Ministry Without Hating It

Hosted by Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill

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Aug 2026

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About the show

Is it possible to do ministry without hating it? We have a theory that it just might be. Join us in our pursuit to answer this question through the stories of ministry leaders who have been where you're at, and pick up the wisdom they've earned in the trenches of their own ministry journeys.

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60 recent

December 17, 2024Episode 381 hr 19 min

#38: Renegades, Not Rebels | Reframing Your Questions with Ministry Pain feat. BrianJames McMahon

At its core, experiencing pain simply means that something is off. And oftentimes, we think pain is bad. And sometimes it is. And sometimes it can be really useful. In our Season 3 Finale, therapist and pastor, BrianJames McMahon, unpacks for us how being honest and lamenting his own pain changed everything for him–including stepping out of vocational ministry. It’s possible to not fear pain, wrestle with lament, and bravely face the possibility of leaving a ministry, with hope–and without hating it. Resources Highlighted in this Interview: Church Well Co Website BrianJames Therapy Website Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co Guest Bio: BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection. BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery. Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

January 13, 2023Episode 1254 min

#12: Confessions of a Pastor's Kid | Navigating & Growing in Your Ministry at Home w/ PK Roundtable

Ministry is tough, but it can be even tougher on the ministry leader's kids. In our Season Two Premiere, we sit down for a candid conversation with three PK's (Pastor's Kids), two of them adults, one still a "kid", and unpack the highs, lows and burdens the children of ministry leaders experience that most people aren't aware of. Guest Bios: Jeniffer Burch graduated from Capri Cosmetology College in 1999 with a degree in Cosmetology Arts and Sciences, she was a Master Stylist and a Color Specialist. Jen has been the Hospitality Coordinator since 2010. Also has served in NextGen Ministries since 1998. For the past two years she has been the Church Administrator at Springs of Life. She has been married to Brian Burch since 2001, they have three wonderful children together. Jeniffer has a passion for people to see and use their God given gifts, talents and use them for His glory. She has a deep understanding of how we need the whole body of Christ to come together to serve the church and the community. TJ Burget currently resides in Rochester, MN serving as the worship and youth director of Word of Grace Church. TJ is married to Amanda, and has 41 years of being a pastor kid where he has developed a heart for kids whose parents are involved in some type of ministry. Between his time as a husband, pastor and being out on the golf course, TJ runs a non-profit organization that helps facilitate the building of schools in third world countries. He has a passion to see young adults, teenagers, and kids become everything that God has created and designed them to be. Addi Garrison is 13 years old, is daughter of Pastors Chad & Lindsay, loves Jesus, creative arts, serving kids ministry, and lives in Cedar Rapids, IA. Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

June 15, 2025Episode 441 hr 22 min

#44: There’s Grace For That | Formation Over Ministry Assignment feat. Sal & Krystal Bono

Have you ever said, “I am going to make this work, or die trying”? According to Pastors Sal & Krystal Bono, that’s probably the worst thing you can say within ministry. In this episode, the Bonos get candid about the pain from messy transitions, the death of a ministry dream and even being houseless for a season. But through all of these humbling experiences, Sal & Krystal also share the hope they have found to keep going by realizing, “there’s grace for that.” Also, the episode’s final score is Sal 1 - Krystal 1000. Resources Highlighted in this Interview: To connect further with Sal & Krystal at gracechrch.com Guest Bio: Sal and Krystal Bono have been married for 22 years and have four daughters. They live in Federal Way, WA where they serve together as Co-Lead Pastors at Grace Church. With over 20 years in ministry together, Sal and Krystal have faithfully served the Church in a variety of roles—including church planters, urban missionaries, creative pastors, worship leaders, discipleship directors, and youth pastors. Their passion for the local church is matched by a heart for creative entrepreneurship, using innovative tools and storytelling to build up people and communities for the glory of God. Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

January 15, 2024Episode 251 hr 28 min

#25: The Steward Leader | Stewarding the Me HE's Given Me to Be feat. Gary Dunahoo

New Year, New Vision--or is it? Executive Coach and Pastor, Gary Dunahoo, kicks off Season 3 by positing the question, "What if we could be more present today, trusting that God is going to lead us forward tomorrow?" Through his own experiences and learned wisdom, Gary unpacks practically, what it means to be a leader who stewards all they've been given today, and following where God is leading next. Guest Bio: Gary Dunahoo is an impassioned believer in the ability to advance human potential in both business and everyday life. A highly skilled and engaging coach, program leader, and human development professional who has run a successful executive development firm for nearly a decade, following 38+ years as a pastor, educator, and personal development professional. A noted concentration in helping women reach top corporate leadership positions, with experience helping community members create and build nonprofit enterprises for the public good. A recent recipient of a Ph.D. in Human Development. Connect further with Gary at https://www.garydunahoo.com Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

February 15, 2026Episode 541 hr 6 min

#54: Always Another Side to the Story | Positivity & Perspective in Kid’s Min w/ Lesli Klingenmeier

