Just Say No To The DSO

Hosted by The Pod Mill

Management Health Fitness

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Latest episode

Jun 2026

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About the show

Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of selling a practice to a DSO and why this isn't as good as it sounds, or the only option for successful dentists to have a thriving practice. Come and listen for the years of experience inside dentistry, as well as medicine, that have led to their logical arguments and stay for additional audience and listener feedback. Questions you’d like addressed live in future episodes can be sent to: questions@justsaynotothedso.com Let's start the discussion on how to save the future of the Dental Industry.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

June 3, 20261 hr 2 min

It All Starts Right Here with Dr. Brendan Gallagher

We've looked at serveral dentists deep into their careers and gone over how a DSO doesn't really make sense...what about the doctor with all of the promise in the world on the very front of his career...does a DSO make sense there? In this episode, Brendan Gallagher, an oral surgeon and podcaster, shares insights on the impact of DSOs on dentistry, the importance of practice ownership, and strategies for young dentists to maximize their careers and income potential.

May 12, 202625 min

Now, The DSO Will Make Your Equity...Disappear

This episode exposes the realities behind DSO equity and why selling to a DSO often results in less financial benefit than expected. There is a magic trick all DSOs are trying to pull...the magically disappearing equity. Nate and Bob dissect the myths, true principles, and risks associated with DSO deals, empowering dentists to make informed decisions about their practice futures.

May 1, 202644 min

Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 2

Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of relationships in business, and how to make informed decisions like when to Say No to a DSO, this is the awesome conclusion to a great interview with Nate and Dr. Mike Crockett and his great wife Christy.

May 1, 202645 min

Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 1

Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of relationships in business, and how to make informed decisions including when to Say No to a DSO. Enjoy meeting the Crocketts with Nate in this awesome 2 part series.

April 19, 202636 min

Unmasking the DSO Deal: What Every Dentist Must Know

This episode exposes the hidden truths behind DSO deals in dentistry, revealing how dentists are often financially fleeced through complex deal structures. Bob and Nate bring you their expert analysis to break down the mechanics of these deals, showing why saying no to DSOs is crucial for dentists' financial health.

April 14, 202656 min

A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon

In this in-depth interview, a blue blooded Tar Heel, Dr. Travis Nixon shares his insights on the rise of DSOs, legislative challenges, and how dentists can protect their profession through education and advocacy. Not only does Dr Nixon have great insight into the current dentistry pipeline of practitioners, he also shares incredible insights into the business and structural changes of medicine and draws parallels to dentistry. You are going to love this episode with Dr Nixon

March 27, 202625 min

Who Works For Who? 6 DSO Tricks Most Dentists Don't See

This episode explores the six fundamental principles that reveal why DSO deals are detrimental to dental practitioners. Hosts Bob and Nate dissect the realities of private equity models, emphasizing the importance of maintaining control, understanding the true value of your practice, and making informed decisions to protect your wealth and profession.

March 25, 20261 hr 10 min

Sage Wisdom is Hard to Come By These Days with Dr. Michael W. Davis

summaryIn this episode, Dr. Michael W. Davis shares critical insights into the private equity influence on dentistry, the risks of DSOs, and how dentists can protect their practices and patients. A must-listen for dental professionals concerned about industry integrity and patient care.

March 17, 20261 hr 27 min

Away Game with the Orthodontic Pearls Podcast and Nate Williams

Nate sits down with the Orthodontic Pearls podcast in order to give his take on owning your own practice and why to stay away from selling out to PE and DSO groups. It's a full panel lineup with Drs. Chris Teeters, Andy Sarpotdar, and Brian Anderson.

March 12, 202633 min

The Emperor Has No Clothes

This episode features a candid discussion on the realities of DSOs in dentistry, highlighting industry failures, ethical concerns, and the importance of dentists making informed decisions about their practices. Hosts Bob Nate share insights, stories, and call for transparency and honesty among dental professionals. Bottom line...DSOs suck