Just Say No To The DSO

Hosted by The Pod Mill

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Aug 2026

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About the show

Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of selling a practice to a DSO and why this isn't as good as it sounds, or the only option for successful dentists to have a thriving practice. Come and listen for the years of experience inside dentistry, as well as medicine, that have led to their logical arguments and stay for additional audience and listener feedback. Questions you’d like addressed live in future episodes can be sent to: questions@justsaynotothedso.com Let's start the discussion on how to save the future of the Dental Industry.

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60 recent

September 28, 202636 min

Billy Madison Energy: Dissecting Chip’s Walmart-and-Recession Pitch

Nate and Bob open this episode of Just Say No to the DSO by dissecting a recent email from broker Chip Fitchner that treats Walmart’s quarterly numbers and the next recession as proof every dentist should sell to an IDSO immediately. With a mix of straight analysis and pointed humor, they walk through the fear-and-hype playbook—liquidity, “chips off the table,” and the promise of fewer headaches—and show why those talking points collapse under even modest scrutiny. The takeaway is the same one the show was built on: a well-run independent practice still beats handing over the golden goose to someone who profits from the panic.

September 4, 202652 min

The Fox in the Henhouse: Chip Fichtner, Fear, and Greed

Bob Speil and Nate Williams open with the starfish principle—one doctor who doesn’t sell is worth the whole podcast—then analogize DSO dealmaking to Big Tobacco: a fortune in getting people hooked, almost nothing in talking them out of it. They take a highlighter to Chip Fichtner’s LPS 2025 scorecard and “just reconnect” emails, knocking the 6.75–11x EBITDA headlines down to work-backs, minority equity, and a commission machine now waving BlackRock, yachts, recruiting teams, and AI as reasons to hand over the name on the door. The closer is the real question under the sales copy: when private equity and family offices own the cash flow, who still owns the patient’s care—and why the honest answer still starts with just saying no.

August 15, 202657 min

Two Sides of the Issue with Dr. Whitney Weiner

In this episode, Dr. Whitney Weiner shares her journey from private practice to joining ICON Dental Partners, discussing the motivations, challenges, and industry insights related to group dentistry and private equity involvement. We explore the nuances of practice ownership, valuation, and the impact of DSO models on dentists and the profession.

August 1, 202653 min

Clawing His Way Back Out with Dr. Brad Langley

This is a special Just Say No episode with a dentist who entered into a DSO and realized it was the wrong way forward for himself as his patients. Dr. Brad Langley recounts his tale of not only saying yes to a DSO but finally breaking free and finding new freedom after getting out. Here is a great quote from today's episode: "After spending years in a DSO, I realized the corporate grind was squeezing out the personal touch. I started feeling disconnected, especially when it came to valuing my team. The constant push for profit often overshadowed patient care and staff well-being."

July 27, 202656 min

Sticking To Your Principles with Dr. Stephanie Klasner

In this episode, Dr. Stephanie Klasner shares her journey through the dental industry, her experiences with DSO models, and her insights on ethical practice and ownership. Discover how she navigated challenges and found success by prioritizing relationships and integrity.

July 6, 202624 min

Tumbling Down In a Pile of Lawsuits with Dr Mike Davis

In this episode, Dr. Michael Davis discusses the pitfalls of DSO affiliations, legal settlements, and the importance of ethical practice in dentistry. He highlights recent cases like Aspen Dental's legal issues and offers advice for dentists considering partnerships.

July 3, 202651 min

Did We Mention a House of Cards? with Dr Mike Davis

This episode features Dr. Mike Davis discussing the complex financial restructuring of major DSOs like Dental Care Alliance and Affordable Care, revealing the risks for dentists and the industry. We explore the implications of private equity ownership, debt-for-equity swaps, and the future of dental practice investments.

June 18, 202632 min

A Listener Case Study on Selling Your Practice

As a dental professional, you may wonder about the implications of selling your practice to a DSO versus a private buyer. In this episode it's case study time as we delve into crucial insights on this topic, including tax considerations, the time value of money, and what it means for your practice.

June 3, 20261 hr 2 min

It All Starts Right Here with Dr. Brendan Gallagher

We've looked at serveral dentists deep into their careers and gone over how a DSO doesn't really make sense...what about the doctor with all of the promise in the world on the very front of his career...does a DSO make sense there? In this episode, Brendan Gallagher, an oral surgeon and podcaster, shares insights on the impact of DSOs on dentistry, the importance of practice ownership, and strategies for young dentists to maximize their careers and income potential.

May 12, 202625 min

Now, The DSO Will Make Your Equity...Disappear

This episode exposes the realities behind DSO equity and why selling to a DSO often results in less financial benefit than expected. There is a magic trick all DSOs are trying to pull...the magically disappearing equity. Nate and Bob dissect the myths, true principles, and risks associated with DSO deals, empowering dentists to make informed decisions about their practice futures.