming, 00:44:15:22 - 00:44:38:18 Wynton It's going to happen and it's going to happen fast. So we need to get things in place and is not me railing against the entertainment industry at all? Because I have clients who this is their content. They they fall into this conversation because they are creating original content that they own. It's covered by the same laws as other original content, copyright, trademark, all that stuff. 00:44:38:18 - 00:44:51:20 Wynton Right? This is going to affect their jobs, their livelihoods as well, because this is stuff that can be generated quickly, efficiently and on a scale that 00:44:51:20 - 00:44:58:21 Wynton human authorship, again, cannot keep up with. Is the quality going to be the same? Absolutely not. 00:44:58:21 - 00:45:02:19 Wynton Are there going to be huge ethical issues? There already are, yes. 00:45:02:19 - 00:45:24:01 Wynton Especially when we're talking about having access to hundreds of millions of people's images that they have given up inadvertently, unknowingly giving up the rights to protect it. Right. So even if you you say, well, what are they going to do? I had created a picture of myself as a mystical elf. 00:45:24:01 - 00:45:26:10 Wynton They're going to make mystical elf porn. What do you think? 00:45:26:10 - 00:45:32:18 Karama Like I had the hardest time trying to explain to my mother that the Pope does not have a puffy white down coat. 00:45:32:20 - 00:45:37:09 Wynton No, he doesn't. It doesn't. That is the same image. Yes. 00:45:37:11 - 00:45:45:11 Karama But yes. You know, and that's that's the sad part. I'm just even thinking about, you know, she's older. Think of the elderly who are already scammed into things. 00:45:45:11 - 00:45:56:02 Wynton There's there's currently the scam going on right now where people are collecting people's voices like they are with Drake the weekend Frank Ocean as we're talking about that. 00:45:56:02 - 00:46:14:18 Wynton People are collecting people's voices and then using them to scam everyday people. So, yeah, I was just reading a story about a young lady who got a call from her daughter who she thought was her daughter, and her daughter was screaming, Hey, they're going to they're going to they're going to hurt me. They're going to do this. They're going to do this. 00:46:14:18 - 00:46:25:10 Wynton They want you to send them some money so that they won't hurt me. This lady is hearing her daughter's voice terrified on the phone and all she can think is I need to save my child. 00:46:25:10 - 00:46:33:20 Wynton It was I. It was not her daughter. Her daughter was safe at school, but she didn't know that because she's hearing her daughter screaming for her life on the phone. 00:46:33:24 - 00:46:35:20 Karama There's a special place in hell for these people. 00:46:35:20 - 00:46:38:05 Wynton So that's what I'm saying. Like, AI 00:46:38:05 - 00:46:44:06 Wynton is a problem right now. It's a problem right now because we don't have any kind of reins 00:46:44:06 - 00:46:49:17 Wynton to control it. It's just it's it's going in a direction that's going to hurt a lot of people. 00:46:49:17 - 00:46:54:24 Wynton if we don't put some kind of regulations in place 00:46:54:24 - 00:47:00:22 Wynton to protect people somewhat, at least. 00:47:00:22 - 00:47:12:08 Karama I would love for you to come back and share some more thoughts, ideas about this. Thank you so much, Winton, for hanging out. We're going to everybody find you on the interwebs. 00:47:12:12 - 00:47:31:09 Wynton Yeah. So first you can find me at lawyer went into Ecom. Other than that, you can find me on virtually every social media platform. Just type in lawyer. Winton So TikTok and Instagram are mainly where I hang out. Mainly where I hang out is Tik Tok. But lawyer wins in everywhere. You'll be able to find me. 00:47:31:09 - 00:47:36:01 Wynton Yeah, no, I'm excited. This is great stuff, but like, I'll close it out with this 00:47:36:01 - 00:47:43:03 Wynton I'm waiting for somebody face to end up in a video game and they're going to be real pissed off about it because 00:47:43:08 - 00:47:45:09 Karama probably already happening as we speak. 00:47:45:09 - 00:47:52:18 Karama Awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your expertise. And yeah, I'm going to go start writing questions for the next time you come by. 00:47:52:18 - 00:48:19:20 Unknown Well, I hope you all were taking notes because that was an absolutely packed conversation. Please follow Wynton across all of the socials. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please give a like an A subscribe and also subscribe to my YouTube channel. I'm posting the video versions of my podcast there now as well. Now, if you would like to see me produce more content like this more often, please consider contributing to the Blair Girl Patreon and also fill out the podcast survey form there as well. 00:48:19:24 - 00:48:38:19 Unknown That also helps me get advertising for the show. Don't forget to listen to my horror podcast Pop Paranormal. And if you have your own podcast and are looking to level up, check out my podcast Media kit templates as well. You're going to find links to all this stuff in the show notes. Thanks again, everyone. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. 00:48:38:23 - 00:48:40:01 Unknown I'll see you next time. Scroll back to top Sign up to receive email updates Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast. powered by
April 21, 202344 min
Black film history lessons with Len Webb and Vincent Williams
Did you know that the same year that Driving Miss Daisy won multiple Academy Awards, that Spike Lee’s Do the Right Thing wasn’t even nominated? If you are a fan of Black cinema, then you are going to love this episode. Recently, I had the pleasure of interviewing Len Web and Vincent Williams, co-hosts of “The Micheaux Mission” podcast and creators of the new podcast documentary “Class of 1989” . The Micheaux Mission livestream provides insightful and in-depth analysis of literally every black film ever made, and the co-hosts’ discussions range from debates on what constitutes a black film to reviews of hidden gems, making this podcast a must-listen for any film lover. “The Class of 1989” is a fascinating podcast limited series exploring the pivotal year for Black cinema and features interviews with industry professionals. I’ve known these guys for years, so this discussion is full of laughter. Enjoy! Len Webb and Vincent Williams took a whole year to create the podcast documentary “The Class of 1989” (L-R) Co-Hosts Len Webb and Vincent Williams LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! Show Notes: Micheaux Mission Website Micheaux Mission Livestream The Micheaux Mission The Class of 1989
March 30, 202343 min
The Healing Journey of Jacque Aye
Welcome back to THEBLERDGURL podcas t ! In this episode, I’m joined by Jacque Aye, author, entrepreneur, and podcaster. We’ll be discussing her debut novel, “How to Be a Better Adult,” and her journey towards writing it. Aye shares her inspiration for the book, drawing from her experiences in corporate America. She also talks about her personal growth and how it led her to explore her passion for writing fiction. We touch on the concept of “soft life” and how capitalism has distorted the idea of self-care. We also discuss the cultural expectations placed on Black women to be caretakers and how it can lead to neglecting one’s own needs. Aye also shares information on her upcoming projects, including a self-care coloring book and a collection of short stories. Thanks for tuning in! Jacque Aye shuttered her popular shop “Adorned by Chi” to launch a self-care brand and lean into her writing career Author Jacque Aye “How to Be a Better Adult ” by Jacque Aye (Cover art by WHYT MANGA) LISTEN BELOW OR CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCATCHER If you enjoyed my chat with JACQUE AYE please subscribe and leave a comment over on iTunes for me if you can, it really helps me out. Or, screenshot your podcatcher and tag theblerdgurl over on IG stories with what you liked about it! Show Notes: Jacque Aye’s books The Magical Girls Guide to Life podcast Pop Paranormal podcast SIGNED COPY OF “Protectors of Wakanda: The History and Training Manual of the Dora Milaje”
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