In this episode, we sit down with the ever-positive Pastor Lesli Klingenmeier! Through the lens of her decades in Children’s Ministry, and as a denominational leader, Lesli shares wisdom on the value of bi-vocational ministry, the changing landscape of Kids Ministry and the importance of always sharing stories. Lesli believes that when navigating through the challenges of ministry, the path to greater positivity is as simple as shifting our focus to what could be, over what is. Lesli also gets BONUS points for incorporating her own pastoral alliteration in the interview. Let’s fire it up! Resources Highlighted in this Interview: Connect further with Lesli Here Info on the Cornerstone Project Guest Bio: Lesli often jokes that she’s a bit of a poster child for the Foursquare Church. Her grandparents were part of the founding families of the Amherst Foursquare Church in Ohio, and Lesli grew up through the church attending kids camp, youth camps, and whatever Foursquare event she could find. She first sensed a call to ministry as a teenager, especially through her experiences at summer camps. But after some loving encouragement from her parents to get a “real career,” Lesli went to college, earning a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and a master’s degree in Occupational Therapy. She worked as an occupational therapist for five years before God made it clear it was time to step away from a stable career and follow His lead into full-time ministry. Making that decision at 28 was both terrifying and freeing. Her first ministry role was part-time as a Children’s Pastor at her home church, where she ended up serving for 12 years and watching God do incredible things in both the church and the community. From there, Lesli served for 10 years as the NextGen Coordinator for the Northeast Atlantic District, working with and training leaders across 15 states as well as coordinating youth and kids camps and young adult retreats. Since 2020, Lesli has returned to local church ministry at GrowPoint Church in Amherst. She describes herself as a “utility pastor,” helping wherever needed, with a primary focus on leading Kids Ministry and Women’s Ministry, two areas she deeply loves. Lesli also serves as a Lead Coach for the national Foursquare Cornerstone Project where she coaches NextGen leaders across the U.S. in leading their churches to deepen their focus on family discipleship. At the heart of everything Lesli does is a passion to see people of all ages grow in their love for Jesus and become thriving followers of Christ for a lifetime. Lesli's favorite season of the year is summer and loves anything summer-related, especially golf, and can usually be found on the course every Friday playing in a local women’s league. Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

May 31, 2022Episode 142 min

#1: Fine is a Four-letter Word | Bearing the Fruit of Joy in Ministry feat. Brenton Hill

If we seek to LOVE the ministry we lead for the long haul, we'd better get real in bearing the fruit of JOY. For our very first episode, we wanted to "set the table" for what's to come, but start off by interviewing show producer and pastor, Brenton Hill, on the subject of keeping Joy within our ministry. Through this candid conversation, you'll find that intentionally pursuing and cultivating joy makes all the difference in where you find yourself in your ministry today. Guest Bio: Brenton has served in ministry leadership for over 15 years. Youth Pastor, Worship Leader, Foursquare Camp Directors, and Lead Pastor are some of the roles in which he has served. Currently, Brenton and his wife Nicole lead at Illuminate Muncie Foursquare in Muncie, IN, all while navigating life with three wonderful children, a cat and soon to be goats and a dog. If you'd like to connect further with Brenton, you can visit his church's website at illuminatemuncie.com , or via email at: brenton@illuminatemuncie.com Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

May 15, 2023Episode 161 hr 19 min

#16: Not the Hero of This Story | Facing Addiction & Journey Towards Healthier feat. Bob Vander Meer

Addiction. As leaders we will either walk with those caught up in it, or find ourselves facing our own. In this episode, we have a raw and real conversation with Bob Vander Meer, a Pastor and Clinician for Pure Desire Ministries. Bob shares about his own journey with sexual addiction with honesty and vulnerability, wisdom to leaders struggling with addiction and the opportunities ministry leaders have to walk with others in the lifelong process of recovery. Guest Bio: Robert is a clinician at Pure Desire Ministries, pastor, and businessman. Not always in this order. Though all three of these positions take place in different locations, they all work toward the same goal: helping people become who they were created to be and present with those who are right in front of them. He has been a clinician at Pure Desire for 10 years, along with his wife. Prior to this, he and his wife worked as the Latin America representatives for Pure Desire, traveling in Latin America and speaking on the topic of sexual health. He has been a pastor and/or in ministry for more than 20 years and currently is part of a neighborhood church where he and his family live in North East Portland. While working as a senior pastor in Las Vegas, NV, Robert began to face his own sexual addiction. Not without the loss of ministry and relationship. The journey toward healthier is always continuing and a launching point for much of what he does now. Robert and his wife, Rebecca, have been married for 13 years and have two children: their son Amadeus and their daughter Carmela. They met in 1998 on a short-term mission trip in Costa Rica; however, they went their separate ways for a few years and made a mess of life. Fortunately, those messes helped them reconnect and pursue health together later on. Connect further with Bob at robertv@puredesire.org or visit https://puredesire.org/speakers/ Resources Highlighted in this Interview: Pure Desire Ministries The Wisdom of Stability: Rooting Faith in Mobile Culture by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

April 15, 2024Episode 281 hr 27 min

#28: Professional Christians | Avoiding a Vocational Relationship With Your Creator feat. Andy Sloan

Have we become professional Christians, abiding in church-ianity? We unpack what this means with our guest, Pastor Andy Sloan. With honesty and humor, Andy shares how he’s learned [the hard way] that being radically on mission is simpler than we may recognize, the practicalities of living out calling, and also what he considers to be his favorite scent. Resources Highlighted in this Interview: Celebration of Discipline by Richard J. Foster Connect further with Andy on instagram: @andysloan Guest Bio: Andy Sloan is a pastor in Denver, Colorado. Him and his wife, Rebecca, have been married for 12 years and have three beautiful young children. He recently finished his Masters in Spiritual formation and discipleship - based in Cape Town South Africa 🇿🇦 and has a huge interested in early monastic movements and walking others through cultivating an inner prayer life and understanding the joy of spiritual rhythms. Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

May 15, 2026Episode 5837 min

#58: Were the Spice Girls a Good Team? | Team Dynamics, Goals & Running Lanes

What started as a throwaway, icebreaker question, has officially become an entire episode. For this roundtable conversation, we brought in NextGen Pastor and Spice Girls Super Fan, Salina Gordon, along with MWH’s very own AJ Williams, to answer a question that’s deeper than you might think. Asking, “Were the Spice Girls a good team,” actually opens up an entire discussion around team dynamics, individual personalities, balanced vs. specialized roles, running lanes, team goals, sustainability and what actually defines a “good team”. Like we said, it’s deeper than you think. Join us, it’s time to “Spice Up” this podcast! Resources Highlighted in this Interview: Connect further with Salina at Illuminatemuncie.com Connect further with AJ at churchoftheopendoor.snappages.site Guest Bio: Salina Gordon has served as the NextGen Pastor at Illuminate Muncie (Muncie, IN) for the last three years, bringing plenty of “Spice Up Your Life” energy to every team and ministry she leads. Through children’s ministry, camp directing, and D.IV.E. team leadership, she’s learned that if you “Wannabe” a strong leader, you have to build people up, encourage collaboration, and know when to “Stop” playing it safe. She believes in taking “risks” on leaders, because friendship never really ends when a team is growing together with purpose. Whether helping volunteers find their voice or guiding students through leadership development, Salina works to make every ministry space a little more “Viva Forever” — full of growth, confidence, and passion for the next generation. AJ Williams is the Associate Pastor at Church of the Open Door in Clinton, Iowa, and serves as the Iowa NextGen Regional Mobilizer for the Foursquare Central District. Alongside his beautiful wife, Taylor Rel-Williams, and their daughter, Billie Rae-Ann Williams, AJ is passionate about helping people encounter Jesus in a way they feel seen, heard, and so loved that they are also sharing who Jesus is to those around them. Having served in NextGen ministry across Iowa since 2018, AJ eventually returned to his hometown to continue serving the community that helped shape him. His heart for ministry is centered on helping people discover that they are seen, loved, and created with purpose by God. Episode Credits: Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

November 9, 2022Episode 1056 min

#10: Stewards For a Moment In Time | Pillars For Living Well Learned As A Hospice Chaplain

Why do we do what we do? When the challenges of ministry come, and they will, remembering the answer to this question is crucial to being able to walk through the challenges well. Our guest for this episode is Pastor Jim McGuire, who has served as a Hospice Chaplain for over 22 years. In our discussion Jim shares the "pillars" of living well he has learned that were taught to him by those who were dying. It's a candid and practical conversation on how we can love the ministry we serve by keeping our perspective properly focused. Click Here to get Jim's book referenced in this episode, STAY: Four Pillars for Living Life and Finishing Well Guest Bio: Rev. Jim McGuire serves as a hospice chaplain at Lightways Hospice and Serious Illness Care in Joliet, Illinois. Jim graduated from Mt. Vernon Bible College (Ohio) in 1987 with a B.A. in Theology and from Lincoln Christian University (Illinois) in 1998 with a M.A. in New Testament. During his 22 years of hospice chaplaincy, he has visited and ministered to well over 5,000 individuals who have faced a terminal diagnosis. Through compassionate and competent care, he has helped each individual and their loved ones navigate one of life’s most stressful and emotional experiences. In 2019 Jim released his book, STAY: Four Pillars for Living Life and Finishing Well, in which he offers four practical life-lessons we can learn about living as taught by those who are dying. In 2021 he released the same book in the Spanish language under the title, Permanecer: Cuatro Pilares para Vivir la Vida Y Finalizar Bien, with the hope of reaching an often, under-resourced population. As an extension of his chaplaincy work Jim has officiated at hundreds of funeral services always with the goal of providing comfort and hope. Throughout his 35 years as a licensed and ordained Foursquare minister he has served several congregations in a variety of responsibilities including youth pastor, associate pastor, senior interim, and church planter. Additionally, Jim has previously served as the national Hospice Coordinator for Foursquare Chaplains International (FCI) as well as numerous state and regional ministry assignments. Jim has chaplain ecclesiastical endorsement through FCI. He continues to speak to civic groups and churches. Feel free to contact Jim as he is a resource of encouragement, education, and support. You can reach Jim at lvngyw@msn.com. Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

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